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Incoming: RPSU and HVM
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Oakley Sound Systems  
Author Incoming: RPSU and HVM
Synthbuilder
Just a quick heads up before any official announcement. The Human Voice Module (HVM) and rack power supply (RPSU) PCBs are now available to purchase. However, I haven't done photos, sound samples or the documentation yet.

But if you trust me and want to purchase one of the limited run of first issue boards, or just want to know more, then go here:

http://www.oakleysound.com/hvm.htm & http://www.oakleysound.com/rpsu.htm

Tony
Paradigm X
Wow. The hvm looks absolutely what i was hoping for. All the extra controls on headers look amazing.

cant wait to read about and build this thing. something obvious im hoping is possible so will need to wait and see.

ive actually got the deep equinoxe in a 2u rack so could potentially use the spare space ive got to house the hvm and se1 in one 70s case.....

Rockin' Banana!
terjewinther
As I have both the Korg Delta and the Roland VP-330, I probably don´t need this. But then, it is so tempting! Could leave the heavy keyboards at home and just bring a cheesy lightweight string machine and this card. Very tempting! Have you done any A/B testing with the originals? Also, what kind of delay lines are used?
pulse_divider
The Delta is one of the lightest weight string machines I can think of!
Even the tiny Elka 490 Rhapsody is heavier.
But yeah, that sounds like it would be a sweet FX box. I'm trying to come up with some cash to build the HVM and might do something similar.
terjewinther
Lambda, not the Delta. My mistake. The HVM module is based on the Lambda, which is a heavy keyboard. I have both the Lambda and the Delta, so no wonder I am confused.
Synthbuilder
terjewinther wrote:
Have you done any A/B testing with the originals?

With the VP-330 only with recordings and a sample set that Norman Fay did years ago. With the Lambda, yes.

But both the Roland and Korg use different methods to generate their source waves so I'd expect some differences. The Roland uses a single set of divide down ramp generators and then passes them, post filtering, through a quad ensemble. The Korg has no ensemble (actually it does, but it's overkill when used on the chorus preset) but uses instead three sets of divide down ramp generators. For my samples I used the raw sawtooth output of my JP-6 but any sawtooth would do.

terjewinther wrote:
Also, what kind of delay lines are used?

There is no BBDs used in the HVM. This is a filter network only. It could be used with a standard ensemble pedal or external FX box if using a single sawtooth - which is what I did for the first set of samples. Or you could use the output of an existing string machine, such as the Delta or Solina.

There will be an Oakley quad ensemble unit later this season called the SE-1. More news on that when it's nearer the completion date.

Tony
Paradigm X
So, are the bandpass filters centre frequenecies twiddleable? I see theyre not on headers, but my simple brain thinks it might be possible to adjust if i replace resistors with pots?

Ideally, im after a 'vocal filter', a la jim patchell etc, or similar. Im guessing the lambda/v330 are fixed bands to 'accurately' replicate the desired frequency response?

Either way, grabbing.

Cheers, best
Ben
terjewinther
Thanks Tony, this makes sense to me.
If the SE-1 is mono-to-stereo, it will be perfect.
...and in the general idea of down-sizing my live rig, it seems to fit nicely in. An order is coming.
Synthbuilder
Paradigm X wrote:
So, are the bandpass filters centre frequenecies twiddleable? I see theyre not on headers, but my simple brain thinks it might be possible to adjust if i replace resistors with pots?

Not twiddleable I'm afraid. The network filter banks are direct clones of the originals. To make them adjustable would need a four gang pot for each of the seven resonators.

Paradigm X wrote:
Ideally, im after a 'vocal filter', a la jim patchell etc,

Alas, it's not going to do that. Not in the morphing ee-ooh-ahh sort of way. Maybe one of these days I'll do something that will. But for now the easiest way to do this is on a computer. Vaz modular has a nice one.

Tony
numbertalk
Very excited about the HVM. 2 questions:

1) I could see wanting this as a rack or stand-alone unit. Any thoughts on how I could wire up a power supply to be able to connect this to mains? I know it would be possible, JH use to do it for some of his circuits and I've built many of them this way. Anyone know of any stand-alone board that are available I could put in front of this circuit?

