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2600 clone - Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 166, 167, 168 [all]
Author 2600 clone - Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH)
hamildad
Not brave enough to try the Fuzzbass waveshaper Mod but I should really upgrade my Reverb connections, will the instructions/part up thread work on a V2?
fuzzbass
hamildad wrote:
Not brave enough to try the Fuzzbass waveshaper Mod but I should really upgrade my Reverb connections, will the instructions/part up thread work on a V2?


They do, but be careful with the shield connection. This is to avoid a nearly guaranteed ground loop.

You want shield continuity as follows:
0V from 3 pin header on board to>
Shield in return lead >
Shield connector on return (red) jack, reverb pan >
Shield connector on send (white) jack, reverb pan >
Shield in send lead [stop]

In other words, don't connect the shield from the send lead to the three pin header; do make sure you have continuity between the shield connection on both jacks on the reverb pan.

Pans come with varying "ground" configurations on the jacks. You can mod any of these to provide the above continuity, by if necessary, adding a wire jumper between the jacks.

For example: "input shielded, output grounded" means you need to add a jumper between the jacks. The only configuration where you don't is "input grounded, output grounded". Its usually tricky finding the spring, impedance and decay options of your choice with this exact grounding configuration.

The end result should be that any noise picked in the shield of either cable finds its shunt path through the return cable.

One last thing: don't make reverb connections under power. You WILL smoke the LM301 in the recovery amp.

I wish you good fortune in the mods to come.
Val
Hello,

Any news about rev.4 ?
fuzzbass
Val wrote:
Hello,

Any news about rev.4 ?


I believe the TTSH is planned to be carried forward by Synthcube. There are other ARP 2600ish products on the horizon, most notably from Logan Soloman -although the LS instruments are not DIY. No announced release dates for any of these that I am aware of.
sduck
The Logan Solomon 2600 - there will be 2 versions. The David is full size, modular/expandable version, which will only be available assembled. The Enigma is an approximately TTSH sized version, which comes with most of the common mods pre-done, and will be available both assembled and in DIY version. These are both pretty far into the development phase, alpha builders are already building them.

^^^all this is based on what I currently know, and is possibly subject to error and or change. More info here - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214590

What's cool about these is that these have the submodules like the originals did - in fact the submodules are designed so that they can be subbed into an actual 2600. Here's some of those (note that they're not quite complete - waiting on some mc1539g's) (also note that the pcb's are actually the same color - taken with different cameras, different days, different light) -



aquatarkus
Quote:
most notably from Logan Soloman -although the LS instruments are not DIY. No announced release dates for any of these that I am aware of.


Just want to clarify this a bit. We will offer Enigma DIY as long as people want it (basically indefinitely) and we will do a factory built version too. The plan is for the DIY kits to have different color PCBs from the factory built versions and from Alpha versions - trying to make sure our Alpha guys have a unique version.

David, on the other hand, will only be factory built at Polyfusion - that's where the DIY is limited to Alpha builders.

We do not have a release date yet. We are working through the builds to make sure everything is right first. So far only a few BOM changes, but the PCBs are all working as they should! Rockin' Banana!
mothy
Built this badboy a couple years back and love it, swapped the LED's for UV LED's and Crono cables from ctrl-mod, makes this thing truly inspiring to play with and make music. My only issue is traveling with it. I do play a gig once or twice a year and usually just wrap it up in a thick blanket, but I'd like something a little more solid. The cabinet I have is the steel powdercoated cabinet and I prefer not to modify it any more because I think its perfect. I'd rather get a Pelican style case with foam inside I can cutout to size, but I'm afraid to order something online without seeing the actual size compared to my unit. Has anyone ordered a Pelican style hardcase for their TTSH? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I was considering maybe harbor freight, or going to a tactical supply store with the thing and finding the right case, but i dunno...

