Muff's Modules & More

[LDT]

... is driven nuts by the lack of attenuation?
I have just spent my first couple of hours "quality time" with the QMMG, and first of all, let me say that it sounds absolutely great.

But guys, does any of your oscillators have attenuators on their outputs? No? That´s what I thought. And we tend to put vco´s in filters don´t we? And what happens if you put an unattenuated vco into the QMMG? You get a very nice overdriven sound. On my other filters, if I want the clean sound, I turn down the input attenuation. Blablabla, yes I am stating the obvious here and, yes I have at the moment four passive attenuators that I can use, but dammit I have to use them ALL THE TIME now as the QMMG don´t even have attenuation on the cv inputs. (You can however use one of the channels in vca mode to attenuate an incoming cv on another channel).

Of course nobody ever said that it had attenuators. I just have to admit that it is only after actually working with it that it really got under my skin just how annoying that is.

And sorry, but one more party-killer: That huge *THUD* when you switch mode. I always thought that switches were great for performance oriented work, but switching from "both" to LP seems to be a no-no on a big sound system.

What breaks my heart is that it sounds so good

[wetterberg]

yes, you ABSOLUTELY need to have attenuators for it - as a VCA you don't really need it, imo, but for the other modes, absolutely.

A quad attenuator near the QMMG is a really good idea

[felix]

I wouldn't say I'm bothered by it, but I do wish it had attenuators on the inputs, although for me I want them on the various CV inputs. But I generally want that on all modules.

Maybe this is why the line is drawn. It's obviously an already large module, and large modules have a hard time selling in Euro, so adding attenuators for each input (at the least for audio and gate level) would add at least 8HP, likely more. And it would ruin the lovely symmetry of the module.

*And* there's always the argument that static input attenuators don't add anything when you want to vary the amount of input via voltage control. You'd still have to have another VCA.

FWIW, I usually end up using one channel of the QMMG as an attenuator of signal for some other channel of the QMMG. The normalization and gate modes almost beg for that to be done. But, if you're mixing 4 signals together, you're out of luck there.

In terms of the audio ins being sensitive (overdriven with non-attenuated inputs), get in touch with Tony, there might be a way to calibrate it so that it's less overdriven.

[dougcl]

Never once thought it needed anything. I use it as a pair of two-channel LPGs as suggested by Tony. First channel is LP, second is BOTH. Typically ADSR-VC2 is driving it, so I can back off the decay or increase the attack to get whatever depth of modulation I'm after. Recently I did discover how well the output attenuation on the M10 works with the QMMG though.

[felix]

[NV]

Just to play devil's advocate I think there's room for four passive attenuators on the QMMG faceplate, although that would mean choosing between the audio or the CV inputs which would ultimately please some of the users and annoy the rest. A solution to that would be to add a small switch beside the pot to switch the attenuator between the inputs. I think a configuration like that could fit on the faceplate and would be simple to integrate circuitry-wise, but it would require a panel and PCB redesign which is hardly something most designers crave doing and can end up becoming an expensive endeavor.

From the other perspective however, every system could use more free-floating attenuators in my opinion - nearly every input and output out there could use an attenuator, and maybe 1 in 20 actually have them. The merits of integrated vs. isolated attenuators is a topic in itself though, so I won't drag it in here.

Passive attenuators are so cheap and easy to build that I think it's something every modular owner should try DIYing at least once. It's DIY at its easiest and you can comfortably fit 2 on a 4HP panel, 4 on an 8HP panel, or 6 on a 10HP panel for about $10-$15 if you're crafty, or go for broke and mash 20 on a 1U panel.

[revmutt]

just took a joy ride with the bastard for the first time. I patched up something simple with a bunch of LFO's, a pair of modulating AFGs, a Plague Bearer and had the whole thing clocked to a Binary Zone.

Can you say delicious?
-no with a German accent!

The shit was growling, mellow, cool and smooth with no additional attenuation. Mind you I didn't do any kind of fully feeding back shit with it but it was very easily controlled.

[blungo2]

I'm just learning about modular synthesis, so for my very basic patches i only occasionally need to use attenuation. Not so much to get a clean signal, but more to balance the mix level to the QMMG.

[revmutt]

Having only just bought this unit, can anyone verify whether switching modes on the current model is a bit noisey?

Even using a single channel, I find the click to be rather loud.

[blungo2]

^
I'm not amplifying mine very loudly, but the click is not too bad with mine.

[revmutt]

I just looked and I hadn't attenuated up for the lower sound source. As soon as I lowered the volume on the monitors and switched input sources all was good.

Doh!

[incekt]

what oscillators are you running into the qmmg? afg straight through the qmmg vca turned all the way up and there is no distortion on the oscilloscope...

[REwire]

I think the QMMG was created to be the first full Euro version of Buchla 292's 4 LP Gates (model 13 being half that). The adding of HP and Resonance was to spice it up make it more useful as a multifilter, but the first intention of it being 4 VCA's is why it doesn't have attenuators, as most VCA's don't. They attenuate the output but not the input.

The 292 and other VCA's are usually used after mixers and filters so it's easy to scale volumes before they get to them. If you are going raw osc to the QMMG and getting distortion I bet the same would happen if you went right into other VCA's. As I use mixers for all my oscs, they are all balanced before going to attenuated and unattenuated filters and then to the QMMG.

As for attenuators, the Model 36 leveler is great and soon the Doepfer A-182 and 83 will be out. Attenuators on PWM are the most missing thing I find annoying (even new Macbeth Osc doesn't, as for M15 and Asys RS-95's, all my fav oscs).

[Reptil]

I get the point, but..
OMG guys, we're into modules. respectfully, just get an attennuator module. (a-183-1 ??)
why does everything have to be inside ONE module? I don't get that.
ok, space requirements etc. but having everything prepatched limits flexibillity.

[LDT]

[LDT]

[LDT]

[Robba]

Sometimes I hear the loud thud. No allways, my guess is that it depends on the signal going through.

[LDT]

[wetterberg]

mine thuds, too - but I do my switching before feeding audio through, most times.
/goes back to drawing up attenuator panels.