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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

2600 clone - Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH)
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author 2600 clone - Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH)
zthee
See the website - www.thehumancomparator.net for more information!

OK, so haven't edited this post since June or so.

Here's the latest pic of the build (It's a real unit, not a render!)



Second prototype has been finished.



First sounds of 2nd -

[s]http://soundcloud.com/info-1822/ttsh-prototype-2-current[/s]

Sounds from 1st proto -

[s]http://soundcloud.com/info-1822/ttsh-2[/s]

[s]http://soundcloud.com/info-1822/ttsh[/s]

It all started in this thread - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=76845 with this post - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1111392#1111392

So this post is a continuation of that, repeating stuff already written, so you'll have a chance to catch up!

And as stated in that thread the plan is to make a DIY 2600 clone. Called Two Thousand Six Hundred (Or TTSH for short). I will offer a panel and a PCB. The other components will probably be sold by a fellow Wiggler. But we still have to figure that all out. The only thing left is to find someone that can make a box for it. I have the drawings for the box already done, but we'll figure that out once we get there.

The original 2600 is a beast, and as some people has jokingly said before it should be 86% of the size. And I agree. Hence I've made it smaller. Though not really 86%, more closely to 73% or something. It measures 60 cm x 30 cm now (About the size of a original Korg MS-20 funny enough).


Big PCB - http://thehumancomparator.net/arp2600/2600-board.png

Everything is prewired and PCB mounted on the board. Slides and jacks. So there is minimal wiring to be done. (CV, gate + trig and speakers.).

All modules have their own power connection, so you can test build them one and one, with out worrying about toasting something in one corner just because you pop in a chip the wrong way in the other corner. PSU hasn't been decided yet. But looking after a good and reliable DC-DC converter, which is capable of providing a few amps for not so many dollars.

The sliders are Bourns PTA and they have a LED on them. If you don't like it, you can get caps for them. You can select the brightness of the LEDs with a trim pot on the front panel.

Modules chosen are 4027-1 and the original 4012 (lawsuit).

The oscillators are still mounted on the small pesky sub modules. The rest of the sub modules have been moved down to the big board. To simplify the building process. The amp for the speakers have been changed though, to a TD2030 based circuit. But since it isn't a critical part of the design, I felt that I could poke my dirt little fingers in it.

There will be no changes to anything else. No extra this or remove this. It stays as it is. Doesn't matter if it would be the best synth in the world with an extra ADSR. It's not happening.

The estimation is to have something ready by September. But nothing is written in stone. There's still a lot of question marks...

I will receive the prototype PCB this Wednesday (24th of April) and will test it then and report back.

There is also an interest list over at my website - www.thehumancomparator.net - You can sign up and I will send out info once this project is done. I will also post here as well, but if you don't want to miss it. Also great for me so I can estimate how big this will be.

Update 130425

Proto PCB is in -

Luka
very exciting

keep us posted on your progress zthee
Monobass
applause
tIB
w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t

Amazing!
andrewF
we're not worthy

love

MY ASS IS BLEEDING fuck!
negativspace
I've been in on this by way of a certain Swedish wiggler... glad to see it coming into the light. I continue to be as excited about it as I was when I first found out. hyper

Beautiful job, zthee!
astroschnautzer
WOW MY ASS IS BLEEDING
Cheradenine
MY ASS IS BLEEDING SlayerBadger!
mDang
yeahhh ! applause
Arnob
oi oi can't wait to hear the first results!
dude
damn. i need to clean up a lil after reading this.
stimresp
Very ambitious!
I'm definitely interested.
Jefz
Nice! applause
nickster
Best of luck with this. Still very excited that you have decided to do this. (been checking the other thread daily) A very big thank you beforehand. nanners nanners thanks for the update regarding panel size. I am aiming to build my own case and have 2 designs in mind so this helps heaps. Also nice to have a post over here in DIY land just in case some fellow wigglers were missing out.
mOBiTh
oh fuck
Reality Checkpoint
Crikey Moses!
haima
SlayerBadger!
dougt
Sounds cool but one of the things that makes the 2600 so much fun to use is the ergonomics. It would feel kinda cramped I think trying to use one that's MS20 sized...
southphillysynths
When you say pre-built, how much will already be done? Will we get a pcb and a bag of parts, or a pcb with resistors caps everything else already on it? Will the values of parts be printed on the board? seriously, i just don't get it
mOBiTh
oh fucking hell this has properly made my day screaming goo yo

some sort of matching touch keyboard would be pretty special too I reckon

super super cool project 8_)
elmegil
73% gives me an *idea* but what are the actual dimensions?

What is your expected price for panel + PCB?

It's an awesome project! we're not worthy
astroschnautzer
Btw, any even rough cost estimate for this project?
alphabetter
Never seen a 2600 in the flesh, but it is a fascinating beast. I look forward to more news.
Rex Coil 7
Gee zthee .... just look at all the new exposure! I'd say this was a good idea, wouldn't you?
Popski
applause applause applause It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo Dead Banana
Rex Coil 7
astroschnautzer wrote:
Btw, any even rough cost estimate for this project?
I was lurking in the original thread before ... it seems like it will be roughly $1k plus your time (after all it is a DIY project). I think I remember hearing zthee say that the mouser package he'd set up had about $300 worth of components in it but there was some things that needed to be added.

Then you have to add the cost of the PCB itself, as well as the control panel, the cab, and so on. I'm guessing around $1500 .. .which is only a couple hundred more than a L'il Phatty to put some context on this.

I'm sure Muffwiggler member "zthee" will have a more accurate presentation of projected cost. I'm just an interested lurker, I owned an ARP 2600 in the 80's ... totally pristine unit .... sold it for ... ready? ... $350. They sell for anywhere from $8,000 to $10,000 these days .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARP-2600-w-3604-Keyboard-/271132154409?pt=Keyb oards_MIDI&hash=item3f20bc5a29#ht_4644wt_1030

And some of them are pretty crappy!
Rex Coil 7
If this plays out properly, zthee may become to ARP enthusaists what Roger Arrick has become to Moog modular enthusiasts.

Said another way zthee could become the "dot com" of ARP modulars/semi-modulars.

GO zthee, GO!

ZTHEE SlayerBadger! ZTHEE SlayerBadger! ZTHEE SlayerBadger! ZTHEE SlayerBadger! ZTHEE SlayerBadger! ZTHEE SlayerBadger! .................................
zthee
southphillysynths wrote:
When you say pre-built, how much will already be done?


Prewired, not prebuilt. On the original you had to wire all the outputs/inputs to the respective jacks. Now the jacks are board mounted and the signals go where they should.

So you'll get a PCB, a panel from me and bags of components from some place else. Nothing will be pre soldered!
Microscopial
Did somebody say case w00t
loydb
If you'll send me the dimensions of the case, I'll take a look at it. I now have access to a decent sized CNC shopbot via AS220 Labs, so it might be possible to cut the whole thing out, drill it for connectors, and then ship it flat as a kit to be assembled (DIY Ikea essentially). Flat shipping will be *much* cheaper and have a *much* better chance of arriving alive.

I don't think I'd have any interest in shipping actual assembled cases, the packing is a nightmare.

If nothing else, I could at least generate and share the CNC files.
astroschnautzer
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
astroschnautzer wrote:
Btw, any even rough cost estimate for this project?
I was lurking in the original thread before ... it seems like it will be roughly $1k plus your time (after all it is a DIY project). I think I remember hearing zthee say that the mouser package he'd set up had about $300 worth of components in it but there was some things that needed to be added.

Then you have to add the cost of the PCB itself, as well as the control panel, the cab, and so on. I'm guessing around $1500 .. .which is only a couple hundred more than a L'il Phatty to put some context on this.

I'm sure Muffwiggler member "zthee" will have a more accurate presentation of projected cost. I'm just an interested lurker, I owned an ARP 2600 in the 80's ... totally pristine unit .... sold it for ... ready? ... $350. They sell for anywhere from $8,000 to $10,000 these days .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARP-2600-w-3604-Keyboard-/271132154409?pt=Keyb oards_MIDI&hash=item3f20bc5a29#ht_4644wt_1030

And some of them are pretty crappy!
that sounds very reasonable
Microscopial
Sorry dudes if you do need a case it will only be built by me not flat packed. Sounds like a great idea though for flat packed stuff, what wood options will you offer
loydb
Microscopial wrote:
Sorry dudes if you do need a case it will only be built by me not flat packed. Sounds like a great idea though for flat packed stuff, what wood options will you offer


I didn't even realize you were doing finished cases, props, I hate shipping casework. As far as wood, I'd want to see the dimensions first, and I'd want to see how this Shopbot treats good plywood. If you could get 2 cases out of a sheet for 4'x8' 3/4" walnut plywood, that would be ideal. It would be easy enough to rip some thin walnut strips to be used to cover the plywood endgrain.

If the plywood tears out too much, then the sky becomes the limit on what woods could be used, and what the narrowest width I could get away with without having to do a lot of edge joining. What is the depth going to be?
mOBiTh
one of my mates has a 2600 (the original wooden cased one) plus an enhanced keyboard.

i'm seriously considering threatening to show his wife the photos of his stag do and blackmailing it off him hihi
loydb
mOBiTh wrote:
i'm seriously considering threatening to show his wife the photos of his stag do and blackmailing it off him hihi


A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

Tell him it's just business.
valis
fantastic project. It's great to see your creations and art, zthee I'm going to try my hardest not to sign up for this project. I have way too many projects. Still...

Best of luck. w00t
mOBiTh
im going to build at least two
mckenic
Microscopial wrote:
Did somebody say case w00t


For this on our side of the pond - I'll want one please Ross!!!

thumbs up
rasseru
MY ASS IS BLEEDING


got the case covered. following this like a hawk
chaosium
Specific case dimensions to provide a local shop would be awesome.
Peake
What's all this then eek! SlayerBadger!
Luap
Wait! I've not finished my VCS3 clone yet!
hihi
(I just might be very interested still though!)
leeski
i need another me so lets clone applause
decaying.sine
What the what? This is fun!
oberkorn
Quote:
Did somebody say case
you said it
moog55
zthee - thanks for organizing this. if you need some help with random tasks associated with this project, just let me know. i'm willing to jump in at any level so you can have me chase down this-or-that so you can focus on the real work.

oh, and i'm in it to build 3! (2 being gifts).


one other question: don't recall this being discussed in the old thread, but since the feature set is already locked, it can lead to discussions around the aesthetics of the project. specifically, will there be choices around the panel colors a la gray/white vs black/orange, etc. definitely not a big deal at this stage, but just curious.

there are a few folks that have offered up case-building services, but given the concerns around shipping costs, i will likely just take the specs/dimensions and have the wood pieces cut, but build it myself along with doing the tolex on the outside. how hard could it be?
Smugrik
Just registered to the interest list applause
HueMonContact
Im totally interested in building one of these! This is one of the holy grail synths I've always wanted but was fairly certain I would not he able to acquire unless I lucked up and found one for sale when I actually have the money... Anyway let me stop babbling. I'm in and would love to build one.
I'll subscribe to the list on ya site. This is going to be fun!
Sorry for the long drunk message.
toppobrillo
interested depending on cost!
numan7
SlayerBadger! screaming goo yo w00t so psyched to see this happening! i'm definitely in for building at least one! Guinness ftw! Rockin' Banana!

cheers
cleaninglady
something wonderful It's beautiful ! Amazing work Zthee !!

Count me in ! There goes 2014...
Barcode
This is freaking awesome! I totally want in! thumbs up
lessavyfav
I'm in! Email sent!
widdly
This is great motivation to clear my (considerable) diy backlog. I've got a 49 keybed I'm going to pair with this. That plus the built in speakers and reverb would make a great standalone system. Excited!
PF
cleaninglady wrote:


Count me in ! There goes 2014...


And 2015......
monstrinho
The 2600 is the thing I think I most regret selling out of everything I've ever owned. So yeah, count me in in a big way.
gddfp
It'll need an assistant.



Mr. Green
moog55
gddfp wrote:
It'll need an assistant.



Mr. Green



has there ever been a DIY arp sequencer clone project?
aladan
moog55 wrote:
gddfp wrote:
It'll need an assistant.



Mr. Green



has there ever been a DIY arp sequencer clone project?


SlayerBadger! we're not worthy
I think I just died and went to Muffs... oh, wait...
gddfp
moog55 wrote:
gddfp wrote:
It'll need an assistant.

has there ever been a DIY arp sequencer clone project?

Never seen one.
If there was one, I'd jump all over it. Best analog hardware sequencer I ever used...
beyourdog
I think it is a brilliant IDEA and conception to avoid the wiring experience to people...will make it much more simple and quick, I remember looking at my 2600 (when I had it and though, good, the wiring in that...)...
moog55
gddfp wrote:
moog55 wrote:
gddfp wrote:
It'll need an assistant.

has there ever been a DIY arp sequencer clone project?

Never seen one.
If there was one, I'd jump all over it. Best analog hardware sequencer I ever used...


i never had the 1613 sequencer, but always wanted one. the closest thing i had was a roland 104 sequencer (meh) that i promptly traded + $1500 for a synthi aks, but i digress...

i think a clone 1613 sequencer project running in parallel to zthee's 2600 clone would would make a killer set up. i don't want to distract zthee away from the 2600, so i may investigate spinning up a 1613 clone and see what's needed and if all parts are still readily available. we can go from there..
Rex Coil 7
FOUR PAGES on the first day zthee ....

I'd say it was a great idea to repost this, wouldn't you?
gddfp
moog55 wrote:
gddfp wrote:
moog55 wrote:
gddfp wrote:
It'll need an assistant.

has there ever been a DIY arp sequencer clone project?

Never seen one.
If there was one, I'd jump all over it. Best analog hardware sequencer I ever used...


i never had the 1613 sequencer, but always wanted one. the closest thing i had was a roland 104 sequencer (meh) that i promptly traded + $1500 for a synthi aks, but i digress...

i think a clone 1613 sequencer project running in parallel to zthee's 2600 clone would would make a killer set up. i don't want to distract zthee away from the 2600, so i may investigate spinning up a 1613 clone and see what's needed and if all parts are still readily available. we can go from there..


{not trying to hijack Zthee's thread, so... quickly}

1601's schematics and even a board trace are floating through the internets.
Component-wise the 1601 uses fairly modern stuff: 3904/6's (1 pair matched), a whole bunch of 4xxx logic, some CA3086's, too many 1458's, and some picky-value resistors. All standard things, at first sight. Not sure about the MC14528CP.
I ain't no expert, but apart from the complex logic (as sequencers tgo), this seems relatively easy.
xpander
i am so in.

Fnord
You. I like you!!
rjp2
i'm in on this too, thanks for making this project thumbs up

And i agree, i would love to a 1601 clone.
I'd take two.
zthee
I could see myself making a 1601 after the TTSH. Love seqeuncers!
Bakeneko
me too + 1 for 1601
regards
cereyanlimusiki
I am looking forward to it.
nickster
zthee wrote:
I could see myself making a 1601 after the TTSH. Love seqeuncers!


The Chewbacca Defense

MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING
nanners
monstrinho
I'm not sure how other people feel about this, but personally I am going to want to cover the case in grey Tolex. I hope any case design will allow a few mm extra space to account for this. The idea of a 2600 in a wood cabinet really just doesn't work for me. Also, if the idea is to cover it in Tolex, it would allow for the use of lighter materials (possibly sone kind of strong, durable polymer). I really like the idea of a CNC cut, flat shipped case (or simply open-sourced CNC files so people could have it done locally).
Randy
I don't really care too much what it looks like as long as it sounds good. I'm trying to figure out how I could cut the front panel myself, that is really the only part that I need to be functional. The rest I can whip up myself.

I really have no desire to end up with something that looks like a 2600.

Randy
Pfurmel
monstrinho wrote:
I am going to want to cover the case in grey Tolex. I hope any case design will allow a few mm extra space to account for this. The idea of a 2600 in a wood cabinet really just doesn't work for me. Also, if the idea is to cover it in Tolex, it would allow for the use of lighter materials (possibly sone kind of strong, durable polymer). I really like the idea of a CNC cut, flat shipped case (or simply open-sourced CNC files so people could have it done locally).


I agree, this would be the perfect finish(excuse the pun!) for one of the most promising DIY projects I have seen. As you said, it opens up a wide range of options for the case material. I don't have any experience in these materials so hopefully someone can chime in with expert advice.
sduck
Since zthee's project is for a panel and pcb set, cases are up to others to figure out, and should probably be in a separate thread. Maybe. What do I know?
Pfurmel
Maybe, there is already 2 threads with this project so a third can't hurt hihi
zthee
I've made the plans for the case in Sketchup, and I can translate it to 2D
drawings as well.

But to be honest, it's a bit too early to be planning cases! Since I haven't even got the prototype up and running, and we're 6 months away from seeing anything shipping.

Though with that said - I'd like mine with toolex!
Jarno
Wise words, also agree with separating this thread from threads about building a case.

If needed/ wanted I can model the case in 3d and make a set of drawings for it (my dayjob is mechanical engineering). But we'll have to agree on common set of specs AND let's first wait until the design is a bit more mature.

But it's truly is going to be a great project, fantastic. Particularly enthusiastic about the lack of wiring. thumbs up
Mongo1
I'm really excited about this - way cool!
Gary
gwaidan
nice!
msprigings
this is incredible!
Vic
Hi,

This is a reason to register and jump on the train ;-)
Incredible!! suitable words for shure applause

Send my email thru the thehumancomparator site link.

3 to 4 pieces for us (local soldering club here in the Flanders, Belgium)


brgds,

Vic
kbo
SlayerBadger! we're not worthy
NS4W
Kool!
ddoyen
w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t
Rigo
Vic wrote:
Hi,

This is a reason to register and jump on the train ;-)
Incredible!! suitable words for shure applause

Send my email thru the thehumancomparator site link.

3 to 4 pieces for us (local soldering club here in the Flanders, Belgium)


brgds,

Vic

Vic is here hihi

By the way, where is your soldering club ? Might be useful some day hmmm.....
beautyofdecay_
Interested!
krisp14u
The day I tell a fellow builder I have done taking on new DIY projects I have to go back on my word

Im in thumbs up
astroschnautzer
astroschnautzer
........doublepost.........
astroschnautzer
Found a small error on the front panel, on the voltage processors there is nr 8 instead of 7 on the env follower input...
FrankV
What an amazing project! I'm definitely in for one... applause

F
moogah
astroschnautzer wrote:


hell to the fuck yes. if we can get something that has the kind of character in this I will be so happy.
raisinbag
This is way cool. Posting so I can easily find it again in the future.
limpmeat
6 months away? sweet, should be able to clear some other projects out of the way by then.
netpusher
wowoweee!!!!
zthee
astroschnautzer wrote:
Found a small error on the front panel, on the voltage processors there is nr 8 instead of 7 on the env follower input...


It says so on the original. Hence I've kept it.
astroschnautzer
zthee wrote:
astroschnautzer wrote:
Found a small error on the front panel, on the voltage processors there is nr 8 instead of 7 on the env follower input...


It says so on the original. Hence I've kept it.
I checked it on another pic because I know you are very precice on details and on another pic it was labeled 7, just thought you might have missed it but seemingly not so thumbs up
Rex Coil 7
astroschnautzer wrote:
zthee wrote:
astroschnautzer wrote:
Found a small error on the front panel, on the voltage processors there is nr 8 instead of 7 on the env follower input...


It says so on the original. Hence I've kept it.
I checked it on another pic because I know you are very precice on details and on another pic it was labeled 7, just thought you might have missed it but seemingly not so thumbs up


(zthee) "fuck with me.... yea, don't even."

Dude's done his homework. thumbs up
lucid
Hi zthee
woah
big thumbs up
one for me + waiting for sequencer as well
sicpaul
Brilliant project thumbs up .... I'm in as well.

... loving sequencers too hihi
ucacjbs
While I doubt I could justify the cost of doing this for myself waah , I absolutely applaud the ambition of the project. Simply fantastic! applause nanners
astroschnautzer
Do you zthee have an idea on how you're going to implement the kbd input since there is no keyboard probably going to be made? A few cv/gates on the back or something?
Rex Coil 7
astroschnautzer wrote:
Do you zthee have an idea on how you're going to implement the kbd input since there is no keyboard probably going to be made? A few cv/gates on the back or something?
Hmm .. great question. Will it just be left up to an outboard midi-cv? IE; Kenton?
Jarno
Stuff a midi implant somewhere?
Rex Coil 7
Jarno wrote:
Stuff a midi implant somewhere?
Well, there are a trazillion ~what ifs~ on this. My guess is that as true-to-original-form as zthee has insisted on staying aligned with he'll probably leave the 1v/oct cv input up to the user. If not, everyone would have a list of dothisdothats, most of which would not align with much in common with one another. He's obviously left NOTHING up to ~committee of synth nation~ and from what I can tell has no intentions of submitting a call-out to gather opinions on much of anything (which I applaud the hell out of, to be honest).

One thing I do not think zthee has done at any juncture is "stuff" anything anywhere on this creation. It seems everything was deeply thought through prior to implementation.

There are plenty of aftermarket midi-cv solutions out there at present, I see no reason to address it within the TTSH design.
seanpark
Most exciting synth-thing this year!
monstrinho
Rex Coil 7 wrote:


There are plenty of aftermarket midi-cv solutions out there at present, I see no reason to address it within the TTSH design.


+1

And I imagine that there will be enough space inside to put a MIDI to CV board if you want to. No reason to make the project more complex/expensive. Especially since this is something so easily added if you feel you need it.
zthee
astroschnautzer wrote:
Do you zthee have an idea on how you're going to implement the kbd input since there is no keyboard probably going to be made? A few cv/gates on the back or something?


There is pads on the board for the keyboard connector (I.e. CV to all 3 oscillators and then 2 pads for the trig and gate). How the user wishes to utilize them is an open question. It could be a few jacks on the back, a special connector and so on. It depends on the case I guess.

You can use the KBD CV output on the front as an input for the same stuff as well, and the trig and gate is also available from the front panel.

The circuit for the keyboard isn't strange, so that part is doable - The problem lies in the mechanical construction of the keyboard. I'd happily make the board and panel for the keyboard as well, but keys and stuff would have to be sourced from someplace else. Which makes everything a bit more complicated. IF we can solve the keys and a fitting for them, then there is no problem for me suppling the panel and PCB for it. But as with the sequencer, after the initial run of the panels has happened.
jfloftin
zthee wrote:
But as with the sequencer, after the initial run of the panels has happened.


+1 for the sequencer.
djangosfire
zthee wrote:


The circuit for the keyboard isn't strange, so that part is doable - The problem lies in the mechanical construction of the keyboard. I'd happily make the board and panel for the keyboard as well, but keys and stuff would have to be sourced from someplace else. Which makes everything a bit more complicated. IF we can solve the keys and a fitting for them, then there is no problem for me suppling the panel and PCB for it. But as with the sequencer, after the initial run of the panels has happened.



PLEASE consider making the keyboard circuit/PCB This is fun! I'd love to build a CV keyboard for mine smile
Rex Coil 7
djangosfire wrote:
zthee wrote:


The circuit for the keyboard isn't strange, so that part is doable - The problem lies in the mechanical construction of the keyboard. I'd happily make the board and panel for the keyboard as well, but keys and stuff would have to be sourced from someplace else. Which makes everything a bit more complicated. IF we can solve the keys and a fitting for them, then there is no problem for me suppling the panel and PCB for it. But as with the sequencer, after the initial run of the panels has happened.



PLEASE consider making the keyboard circuit/PCB This is fun! I'd love to build a CV keyboard for mine smile
If you do .. PLEASE use a FATAR keybed .... they make THE best feeling weighted synth keybed I have EVER used. I've been told FATAR can be very difficult to deal with, but it may be worth the effort. I use a Novation Impulse keyboard controller, it has a FATAR keybed .... outstanding touch and feel, it has velocity AND aftertouch as well! And the scale length matches my Hammonds.

Many keybeds are shorter scales, such as the Wavestation and DX-7. If you stack a WS or DX-7 on top of a Hammond the keys don't align, and with a 61 key unit the shorter scale is about a full inch shorter in total length. It just feels odd. And the action is total crap as well .... far too light and not enough pushback on the upstroke.

FATAR! thumbs up
moogah
+1 for the sequencer as well.

I'd consider a keyboard unit too.
astroschnautzer
zthee wrote:
astroschnautzer wrote:
Do you zthee have an idea on how you're going to implement the kbd input since there is no keyboard probably going to be made? A few cv/gates on the back or something?




You can use the KBD CV output on the front as an input for the same stuff as well, and the trig and gate is also available from the front panel.

So you mean the kbd cv out works as an cv input for all 3 oscs, and the trig and gate works as inputs too, if so that solves it all.
camelneck
zthee wrote:


The original 2600 is a beast, and as some people has jokingly said before it should be 86% of the size. And I agree. Hence I've made it smaller. Though not really 86%, more closely to 73% or something. It measures 60 cm x 30 cm now (About the size of a original Korg MS-20 funny enough).


This project is great news. A couple of years ago, I traded my beat-up ARP2600 for an ARP Quadra plus an ARP Odyssey, both in pristine condition, but I definitely miss it. I'll probably build this clone since it will make my collection of ARP synths complete (minus a 2500).

I do regret to hear that you scaled the size down to 73% since the controls on the 2600 were so easy to use especially when doing live performances. However, I realized that many people, including myself, have built and acquired so much gear that they are running out of space to store it all.

Maybe it won't impact performance as much as I think it will.
Rod Serling Fan Club
If you do the sequencer it would be nice if it is the same length
Rod Serling Fan Club
and style as the 2600 panel. I could see incorporating them into the same case or maybe a matching case for the sequencer, in front of the 2600.
zthee
astroschnautzer wrote:
So you mean the kbd cv out works as an cv input for all 3 oscs, and the trig and gate works as inputs too, if so that solves it all.


Yep, that's correct.
zthee
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
If you do the sequencer it would be nice if it is the same length


The original sequencer measures 22.5" x 8" according to the manual. It doesn't say if that's including the wooden ends or not. It's still a little shorter than the TTSH panel though. But I'll solve it once I get there.

Edit - Didn't do my homework. There's actually more than one ARP sequencer. I remembered only the 1601, but there's actually a 1621 and a 1623 as well. Have to dig into this...
Randy
MIDI works for me, no use making something complicated for no real reason other than tradition.

Randy
perplx
I am very much interested in this project! hyper

I was wondering if it would be legally possible to use the ARP logo on the panels, and I think it is. The original trademark 1971 has indeed lapsed:

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=72407355&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchTy pe=statusSearch

Funny enough, there is a more recent trademark in the USPTO's books. This particular trademark was registered about a year ago, it looks like it was abandoned last month, the applicant having failed to file all the paperwork. The logo is slightly different from the one in the original trademark:

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=85525434&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchTy pe=statusSearch

So the ARP trademark is available. Kickstarter projects have been started out of less...
chaosium
perplx wrote:
I was wondering if it would be legally possible to use the ARP logo on the panels, and I think it is. The original trademark 1971 has indeed lapsed:
Since the original engineers aren't involved, why not call it something else? You can add all the badges you want post-assembly smile
Peake
Alan Pearlman is still around so if you want to use the logo which is in effect his initials, you might first want to ask him wink
beyourdog
chaosium wrote:
perplx wrote:
I was wondering if it would be legally possible to use the ARP logo on the panels, and I think it is. The original trademark 1971 has indeed lapsed:
Since the original engineers aren't involved, why not call it something else? You can add all the badges you want post-assembly smile


Choose your acronym:

A R P ARP
B S Q BSQ
C T R CTR
D U S DUS
E V T EVT
F W U FWU
G X V GXV
H Y W HYW
I Z X IZX
J A Y JAY
K B Z KBZ
L C A LCA
M D B MDB
N E C NEC
O F D OFD
P G E PGE
Q H F QHF
R I G RIG
S J H SJH
T K I TKI
U L J ULJ
V M K VMK
W N L WNL
X O M XOM
Y P N YPN
Z Q O ZQO
A R P ARP
beyourdog
Just tried the same exercise it by inversing the letters order: this is a reverse ingeenering of the ARP synth, the Acronym is ACL
Would be great for Arp CLone...ACL2600 - ACL2013...

Otherwise, if you are as well a huge fan of science fiction, he could be call:

HAL2013

HAL 2600

In 2010 the suite of 2001, they re-woken HAL, we're in 2013, that is the rebirth of ARP2600...

Simple easy, no need to ask any authorisations...

P R A PRA
Q S B QSB
R T C RTC
S U D SUD
T V E TVE
U W F UWF
V X G VXG
W Y H WYH
X Z I XZI
Y A J YAJ
Z B K ZBK
A C L ACL
B D M BDM
C E N CEN
D F O DFO
E G P EGP
F H Q FHQ
G I R GIR
H J S HJS
I K T IKT
J L U JLU
K M V KMV
L N W LNW
M O X MOX
N P Y NPY
O Q Z OQZ
P R A PRA
mckenic
zthee wrote:

Edit - Didn't do my homework. There's actually more than one ARP sequencer. I remembered only the 1601, but there's actually a 1621 and a 1623 as well. Have to dig into this...


Stop posting and getting sidetracked and get back to work! hihi

I am kidding of course mate! As for the logo etc - I dont care but it would be COOL to call it /logo it something like "The Zthee-six Hundred"!!!

applause thumbs up Hug
lucid
chaosium wrote:
Since the original engineers aren't involved, why not call it something else?

Agree
And need to say that TTSH in topic name fits quite well
mystico
How about since it 73% the size of the 2600 you call it the 1898 hihi
elmegil
mystico wrote:
How about since it 73% the size of the 2600 you call it the 1898 hihi



applause
Isaiah
As I said before, I don't need another SDIY project, but I'd hate to miss out on this!
Hopefully, my backlog should be significantly reduced by September.

I'm also very interested in the sequencer.

Personally, I don't think it would feel right to have the ARP logo (or an approximation) or some cryptic inversion/revision of the acronym on the panel.
It's called the "Two Thousand Six Hundred", which I think is very tasteful and as obvious as I'd hope the panel would get in terms of names or logos.
I'd be more inclined to want Zthee's logo in a corner (like the CGS/Serge panels), than anything else.
zthee
No ARP logo on anything. This isn't an original and shouldn't be mistakable for one.

That's one of the reasons I made it a bit smaller. If possible I'd like to avoid a situation where one these pops up on Ebay pretending to be the real deal. It's more pleasant to think about this as a fun project and not falsifying history.
mystico
I am really looking forward to this beer!
Isaiah
I just look again and saw Zthee's logo in the bottom right corner thumbs up
moog55
zthee wrote:
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
If you do the sequencer it would be nice if it is the same length


The original sequencer measures 22.5" x 8" according to the manual. It doesn't say if that's including the wooden ends or not. It's still a little shorter than the TTSH panel though. But I'll solve it once I get there.

Edit - Didn't do my homework. There's actually more than one ARP sequencer. I remembered only the 1601, but there's actually a 1621 and a 1623 as well. Have to dig into this...


Plus the 1612.

My understanding is that the 1613 was the most common model in terms of number produced.
zthee
moog55 wrote:

Plus the 1612.

My understanding is that the 1613 was the most common model in terms of number produced.


This seems to be a good place for info - http://retrosynthads.blogspot.se/2011/06/arp-model-1601-sequencer-extr a-hand_16.html

I made a quick sketch yesterday, and if I make it the original size (seems to be about 22" x 9" for the MkII (Which in my opinion fits tha TTSH best in style graphically)). But 22 x 9 is huge! Feels like 73% of the panel is empty... So there's a lot of thinking to be done on this.
drox
very keen on seeing / hearing some demo's when they are avaliable smile
astroschnautzer
zthee wrote:
moog55 wrote:

Plus the 1612.

