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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Buchalish 111 Ring Mod PCBs
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author Buchalish 111 Ring Mod PCBs
fluxmonkey
UPDATE 8/30/18: back in stock...


UPDATE 9/13/13: First batch of boards are sold out, thanks everyone. may do a second run based on interest, and/or in support of another run of panels.


UPDATE 12/9: Boards are in and tested good, and are now available for purchase: go to http://www.fluxmonkey.com/fluxmerch.htm to order. thanks everyone for your patience


[UPDATE 11/26]: Boards have been ordered and are scheduled to arrive this week. After I do one more reference build, I will post ordering instructions.


[INITIAL POST] Gauging interest in PCBs for an all-discreet ring modulator, based on the Buchla 111 schematic and a DIY layout done by Romeo Fahl.

PCB is 2.5" x 3.8", soldermask and silkscreen. Price will be abt $15@, depending on interest. Please post a reply w/ number of boards you're interested in. NOT taking orders at this time, I will post ordering information if there's sufficient interest.

BOM:
Value Qty.
10r x2
10k x2
100k x2
1k5 x4
220r x2
2k2 x1
22k x1
330r x2
3k3 x5
33k x1
47r x3
680 r x6
6k8 x4

100n (.1uf) x1
2n2 (.0022uf) x2
4.7uf x2
5.6uf x2
10uf x1

1k trim pot x4
20k trim pot x1

2n3904 x7
2n3906 x3

ferrite bead
.100 power header
jacks x 4

original transistors: IT122 (matched NPN pair) x3; 2n3565 (NPN) x1; 2n4916 (PNP) x3

bbob
FetidEye
i'd like 1 board
Rod Serling Fan Club
So you figured out the trimming and have these fully operational? I'd probably take 4.

I would also be interested in doing a buchla format panel for these if people are interested. I could just do the original or make it as a double, which would be 4 ring mods but would still only take up about half the panel... I am open to ideas.
hexinverter
I'm down like a clown! This is fun!
mono-poly
I did a pcb design for this and waiting for pcb's i've orderd.
logicgate
I'd take one
thebot
I'd take 2 definitely, maybe more depending on price.
wwall
I'm up for two boards.
aladan
fluxmonkey wrote:
Gauging interest in PCBs for an all-discreet ring modulator, based on the Buchla 111 schematic and a DIY layout done by Romeo Fahl.

PCB is 2.5" x 3.8", soldermask and silkscreen. Price will be abt $15@, depending on interest. Please post a reply w/ number of boards you're interested in. NOT taking orders at this time, I will post ordering information if there's sufficient interest.

bbob


I'm interested in 2 please...
wavehead
Interested in 2 boards and one of RSFC's panels.
CJ Miller
Two boards for me. please!
ndkent
two
asterisk
id take 1.
rico loverde
IN FOR 1
djangosfire
Hell yes I'd take a few smile

Also, I have an original 111 Buchla Dual Ring Modulator module... so if there is a need for pics or info, just send me a PM.

Guinness ftw!

NOW someone build the 196 Phase Shifter, and we can all do some killer frequency shifting patch madness 8_)
FrankV
I'd be up for two!
MechaSeb
Up for two please !
diophantine
Are these PCBs a single RM (i.e. 1/2 of a 111), or two?

If single RMs, I'll take 4 - otherwise 2! (For 4 RMs total)

Thx!
MechaSeb
mono-poly wrote:
I did a pcb design for this and waiting for pcb's i've orderd.


Did you redraw the exact original pcb ? Any hard to find parts on this one ?
fluxmonkey
prototype:

janvanvolt
Two are fine for me.
bsmith
2 here!
raisinbag
So is it using 3904 and 3906's? I'd grab one then. I don't think I have built anything other than guitar pedals that use no ic's. Cool!
mikecameron
one for me!
boothnavy
sure, a couple.
rowman
Couple yeah
PF
Im in, 1 if its a double (like 111) or 2 if single board.
jooks
PF wrote:
Im in, 1 if its a double (like 111) or 2 if single board.


Same for me!
regularjackson
jooks wrote:
PF wrote:
Im in, 1 if its a double (like 111) or 2 if single board.