[/img]
sanders
tobb wrote:
synthcube wrote:


Of course, comments and feedback from this community are welcome! If we proceed, order details will follow in a separate thread.


Cool would be to have PCB component patterns for using faders w/o led shafts and the option to use switchcraft tini jax sockets.


I’ve been thinking about the very same things ever since TTSH came out. I’d prefer Tiny-Jax to play easier with other vintage synths, and just not into the look/feel of LED sliders. I’m really surprised I haven’t seen one build yet using the original 2600 slider caps. The caps are available newly manufactured, although pretty expensive. I’m thinking they ought to fit.

I’d also think that Tiny-Jax could fit in the space designed for 3.5mm.

Does anyone here know if anyone has tried either of these substitutions on a TTSH assembly?
sanders
Is there someone who manufactures Tolex 2600 style cases for the TTSH? I’ve seen tons of builds using really nice scaled down 2600 tolex cases, but don’t know of any website selling case only (without buying a fully assembled TTSH build).
sanders
double post
revtor
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-elect ronic-music-production/1266795-arp-2600-owners-anybody-interested-new- cases.html#post14009392

He may do a scaled down version for you??

Steve
Jaytee
I believe Synthcube said they were interested in stocking some if they could find someone to make them.
sanders
Thanks! I’m thinking someone will surely take up the reigns and offer 2600 style road cases. There was a website, now retired, San Pedro Labs, that offered beautiful lidded roadcase reproductions for $600. That seemed reasonable.

I’m debating if I wanna take on a TTSH project now that they’re gonna be more widely available. Now I can really research everything and think it through, without needing to jump on a limited release.

The TTSH panel is beautiful, and goes long way in selling me this project. love the grey 2600 panels the best. It appears to follow 2600 schematics well enough (so far as the 4027 and 4012 circuits I’ve been looking at.

But I’m puzzled at how divergent the TTSH sounds from my memory of the 2600’s sound. Based on videos anyway. I love that raw, rich, electronic 2600 tonality, and I don’t understand why the TTSH doesn’t seem to get there in recordings I’ve heard. Maybe I haven’t heard enough (or any?) Rev3 4012 VCF examples. Maybe that’s the sound in my memory.

revtor wrote:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-elect ronic-music-production/1266795-arp-2600-owners-anybody-interested-new- cases.html#post14009392

He may do a scaled down version for you??
fuzzbass
sanders wrote:
Thanks! I’m thinking someone will surely take up the reigns and offer 2600 style road cases. There was a website, now retired, San Pedro Labs, that offered beautiful lidded roadcase reproductions for $600. That seemed reasonable.

I’m debating if I wanna take on a TTSH project now that they’re gonna be more widely available. Now I can really research everything and think it through, without needing to jump on a limited release.

The TTSH panel is beautiful, and goes long way in selling me this project. love the grey 2600 panels the best. It appears to follow 2600 schematics well enough (so far as the 4027 and 4012 circuits I’ve been looking at.

But I’m puzzled at how divergent the TTSH sounds from my memory of the 2600’s sound. Based on videos anyway. I love that raw, rich, electronic 2600 tonality, and I don’t understand why the TTSH doesn’t seem to get there in recordings I’ve heard. Maybe I haven’t heard enough (or any?) Rev3 4012 VCF examples. Maybe that’s the sound in my memory.

revtor wrote:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-elect ronic-music-production/1266795-arp-2600-owners-anybody-interested-new- cases.html#post14009392

He may do a scaled down version for you??


I build cases styled after the arp 2600 case, but they are expensive for me to produce, since I don't have any automated cutting machines, just ole fashioned table saw, drill press and router table. Just the hardware I put into them comes up to something like $75. Also, I live in Florida and my workshop is not climate controlled. The high humidity makes it nearly impossible to upholster tolex, since the glues will fail unless set in low humidity. So my cases are painted with Duratex. The high material cost and time to cut and assemble means I can only sell these cases when I have a full build commission as part of the deal.