My understanding is that the 1613 was the most common model in terms of number produced.


This seems to be a good place for info - http://retrosynthads.blogspot.se/2011/06/arp-model-1601-sequencer-extr a-hand_16.html

I made a quick sketch yesterday, and if I make it the original size (seems to be about 22" x 9" for the MkII (Which in my opinion fits tha TTSH best in style graphically)). But 22 x 9 is huge! Feels like 73% of the panel is empty... So there's a lot of thinking to be done on this.
maybe combine the sequencer and keyboard control part...(?)
zthee
astroschnautzer wrote:
maybe combine the sequencer and keyboard control part...(?)


Like an expander unit. Hmmm. It could be a solution!
olga42
Ohh, just add the ARP Quadra phaser in case there's any panel real estate left over in the sequencer/keyboard interface we're not worthy
Christopher Winkels
Some enterprising person needs to see an opportunity here and build a few units for sale to those of us who don't know which end of a soldering iron to hold.
nathanxl
Im not interested in a keyboard but a sequencer would be ideal. Especially if it was the same length that it could be clipped or sat on the synth.
Wooden handle like the blue meany would be ace and I think I could build that part myself...
No logo but the two thousand six hundred is quite nice.

Cant wait.
the bad producer
I'd happily build more than one if anyone wanted me to build theirs, I'm based in the UK though...

Also, I've been working on a clone of the 1601 sequencer for some months now, though to be honest rather aimlessly and for the fun/hell of it.
But now there seems to be a great reason to actually spend more time finishing it off!
a100user
the bad producer wrote:
I'd happily build more than one if anyone wanted me to build theirs, I'm based in the UK though...

Also, I've been working on a clone of the 1601 sequencer for some months now, though to be honest rather aimlessly and for the fun/hell of it.
But now there seems to be a great reason to actually spend more time finishing it off!


I may take you up on that.

Does anyone yet have a feel for costs of this build (not man hours just components etc)?
astroschnautzer
I could also build one or two extra if somebody wants one...
Luka
this thread is funny

the project hasn't even been spec'd and everyone is jumping at it asking for build times and costs.

i think everyone needs to take a deep breath and wait while zthee actually finishes the proto unit.
zthee
Luka wrote:
i think everyone needs to take a deep breath and wait while zthee actually finishes the proto unit.


thumbs up
a100user
Luka wrote:
this thread is funny

the project hasn't even been spec'd and everyone is jumping at it asking for build times and costs.

i think everyone needs to take a deep breath and wait while zthee actually finishes the proto unit.


Fair point grin
Christopher Winkels
Luka wrote:
this thread is funny

the project hasn't even been spec'd and everyone is jumping at it asking for build times and costs.

i think everyone needs to take a deep breath and wait while zthee actually finishes the proto unit.


"I got it used from the navy. You can use it to flash-fry a buffalo in 40 seconds."

"40 seconds? But I want it now!"
Monobass
Luka wrote:
i think everyone needs to take a deep breath and wait while zthee actually finishes the proto unit.


yup smile
elmegil
I'm in the US and also willing to build to suit; this is outside my own personal budget, but I would dig the opportunity to build one for someone else.
zthee
For all the people who have a business building to other people - I'd happily put a list of all you guys on the website. So if people who'd like one but can't build themselves can find someone who can help them.
moogah
A combined sequencer and keyboard expander would be the nuts!
Thaknar
Christopher Winkels wrote:
Luka wrote:
this thread is funny

the project hasn't even been spec'd and everyone is jumping at it asking for build times and costs.

i think everyone needs to take a deep breath and wait while zthee actually finishes the proto unit.


"I got it used from the navy. You can use it to flash-fry a buffalo in 40 seconds."

"40 seconds? But I want it now!"


classic simpsons quote! thumbs up

Glad to hear that there are people in the EU willing to build units for us non DIY-skilled smile I love this community!
thebot
zthee wrote:
No ARP logo on anything. This isn't an original and shouldn't be mistakable for one.

That's one of the reasons I made it a bit smaller. If possible I'd like to avoid a situation where one these pops up on Ebay pretending to be the real deal. It's more pleasant to think about this as a fun project and not falsifying history.


I really like this sentiment.
leeski
the bad producer wrote:

I've been working on a clone of the 1601 sequencer
!


can you make it smaller too
Rex Coil 7
a100user wrote:
the bad producer wrote:
I'd happily build more than one if anyone wanted me to build theirs, I'm based in the UK though...

Also, I've been working on a clone of the 1601 sequencer for some months now, though to be honest rather aimlessly and for the fun/hell of it.
But now there seems to be a great reason to actually spend more time finishing it off!


I may take you up on that.

Does anyone yet have a feel for costs of this build (not man hours just components etc)?
As has been pointed out a number of times, roughly $1k to $1.5k depending on how much is spent on cabinetry and other niceties.
seanpark
Christopher Winkels wrote:
Some enterprising person needs to see an opportunity here and build a few units for sale to those of us who don't know which end of a soldering iron to hold.


I would be stoked to build an extra.
Rex Coil 7
Luka wrote:
this thread is funny

the project hasn't even been spec'd and everyone is jumping at it asking for build times and costs.

i think everyone needs to take a deep breath and wait while zthee actually finishes the proto unit.


Shees! No kidding! He's not even breathed an utterance about any type of sequencer, and there's all of these "I'm in for the sequencer" posts.

hmmm.....

"Hello everyone. I'm offering an analogue synth kit that is not even prototyped yet, and will be a semi-DIY product when finished."

"So how much money is the sequencer and when can I buy the sequencer?"

"Um .... well .. I'm offering an analogue synth kit that is not even prototyped yet, and will be a semi-DIY product when finished."

"Yea yea, whatever ..... So how much money is the sequencer and when can I buy the sequencer?"

"I'm not making a sequencer. I'm offering an analogue synth kit that is not even prototyped yet, I haven't even finished the synth kit yet, and will be a semi-DIY product when finished."

"Wow, that's just great ..... So how much money is the sequencer and when can I buy the sequencer?"

"I'm still working on getting the synth prototype ready for testing, I still have to test the production boards after I construct a prototype, and it won't be a fully built product when I am ready to sell it, it will be a DIY kit."

"So how much money is the sequencer and when can I buy the sequencer?"

WTF people! very frustrating

I'm sure zthee appreciates the sentiment, but let's at least let him finish project "A" before we go putting pressure on him for project "B". And don't we think it might be polite to allow HIM to decide if he's even going to offer "B"? I'd rather see him devote 100% of his efforts to refining the TTSH to a razor's edge than have him divide his attentions to designing something he hasn't even offered.

"Back you dogs, give him room to turn" (ELP "Pirates").
moogah
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Luka wrote:
this thread is funny

the project hasn't even been spec'd and everyone is jumping at it asking for build times and costs.

i think everyone needs to take a deep breath and wait while zthee actually finishes the proto unit.


Shees! No kidding! He's not even breathed an utterance about any type of sequencer, and there's all of these "I'm in for the sequencer" posts.

hmmm.....

"Hello everyone. I'm offering an analogue synth kit that is not even prototyped yet, and will be a semi-DIY product when finished."

"So how much money is the sequencer and when can I buy the sequencer?"

"Um .... well .. I'm offering an analogue synth kit that is not even prototyped yet, and will be a semi-DIY product when finished."

"Yea yea, whatever ..... So how much money is the sequencer and when can I buy the sequencer?"

"I'm not making a sequencer. I'm offering an analogue synth kit that is not even prototyped yet, I haven't even finished the synth kit yet, and will be a semi-DIY product when finished."

"Wow, that's just great ..... So how much money is the sequencer and when can I buy the sequencer?"

"I'm still working on getting the synth prototype ready for testing, I still have to test the production boards after I construct a prototype, and it won't be a fully built product when I am ready to sell it, it will be a DIY kit."

"So how much money is the sequencer and when can I buy the sequencer?"

WTF people! very frustrating

I'm sure zthee appreciates the sentiment, but let's at least let him finish project "A" before we go putting pressure on him for project "B". And don't we think it might be polite to allow HIM to decide if he's even going to offer "B"? I'd rather see him devote 100% of his efforts to refining the TTSH to a razor's edge than have him divide his attentions to designing something he hasn't even offered.

"Back you dogs, give him room to turn" (ELP "Pirates").


Admit it, you want the sequencer too applause Dead Banana hihi
sduck
So how much is the sequencer and when can I buy it?
fluxmonkey
i don't want a sequencer. please don't make one.
tojpeters
When you send my sequencer board tomorrow could you please tuck like $1000 into the envelope to fund the project?
doobedy
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
a100user wrote:
the bad producer wrote:
I'd happily build more than one if anyone wanted me to build theirs, I'm based in the UK though...

Also, I've been working on a clone of the 1601 sequencer for some months now, though to be honest rather aimlessly and for the fun/hell of it.
But now there seems to be a great reason to actually spend more time finishing it off!


I may take you up on that.

Does anyone yet have a feel for costs of this build (not man hours just components etc)?
As has been pointed out a number of times, roughly $1k to $1.5k depending on how much is spent on cabinetry and other niceties.


I see that pointed out exactly once, by you. $300 at mouser for 90% of the parts is the only real number I've seen from zthee's shopping cart, which is a) the world's most expensive place to shop, and b) no bulk discount.

And with no PCB price yet, no panel price yet, no point in guessing. Although a BOCGS panel is roughly $100, for what it's worth.

And if it was fonik, somehow the pcb would $10 hihi
gigasturtz
oh oh its wednesday the 24th..
how's the pcb lookin? twisted It's motherfucking bacon yo Rockin' Banana! It's motherfucking bacon yo Rockin' Banana! w00t!!
zthee
It's looking good.

gddfp
zthee wrote:
It's looking good.


Impressive. we're not worthy
moog55
zthee wrote:
For all the people who have a business building to other people - I'd happily put a list of all you guys on the website. So if people who'd like one but can't build themselves can find someone who can help them.


i'm already building 3 as i've stated (1 for me and the other 2 as gifts), but i'd be willing to build 2 or maybe 3 more after that for those that need a builder. it's not really a business for me, but more just helping out. thumbs up

let's just see what the demand is for a builder once you're shipping the units. if there's more demand than builders, i'll jump in.
doobedy
Wowsers.
moog55
zthee wrote:
It's looking good.


SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy
Isaiah
Rockin' Banana!
Rod Serling Fan Club
Looking good!
Jarno
Pants are growing tighter now! screaming goo yo

Huge boards! It's going to be more than Fonik's standard 10$ Mr. Green
zthee
For a reference the small boards up in the corner are 45 mm x 45 mm (approx 1.75" x 1.75").
chaosium
moog55 wrote:
i'm already building 3 as i've stated (1 for me and the other 2 as gifts), but i'd be willing to build 2 or maybe 3 more after that for those that need a builder. it's not really a business for me, but more just helping out. thumbs up

let's just see what the demand is for a builder once you're shipping the units. if there's more demand than builders, i'll jump in.
Hah, seeing as you're also in Seattle, I'm going to bug you with any questions about my build (whenever it comes to pass.)
RobotDad
Oh This so lovely. Rethinking my case plans for this summer too leave room for this.

And more Seattle builders? We may need to do a group build somewhere.
delayed
looking good.
moog55
chaosium wrote:
moog55 wrote:
i'm already building 3 as i've stated (1 for me and the other 2 as gifts), but i'd be willing to build 2 or maybe 3 more after that for those that need a builder. it's not really a business for me, but more just helping out. thumbs up

let's just see what the demand is for a builder once you're shipping the units. if there's more demand than builders, i'll jump in.
Hah, seeing as you're also in Seattle, I'm going to bug you with any questions about my build (whenever it comes to pass.)


Haha. Sounds good. I'm in the Alki Beach area. Where are you located?
moog55
RobotDad wrote:
Oh This so lovely. Rethinking my case plans for this summer too leave room for this.

And more Seattle builders? We may need to do a group build somewhere.


That sounds like a really fun idea. Let's definitely do that.
flts
original is one of my fave synths ever... i'm so in with this, hope to have the money and time in the fall.
Paradigm X
Wow, super impressive, you pcb types are bloody clever.

I hope I can afford one at the time, if i join the email list is that a commitment to buy?

Cheers
zthee
Signing up is not committing to anything. It's more of an insurance that you'll get information.
nathanxl
zthee wrote:
It's more of an insurance that you'll get information.


Have you sent any emails out over the last few weeks?
I havent received any, maybe I didnt sign up correctly...
zthee
Nothing have been sent out yet.
Paradigm X
Thanks zthee =)

Nice photography as well btw
Arnoid
Tempting smile
krisp14u
zthee wrote:
It's looking good.



Dam that's going to be fun to stuff w00t

I thought the JH vocoder was Big Wow!
loydb
I plan on getting an extra set of boards to convert into a water-ski kneeboard. Those are huge! we're not worthy
forbin
The PCB looks excellent!

Going to get the tee-shirt in anticipation!

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RETRO-SYNTH-ARP-2600-MK3-DESIGN-T-SHIRT-S-M -L-XL-XXL-/330912357120?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Pro_Audio_Synthesise rs_CV&hash=item4d0be9db00
dtonthept
Looks like an amazing project!

I've built a bunch of recording outboard gear, mainly mic preamps and compressors, it would be pretty cool to try a synth next up - especially a version of the 2600. Can't wait!
chaosium
nathanxl wrote:
Have you sent any emails out over the last few weeks?
I havent received any, maybe I didnt sign up correctly...
Wait until it's complete, I suppose?
vlk
Good god!! I don't know if I have the skill, or will have time, to do this but I'm so impressed that it exists.
Slabwax
@Moog55

I just might be one that needs a builder. I'm also in Seattle.[/s]
pre55ure
moog55 wrote:

the other 2 as gifts


eek!

Can I be your new best friend?
zthee
chaosium wrote:
nathanxl wrote:
Have you sent any emails out over the last few weeks?
I havent received any, maybe I didnt sign up correctly...
Wait until it's complete, I suppose?


Yes, I'll wait till I actually have something to report. So you probably won't hear anything until it's finished! So I would be very surprised if I sent something out before August. (Not saying that it will be finished by then, September is still the month - Just don't expect anything before that).

If you haven't received an email saying something important has happened, nothing important has happened!

I will also state important stuff in the first post as well.
chaosium
To all the Seattleites who want to assemble the project, would you want to meet up closer to assembly-time to discuss this and other Synth-DIYery at Metrix:Create Space (alternately Jigsaw Renaissance)?

I don't have time right now, but I'll probably have time to organize something by when this project gets off the ground. I figure a maker-space would be a great place to host us, and for those like myself without an EE background, they're generally staffed by engineering students when those obvious questions come up smile

PM me if you're interested and I'll create a thread in the meetups subforum.
wsy
gigasturtz wrote:
oh oh its wednesday the 24th..
how's the pcb lookin? twisted It's motherfucking bacon yo Rockin' Banana! It's motherfucking bacon yo Rockin' Banana! w00t!!


Yeah, I want in for a kit.

Tell me where to send the money, and how much. I'll go for front
panel, PCB, and parts bag. (I have a nice Weller digital iron and I'm
not afraid to use it!)

And- if you (or someone else) comes up with a source for the keyboard,
I'll go for that kitting too! I can do my own cabinetry - or have my cousin
help me out.

- Bill
Luap
wsy wrote:

Yeah, I want in for a kit.


Will there be "kits"? I thought it was just PCB and front panel.

If it is just PCB and panel then im wondering what this project is like with regards to parts sourcing. Nightmare? Easy? Tricky yet doable for a chump like me?
Im definitely interested though. The very thought of having my own 2600 is bringing on an acute case of clamminess hyper
mckenic
Im hoping we can hassle Ross for cases and Thonk for kits hihi
freeyerheel
does anyone know what the part number is for the pots and sliders?
moog55
Slabwax wrote:
@Moog55

I just might be one that needs a builder. I'm also in Seattle.[/s]



sure. hit me up when this ships. i'm going to make 3 units before i make anyone else's so subsequent builds should be pretty quick. thumbs up
moog55
pre55ure wrote:
moog55 wrote:

the other 2 as gifts


eek!

Can I be your new best friend?


ha. well these friends have done a lot for me over the years including traveling all the way to tokyo for my wedding and we've all recorded together for a long time. even though they are also huge synth nerds, they aren't on muff's so this should be a nice surprise.
moog55
chaosium wrote:
To all the Seattleites who want to assemble the project, would you want to meet up closer to assembly-time to discuss this and other Synth-DIYery at Metrix:Create Space (alternately Jigsaw Renaissance)?

I don't have time right now, but I'll probably have time to organize something by when this project gets off the ground. I figure a maker-space would be a great place to host us, and for those like myself without an EE background, they're generally staffed by engineering students when those obvious questions come up smile

PM me if you're interested and I'll create a thread in the meetups subforum.


i'm not familiar with Metrix/Jigsaw Renaissance, but i'm definitely open to the idea. sounds like it would be fun.
synchromesh
moog55 wrote:
[...] though they are also huge synth nerds, they aren't on muff's [...]


Wow, I didn't know you could be a huge synth nerd and not be on this forum. Mr. Green

I wonder what a version of the Geek Code for synth nerds would look like? hmmm.....
Low-Gain
I'm very interested, but I'm not going to buy in or anything if it's going to take 1-2 years to get something delivered. Just say'n. This project can't turn into a best of cgs panel project where we sit around waiting for ever.

IF things are priced well and ship quickly I'm totally in for a couple/few.

The company i use for my panels would be very good for this project.
zthee
Low-Gain wrote:
I'm very interested, but I'm not going to buy in or anything if it's going to take 1-2 years to get something delivered.


The big challenge for this project is not getting the module to work. Cause that I know I can do. The hard part is getting the logistics behind it working, and that's the main reason I've said September as a deadline. So I can work out all those bits before I say I'm good to go.

I'd rather see that time before people start ordering stuff, than after...
Low-Gain
zthee wrote:
Low-Gain wrote:
I'm very interested, but I'm not going to buy in or anything if it's going to take 1-2 years to get something delivered.


The big challenge for this project is not getting the module to work. Cause that I know I can do. The hard part is getting the logistics behind it working, and that's the main reason I've said September as a deadline. So I can work out all those bits before I say I'm good to go.

I'd rather see that time before people start ordering stuff, than after...


You're a good man! smile
Can't wait to see this project move forward!
I'm in for a few of these kits for sure.
gigasturtz
thanks for the pcb pics! Looking forward to hearing updates about your build progress.
fluxmonkey
zthee is very generous to put this together and sharing the fruits of his labors with us. i'm confident he'll do a quality job as always. i think we need to recognize that this is a labor of love, it will take as long as it takes, and we need to be as generous w/ our patience and and understanding as zthee is being w/ his talents.

i'm sometimes embarrassed for folks who jump on offers like this and start making demands in terms of features, or schedules, or whatever. everyone who does these projects are hobbiests like us, and there's a boatload of un-fun work involved both on the technical side and w/ logistics etc... on top of which "shit happens" outside of anyone's control. the prices for all this stuff is break-even at best. in the commercial world, companies can absorb a loss out of the profits... for us amatures, it's bread off our family's table. be understanding.

bottom line: this is the golden age of synth diy, have a little gratitude. if you're expecting amazon speed service and dedicated 24-7 tech support, don't participate. better yet, design it yourself and peddle your wares... it's not as easy as it seems.

thanks zthee for even attempting this, and best of luck

b
elmegil
applause
RadekTymecki
this shit kicks ass! cant wait for more!
withakay
Everytime I go away for a week there is something epic going on up in here!

This looks very, very impressive!
zthee
synaptech
woah *drool*
nickster
Beautiful! Thanks for sharing the PCB pics. I for one think you are doing an amazing job. How very lucky we all are that you have decided to dedicate so much of your own valuable time to this special project. Two thousand and six hundred thank yous from Söder we're not worthy
doobedy
So you made this PCB up from the 2600 service manual schematics, and this is the maiden voyage? That's exciting. Good luck!
spneca
Looks great! I am in for one set.
raisinbag
Hey, just by chance, I am working on a single Vco module, what are you using in place of the 5910? They are unobtanium.
10011001
i would like someone to build me one



this is so cool
themanthatwasused
10011001
Refer to this post a few pages down:
zthee wrote:
For all the people who have a business building to other people - I'd happily put a list of all you guys on the website. So if people who'd like one but can't build themselves can find someone who can help them.
mDang
zthee is the man !
thanks for sharing this porject !
astroschnautzer
That is looking sooo nice!!
goab
Still psyched. And happy to see that this is a few months away giving me a fair chance of scraping together the cash...
RadekTymecki
i also can build few for others there is no problem. i'm located in poland/netherlands smile
wsy
That looks absolutely STUNNING!

I'm definitely in.

Just say where to send the money, and how much for whatever level of
kit you want to make (I'd be fine for PCB and panel, and if you sell
a bag of parts that's great, and if not, a Mouser BOM is just fine too)

Again, HUGE thanks for bringing the rest of us a chance to actually have
one of these classics in our own studios.

- Bill
thispoison
Looks great - congrats and thanks on undertaking and sharing this (ad)venture.

Not surprised there is so much interest in it. applause
E.A.S.
raisinbag wrote:
Hey, just by chance, I am working on a single Vco module, what are you using in place of the 5910? They are unobtanium.


Hey Dave,

I found the reference to the replacement I was talking about via PM,

It was the great Tim Servo who mentioned the possibility of using the 2n5771 in place of the 5910, When I did that run of 4027-1 boards I bought some 5771's but never tried them because I had a stash of 5910's. Anyways, Here is the post on Electo music that Tim mentions the the replacement...

Quote:
One POSSIBLE sub (looks like it should work on paper but I have not tried this yet), is a 2N5771. They're very close, although the 5771 won't carry quite as much current (IIRC, I don't have the spec sheet in front of me at the moment).

Don't tell anyone though. This was the result of a lot of research.

Oh, wait...



Tim (possible sub) Servo


LINK


-Mike
moog55
zthee wrote:


a thing of beauty, zthee. applause
raisinbag
Thanks Mike, tomorrow I am going to visit my fave place for strange and rare parts, I hope they will have some 5771's. (maybe a 5910, but I doubt it).

E.A.S. wrote:
raisinbag wrote:
Hey, just by chance, I am working on a single Vco module, what are you using in place of the 5910? They are unobtanium.


Hey Dave,

I found the reference to the replacement I was talking about via PM,

It was the great Tim Servo who mentioned the possibility of using the 2n5771 in place of the 5910, When I did that run of 4027-1 boards I bought some 5771's but never tried them because I had a stash of 5910's. Anyways, Here is the post on Electo music that Tim mentions the the replacement...

Quote:
One POSSIBLE sub (looks like it should work on paper but I have not tried this yet), is a 2N5771. They're very close, although the 5771 won't carry quite as much current (IIRC, I don't have the spec sheet in front of me at the moment).

Don't tell anyone though. This was the result of a lot of research.

Oh, wait...



Tim (possible sub) Servo


LINK


-Mike
qp
finally signed up here and decided to stop lurking just to say how awesome this is! Totally in for one, yo!
zthee
raisinbag wrote:
Thanks Mike, tomorrow I am going to visit my fave place for strange and rare parts, I hope they will have some 5771's. (maybe a 5910, but I doubt it).


I'm using 2N4125 - Available at Mouser.
raisinbag
WOOT!!!! Thanks zthee, I can grab those at the "local" hobby store. Thanks! I will have to suffice with my single 4027-1 vco module (thanks to Mike) until this crazy project becomes available and I sell a body part to find it. I love the lighted sliders by the way, that is pretty sick.
E.A.S.
zthee wrote:
raisinbag wrote:
Thanks Mike, tomorrow I am going to visit my fave place for strange and rare parts, I hope they will have some 5771's. (maybe a 5910, but I doubt it).


I'm using 2N4125 - Available at Mouser.


Word!

Just noticed they are "end of life" though. But Id imagine the 1200+ they have in stock would be plenty for our 2600 needs!

(just noticed at mouser the 5771's I mentioned are now "obsolete" d'oh! )

That said, Im sure there are plenty of other pnps that spec out well for this part.

BTW did I mention how excited I am about this project?! MY ASS IS BLEEDING

-M
Peake
2N5910 elude my normal sources (did find them at american semi for $7.91 each), but PN5910 are cheap and available in mass quantities from this good US seller:

http://www.wellgainelectronics.com/nscpn5910ultrahispeedswitchpnptrans istor.aspx

NSC PN5910 ULTRA HI SPEED SWITCH PNP TRANSISTOR TO-92
Date Code: 85+
Condition: New
HUGE DISCOUNT PRICE FOR LARGE QTY!! PLEASE CALL FOR MORE DETAIL.

Manufacturer: NSC(National Semiconductor)
Manufacturer Part No: PN5910

EZ Price (ea.): $1.65

Quantity Amount
10 to 19 $1.48
20 to 49 $1.20
50 to 99 $1.00
100 to 199 $0.89
200 to 499 $0.68

You'll have to check the pinout to see if it aligns with what has been specified on the PCB.

Someone start a group buy SlayerBadger!
delayed
how many of these are needed per machine?
knittingram
so excited to build this beast. Will be my biggest diy undertaking to date but I will never own an original (though I cut my teeth on one) so I need to do this for sure.

Thanks You Zthee! You are making dreams come true.
Peake
delayed wrote:
how many of these are needed per machine?


The schemos appear to indicate three (one per oscillator?) I honestly don't know. I'm not an ARP expert by any means, but I love that this project is happening and when I saw that one of the components was rare, I set out to see if any could be found. Hopefully the PN version is fully compatible. My best to the project!
zthee
delayed wrote:
how many of these are needed per machine?


Only three.

I've got the 3 oscillators working, the filter (partially) and the ring modulator is working as well. Haven't tested the preamp or envelope follower yet.

Isaiah
That was quick!

This really is a fantastic project.
Thanks for deciding to make this available Rockin' Banana!
zthee
Isaiah wrote:
That was quick!


It's actually a quite easy build I have to say. Building a module only takes one to two hours or so. And since there is no wiring it's super easy to test the functions.

I've tested the preamp and envelope follower now, and they work as they should. Fun times!
DruidTek


Is the color scheme of your panel going to be a black background with orange lines/boxes and white text just like the original? If so, those orange LED sliders are gonna look damn sexy!!
quanty37
Totally awesome, I'd really love to build one if I have the money when the project is ready.
beautyofdecay_
Excellent work! That looks great.
Cannot wait to start building one 8_)
gddfp
Are the slider LEDs lit all the time, or do they react in one way or another to the slider's value ?

For example: Off when resistance = zero... Which could be useful in a darker live environment, to see whether a parameter is set (more than zero, or not-centered).

If there's no correlation to the slider's value, then they only serve a decorative purpose, isn't it ?
tailwagger
Its a good day in the DIY synth builders world.... It's peanut butter jelly time!
leeski
wow you've moved along nicely with this project, i can't wait to hear it.
applause
Isaiah
gddfp wrote:
Are the slider LEDs lit all the time, or do they react in one way or another to the slider's value ?

For example: Off when resistance = zero... Which could be useful in a darker live environment, to see whether a parameter is set (more than zero, or not-centered).

If there's no correlation to the slider's value, then they only serve a decorative purpose, isn't it ?


I asked a similar question in the previous thread.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1118789&highlight=le d#1118789

I think in a dark live environment, having the LEDs lit all the time would actually help.
The sliders give a very graphic representation of where the controls are set, the LEDs make the settings easier to read in dim light.
If the LEDs vary in brightness depending on setting, they only serve to show the same information that the slider itself does (the Rate slider being the exception, as detailed in the link above).
fonik
i am glad to be on the email list for this awesome project 8_)
gddfp
Isaiah wrote:
gddfp wrote:
Are the slider LEDs lit all the time, or do they react in one way or another to the slider's value ?

For example: Off when resistance = zero... Which could be useful in a darker live environment, to see whether a parameter is set (more than zero, or not-centered).

If there's no correlation to the slider's value, then they only serve a decorative purpose, isn't it ?

I asked a similar question in the previous thread.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1118789&highlight=le d#1118789

Oh, ok, sorry.

Isaiah wrote:
I think in a dark live environment, having the LEDs lit all the time would actually help.

Yes, sure. But I think lit sliders would help even more by not being lit when "off". That way differentiating between "used" and not-used" parameters would only take a quick glimpse.

Isaiah wrote:
The sliders give a very graphic representation of where the controls are set, the LEDs make the settings easier to read in dim light. If the LEDs vary in brightness depending on setting, they only serve to show the same information that the slider itself does (the Rate slider being the exception, as detailed in the link above).

When in a dim environment, AND having old-age mediocre sight, black slider caps on a black panel can hardly be seen, certainly in a stressful live-moment. So, imho, lit/non-lit sliders actually add to the functionality.

But, it's not that important [to me]. I was just curious.
zthee
The reason I haven't put any use of the sliders (other than decoration) is because I worry about side effects. LEDs draw a lot of current, and to have 56 LEDs all flashing at the same time could potentially cause some trouble. That's 56 x 20mA, which would be a bit over 1100mA. Depending on the PSU, if it's supposed to see over 1A going in and out, could affect the other modules as well - And as we use the voltage from the PSU as a reference for the oscillators, it seems preferable to have it as stable as possible.

Now there is probably a lot of ways to deal with this. Decoupling, separate power supplies and so on. But I prefer to focus on the machine and not on the bells and whistles.
Slabwax
moog55 wrote:
Slabwax wrote:
@Moog55

I just might be one that needs a builder. I'm also in Seattle.[/s]



sure. hit me up when this ships. i'm going to make 3 units before i make anyone else's so subsequent builds should be pretty quick. thumbs up


Thanks!
gwaidan
gddfp wrote:
Are the slider LEDs lit all the time, or do they react in one way or another to the slider's value ?

For example: Off when resistance = zero... Which could be useful in a darker live environment, to see whether a parameter is set (more than zero, or not-centered).

If there's no correlation to the slider's value, then they only serve a decorative purpose, isn't it ?


As well as what Zthee said about power draw, you would also need driver circuitry for each LED, which would complicate the build...
gddfp
gwaidan wrote:
gddfp wrote:
Are the slider LEDs lit all the time, or do they react in one way or another to the slider's value ?

For example: Off when resistance = zero... Which could be useful in a darker live environment, to see whether a parameter is set (more than zero, or not-centered).

If there's no correlation to the slider's value, then they only serve a decorative purpose, isn't it ?


As well as what Zthee said about power draw, you would also need driver circuitry for each LED, which would complicate the build...

I am fully aware of that.

I'm getting the feeling I have been misunderstood here, or perhaps I expressed myself wrongly...

I was just wondering about the usefulness of the LEDs if they do indeed serve no purpose but decoration (there was a possible chance of Zthee having added a tranny and two resistors per slider). If that is the case -- and so it seems it is -- then I won't be using them since I'd rather see this build adhering to the original as close as possible. Plus, without blinkensliders, I can use a smaller PSU, just like the original. Cheaper too.

Never did I miss LEDs on my 2600's, though one for the Clock Rate would have been welcome. That said, I might use a LED slider just for that. Adding a few components, off-board or something, is easy, and most likely it won't affect anything since a LED on coincides with a clock high.
Rod Serling Fan Club
gddfp, your questions were already addressed in this or the other thread. Paraphrasing here: he chose those sliders because they are easily available. Only the LFO slider has and kind of indication. You can put caps on them if you don't dig the led thing. So do what you want. The LEDs look great IMHO.
zthee
gddfp wrote:
That said, I might use a LED slider just for that. Adding a few components, off-board or something, is easy, and most likely it won't affect anything since a LED on coincides with a clock high.