Same for me!


ditto
Roycie Roller
mono-poly wrote:
I did a pcb design for this and waiting for pcb's i've orderd.



when are u doing the 144 & 158 hyper
Dego
regularjackson wrote:
jooks wrote:
PF wrote:
Im in, 1 if its a double (like 111) or 2 if single board.


Same for me!


ditto


As for me nanners
Pfurmel
Interested in a few, depending on what RSFC comes up with panel-wise, I'll take enough for one panel.
brother303
Hi,

one here please.

thumbs up
lms.ktp
Dego wrote:
regularjackson wrote:
jooks wrote:
PF wrote:
Im in, 1 if its a double (like 111) or 2 if single board.


Same for me!


ditto


As for me nanners


That's it!
negativspace
I'd be in for a couple. thumbs up
machum
One for me please
fluxmonkey
added BOM
themanthatwasused
Hi
Interested in two.
thanks
harvey
nickster
Hi Interested in 2. Will this run on 12v? thumbs up
frozenkore
I'm in for 2 w/RSFC panel and perhaps 2 more for euro. Will work fine on 12V?
vtl5c3
Looks nice! How does it sound?

fluxmonkey wrote:
prototype:

Votek_Mendo
I,m in for 2 as well
zoot horn rollo
lms.ktp wrote:
Dego wrote:
regularjackson wrote:
jooks wrote:
PF wrote:
Im in, 1 if its a double (like 111) or 2 if single board.


Same for me!


ditto


As for me nanners


That's it!


+1
valis
Four please.
iopop
Most likely two.
Pcp
I'm in for at least two
Rod Serling Fan Club


Just keep it like the original for buchla format panels?
djangosfire
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:


Just keep it like the original for buchla format panels?


Yes please smile
MechaSeb
djangosfire wrote:
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:


Just keep it like the original for buchla format panels?


Yes please smile


+1 thumbs up
jooks
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:


Just keep it like the original for buchla format panels?

Yes applause
lms.ktp
Panel looks great!!
diophantine
djangosfire wrote:
Also, I have an original 111 Buchla Dual Ring Modulator module... so if there is a need for pics or info, just send me a PM.

Hey, I'd be curious to know about those holes in the front centre of the panel... are they just mounting holes for the PCBs, or are there trimpots behind those holes??
djangosfire
diophantine wrote:
djangosfire wrote:
Also, I have an original 111 Buchla Dual Ring Modulator module... so if there is a need for pics or info, just send me a PM.

Hey, I'd be curious to know about those holes in the front centre of the panel... are they just mounting holes for the PCBs, or are there trimpots behind those holes??


Trim pots for adjustments....... not sure exactly what parameter though ..... I'll look into it!
monokinetic
Please put me down for 1. Thanks.
303monkey
Dego wrote:
regularjackson wrote:
jooks wrote:
PF wrote:
Im in, 1 if its a double (like 111) or 2 if single board.


Same for me!


ditto


As for me nanners


ditto
vgermuse
I'm in for two thumbs up
keninverse
2 for me please.
e-grad
I shouldn't do it, but two for me, please.
MechaSeb
what about adding "CBS Musical Instruments" on bottom ? As it doesn't directly refer to "Buchla & Associates" i think it'd be ok, innit ?
Rod Serling Fan Club
MechaSeb wrote:
what about adding "CBS Musical Instruments" on bottom ? As it doesn't directly refer to "Buchla & Associates" i think it'd be ok, innit ?


I'm sure CBS doesn't care much about some small batch of panels for DIY. It does strike me as a bit disingenuous though. It reminds me of re-badging a car or something. Anyone who knows enough about Buchla to care, will know they aren't originals anyway. Am I wrong?
HueMonContact
Put me down for 2 The panels look cool Rod!
ChrisR
djangosfire wrote:
diophantine wrote:
Hey, I'd be curious to know about those holes in the front centre of the panel... are they just mounting holes for the PCBs, or are there trimpots behind those holes??


Trim pots for adjustments....... not sure exactly what parameter though ..... I'll look into it!

According to the schematic there are five trimpots for *each* of the two ringmods, but only four holes on the whole panel.
Would be interesting to know which ones are accessible through the panel, and maybe even why. smile

Also, what is the difference between the two signal outputs per channel? Is there any?
The bases of Q9 & Q10 are fed slightly different signals it seems?
seriously, i just don't get it
harolddonnelly
I'd be into a couple is they run on 12 volts
bennybones
Want one!
decaying.sine
I am interested in four PCBs.
glitchpop
Looks like power is +15V. Does that mean it won't work on +12V -12V?
camelneck
I'm interested in 2 PCBs.
valis
Is the IT122 the same as TIP122? Both look like NPNs. Just checking..

http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/120416.pdf

Thanks.