Sorry I know this is not what you want to hear, but when you say that $600 is a reasonable cost, I would have to differ with that - at least for a case only deal. A lot of material, time and craft goes into the cases I build and $600 is on the low side for me.

With respect to your observation about the sound quality of online demos you have heard, ask yourself whether you are listening to a TTSH, or some recording (of possibly questionable quality) of one. A lot of these videos are shot using a crappy phone mic, and using the shitty speakers in the TTSH. If you are seriously considering a TTSH, get into the room with a TTSH, if you can.
sduck
If you want a precise replication of the original sound, you might want to consider the Logan Soloman Enigma or the David - they're a lot closer in design to the originals, and is designed to use as close to the original parts as one is willing to expend on.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214590
sanders
fuzzbass wrote:

Sorry I know this is not what you want to hear, but when you say that $600 is a reasonable cost, I would have to differ with that - at least for a case only deal. A lot of material, time and craft goes into the cases I build and $600 is on the low side


Yeah man, I’m not surprised to hear this at all. In fact, that’s more/less what I was saying, $600 seemed like a very modest price for the cases pictured on the San Pedro website. None the less, I’ve read that this was the price. I’d be willing to spend as much as I could afford to in order to get the closest possible reproduction.

By the way, I would also absolutely be into the idea of buying the wood piece cutouts and assembling them at home (and tolexing) if this were a viable option (viable for me to save money and still get a scaled down reproduction, and viable for someone to turn a profit selling such kits).
sanders
sduck wrote:
If you want a precise replication of the original sound, you might want to consider the Logan Soloman Enigma or the David - they're a lot closer in design to the originals, and is designed to use as close to the original parts as one is willing to expend on.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214590


I’m keeping an eye on these projects as well; although there are aspects of the TTSH that I prefer (mainly the aesthetics); I’m going keep studying the schematics and try to figure out what if any significant part/design differences are present in the TTSH. I’ve just started researching the project, and I was hoping someone might have done this work for me already, but I haven’t come across any such comparisons. Nor have I noticed anything in the VCOs or VCF, besides IC and transistor substitutions that I wouldn’t guess would make much difference.

Maybe the TTSH differences are not big as I perceive. That said, I have heard a demo from Logo Solomon that knocked my socks off and sounded just like a 2600 to my ears.
tobb
sanders wrote:

although there are aspects of the TTSH that I prefer (mainly the aesthetics)


Yep,also maintains better its re-sell value due to that!
fuzzbass
sanders wrote:
fuzzbass wrote:

Sorry I know this is not what you want to hear, but when you say that $600 is a reasonable cost, I would have to differ with that - at least for a case only deal. A lot of material, time and craft goes into the cases I build and $600 is on the low side


Yeah man, I’m not surprised to hear this at all. In fact, that’s more/less what I was saying, $600 seemed like a very modest price for the cases pictured on the San Pedro website. None the less, I’ve read that this was the price. I’d be willing to spend as much as I could afford to in order to get the closest possible reproduction.

By the way, I would also absolutely be into the idea of buying the wood piece cutouts and assembling them at home (and tolexing) if this were a viable option (viable for me to save money and still get a scaled down reproduction, and viable for someone to turn a profit selling such kits).


If you have not done Tolex or other upholstery before, keep in mind that it takes some practice to reach a reasonable result. If you start right in on a large project from zero experience, I can almost guarantee you heartbreak.

Solvent (example Dap contact cement) or water based (example Mojotone tolex glue) adhesives (all of which reduce down to neoprene) must be applied in climate controlled conditions, and with good ventilation. If humidity is above ~70%, the glue joints will be contaminated. They will hold for a month or two, and then begin to fail.

This is why I abandoned using Tolex. At the point where I am finishing the case, there is already a good deal of time and material invested.