No need to add components off board. As it's already there.
beyourdog
zthee wrote:
delayed wrote:
how many of these are needed per machine?


Only three.

I've got the 3 oscillators working, the filter (partially) and the ring modulator is working as well. Haven't tested the preamp or envelope follower yet.



For whoever opened an ARP2600 to check what is inside, your project is amazing...looking at this, I have the impression to look at a picture of a star wars design of the new death star...
When I look at your board, it is real neat, the 2600 etching was looking like manual or cutted band etching that people were sticking on the boards, the amount of cabling inside was crazy as well...when I first saw your project, i thought, well with the connection implied, i d prefer not think about doing one myself, would be as hard or long than cabling a VCS3... but it looks apparently possible even to simple DYIers like me..., well done for the internal cabling, it really pulls out a lot of troubles out of the way...
Seems to go quite quick actually...
Fidgit
2N5910 is available here, new for $4.-

http://www.electronicsurplus.com/Item/12593-1.jpg

idea
Votek_Mendo
What is the price of this kit?
Low-Gain
4 layer pcb w/ separate 5V power plane for LED's. LOL

I could care less about LED lit faders. I just like the idea of having a 2600 clone. haha
rasseru
awesome progress applause
ddoyen
Wow that build looks like it'll be a breeze! Really looking forward to this and hoping I'll have the scratch ready.
Luap
Votek_Mendo wrote:
What is the price of this kit?


There is no kit. And what will be available (PCB's and a panel) there is no price for yet.
doepferiano
count me in... nanners
saemola
possibly bravest the DIY project I've seen!
Monobass
Luap wrote:
Votek_Mendo wrote:
What is the price of this kit?


There is no kit.


zthee wrote:
The other components will probably be sold by a fellow Wiggler. But we still have to figure that all out.


There might be a kit.
Rigo
Monobass wrote:
There might be a kit.

Before or after the complete 258 kit ? hihi
Votek_Mendo
I'm in!
Monobass
Rigo wrote:
Monobass wrote:
There might be a kit.

Before or after the complete 258 kit ? hihi


Bit of a difference between the 258J bom and one that you can buy solely from Mouser smile
Rigo
Monobass wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Monobass wrote:
There might be a kit.

Before or after the complete 258 kit ? hihi


Bit of a difference between the 258J bom and one that you can buy solely from Mouser smile

I have no idea ... will have to make an order all by myself for some Fonik pcbs and also the MVP, but I'm waiting patiently for your 258 kit ... and if you decide to do the 2600 kit I will be waiting patiently for that one as well Guinness ftw!
Luap
Monobass wrote:
Luap wrote:
Votek_Mendo wrote:
What is the price of this kit?


There is no kit.


zthee wrote:
The other components will probably be sold by a fellow Wiggler. But we still have to figure that all out.


There might be a kit.


That would be good smile But still, I suppose it boils down to what you consider a kit to be.. I think of it as near everything needed to complete from a single vender. Even with the help of another wiggler providing parts, there is still going to be multiple venders involved to get everything together. And then you need to tackle the case.
No real problem for me personally I think. But I get the impression other folk are expecting something rather more convenient, like a Shruthi or x0xb0x 'kit' for example.

Either way, im itching to get started on one of these hyper
Monobass
Luap wrote:
Monobass wrote:
Luap wrote:
Votek_Mendo wrote:
What is the price of this kit?


There is no kit.


zthee wrote:
The other components will probably be sold by a fellow Wiggler. But we still have to figure that all out.


There might be a kit.


That would be good smile But still, I suppose it boils down to what you consider a kit to be..


yeah, guess it does.
Peake
That is so freaking beautiful. Kudos to all involved.
Randy
I will probably refer to mine as a 1900. That's around 73% of 2600.

Randy
moog55
Randy wrote:
I will probably refer to mine as a 1900. That's around 73% of 2600.

Randy



i'd call it a 2600M or 2600 Mini. 1900 kind of implies partial functionality, but hey, call it whatever you want. Chugging Beers
zthee
I really like the Mini Meanie.
gwaidan
Awesome name for it, zthee!
DubplateDerek
Someone told me I should come and have a look at this forum and this is what I find! Fantastic!

Count me in.
demian
Odd question perhaps, is there any chance to obtain a whiteface version of the front panel in the future? I would happily pay some extra for it, i really love white frontpanels. (Oddysey whiteface, synthi a, oberheim 2 voice etc..)

(I just saw this page, that's why is my question : http://discretesynthesizers.com/arptronics/arp2800.htm )

I would order at least three complete sets of pcbs and panels when the time is there. (White or non-white)

Another question, i am not too familiar with the 2600, in the fp you say that a 2600 with an extra ADSR would be the best synth in the world, is it perhaps an idea to add some extra functionality to the sequencer or keyboard to make your clone the best synth in the world?

Or, is it possible to simply use a regular external adsr with the 2600?

Anyway, thanks for all your outstanding work!
zthee
demian wrote:
Odd question perhaps, is there any chance to obtain a whiteface version of the front panel in the future?


Unfortunately I don't think so. But it's hard to look into the future.

demian wrote:
...in the fp you say that a 2600 with an extra ADSR would be the best synth in the world...


I'm saying that I won't change anything even if it made it better. The ADSR was just an example.

demian wrote:
Or, is it possible to simply use a regular external adsr with the 2600?


There should be no probem in interfacing the TTSH with euro, or any other modular system that generates normal voltages (<20Vpp).
demian
Thanks for your answers Zthee! 8_)
roglok
awesome project! just checked the schematics for the VCO sub module - seems like the 4027-1 uses quite a few odd/unusual resistor values (e.g. 8.87K, 91.9K, 1.87K...)

Is that the case throughout the whole 2600 or are the VCOs somewhat special in that regard?
Mongo1
I could see making the case have a small section for another panel with a MIDI interface and some other goodies. Maybe that stuff could be on the back of the case.

Gary
loydb
Can you make an FPD file available so we can tweak colors to our hearts' content? we're not worthy
raisinbag
Mongo1 wrote:
I could see making the case have a small section for another panel with a MIDI interface and some other goodies. Maybe that stuff could be on the back of the case.

Gary


That's my plan too. wink.
E.A.S.
roglok wrote:
awesome project! just checked the schematics for the VCO sub module - seems like the 4027-1 uses quite a few odd/unusual resistor values (e.g. 8.87K, 91.9K, 1.87K...)

Is that the case throughout the whole 2600 or are the VCOs somewhat special in that regard?


Those values are pretty easy to come by, albeit not values you tend to use a lot. Actually, they are Standard 1% values. I have a mouser BOM for the 4027-1 if interested. Im not sure if it'll be of much use considering there will be a proper BOM for for this layout, but you're welcome to it! As for the rest of the 2600, there are some more odd resistor values in the other sub-modules but nothing you can't get from digikey or mouser!
-mike
raisinbag
I could use that bom. thumbs up I still have to figure out how to build the circuit around that module! Ok I won't hijack.

E.A.S. wrote:
roglok wrote:
awesome project! just checked the schematics for the VCO sub module - seems like the 4027-1 uses quite a few odd/unusual resistor values (e.g. 8.87K, 91.9K, 1.87K...)

Is that the case throughout the whole 2600 or are the VCOs somewhat special in that regard?


Those values are pretty easy to come by, albeit not values you tend to use a lot. Actually, they are Standard 1% values. I have a mouser BOM for the 4027-1 if interested. Im not sure if it'll be of much use considering there will be a proper BOM for for this layout, but you're welcome to it! As for the rest of the 2600, there are some more odd resistor values in the other sub-modules but nothing you can't get from digikey or mouser!
-mike
nathanxl
raisinbag wrote:
Mongo1 wrote:
I could see making the case have a small section for another panel with a MIDI interface and some other goodies. Maybe that stuff could be on the back of the case.

Gary


That's my plan too. wink.


TTSH Presto-patch!?!
fluxivity
exciting project, getting caught up
plord
I don't know how or where I will scrape together the funds for this but I am helpless to resist.

The only other build of comparable size I've tried was the MB-808 and I bailed on that one really early. But this...I want this.

Looking forward to additional progress reports and scraping pennies together SlayerBadger!
zthee
roglok wrote:
Is that the case throughout the whole 2600 or are the VCOs somewhat special in that regard?


It's through out the whole. But it's in general quite a low count on components to be honest.
raisinbag
nathanxl wrote:
raisinbag wrote:
Mongo1 wrote:
I could see making the case have a small section for another panel with a MIDI interface and some other goodies. Maybe that stuff could be on the back of the case.

Gary


That's my plan too. wink.


TTSH Presto-patch!?!


Just brainstorming I was thinking of running 2 or three of the midi to cv euro modules from Hexinveter vertical from top to bottom beside main panel. I'm in the infancy of playing with cab ideas so I'll keep my eye here for ideas.
fluxivity
reverb tank?
Mongo1
One other thing I'd need would be a bunch of 1/8 to 1/4 converters to interface with the rest of my gear.

Regarding the MIDI converters, I'm not sure why you'd need a lot of them. This is pretty much a mono synth. One thing to consider if you want multiple channels in the Polydac from Elby. 4 Channels - works well.

Gary
craque
oh. wow. fucking. wow. damn. wow. MY ASS IS BLEEDING
delayed
Would be nice to know what reverb tanks will be used for this so a group buy might be put together. And maybe another run of tanks for the Nerual Agonizer at the same time.
zthee
[s]http://soundcloud.com/info-1822/ttsh[/s]

First the 3 oscillators through the filter. Then testing the ring modulator - it goes "BOOooomm" at 1.14 when I flip between AC and DC. After that there's some pink and white noise followed by oscillator 2 PWM modulated by osc 3.

There's still a lot to do. So just a teaser!
Malekko
w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t
Slabwax
Very cool, nice work.
Jarno
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
Isaiah
Sounds great! Rockin' Banana!
fonik
Guinness ftw!
J3RK
VERY NICE WORK!!

This is looking and sounding great! This is fun!
moog55
sounds wicked, zthee. we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy
Moog$FooL$
ok... wow!!! thumbs up
i didn't even realize you were this far along.

thanx for the teaser.

w00t w00t w00t w00t
netpusher
Thanks for the early preview! Sounds really great!
beyourdog
zthee wrote:
[s]http://soundcloud.com/info-1822/ttsh[/s]

First the 3 oscillators through the filter. Then testing the ring modulator - it goes "BOOooomm" at 1.14 when I flip between AC and DC. After that there's some pink and white noise followed by oscillator 2 PWM modulated by osc 3.

There's still a lot to do. So just a teaser!


It may be silly but the sounds near 2 minutes, 2.03 when tuning the VCO sounds very arpish...that's exciting...
flts
FUCK YES hyper
gwaidan
zthee wrote:
roglok wrote:
Is that the case throughout the whole 2600 or are the VCOs somewhat special in that regard?


It's through out the whole. But it's in general quite a low count on components to be honest.


Same thing with the later Aries modules, which Dennis Colin (who worked on the 2600) also designed-if anything the funny values make it easier to know when you should be using 1% resistors....
fluxivity
Great sounds
Low-Gain
Can't wait to build 4-5 of these! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw!
My system will be complete then! hahaha

What is the panel dimensions so I can plan out an enclosure for these?
rico loverde
absolutely amazing Zthee! applause
synaptech
I need a towel. Awesome zthee!
Barcode
Sounds awesome! I can't wait. It's motherfucking bacon yo
DonaldCrunk
oh this thing is going to be phenomenal, i have to agree with beyourdog - it sounds like an arp already! i can't wait to try out my R2D2 patches. man i'm more excited about this than my incoming MS20, and that's really saying something.

thank you for doing this so much we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy
J3RK
I've been trying to talk myself out of building one, but... I can't... Definitely interested when they're ready. w00t Mr. Green

Actually I think I've talked a couple people into building with me. Probably need three. w00t applause
Pro-502
Added my name to the list a few weeks back, but i have to add my voice to this thread now too.

Congratulations Zthee, that is sounding extremely promising. The PWM in particular is superb.

Nice one mate.
aladan
This is going to be huge... I foresee hundreds of these being ordered.
beyourdog
aladan wrote:
This is going to be huge... I foresee hundreds of these being ordered.


We could do a group Building in Adelaide,...I mean you will probably want to build one, I would too, maybe our other friends would as well... Guinness ftw!
aladan
beyourdog wrote:
aladan wrote:
This is going to be huge... I foresee hundreds of these being ordered.


We could do a group Building in Adelaide,...I mean you will probably want to build one, I would too, maybe our other friends would as well... Guinness ftw!


I reckon we might want to do a few in parallel... Would be well up for a group solderfest applause
diablojoy
Damn way too hard to resist this one .
I am in also
aladan
diablojoy wrote:
Damn way too hard to resist this one .
I am in also
Coming across to join in our group build? Only an 8 hour drive...hihi
diablojoy
Quote:
Coming across to join in our group build? Only an 8 hour drive...

hmm not a bad idea since you are so close by and the old ute could do with some cobwebs blowing out.
already thinking of a case got some nice fiddleback maple kicking around
done in my usual organic twisted and lumpy style. must find some good fiddleback blackwood to go with that too.
myecholalia
WOW! Signed up to the list a while ago already. After hearing the first sounds now, I've GOT to have one of those when they are ready. Anyone in Singapore (or close by) planning to build one? I could use some help on the building side (or even find someone to build for me in exchange of whatever).
DubplateDerek
I've seen a couple of people mention adding their name to a list. Where is the list?
beyourdog
aladan wrote:
beyourdog wrote:
aladan wrote:
This is going to be huge... I foresee hundreds of these being ordered.


We could do a group Building in Adelaide,...I mean you will probably want to build one, I would too, maybe our other friends would as well... Guinness ftw!


I reckon we might want to do a few in parallel... Would be well up for a group solderfest applause


That would be great because I would seriously need a hand to complete mine...or at least a bit of supervision from a king of the Iron...
Rigo
DubplateDerek wrote:
I've seen a couple of people mention adding their name to a list. Where is the list?

Look at any of the posts of zthee, you should find something like http://www.thehumancomparator.net/
DubplateDerek
Rigo wrote:
DubplateDerek wrote:
I've seen a couple of people mention adding their name to a list. Where is the list?

Look at any of the posts of zthee, you should find something like http://www.thehumancomparator.net/


Aha!

Thanks!
Rod Serling Fan Club
Zthee,
How deep are the stacked pcb's? Thinking a nice, compact, shallow case might be nice.
bartleby
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
Thinking a nice, compact, shallow case might be nice.

+1
no need to replicate the original case design, in my view.

very exciting project, looking forward to seeing and hearing more of if.
amnesia
Damn I didn't pay any attention to this thread. I just assumed it was a strange TrackTrack Sample Hold .idiot!

I am in. I have always wanted an ARP 2600.

Might see if the VICMOD crew would be interested.

Amazing stuff Zhee.

Next we need a mini ARP 2500 :-)
lmgrovllum
So excited to hear the demo! Hmmm sadly building one would be way outside of my time/skill, but it looks like lots of people will be making extras applause
zthee
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
Zthee,
How deep are the stacked pcb's? Thinking a nice, compact, shallow case might be nice.


Distance from panel to board is 10mm, sub modules on the back goes out about 10-15mm. So I guess the complete thickness is about an inch. The spring reverb and speakers will require some additional room as well though.
Yoa01
Perhaps I missed it somewhere, but is there a price on this bad boy? Obviously anything less than the price of a real one would be great, but even a ballpark estimate would be cool.

Either way I'm probably in smile
Pfurmel
Oldstench
applause Dude. Holy shit.
Monobass
I'm thinking shallow, tight, black aluminium box with stand instead of dead trees.
Randy
I'm hoping someone does a front panel 'though. One thing I've learned with my latest Shruthi XT build is that round holes are your friends but anything other than round are very bad.

Randy
Monobass
Randy wrote:
I'm hoping someone does a front panel 'though. One thing I've learned with my latest Shruthi XT build is that round holes are your friends but anything other than round are very bad.

Randy


Is always advisable to read the first post in a thread.
sduck
Randy wrote:
I'm hoping someone does a front panel 'though.


Yoa01 wrote:
Perhaps I missed it somewhere, but is there a price on this bad boy?


One of the big problems with the popularity of this thread is that it's gotten big enough that people don't read it before asking the same questions over an over again.
Randy
I did, just forgot. It seems like so long ago...
Yoa01
I've read all of it, but there's a lot of stuff going on in this thread as well as life. I'm sorry.
diablojoy
Quote:
I'm thinking shallow, tight, black aluminium box with stand instead of dead trees.

perhaps some dead tree just for the ends ?
everything is nicer with some dead tree hanging off it
raisinbag
I plan on offering a few special "dead tree cases". Just waiting for some specs to make my mockup. I'll keep you posted as all this progresses.
Kopter
I already put my name on the list some time ago, but I'm just checking in to say that having this as a portable DIY-solution is nearly a dream come true. I'm SO looking forward to seeing this come to fruition! The BoCGS-panels and now this combined makes me want to put you in charge of a middle-sized monarchy somewhere near the North Sea. Go zthee!
mckenic
Kopter wrote:
The BoCGS-panels and now this combined makes me want to put you in charge of a middle-sized monarchy somewhere near the North Sea. Go zthee!


I'd move there!!!
cleaninglady
Kopter wrote:
I already put my name on the list some time ago, but I'm just checking in to say that having this as a portable DIY-solution is nearly a dream come true. I'm SO looking forward to seeing this come to fruition! The BoCGS-panels and now this combined makes me want to put you in charge of a middle-sized monarchy somewhere near the North Sea. Go zthee!


King Jon

olga42
Hmm, gas filled shocks, a bit of metal, a keyboard and voila: the analog slider riff on the Wave. SlayerBadger!

Wooden endcheeks optional.
stromcat
Just to fan the flames a touch (0:00-1:06).



Watching this with extreme interest. Well done for all your work so far, Zthee.
Pfurmel
sduck wrote:
Randy wrote:
I'm hoping someone does a front panel 'though.


Yoa01 wrote:
Perhaps I missed it somewhere, but is there a price on this bad boy?


One of the big problems with the popularity of this thread is that it's gotten big enough that people don't read it before asking the same questions over an over again.


But is there a front panel?
Is there a price?
Am I here?
Is this even real?
southphillysynths
QUICK start planning out lunchboxes/skiffs/a small euro system to accompany your 2600!! screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo
amnesia
Lunchbox = Aphex Lunchbox Lindell Audio 1176n x2 and Lindell Pultec eq x2
Christopher Winkels
It might be a wise idea to modify the first post in this thread so that it contains a FAQ.
a100user
Christopher Winkels wrote:
It might be a wise idea to modify the first post in this thread so that it contains a FAQ.


Good idea cos then everyone coming in can ignore that too eek!
Christopher Winkels
Nothing ventured....
Randy
To my question and lack of memory, a simple "yes" would've worked fine. To Yoa01's question, a simple "no" would also have worked well. The entire reply would've appeared as:

Yes
No

Seems quite a bit easier than the various bits of preaching that followed.

Randy
sduck
Actually, kind sir, the questions were answered in kind with yes/no answers - just not in the posts immediately after the questions. The commentary by me and a few others were tangential, not directly relating to your question. Shouldn't be a concern, we do that a lot here, as you will discover after spending more quality time here (welcome, by the way!). Yes, perhaps a FAQ on the front page might be beneficial, but it would have to be done by zthee; and personally I'd rather he spends his time as he sees fit in getting this noble endeavor off the ground.
zthee
I do realize that when doing stuff like this you have to be clear with the communication. And I do know you guys are impatient and would've liked to built one of these already yesterday. And I have to say it makes me happy to see such reactions! What fun would this project be if everyone said it was boring. So hooray for you! And I'm sorry if you feel you're not getting to know everything you would like up know.

The simple reason I'm not giving out any information is because I don't have any. I too could guess and speculate - but what good would that do? The BOM is undergoing changes every time I work on the board. And I'd prefer to give out one complete list instead of 5 versions all different and no one knows which one to use. A mess. The same goes with dimensions and everything, it might all change! So I'm keeping a lid on it until I actually know.

I do hope you guys understand!

So until there's white smoke from the Vatican - just sit back and enjoy! smile
Yoa01
Makes sense. Thanks for that.
Dego


Guinness ftw!
raisinbag
Dego wrote:


Guinness ftw!


This plus 2600 = over load. fap fap fap... fap fap fap... Eel Power FTW! Eel Power FTW!
Moog$FooL$
"So until there's white smoke from the Vatican - just sit back and enjoy! smile"

perfect!!
thumbs up

please take your time zthee.
Vic
@zthee,

I signed up a while back via the weblink I found somewhere in this tread.

2 friends of mine like to build 1 too.

Will there be a chance to let you know how much pcb's, faceplates we like to buy at some point ?

Iv'e got no response from the sign up, maybe I did something wrong ?

brgds,
Vic
@zthee,

I signed up a while back via the weblink I found somewhere in this tread.

2 friends of mine like to build 1 too.

Will there be a chance to let you know how much pcb's, faceplates we like to buy at some point ?

Iv'e got no response from the sign up, maybe I did something wrong ?

brgds,
Rigo
Vic wrote:
@zthee,

I signed up a while back via the weblink I found somewhere in this tread.

2 friends of mine like to build 1 too.

Will there be a chance to let you know how much pcb's, faceplates we like to buy at some point ?

Iv'e got no response from the sign up, maybe I did something wrong ?

brgds,

No information has been sent yet, just follow the progress in this thread.
zthee
Vic wrote:
Will there be a chance to let you know how much pcb's, faceplates we like to buy at some point ?


Yes, hopefully everyone will be able as many as they like.
Rex Coil 7
Christopher Winkels wrote:
It might be a wise idea to modify the first post in this thread so that it contains a FAQ.
Another idea may be to have zthee add a note in his signature - to the effect of "no pricing info yet" .. er ???

Another thought is perhaps someone that is regularly active post at least once per page "Pricing info as of (date)." We're talking an entire sentence, so it's not like it would be some burdening responsibility.

Y'know .... so someone might become the FIY/FAQ czar. Otherwise these repeating questions from the people less than interested in reading zthee's opening post will continue with 120bpm frequency.

"... nothing ventured ...." Indeed.
Rex Coil 7
(I'll try to start it ... let me know about anything I should edit/add. Once completed all that has to be done is ~quote~ this post once per page.)

As of this date, here are most of the FAQs about the Two Thousand Six Hundred (aka TTSH) DIY synth kit:

** The designer/builder is member "zthee" ... he may be contacted via PM here ... https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=571

** There is no pricing info just yet for the pcb or the front panel.

** It is not available as a prebuilt synthesizer, this is a DIY kit with a single main pcb and a predrilled/prelabeled front panel - the two pieces are not preassembled as a whole - some essential soldering skills and mechanical skills are required. Of course, you may pay someone to take care of those issues for you. Read this thread for the names of members that have expressed a willingness to do so.

** There are no wooden sides or cabinet available, however there are some people willing to work on that. Read this thread for details on ~who~ and ~how much money~.

** The kit is not available yet, there is an interest list for those that wish to purchase this system when it is fully available. The "interest list" is located at http://www.thehumancomparator.net/

** There is no sequencer. There are no plans that have been announced by the designer (member "zthee") to release one either.

** There are no mods available, it is what it is.

** For further information and deeper details, read the opening post in this thread, as well as the rest of the thread. At the very least read the first post.

smile
Rex Coil 7
(the typical Muffwiggler's Forum double post due to having to hit "submit" twice after waiting over 10 minutes for it to post. Slowest forum on Earth.)
chaosium
Gosh I hope that's enough to quash the questions for at least a week razz
sduck
How can I find the first post?
Peake
It's on page 42.
Peake
It's on page 42.
whitewulfe
.....Wow. Just, wow. So looking forward to this!
zthee
I think this should be nominated as the comedy thread of 2013.

But just to say something TTSH related - I've got everything but the ADSR and S&H up and running. So it's coming along as it should and I'm keeping the schedule.
Rigo
It's just all that anticipation (or lack of it) doing funny things to people hyper
Now where did I put that ?
moog55
zthee wrote:
I think this should be nominated as the comedy thread of 2013.

But just to say something TTSH related - I've got everything but the ADSR and S&H up and running. So it's coming along as it should and I'm keeping the schedule.


it feels like you're ahead of schedule. once the adsr and s&h is up and running, what will the focus be? just curious.

i'm still willing to help out in some capacity, too.
zthee
moog55 wrote:
zthee wrote:
I think this should be nominated as the comedy thread of 2013.

But just to say something TTSH related - I've got everything but the ADSR and S&H up and running. So it's coming along as it should and I'm keeping the schedule.


it feels like you're ahead of schedule. once the adsr and s&h is up and running, what will the focus be? just curious.

i'm still willing to help out in some capacity, too.


I'm on schedule now, but the ADSR is being troublesome as hell, but hopefully I'll get it to work pretty soon. Fingers crossed it won't delay anything.

Once I got it working I'll fix all the errors in the file, order a new set of boards. Then another test build to confirm that everything is working. There's been quite a lot of errors (pots going backwards, wrong value resistors, a trace missin or have to be cut and so on) but nothing major so far.
Jarno
Cracking job Zthee! thumbs up
zthee
If anyone have more additional information regarding the 4020 than is already available online (AMSynth and Arptech) and is willing to share - I'd be happy as a bird with a french fry.
roglok
Quote:
If anyone have more additional information regarding the 4020 than is already available online (AMSynth and Arptech) and is willing to share - I'd be happy as a bird with a french fry.


not sure if this helps, but there is a thread going on over at e-m: http://electro-music.com/forum/post-383243.html
paperCUT
A full kit including a basic wood case would be fantastic, is it likely? I swore never to do DIY again if it meant building the hardware from scratch, electronics are simple compared to metal/wood working without good tools help
zthee
roglok wrote:
Quote:
If anyone have more additional information regarding the 4020 than is already available online (AMSynth and Arptech) and is willing to share - I'd be happy as a bird with a french fry.


not sure if this helps, but there is a thread going on over at e-m: http://electro-music.com/forum/post-383243.html


Thanks! I've seen it, and he only confirms the stuff already on the AMSynth website, but perhaps I should pop over there with my question.
boops
Hello everybody ,first post here.. Rockin' Banana!

Interested in the TTSH ,just send a request..

thanks.
keithwin
I submitted to the 'interest' site, twice I think, I've had no confirmation or posts, is his normal?
Don't want to miss out on this smile
zthee
keithwin wrote:
I submitted to the 'interest' site, twice I think, I've had no confirmation or posts, is his normal?


This is normal.
keithwin
Thanks for that smile
How's the JH vocoder doing, I'll head across now for an update, my board completely stuffed via sounds recommendations just wiring to do once I pick up a pin matrix @ Cambridge SDIY
smile
mome rath
Dancing Star Trampoline Dancing Star
zthee
keithwin wrote:
Thanks for that smile
How's the JH vocoder doing, I'll head across now for an update, my board completely stuffed via sounds recommendations just wiring to do once I pick up a pin matrix @ Cambridge SDIY
smile


The vocoder is complete, it's just that it's taken me a few years to order a panel for it. And I don't think that panel will happen this year either... So, it stays in a cupboard in the kitchen waiting for better times.

I have to say though that the little I've tested it, it sounded almost too good. It's a bit to smooth for me. I was hoping for a bit more grit. But perhaps it'll be different once I start using it for real.
mattrick
did i reply in here yet? i don't remember.

i do remember signing up on zthee's site though.

i'm in for several MY ASS IS BLEEDING
oozitron
keithwin wrote:
I submitted to the 'interest' site, twice I think, I've had no confirmation or posts, is his normal?
Don't want to miss out on this smile


I try to sign up at least once a day It's peanut butter jelly time!

Drew (former grey-face 2600 owner who is way happy about this)
zthee
[s]http://soundcloud.com/info-1822/ttsh-2[/s]

New test sounds. S&H + spring reverb. Nothing complicated.
mDang
hahaha ! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time!
great, can we have a new picture of your amazing work ?
southphillysynths
Sounds so freaking fantastic! Dead Banana
doobedy
I dig that verb. Really nice.
lysander
That verb is lovely.
mome rath
This is so exciting hyper
Chrutil
This is so awesome - I'm in for one as well!

Tackar & bockar,
C
gslug
I've been meaning to register here for a while, but this has tipped me over the edge! I'm in.
nickster
Sounds nice! Just out of interest did you use the Acutronics 4AB2A1B or 1AB2A1B for the reverb tank?
zthee
I used an old one I had laying around. Doesn't have any markings on it, looks like a 16.75" Acutronics though.
plord
Man that sounds good.
Low-Gain
I'm beyond excited for these! hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper
emdot_ambient
Very interesting. thumbs up
bananeurysm
yep. major stoke!
zthee


I got the ADSR up and running today. So all original modules in the project is now fully operational! There's still bits and pieces which needs to be dealt with. And I haven't tested the amps yet.

So the next couple of weeks will be spent redesigning parts of the board and making adjustments. And also playing with it. It's a really fun synth!
Moog$FooL$
woot toot woot!!!

w00t w00t w00t screaming goo yo screaming goo yo SlayerBadger!
Jason Rodriguez
Go, Zthee! Go!

I have never even operated a Soldering Iron in my Life...yet.

Time to get some knowledge under my belt.

How far must a noob like me progress to even begin to be able to tackle something like this?

Two potential Teachers in my town are also on this board.
mOBiTh
fuck. awesomez...

so how do you feel about the mechanical sturdiness of the pcb/panel?

def worth a decent testing/playing period before finalisation I reckon, in case some oddness starts to show up.

not that i mind a bit of oddness hihi
Monobass
zthee wrote:


love love love
clarke68
Jason Rodriguez wrote:
How far must a noob like me progress to even begin to be able to tackle something like this?

I'd say build this, and then build this and you'll be on your way. These are both useful modules in any Euro system...and if you're not into Euro you can sell them in BST!
clarke68
Deleting a double post to say: awesome job ZThee! Nice to have you back. thumbs up
Christopher Winkels
zthee wrote:



something wonderful
mattrick
zthee wrote:


I got the ADSR up and running today. So all original modules in the project is now fully operational! There's still bits and pieces which needs to be dealt with. And I haven't tested the amps yet.

So the next couple of weeks will be spent redesigning parts of the board and making adjustments. And also playing with it. It's a really fun synth!


you literally just got a round of applause from me applause applause applause

it's a beaut!!! love

nanners
Brunstein
Wow, amazing!
Jason Rodriguez
clarke68 wrote:
I'd say build this, and then build this and you'll be on your way. These are both useful modules in any Euro system...and if you're not into Euro you can sell them in BST!


Well...funny you should mention that.

I play the Arturia ARP 2600V. It has no Multiple like the original, the Voltage Processors work quite differently, and it has that Tracking Generator that really puts it over the top!

I've been lucky professionally/financially lately & I WAS going to get an MS-20 Mini and buy/build some Euro Modules to interface with it & learn how to build.

Multiples/Attenuvertors/Quad LFOs/Etc.

Now - out of that $600 USD - I want to get equipped with a good Soldering Iron, Test Equipment but most importantly the knowledge of what to do with it all.

This November will be 20 Years since the First & Only time I ever saw a real ARP 2600. A story for later...

