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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Newby 300 questions
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Wiard Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Newby 300 questions
NYMo
Hey..I've got 6 u of the Walekko modules ATM and am thinking of going 300.
( I have the old controller already)

My questions may seem naive ..but info is hard to find .
Are there any build differences between a classic ( 10 years or older) and the new ones ( other than the bantams on the new ones)

Does the classic need to be refurbed after a certain period of time ?

Are there any sound differences between
The Classic and the new version ?

Thanks for helping a wiggler out.

Cheers
slow_riot
Cary or Grant will be able to tell you the most.

I think ultimately both designers have pushed themselves to their own limits to make the 300 series the best sounding, most functional and most serviceable and reliable modules that they could.

I believe there are some subtle differences, including some slight redesigns of modules (which also has been occurring since the beginning as slight tweaks have been implemented, parts availability has changed, customers wishes have been made into flesh).

I think at their core they are all the same modules really with long term reliability not different between modules.

I think Cary has made some tweaks, partcularly with the chassis which make the modules a little more physically robust with transport/gigging.
laserpalace
Quote:
I think at their core they are all the same modules really with long term reliability not different between modules.


+1

In my experience the biggest difference you might come across is the aesthetic. It's largely the same across the board but some of the panel finishes and colors may slightly vary. I have a very early edition of the Waveform City that Grant screened himself, I love it! I think that's an "issue" you will run into with most hand made instruments. The legends might also appear differently depending on the age, and some of the first modules could use modifications that were implemented in later runs. I'm not sure how many of those early editions there are floating around though.

Since some of the modules are getting close to 15 years now, you might consider a "tune up". Cary recently worked on my Woggle Bug & Borg and they sound and feel brand new. It's my understanding that the system was built to anticipate failure, so upgrades/repairs if needed can be done with relative ease.

I hope that helps. I switched over to 300 about a year and 1/2 ago and couldn't be happier! It's a great investment.
NYMo
Thanks for your advice.
Two last things....is it possible to buy blank panels from Wiard ?
How many units are in a 19 inch rack .

Cheers
laserpalace
No problem. Each panel equates to 14HP, so roughly 6 panels should fit 19". As far as blanks go I would hit up Rico Loverse. I believe he had some at one point.
chamomileshark
hi, while 6 fit a 19 inch rack you may need to get a frame.
construct09
[quote="NYMo"]Hey..I've got 6 u of the Walekko modules ATM and am thinking of going 300.
( I have the old controller already)


PM me if you,re interested in buying my system, I,m in Victoria.
dubchild
I wish Grant's old website was still up. I remember there were modifications that were offered for certain modules for an extra fee. Not sure if these mods are now standard in Cary's modules or not.
Also, and this is just my opinion, I prefer the modules made by Grant(the original designer), I guess it is just a psychological mojo/voodoo thing for me, not to say that Cary's modules aren't fine.
NYMo
Hey...I've joined the club It's peanut butter jelly time!

Just picked up a Classic VCo, Borg and envelator.
I have the old controller with the volt meter already.

Now..I'm wondering if I should keep my jag or let it go ?
I'll most probably keep the anti, boogie filter and start thinking about my next 300 purchase ...thinking of Wfc (?)

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers
slow_riot
The made by Grant thing is bollocks IMO... believe it if you want but I have absolutely no doubt that Cary has done everything that is possible to maintain the original spirit of the Wiard modules and push them on even further.

Boogie is essential for me. Same with the Anti Oscillators.
thesnow
slow_riot wrote:
The made by Grant thing is bollocks IMO... believe it if you want but I have absolutely no doubt that Cary has done everything that is possible to maintain the original spirit of the Wiard modules and push them on even further.

Boogie is essential for me. Same with the Anti Oscillators.


nodnod thumbs up
dubchild
expunged

However, PM if you want to know why I feel this way.
MrTea
slow_riot wrote:
The made by Grant thing is bollocks IMO... believe it if you want but I have absolutely no doubt that Cary has done everything that is possible to maintain the original spirit of the Wiard modules and push them on even further.