2) What level signal is it expecting, for "optimal" sound? Will it sound just as good on the output of my Minimoog or Juno as it would with a 10vp-p VCO from my modular?

Thanks!
Synthbuilder
numbertalk wrote:
I could see wanting this as a rack or stand-alone unit. Any thoughts on how I could wire up a power supply to be able to connect this to mains? I know it would be possible, JH use to do it for some of his circuits and I've built many of them this way. Anyone know of any stand-alone board that are available I could put in front of this circuit?

The HVM is designed to be used as a standalone project. I would anticipate most users will put theirs into a 19" rack. It should take up half a rack width - leaving space for perhaps another project.

The PSU needed can be any +/-12V or +/-15V supply. But the Oakley RPSU has been designed for this very purpose.



More details:

http://www.oakleysound.com/rpsu.htm

numbertalk wrote:
What level signal is it expecting, for "optimal" sound? Will it sound just as good on the output of my Minimoog or Juno as it would with a 10vp-p VCO from my modular?

Standard line level but it can cope with modular levels too. There's an input level control to adjust the sensitivity. And with a couple of resistor changes it will be able to deal with even smaller signals too.

Tony
Paradigm X
Synthbuilder wrote:
Paradigm X wrote:
So, are the bandpass filters centre frequenecies twiddleable? I see theyre not on headers, but my simple brain thinks it might be possible to adjust if i replace resistors with pots?

Not twiddleable I'm afraid. The network filter banks are direct clones of the originals. To make them adjustable would need a four gang pot for each of the seven resonators.


uim actually still considering these, depending on the values needed it could be not 'much' more than normal pots...

What would be the result of using 14 dual gangs out of interest?

Guess i should wait til ive bought and got schematics.

Cheers Tony.
Synthbuilder
Actually, I don't think you could do it even with quad gang pots. Well, not in any controlled manner. Basically, the Vox mode consists of 14 Deliyannis filters. Each of the seven frequency bands being achieved by two near identical deliyannis resonators in series.

More about Deliyannis filters can be found in Electronotes EN73 and EN91. I've used them before in the Oakley Octal Resonator (a bit of a sales flop that one) but there's various pages about them on the net as well as Yves FFB page here:

http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/BANK/index.html

Again, Yves used fixed frequencies because to maintain Q while changing Fc is not trivial.

Tony
numbertalk
Sorry I managed to totally space on the RPSU being a big part of this thread. This is excellent! Will be ordering these both soon. Thanks!

Synthbuilder wrote:
numbertalk wrote:
I could see wanting this as a rack or stand-alone unit. Any thoughts on how I could wire up a power supply to be able to connect this to mains? I know it would be possible, JH use to do it for some of his circuits and I've built many of them this way. Anyone know of any stand-alone board that are available I could put in front of this circuit?

The HVM is designed to be used as a standalone project. I would anticipate most users will put theirs into a 19" rack. It should take up half a rack width - leaving space for perhaps another project.

The PSU needed can be any +/-12V or +/-15V supply. But the Oakley RPSU has been designed for this very purpose.



More details:

http://www.oakleysound.com/rpsu.htm

numbertalk wrote:
What level signal is it expecting, for "optimal" sound? Will it sound just as good on the output of my Minimoog or Juno as it would with a 10vp-p VCO from my modular?

Standard line level but it can cope with modular levels too. There's an input level control to adjust the sensitivity. And with a couple of resistor changes it will be able to deal with even smaller signals too.

Tony
numbertalk
Synthbuilder wrote:
But if you trust me and want to purchase one of the limited run of first issue boards


How limited? I am planning to order both of these in ~2 weeks, after my credit card statement closes for the month. Would I definitely be able to get 1 of each at this time or should I order now?
Synthbuilder
numbertalk wrote:
How limited?

Don't worry. I've got about fifteen left. I don't think they'll all go in the next couple of weeks

Tony
numbertalk
Synthbuilder wrote:
numbertalk wrote:
How limited?