Watching soldering tutorials on YouTube right now, feel free to PM me with further links. smile
netpusher
Looking really good!
SlayerBadger!
djangosfire
zthee wrote:


something wonderful something wonderful something wonderful something wonderful something wonderful something wonderful something wonderful something wonderful
gwaidan
zthee wrote:




Gorgeous-can't wait!
Cata
zthee wrote:

Oh wow!
moog55
zthee wrote:


I got the ADSR up and running today. So all original modules in the project is now fully operational! There's still bits and pieces which needs to be dealt with. And I haven't tested the amps yet.

So the next couple of weeks will be spent redesigning parts of the board and making adjustments. And also playing with it. It's a really fun synth!



amazing progress, zthee! it sounds incredible and looks stunning as well! we're not worthy
djangosfire
hhmmm... maybe I'll build a clear cab for mine This is fun! these boards look so nice!!
RobotDad
djangosfire wrote:
hhmmm... maybe I'll build a clear cab for mine This is fun! these boards look so nice!!


Now THAT is a wonderful idea.
fakulo
I can't wait to start building...

But how would one be soldering... the big pcb doesn't fit my pcb-holder... hihi

Is 300 degrees a good temperature for the pcb? Or is less better... I know hotter is easier, but don't want to mess this pcb up meh
a100user
zthee wrote:





This image can not be posted enough. Glorious.
mckenic
Yup it is really BEAUTIFUL! I think the LED sliders are really nice!

Good luck with the testing... and if you happen to leave your recorder plugged in while doing said testing... Im sure no-one would mind listening to it hihi

thumbs up

Very exciting - thank you!
Risto Esquina
Would it be overly impetuous of me to suggest setting up a fund to build #0001 and send it to Al Pearlman?

Just as a tribute.
Dego
Yes, leave the poor guy alone
mDang
roooooh ! beautiful !!! thanks for sharing that !
Risto Esquina
Dego wrote:
Yes, leave the poor guy alone


Why do you think it would be a bad thing?

His Facebook photo shows him rather contentedly leaning over a vintage 2600. I think he's at peace with his past otherwise he wouldn't post a picture like that.

I think it would be a classy way of saying "thanks for helping blaze the trail". Maybe I'm alone on that count. seriously, i just don't get it
Low-Gain
hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper
zthee
Risto Esquina wrote:
Would it be overly impetuous of me to suggest setting up a fund to build #0001 and send it to Al Pearlman?


As this project has no connection to him, other than a historical one, I find it hard to motivate such an action. But feel free if you have the cash and time to put it together.
Low-Gain
I'd love to be #0001 wink how much will that cost me. har har
sduck
Risto Esquina wrote:
Dego wrote:
Yes, leave the poor guy alone


Why do you think it would be a bad thing?

His Facebook photo shows him rather contentedly leaning over a vintage 2600. I think he's at peace with his past otherwise he wouldn't post a picture like that.


My opinion is that it wouldn't really be a great idea. From what I understand he was really distressed by the whole collapse of his company and hasn't had anything to do with it since then. He's a very old man now, that facebook page was probably put up by a friend or relative or fan. Perhaps if he were contacted and expressed some interest, but I understand he's very hard to get in touch with.

Besides, I'm third in the line already - no cuts!
chaosium
Risto Esquina wrote:
Dego wrote:
Yes, leave the poor guy alone


Why do you think it would be a bad thing?

His Facebook photo shows him rather contentedly leaning over a vintage 2600. I think he's at peace with his past otherwise he wouldn't post a picture like that.
To use an awkward analogy, being a part of a messy divorce doesn't mean that you'd appreciate a gift painting of your ex-spouse in their prime. He might appreciate it, it might sting a ton. Who knows? Sometimes it's better to leave a person with the memories they choose to keep, especially if they've kept mum on the subject since the acrimony.

If he's distanced himself intentionally and made it hard for fans to contact, why not respect that divide and his privacy?
Dego
+1 sduck and chaosium.
smile
Paradigm X
Ima just leave this here Mr. Green

doobedy
http://www.wayoutware.com/products.html

Endorsed by A.R.P. So yeah, not sure he's a broken down old man with no interest in his old company.

I guarantee raising the money and finding a builder would be easy, if he showed any interest in having a mini-2600 nanners
rekem1000
doobedy wrote:
http://www.wayoutware.com/products.html

Endorsed by A.R.P. So yeah, not sure he's a broken down old man with no interest in his old company.

I guarantee raising the money and finding a builder would be easy, if he showed any interest in having a mini-2600 nanners


"Hey Alan, would you take this check for $xxxx amount so we can stick your name on our product that that sounds kinda like a 2600 but really is just a graphic on a computer screen"

"Sure"

-------

"Hey Alan, would you like a free clone of your 2600 that looks fairly similar and sounds the same, there are hundreds of people buying kits of it"

"Where's my $$$"
Reese P. Dubin
I hate mini jacks and cant wait to build one of these. It will be on its own, not to talk to anyone else, and I think that will be great.

Looks like a casual weekend build, although I know my tendencies and will probably turn this out in a day. A bleary eyed coffee stinking day.
mikecameron
I don't have words for how awesome this project is. I want to build 10 of them. #solderjunky

Is this all through-hole? would love to see the other side of the boards!
doobedy
rekem1000 wrote:
doobedy wrote:
http://www.wayoutware.com/products.html

Endorsed by A.R.P. So yeah, not sure he's a broken down old man with no interest in his old company.

I guarantee raising the money and finding a builder would be easy, if he showed any interest in having a mini-2600 nanners


"Hey Alan, would you take this check for $xxxx amount so we can stick your name on our product that that sounds kinda like a 2600 but really is just a graphic on a computer screen"

"Sure"

-------

"Hey Alan, would you like a free clone of your 2600 that looks fairly similar and sounds the same, there are hundreds of people buying kits of it"

"Where's my $$$"


Cynic!
Monobass
realist
beyourdog
doobedy wrote:
http://www.wayoutware.com/products.html

Endorsed by A.R.P. So yeah, not sure he's a broken down old man with no interest in his old company.

I guarantee raising the money and finding a builder would be easy, if he showed any interest in having a mini-2600 nanners


This clone isn’t about a commercial product using the ARP name or trying to sell ARP products under a software version...(or to get a bit of a legitimate case against the concurrency like the Arturia ARP software...which is the case here...). This is a clone in a DIY zone of a forum, this is not commercial product, these are PCB or kits developed from scratch from old circuits long gone in public domain if they were ever copyrighted and I don't think Mr Pearlman would have any rights towards these new Schematics (usually the developer owns them, unless any patent is still owned or vulgarly copied from an existing one...).

So letting the man alone is probably the best because he certainly doesn’t have any rights to this (sadly some might things, but this is the legal fact)...
I may add as well that although he did not create the original design, I really praise the person who just recreated this new version. if there is somebody who should be congratulated and get an open Paypal account to get a fee from each PCB, it should be him.
ARP had their time, they fucked it up, so long...
realshafer
Heading to school later to jam with some friends on our modulars plus the school's gray-faced 2600. This thread is definitely going to be a topic of conversation.
beyourdog
realshafer wrote:
Heading to school later to jam with some friends on our modulars plus the school's gray-faced 2600. This thread is definitely going to be a topic of conversation.


Damn, I would have loved to go to this school, mine had a SH101... waah OK, I got it when i left...
Slabwax
beyourdog wrote:
realshafer wrote:
Heading to school later to jam with some friends on our modulars plus the school's gray-faced 2600. This thread is definitely going to be a topic of conversation.


Damn, I would have loved to go to this school, mine had a SH101... waah OK, I got it when i left...


We had a couple beat up tubas and a trashed drum kit. And look were I'm at today Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw!
beyourdog
Slabwax wrote:
beyourdog wrote:
realshafer wrote:
Heading to school later to jam with some friends on our modulars plus the school's gray-faced 2600. This thread is definitely going to be a topic of conversation.


Damn, I would have loved to go to this school, mine had a SH101... waah OK, I got it when i left...


We had a couple beat up tubas and a trashed drum kit. And look were I'm at today Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw!


Today you're at the Pub drinking Guiness it seems Guinness ftw! hihi
Slabwax
Soon sir, soon. thumbs up
roglok
Paradigm X wrote:
Ima just leave this here Mr. Green



nice catch! and a funky track he made there. shame it's so short...
zthee
roglok
zthee wrote:


holy fuck!
MY ASS IS BLEEDING
beyourdog
zthee wrote:


Sir, you are not only a great developer, but as well a good musician, thank you for this insight,... thumbs up
zthee
beyourdog wrote:
Sir, you are not only a great developer, but as well a good musician, thank you for this insight,... thumbs up


Thank you! Though I'd honestly feel like I'm quite far from a musician. But I *had* to make something "melodic" for this. It's really a musical piece of machinery, what ever I put into it - it comes out as little melodies or great basslines. And I just love the fast envelopes!

I'm gonna play with it some more this weekend, and see what more things I need to add to the fix-it list. Then it'll be 2 weeks updating the board file. And then end june I'll build a second prototype.
Slabwax
Zthee the sounds on all the clips are great. Thanks for doing this.
raisinbag
beyourdog wrote:
realshafer wrote:
Heading to school later to jam with some friends on our modulars plus the school's gray-faced 2600. This thread is definitely going to be a topic of conversation.


Damn, I would have loved to go to this school, mine had a SH101... waah OK, I got it when i left...


Haha, uni had a big aries modular. Also had this little suitcase sitting in the corner which no one bothered with. That little synthi was the coolest thing ever and I was the only one who used it. ( and yes I did offer to buy, no such luck). Thus TTSH will be hopefully fill the void I have had inside me, since I graduated and had to leave that little suitcase behind. love
DrOctave
Great job Jon.
beyourdog
zthee wrote:
beyourdog wrote:
Sir, you are not only a great developer, but as well a good musician, thank you for this insight,... thumbs up


Thank you! Though I'd honestly feel like I'm quite far from a musician. But I *had* to make something "melodic" for this. It's really a musical piece of machinery, what ever I put into it - it comes out as little melodies or great basslines. And I just love the fast envelopes!

I'm gonna play with it some more this weekend, and see what more things I need to add to the fix-it list. Then it'll be 2 weeks updating the board file. And then end june I'll build a second prototype.
+

Agree, there is not only the sound in a synth, but the ergonomics. what makes the Minimog and 2600 great synths appart from their sound is the quality and inteligence in their arrangements (I mention them because i know them quite well, always had difficulties with the EMS patchbay, although i'd like to get one),

I think the 2600 is in itself a perfect template for synthesis. As such, instead of having a Eurorack case, if people could have a 2600 case and attach modules on the back, that'd be great (and that was the approach in some ways with the modules on the back, the VCO, VCF, VCA, Noise (something else) are just modules soldiered and not integrated originally in the synth.)

There are lots of subtilties in the sound and setup that nothing really comes close to. I made an album of the 2600 drones and things (in my signature) and I must admit since I sold it, I cannot find back these nuances and these evolving drones...this is a great stoner synth...
Sometimes with the 5U, i try to think of how a sound would be made if I was using the 2600...
moog55
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! screaming goo yo applause Rawk! Rawk! Rawk! Rawk! The Chewbacca Defense booty wiggler booty wiggler Chugging Beers


awesome video/demo!
nathanxl
Mini Meanie!!
Loving this indeed.
Every time I read this thread I get more excited eventhough I hate minijacks.
That video made my brain explode. That has not happened in a long time.

Thankyou Zthee
haima
That video sounds awesome!!

Will there be holes in the front panel for calibrating those blue trimpots that are on the fader side of the PCB?
Yoa01
Yeah ok I need this. Hopefully I'll have a job again before this comes out so I can simply forward my paycheck to you. lol
Low-Gain
Yeah ok. Ill take 10 kits. No seriously. I will.
freeyerheel
im excited to see the colored sliders in the panel. its going to look like the lumina kits you can get added to the arp odyssey for a small fortune. very nice design this everything and more!! great job
microtonal
zthee wrote:


That sounds better than the 2600 I remember. Are you sure you cloned the right circuits? applause
xpando
i'll take at least one kit over here asap hyper
dubnspace
Oh man, thats dope!
leitner6
Wow.. amazing work. love
M-Circus
Yeah, I can just join in the chant:

Sounds excellent! thumbs up
zthee
haima wrote:
Will there be holes in the front panel for calibrating those blue trimpots that are on the fader side of the PCB?


Ofcourse!
lysander
Sounds excellent.
This project has officially overtaken everything else in my GAS list, even though I have basically no time for DIY at the moment - this is worth a couple of sleepness nights wink
Boards and panels can't come soon enough !
zthee
microtonal wrote:
That sounds better than the 2600 I remember. Are you sure you cloned the right circuits? applause


I hope I did! hihi

The only thing I've improved was some extra decoupling caps close to the oscillators, since I had some cross modulation between them. A few 10µ and 100n solved that problem. But that could also be attributed to the fact that I've daisy chained the osc together. So now the only thing that's bleeding through the system is the internal clock, but apparently it does so on the original as well - So in theory it *should* stay. But if one wanted it to sound more VA, it's possible to add more decoupling hmmm.....
bartleby
well i don't mind some minor tweaks here and there like better decoupling or reduced drift, as long as it only improves the original design and sound character rather than radically changing it...

[edit: typos. should stop trying to type on ipad - it just doesn't work]
Jarno
You can always skimp on the value for the decoupling caps to give it more "character" hihi
zthee
Or remove them for that "Total Analog Sound(tm)"!
stromcat
I'll leave this here (apparently all done on a 2600).

bartleby
zthee wrote:
Or remove them for that "Total Analog Sound(tm)"!

serioulsy though, please do add at least the option to decouple the clock! i don't like the idea of clock signals bleeding into the audio path at all, original or not.
zthee
bartleby wrote:
serioulsy though, please do add at least the option to decouple the clock!


There will be the option of extra decoupling. After all, it's easier to remove than to add. And those who'd like the real original experience can just leave them out.
bartleby
excellent!
kbo
dope! need ^^'
Macron
Amazing! SlayerBadger!
roglok
zthee wrote:
bartleby wrote:
serioulsy though, please do add at least the option to decouple the clock!


There will be the option of extra decoupling. After all, it's easier to remove than to add. And those who'd like the real original experience can just leave them out.


what parts does the clock clock? only s&h?
zthee
roglok wrote:
What parts does the clock clock? Only s&h?


The S&H and the analog switch. It can also be routed to the ADSR and AR.
ACX
Beautiful !
I'm very interested.
rosch
i tried so hard to ignore the thread, but... count me in please
mrfang
Excited!
flts
i know i'm not contributing much but holy fuck i am so going to build one once everything is available. maybe one for a friend as well.
chinard
definitely interested in this project
count me in SlayerBadger!
ian-c
love it. it's a must have.

count me in for 1, possibly 2!
Pascal
two please w00t
mOBiTh
I'm fantasising about what might happen if you connect a couple of these to a couple of klees... hihi
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Dayum! This might have to be the first PCB I buy. Beautiful.
sylvainmoreau
ME WANT NOW !

ME WANT NOOOW !
blinosynth
i'm in
someone can build it for me hihi ?
moog55
I may have to up my order from 3 to 5. Cannot wait for this... hyper
Protofrangiste
that's great! count me in!
nanners
realshafer
Relevant:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/seth-shafer/arp2600-rene-1[/s]

No processing, just the sweet, sweet sounds of the greyface.
zthee
There was a request earlier for pics of the back. So I did a little photoshoot.


Large version


Large version

Quite a bit of rebuilding and rerouting. Tested the speakers today, and after some initial problems with the gain (not so good to have an output of 20Vpp) it's now working as it should.

Reality Checkpoint
Oh my goodness!

woah
Luka
what is the current draw thus far?
GrantB
Wow zthee that's pure DIY badassery! we're not worthy
zthee
Luka wrote:
what is the current draw thus far?


It's ~500mA on +V and ~100mA on -V. Problem is on this design I placed all the LEDs on the +V rail. But I've split it for the next prototype, so I have 9 groups on +V drawing 180mA and then 10 groups on -V drawing 200mA. Which means I should end up with ~300mA for each rail.

Next prototype will also have a DC-DC converter, giving 500mA on each rail. Which should be enough. And then you can just hook it up to a 12V battery and bring it to the park!
lessavyfav
Park? Aaaaahhhh! This is too fun. Thanks so much for letting us all follow along with the progress! (And get little kid levels of crazy excited to build!)
carynrich
Zthee, what kind of solder are you using, no clean, rosin core, organic core...

On a board this big, i would want to build by section which would rule out organic core (ie, no washing after putting pots and trimmers in the first section).

The pics of your board look clean but i havent seen close ups of the back.
VCOscillator
Nice watching this project develop, awesome work!

I signed up to mailing list a while back but just incase this thread is a better place to voice interest, I'm in for 2 thumbs up
hegeldas
Lov it applause
zthee
carynrich wrote:
Zthee, what kind of solder are you using, no clean, rosin core, organic core...


No clean, roisin core.
Low-Gain
zthee wrote:
Luka wrote:
what is the current draw thus far?


It's ~500mA on +V and ~100mA on -V. Problem is on this design I placed all the LEDs on the +V rail. But I've split it for the next prototype, so I have 9 groups on +V drawing 180mA and then 10 groups on -V drawing 200mA. Which means I should end up with ~300mA for each rail.

Next prototype will also have a DC-DC converter, giving 500mA on each rail. Which should be enough. And then you can just hook it up to a 12V battery and bring it to the park!


Sign of an amazing engineer. wink
And I thank you for that!

I'll take mine to the park !!
keithwin
Yup just to get it I writing I'm definately up for two of these


Play Him Off, Keyboard Cat.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
That's fucking awesome!

One thing, though: you'll really want to have your calibrations all done correctly the first time, because thats a LOT of jack nuts to take off to get the panel off again! Or, does the panel have little holes for the trimmers?
regenbot
w00t
zthee wrote:
haima wrote:
Will there be holes in the front panel for calibrating those blue trimpots that are on the fader side of the PCB?


Ofcourse!
kons
Wow... battery powered!! I wasn't gonna add the speakers but on second thoughts...

pair this with a zoom r16... and a volca beats... all batteries... I can go camping and beat all the acoustic guitars!
nickster
køns wrote:
Wow... battery powered!! I wasn't gonna add the speakers but on second thoughts...

pair this with a zoom r16... and a volca beats... all batteries... I can go camping and beat all the acoustic guitars!


An end to "Kumbaya campers" at long last. This is fun!
Slabwax
nickster wrote:
køns wrote:
Wow... battery powered!! I wasn't gonna add the speakers but on second thoughts...

pair this with a zoom r16... and a volca beats... all batteries... I can go camping and beat all the acoustic guitars!


An end to "Kumbaya campers" at long last. This is fun!


we're not worthy Oh the joy!
gwaidan
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
That's fucking awesome!

One thing, though: you'll really want to have your calibrations all done correctly the first time, because thats a LOT of jack nuts to take off to get the panel off again! Or, does the panel have little holes for the trimmers?


The original 2600 did, and looks like zthee's panel design has kept this feature....and unlike the original, zthee has labelled the calibration points w00t
Mitchk1989
I'm nowhere near good enough to build this yet. But I will buy a PCB and panel for when I am.
moog55
lol being able to take this to a park. hihi

once this is released, i can see a dedicated thread here - "My TTSH in the park".


pics and audio clips of park jams. hihi
zthee
gwaidan wrote:
...and unlike the original, zthee has labelled the calibration points w00t


Actually, early revisions had the holes labeled. If I ever do a black/orange I'll probably remove the text hihi
diablojoy
Quote:
once this is released, i can see a dedicated thread here - "My TTSH in the park".


pics and audio clips of park jams.


cool as long as someone does a rendition of Kumbaya

Quote:
If I ever do a black/orange I'll probably remove the text

I was kinda hoping for a black /orange panel to be available would go well
with amber led sliders , will be my first purchased panel too instead of DIY for once.
xpando
i want to do a blue anodized/white infill FPE panel for this. i've always thought the blue meanies looked really cool. i used to own a 2600 (grey face) and thats the one synth i really regret getting rid of.. totally miss it. but, at the prices they go for these days i would have sold it anyways. i'll never pay what they go for these days so i'll probably never own another one. i bought mine for under $2000 along time ago.

this project will be a way for me to have one again.. or 2 twisted

we're not worthy zthee
patchdub
holy crap!!! i've been away for a bit and come back and this is going on?!?!!

like many here its been a fantasy to just to see a 2600 in person. the closest i've been is arturia's, cool but its inside my computer.

there are so many reasons i should talk my self out wanting to get in on this but i can't.

many thanks zthee for all the hard work!!!!!!!

reeeeeaally excited for this! love the sounds you are posting, looking forward to hearing what you get out of this when you really have time settle into it.
nathanxl
xpando wrote:
i want to do a blue anodized/white infill FPE panel for this. i've always thought the blue meanies looked really cool. ]


Me too. Love the blue meanies.
I didnt think they were anodised though.
keithwin
Blue Meanie panel would be good smile
astroschnautzer
I like blue too thumbs up
Luap
Isn't it "Blue Marvin" rather than "Blue Meanie" ?
Either way I'll gladly slum it with a grey one thumbs up
zthee
I've been wondering how bad the slur was when it came out as "Meanie" instead of "Marvin". Or maybe it was the receiver who was hearing impaired from years of too loud music in the studio. I guess we'll never know...
plord
For hopefully obvious reasons, I would be down for a blue panel as well.
mike sheridan
Is this only going to be available as a DIY project? Or is it going to be possible to buy a finished build sometime?
Me and a soldering iron is a sign that the world is ending.... sad banana
zthee
mike sheridan wrote:
Or is it going to be possible to buy a finished build sometime?


There's been a few people expressing interest in building for others. I'll hopefully have a list of them on the website once everything gets rolling. So it should be possible.
elmegil
a few of us have piped up as being willing to builds for wigglers who weren't comfortable with a soldering iron.... zthee was talking about putting a section with a list of us in the FAQ or something, but I haven't double checked that it has happened. I'd rather he be working on the board right now anyway :-D

Edit: sorry for the redundant post....
zthee
elmegil wrote:
I'd rather he be working on the board right now anyway :-D


Me too! Stupid day job sad banana
moogah
keithwin wrote:
Blue Meanie panel would be good smile


+1

I'd prefer quality silkscreening over ingraving, but the blue panel look is smexy.

It's totally gluttonous, but the 2600 is so versatile I haven't ruled out building two of these over time... one blue one black/orange panel would be some sexy sauce.

.. one with sequencer, one with keyboard ... smile

*dear god this would be a great project to pair with Stite's finger controller
andrewF
here in Aus, a "blue meanie" refers to a particularly potent species of magic mushroom

zombie
roglok
blue meanie?

Luap
zthee wrote:
I've been wondering how bad the slur was when it came out as "Meanie" instead of "Marvin". Or maybe it was the receiver who was hearing impaired from years of too loud music in the studio. I guess we'll never know...


Not that it matters so much, but I had some time to do a little digging around..
http://discretesynthesizers.com/arptronics/arp2600.htm
http://www.vintagesynth.com/arp/arp.php
These appear to suggest that it was Blue Marvin, and the Grey Meanie. The latter seems to have been more of a nickname though. Not so sure about the former, but it does at least have a bit more reasoning behind it.. Still, its easy to see where the confusion could come from.

Is it September yet??
ashleym
Could there be mileage in another thread asking for peoples votes for which panel they want?

Blue- with blue LEDs in the sliders
Black and orange- with orange LEDs
Grey- with no LEDs!!!

With a 2 colour screen print (white and orange) the price would go up. I cant remember which filter does it have and therefore which panel is correct?

As an aside I prefer engraved to screen but that isnt very authentic or cheap. Perhaps I could learn to love the fading graphics in 20 years?? hihi
Slabwax
I'm all for letting the chef make the soup.
lysander
Slabwax wrote:
I'm all for letting the chef make the soup.


This !
Everything so far has been stunning, no need to complicate things by trying to customise it, let's let zthee do his magic.
mOBiTh
I'd MUCH rather have grey panels (x2!) than blue

reckon the blue looks tacky

the grey on the other hand is far more military submarine style and awesome hihi hihi
mOBiTh
PS: I'll happily do the soldering for anyone in the uk at a reasonable rate 8_)
analogdata
xpando wrote:
i've always thought the blue meanies looked really cool. [/b]


blue meanies
= music-hating creatures
fluxivity
I'm in virginia. I'll likely make one for myself, but would be willing to construct on other'ses behalf. depending on how the board fits in my assembley jig I coudl do 2 or four. that's mine plus 1 or plus 3. Its as easy to do multiple as to do one I've found.
Monobass
lysander wrote:
Slabwax wrote:
I'm all for letting the chef make the soup.


This !
Everything so far has been stunning, no need to complicate things by trying to customise it, let's let zthee do his magic.


Exactly. Think long term also, let the first run happen and then it'll surely mutate and proliferate. Doesn't need to be a flash in the pan.
cleaninglady
fade to grey... SlayerBadger!
diablojoy
huh amazing how things take off like that .
its early days yet, plenty
of time to consider personal aesthetics.
most importantly it sounds orsm.
cleaninglady
yes , this is a very lively thread ; expanding exponentially.
Moog$FooL$
moving to fast for me to even keep up with. hihi hihi
old man syndrome. sad banana
xpando
Luap wrote:
Not that it matters so much, but I had some time to do a little digging around..
http://discretesynthesizers.com/arptronics/arp2600.htm
http://www.vintagesynth.com/arp/arp.php
These appear to suggest that it was Blue Marvin, and the Grey Meanie. The latter seems to have been more of a nickname though. Not so sure about the former, but it does at least have a bit more reasoning behind it.. Still, its easy to see where the confusion could come from.


now im calling mine "blue meanie" for sure haha..

maybe we can get together and do a batch of blue faced panels.

how can you guys not like the blue 2600? seeing one in the wild is like seeing the spirit bear. the grey ones do have that cool military look to them but to me the blue faced 2600 has more "holy shit" factor.
Rod Serling Fan Club
So when do we start the live 2600 orchestra?
gwaidan
Funny I was just thinking of that today-imagining 4 people on stage just with glowenlights minimeanies rocking the house like Depeche Mode in 1981....
Isaiah
I'd been thinking about an 2600 duo, too!
Randy
About the keyboard, I don't know that much about the 2600 keyboards but it looks like one of them has an extra LFO, transposition and portamento.

Will any of this be duplicated on the new PCB?

Randy
zthee
Randy wrote:
Will any of this be duplicated on the new PCB?


There is nothing extra added to the TTSH. So it's exactly like the original.

The functions of the keyboard would be nice to include on an expander panel with the sequencer and perhaps additional modules. But this will have to come after the first run of kits are made. As I don't have time to develop it right now.
Randy
Thanks zthee. Just gives us something more to look forward to.

Randy
Slabwax
Zthee, If you announce that you are working on an expander/ sequencer box you're going to have most of us here flitting around like a gaggle of pubescent school girls waiting for a Justin Bieber concert.
xpando
zthee wrote:
There is nothing extra added to the TTSH. So it's exactly like the original.


does it retain the reverb? hyper
jarvis
You're bringing the unobtainable dream synth of many a wiggler within reach. Nothin' else to add here but a mighty big thumbs up! Your progress has been great to watch and am excited for the day you make the release announcement, whenever that may be.
zthee
xpando wrote:
does it retain the reverb? hyper


Yes.
gwaidan
Slabwax wrote:
Zthee, If you announce that you are working on an expander/ sequencer box you're going to have most of us here flitting around like a gaggle of pubescent school girls waiting for a Justin Bieber concert.


Considering the TTSH seems to have us already behaving like aforesaid schoolgirls waiting for a One Direction concert that won't be a stretch wink
diablojoy
Quote:
The functions of the keyboard would be nice to include on an expander panel with the sequencer and perhaps additional modules.

oh ... that would be so nice but as you say later on, sometime after this is sorted .
my bank balance may never recover otherwise .
stevieraysean
zthee

I can only second everything everyone has said about the awesome job you're doing.

including i'm in for one..

hell, I even showed my fiance and she said "i want you to build that"
wsy
Indeed, this is most excellent.

I've been looking around for a source for a keybed to make the CV keyboard with. No
luck yet, though cannibalizing a MicroKorg XL is looking better and better.

And I think I want to go from one kit to two.

One for me.

One for my son, when he's old enough to appreciate it.

- Bill
hamburgerlady
Fantastic work, zthee.

Count me in for one for sure.
raisinbag
wsy wrote:
And I think I want to go from one kit to two.

One for me.

One for my son, when he's old enough to appreciate it.

- Bill


I am thinking same thing, only prob is that I have two kids! Ahhhh.
wsy
raisinbag wrote:
wsy wrote:
And I think I want to go from one kit to two.

One for me.

One for my son, when he's old enough to appreciate it.

- Bill


I am thinking same thing, only prob is that I have two kids! Ahhhh.


Actually, I have three kids. But the twin girls aren't quite to the age where
such presents itself to my mental model of the world... and in reality, there
aren't really any presents that are "one kid only" - they don't really have the
concept down of "mine only" as it applies to them, because they've had to
share things like parents since they were born.

But I'm not worried. It takes longer to get 'em down at bedtime, but hey, it's still
pretty good.

And when the kits come out, I want some. :-) Just tell me where to send the money.

- Bill
rico loverde
this whole thing just absolutely blows me away. I CANT WAIT FOR THIS!!!!!
phillybuster
Just had to pop in and thank you for doing this brilliant project, zthee! You are fulfilling many a wet dream.
Can't wait to get my hands on that BOM-TTSH!!

here's to you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sumHPty0l8
zthee
I've updated my website to contain a bit more information. It will also be the place where I post all pictures / videos / sounds in the future.

http://thehumancomparator.net/
drox
awesome zthee it sounds amazing
xpando
man.. absolutely cannot wait! diy project of the year imo applause i didnt even think it was going to include the panel.

i would think this whole thing was too good to be true but i've seen the pics and heard the recordings.

regarding the speakers on the original. they werent very good anyways and that area often became space for mods so its no big deal to me that this is the only thing thats different. im sure its an improvement over the original.
bartleby
zthee wrote:
I've updated my website to contain a bit more information. It will also be the place where I post all pictures / videos / sounds in the future.

http://thehumancomparator.net/
Quote:
Q, What will the price be?

A, The exact price is not set yet. It will be announced on this site during August. But expect the build to cost $1000 without the case.

oh. i had been hoping for something closer to 1000 *including* the case.

o well, we'll see...
tojpeters
I'm wondering if anyone might be interested in a "uncommon parts" group buy? For those of us with a well stocked parts cabinet. Buying the parts kit may turn out to be cheaper. But What I want would be just things like the sliders,pots,odd value resistors or caps. Maybe ICs and transistors. Things I don't already have. I am not offering to do a group buy as I feel I don't have the post count nor the experience to pull it off. But I will help with building an order if that might help. I'm stoked for this project, and also have a couple kids that want to build one.
Monobass
tojpeters wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone might be interested in a "uncommon parts" group buy? For those of us with a well stocked parts cabinet. Buying the parts kit may turn out to be cheaper. But What I want would be just things like the sliders,pots,odd value resistors or caps. Maybe ICs and transistors. Things I don't already have. I am not offering to do a group buy as I feel I don't have the post count nor the experience to pull it off. But I will help with building an order if that might help. I'm stoked for this project, and also have a couple kids that want to build one.


As this is such a complex project I have considered doing that for sliders and tempcos as well as producing full kits.