Let us know when ordering time is here!
Dego
IT122 is more like a mat02, lm394, ssm2210 or mat12
valis
Ah. So the IT122 is already a matched transistor pair?
Dego
valis wrote:
Ah. So the IT122 is already a matched transistor pair?


Yes, but very rare and expensive
Peake
The ring modulator in the Buchla 285 Frequency Shifter has four adjustments, none of them labelled. From the schematics. Sorry, can't help :(
fluxmonkey
it appears there is interest hihi , so a run will happen.

i've cleaned up the PCB layout a bit, so i want to do one more proto run to make sure i didn't mess anything up when i fixed it. should take about 10 days to get them back and built; then i'll order the production batch. i do not take preorders; i will post to this thread (with an updated title) with full ordering info when they are available.

my experience w/ the trimmers is that they are not critical settings: for a couple of them at extreme settings you start getting some distortion, but there's a pretty wide range in the middle where they seem to make very little audible difference. the boards are 2.5" x 3.8"; eyeballing the proposed buchla panel layout, you might be able to mount 2 boards parallel to the panel and add holes to allow front-panel adjustment of some or all of the trimmers, but i really don't think it'd be worth it, personally.

the 2 outputs appear to be 180deg out of synch w/ each other, other than that, they sound about the same. if you mix them both together they cancel each other out.

i do not have a 12v supply handy so i haven't tried that; caveat emptor, but i expect it would work... might lose a little headroom, but w/ buchla levels that shouldn't matter.

thanks everyone for you interest!

bbob
camelneck
djangosfire wrote:
Hell yes I'd take a few smile

Also, I have an original 111 Buchla Dual Ring Modulator module... so if there is a need for pics or info, just send me a PM.

Guinness ftw!

NOW someone build the 196 Phase Shifter, and we can all do some killer frequency shifting patch madness 8_)


I totally agree with you I saw your Youtube video where you (djangosfire) used a Buchla 111, a Buchla 196, & a Buchla 158 to make a frequency shifter and the result sounded awesome! Very impressive!

Since the 196 preseves a 90 degree phase shift throughout the audio frequency range, its rather obvious that the Buchla 196 contains a dome filter. I've never seen a Buchla 196 schematic so I don't know if it is just a dome filter or if there is additional circuitry in it. Ken Stone use to sell a dome filter PCB, but I'm sure it would require some additional circuitry and other modifications to make the equivalent of a Buchla 196. (BTW, Ken's website says he doesn't sell the dome filter pcbs anymore.)

I'd love to see a schematic. Does somebody have a copy of the Buchla 196 schematic that they would be willing to post?
mckenic
fluxmonkey wrote:

i do not have a 12v supply handy so i haven't tried that; caveat emptor, but i expect it would work... might lose a little headroom, but that shouldn't matter.


Watching this with interest as the Euro chaps take the plunge and hopefully give the all clear - then I can jump!
fluxmonkey
mckenic wrote:
Watching this with interest as the Euro chaps take the plunge and hopefully give the all clear - then I can jump!


remember that buchla uses different audio levels than doepfer; you will need to attenuate signals going in, and boost going out, to interface w/ euro
fluxmonkey
dbl post...
raisinbag
So if we want to use for euro/ blacet purposes maybe a small perfboard amp for the way out would work? Can you recommend a little schematic that will boost for this purpose?
mckenic
Thank you! (didnt know that!)

thumbs up
fluxmonkey
i used ken stone's stompbox adapter when testing, worked a treat. current version has 3 makeup amps on the board, and the option to cut it down to just the 2 you'd need, to save space. i will add pass-thru pads so you can interconnect power, and maybe (optional) attenuator voltage dividers on the inputs.

if anybody else didn't realize that this was a buchla module, and wants to back out of the buy, please let me know so i can adjust the count.
Isaiah
I'm thinking this would be ideal for processing guitar and line-level signals.
Any reasons that it perhaps wouldn't suit this application?