Don't worry. I've got about fifteen left. I don't think they'll all go in the next couple of weeks

Tony


Great thanks!!
Paradigm X
Synthbuilder wrote:
Actually, I don't think you could do it even with quad gang pots. Well, not in any controlled manner. Basically, the Vox mode consists of 14 Deliyannis filters. Each of the seven frequency bands being achieved by two near identical deliyannis resonators in series.

More about Deliyannis filters can be found in Electronotes EN73 and EN91. I've used them before in the Oakley Octal Resonator (a bit of a sales flop that one) but there's various pages about them on the net as well as Yves FFB page here:

http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/BANK/index.html

Again, Yves used fixed frequencies because to maintain Q while changing Fc is not trivial.

Tony


Cool, sorry, thought id replied to this.

I can see from Yves' formulae the difficulties. Yikes.

But please do consider a vocal filter type thing, even a simple one, theres none really available apart from jims insame thing. With minimal/no wiring, its would be awesome.

Cheers
Ben
terjewinther
I am building the HVM module, and plan to put it in a case with the chorus unit (when it is ready). I am also building the little RPSU power board, and plan to drive the two modules from a single wall-wart. I have a lot of those small single-power (two wires) 18V / 300mA wall-warts. Will that be sufficient?
terjewinther
In the builders guide version 1.0.1 (which is the current on the web site) of the RPSU the diodes D1 and D2 are missing. They are there in the schematics (and in the photos of the completed kit), and should be 1N4004 (or 1N4002).
terjewinther
...and C7 + C8 electrolytics are missing from the component list in the builders guide. Seems to be 10uF from the schematics.
numbertalk
Hi Tony, I sent you an email last week for an order of these 2 PCBs but haven't heard back. Just checking here in case you didn't receive my messages.

Thanks.
Synthbuilder
terjewinther wrote:
In the builders guide version 1.0.1 (which is the current on the web site) of the RPSU the diodes D1 and D2 are missing.

...and C7 + C8 electrolytics are missing from the component list in the builders guide. Seems to be 10uF from the schematics.

Thanks Terje for spotting that and letting me know. I have now updated the Builder's Guide with the correct parts.

Tony
Synthbuilder
numbertalk wrote:
Hi Tony, I sent you an email last week for an order of these 2 PCBs but haven't heard back.

Got them now. I've been on holiday for the last ten days and I'll be wading through my inbox all day today. Hopefully, you'll get a reply in the next hour or two.

Tony
terjewinther
Almost finished building both the power supply and the HVM. I thought I had all the components in my drawer, but there is always something missing.
I found the answer to the power: it needs a bigger power pack, probably something like 1000mA. I have several around, so I will find one I can use, but: what is the suggested +/- wiring: minus in the middle of the power contact, or is + in the middle more common?
Synthbuilder
Didn't see your question on the power supply.

terjewinther wrote:
I found the answer to the power: it needs a bigger power pack, probably something like 1000mA.

I'm not sure yet just how much power the quad chorus will take. It is very likely to be a lot more than the HVM - four BBDs and their drivers banging away at 150kHz will take some current to drive.

terjewinther wrote:
... what is the suggested +/- wiring: minus in the middle of the power contact, or is + in the middle more common?

Neither. The RPSU needs an AC output power pack. On a single phase (two wire) wallwart neither of the terminals is a positive or negative as such. They can be wired in any way you chose - but neither should make contact with the metal case directly.

Depending on the power needed by the SE module it is possible that the SE and HVM in the same case will need a more beefier solution than a wallwart power pack. A 1000mA single phase AC power pack will supply around 250mA per rail. That may be pushing it with both the HVM and SE1 in the same case. I think we'll be back to using the Yamaha PA-20 or an internal transformer.

Tony
terjewinther
OK, thanks for the power supply feedback.
Once the SE1 is ready, it would be appreciated if you could calculate how much juice is needed from a power pack or an internal transformer.
terjewinther
Tiny word missing in the HVM part list under pots:
The frequency 10k log pot is DUAL.
Synthbuilder
terjewinther wrote:
Tiny word missing in the HVM part list under pots:
The frequency 10k log pot is DUAL.

d'oh! oops
I'll get it fixed in the morning. Sorry about that!