Let's wait and see the BOM first.
Low-Gain
Monobass wrote:
tojpeters wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone might be interested in a "uncommon parts" group buy? For those of us with a well stocked parts cabinet. Buying the parts kit may turn out to be cheaper. But What I want would be just things like the sliders,pots,odd value resistors or caps. Maybe ICs and transistors. Things I don't already have. I am not offering to do a group buy as I feel I don't have the post count nor the experience to pull it off. But I will help with building an order if that might help. I'm stoked for this project, and also have a couple kids that want to build one.


As this is such a complex project I have considered doing that for sliders and tempcos as well as producing full kits.

Let's wait and see the BOM first.


Assuming it's not too much of headache and i get OK to do it, I'm likely going to toss together kits for these since i'll be building so many. Gotta see the BOM first obviously. It's not going to be a cheap project that's for sure.

Most of those faders are available via mouser. But the reality is, IF I did kit's i'd sell for profit as it takes A LOT of money up front and A LOT of time to make it happen.

I might skip the kit concept as time is very valuable to me right now and just plan to offer fully assembled units (again, with the blessing of the man) for those who do not want to build them.
Pfurmel
I think a group buy might work for the faders and tempco's, anyway. It will all become clearer when the BOM is ready, I would guess.
ringer
Great work, would it be possible to make the filter separate on a board, so one could choose the the topology they like, ie the 4075 filter, thanks.
lysander
ringer wrote:
Great work, would it be possible to make the filter separate on a board, so one could choose the the topology they like, ie the 4075 filter, thanks.


Dude read the FAQ on the website linked in the first post.
GlitchedOut
I so cant wait for this! woah
GlitchedOut
FINALLY an accessible way to get to a 2600!
keithwin


Brushing up smile
emdot_ambient
keithwin wrote:


Brushing up smile

And I'm growing my fro back in so I can be all authentic and shit. hihi

(Maybe you should put together the updated pdf version of that manual, yeah?)
Jason Rodriguez
Quoted from Bartleby's post, it seems that Zthee redacted this bit from his original post...

zthee wrote:
...But expect the build to cost $1000 without the case.


Well, I'm $200 away from paying for the first of at least 2 so if it can be made cheaper, good!
bartleby
Jason Rodriguez wrote:
Quoted from Bartleby's post, it seems that Zthee redacted this bit from his original post...

no, that quote wasn't from a post of his, but from the new faq on his website.
zthee
Isaiah
Rockin' Banana!
mckenic
So much progress, so fast! VERY exciting!

thumbs up
ashleym
As an aside there could me mileage in making the speakers and speaker system a bit of a beast. Perhaps using the front pair for mid and tops with a woofer or two in the cabinet driven from another amp. Then you can have a proper full range stand alone system

Please note I am not suggesting this needs to be incorporated in the design, its just an idea as to where this could go.
Jarno
Epic project!

applause
Christopher Winkels
Never before in the field of human endeavours has so much been accomplished by so few in such little time. w00t
appliancide
Zthee your work is always inspiring! applause
ian-c
plug me in, plug me in.
nathanxl
Trampoline Trampoline Trampoline Trampoline fap fap fap...
kbo
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! we're not worthy thumbs up
decaying.sine
Why yes, I am fluent in over six million forms of communication!
hamburgerlady
This is fun!
moog55
hyper SlayerBadger! we're not worthy
alain6870
Super synth,

Super project, I really want to build one.

Thank you for sharing this with us!

It's peanut butter jelly time!
zthee


Had a brief encounter with a real 2600 today. Did some minor tests regarding sound and functionality and came to some conclusions - In my ears the general sounds in the TTSH was like the original, the small differences you could hear was mostly due to different trimming settings.

Biggest difference was the speed of the envelope - The original was fast, but the TTSH is super fast - This could be attributed to modern components or maybe something else. But just a small push on the attack slider on the TTSH made them the same.

There's still stuff to do and things to sort out. But the quick test made me comfortable with the hole project. So back to remaking the circuit board and hope the next prototype is even better!
roglok
That sounds brilliant! applause
synthguru
zthee wrote:


Zthee - that is sounding great! applause

But, I am confused about one thing.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but in the video, it appears the top slider in the filter section (of the three horizontal sliders) is controlling filter resonance.
But, the filter resonance control should be the bottom of the three horizontal sliders - not the top one.
And, it looks as if the filter cutoff - coarse and fine sliders are the bottom two - which should actually be the top two.
Are these simply rearranged on this prototype?

Cheers! Guinness ftw!
Zon
xpando
zthee - this is a damn impressive project. i keep pinching myself every update because i can hardly believe its real.
zdarma
Incredible project. I cannot believe how quickly it has progressed.
wsy
Amazing... I was thinking to myself - "Ok, Zthree has the electronics and front panel nicely
under contril, but I'll still need a case.

I could go red oak/walnut, or I could build it right into an Anvil case, just like
my 28-MU carryon.

And lo, now I see that people have *already* built ARP 2600's right into Anvil
cases. Will wonders never cease!

Problem solved. Rockin' Banana!

- Bill
zthee
synthguru wrote:
Are these simply rearranged on this prototype?


Someone had somehow placed them in the wrong order. Unsure of how it happened. This, and a few other mechanical errors (mainly pots going the wrong direction), as been fixed to the next prototype.
Rex Coil 7
zdarma wrote:
Incredible project. I cannot believe how quickly it has progressed.
I keep hearing people say that. I don't think it's moving along any faster than any project that has the 100% focus of it's designer/builder. Zthee is simply demonstrating a good work ethic and the dedication that his brainchild deserves. He takes his efforts seriously, as well as the growing list of potential customers.
nickster
It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time!
Low-Gain
fuck'n hell! I'm so excited hahaha

SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
Monobass
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
zdarma wrote:
Incredible project. I cannot believe how quickly it has progressed.
I keep hearing people say that. I don't think it's moving along any faster than any project that has the 100% focus of it's designer/builder. Zthee is simply demonstrating a good work ethic and the dedication that his brainchild deserves. He takes his efforts seriously, as well as the growing list of potential customers.


And I thought *I* was contrary hihi
zthee
It's not moving faster or slower than expected. Everything is going according to plan. September is still far away, but there's still a lot that needs to be done!

I got some additional measurements of another 2600 the other day, which shows the dimension of the panels is between 1:1.947 and 1:2.054. This made me look at the panel design again, and I decided to make some changes, since I wasn't 100% pleased with the layout. It was just small stuff, a question of moving some things a couple of millimeters up and down, but it made everything so much better!

And like a butterfly in Beijing, these small things transformed into a storm, and I had to change quite a bit on the circuit board. So maybe half the stuff has been redone on the big motherboard and I also had to do minor changes on the small sub modules. Fingers crossed I didn't mess up somewhere.

The result is the panel is much nicer, and the board is now more "logical", components are grouped in clusters (E.g. if you're looking for the resistors associated with A25 they're now placed around A25. I tried to do it ARP/hippie style before and had everything all over the place. But honestly, it's just a pain!) which makes everything easier when you're looking for faults.

Hope to order the new version of the board by end of next week. It feels a bit too quick (I like things to sit for a while, to "ripen"). So it's scary doing things this fast. But everything should be alright.
decaying.sine
zthee, can I get you a coffee? a drink? a sandwich? a snack?
You deserve it man. This is going to be very special.
Paradigm X
decaying.sine wrote:
zthee, can I get you a coffee? a drink? a sandwich? a snack?
You deserve it man. This is going to be very special.


This.



This is fun!
demian
yeah, zthee defenitely deserves a sandwich! Mr. Green
zthee


This is fun!
decaying.sine
I'm buying. Do ice cream sandwiches need bubble wrap when shipped?
Christopher Winkels
decaying.sine wrote:
I'm buying. Do ice cream sandwiches need bubble wrap when shipped?


No, just anti-static bags.
zthee
Could you please ship it in a container of liquid hydrogen? It would be so cool to open that box and just have an ice cream out of it.
Pfurmel
How much will the ice-cream cost?
Can you mod it to add an extra ADSR?
Will it have spring Reverb?
Are you offering kits with panel?


Sorry!
acealive
great project, very impressive !
zthee
Pfurmel wrote:
How much will the ice-cream cost?
Can you mod it to add an extra ADSR?
Will it have spring Reverb?
Are you offering kits with panel?


A green / purple version would be nice! SlayerBadger!
decaying.sine
zthee wrote:
Could you please ship it in a container of liquid hydrogen? It would be so cool to open that box and just have an ice cream out of it.


For you, I might try to do this! I'd expect there would be shifty eyes at the post counter since it's going overseas.
zthee
Haha, made me think of - http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume6/v6i4/postal-6-4.h tml
decaying.sine
zthee wrote:
Haha, made me think of - http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume6/v6i4/postal-6-4.h tml


I think the ice cream sandwich just might find a similar fate to the water bottle.

"Never-opened small bottle of spring water. We observed the street corner box surreptitiously the following day upon mail collection. After puzzling briefly over this item, the postal carrier removed the mailing label and drank the contents of the bottle over the course of a few blocks as he worked his route. "

Drunken Homer Simpson
Dego
Ah that is why I never get my post order brides...

chinard
zthee wrote:


This is fun!


You covet my ice cream bar!!!

Low-Gain
lol lol lol hihi hihi
chinard wrote:
zthee wrote:


This is fun!


You covet my ice cream bar!!!

bwhittington
Dang it, now I want an ice cream sandwich, too.
bwhittington
moogah wrote:
It's totally gluttonous, but the 2600 is so versatile I haven't ruled out building two of these over time...


Only two? I was thinking of buying four sets of boards in case I really, reeally liked it. And I'm sure that won't be close to the max. Someone's going to build a 2600 wall. lol
decaying.sine
bwhittington wrote:
moogah wrote:
It's totally gluttonous, but the 2600 is so versatile I haven't ruled out building two of these over time...


Only two? I was thinking of buying four sets of boards in case I really, reeally liked it. And I'm sure that won't be close to the max. Someone's going to build a 2600 wall. lol


Despite what they say, more is always better Brian.
emdot_ambient

Mr. Green
From:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-57584974-235/the-sounds-of-star-trek -this-man-makes-them-happen/

The sign on it reads "PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH! Settings are critical."

Who needs digital patch storage?
twospartans
how exciting!
i'll be watching http://thehumancomparator.net/ for updates.
Guinness ftw!
Rex Coil 7
Monobass wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
zdarma wrote:
Incredible project. I cannot believe how quickly it has progressed.
I keep hearing people say that. I don't think it's moving along any faster than any project that has the 100% focus of it's designer/builder. Zthee is simply demonstrating a good work ethic and the dedication that his brainchild deserves. He takes his efforts seriously, as well as the growing list of potential customers.


And I thought *I* was contrary hihi


zthee wrote:
It's not moving faster or slower than expected. Everything is going according to plan.


Contrary? Interesting. 8_)
Rex Coil 7
Yo zthee .....

THIRTY EIGHT THOUSAND VIEWS.

You do realize you're going to be building these things for a long long time, right? This is a GREAT thing. You've really "hit it" with this product.

On the subject of being challenged by any potential rights holders, I wonder if anyone can shed light on how places like Creamware have done what they've done? Isn't what zthee has going on basically the same thing? I'm naive on such things, but after having seen a Creamware Prodessey on Ebay it got me to thinking about zthee and his wonderful TTSH.
doobedy
Rex Coil 7 wrote:

On the subject of being challenged by any potential rights holders, I wonder if anyone can shed light on how places like Creamware have done what they've done? Isn't what zthee has going on basically the same thing? I'm naive on such things, but after having seen a Creamware Prodessey on Ebay it got me to thinking about zthee and his wonderful TTSH.


It's a 40-something year old synth from a company that went under 30-something years ago. No idea if the ARP trademark is abandoned, but any patents are long expired, which is morally and legally a good thing.

Nobody has made an ARP for 30 years, and the same 3000 ARP 2600s have been circulating during that time. Screw it, this is the only way new ones will be made. And if anybody does decide to sell a commercial version, there would only be a market to sell to because of people like the ones in this ridiculously long thread.
Rex Coil 7
doobedy wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:

On the subject of being challenged by any potential rights holders, I wonder if anyone can shed light on how places like Creamware have done what they've done? Isn't what zthee has going on basically the same thing? I'm naive on such things, but after having seen a Creamware Prodessey on Ebay it got me to thinking about zthee and his wonderful TTSH.


It's a 40-something year old synth from a company that went under 30-something years ago. No idea if the ARP trademark is abandoned, but any patents are long expired, which is morally and legally a good thing.

Nobody has made an ARP for 30 years, and the same 3000 ARP 2600s have been circulating during that time. Screw it, this is the only way new ones will be made. And if anybody does decide to sell a commercial version, there would only be a market to sell to because of people like the ones in this ridiculously long thread.
It all sounds great to me, I hope zthee ends up being the "dot com" of ARP redux just the same way Roger Arrick has rebirthed the Moog type modular synth. I hope he ends up creating a fat retirement nest from his efforts over the next several years. Good for him, I say!

I'm all behind zthee on this (although I don't see myself buying one, not for a while, I'm too deeply invested in the existing system I have as it is).

Wow, just imagine a Tom Oberheim Patchpanel SEM and a TTSH, what a great pair of 1970s trippin machines. Or a pair of TTSHs... it's Heavy Weather all over again. I hope someone does a Frankstein cover with the TTSH as well, just cuz.

A modest Dot Com system, all made up from Box11s and built up like a Minimoog, an SEM, and a TTSH. That would be such a cool setup. No real reason, just because it would be like owning one of those rebuilt 70s musclecars. Add my 1962 Hammond A102, and my 1977 Rhodes Stage 73. Magic funtime beauty gorgeous shining happiness.

(Sorry, I've been listening to J-Pop again).
ashleym
Rex Coil 7 wrote:

On the subject of being challenged by any potential rights holders, I wonder if anyone can shed light on how places like Creamware have done what they've done? Isn't what zthee has going on basically the same thing? .


Did you know that the Creamware unit is effectively a custom controller for a software version of the 2600, where as zthee is making a real nut'n'volts version?
tojpeters
Rhodes 88 and Hammond B3 here. And a '68 Camaro convertible.
Rex Coil 7
ashleym wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:

On the subject of being challenged by any potential rights holders, I wonder if anyone can shed light on how places like Creamware have done what they've done? Isn't what zthee has going on basically the same thing? .


Did you know that the Creamware unit is effectively a custom controller for a software version of the 2600, where as zthee is making a real nut'n'volts version?
Well, whether it's VA or analogue, it's still exploiting the name, the branding, the identity of the device in question. At least that's how those that would defend the originators of those designs would portray it.

Again, to be crystal clear, I am not trying to cause trouble or saying that zthee is doing anything wrong. I fully support his (her?) efforts and think what is being done is needed, called for, and proper. So I don't want to be taken out of context.

BTW, I didn't know Creamware had done a 2600. I'll have to take a look at that.
Rigo
The creamware stuff is an Odyssey clone, not a 2600 clone

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan07/articles/creamwareasb.htm
roglok
Rigo wrote:
The creamware stuff is an Odyssey clone, not a 2600 clone

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan07/articles/creamwareasb.htm


sorry for being pedantic, but that's an emulation, not a clone.
Rigo
roglok wrote:
Rigo wrote:
The creamware stuff is an Odyssey clone, not a 2600 clone

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan07/articles/creamwareasb.htm


sorry for being pedantic, but that's an emulation, not a clone.

Given the quality of the emulation, one could call it a clone hihi
roglok
Low-Gain
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
doobedy wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:

On the subject of being challenged by any potential rights holders, I wonder if anyone can shed light on how places like Creamware have done what they've done? Isn't what zthee has going on basically the same thing? I'm naive on such things, but after having seen a Creamware Prodessey on Ebay it got me to thinking about zthee and his wonderful TTSH.


It's a 40-something year old synth from a company that went under 30-something years ago. No idea if the ARP trademark is abandoned, but any patents are long expired, which is morally and legally a good thing.

Nobody has made an ARP for 30 years, and the same 3000 ARP 2600s have been circulating during that time. Screw it, this is the only way new ones will be made. And if anybody does decide to sell a commercial version, there would only be a market to sell to because of people like the ones in this ridiculously long thread.
It all sounds great to me, I hope zthee ends up being the "dot com" of ARP redux just the same way Roger Arrick has rebirthed the Moog type modular synth. I hope he ends up creating a fat retirement nest from his efforts over the next several years. Good for him, I say!



If he doesn't i'd happily do it! smile

WOuld require a couple licensing deals though.
imbuedblue
SlayerBadger!
gwaidan
doobedy wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:

On the subject of being challenged by any potential rights holders, I wonder if anyone can shed light on how places like Creamware have done what they've done? Isn't what zthee has going on basically the same thing? I'm naive on such things, but after having seen a Creamware Prodessey on Ebay it got me to thinking about zthee and his wonderful TTSH.


It's a 40-something year old synth from a company that went under 30-something years ago. No idea if the ARP trademark is abandoned, but any patents are long expired, which is morally and legally a good thing.

Nobody has made an ARP for 30 years, and the same 3000 ARP 2600s have been circulating during that time. Screw it, this is the only way new ones will be made. And if anybody does decide to sell a commercial version, there would only be a market to sell to because of people like the ones in this ridiculously long thread.


Not to mention the filter design in the original was in breach of someone else's patent at the time....plus Zthee has been scrupulous to avoid making it a copycat clone, no mention of the ARP name and not even using the 2600 numerals, which would actually be legally defensible (just ask intel why they rebadged the 586 as Pentium...)
Randy
I gotta get out more.



Randy
zthee
hihi
wsy
First off: I am not a laywer.

Trademarks come in two flavors: common law and registered. Apparently
ARP and the G-clef logo was of the latter form. If you don't keep up the
registration paperwork and the ten-year renewal ($400 for 10 years) then
it expires and cannot (CANNOT!) be renewed.

Let's dive into the US Patent and Trademark Office and do a search on ARP.
Lookasee here: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4801:u4ug06.1.1

and type in "ARP" and you'll get 59 results:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4808%3A49z9rx.1.1&p_s earch=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl ~%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=ARP&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA2 %24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=S ubmit+Query

This shows us 59 uses of the characters ARP. Most are NOT for music.
(yes, I looked). There are five that are pertinent to music - and all are
pertinent to the ARP 2600. Here they are:

The newest one is:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4808:49z9rx.2.3
Note that it's dead. Note also the date: 2012. Alan Coppock tried to get it as a
trademark like the ARP G-clef and was refused- justifiably.

Then, back in 2005 - some guy named Joseph Brandstetter
tried to get it as a trademark. See:http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=docstate=4808:49z9rx.2.13 Again, it was
refused.

Here's another, from 1996. Note that the applicant is MOOG MUSIC!
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4808:49z9rx.2.37
Seems kinda slimey... but that was when Moog had no Moogs in it. Again,
it was refused.

And, back in 1971, what's probably the original ARP by Tonus Inc of Newton
Highlands filed (and got) a trademark on what looks like the ARP logo:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/jumpto?f=doc&state=4801:u4ug06.2.54
and
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/jumpto?f=doc&state=4801:u4ug06.2.55
(one for the G-clef logo, one for the ARP as letters). It was granted, transferred
twice (finally to someone we've never heard of) and not renewed. Thus, it is dead.

The important things are that all of these trademarks are "DEAD" according
to the US Patent and Trademark Office - that is, they have expired and cannot
be renewed.

It may be poor form to use the ARP logo, but I wouldn't worry about a lawsuit. Best
thing to do is either make a new logo based on the G-clef, or just get it
OKed with Alan Pearlman. He's still around and might appreciate the
recognition.

Caution: I am not a lawyer. And even if I were a lawyer, I could still be wrong.

- Bill [edited for clarity and because I clearly have no grasp of grammar]
Randy
Nice research! Joseph Brandstetter was the guy who attempted to bring back the Rhodes piano.

Randy
Randy
Okay, I got it:



Randy
Jarno
lol hihi
guillaume10
Well...what a very exciting project!!!
I am very interrested to construct one.
olga42
DIY project of the year 2013 unless something unexpected happens w00t
zthee
The second prototype was just ordered.
amnesia
sexellent!
brandon daniel
zthee wrote:
The second prototype was just ordered.




I'm in the planning stages of acquiring a friend's 2600, but this looks amazing. I want both!
DonaldCrunk
i like the idea of crowdsourcing the construction talents of the DIY community to spearhead the return of a vintage instrument like this. Korg releasing the MS20 as a complete unit was cool, but this is a different level of cool. for everyone of us that builds one for ourselves, there will be 50 people that want one but can't - a cool lil' extra source of income for those that choose to build a few extra.
moog55
zthee wrote:
The second prototype was just ordered.


great news, zthee. just curious about the approximate number of changes/corrections/optimizations you made to the second prototype. any idea?

thanks for your amazing commitment on this project.
zthee
moog55 wrote:
Just curious about the approximate number of changes/corrections/optimizations you made to the second prototype. any idea?


On the top of my head I had 5-10 traces going to the wrong place or missing. I've had maybe 10-15 resistor values that were wrong (Everything from slightly off (Is 12M in the schematics - should be 4k7, to is 100k - should be 120k), and I've had 2 missing resistor. There has also been 3 NPN resistors that turned into PNP resistors.

The control circuit for the internal clock has also been redone. The one in the service manual is the cheap version - But has now been changed to the earlier, better, version. I've also redone the LED circuitry.

It'll be exciting to see what I've missed on the next prototype..
zthee
I know there was a group buy years ago for 1k87 tempcos. Is there anyone out there with 4 left, willing to sell?
roglok
Maybe ask Monobass... He used to stock them at http://www.thonk.co.uk/
gwaidan
Elby stocks them!

(edit)

Well they used to but I now can't find them on their site-might be worth emailng Laurie.
magman
zthee wrote:
I know there was a group buy years ago for 1k87 tempcos. Is there anyone out there with 4 left, willing to sell?

I picked up some from the group buy that Synthcude did late last year, they are the KRL/Bandry ones, so a bit bigger than normal 0.25W versions.

PM me your address and I'll stick 4 in the post for you - anything to keep the project running on time.

Regards

Magman
aladan
zthee wrote:
There has also been 3 NPN resistors that turned into PNP resistors.


Wow... NPN and PNP resistors... no wonder the 2600 is such a unique instrument! *grin* lol

Thanks for the updates zthee, you rock! Rockin' Banana!
zthee
They're tricky those little trannies, they go both ways...
wsy
I really hope you're going to open up the results of your work- maybe not for a
year or three, but eventually... things like errors in schematics, better (early version)
circuits, getting it all to plug and play... yeah.

Dream/nightmare: Do a Two Thousand Six Hundred and Ten: take the TTSH and
add motor-drive sliders (plus the PIC chip or whatever needed to do reading and
servoing of the sliders.)

Then (modulo the patchcords) you'd have a 2600 with patch memory! AND YOU
COULD PAN BETWEEN TWO PATCHES! It's peanut butter jelly time!

Downside: motor-drive slider faders cost $20 a piece. Each unit would need
something like 50 sliders. That's $1000 right there. sad banana Maybe next year.

But seriously - please do consider publishing / GPLing your schematic and/or
the board layout. That way, the 2600 will never die.

- Bill
Pfurmel
zthee wrote:
They're tricky those little trannies, they go both ways...


applause
sylvainmoreau
.. something i don't exactly understand. will it be possible to have only PCB and sold all the parts ourselfs ? i red on a website that it would come "ready to mount"
zthee
The only information that is correct is on www.thehumancomparator.net

Q, What will the kit contain?
A, The kit will be 3 x oscillator boards, 1 x main board and 1 x front panel.

nothing will be prebuilt.
sylvainmoreau
Rex Coil 7
roglok wrote:
I'm gonna have nightmares for a month. This is some creepy shit.
Rex Coil 7
Regarding the Two Thousand Six Hundred. I think this is one of the most incredible DIY synth projects I've ever seen. I may buy a kit to have around for sometime when I have the time to build it. I'm not really super partial to the "ARP sound" or whatever (can take it or leave it) but the project is just so damned cool! My 1st synth ever was a brand new 1978 ARP Axxe that I bought by selling my racing dirtbike. I was 17 and had just been to my first "rock concert" (ELP). Of course I was destined to be the next great rock keyboard player of all time.

So while I'm not partial to the ARP sound (I like them all, ARP, Moog, Korg, PPG, and so on) I've always loved the sliders and ARP's block diagram graphics. I used to be such an ARP snob, I'd see the word "glide" on a Moog and I'd think "~Glide~ .. how stupid ... Moogs are for stupid people, it's called ~portamento~!" Haahaa. ARP's sortof clinical-lab look and feel really appealed to me. The idea of using a device made for some sort of audio laboratory to make rock music just seemed so .... COOL! They were covered with language that only someone that understood a synthesizer would know about. "~Glide~" ... how ... commoner. Heheh ...

I learned all about synthesis in a book written around lessons based on the ARP Axxe, way before I ever even got my Axxe. I also still have the Odyseey synth theory book written by David Friend (bought that at the same time as the Axxe book, late 1977). So I have ARP in my genetic material in certain ways,

Zthee's kit just strikes a monster telephone-cable sized GAS nerve within me. I really (really REALLY) don't have the room in my synth rig for it, or the time (or money) to build one ... but I'm just drawn to it.
Monobass
roglok wrote:
Maybe ask Monobass... He used to stock them at http://www.thonk.co.uk/


yeah I'll definitely have a restock in time for this project, probably a group buy too.
plord
I just took a look at the big pix of the assembled prototype in this thread.

Then I poked around the workbench, parts bin, etc. Aw yuss, I'm gonna save me some of teh monays on this project, chyeaaaah boyeee!

I'm plord, and I strongly endorse buying high quality bulk parts on a whim when you are flush with cash.
Low-Gain
Have you considered putting in a toggle switch for the envelope to go from normal to x4 x10 for envelope length? A friend of mine who owns a 2600 mentioned the original 2600 is already pretty snappy/short and you mentioned your clone was even faster.

While it's not original it might be cool to add in a spot for a toggle to switch between timing caps. just a thought seriously, i just don't get it
zthee
For the ADSR it's an easy mod that won't need extra pads - Just remove one 1uF cap and replace the other with a 2u2 (It's strange they used 2 x 1u instead of 1 x 2u, but the whole thing is crawling with 1u - Probably had a ton of them and it was cheaper...) and use the free pad from the missing 1u to add more parallel caps.

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-382673.html#382673 - Says doubling the caps doesn't do much. So you might want to try 10u, 33u and 47u for better effect.

The project isn't that modifying friendly to be honest, you'll need a very small switch to fit it between the panel and the PCB. It shouldn't be impossible though!

There's no extra pads for nothing so far, and it's not something I've really thought about. I'll think about it when I build the next prototype.
zthee
Also - A reason the TTSH envelope might be fast than the 2600 used a reference could be that the TTSH can actually have the sliders at 0. The 2600 sliders hit the panel before reaching the bottom, which could explain the difference in speed. If I bumped up the sliders on the TTSH just a millimeter then it was the same as the 2600.
zthee
I'll be demoing the TTSH tomorrow evening at EMS in Stockholm. It's between 18 and 22. Just drop in!

http://www.elektronmusikstudion.se/news/events/339-ems-diy-traeff-onsd ag-den-28-e-maj
raisinbag
I'll DIY me an airplane and fly on over SlayerBadger!
Jim's computer beats
Nice project! I'll be up for one!
Low-Gain
zthee wrote:
For the ADSR it's an easy mod that won't need extra pads - Just remove one 1uF cap and replace the other with a 2u2 (It's strange they used 2 x 1u instead of 1 x 2u, but the whole thing is crawling with 1u - Probably had a ton of them and it was cheaper...) and use the free pad from the missing 1u to add more parallel caps.

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-382673.html#382673 - Says doubling the caps doesn't do much. So you might want to try 10u, 33u and 47u for better effect.

The project isn't that modifying friendly to be honest, you'll need a very small switch to fit it between the panel and the PCB. It shouldn't be impossible though!

There's no extra pads for nothing so far, and it's not something I've really thought about. I'll think about it when I build the next prototype.


Cool cool.
Just thought i'd bring it up. Might worth implementing in the next prototype.. that way if someone wanted to they could at least drill a hole directly over where the switch would be installed and they'd have the option. wink Dunno though. Just thought i'd bring it up for your thoughts.
Christopher Winkels
zthee wrote:
I'll be demoing the TTSH tomorrow evening at EMS in Stockholm. It's between 18 and 22. Just drop in!

http://www.elektronmusikstudion.se/news/events/339-ems-diy-traeff-onsd ag-den-28-e-maj


I hear Stockholm is lovely this time of year. hihi
olga42
Christopher Winkels wrote:
zthee wrote:
I'll be demoing the TTSH tomorrow evening at EMS in Stockholm. It's between 18 and 22. Just drop in!

http://www.elektronmusikstudion.se/news/events/339-ems-diy-traeff-onsd ag-den-28-e-maj


I hear Stockholm is lovely this time of year. hihi


Sure is! Now that the riots are over us locals just gotta beware of raging drunks, tourists and the occasional sexually liberated polar bear roaming the streets looking for easy booty Dead Banana

May post some pr0n pics or at least put them in my Flickr or 500px.
bruce.cichowlas
Hi! I'm new here so I may make some forum mistakes. This thread is one of the longest I've ever seen. I've read some but not all.

I was an instrument designer at ARP in the mid 70's, so it is like deja vu to see some of the pics here, even the Blue Meanie 2600's. The 2600, 2500, Odyssey ! and original Pro Soloist were already products when I joined. They told me they worried I might be a spy from Moog when they hired me. I brought in my Altair 8800 (8080 based microcomputer with its original 256 bytes of memory, panel switches, output boards, etc.) and suggested that it might have a place in their music products. Some thought that was ridiculous but others took me seriously including Alan Pearlman and Phil Dodds. They financed me adding to it with a floppy disk and other peripherals. One of the most glorious sounds I've heard is when I had a stock ARP music keyboard wired through parallel ports to polyphonic keyboard algorithms I was developing, using it to control a bank of ARP Pro Soloists. The brass and woodwind choir effects, with different Pro Soloist patches on each part (like a real brass or woodwind quartet) player through the speakers Bose lent us sounded grand to me in my small secret lab in Newton.

Most everybody was impressed but wondered how anyone could afford it. So we went instead down the path of the ill-fated Avatar Guitar Synthesizer, reasoning that there were so many unaddressed guitar players. Through a series of other engineers and eventually an ownership change, the polyphonic keyboard technology emerged through products like the Quadra, Chroma and 16-Voice Piano. (I still have the 16-voice piano that was in Al's office.)

I largely agree with the story written through Phil Dodds and others. It really broke Al's heart. It was very sad times, but we went on. Phil Dodds, Al and I went on to do Selva and later Visage systems (in early video-disc). Al and I were close friends, though I haven't seen him in awhile. We were also neighbors. Phil Dodds and I were also very close friends and I miss him very much.

Since then I helped start Kurzweil Music Systems and also lead the Guitar Studio development team at Cakewalk. Currently, I am working at launching an iPad music game where players can play real notes along with their favorite songs, real enough that if they work to get a high score, they can probably walk over to a piano and play that keyboard part. Right now, music licensing is my biggest problem: http://realkeysmusic.com

It's very exciting to read about your project here. I think Al was so turned off by what happened when ARP ended that he stayed out of music for quite some time, but I am glad to see that it appears he is back in it again. You know how modular and analog the 2600 is. Joe Zawinul used to invert the control voltage from the keyboard (easily done with patches) to give himself a reversed music keyboard. He said that it inspired his creativity and keep him out of ruts. You can see it in some of his Weather Report videos on YouTube. I wonder if yours will do that just as well.