I'm in for one, please, maybe more...
raisinbag
I don't want to bail, no way! I just want. To use the opportunity to add a usefull attn/ amp to make this usefull for my purposes. Do you think just a 100k pot feeding some signal to grd to Attn the input signal would work? What about this ditty as an amp for way out https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71645
I would just need a bit of help to choose the right components. This kind of thing should be easy enough to build on perf board quick.
bakedcircuit
if not too late, would def be down for two myself. thanks bbob!
ChrisR
fluxmonkey wrote:
my experience w/ the trimmers is that they are not critical settings: for a couple of them at extreme settings you start getting some distortion, but there's a pretty wide range in the middle where they seem to make very little audible difference.
[...]
the 2 outputs appear to be 180deg out of synch w/ each other, other than that, they sound about the same. if you mix them both together they cancel each other out.

Thanks, appreciated! thumbs up
mOBiTh
ah fuck it, 2 for me help
Isaiah
Are the dimensions and mounting hole positions on this PCB the same as your 194 PCB?
prscrptn
Please count me in for 2 boards/panels! thumbs up
303monkey
I'd like to increase my order to two boards pleasse.
rosch
it seems i've missed this. is it still possible to get in?
i'd like 2 boards
jze
I'll take 1 board.

thanks
jze
i too hope that i'm not too late. I'll take 1 board.

thanks
nihilist
Quote:
Im in, 1 if its a double (like 111) or 2 if single board.
valis
I'd like to boost my order from four to six please.
fluxmonkey
boards are in the house, i am doing one final reference build to QA... have had a bunch of gigs this weekend, so it probably will be a few more days before i'm done.

once they're verified, i'll put up an ordering web page on th fluxmonkey.com site, w/ a paypal shopping cart (if i can figure that damn thing out), and post a link here. when that goes up, it will be first come first served, so no need to post any more adds or changes here.

thanks everyone for your interest, patience, and support!

b
MechaSeb
Paid for two boards. thumbs up
fluxmonkey
sorry for any confusion: i am not yet ready to accept orders for these boards, please do not order at this time. i will post with instructions when i'm set up and ready to go. thanks to you all for your patience.

sincerely
bbob
fluxmonkey
final QA done, finally ready to take orders! First post updated w/ ordering instructions [go to http://www.fluxmonkey.com/fluxmerch.htm to purchase boards]. Thanks everyone for your patience and support!

bbob drake
freeyerheel
plus one for me please
raisinbag
Sweet! Taken care of business!
asterisk
ordered! looking forward to it.
do you have any sound samples of it?
djangosfire
Paid and ordered 4x - thanks bbob!!!

PS - cool and easy ordering we're not worthy
thebot
djangosfire wrote:
PS - cool and easy ordering we're not worthy


Definitely! Although a little too easy, the ring mods turned out to be a honey trap, 208 random voltage generators? Don't mind if I do.....

8_)
FrankV
thebot wrote:


Definitely! Although a little too easy, the ring mods turned out to be a honey trap, 208 random voltage generators? Don't mind if I do.....

8_)


Yeah, I did the same thing. A couple ring mods? Sure! A couple random voltage generators? Oh, why not!

nanners

Frank
PF
Paid for 2 x 111 and 2 x 208..... thumbs up
Funky40
paid for two 111.

bbob, please note that shipments to switzerland need to have in any case a declaration value on the outside ( CN22 sticker ).
otherwise i get a ticket charged ! no fun
forgot to mention that in my payment.
thanks
FetidEye
payed for 1 ringmod
i'm just going to try it for eurorack
fluxmonkey
everyone who's ordered:

i have all your boards packed up ready to go, but have been laid up all week w/ the flu and not able to handle the holiday lines at the post office. so everything will go out right after christmas... my apologies, and thanks for your patience.

if you haven't ordered, now would be a good time so i can include them in the first round

b
Votek_Mendo
Do you have the list of people who ordered and paid please.
Thanks!
MechaSeb
Hi Flux, nice to have some news.
Don't worry for the delay in dispatching and take care with the flu ! thumbs up
rosch
no worries at all, in the meantime i'll build some card houses with my backlog!
merry christmas and get better soon
raisinbag
Thanks for the update. No stress. Honestly with these tyPe of DIY pcb and group buys I never expect emidiate delivery and I have enough to keep me busy for tens of years. Have a great Christmas and get well.
fluxmonkey
all orders rec'd through 12/27 have shippped (US orders went out yesterday, non-US today). still plenty of boards left if you missed it.