Tony
terjewinther
Finished building the HVM. It sounds great! I instantly recognized the sounds from the VP and the Lambda. Subtle changes when flipping the "pitch" and "footage" switches, but still noticeable, especially in the higher register with single sounds, and in the lower part when playing chords. The VP simulation really needs the chorus unit, while I certainly see many uses for the Lambda emulation as it is with its full, warm sound. Just delightful! Very useful eq as well.

I am very pleased to build an Oakley board again. As always it is a pleasure to build, and to follow the builder´s instruction. Curious to build such a large board and have absolutely no trimmers!

So now I am eagerly waiting for the chorus board. And case and front panel. I am still missing two parts for the small power supply, so I just powered the HVM from my modular, and used the bare board lying directly on my bench.
Paradigm X
Interested to hear/see a sample!
numbertalk
Hi Tony. Would you happen to have an FPD file or specs on the spacing and sizes of the drill holes for PCB mounted pots, switches & LEDs?

Thanks!
Synthbuilder
numbertalk wrote:
Would you happen to have an FPD file or specs on the spacing and sizes of the drill holes for PCB mounted pots, switches & LEDs?


The only thing I've got is the one attached. It should be right but I've not tested it. I will be doing a full 19" wide one as soon as the SE330 is finished.

Tony
numbertalk
Excellent thanks! Any idea when the other component and the 19" version will be done?

Synthbuilder wrote:
numbertalk wrote:
Would you happen to have an FPD file or specs on the spacing and sizes of the drill holes for PCB mounted pots, switches & LEDs?


The only thing I've got is the one attached. It should be right but I've not tested it. I will be doing a full 19" wide one as soon as the SE330 is finished.

Tony
Synthbuilder
numbertalk wrote:
Any idea when the other component and the 19" version will be done?

A good question. Well, the project has sort of grown a bit. Right now, I'm not sure whether the SE330 will fit in a half width rack but I'm going to try. The plan now is not just to replicate the quad ensemble effect of the VP330 but also add to it the Juno chorus, Dimension-D and plenty of variations in between. I'm not saying it'll sound exactly like any of them but the prototype sounds pretty groovy.

The schematic is almost done. Just the output stage to complete and then I'll start laying the board out.

Possibly ready to ship by the end of July?

Tony
numbertalk
Wow, so not too far from now. And that is meant to interface with the HVM, right? Might just wait to order my components and build them both at the same time with a single 19" panel.

Synthbuilder wrote:
numbertalk wrote:
Any idea when the other component and the 19" version will be done?

A good question. Well, the project has sort of grown a bit. Right now, I'm not sure whether the SE330 will fit in a half width rack but I'm going to try. The plan now is not just to replicate the quad ensemble effect of the VP330 but also add to it the Juno chorus, Dimension-D and plenty of variations in between. I'm not saying it'll sound exactly like any of them but the prototype sounds pretty groovy.

The schematic is almost done. Just the output stage to complete and then I'll start laying the board out.

Possibly ready to ship by the end of July?

Tony
numbertalk
Actually I would like to order the Multicomp switches if possible for both modules while I'm waiting. Do you know which ones (if any) I'll need for the SE330 circuit?
numbertalk
Same with the pots too, actually, if you know what I'd need for the SE330, since I get those from Futurlec & they take a while.

Thanks!
Synthbuilder
numbertalk wrote:
Do you know which ones (if any) I'll need for the SE330 circuit?

What I have on the design right now is:

4 of 50Klinear
2 of Dual 50Klinear

1 of 'on-off-on' single pole toggle switch

But... this is all possible to change. So I wouldn't recommend ordering anything just yet.

Tony
numbertalk
Gotcha, thanks.

Synthbuilder wrote:
numbertalk wrote:
Do you know which ones (if any) I'll need for the SE330 circuit?

What I have on the design right now is:

4 of 50Klinear
2 of Dual 50Klinear

1 of 'on-off-on' single pole toggle switch

But... this is all possible to change. So I wouldn't recommend ordering anything just yet.

Tony
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