Bruce Cichowlas
bruce@realkeysmusic.com
Rex Coil 7
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
Hi! I'm new here so I may make some forum mistakes. This thread is one of the longest I've ever seen. I've read some but not all.

I was an instrument designer at ARP in the mid 70's, so it is like deja vu to see some of the pics here, even the Blue Meanie 2600's. The 2600, 2500, Odyssey ! and original Pro Soloist were already products when I joined. They told me they worried I might be a spy from Moog when they hired me. I brought in my Altair 8800 (8080 based microcomputer with its original 256 bytes of memory, panel switches, output boards, etc.) and suggested that it might have a place in their music products. Some thought that was ridiculous but others took me seriously including Alan Pearlman and Phil Dodds. They financed me adding to it with a floppy disk and other peripherals. One of the most glorious sounds I've heard is when I had a stock ARP music keyboard wired through parallel ports to polyphonic keyboard algorithms I was developing, using it to control a bank of ARP Pro Soloists. The brass and woodwind choir effects, with different Pro Soloist patches on each part (like a real brass or woodwind quartet) player through the speakers Bose lent us sounded grand to me in my small secret lab in Newton.

Most everybody was impressed but wondered how anyone could afford it. So we went instead down the path of the ill-fated Avatar Guitar Synthesizer, reasoning that there were so many unaddressed guitar players. Through a series of other engineers and eventually an ownership change, the polyphonic keyboard technology emerged through products like the Quadra, Chroma and 16-Voice Piano. (I still have the 16-voice piano that was in Al's office.)

I largely agree with the story written through Phil Dodds and others. It really broke Al's heart. It was very sad times, but we went on. Phil Dodds, Al and I went on to do Selva and later Visage systems (in early video-disc). Al and I were close friends, though I haven't seen him in awhile. We were also neighbors. Phil Dodds and I were also very close friends and I miss him very much.

Since then I helped start Kurzweil Music Systems and also lead the Guitar Studio development team at Cakewalk. Currently, I am working at launching an iPad music game where players can play real notes along with their favorite songs, real enough that if they work to get a high score, they can probably walk over to a piano and play that keyboard part. Right now, music licensing is my biggest problem: http://realkeysmusic.com

It's very exciting to read about your project here. I think Al was so turned off by what happened when ARP ended that he stayed out of music for quite some time, but I am glad to see that it appears he is back in it again. You know how modular and analog the 2600 is. Joe Zawinul used to invert the control voltage from the keyboard (easily done with patches) to give himself a reversed music keyboard. He said that it inspired his creativity and keep him out of ruts. You can see it in some of his Weather Report videos on YouTube. I wonder if yours will do that just as well.

Bruce Cichowlas
bruce@realkeysmusic.com
This is an amazing entry. Encouragement from someone that was actually on the ARP team in the 1970s is about the best pat on the back I think one could ask for.

Bruce if I may say, many of us are old enough to have had a new ARP as our very first synthesizers. My very first synth was a new Axxe I bought in 1978, and like many of us that first synthesizer literally changed my life. I feel a sortof romantic attachment to the early ARPS as anything from ARP of that era. Your contribution to this thread is simply wonderful.

I hope your voice in this project thread will serve to further motivate it's completion and drive it to an even more refined end.

Thanks for taking the time to provide us with a great historical point of view.

Best wishes.
Christopher Winkels
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
Hi! I'm new here so I may make some forum mistakes. This thread is one of the longest I've ever seen. I've read some but not all.

I was an instrument designer at ARP in the mid 70's, so it is like deja vu to see some of the pics here, even the Blue Meanie 2600's. The 2600, 2500, Odyssey ! and original Pro Soloist were already products when I joined. They told me they worried I might be a spy from Moog when they hired me. I brought in my Altair 8800 (8080 based microcomputer with its original 256 bytes of memory, panel switches, output boards, etc.) and suggested that it might have a place in their music products. Some thought that was ridiculous but others took me seriously including Alan Pearlman and Phil Dodds. They financed me adding to it with a floppy disk and other peripherals. One of the most glorious sounds I've heard is when I had a stock ARP music keyboard wired through parallel ports to polyphonic keyboard algorithms I was developing, using it to control a bank of ARP Pro Soloists. The brass and woodwind choir effects, with different Pro Soloist patches on each part (like a real brass or woodwind quartet) player through the speakers Bose lent us sounded grand to me in my small secret lab in Newton.

Most everybody was impressed but wondered how anyone could afford it. So we went instead down the path of the ill-fated Avatar Guitar Synthesizer, reasoning that there were so many unaddressed guitar players. Through a series of other engineers and eventually an ownership change, the polyphonic keyboard technology emerged through products like the Quadra, Chroma and 16-Voice Piano. (I still have the 16-voice piano that was in Al's office.)

I largely agree with the story written through Phil Dodds and others. It really broke Al's heart. It was very sad times, but we went on. Phil Dodds, Al and I went on to do Selva and later Visage systems (in early video-disc). Al and I were close friends, though I haven't seen him in awhile. We were also neighbors. Phil Dodds and I were also very close friends and I miss him very much.

Since then I helped start Kurzweil Music Systems and also lead the Guitar Studio development team at Cakewalk. Currently, I am working at launching an iPad music game where players can play real notes along with their favorite songs, real enough that if they work to get a high score, they can probably walk over to a piano and play that keyboard part. Right now, music licensing is my biggest problem: http://realkeysmusic.com

It's very exciting to read about your project here. I think Al was so turned off by what happened when ARP ended that he stayed out of music for quite some time, but I am glad to see that it appears he is back in it again. You know how modular and analog the 2600 is. Joe Zawinul used to invert the control voltage from the keyboard (easily done with patches) to give himself a reversed music keyboard. He said that it inspired his creativity and keep him out of ruts. You can see it in some of his Weather Report videos on YouTube. I wonder if yours will do that just as well.

Bruce Cichowlas
bruce@realkeysmusic.com


Nice to have you here, Bruce. Great first post!
Rex Coil 7
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
....You know how modular and analog the 2600 is. Joe Zawinul used to invert the control voltage from the keyboard (easily done with patches) to give himself a reversed music keyboard. He said that it inspired his creativity and keep him out of ruts. You can see it in some of his Weather Report videos on YouTube. I wonder if yours will do that just as well.....
That struck a chord within me, and I remembered seeing an article written about Joe in "Contemporary Keyboard" (that's what "Keyboard" magazine was called back then) just after "Heavy Weather" was released in 1977. He spoke about that reverse scaling thing on his twin 2600s he called "Eins" and "Zwei" (German for the numbers "one" and "two"). I was very new to the synth world at the time so a lot of the information was lost on me.

I've spent the last hour or so digging through my extensive collection of old music magazines looking for that issue of CK. I haven't located it yet, but I will. It's right there with the first Gary Wright issue, and the Jan Hammer issue ... uh ... somewhere amongst that "archive" (that's the important sounding word I use to describe the sacred box of periodicals I have hauled around for decades. My wife uses a more eloquent term for that box ..... "crappy old magazines".

thumbs up

Thanks for bringing up old memories Bruce.





(Thread relevance = This has set the hook. I'm putting my name on the interest list Zthee. Even if I don't get around to building the TTSH for a bit I'm definitely getting in on the project now.)
guitarfool
Oooh, shag carpet! 8_)
zthee
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
Hi! I'm new here so I may make some forum mistakes. This thread is one of the longest I've ever seen. I've read some but not all.

I was an instrument designer at ARP in the mid 70's, so it is like deja vu to see some of the pics here, even the Blue Meanie 2600's. The 2600, 2500, Odyssey ! and original Pro Soloist were already products when I joined. They told me they worried I might be a spy from Moog when they hired me. I brought in my Altair 8800 (8080 based microcomputer with its original 256 bytes of memory, panel switches, output boards, etc.) and suggested that it might have a place in their music products. Some thought that was ridiculous but others took me seriously including Alan Pearlman and Phil Dodds. They financed me adding to it with a floppy disk and other peripherals. One of the most glorious sounds I've heard is when I had a stock ARP music keyboard wired through parallel ports to polyphonic keyboard algorithms I was developing, using it to control a bank of ARP Pro Soloists. The brass and woodwind choir effects, with different Pro Soloist patches on each part (like a real brass or woodwind quartet) player through the speakers Bose lent us sounded grand to me in my small secret lab in Newton.

Most everybody was impressed but wondered how anyone could afford it. So we went instead down the path of the ill-fated Avatar Guitar Synthesizer, reasoning that there were so many unaddressed guitar players. Through a series of other engineers and eventually an ownership change, the polyphonic keyboard technology emerged through products like the Quadra, Chroma and 16-Voice Piano. (I still have the 16-voice piano that was in Al's office.)

I largely agree with the story written through Phil Dodds and others. It really broke Al's heart. It was very sad times, but we went on. Phil Dodds, Al and I went on to do Selva and later Visage systems (in early video-disc). Al and I were close friends, though I haven't seen him in awhile. We were also neighbors. Phil Dodds and I were also very close friends and I miss him very much.

Since then I helped start Kurzweil Music Systems and also lead the Guitar Studio development team at Cakewalk. Currently, I am working at launching an iPad music game where players can play real notes along with their favorite songs, real enough that if they work to get a high score, they can probably walk over to a piano and play that keyboard part. Right now, music licensing is my biggest problem: http://realkeysmusic.com

It's very exciting to read about your project here. I think Al was so turned off by what happened when ARP ended that he stayed out of music for quite some time, but I am glad to see that it appears he is back in it again. You know how modular and analog the 2600 is. Joe Zawinul used to invert the control voltage from the keyboard (easily done with patches) to give himself a reversed music keyboard. He said that it inspired his creativity and keep him out of ruts. You can see it in some of his Weather Report videos on YouTube. I wonder if yours will do that just as well.

Bruce Cichowlas
bruce@realkeysmusic.com


Hi Bruce,

Fantastic first post! Glad to have you here!
Rex Coil 7
guitarfool wrote:
Oooh, shag carpet! 8_)
Green 1977 shag carpet.

thumbs up
sealion
Re logo/name. Seems to me its a ZT2600 or 2600ZT? On the big pics of the back of the pcbs, those heatsinks bug me somehow. Thinking about it in a closed case I'd wonder if you will have heat tuning issues with the middle oscillator boards. As soon as I saw those heatsink wings I wanted to turn them 90 degrees. The speakers will pump air but I think they will be sucking in cool over those sinks and it will be gathering heat which rises straight up the PCB to OSC 2? Right now its an open prototype, but a case is a closed environment.. I'd test it in a tightly sealed box with thermal monitors for heat spots there. I'd hate to see a wave of similar failures a year or two out.
zthee
THC 2600. But I prefer TTSH, sounds more fun!
Moog$FooL$
TTSH thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up

RC7..... love those black & white gear porn shots. thumbs up
zthee
sealion wrote:
On the big pics of the back of the pcbs, those heatsinks bug me somehow. Thinking about it in a closed case I'd wonder if you will have heat tuning issues with the middle oscillator boards. As soon as I saw those heatsink wings I wanted to turn them 90 degrees. The speakers will pump air but I think they will be sucking in cool over those sinks and it will be gathering heat which rises straight up the PCB to OSC 2? Right now its an open prototype, but a case is a closed environment.. I'd test it in a tightly sealed box with thermal monitors for heat spots there. I'd hate to see a wave of similar failures a year or two out.


I think the sinks I'm using are too large. The orientation has been changed on the next board.

If heat is a problem, then the option to mount them on wires away from the board is always possible.
Rex Coil 7
Moog$FooL$ wrote:
TTSH thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up

RC7..... love those black & white gear porn shots. thumbs up
That was my massive super killer keyboard rig when I first got into playing keys. Photos taken in 1978, that was my bedroom. 1967(?) Hammond M100 that I used to call "The Barbarian" and my brand new ARP Axxe Super Synth that was going to help me rule the progressive rock world with my megabitchen riffs and over the top keyboard playing ability. The world was to bow before me.

meh (dreams of a 17 year old .... )
Moog$FooL$
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Moog$FooL$ wrote:
TTSH thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up

RC7..... love those black & white gear porn shots. thumbs up
That was my massive super killer keyboard rig when I first got into playing keys. Photos taken in 1978, that was my bedroom. 1967(?) Hammond M100 that I used to call "The Barbarian" and my brand new ARP Axxe Super Synth that was going to help me rule the progressive rock world with my megabitchen riffs and over the top keyboard playing ability. The world was to bow before me.

meh (dreams of a 17 year old .... )


hihi lol hihi

the guts of that Hammond are......... woah
Rex Coil 7
Moog$FooL$ wrote:

the guts of that Hammond are......... woah
........ a fire hazard!

It was in bad shape when I bought it. I did what I could to get it running properly. It was in a state of repair when I shot that picture. Within a month I had built a "chopper" cabinet in woodshop at high school for it. I had it for about 4 years, it was used in countless gigs at many bars and clubs during that time. I played it constantly, and it was my rockin' bone for those years. I had it working pretty good within about 6 months after those pics were taken.

Sold it about 1982 for $330 to a local music store. That thing screamed, I had modded it to connect to guitar amps, used a Boss flanger as my "Leslie". That was one pissed off organ.
Paradigm X
zthee wrote:
TTSH sounds more fun!


yeah, TTSH is the best name.

So impressed with this zthee, thanks !
Rex Coil 7
Paradigm X wrote:
zthee wrote:
TTSH sounds more fun!


yeah, TTSH is the best name.

So impressed with this zthee, thanks !
yup yup!
bruce.cichowlas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5c3H6LpLZI

Here's one with Joe Zawinul's inverted keyboard. It's very obvious around 1:55. This was one big advantage of ARP's 1 volt/octave system. Previous systems were generally proportional to frequency and therefore exponential. Another big advantage to ARP was it's stability under the heat of stage lighting. That was due largely to Al Pearlman's excellent work with op-amps. (I was originally hired as an op-amp engineer at ARP, but I brought in microprocessors so ended up working largely on the digital side.)

ARP and Moog were quite competitive, but Al Pearlman and Bob Moog were both outstanding gentle leaders. When I headed up engineering at the beginning at Kurzweil, I was privileged to have the company bring in people like Al, Bob, Mike Bridgida, and Phil Dodds. Phil eventually succeeded me as Engineering VP. I'm still in touch with Mike, who is a professor at Berklee now. At ARP, Mike, Roger Powell (of Utopia, David Bowie, etc.) and Tom Piggott frequently performed at events in the parking lot. Al had a bus system set up so that people from the inner city could get out to ARP to work on those 2600 assembly lines. Phil was head of customer service at the time. That's Phil at the synthesizer in this scene from Close Encounters Of The Third Kind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25nlve7ZajE

I almost got that gig. We were asked to set up a synthesizer like device for the scene. David Friend (now of FaxNet, Carbonite, etc.) was Director Of Engineering at ARP at the time and did now want to lose an engineer for weeks at Hollywood, so he sent Phil Dodds instead. It wasn't supposed to be a movie role, but when they saw how good Phil looked at the synthesizer, he was given a part. When he came back, he told me about all he had to do to join an actors' union, etc.

Is that an L-100? I used to play one, but it eventually became hard to repair. Tough to haul around on gigs, but I used to do it.

Bruce





Rex Coil 7 wrote:
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
....You know how modular and analog the 2600 is. Joe Zawinul used to invert the control voltage from the keyboard (easily done with patches) to give himself a reversed music keyboard. He said that it inspired his creativity and keep him out of ruts. You can see it in some of his Weather Report videos on YouTube. I wonder if yours will do that just as well.....
That struck a chord within me, and I remembered seeing an article written about Joe in "Contemporary Keyboard" (that's what "Keyboard" magazine was called back then) just after "Heavy Weather" was released in 1977. He spoke about that reverse scaling thing on his twin 2600s he called "Eins" and "Zwei" (German for the numbers "one" and "two"). I was very new to the synth world at the time so a lot of the information was lost on me.

I've spent the last hour or so digging through my extensive collection of old music magazines looking for that issue of CK. I haven't located it yet, but I will. It's right there with the first Gary Wright issue, and the Jan Hammer issue ... uh ... somewhere amongst that "archive" (that's the important sounding word I use to describe the sacred box of periodicals I have hauled around for decades. My wife uses a more eloquent term for that box ..... "crappy old magazines".

thumbs up

Thanks for bringing up old memories Bruce.





(Thread relevance = This has set the hook. I'm putting my name on the interest list Zthee. Even if I don't get around to building the TTSH for a bit I'm definitely getting in on the project now.)
Low-Gain
This thread just got so much cooler. It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners nanners
Rex Coil 7
Low-Gain wrote:
This thread just got so much cooler. It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners nanners
By an order of magnitude.
Rex Coil 7
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
....Is that an L-100? I used to play one, but it eventually became hard to repair. Tough to haul around on gigs, but I used to do it....
M100, 1967 or so. Paid $300 for it in 1978 barely working, sold it for $330 in 1982 with it screaming like a hell demon and working well.
Pfurmel
Low-Gain wrote:
This thread just got so much cooler. It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners nanners


Yep, and I didn't think it was possible, either.

nanners
tojpeters
This is my current rig. An early Hammond L-100 The lower manual is wired to a MFOS keyboard controller board. Of course there is a line out so the organ can be played through/modified by the modules
bruce.cichowlas
Thanks Those L-100 pics are neat. Mine was the style in French Provincial, which didn't hold up well on the road. Sometime maybe I'll post my PAIA synth pictures or the ARP 16-voice piano. Though my current music game is a keyboard game, my most recent gig was on an AKAI EWI (USB model), which is a synthesizer but not a keyboard instrument at all. Fun, though. I'm currently using the SampleTank software on an iPad Mini. The patches are reasonably expressive with an EWI. It feels strange, though, to only need to make one trip from the car.
Rex Coil 7
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
Thanks Those L-100 pics are neat. Mine was the style in French Provincial, which didn't hold up well on the road. Sometime maybe I'll post my PAIA synth pictures or the ARP 16-voice piano. Though my current music game is a keyboard game, my most recent gig was on an AKAI EWI (USB model), which is a synthesizer but not a keyboard instrument at all. Fun, though. I'm currently using the SampleTank software on an iPad Mini. The patches are reasonably expressive with an EWI. It feels strange, though, to only need to make one trip from the car.
My current Hammond is a 1962 A102 (French Provincial furniture ... aka "bendy leg"). I set up a line out on it, made a 3 channel attenuator and run it out to a Leslie that has had the amp removed and replaced with a Marshall Lead/Bass amplifier. I'm sortof a Keith Emerson fan, so while I am not using Hiwatt amps to drive my Leslie, it's still a plenty killer rock organ sound. The 3 channel attenuator brings the Hammond's preamp output level down from 3v to line level, and the 3 channels are set up like FX loops that allow 3 different channels of overdrives, distortions, delays, whathaveyou. I've named this rig The Preacher.

meh
Rex Coil 7
tojpeters wrote:
This is my current rig. An early Hammond L-100 The lower manual is wired to a MFOS keyboard controller board. Of course there is a line out so the organ can be played through/modified by the modules
Holy crap .. so you actually went in and tapped off of one of the nine contacts on the Hammond kybd for each switch? I had planned on doing that but using either the Highly Liquid midi converter or the Midipedals.Com midi converter pcb to do that and give me midi note on for the lower manual. But my A102 is a console so it requires 61 contacts installed rather than th3 44 that your L100 does. I'm currently using the Midipedals.com CYGNUS pcb to convert 13 pedal organ bass pedals to midi pedals. Nice and easy to do, and provides me with 13 no/nc footswitches for interfacing with my modular and/or any other momentary switch needs. I use it to switch pickups on my bass guitar, using a dot com pedal interface and a dot com switch module and a dot com 4channel mixer. Works neat.

Pretty cool that you have 1v/oct on you Hammond, I suppose midi can get you there as well with an interface. I'd like to see your work if you can post a link to some pics or thread about how you did the retrofit, if it's ok?
tojpeters
Can't remember if i took pics, but I usually do. The lower manual is split, the offset keys have a separate controller. So I gave up 2 drawbars on the lower. Eventually the upper manual will get a similar 1v/oct ,gate and trigger treatment also (no split), but I am considering midi also on that. I am adding pitch bend and mod wheels and a joystick or 2 to the L.H. cheekblock. already have an octave select. Really like the MFOS controller, it sends triggers on each new note even while playing legato. You could ask Ray if he thinks you could stretch the controller to 61 keys. I think it would. Easy (ish) job, the resistor chain is soldered directly to the contacts. Feel free to contact me for any tech questions, but maybe this is enough thread hijacking. I'm getting 3 of the ZARP 2600 sets. Both my older kids want to build one. And yeah those french provincial legs can be snapped of by a vacuum cleaner.
zthee
If its happening here and now, its supposed to happen here and now. So keep it happening!

It's not thread hijacking. It's fun and exciting stuff!
Low-Gain
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
zthee wrote:
If its happening here and now, its supposed to happen here and now. So keep it happening!

It's not thread hijacking. It's fun and exciting stuff!
Rex Coil 7
It's all relevant, there are many of us that would love to be able to control the TTSH with a Hammond keyboard.

And like zthee said .. this is live, this is happening, this is coversation amongst synthesizer enthusiasts about synthesizers. It won't ramble on and hijack anything. There's far too much to discuss about the TTSH for this thread to wander any longer than a half page or so at a time.

Man I love this stuff! Hammonds and analogue synths ... there's nothing as DIY and modable other than FX pedals that offers so much return of satisfaction. Volts, amperes, and mechanical machines that make music and sound. It's all so .... I dunno .... analogue!
Paradigm X
Low-Gain wrote:
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
zthee wrote:
If its happening here and now, its supposed to happen here and now. So keep it happening!

It's not thread hijacking. It's fun and exciting stuff!


thumbs up
tojpeters
Thanks for the kind words. I could not find pics. I'll do a post with pics when I do the upper manual. i'll be glad to help anyone who wants to modify a Hammond. i'd say skill level involved would be along the lines of adding foldback to a spinet or less. The main worry I had before doing mine was crosstalk causing an unstable output from the keyboard controller but that seems to be no problem. The MFOS board is designed for 36 keys but I asked Ray about stretching it out for the full manual and he thinks it will work. I'm not sure about a full console manual but probably. Or you could always do a split.
moog55
Awesome thread is awesome. SlayerBadger!

This project is mini documentary worthy too, IMO.
Rex Coil 7
tojpeters wrote:
Thanks for the kind words. I could not find pics. I'll do a post with pics when I do the upper manual. i'll be glad to help anyone who wants to modify a Hammond. i'd say skill level involved would be along the lines of adding foldback to a spinet or less. The main worry I had before doing mine was crosstalk causing an unstable output from the keyboard controller but that seems to be no problem. The MFOS board is designed for 36 keys but I asked Ray about stretching it out for the full manual and he thinks it will work. I'm not sure about a full console manual but probably. Or you could always do a split.


Or if one wishes to go midi output (then any midi-cv interface could be used to convert it to 1v/oct) then the Highly Liquid setup can be installed using what is known as a "switch matrix" ...

Webpage ... http://store.highlyliquid.com/collections/midi-controllers/products/mi di-cpu

PDF of installation ... http://highlyliquid.com/support/docs/pdf/MIDI-CPU-Hardware-Rev-K.pdf

One board is good for up to 128 switch inputs.

Highly Liquid also makes boards that are midi decoders. A MIDI decoder accepts MIDI input and can generate one of several output types: relay, logic signal, digital potentiometer, or servo control signal.

http://store.highlyliquid.com/collections/midi-decoders

I can only imagine what some of the brighter members around here could dream up with this type of stuff to interface with modulars such as the TTSH.
brandon daniel
I recommend the HL decoders, I used one to build a midi-> trigger converter I have running euro rack drum modules.
CZ Rider
Let's not forget the oldschool method of interfacing a Hammond or any instrument using the TTSH envelope follower. Really looking forward to trying this out with the TTSH. One of the many great features one could spend hours exploring.
ARP's and Hammond's and Moog's! This L has been chopped for giggin' ease!
tojpeters
Sweet!!
Rex Coil 7
CZ Rider wrote:
Let's not forget the oldschool method of interfacing a Hammond or any instrument using the TTSH envelope follower. Really looking forward to trying this out with the TTSH. One of the many great features one could spend hours exploring.
ARP's and Hammond's and Moog's! This L has been chopped for giggin' ease!
Wow .. the almighty OMNI II. I remember when Kansas released the album "Two for the show" (a good old 70's "double live" album). The OMNI II was prominently featured in that album, you can hear it's powerful analogue strings throughout the entire thing. I wanted one of those kybds so bad back then. I considered it the holy grail of string machines, and it was a "polyphonic synth" too!

Your Odyssey is of the same vintage with the dual pitch pads and modulation pad. My Axxe had the same things. I never really mastered using the pitch pads very well. My Odyssey was the one just before the pads came out, it had the nearly useless pitch knob. My 2600 was a black and orange one, looked just like your Odyssey. I paid $200 for the Odyssey, $350 for the 2600. I sold them all in 1988 ("I'm never going to have a need for this old crap, my new Korg CX-3 organ and Korg Mono/Poly are all I'll ever need!")

d'oh!

I'm already figuring out how to reconfigure things to accept the TTSH into my rig. It will most likely end up right on top of the Hammond. I'll put the Dot Com system to the left, and scoot the rack over. Uh .. I think. GAS is blinding me of some lack-of-space realities in my case.

Moog$FooL$
Wow! Wow! Wow! Coffee Addiction FTW

this thread!!
Low-Gain
Interesting chain of events.. It looks like i'll have a real 2600 in my studio to compare these baby's to!
yay for local's selling 2600's and knowing the right people! hahaha
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! hyper
emdot_ambient
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
...My very first synth was a new Axxe I bought in 1978...

Same here. Same synth. Same year. Still have it.

In the 80s I bought a second AXXE and the ARP Sequencer. I did some refurbishing work on one of the AXXEs, but still need to do more work on it, along with a good deal of work on the other AXXE and the sequencer.

I've always had a fondess for ARP products. I've got a large keyboard stand in whan used to be a closet...always wanted to fill it with nothing but ARP gear and call it the ARP Alcove.

But old gear is such a commitment in time, money and trouble. That's one reason this project is such a godsend.

Would love to see someone clone the Little Brother, too. Odd little thing, but very useful!
Rex Coil 7
Low-Gain wrote:
Interesting chain of events.. It looks like i'll have a real 2600 in my studio to compare these baby's to!
yay for local's selling 2600's and knowing the right people! hahaha
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! hyper
That old saying is SO true .... It's not what you know, it's WHO you know.
nickster
I went down to EMS studios here in Stockholm last night as zthee was demonstrating the first prototype. Firstly a big thanks to Jon Nensén, the builders that were there at the meeting and to Daniel Araya who was hosting it so to speak. There were some other great audio diy stuff to look at including a Synthi clone, xoxbox etc.
But the star of the show was most definitely the TTSH mark 1. You will all be pleased to know that it sounded BRILLIANT. nanners
Bang on the button if you ask me.
The new sizing is actually a big improvement IMO. Makes for a more intimate performance. Also for people familiar with Euro format it will be a logical step out of the modular into the semi modular. What does hit me, which zthee also agreed, is that the original ARP 2600 layout is a stroke of genius in terms of ergonomic design. The placement of the sliders etc really lends itself to a special performance. ARP 2600 owners will of course already know this, but for those new comers to this synth it is good to know I guess.
zthee has done an incredible job by recreating this lovely synth and his infectious enthusiasm for this project is evident when you talk with him about it. I, like everyone else can't wait for the final pcbs and faceplate to be made available. This is going to be a long summer now but with plenty of time to decide what style of case to have. Here are some pictures from the meet up which I hope no one minds me posting.


[/img]
amnesia
thanks!
Mongo1
Somebody really needs to develop a plexiglass panel for that monster SlayerBadger!

Gary
bruce.cichowlas
I'm guessing most of you are familiar with the material here: http://sonic.net/mjones/archive/docs/

Those ARPegios sure bring back memories. And, yes, it was that great to work at ARP, though as you probably know it was very difficult for any music company in the US to succeed. Patent wars were always going on and the patents that were approved and those rejected seemed to have no rhyme or reason. I especially remember David Friend being very frustrated about it. I could say a lot more on that subject. When Ray Kurzweil, myself and a few others were starting Kurzweil Music Systems (then Kurzweil Magna Systems to keep it secret), I remember that we were approached by Wurlitzer asking if we were perhaps interested in purchasing them. That seemed unbelievable --- a new music startup being approached to buy such a venerable music company of electric piano fame (I have one) and, of course, The Mighty Wurlitzer theatre organ. But shortly after they were acquired by Baldwin. It was tough to be an American musical instrument company and probably still is. I was really pleased to see First Act move into the 320 Needham Street, Newton, MA space a few years ago. I know an engineer that works with them.

In the ARPegios, there are pics of Gary Wright ("Dream Weaver") with the ARP (Solina) String Ensemble. While i was there, that was the only product that we imported and hadn't developed in-house. But it was very successful. So successful that periodically there would be large stacks of the wooden crates in which they were imported from Italy. I asked if I could have some and built bookcases for my house. I think I still have a few.

Looking at the TTSH actual circuit boards with the speakers alongside them is pretty eerie for me. I remember so well seeing very similar looking things in long rows on the manufacturing and test lines at 320 Needham Street. Glad to hear that it sounds great. You can try out the patches in the 2600 book. I particularly remember "Primeval Forest" and "Oh, Yeah!"
CZ Rider
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
I'm guessing most of you are familiar with the material here: http://sonic.net/mjones/archive/docs/

Hey Bruce, welcome aboard, and thanks much for those links!
Just finished reading the Bob Moog interview in Polyphony Vol.7. Great read, Bob talking about modular synth development and where he sees synthesizers going in the future from 1982. He was spot on. I'm sure there is more to discover in those links. Thanks again!
beyourdog
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience of the ARP Company with us ....

The ARP 2600 panel arrangement is an outstanding design by itself. Electronics, sounds is fun (bit dark and muddy though, but it brings warmness), but it really stands out by the cleverness of the panel arrangement,...outstanding possibilities and great ergonomics...

Due to the modular aspect of the VCos and filters/VCA at the back of the synth, it would be great to have switchable modules to change from an ARP to Moog to Korg filter..., a bit like what Studio electronics does with its voices... would be great, keeping the 2600 ergonomics and switching filter characters...,the 2600 being a kind of perfect template with your choice of filter 
I know it is not in the scope of this development but something people will probably arrange in the next years...
bruce.cichowlas
The 2-pole vs. 4-pole filter issues were at the time a lot that distinguished the Moog sound from the Arp sound. Many thought that the reason ARP used encapsulated modules was to keep things secret but the actual reason was to increase temperature stability. This was always a very important issue to Al, who was out of the engineering program at Worcester Polytech (WPI). Doing well with op-amps was a critical issue to being a music engineer when I joined ARP and my MIT degree was officially in Electrical Engineering, though my undergraduate thesis was for a software music synthesis program. That was a very unusual thing in 1970-71. (And, no, I'm not quite that old, because I had skipped two grades and started school a little early.)

ARP was starting to use a lot of digital circuitry, both CMOS and standard TTL when I joined. I was exploring such topics as doing inexpensive synthesis using Walsh functions (basically using square waves instead of sine waves to do additive synthesis). All that sort of research ended when all of engineering frantically worked on the guitar synthesizer. (Bob Singer did some really excellent demos and Ron Hoag of Grateful Dead "light guitar" fame did the novel polyphonic add-on pickups.) However, work on keyboard synthesizers resumed a bit after I left in the very capable hands of Tony Williams, Paul DeRocco and Leo Keightley, leading to the Chroma and Quadra.

