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Looping the Buchla
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Looping the Buchla
vgermuse
Weinglas wrote in this thread
Quote:
Please show (and much more important teach) us how you use the looper together with the Buchla.

So. . . here is a a brief and basic intro to how I personally use a looper pedal with my Buchla. To keep things simple I am just using a Buchla 259e oscillator, a Boss RC-20 Loop Station pedal, and a very cheap videocam mixer. I hope this helps explain my process. Questions, comments and feedback appreciated.

other short examples of looping here and a looped concert here. w00t
weinglas
That was very helpful Todd. Thank you!

Two more questions:
Does the RC20 start to record with the foot switch or with a threshold level?
Does it crossfade at the loop point?

I tried the EHX2880. And while i liked it a lot as multitrack recorder, the looper was not impressive at all when used with drones.
vgermuse
weinglas wrote:
That was very helpful Todd. Thank you!

Two more questions:
Does the RC20 start to record with the foot switch or with a threshold level?
Does it crossfade at the loop point?

I tried the EHX2880. And while i liked it a lot as multitrack recorder, the looper was not impressive at all when used with drones.


Hi Weinglas, glad it helped. The RC20 starts with a footswitch not threshold.
No crossfade loop. Crossfading drones is tricky especially fit there is any filter sweeping going on. I usually build up a drone by fading in the first loop then out-jogging the overdub with the same "drone". Reverb often helps mask any
anomalies in the loop in and out. all best wishes and thanks! Todd
7thDanSound
Todd this is extremely helpful! Thanks a ton for posting. I've been thinking a lot about using loopers with the Buchla and this helped me understand a bit about how to do it.

Ideally I would like a looper where I could either cut tracks out or where it had a feedback of less than one, so old loops slowly faded out. Are there any such devices? That way I could sort of let the whole thing evolve by itself a little.
vgermuse
7thDanSound wrote:

Ideally I would like a looper where I could either cut tracks out or where it had a feedback of less than one, so old loops slowly faded out. Are there any such devices? That way I could sort of let the whole thing evolve by itself a little.


Hi Niklas, yes my main looper is the Boss RC-50. It can have up to 3 separate loops going simultanously and either synced together or independent lengths.
Each loop can be programmed to fade out individually too. I'm sure there are even more sophisticated one's out on the market, but that is the one I know. best, Todd
djangosfire
Really awesome stuff Todd smile

Niklas, did you ever see Tobor's EH Buchla Looping vid? Pretty awesome too.... I hope it's OK to add it to this Buchla Looping thread we're not worthy

vgermuse
djangosfire wrote:
Really awesome stuff Todd smile

Niklas, did you ever see Tobor's EH Buchla Looping vid? Pretty awesome too.... I hope it's OK to add it to this Buchla Looping thread we're not worthy


Hey Adam, Yes! Thank you for adding Giorgio's classic, supreme video! Inspiration for us all. best, Todd
exeterdown
Love this stuff.

I've used a Kaoss Pad 3 to do this kind of thing as well. I'm way more into rhythmic stuff and the KP3 is MIDI syncable.

It's got four separate loops which you can then apply effects to and infinitely bounce the tracks back and forward to one another adding more effects and more live recording on the fly.

Plus, you can take the synced loop and slice it into 8 parts, then turn on and off any of the slices to create poly rhythms.

And the loop playback speed is linked to the MIDI clock so you can record something at 180bpm, then slow it down to 90 and record a double speed take over the top an octave higher.

Should make a demo of this if anyone is keen?
7thDanSound
Thanks Todd, Exeter and Adam for tips on loopers and looping! I'll be researching pedals today for sure!
weinglas
I have tried the KP3 and the EHX2880. Both are Midi syncable, which worked great with a Doepfer MAQ as master. If my memory does not fail, the 2880 needs a MIDI start command.

While the KP3 only allows you short loops, the 2880 can record until the card is full. The KP3 can store up to 100 Samples on its card, the 2880 needs a card for every four loops, so if you want to play with recorded samples on the 2880 you have to play the DJ. What i did not like on the 2880 was that all samples have to be of the same length. There is no way to record a long drone and a short repeated drum- or bassloop. I do not know if this also is true for the KP3, but because of the short loops there it does not matter.

Great on both is the ability to mix the 4 looped tracks or to resample them like on an old multitrack tape.

In the end i sold my 2880 and regret it a bit cause it was the easiest to use multitrack recorder that i know. The KP3 stayed. But more because of the FX. That one can drive you crazy if you think how good it might have been, if Korg just added a few more bugfixing/features. E.g. it has a lot of drumloops that are editable by the touchscreen. But they do not sync to the clock very frustrating

And now, years later, i am still looking.
Badr0b0t
Tobor's Video inspired me to go out and get an EHX 2880 and a T-Resonator and play around. I had loads of fun. Eventually I found it easier to do my looping inside of Ableton Live and use software FX. Looping is how I built some of my personal favorite soundscapes with my Buchla 200e and very few modules. It's essentially the same principle as shown in this video. Record a first pass then overdub on it. I also like to use different FX on each successive pass. Tweaking the FX on each loop and re-recording again so that the loop is barely recognizable. Hours and hours of good times. thumbs up

Tracks such as this one I created with looping.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/ronmillar/dark-nebula[/s]
wyrtti
Thank you for this, Todd!

I too have been thinking about looping and now I regret selling my rc-20 a few years ago. Oh well...never could really fathom it then. This, on the other hand seemed perfect for my uses.