I agree!
chamomileshark
dubchild wrote:
I prefer the modules made by Grant(the original designer), I guess it is just a psychological mojo/voodoo thing for me, not to say that Cary's modules aren't fine.


I get that. It's not about the quality or any objective difference, it's the magic of having something personally built by the original designer.
slow_riot
I understand the sentiment, but I'm just trying to assert the level of care that has been invested by Cary into the rerelease of the Wiard line. She has obviously worked very hard to liase with Grant to get to the heart of the modules, as well as implementing some tweaks to correct for some oversights. Such as no offset on a Sequantizer... I use 3 and I've completely taken it for granted that I can just plug them in and not have to retune!

So, whilst I can totally understand the magic of having original Grant built modules, I don't think Cary's modules are just a lazy rehash by any stretch of the imagination. I think they all are valid in the Wiard ecosystem.
carygrace
Hi guys,

Just want to clarify a few things:

The 300 modules I have been building do have some subtle differences (all of which are improvements, totally sanctioned by Grant)! In fact, I have been using up the last batch of faceplates Grant had made before he had to stop manufacturing several years ago, so the faceplates on the current batch of modules are the same as the last ones Grant made (though the colour did vary over batches when Grant was manufacturing, so an earlier module may not match).

Over the years, Grant mostly kept the modules identical to the original designs, even though there were improvements that could be made. A big reason for that was just lack of time, as it kept him very busy just doing the manufacturing. He did do some mods on a case-by-case basis for some customers though. There were also several different board revs made over the years to fix mistakes and add improvements, primarily driven by customer feedback.

When I started working with Grant, we discussed and made some improvements pretty immediately. First, I had chassis made up by a metalwork company to replace the laboriously hand-machined boxes of old. This made a big difference in labour, and also made the modules a bit more sturdy.

Next, I insulated all the connections to the panel, so that, for instance, if a pot became loose and twisted, the contacts would not be able to touch any other metal surfaces. This removed the need to put silicone around the pots on the inside, cutting down further on labour and making pot replacement in the field easier.

I also modified the Sequantizer to remove the offset, something Grant would have liked to include, but ran out of space on the board. We also made some improvements to the circuitry to prevent accidentally blowing chips up by patching negative going CVs into certain inputs.

The PCBs themselves were also all original until very recently. After the PCBs for Envelators ran out, I had new ones made. They are entirely the same circuit, but the boards are physically more robust, have a ground plane, and the protection on the power rails is improved. Also I reinstated some trimmers that were left off the old boards which allow the envelope times to be precisely calibrated, and changed a couple resistor values to allow for a wider time range on the envelopes. Apart from these things, the new Envelators behave just the same way as they always did.

I will be making new boards for each module in turn, as the old ones run out. New panels will be made as well, fairly soon, as the old ones are nearly gone.

Other small differences:

-Nylon locking nuts and ss hardware on the LED board and PCB pillars.

-I changed the connectors on the power cables to metal body Rean ones.

-The power wiring is a heavier gauge now.

-All the ICs are now socketed for easy replacement.

-Availability of Bantam jack boards with balanced-compatible connections as an option, to better serve our professional studio customers (3.5 mm still available).

Anyway, these things having been said, I would like to stress the fact that no major changes have been made to the original 300 Series at all. The changes discussed above are primarily designed to improve longevity and durability, and in a few cases to correct problems. If any further changes are made, these will of course be fully disclosed.

The modules still come with the same warranty they always did.

Someone was asking about servicing needs. The pots will probably need replacement at some point (10 years seems to be about how long they last). This can be done by the owner in most cases. Pot assemblies can be ordered from me. Other than that, I am fully supporting the 300 Series, and can do any repairs needed. Outside of the warranty period, there will be a nominal bench fee, and cost of parts will need covering.