thanks everyone for your patience, and support. happy soldering, and patching!

best
b
bsmith
Just got mine, thanks so much!
valis
Me too. They look great. Thanks!
MechaSeb
Nice ! Looking forward to receiving the boards.
Thanks again for making it happen Guinness ftw!
asterisk
got mine too, thanks!
MechaSeb
Well arrived on morning today.
Thanks
bsmith
Ok, just fired mine up running on 12v and I'm happy to report - yes this is most certainly ringmod! In 'what do these trims do?!' mode for sure - the 20k one seems to affect gain on 'in 2' - the others i'm not sure about - saw a little symmetry stuff going on poking around on one- but nonetheless... hell it's ringmod man, and it sounds great, and it sounds buchla-y!

Did want to ask about optional attenuated ins...

RA 22k x2 (optional input attenuators)
RB 1k x2 (optional input attenuators)

looks like we can have standing resistors on either side of a pad for ins there - how is this meant to be wired for attenuation?

Anyway very awesome, and in conjunction with the 208 random which I also finished earlier going to 2 258j's and into this thing it sounds like a tribble orgy up in here!
prscrptn
got mine, thanks bbob! thumbs up
fluxmonkey
bsmith wrote:
Did want to ask about optional attenuated ins...

RA 22k x2 (optional input attenuators)
RB 1k x2 (optional input attenuators)

looks like we can have standing resistors on either side of a pad for ins there - how is this meant to be wired for attenuation?


yep, that's an optional passive voltage divider for folks using this in conjunction w/ non-buchla modules. they'd need to drop the input signals, and then boost the output w/ a buffer amplifier--suggested values based on ken stone's stomp box adapter which is what i used in my testing. omit both pairs and use In1 and In2 for buchla (1.2v) levels.
bsmith
ohhhhhhhh.... ok so awesome stuck those resistors in there and moved the ins, using this with my generally +/-5vish signal outputting oscillators in my 12v euro rig this is sounding crispier and even mo' better - dig it.
If anyone gets any insight as to the trimmers and fun things to do with them love to hear - so far I'm toying with the idea of bringing the 20k one out as a pot on a panel...
Thanks again for making these available to us fluxmonkey!
rowman
Got mine is Australia, thanks heaps!
Funky40
got my Boards, much thanks !
FetidEye
mine is also in, great!
also good to hear 12v is working. i will also go for the eurorack ringmod!!
appliancide
Will non-Buchla signal levels be distorted if the input attenuators are not used?
appliancide
bsmith...can you describe the difference between the attenuated and unattenuated module?

I never realized that Buchla audio signals were line level (or close to it).
bsmith
heya appliancide - yeah I think it's a bit cleaner ring mod sound with the attenuated, and there is more usable play with the couple trimmers that I found to be useful. Been a couple weeks I've been using it and I think it's a lovely ringmod. Check out both though - I'm sure some may prefer the grittier non-attenuated - I've kind of found a middle ground I like with the help of that 20k trimmer.
Funky40
anybody built without mathching the transistors ?
is it really that much recommended to match ?
bsmith
I didn't match - but I did use consecutive ones from a reel....
FetidEye
the bom says 4x 10k, but on the pcb it says 2x 10k and 2x 10r

what should i use? or is it a typo?

and about matching the transistors:
can i buy matched pairs , or is it easy to match 'm myself?
i checked out this pdf: match but it would be great if someone can help me with this.. (i'm not so good with math)
breadboard pics anyone?


bom errors:
there are 4 x 1k5 (instead of 1) resistors on the pcb
missing: 10uf condensator
fluxmonkey
Project documentation and PCB component values are correct... i fixed the BOM on the first page of this thread.
FetidEye
ok smile

any tips on the matching?
hexinverter
FetidEye wrote:
ok smile

any tips on the matching?


That is a complex subject, but, Ian Fritz has a nice .PDF article on what I consider the easiest and best method of transistor matching. A search should turn it up smile

EDIT d'oh, the one you linked is the one that I am referring to.