And Niklas, if you want a looper that fades the old tracks slowly, get an Eventide rack box. Certain models have about 87 seconds of delay, and you can set the feedback/fadeout nicely. Robert Fripp uses this in his Frippertronics, he says it feels more organic as the older passes slowly erode away. smile

And no, that's not the cheap way to go, but I had to throw in this idea, since you Buchla users are used to buying quality stuff which costs a bit. smile

(I am hoping to finally join the ranks in a few weeks.)

And Badrobot, I so love that piece. I have it burned to cd for listening to on the stereo.

Cheers!
It's motherfucking bacon yo
solaris
weinglas wrote:
What i did not like on the 2880 was that all samples have to be of the same length. There is no way to record a long drone and a short repeated drum- or bassloop.


really really?
it's not possible to have two (or more) loops of arbitrary (different) lenght?
on a $600 or something four-tracks looper?
or am I missing its purpose and taking it for something it is NOT?
7thDanSound
Oh yeah, using delays for looping is an option, that's right. I should try using my Kurzweil Mangler and see if that works. I don't know if it has sufficient sampling time available though. I did do this with my MonoMachine set to low tempo and long delay time but the quality degraded a lot so the output was very bitcrushed. I really liked having 20s plus loops slowly fading out on me though...

Thanks for tips and inspiration all!
modulator_esp
Two really useful devices for ambient looping are the Boss DD-20 Giga Delay, which can do up to 23 seconds of seamless stereo looping using the delay, with feedback control over how long loops take to fade away, or the Electrix Repeater that can do 4 mono or 2 stereo loops, with time dependent on CF card size, also with feedback control over loop decay and seamless record into overdub.

Neither can really do simultaneous loops of different lengths properly, although with the DD-20 you can have 2 loop lengths setup and switch from one to the next, with the original loop decaying or not depending on its feedback setting.

On the Repeater you can multiply loops to get a long loop overdubbed onto multiple short loops, but I never found much use for that

To get totally separate simultaneous loops of separate lengths I think you'd need to get a Looperlative LP-1 (quite expensive), or multiple DD-20s, which was what I did smile

The Repeater is great because you can have really long loops if you want, loops have their own fader for mixing, individual loops can be pitch-shifted, it does time-stretch and loops can be individually reversed. It also slaves to midi if you need that sort of thing (and lots of other cool stuff)

The DD-20 is a lot simpler, but can be very effective, I particularly like looping using the panning delay smile

My track on the Synthi Group Volume 3 was a live loop improv using Putney, Repeater and DD-20 (for delay)
pustule
weinglas wrote:

it's not possible to have two (or more) loops of arbitrary (different) lenght?


Yes, that is correct -- thats the one thing that bums me out about this looper, but I really do like it even with that flaw. Another thing I like is that you can change the pitch of it on the fly, pretty fun to slow stuff down really slooooooooow.
dkcg
solaris wrote:
weinglas wrote:
What i did not like on the 2880 was that all samples have to be of the same length. There is no way to record a long drone and a short repeated drum- or bassloop.


really really?
it's not possible to have two (or more) loops of arbitrary (different) lenght?
on a $600 or something four-tracks looper?
or am I missing its purpose and taking it for something it is NOT?


The octatrack looper machines could do this. Not the most feature heavy looper, no undos (a huge minus for me), but good enough for "polyrhythmic" loops of varying lengths. I slave its midi clock to the echoplex pro which is still my favorite looper. I usually start with it, then send the midi clock into the Buchla, then everything stays synced including the Ot which can be used for 8 additional loops.
vgermuse
Badr0b0t wrote:
I also like to use different FX on each successive pass. Tweaking the FX on each loop and re-recording again so that the loop is barely recognizable. Hours and hours of good times. thumbs up.

Tracks such as this one I created with looping.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/ronmillar/dark-nebula[/s]


Wonderful track applause and cool idea about using different fx for subsequent overdubs thumbs up
xart
modulator_esp wrote:
Two really useful devices for ambient looping are the Boss DD-20 Giga Delay, which can do up to 23 seconds of seamless stereo looping using the delay


Does this thing do line level or just guitar level input?
Badr0b0t
vgermuse wrote:
Badr0b0t wrote:
I also like to use different FX on each successive pass. Tweaking the FX on each loop and re-recording again so that the loop is barely recognizable. Hours and hours of good times. thumbs up.

Tracks such as this one I created with looping.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/ronmillar/dark-nebula[/s]


Wonderful track applause and cool idea about using different fx for subsequent overdubs thumbs up


Thanks. I need to make a little video of my own to show how I do it...
vgermuse
[quote="Badr0b0t"]
Badr0b0t wrote:

Thanks. I need to make a little video of my own to show how I do it...


That would be awesome! w00t
subterryanean
For you folks who want different length loops, check out the Boomerang 3 looper, it's about the same price as the 2880 but with a different feature set.

http://www.boomerangmusic.com/E156.shtml

exeterdown
Sorry this took so long - if anyone's curious...

Kaoss Pad 3 for looping audio and some MIDI control including a kind of MIDI/CV recorder...

https://vimeo.com/54178561

https://vimeo.com/54178562

(couldn't get the embed thing to work) seriously, i just don't get it
jbaptiste64
exeterdown wrote:
Sorry this took so long - if anyone's curious...

Kaoss Pad 3 for looping audio and some MIDI control including a kind of MIDI/CV recorder...

https://vimeo.com/54178561

https://vimeo.com/54178562

(couldn't get the embed thing to work) seriously, i just don't get it


Thanks for demos, I want to add a kaoss pad 3 to my buchla, how do you find the quality of the effects? thanks
exeterdown
jbaptiste64
The effects aren't as nice as Eventide or Strymon stomp boxes. Lots of wacky "DJ" stuff in there. But if you can pick one up cheap, its worth having a play with the flexibility of the loop function.
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