The alternative to neoprene based solvents is heat activated glue. This requires industrial equipment for glue application and custom cutting dies for the fabric - there is zero time to cut the fabric to fit after the glue is applied. The heat process is completely unforgiving of error. If you place the fabric wrong initially, you have a ruined workpiece. The same process is used to put carpeting in cars, although the cutting dies for the carpet are typically heated blades.

Here is video showing the hot glue process being done at the Mesa Boogie factory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hRJqwhUCPQ
fuzzbass
sanders wrote:
I’m going keep studying the schematics and try to figure out what if any significant part/design differences are present in the TTSH.


I encourage you to do that. You will have some interesting challenges:

1. Original ARP schematics list values, but don't go into specific component types, tolerances or compositions, so you have to factor in what was economical for them to use at that time. There are specific points in the circuit where they wanted to spend a little more money but they don't document where, and they potted the a lot of this circuitry.

2. There appears to be subterfuge in some of the original schematics, where ARP intentionally drew in the wrong component or value, to prevent copying.

3. What bears out over time is that in many locations, the older, lower tolerance and presumably noisier or slower components contribute to the quality and character of the instrument.

This is what sduck is alluding to above, WRT Enigma and David, where all of this exploration, trial and error is already taking place. David is an attempt to build a synth that is both a. as close as possible to a beloved version of the 2600, and b. designed to meet rigorous expectations for a studio instrument. It will be a high end instrument with a commensurate price.
sduck
sanders wrote:
there are aspects of the TTSH that I prefer (mainly the aesthetics)

Since there are no existing finished Enigmas or Davids there's no way to judge this part of it yet.
synthcube
We are still hoping to have a solution for Tolex road cases. The San Pedro Labs cases were beautiful but they're not operating at the moment. We have secured stock for wood studio cases in cherry, walnut and poplar for those interested in upgrading beyond the metal base case.
sanders
synthcube wrote:
We are still hoping to have a solution for Tolex road cases. The San Pedro Labs cases were beautiful but they're not operating at the moment

Revtor’s link above to a recent (2 weeks ago?) GS post includes a very detailed discussion of various aspects of the Roadcase build by a person who says he’s already building full scale 2600 reproduction cases with original hardware and intends to build scaled down TTSH road cases given enough demand. He seems very serious and researched on the topic (as are people here obviously). I would think this fellow is a good lead for a potential builder, and is also quite candid about pricing estimates. I’ll re-post the link:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-elect ronic-music-production/1266795-arp-2600-owners-anybody-interested-new- cases.html#post14009392
sanders
fuzzbass wrote:
sanders wrote:
I’m going keep studying the schematics and try to figure out what if any significant part/design differences are present in the TTSH.

I encourage you to do that. You will have some interesting challenges...


Thanks very much for breaking this down— it’s exactly what I’ve been wondering about, and makes a great deal of sense.

I’ve owned and restored 3 Odys, including an early Tonus 2800 that has kludges and traces that aren’t represented in the manual, not to mention all of the mysteriously selected parts in all of the versions. I can visualize these challenges quite clearly now.
synthcube
sanders wrote:
synthcube wrote:
We are still hoping to have a solution for Tolex road cases. The San Pedro Labs cases were beautiful but they're not operating at the moment

Revtor’s link above to a recent (2 weeks ago?) GS post includes a very detailed discussion of various aspects of the Roadcase build by a person who says he’s already building full scale 2600 reproduction cases with original hardware and intends to build scaled down TTSH road cases given enough demand. He seems very serious and researched on the topic (as are people here obviously). I would think this fellow is a good lead for a potential builder, and is also quite candid about pricing estimates. I’ll re-post the link:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-elect ronic-music-production/1266795-arp-2600-owners-anybody-interested-new- cases.html#post14009392


hey folks we tried to reply to an email that Scott sent to us about road cases but it got bounced back.. some issue with outlook, yahoo or both-- anyone in touch with him could you have him reach out to us again? thanks
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