There is no math needed really...it's just subtraction if I recall correctly. You don't have to fully understand his mathematical explanation there -- just skip to the important bits so you understand how to match them based on his guide thumbs up
rowman
The schematic says to use tantalum caps, any particular reason not to use electrolytics?
elmegil
fluxmonkey wrote:
bsmith wrote:
Did want to ask about optional attenuated ins...

RA 22k x2 (optional input attenuators)
RB 1k x2 (optional input attenuators)

looks like we can have standing resistors on either side of a pad for ins there - how is this meant to be wired for attenuation?


yep, that's an optional passive voltage divider for folks using this in conjunction w/ non-buchla modules. they'd need to drop the input signals, and then boost the output w/ a buffer amplifier--suggested values based on ken stone's stomp box adapter which is what i used in my testing. omit both pairs and use In1 and In2 for buchla (1.2v) levels.


I just got my board (THANKS!) but I don't really grok this.

I thought ring mod was for audio chain, not control chain, so why would 1.2V matter?

I'm using a 15V mostly MOTM format systems, mostly Thomas Henry modules.
appliancide
elmegil wrote:


I thought ring mod was for audio chain, not control chain, so why would 1.2V matter?

I'm using a 15V mostly MOTM format systems, mostly Thomas Henry modules.


That isn't a reference to the 1.2V/Oct standard of Buchla. Apparently the audio signals are about 1.2Vp-p, compared to the 10Vp-p signals used in most other systems.
elmegil
Ah, I was not aware of that. Thank you :-)
djangosfire
Hi guys -

I'm putting together a Mouser order for this 111 pcb.

I still get confused when it comes to capacitors . . . .

What voltage range should I be concerned with?

Looks like electrolytic is OK in place of the tantalum ??


Also, there appears to be 4x 1k trimmers?? And 1x 20k trimmer?? The BOM does not say.

Any help/tips greatly appreciated.

Thanks very much!!

- Adam
prscrptn
Pm'd
fluxmonkey
i always use electolytics rather than tant... works fine, but i can't give an informed opinion on if it sounds any different. for that matter, i've always used 4.7uf instead of the specified 5.6... again, seems to work fine.

and yes, sorry, the trimmers are missing from the BOM. as stated, you need four 1k and one 20k trimmers per board: 3299Y-1-102LF and 3299Y-1-203LF from mouser. i'll get the doc revised, my apologies.



djangosfire wrote:
Hi guys -

I'm putting together a Mouser order for this 111 pcb.

I still get confused when it comes to capacitors . . . .

What voltage range should I be concerned with?

Looks like electrolytic is OK in place of the tantalum ??


Also, there appears to be 4x 1k trimmers?? And 1x 20k trimmer?? The BOM does not say.

Any help/tips greatly appreciated.

Thanks very much!!

- Adam
raisinbag
Hey flux, just looking at your site and there seems to be a "link" to a frac fpd panel design, but it isn't activated. Can you shoot me a copy? I'm on a panel etching junkit this weekend. w00t just lookIng for some ideas for where to start this one.
fluxmonkey
sorry, that's a copy/paste fail. i never made a FPD panel for this one--mine's still sitting behind a piece of raw blank aluminum. 2 in, 2 out, how hard can it be?


raisinbag wrote:
Hey flux, just looking at your site and there seems to be a "link" to a frac fpd panel design, but it isn't activated. Can you shoot me a copy? I'm on a panel etching junkit this weekend. w00t just lookIng for some ideas for where to start this one.
raisinbag
hahhahahahaha ok 2in 2 out, I can ger artistic then. I think someone was using a pot for a trimmer, so I was kinda curious about that. I guess I can pop a hole in later if this is fun.

ok then off to play match maker with some trannys.
FetidEye
finished finally smile working on 12v
i use the RA and RB inputs
no panel yet .. and didn't use matched 3904's
(matching those is still out of my league)

sounds great!
thinking about bringing that 20k to the front..

what do those 1k trimmers do?
prscrptn
Having a problem and wonder if anyone can help... hmmm.....

My 111 has a low frequency hum around 180Hz which is present regardless of any signal on the input. This is the second unit that I've built and the first one had no issues.

I am using the same components/values and have checked all traces and adjusted trimmers. The problem is present on both boards and I have tested them independently, same issue...