I hadn't heard the 2600 sound described as "a bit dark and muddy" (which I know you didn't mean in a derogatory way). It's all relative, of course, and synthesizers are intended to be able to make any sort of sound, though at about that time John Chowning was desperately trying to interest American music instrument manufacturers in the results of his FM synthesis research. Not being able to do this, he ended up licensing it to Yamaha instead. (More at http://www.allmusic.com/artist/john-chowning-mn0000763633 ) This was a true tragedy for the American music industry. Yamaha built it into their highly successful DX-1 and others. You hear a lot of that sound in Toto. FM synthesis technology would have been very complementary to what ARP or Moog was doing and would have made percussive sort of sounds so very much easier.

But guitar synthesizers were so alluring. Even I had some of those feelings. 360 Systems had a nice one out, though expensive, finicky and fairly primitive, and ARP thought that so much more could be done. "Let's put the power of an Odyssey on each string.", we said. That was the plan. So I worked willingly on the guitar synthesizer, too.

Events can have weird symmetries. Quite a few years later, Greg Hendershott, founder of Cakewalk Music System (software sequencers, etc.) knew me through the Byte Magazine BITS bulletin board system and knew that I was a guitarist that understood music synthesis and software, even though I am much more a keyboard player than a guitarist. So he brought me in to do Cakewalk Guitar Studio, reasoning that there are so many more guitarists than keyboard players so it should be a huge hit. And it did do fairly well. It was weird to be walking around a company of mostly keyboard players being known as the guitarist in the crowd when in fact I was more of a keyboard player than a guitarist.

I play EWI (electronic wind instrument) in one band for charity events now, but I've always thought that a pedal steel guitar or something that imitated its controls would make a really excellent synthesizer controller. I believed in this so much that I had a pedal steel guitar I had built from a kit ( http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=161305 ) in my office or lab at both ARP and Kurzweil and bought some airplane rudder-game style PC foot controllers to try to build one up in software while at Cakewalk. I think it has so much potential because a pedal steel has natural portamento, but even beyond that it is probably the only instrument where one can transition smoothly in pitch between almost any two chords. (You can program this on some synths, but it is a lot of trouble.) For instance, you can go from C Major G-C-E to an E Major G#-B-E by just using the pedals to raise the strings playing the G a half step while dropping the strings playing the C by a half step. Then you add in the pitch transition in all 10 or 12 strings given by using the barre and you really can go from about any chord to any other in a really expressive manner. Even if you hate classical country music, I think you have to admire what the masters do in music from "Stand By Your Man" to "Teach Your Children Well". When I do play keyboard, I frequently use my pedal steel as the bottom keyboard. So I'm waiting for that kind of DIY project!
Rex Coil 7
I've been working on a similar project, in a more limited/primitive manner. I'm nothing even anywhere close to an enginner, I have no college education at all (I'm just a military vet with high school diploma with a C- grade average from a rural high school in southern Arizona). So I don't even pretend to be at any sortof developer's level.

Anyhow, I've taken a shredder's guitar with a Floyd Rose "whammy bar" bridge, removed all of the frets, and trimmed the body down to only slightly larger than an old VCR VHS tape. Just enough to mount the bridge and the pickups.

I've taken the same notice of how the slide guitar can be used as a super expressive "interface" between human and electronics. I run it though various envelope followers, distortion circuits, pitch trackers, and so on before it is fed into my modular rig. I've often thought that if someone smarter than myself could figure out a way to meld this ~interface~ with electronics, especially CV, it would be a wonderful instrument package. The Floyd Rose tremolo bridge has micro tuners to be able to tune the guitar from the bridge area, which provides me with a means of changing the chord that guitar porvides when using a slide. The next obvious upshot was to use a headless guitar bridge, which were not readily available until only very recently. They offer full tuning ability (instead of the limited stretch the Floyd Rose offers).

And of course the pedal steel is the ultimate tool for this idea. Not only do the pedals change chords, but also the knee bars. I've heavily investigated those instruments. My stalling point is their cost.

But someone with a few bucks, some understanding of guitar workings (pickups especially) and the will to advance this notion could produce a wanderfully expressive device that could easily be a integrated component in a synth system.

On the Avatar: I remember having a "record" of the Avatar that came free in Contemporary Keyboard. It was just like those records that you cut from the back of a cereal box. A vinyl record somehow bonded to cereal box cardboard. It was two, maybe three songs that demonstrated the Avatar's abilities. I bounced it over to 8-track and had it tagged on to the back end of a bootlegged ELP concert. I still have the tape, but I'd guess it is shot by now. But I remember the Avatar demo songs very clearly, and how it very much sounded like a synth and a guitar, without sounding at all like a heavily effected guitar, but a synth. It "sonically" sounded like an Odyssey but musically was obviously a guitar with string bends, slides, chords, the works. Man I had that recording for a very very long time. It was the only example of the Avatar I'd ever heard (that I know of). What was striking about the Avatar's sound is that it was obviously, very obviously, NOT just some guitar with two truckloads of FX piled on to it. It was a synth, no question. And it looked like a synth, it had that distinctive ARP aesthetic to it with the lab-looking block diagram graphics and signal pathway routings, and a sea of sliders.

Great stuff. smile

I wonder if there is any chance of getting the TTSH in the black panel with orange graphics on it? I know it isn't the "classic favorite" amongst the forum here but it sure is my favorite ARP look.
Rex Coil 7
Oh holy crap ... here's the Avatar record! Took me all of five seconds to locate it .....



Unbelievable! My entire senior year of high school just flashed before my mind ....
bruce.cichowlas
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
I've been working on a similar project, in a more limited/primitive manner. I'm nothing even anywhere close to an enginner, I have no college education at all (I'm just a military vet with high school diploma with a C- grade average from a rural high school in southern Arizona). So I don't even pretend to be at any sortof developer's level.

Anyhow, I've taken a shredder's guitar with a Floyd Rose "whammy bar" bridge, removed all of the frets, and trimmed the body down to only slightly larger than an old VCR VHS tape. Just enough to mount the bridge and the pickups.

I've taken the same notice of how the slide guitar can be used as a super expressive "interface" between human and electronics. I run it though various envelope followers, distortion circuits, pitch trackers, and so on before it is fed into my modular rig. I've often thought that if someone smarter than myself could figure out a way to meld this ~interface~ with electronics, especially CV, it would be a wonderful instrument package. The Floyd Rose tremolo bridge has micro tuners to be able to tune the guitar from the bridge area, which provides me with a means of changing the chord that guitar porvides when using a slide. The next obvious upshot was to use a headless guitar bridge, which were not readily available until only very recently. They offer full tuning ability (instead of the limited stretch the Floyd Rose offers).


That sounds really interesting with the guitar. Any audio? Pics? My own pedal steel was a $200 kit from Market-Rite in Detroit, but of course that was 1976 dollars. Though not at ARP, Dexter Bates, a power supply engineer at Kurzweil, was a pedal steel player,

Here are two early 2600 demo discs from YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKk5dt0vGbY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z5-81ZMuo0

I had forgotten to mention Dave Fredericks. He was unusual in that he was the guy in the company when I was there who had come from the organ trade. As a teen, I had demoed organs at the country fairs for an organ dealer. That was the sort of world he was from, it seemed. I'm not sure which particular brand it was. Though it was logical to come to ARP from home organs, it seemed that everybody else at ARP had come there from somewhere else.

Roger Powell had left ARP very shortly before I joined. Most of the engineers really admired Roger's work and I did, too, though I've never met him. We were the home crowd cheering for him when he went on to Todd Rundgren, David Bowie and his solo career.

And for those of you that are microcomputer fans, I had brought my Altair 8800 to ARP to suggest microprocessors could play a role in music products. (This was 1975.) Todd Rundgren was an early IMSAI owner and a microcomputer buff. And when I was with Ray Kurzweil starting Kurzweil Music Systems, what had encouraged Ray to think we could do something like the 250 was experiments he had done on his Cromemco microcomputer using 5 and 6 bit samples. He was amazed that the quality of grand pianos was so recognizable even with samples that small. I added that grand pianos could also be easily recognized even over cheap little AM radios. So that got us to thinking about what it was that made sounds so recognizable even under poor conditions. We felt that if we could capture that it wouldn't require anywhere near the memory of simply sampling every piano note at about six pressure levels for about ten seconds each. (That would have been a room full of ROM's at the time.) This led to the Sound Contour Modeling approach at KMS.

So it's not surprising that these cereal-box style records could capture people's imaginations.
fonik
zthee, i see you are using a plain open frame switching PSU (meanwell?) to power the unit. any issues recognized so far? i am thinking of blinking LEDs polluting the power buss, or ripple noise on the audio...
from the datasheet the regulation and the noise is much worse on these PSUs than on the linear ones.
beyourdog
Sir, thanks again for your great explanations,

What strikes me when I’m reading your comments is that it seems the US Synth companies did not jump on the correct wagon at the time (FM) and this bad move in terms of technology, although invented in the US was quite fatal to them...

Sir, some of the old-timers of the Synthesizer industry are back since some years as a lot of people now comes back to the Analog sound, Moog, Dave Smith, Oberheim proposes old and new products, would by any chance Alan Pearlman make a come back ?
Christopher Winkels
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
The 2-pole vs. 4-pole filter issues were at the time a lot that distinguished the Moog sound from the Arp sound. Many thought that the reason ARP used encapsulated modules was to keep things secret but the actual reason was to increase temperature stability. This was always a very important issue to Al, who was out of the engineering program at Worcester Polytech (WPI). Doing well with op-amps was a critical issue to being a music engineer when I joined ARP and my MIT degree was officially in Electrical Engineering, though my undergraduate thesis was for a software music synthesis program. That was a very unusual thing in 1970-71. (And, no, I'm not quite that old, because I had skipped two grades and started school a little early.)

ARP was starting to use a lot of digital circuitry, both CMOS and standard TTL when I joined. I was exploring such topics as doing inexpensive synthesis using Walsh functions (basically using square waves instead of sine waves to do additive synthesis). All that sort of research ended when all of engineering frantically worked on the guitar synthesizer. (Bob Singer did some really excellent demos and Ron Hoag of Grateful Dead "light guitar" fame did the novel polyphonic add-on pickups.) However, work on keyboard synthesizers resumed a bit after I left in the very capable hands of Tony Williams, Paul DeRocco and Leo Keightley, leading to the Chroma and Quadra.

I hadn't heard the 2600 sound described as "a bit dark and muddy" (which I know you didn't mean in a derogatory way). It's all relative, of course, and synthesizers are intended to be able to make any sort of sound, though at about that time John Chowning was desperately trying to interest American music instrument manufacturers in the results of his FM synthesis research. Not being able to do this, he ended up licensing it to Yamaha instead. (More at http://www.allmusic.com/artist/john-chowning-mn0000763633 ) This was a true tragedy for the American music industry. Yamaha built it into their highly successful DX-1 and others. You hear a lot of that sound in Toto. FM synthesis technology would have been very complementary to what ARP or Moog was doing and would have made percussive sort of sounds so very much easier.

But guitar synthesizers were so alluring. Even I had some of those feelings. 360 Systems had a nice one out, though expensive, finicky and fairly primitive, and ARP thought that so much more could be done. "Let's put the power of an Odyssey on each string.", we said. That was the plan. So I worked willingly on the guitar synthesizer, too.

Events can have weird symmetries. Quite a few years later, Greg Hendershott, founder of Cakewalk Music System (software sequencers, etc.) knew me through the Byte Magazine BITS bulletin board system and knew that I was a guitarist that understood music synthesis and software, even though I am much more a keyboard player than a guitarist. So he brought me in to do Cakewalk Guitar Studio, reasoning that there are so many more guitarists than keyboard players so it should be a huge hit. And it did do fairly well. It was weird to be walking around a company of mostly keyboard players being known as the guitarist in the crowd when in fact I was more of a keyboard player than a guitarist.



This background history is great stuff, Bruce!
bruce.cichowlas
beyourdog wrote:
would by any chance Alan Pearlman make a come back ?


That would be great on many fronts. Wikipedia mentions this: "Later, Pearlman advised Way Out Ware's Jim Heintz on the development of the TimewARP 2600 software re-creation of the ARP 2600. This is the only ARP 2600 software re-creation that Pearlman has endorsed." There's more about that product here: http://www.wayoutware.com/index.php That was in 2008. This has some audio and links: http://cl516.blogspot.com/2009/07/timewarp-2600.html

You can hear Al interviewed in 2006 here ( http://www.namm.org/library/oral-history/alan-r-pearlman ). That gives you some idea why he was such a great friend and business associate, not just at ARP. My life is busy and complicated these days with my startup, Real Keys Music, teaching technology part-time to elementary school kids using MIT's free Scratch technology ( http://scratch.mit.edu ) at The Brighton School in Framingham, and doing numerous consulting jobs to pay the bills. But I do very much want to get in touch with Al Pearlman again.
oozitron
OK, had to post my Hammond picture too...



and looky there what's sitting on it SlayerBadger!

These are from ~1982 or so...



this one is me and my cousin, now a kick-ass bass player!

Drew
ashleym
beyourdog wrote:
Sir, thanks again for your great explanations,

What strikes me when I’m reading your comments is that it seems the US Synth companies did not jump on the correct wagon at the time (FM) and this bad move in terms of technology, although invented in the US was quite fatal to them...

Sir, some of the old-timers of the Synthesizer industry are back since some years as a lot of people now comes back to the Analog sound, Moog, Dave Smith, Oberheim proposes old and new products, would by any chance Alan Pearlman make a come back ?


How about us poor Brits? We had EMS and EDP (and a few other smaller producers) and they jumped on no bandwagon!! Look at what they pioneered too. I think the big Japanese companies suffered with the FM revolution. The Rolands of this world had Boss and the computer side to support them. At the time they were making TB303s and who would ever want them?

Brilliant insights from the old days at ARP. I wont mention getting my Axxe off a skip...... seriously, i just don't get it
stromcat
ashleym wrote:
I think the big Japanese companies suffered with the FM revolution.


Yep, the DX7 has a lot to answer for. Personally I love the DX7, but it did rather 'change the game' design-wise...

1981:


1983:


1986:

bruce.cichowlas
stromcat wrote:
ashleym wrote:
I think the big Japanese companies suffered with the FM revolution.


Yep, the DX7 has a lot to answer for. Personally I love the DX7, but it did rather 'change the game' design-wise...



Something significant really had to happen in the user design area before synthesizers could become really popular. Some even complained about Al's great preset idea of having the jacks have "default" connections so you could quickly play it. They said it presumed too much about the user's intentions. But this is really an idealist view for those that are deeply into synthesis and can never become a view that is even understood and appreciated by the general market. So we always tried to make it possible for those people to program the meticulously crafted sounds that they wanted, but we didn't want this prerequisite of knowledge to be a barrier to the general musician.

"Make it easy to do the most wanted things." I think that is almost a necessary condition for a market success. After all, many of these musicians have multiple keyboards and they don't have the technical training, the time or the desire to make understanding a particular synthesizer thoroughly one of their life's ambitions. So one needs to respect that or else try just to sell expensive things to an esoteric crowd.

ARP made popular products and many were easily programmable. Yet I remember Phil telling me that when instruments came in for service, 95% of them had not had the settings programmed at all. Musicians were just largely using the presets that came with the product. (And, in a way, that was a compliment to the sound of the presets. Musicians were saying that just those few particular sounds made the instrument worthwhile to use compared with other instruments. And, of course, a lot of acoustic instruments have only sound to win your heart and it has to be good.)

So we learned that we ought to make the presets just as good as we possibly could. We also learned that any capability that was not used by the typical user within the first hour or so would probably only be used by a very few (the "power" users). These users are important, but our primary goal had to be to make sure that all users were getting the most benefit.

There's another big factor as well. Performing on stage is a real-time thing, down to the millisecond literally. Any setting change that needs to be made between notes has to be super easy, super fast and super reliable. Otherwise an important customer might be easily embarassed in a live performance situation. (In fact, at Paul's Mall and Jazz Workshop in Boston, some of us ARP engineers were on the permanent guest list whenever anyone was performing with a synthesizer, just in case something happened or if the act needed some setup help. I saw some great acts that way.) At Kurzweil, we hired Arthur D. Little to help with the interface design and I brought in some of my musician friends as test users. Lyle Mays was there enough to almost seem to be the company mascot. He played some great performances at Kurzweil.

So, really, patch cords had to go or the synthesizer would become a relic except for some studio work. We wanted a lot of people to have one and like it so designs at ARP were in for a change.
Rex Coil 7
oozitron wrote:
OK, had to post my Hammond picture too...



and looky there what's sitting on it SlayerBadger!

These are from ~1982 or so...



this one is me and my cousin, now a kick-ass bass player!

Drew
Nice Hammond M3. I have a 1955 Hammond M3 in my stable (which is for sale btw, asking $450). I added a line out, and speaker eliminator with amplifier dummy loads. Those M3s are wildly popular these days, they use the exact same schemes as the larger B3/C3/A100 series as well as the exact same console "waterfall" keys. They need some foldback work done to them to provide the B3 type sound at the extreme ends of the keyboards, but in the middle (roughly) 2 octaves they are pretty much indiscernable from a console (B3/C3/A100).

Those pics are just great! I love those kinds of pictures.

No matter what stuff is dicussed in this thread it seems to reenforce the desire for zthee's TTSH. Yes, these have been little side trips, but all of which seem to add to the reasons to want a TTSH kit for one's self. In an odd way, it is all very relevant.

And Bruce's presence has only poured gasoline on the fires! No matter the subtopics! It's like a subculture is developing.

smile
Rex Coil 7
One of my favorite aspects of the 2600 design is that it is like having MU modules with 3.5mm patch jacks. I really love the MU/Dot Com module format, but I don't prefer the use of the 1/4 inch patchcords on everything. The problem is that they stick out so far and make the synth feel as though it is much larger than it actually is. The 3.5mm patchcords make the synth ~feel~ smaller, even though the controls are larger and have more working space between them.

My own modular has been modeled after the 2600 in that I am normalizing it to produce my most used configurations without a single patchcord, but those connections are instantly overridden by the insertion of a patchcord (via switching jacks). It's been a time consuming process, but I'm getting there. If I were to maximize the project I'd either make covering plates that cover up the 1/4" jack areas and drill those plates for 3.5mm jacks .... OR .... the ultimate would be to draw up all new panels via Front Panel Designer that use all 3.5mm jacks, and incorporate some mods I'm doing to some of the dot com modules into the new panels (with new graphics and so on).

The 2600 embodies all of my favorite ~things~ .... great spacing between controls, and 3.5mm patching jacks.

Wow ... if only I had the knowlege to be able to redesign my modest Dot Com system to match the ethos of the TTSH/2600 .... y'know, sliders, the same graphics, 3.5mm jacks throughout. I don't suppose it would be THAT tough, I mean my modular is rather small (intentionally, to keep it small like the 2600 is), and if I redesigned the VCOs that would knock out 5 modules all in one new panel design. And once some of the standards were established there'd be a lot of cut-n-paste for the remaining modules as far as the new panel designs go. And nearly every pot in the Dot Com modules are either 10k or 100k, so retrofitting sliders wouldn't really be ~that~ difficult. All of the controls are attached to the PC Boards via connection headers too.

Kinda makes you wanna say .... Hmmmmmm ....

hmmm.....
zthee
fonik wrote:
zthee, i see you are using a plain open frame switching PSU (meanwell?) to power the unit. any issues recognized so far? i am thinking of blinking LEDs polluting the power buss, or ripple noise on the audio...
from the datasheet the regulation and the noise is much worse on these PSUs than on the linear ones.


Yeah, it's a Mean Well. No issues so far, works great! But I use it only for prototyping....
Rex Coil 7
zthee wrote:
fonik wrote:
zthee, i see you are using a plain open frame switching PSU (meanwell?) to power the unit. any issues recognized so far? i am thinking of blinking LEDs polluting the power buss, or ripple noise on the audio...
from the datasheet the regulation and the noise is much worse on these PSUs than on the linear ones.


Yeah, it's a Mean Well. No issues so far, works great! But I use it only for prototyping....
What kind of load capacity do you estimate needing? Have you been able to work out which PSU the rig will use yet? Or is that something on the "yet to do" list?
djs
Zthee- any guesses on what the final pcb+ front panel combo will cost? starting to save my spare cash!
zthee
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
What kind of load capacity do you estimate needing? Have you been able to work out which PSU the rig will use yet? Or is that something on the "yet to do" list?


It's about 300mA per rail. I've chosen a DC-DC converter which I will test on the next prototype.
wsy
zthee wrote:
fonik wrote:
zthee, i see you are using a plain open frame switching PSU (meanwell?) to power the unit. any issues recognized so far? i am thinking of blinking LEDs polluting the power buss, or ripple noise on the audio...
from the datasheet the regulation and the noise is much worse on these PSUs than on the linear ones.


Yeah, it's a Mean Well. No issues so far, works great! But I use it only for prototyping....


For what it's worth, I use a TDK-Lambda switcher in my portable MU 28-case.
Other than it needing a small dummy load resistor to keep it sane (the 5V bus
needs a minimum load of something like 5% of maximum) it is indistinguishable
from a linear except that it only weighs 500 grams or so. And the output
protection on the switching power supplies is usually better than that of a
linear (it's faster to shut down a charge pump than to deal with the 100's
of joules of energy in the linear's smoothing cap. It's an 80 watt supply
so there's plenty of oomphas.

Oh- and it doesn't get warm. No power supply induced tuning drift.

I'd do it again, and when I build a TTSH, I'll probably use another one. Probably
not the Lambda ZWQ (that's a quad output supply but one that makes proper Dotcom
voltages) but another TDK-Lambda.

- Bill
zthee
wsy wrote:
I'd do it again, and when I build a TTSH, I'll probably use another one. Probably not the Lambda ZWQ (that's a quad output supply but one that makes proper Dotcom voltages) but another TDK-Lambda.

- Bill


The DC-DC converter is mounted on board, so it's an easy option. But the choice is of course left to the builder to decide whether to use it or not.
fonik
the TDk Lambda is a little bit more expensive than the meanwell. i did not check the datasheet, but i guess it's specs are much better than for the cheapo meanwell.
Low-Gain
fonik wrote:
the TDk Lambda is a little bit more expensive than the meanwell. i did not check the datasheet, but i guess it's specs are much better than for the cheapo meanwell.



I've had great luck w/ the Meanwell's. But i typically buy larger supplies and then linearly regulate (locally) to the voltage i need. Cleans things up quite nice. wink
Rex Coil 7
Low-Gain wrote:
fonik wrote:
the TDk Lambda is a little bit more expensive than the meanwell. i did not check the datasheet, but i guess it's specs are much better than for the cheapo meanwell.



I've had great luck w/ the Meanwell's. But i typically buy larger supplies and then linearly regulate (locally) to the voltage i need. Cleans things up quite nice. wink
For the simpler mids amongst us (like me) can you power supply guys simplify your dialog just a smidge?

So I'm gonna take a shot at this post here ^^. You usually use a power supply that is rated for too much voltage then regulate it down at each module? How do you go about doing that?

I have a lot of experience with building PCBs and designing stupid simple opamp based overdrives, compressors and such, but I'm weak when it comes to how to do something such as design a VR. And if the TTSH is going to leave us up to our own devices on such things it would be helpful to know how to do some of this stuff.

I'll be able to build the boards, and I'll do some of the neatest wiring among the tribe, but I'll need some coaching when it comes to designing clean, noise-free power supplies.

Thank you.
Rex Coil 7
What do you think the chances are of having a TTSH subforum? Or will the builds and tech threads pertaining to the TTSH just end up among the flotsam in the DIY forum? A point of interest here, this thread is nearing 50k views.

I can already see...

** Component sources sticky.

** Cab builders sticky.

** Builders-for-hire sticky. Those of you (us?) that will offer to sell fully populated "drop-in" complete PCB assemblies, as well as completed turn-key TTSH synths.

** Mods. There's going to be the people satisifed with building stone-stockers, most will be that way at first, I'm sure. But you gotta know there's going to be the hot-rodders that will add on extension panels for various mods and options, rear-panel patchbays, additional lower full-width panel extensions, and so on. How about a cab that includes a 3U row of Euro along the entire bottom edge of the TTSH panel?

** If zthee offers the front panel as an FPD file I'm sure there will even be variations on the front panel that will include small but significant easily done modifications, additional switches/jacks, and so on. Or even something as mundane as color variations (perhaps even my own preference -- the orange on black ARP era look, like what the AVATAR had going on).

With the many responses already seen in this thread alone by people willing to provide all of the above, as well as the interest this setup seems to have generated, a subforum like some of the other manufacturers' subforums almost seems to be a necessity.

Then again, I could be wrong ... I've been wrong before.
Christopher Winkels
I like the subforum idea. This idea is on the cusp of outgrowing a single thread.
zthee
For me it would be strange to dedicate an area to something that doesn't yet exist. But as soon as the kits are going out the door it's a good idea.
Luka
Like any manufacturer subforum it is up to zthee to contact muff about setting it up if he were to want it
raisinbag
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
How about a cab that includes a 3U row of Euro along the entire bottom edge of the TTSH panel?



Already working on that. You will see in time nanners
vargus
A subforum would be great. Very exciting project.
emdot_ambient
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
One of my favorite aspects of the 2600 design is that it is like having MU modules with 3.5mm patch jacks. I really love the MU/Dot Com module format, but I don't prefer the use of the 1/4 inch patchcords on everything.

hihi
That's exactly the opposite of me. The 3.5mm jacks are the only thing about ARP products that I dislike. I've had to change the jacks on several of my ARP products multiple times over the years. Whereas my Minimoog and other gear with 1/4" jacks has never suffered a failure.

3.5mm jacks just feel...cheap to me.

On the plus side, the TTSH will be easy to interface with my other ARP gear (AXXEs as controller keyboards, SEQ doing it's thang). But I'll end up building a mini jack to 1/4" conversion panel for connecting it elsewhere. Either that or make a bunch of 3.5mm to 1/4" cables for interfacing.

Shoot...might just build a custom interface panel into whatever frame I put my TTSH(s) in. Might be the best option.
CZ Rider
emdot_ambient wrote:
The 3.5mm jacks are the only thing about ARP products that I dislike.

This is a common error peple seem to make in this metric world. ARP never used 3.5mm jacks and plugs ever. They were all .141" Tini-jax made standard by Switchcraft. Very high quality and expensive today. ARP did have a qualty problem with cracked solder joints on the early 2600 from board flexing using surface mount sockets. But if you mix .141" sockets with 3.5mm plugs, you could have connection problems. Depends on the cable ends. I just stay with the Switchcraft .141" and have no reliability issues at all with the 70's type plugs/sockets.
fonik
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Low-Gain wrote:
fonik wrote:
the TDk Lambda is a little bit more expensive than the meanwell. i did not check the datasheet, but i guess it's specs are much better than for the cheapo meanwell.



I've had great luck w/ the Meanwell's. But i typically buy larger supplies and then linearly regulate (locally) to the voltage i need. Cleans things up quite nice. wink
For the simpler mids amongst us (like me) can you power supply guys simplify your dialog just a smidge?

So I'm gonna take a shot at this post here ^^. You usually use a power supply that is rated for too much voltage then regulate it down at each module? How do you go about doing that?

the main issue with switching supplies is that they typically do not regulate as good as a linear one, especially the cheap ones. the result could be that you can 'hear' your blinking LEDs in the audio... each time a LED gets lit it draws current. the PSU will have to compensate this in order to keep the voltage level constant.
not going to the limits of a switching PSU helps. this is what low-gain does. he additionaly uses a i.e. 15V switching PSU and then uses 12V regulators to regulate the voltage down to 12V.
i don't think that the 2nd level regulators help, since they are slow, and depend on the actual PSU anyways. using precision vltage regulators for sensitive voltages would be better, i guess, however, they would have to be part of the actual sub-circuits.

just my 2 pence
gwaidan
Main way that a wonky supply affects your tuning is if your offset/tune pots are driven directly from the power rails. If you have a subregulator on board the module to give you a reference voltage to drive your tune pots and the oscillator core then the problem's pretty much solved. Oakley does it, the Elby ASM-2 does it, even the much-dissed A-110 does it (actually has 2 subregulators-one for the pots and one for the octave switch). It's probably not a bad design idea with modern open-format oscillators considering the designer has no control over what the end user will power them from...

CZ Rider wrote:
emdot_ambient wrote:
The 3.5mm jacks are the only thing about ARP products that I dislike.

This is a common error peple seem to make in this metric world. ARP never used 3.5mm jacks and plugs ever. They were all .141" Tini-jax made standard by Switchcraft. Very high quality and expensive today. ARP did have a qualty problem with cracked solder joints on the early 2600 from board flexing using surface mount sockets. But if you mix .141" sockets with 3.5mm plugs, you could have connection problems. Depends on the cable ends. I just stay with the Switchcraft .141" and have no reliability issues at all with the 70's type plugs/sockets.


Aries... love (and not all that OT considering Dennis Colin worked on the 2600 as well)
diablojoy
Quote:
That's exactly the opposite of me. The 3.5mm jacks are the only thing about ARP products that I dislike.

yeah i decided long ago to only use 1/4"
so this project gives me a hard choice as i definitely want to build this,
in the past i have avoided some projects when there was little choice but to use 3.5mm or 1/8" jacks but for this i think i will have to make an exception. Would probably just parallel wire from all the jacks to a 1/4" jack strip running above the main panel .
2.54 headers sharing the jack footprints or close by but on the opposite side would be nice , they do fit inside the spacing of kobicons footprint at least , not a hard change but very useful to some of us at least.
Rex Coil 7
CZ Rider wrote:
emdot_ambient wrote:
The 3.5mm jacks are the only thing about ARP products that I dislike.

This is a common error peple seem to make in this metric world. ARP never used 3.5mm jacks and plugs ever. They were all .141" Tini-jax made standard by Switchcraft. Very high quality and expensive today. ARP did have a qualty problem with cracked solder joints on the early 2600 from board flexing using surface mount sockets. But if you mix .141" sockets with 3.5mm plugs, you could have connection problems. Depends on the cable ends. I just stay with the Switchcraft .141" and have no reliability issues at all with the 70's type plugs/sockets.
Well, let me word my feelings another way then.

I like the smaller jacks.

EMDOT_AMBIENT:

You're mistaking crap jacks for good ones. There are crap jacks in 1/4" just as well as 3.5mm. Switchcraft makes 3.5mm jacks that are made EXACTLY .. EXACTLY ... the same way as their uber common #11 and #12A 1/4" units which are very well made and feel great when used.

ANY jacks that have a plastic center barrel are going to feel cheap, whether they are 3.5mm or 1/4". Because they ARE cheap. You just have to know which ones to use when you build stuff.

There is an unforutnate fact in most audio gear these days. That fact is that we as consumers have allowed the use of lower quality components (and then blame "China" for the low quality contruction). Many (most?) Euro module makers use jacks that cost as little as possible, those lower cost jacks are typically outfitted with a plastic center barrel. You see these "plastic jacks" in nearly everything these days, simply becuase WE allow it. The high quality "good feeling" 3.5mm jacks are just like high quality "good feeling" 1/4" jacks. If you look at the jacks that companies like Livewire use (look at the Dual Bissell) they do not have plastic barrels, but instead have all metal construction and are every bit as robust as the Switchcraft #11 or #12A 1/4" jacks.

So it is not that 3.5mm jacks are cheaply made as a generalization, it's just that makers of modules that use 3.5mm jacks tend to use the cheaper 3.5mm jacks. If those same companies made MU/5U modules they'd be using the crappy 1/4" jacks in those modules as well.