(Just an aside for those with 1200 Series modules: Grant is still servicing them as he can, so please contact him about those. I am only supporting the 300 Series at this time.)

Best wishes and happy wiggling,
Cary
chamomileshark
carygrace wrote:


I also modified the Sequantizer to remove the offset, something Grant would have liked to include, but ran out of space on the board. We also made some improvements to the circuitry to prevent accidentally blowing chips up by patching negative going CVs into certain inputs.


Cary


eek! care to say more? I'd rather not accidently blow the chips - any tips on avoiding that? And if I do, are you able to repair it easily? Or would you advise getting them modded now?
carygrace
chamomileshark wrote:

eek! care to say more? I'd rather not accidently blow the chips - any tips on avoiding that? And if I do, are you able to repair it easily? Or would you advise getting them modded now?


Patching an LFO (or any negative voltage) into the "transpose" input can potentially damage one of the ICs. If memory serves, the Oct+, Oct-, and possibly portamento may have been vulnerable too. Basically, just don't plug a negative voltage into these. If you do however, it is a fairly easy fix, but the IC in question is not socketed on any pre-2010 modules, so it would have to come back for repair. It is not a big deal though, so I would not worry until you have a problem, unless you'd like the offset fixed.

If you like, I can do a fairly simple series of mods to the PCB that adds protection against this, as well as cleaning up the logic circuitry to stop some long extant issues of being able to position it between stages, and other isolated weird behaviour that, rarely, some users have experienced. The offset mod involves adding a little sub-board with an extra trimmer so the offset can be trimmed out as part of the calibration process. All that is now standard on new modules. Send me an email if interested.
carygrace
dubchild wrote:
I wish Grant's old website was still up. I remember there were modifications that were offered for certain modules for an extra fee. Not sure if these mods are now standard in Cary's modules or not.


I hope to have the time to sort through the old website at some point and make any useful information contained therein available once more. Unfortunately I've been so busy with getting Wiard going again that I haven't been able to do so yet.

About mods, you are right that Grant used to do some for an added fee. He had to stop offering them eventually though due to lack of time. I have continued as things were when I took over, so I don't offer any "standard" mods, but if there is something someone really wants, they are free to ask, and I will see what I can do based on practicality and my work load.
slow_riot
i got the chip failure from putting a constant DC voltage at 3 or 4 V into one of slide, oct+ or oct- , out of curiosity leaving it at the point in between the logic where it oscillates.
NYMo
Ok....another question !

Are the Malekko Wiard modules exactly the same in sound as the Wiard 300 ?
I'm presuming Grants circuits are basically the same ?

Cheers
slow_riot
They are more comparable to the Wiard 1200.

W300 is no expenses spared... highest quality components, more power filtering, through hole soldering, user replaceable pots.

Malekko are more economical but like you say, they're Grant's circuits and have very similar musicality... e.g. 0-10v CV operation, similar design and sound choices.

I have a bunch of 1200 modules and a bunch of Malekko modules to compliment my W300.
thesnow
NYMo wrote:
Ok....another question !

Are the Malekko Wiard modules exactly the same in sound as the Wiard 300 ?
I'm presuming Grants circuits are basically the same ?

Cheers


the malekko website specifically states about their modules:

"The Malekko Wiard series of modules offer the same great sound, ergonomics, musicality, and quality that made the Wiard 300 series legendary, at a fraction of the cost and size in Eurorack modular format."
NYMo
Yeah......but thats the marketing speak...ive read that !

I notice a lot of wigglers have both 300 and Walekko modules, hence my question regarding real world differences.

So its a blue panel and better manufacturing then ?
Thank god im a sucker for a blue synth then !

Cheers
grantrichter
NYMo wrote:
Ok....another question !

Are the Malekko Wiard modules exactly the same in sound as the Wiard 300 ?
I'm presuming Grants circuits are basically the same ?

Cheers


The simple answer is "No". The 300 series, 1200 series and Malekko modules are all different designs. The details are highly technical.
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