Any thoughts?
fluxmonkey
backchannel you'd mentioned that you're using a new power supply... what kind? do you have the old supply available to swap in?
elmegil
So I also replied to your PM, but

1) I haven't actually built this circuit

2) I didn't remember you saying both boards, so each ring mod is a separate board? If so my advice in PM isn't worth much :-)

My speculation would be something wrong with the tantalum caps, but that's a total SWAG and I'd check flux's question about the Power Supply first.
prscrptn
I'm using a .COM PSU; I've metered it and everything appears to be in order.

I can not find any errors and the circuit works, but the hum is still present...
fluxmonkey
prscrptn wrote:
I'm using a .COM PSU; I've metered it and everything appears to be in orde


which one? QPS1 and QPS3 are linear, the others look like switching power supplies, which i've always been wary of. try adding a 10uf cap across the power line, right at the power connector
prscrptn
Hmmm...QPS4, i will try adding the cap, thanks! thumbs up
djangosfire
fluxmonkey wrote:
prscrptn wrote:
I'm using a .COM PSU; I've metered it and everything appears to be in orde


which one? QPS1 and QPS3 are linear, the others look like switching power supplies, which i've always been wary of. try adding a 10uf cap across the power line, right at the power connector


On the power EDAC? or ?

Thanks!
prscrptn
djangosfire wrote:
fluxmonkey wrote:
prscrptn wrote:
I'm using a .COM PSU; I've metered it and everything appears to be in orde


which one? QPS1 and QPS3 are linear, the others look like switching power supplies, which i've always been wary of. try adding a 10uf cap across the power line, right at the power connector


On the power EDAC? or ?

Thanks!


PSU and the EDAC are showing proper and steady voltage.

I tried adding a 10uF cap across power, but still no change. d'oh!
prscrptn
OK, so I may have figured out the problem...

I was sending the output into a mic input instead of line!

The low level hum is still present, but much more nominal (-52dB).

The sound was probably there before, but so low that I never noticed.
xi-bot
edit: off course the
RA 22k x2 (optional input attenuators)
RB 1k x2 (optional input attenuators)
are the trimmers
stupid me...
logicgate
I wonder what you guys have used instead of these??

IT122 (matched NPN pair) x3

2n4916 (PNP) x3


I don't know what to order, those are very expensive at ebay.

How crucial is to have matched transistors on a ring modulator?

Cheers Guinness ftw!


EDIT:

Nevermind, I checked fluxmonkey site and noticed that the BOM there says 2N3904 and 2N3906
logicgate
xi-bot wrote:
hi

i build the "Romeo Fahl" pcb version. so i wonder were do the four input attenuators belong ?
or are the RB pots output attenuators ?

RA 22k x2 (optional input attenuators)
RB 1k x2 (optional input attenuators)

thanks


HAve you brought the 20K trimmer to the panel? Do you think it's worth the extra step? I'm about to place an order at tayda, and still deciding about getting some 1k and 20K pot's for this. Did you notice any drastic change in the waveform when playing with these trimpots?
xi-bot
i used 2N3904 and 2N3906
and i was to impatient to match them
but the ringmod sounds nice

logicgate wrote:
I wonder what you guys have used instead of these??

IT122 (matched NPN pair) x3

2n4916 (PNP) x3


I don't know what to order, those are very expensive at ebay.

How crucial is to have matched transistors on a ring modulator?

Cheers Guinness ftw!


EDIT:

Nevermind, I checked fluxmonkey site and noticed that the BOM there says 2N3904 and 2N3906
nordlead
Finished my build today (using matched 3904 thanks to Ian Fritz, 12V, no calibration whatsoever yet, unattenuated). Here are some raw sounds with my Serge and a 555-VCO:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/r_c_hoffmann/111-ring-modulator-test[/s]

I wonder if I should bother to use the attenuated ins (not even shure how...), I (already) like the sound as is ...
fluxmonkey
first batch of PCBs are sold out, thanks everyone for your support!
negativspace
Thanks for the PCBs! w00t
LektroiD
Hope to see a second batch coming soon...

Anyone doing euro panels for this?
Isaiah
fluxmonkey
I just went to buy a pair of these and they are out of stock (I didn't check this thread first) d'oh!
Any chance of another run, please?

Are the to outputs 180 degrees out of phase with each other?
Isaiah
fluxmonkey
I just went to buy a pair of these and they are out of stock (I didn't check this thread first) d'oh!
Any chance of another run, please?

Are the to outputs 180 degrees out of phase with each other?
LektroiD
I built a home etched version of this one a couple of years ago for my 5U, would love another for my Eurorack, any chance of another run?
logicgate
Ok I wanted to start this build and tried to find a build doc for 12V, it seems it never happenned.

Anyways, from a couple of posts I could see it works fine in 12V without much adjustment, and there's the possibility to attenuate the ins - OK.

This is how it's done?




And then we need to amplify the output, ok. So we buffer the out in a piece of perfboard?


Thanks
elmegil
It's ridiculous, I know, but I also just recently finally started seriously looking at this to build it and....

... that don't look like no voltage divider to me smile.

I see an input that goes between a 1K to the main circuit and a 22K to ground and I seen an input that goes to the main circuit (the 100K to ground and the 4.7uF cap). If I use the second, I'm just using the unattenuated circuit, but if I use the first, I'm just adding a 1K between the input and the circuit, and an extra 22K to ground for who knows what reason....

Is there supposed to be a trace cut? I could sorta see that working, if you cut between the original input and the 100K and run the attenuator "input" to that 100K, using the original input as your actual input. That puts a voltage divider there, but it's only a 22/23 reduction so that doesn't make sense to me either.

What am I missing? hmmm.....
elmegil
Ok, I'm going to try something different.

1) use the alternate inputs
2) omit Ra
3) set Rb to 33K
4) set the 100K input resistor from the original circuit to 10K

At that point I have a voltage divider that should drop 10Vpp to 2.4Vpp.

Simulation makes it appear like it should work.....
ym2612
Edit: found a 111. Thanks to all who PMed me.
prscrptn
^ I've got a panel and pcb's available if anyone needs...
fluxmonkey
I have a new (small) batch available, http://www.fluxmonkey.com/fluxmerch_gear.htm ...
APETECHNOLOGY
hold the press!
theres a error in the schematic !
i have the rare opportunity to study a massive 3 panel 100,
i am trying to hunt down unknown errors in the schematics .
found one,
the input 2 resistor is 680 in the schematic, 680k in the original! CBS got us again.
i will post any other discrepancies i find here.
fluxmonkey
Outstanding! and what a great opportunity to get up-close and personal w/ one of the original systems. I'll do some testing to see what difference the change makes, and update information accordingly.
elmegil
Is that true for the 680 over on the input 1 side as well?

My copy of the schematic is a lot blurrier than yours smile
Fernando
any update about the 680k being correct?

once or twice in the schematic?
fluxmonkey
I'm posting errata to my pages as I get 'em: http://fluxmonkey.com/historicBuchla/111-ringmod.htm. Here's the resistor in question:



note: I did a test, swapping in the new value on one of the two PCBs on my dual build. Audible difference of the new value was minimal (I doubt I could have distinguished in a blind test), but I will change the PCB legend the next time I do a run.

Fernando wrote:
once or twice in the schematic?

These are R27 and R78 on the schematic; since my board is a single ringmod, it's only resistor to change (per board).
Fernando
ok, thank you Bbob
fluxmonkey
Big shoutout to Mike Peake for pointing out an error on my Buchla RingMod boards... one of the resistors marked 10r should in fact be 10k. I and others have successfully built these with the marked values, but trimming will be easier with the correction. I've updated the build page with errata and pics. Thanks, Mike!

This and all my other Buchla clone PCBs (110 Voltage Controlled Gate, 111 Ring Modulator, 160 Noise, 180 Attack Generator, 194 Bandpass Filter, and the Random Voltage Generator from the 208) are still available cheap for true DIY heads.

and I'm always expanding the documentation section of the historic buchla (100/200 series) pages, with more schematics and notes. Please let me know if you have other information to share!

happy wiggling!
Peake
You can never tell if the schematics are correct, glad this makes a positive difference! A little bit deeper into the machine...

Fluxmonkey PCBs are awesome for mixing and matching 100 System functions to make use of otherwise mostly blank 1U panels, such as a module mixing a 194 and a dual 110, for example. There's panel art in this forum for Lazertran water slide decals you can mix and match and bake for yourself.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2671917

Below: Using Fluxmonkey 208 Random and 160 Noise PCBs on a single panel:



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