Look at nearly any stompboxes these days. Crappy 1/4" jacks with plastic barrels. Everywhere. Many companies (stompbox and synth module) use jacks that don't even have nuts that secure the jack to the panel! They rely on the solder joint that holds the jack to the circuit board for 100% of the jacks' support. That's the worst type of design engineering in my opinion.

So it isn't that 3.5mm jacks are all cheap, it's that many (most?) users of 3.5mm jacks prefer to use the cheapest ones they can get their hands on.

Blame the module designers for selecting the lowest cost options when designing their modules.

Here's some examples of higher quality 3.5mm jacks. You want to look for 2 things .... 1.) metal barrel, and 2.) threaded barrel with a nut that secures the jack to the front panel so that the jack's total means of support is NOT the solder joints that secure them to the pcb.

The Livewire Dual Bissell, it has very high quality all metal 3.5mm jacks, as well as "flying lead" construction (which isolates any stresses applied to the jack itself from the PCB). To me this type of construction is the top of the pile.







This is the Livewire Audio Frequency Generator. Note the use of metal barreled 3.5mm jacks that use a small coil spring to retain the plug. Even though the body of the jack is plastic, the barrel is metal, the retention device is well designed, and the jack is secured to the panel via a panel nut. Well made components.





Here's the Flight of Harmony Choices joystick. Again, plastic body (totally ok) but the barrel is metal and the jack is secured to the panel via a nut.





And of course, the TTSH seems to use good quality 3.5mm jacks. Plastic body (fine to use) however all metal barrels AND barrel nuts to secure the jacks to the control panel to relieve any stress that may be transferred to the jacks' solder joints. (Let's also keep in mind that the jacks used on the TTSH are a builder's choice. I'm sure there is more than one type of jack that will fit the application, so whatever "you" as the builder decide to use is what will end up going in it).



Now, let's look at some ... uh ... ~other~ jacks used in some gear that is supposed to be top of the line.

The modern Moog CP251 .... all plastic 1/4" jacks used throughout. Plastic body, plastic barrel, plastic NUT! This is not what I consider to be high quality componentry.



(compared to a 1976 Moog Micromoog .... much higher quality stuff .... )



And lastly, almighty Doepfer. This is an A-192-2 Midi-CV interface module. To me these types of jacks are not very good. They feel ~cheap~ and do not offer a secure feeling when inserting a patchcord. Plastic body, plastic barrel ......







Notice the black plastic center of the jack, that is the plastic center barrel I've been talking about. These are "cheap feeling" when used, and unfortunately many other makers of synth modules that use 3.5mm jacks have also decided to provide this level of quality to us. Why? Because we continue to buy it.



So, it isn't that ALL 3.5mm jacks are "cheap", it is that many manufacturers have elected to use (shall we say) "cost effective choices" when selecting componentry. And this plague is not limited to makers of devices that use 3.5mm jacks either. Almighty Moog has been using the least expensive jacks available for about a decade. And unfortunately, many many other makers of gear that is suppsed to be "top of the line" have elected to walk the same path. I have used A LOT of 1/4" gear that have crappy jacks. And on many occassions the jacks have completely failed and/or broken. Sadly even Fender has been using those crappy 1/4" jacks for quite some time now and the majority of their amplifiers.

So "70's jacks" weren't better .... we still have that exact same jack that was used in the 70s available to us today. The Switchcraft #11 (mono TS 1/4" open frame jack) is a mainstay and hopefully will be around for a very long time to come. Unfortunately it costs about $0.50 more than the plastic crap-jacks. Crap is avalable in 1/4" and 3.5mm. Just pick your flavor of crap.

The ones that get me the most are the ones that do not even bother to design their devices so that the jacks are even mounted to the control panel at all. The design relies 100% on the jack's solder joints that connect them electrically to the PCB to secure the jack mechanically. Stresses from repeated use and longer, heavier patchcords will eventually take their toll on those solder joints, and may even crack the PCB itself. This failure point is very well known amongst several makers of audio processing gear of other types (other than synths). Line 6 was even guilty of this practice on certain units (they were even mounting FOOTSWITCHES that way on some things). But repeated warranty claims for falied solder joints and cracked/broken PCBs got them to see the light. Sorta. If you look at some of the most popular synth gear out there, a lot of it has the "no nut jack" .... easily spotted because there's ...well ... no nut on the jack!

Sermon over.
emdot_ambient
Geez. Don't get your shorts all up in a knot.

I don't like small jacks. And every ARP product I've owned has had them fail, and have yet to have a 1/4" jack fail.

That's all I'm saying. Mr. Green
bruce.cichowlas
Funny what one remembers. We had this box of cables in engineering that came from somewhere and didn't work as well as the regular cables. I didn't think much about it at the time, but now I'm thinking that it had something to do with this jack discussion.
wsy
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
Funny what one remembers. We had this box of cables in engineering that came from somewhere and didn't work as well as the regular cables. I didn't think much about it at the time, but now I'm thinking that it had something to do with this jack discussion.


Yeah, we had an AV patch panel in the analog edit suite (now long gone) that
intentionally used 1/4" for audio, and those funny telco jacks for video. It
actually worked well in that idjits couldn't accidentally route audio into video
or vice versa. I don't think the jacks were "bantam" - but they weren't
1/4" but looked it (spherical tip and all that...)

- Bill
Rod Serling Fan Club
zthee, if after this project you feel you haven't added enough joy to the world, a similar project based on the EML-101 would be SlayerBadger!
qfactor
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
...similar project based on the EML-101 would be SlayerBadger!

Don't forget, it's gotta be 86% to scale hyper too!!
Rex Coil 7
emdot_ambient wrote:
Geez. Don't get your shorts all up in a knot.

I don't like small jacks. And every ARP product I've owned has had them fail, and have yet to have a 1/4" jack fail.

That's all I'm saying. Mr. Green
Nobody's got their shorts up in a knot. Don't take it personally.

I was simply sharing what I've learned. There are a LOT of myths and anti-information out there, such as "3.5mm jacks are cheap". All I did was share what I've learned about component quality.

So, "don't get your shorts all up in a knot". wink The comments and information were not directed at you. I was attempting to inform others about how to identify good parts from bad parts.

And consider yourself lucky that you "have yet to have a 1/4" jack fail" ... I've had MANY of them fail. On Fender gear, Moog gear, a number of Line 6 pieces of kit, countless guitars and basses, even on Marshall amplifiers. Not to mention untold numbers of guitar pedals. So it has zip to do with the size of the jack, it has everything to do with the quality of the jack used.

Just don't want people getting the wrong impression. There were some comments about trepidation regarding the TTSH due to it's use of 3.5mm jacks, with the underlying implication of 3.5mm jacks being "cheap".

The TTSH is not an ARP, it does not use ARP jacks, it uses 3.5mm jacks (someone drew a distinction between the two earlier). And the 3.5mm jacks the TTSH seems to use appear to be better than the "cheap" type found on (far too many) Euro modules (see the differences pointed out in my post above).

That's all I'm saying Mr. Green
Rex Coil 7
Thing to keep in mind:

The TTSH is a DIY project. If zthee does offer the front panel in an FPD file, you can modify that so it has an extension of sorts on the bottom (or ??) and wire up 1/4" jacks instead of 3.5mm jacks.

Instead of installing 3.5mm jacks wire flying leads to the jack's pads, run the flying leads to 1/4" jacks that mount on the extended front panel. Another method of securing the PCB to the panel would have to be worked out, but hey ... it's a DIY project, so .....

It wouldn't necessarily be ~easy~ but it would be doable, nontheless.

Just a thought.
diablojoy
I have nothing against 3.5mm jacks , I just want to keep to the standard i use.
my intent was to still use the standard panel and have the 3.5mm jacks in place just not use them for patching, as you say run flying leads to 1/4" jacks but on a seperate panel.
As i mentioned it would be nice if 2.54 headers were allowed for on the back of the board as it would make wiring said jacks far easier, its not by any means a deal breaker just better for those of us that prefer 1/4"
Peake
Buchla gear used and uses Switchcraft model 41 ("tinyjax") 3.5mm jacks...in regards to the quality question, not the preference issue. Not cheap, however. Someone would have to start a group-buy.
NV
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
ANY jacks that have a plastic center barrel are going to feel cheap, whether they are 3.5mm or 1/4". Because they ARE cheap....


...those lower cost jacks are typically outfitted with a plastic center barrel. You see these "plastic jacks" in nearly everything these days, simply becuase WE allow it....

.....Here's some examples of higher quality 3.5mm jacks. You want to look for 2 things .... 1.) metal barrel.....

.....Notice the black plastic center of the jack, that is the plastic center barrel I've been talking about. These are "cheap feeling" when used, and unfortunately many other makers of synth modules that use 3.5mm jacks have also decided to provide this level of quality to us. Why? Because we continue to buy it......


Without derailing things much further, there are some misconceptions here. Jacks with a plastic inside barrel are commonly used to insulate the ground - a necessary practice in some applications. This also helps to minimize signal contact with ground when inserting a patch cord, a necessary evil in TS/TRS plug applications and which sometimes manifests as noise when touching the tip of a plug to the metal sleeve of a jack in some modules or a series of audible pops when sliding the plug in. Plastic barrels are used by Neutrik, Switchcraft, Kobiconn, and all of the other "heavy hitters" of the jack world and are often employed in some of the most highly regarded audio designs out there - SSL, API, Neve, Manley, and Chandler to name just a few.

The difference between a quality and a "cheap" jack has to do with the contact design, contact materials, and switching mechanism if applicable. What material the barrel itself is made out of has very little to do with the reliability and construction of the jack, particularly since it only governs the method of contact to ground and not the method of securing the plug which has more to do with barrel sizing and the tip/ring contacts within. There are many products which are far cheaper in their aluminum varieties than their plastic options - you can browse through any jack manufacturer's catalogue for proof of that, including Switchcraft.
patchdub
i can't remember if this has already been covered.

i'm sure i'm not the only one who wants to build an arp 2600 like keyboard. i have a sythesizers.com midi/cv module i'm thinking of taking apart along with a little keyboard and making a new case for it all to resemble the arp keyboard.

perhaps there is a better way to go about building such a thing. what are you all planning?
zthee
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
zthee, if after this project you feel you haven't added enough joy to the world, a similar project based on the EML-101 would be SlayerBadger!


I'll put on the list together with RSF Kobol, CS-80 and the rest of the ARP catalog.... w00t
Dego
Excellent Play Him Off, Keyboard Cat.
Rod Serling Fan Club
CS-80? You must be a masochist
gddfp
Zthee, I know you're adhering to the original design as close as possible (and I do support that idea), but did you have any thoughts on the mandatory 10V ARP [env] internal trigger level ?
It seems that, nowadays, a trigger level of 5V or less is much more common, which -- if implemented -- would make this clone more and directly compatible with, and accessible to other, external equipment.

A comparator at the trigger inputs -- tripped at e.g. 1V-or-so - would be ideal, but I have no idea if this is A) feasible, and B) something you'd want to consider...

cheers,
_g
zthee
You could possibly change R1-R4 on the ADSR input to make it accept 5V gate levels. So no comparator should be needed. But someone need to do some experiments on this.

Short description - Q7 blocks the flip-flop set up by Q6 and Q8. The gate signal that goes through Q1 / Q2 releases Q7's block on the flip flop, enabling the trigger pulse that comes through R20/C4 to turn everything on and charge C1/C2 through the attack pot. I don't think Q8 needs exactly 10V to go off, so the level should only be important over at Q1 and Q2. Thus modifying R1 - R4 should make it possible to trigger the whole thing by just 5V instead.
gddfp
As you say, some experimentation might be needed here.
It's not clear to me whether the Attack pot needs the 10V gate level to rise to its max, or if it will rise to 10V regardless of the gate level.
If it's the former, we better shouldn't mess with the internal gate levels, I think, and use external converters (or the internal Voltage Proc.) for gate processing.

zthee wrote:
You could possibly change R1-R4 on the ADSR input to make it accept 5V gate levels. So no comparator should be needed. But someone need to do some experiments on this.

Short description - Q7 blocks the flip-flop set up by Q6 and Q8. The gate signal that goes through Q1 / Q2 releases Q7's block on the flip flop, enabling the trigger pulse that comes through R20/C4 to turn everything on and charge C1/C2 through the attack pot. I don't think Q8 needs exactly 10V to go off, so the level should only be important over at Q1 and Q2. Thus modifying R1 - R4 should make it possible to trigger the whole thing by just 5V instead.
zthee
It will rise to 10V (Set by Q5 and R11 / R13) regardless of the gate level.
mono-poly
RSF Kobol really???
mOBiTh
eml-101 hihi
fonik
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
ANY jacks that have a plastic center barrel are going to feel cheap, whether they are 3.5mm or 1/4". Because they ARE cheap. You just have to know which ones to use when you build stuff.

the 'feeling' is just a personal thing, i would think. however, in general i agree that some jacks feel 'cheap' and others not.

anyways, i don't believe that you could talk this down to the material of the barrel.
and the price is a completley different thing IMHO.

the plastic barrel jacks doepfer used for his older modules (right angle) are anything but cheap. they are in fact expensive cliff sockets. i used them quiete a lot for DIY and i never got one failing. the 'feeling' is very nice in my point of view.
i know about the new vertical mount doepfer uses, and they are top notch quality for a reasonable price (maybe i will change to them in future).

the metal barrel jacks that we see on the flight of harmony module are from the same manufacturer as the sockets zthee uses. just a different model. anyways, i use the same as zthee for my production modules, and believe me, they are much cheaper than the cliff ones. of course they are, they come from china, and not the UK.

even though i like the 'feeling' of the cliff sockets much more i had to use the cheaper chinese with metal barrel, since they are vertical mount snap in with exactly the height i needed. when i say cheap, i mean cheaper in price!

and plastic barrel sockets have one advantage over metal barrel: the shaft signal is isolated from the front panel, which could be very nice in some applications (i once built myself a cable tester module which would not only test the tip, but the shaft signal, too. i had to manually isolate the socket from the panel).
take a look at the 'why should i ground my jacks' thread. some interesting discussion about balanced signals, and the difference between GND/earth and COM/0V. sockets with plastic barrels may be of some help here (in the modular world).

[edit] and what NV said...
Mongo1
Quote:
i'm sure i'm not the only one who wants to build an arp 2600 like keyboard. i have a sythesizers.com midi/cv module i'm thinking of taking apart along with a little keyboard and making a new case for it all to resemble the arp keyboard.

perhaps there is a better way to go about building such a thing. what are you all planning?


For my part, I had planned to put a Midi to CV module in the same case as the TTSH, and use a standard midi kybd. That will also allow me to use my Electribe or PC to drive midi into the synth.

Gary
Christopher Winkels
Mongo1 wrote:
Quote:
i'm sure i'm not the only one who wants to build an arp 2600 like keyboard. i have a sythesizers.com midi/cv module i'm thinking of taking apart along with a little keyboard and making a new case for it all to resemble the arp keyboard.

perhaps there is a better way to go about building such a thing. what are you all planning?


For my part, I had planned to put a Midi to CV module in the same case as the TTSH, and use a standard midi kybd. That will also allow me to use my Electribe or PC to drive midi into the synth.

Gary


I rather like that the TTSH is agnostic in what it could be controlled with. In my case it would be a MIDI keyboard (probably my DX7) and a Kenton Pro-Solo II, as I believe that can provide for both +5V and +15V gates. The latter one should suit the TTSH perfectly.
plord
gddfp wrote:
It seems that, nowadays, a trigger level of 5V or less is much more common, which -- if implemented -- would make this clone more and directly compatible with, and accessible to other, external equipment.


Just as a counter example, every module I have here, Wiard, Blacet, Metalbox, Malekko, both Euro and Frac, plus my DIY stuff, takes and outputs 10V triggers.

So one vote for the status quo. thumbs up
negativspace
Changing it to accept 5v triggers won't make your 10v stuff not work... I fail to see any good reason not to make it work with the gear actual people actually use.
fonik
trigger input threshold as low as possible, output trigger level as high as possible. then everything should actually work nicely together.

just my 2 pence.
zthee
Christopher Winkels wrote:
...and a Kenton Pro-Solo II, as I believe that can provide for both +5V and +15V gates. The latter one should suit the TTSH perfectly.


It does. I have one too and used it to control the first prototype with it, works perfectly.
Mongo1
Quote:
I rather like that the TTSH is agnostic in what it could be controlled with. In my case it would be a MIDI keyboard (probably my DX7) and a Kenton Pro-Solo II, as I believe that can provide for both +5V and +15V gates. The latter one should suit the TTSH perfectly.


I agree - my point was that it sounded like the original poster was going to build the midi interface into the keyboard assembly. I think that will limit flexibility, since it means dragging the keyboard into the picture any time you want to use midi.

The alternative approach I'm suggesting is to build a 'helper box', probably mounted in the same case as the TTSH. My plan is to throw the midi interface, a Barton quantizer, some 1/4 to 1/8th to banana adapters, and possible a sequencer of some sort in that box.

Gary
Christopher Winkels
It should be a fairly trivial thing to achieve other ways of generating 10V triggers.

Off the top of my head (being an MU guy):

- Q125 offset feature. Add a constant +5V to combine with a +5V trigger for +10V

- Q125 gain feature set to 200% (this should work in theory)

- Q118 used to add gain to a +5V signal

I believe STG's signal amplifiers can be used to generate voltages greater than input as well.
zthee
Or you could just use the preamp in the TTSH to gain the gate signal up to 10V. (If you're not using it for other stuff...).
SunSpots
Make the gate threshold accept 5v or less please

I may want to send ten or more gates to various parameters... So amplifying them all is a non option. 5v is a very common standard
zthee
SunSpots wrote:
I may want to send ten or more gates to various parameters... So amplifying them all is a non option. 5v is a very common standard


The only thing needing 10V is the ADSR.
zthee
If the circuit doesn't suit your needs you are free to modify it. This is after all DIY.
emdot_ambient
All this talk of keyboards controlling the TTSH...

Am I the only one dreaming of strapping a big honking model 3620 keyboard controller on over a vintage 1970s fringed vest and leaping around on stage playing Edgar Winters's Frankenstein?

hihi

(There should be an emote for that!)
DrOctave
can this be made into banana jacks instead of mini or 3.5?
DrOctave
mOBiTh wrote:
eml-101 hihi


i love my eml101
Yoa01
Ok, guys, again, this is a DIY project. It's probably just as possible to turn this thing into a walking, self-patching robot as it is to change the jacks. Got a drill and the jacks you want? Good to go. LOL isn't that the fun and general nature of DIY?
guillaume10
I am agree with zthee, it is a diy project...
The most important is to have a good diy kit
And after we can make the mods we want!!!
Monobass
emdot_ambient wrote:
All this talk of keyboards controlling the TTSH...

Am I the only one dreaming of strapping a big honking model 3620 keyboard controller on over a vintage 1970s fringed vest and leaping around on stage playing Edgar Winters's Frankenstein?

hihi

(There should be an emote for that!)


Almost, Edgar Winter is a thing of nightmares not dreams.

Personally I'll be slipping on a pair of sunglasses and playing 'Livin' for the City' 8_)
wsy
Monobass wrote:
emdot_ambient wrote:
All this talk of keyboards controlling the TTSH...

Am I the only one dreaming of strapping a big honking model 3620 keyboard controller on over a vintage 1970s fringed vest and leaping around on stage playing Edgar Winters's Frankenstein?

hihi

(There should be an emote for that!)


Almost, Edgar Winter is a thing of nightmares not dreams.

Personally I'll be slipping on a pair of sunglasses and playing 'Livin' for the City' 8_)


Nope. I'm gonna bleach my hair and put in pink contacts! :-)

But I have to figure out a 86%-sized mini-keyboard first. :

- Bill
beyourdog
Yoa01 wrote:
Ok, guys, again, this is a DIY project. It's probably just as possible to turn this thing into a walking, self-patching robot as it is to change the jacks. Got a drill and the jacks you want? Good to go. LOL isn't that the fun and general nature of DIY?


Yeah, I agree, this is a DIY project, I think we should praise the person able to propose this kind of thing.

Personnally, I really congratulate him to propose something as close to the standard 2600 as possible.

You want the real deal, then you got it. you want to mess around with it, change the jacks, the colors, shave his legs, add a vibro in it connected to the Clock, then it is DIY man...

I mean, come on, somebody gives you the possibility to buy a Kit to build an old Lotus racing car and people are windging about the color of the wheels...
gwaidan
...or people asking if the Lotus kit can be modified so it can use the same wheels as their Prius...

I really admire how zthee has resisted any temptation (or pressure) to "improve" the core synthesiser-there are plenty of options to recreate the functionality of a 2600 with modern modules if gate-level interoperability is more important than authenticity. Or just make the mods yourself?
Rex Coil 7
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
..... That sounds really interesting with the guitar. Any audio? Pics? My own pedal steel was a $200 kit from Market-Rite in Detroit, but of course that was 1976 dollars. Though not at ARP, Dexter Bates, a power supply engineer at Kurzweil, was a pedal steel player .....


Here Bruce. You got me to thinking about this so I figured I'd start a project thread about it.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=86159&highlight=

Once I get it done I'll do a number of SoundCloud tracks that include modular synth use as part of the run.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
beyourdog
gwaidan wrote:
Agree-I really admire how zthee has resisted any temptation (or nagging) to "improve" the core synthesiser-there are plenty of options to recreate the functionality of a 2600 with modern modules if interoperability is more important than authenticity.


That's true and that being said, people who knows this machine knows that it is self efficient by itself and it is a near perfect template.

Just going through the patch books of the 2600 you realise that you just use 20% of the machine on the day to day basis...
Man why not adding another envelop? Well, there is a slew limiter somewhere, can be used as an envelop, man another LFO, well the 3 VCO are normally switchable to LFO mode...the list is endless and this synth in itself is just the perfect Sub-Modular template.
Studying the Patch book of the ARP2600 should be mandatory before asking any improvement on this wonderful synth...
numan7
zthee wrote:
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
zthee, if after this project you feel you haven't added enough joy to the world, a similar project based on the EML-101 would be SlayerBadger!


I'll put on the list together with RSF Kobol, CS-80 and the rest of the ARP catalog.... w00t


hmmm..... ...and after all those are done, maybe this (pretty please!)?

cheers
beyourdog
numan7 wrote:
zthee wrote:
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
zthee, if after this project you feel you haven't added enough joy to the world, a similar project based on the EML-101 would be SlayerBadger!


I'll put on the list together with RSF Kobol, CS-80 and the rest of the ARP catalog.... w00t


hmmm..... ...and after all those are done, maybe this (pretty please!)?

cheers


What it this stuff??? I quite like the blue color though/.... woah
Mongo1
DrOctave wrote:
can this be made into banana jacks instead of mini or 3.5?


That seems like a tall order - I think this beast is designed with switching jacks, allowing you to run a normalized config without patch cords. If you wanted to use banana cables, you'd probably have to add switches beside the jacks - not easy....

If you want to interconnect with banana gear, you'll probably be better off making a banana to 1/8 jack panel.

Gary
bruce.cichowlas
Mongo1 wrote:
DrOctave wrote:
can this be made into banana jacks instead of mini or 3.5?


That seems like a tall order - I think this beast is designed with switching jacks, allowing you to run a normalized config without patch cords. If you wanted to use banana cables, you'd probably have to add switches beside the jacks - not easy....

If you want to interconnect with banana gear, you'll probably be better off making a banana to 1/8 jack panel.

Gary


Using switching jacks to implement default patches was one of the innovations on the 2600, making it quick to set up and use. It was the first or one of the first commercial synthesizers to do this, I think.
Autophase
this is just absolutely beautiful, I have registered my interest and will definately buy.
Before getting my modular I had my eye on an original 2600 but decided a modular would be more flexible, more stable and wouldnt cost me an arm and a leg in maintenance.
The beauty of your TTSH is that i can use it along side my modular.

I cant wait to build this.
zthee
For me, what makes this project unique is the goal to reproduce the functions and look of the original unit. Changing any of the parameters to something else - I.e sliders to knobs, switching jacks to bananas, module selection and so on - kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing. It's the sum of all the parts that makes into a great synth.

The circuitry has been cloned elsewhere and if you look around you can get both the filters, oscillators, VCA and envelopes from other places. I would suggest that is the way to go if you're interested in the circuitry / sound but not the original functions / layout.
Mongo1
zthee wrote:
For me, what makes this project unique is the goal to reproduce the functions and look of the original unit. Changing any of the parameters to something else - I.e sliders to knobs, switching jacks to bananas, module selection and so on - kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing. It's the sum of all the parts that makes into a great synth.

The circuitry has been cloned elsewhere and if you look around you can get both the filters, oscillators, VCA and envelopes from other places. I would suggest that is the way to go if you're interested in the circuitry / sound but not the original functions / layout.


Exactly! This is a hell of synth as it sits, and I can't wait to get my quivering hands on one.

In the words of Star Trek's T'Pau "The air is the air - what can be done?"

What indeed...

Gary
wsy
Mongo1 wrote:
zthee wrote:
For me, what makes this project unique is the goal to reproduce the functions and look of the original unit. Changing any of the parameters to something else - I.e sliders to knobs, switching jacks to bananas, module selection and so on - kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing. It's the sum of all the parts that makes into a great synth.

The circuitry has been cloned elsewhere and if you look around you can get both the filters, oscillators, VCA and envelopes from other places. I would suggest that is the way to go if you're interested in the circuitry / sound but not the original functions / layout.


Exactly! This is a hell of synth as it sits, and I can't wait to get my quivering hands on one.

In the words of Star Trek's T'Pau "The air is the air - what can be done?"

What indeed...

Gary


Exactly so.

Buy two. Build one. Use it for a year. Then decide how you want to change it, and
build the other. Use them both. See which one you like better.

- Bill
Tribrix
zthee, Thank you so much for this. The dream of owning a 2600 has never been closer for many of us.

I have been lurking here for a long time, reading about this project and although I think it's slightly off topic I have a question.

If a company like say, Arturia or Behringer approached you about mass producing your creation, the TTSH, would you be amenable?

I have no relationship with either company, or any other manufacturer, but I could see your project being a very popular product if it wasn't DIY (look at all the Hype over the new MS-20). I would love to own a TTSH, but don't think my soldering skills are up to the task. I would really love to be able to order an assembled unit, with a case from a major manufacturer and the two I named seem the most likely to actually implement such a product. I could see you not wanting to share your baby in this way (they'd probably insist on adding a midi port, at minimum, and want other changes too). So I hope this question doesn't offend you, that was not my intention at all. And thanks again for making so many people's dream a reality.
zthee
Tribrix wrote:
If a company like say, Arturia or Behringer approached you about mass producing your creation, the TTSH, would you be amenable?


If these guys wanted to make an ARP 2600 clone I doubt they would ask me. They're big enough to do it themselves, they got EE's, development teams and what not. Heck, they could probably buy 2 original units and pick them apart just for fun. So if they want to do it, they will do it, I'm probably not even on the radar. And that's fine by me.

I mean there is nothing stopping someone for doing exactly what I have done, and turn it into a finished commercial product produced for the masses. And the only thing I can do is watch and say - Wish I had the money / time to do that.

But if someone actually took the TTSH and rebranded it and sold it. Well, that's another story...
Tribrix
zthee wrote:
If these guys wanted to make an ARP 2600 clone I doubt they would ask me. They're big enough to do it themselves, they got EE's, development teams and what not.


Although I've never worked on a musical instrument, I did develop an iPod product that was mass produced by an existing electronics company. One thing I learned was, in approaching these companies, they really appreciated if all the development and prototyping was already underway (they also offered a lot more money in such a case). The beauty of the TTSH is that you have done the research, development and prototyping, so they could hit the ground running if they were interested. Also, it's my understanding that the Minibrute was developed by a third party who was a synth hobbyist with a DIY background, not so different than the TTSH in that respect. And Arturia already has a relationship with Pearlman . . .

I didn't earn enough from my iPod project to quit my day job, but it was a nice bump in my income that year. I think it's a real possibility for either of these companies to be VERY interested in your project. You've done the hard work of making it functional using current technology, scaled it down for greater economy, and been through a round or two of trouble shooting. All of which is very attractive to companies who might be interested in mass producing it.
gwaidan
I don't think Arturia or (especially) Behringer would be interested in mass producing a through-hole technology synth that relies on a finite supply of obsolete NOS parts....
Low-Gain
I'd do it. If I got ok's from
the right people.
wink

But it wouldn't be mass manufacturing.. more like short runs and waiting lists.
rico loverde
zthee wrote:
For me, what makes this project unique is the goal to reproduce the functions and look of the original unit. Changing any of the parameters to something else - I.e sliders to knobs, switching jacks to bananas, module selection and so on - kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing. It's the sum of all the parts that makes into a great synth.
please stick to this philosophy! what you have accomplished is amazing i just wish everyone would chill out on how they think it should be done.
cleaninglady
rico loverde wrote:
zthee wrote:
For me, what makes this project unique is the goal to reproduce the functions and look of the original unit. Changing any of the parameters to something else - I.e sliders to knobs, switching jacks to bananas, module selection and so on - kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing. It's the sum of all the parts that makes into a great synth.
please stick to this philosophy! what you have accomplished is amazing i just wish everyone would chill out on how they think it should be done.


+1 ! sad banana
dougt
zthee wrote:
For me, what makes this project unique is the goal to reproduce the functions and look of the original unit. Changing any of the parameters to something else - I.e sliders to knobs, switching jacks to bananas, module selection and so on - kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing. It's the sum of all the parts that makes into a great synth.


Zthee, you're doing a very cool thing but given you're statement above then why reduce the size? I find the original just about perfect ergonomically. The TTSH looks kinda cramped with not as much room between the controls...
zthee
dougt wrote:
Zthee, you're doing a very cool thing but given you're statement above then why reduce the size? I find the original just about perfect ergonomically. The TTSH looks kinda cramped with not as much room between the controls...


Using the TTSH I haven't found it to be cramped, there's still plenty of room between the sliders and jacks.
Low-Gain
zthee wrote:
dougt wrote:
Zthee, you're doing a very cool thing but given you're statement above then why reduce the size? I find the original just about perfect ergonomically. The TTSH looks kinda cramped with not as much room between the controls...


Using the TTSH I haven't found it to be cramped, there's still plenty of room between the sliders and jacks.


You want cramped... try eurorack. lol lol
The TTSH looks spacious! hyper hyper
Autophase
i gotta stop torturing my self reading this thread every day, its not gonna make the TTSH kits arrive any sooner.

Is a September release still looking likely for this?

I have 1 question, I know you have kept it as original as possible, but are the osiclators more stable than the original 2600?
Dego
It is the same as the original only with decoupling if you so desire.
nickster
dougt wrote:
zthee wrote:
For me, what makes this project unique is the goal to reproduce the functions and look of the original unit. Changing any of the parameters to something else - I.e sliders to knobs, switching jacks to bananas, module selection and so on - kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing. It's the sum of all the parts that makes into a great synth.


Zthee, you're doing a very cool thing but given you're statement above then why reduce the size? I find the original just about perfect ergonomically. The TTSH looks kinda cramped with not as much room between the controls...


Actually got to see the first prototype and to be honest the new sizing does not reduce the ergonomic brilliance of this synth. Rather it compliments it by concentrating the hands on experience. Hopefully you will also come to see this. 8_)
nihilist
Is this a pay when parts arrive,
or pre-order situation?
Rigo
nihilist wrote:
Is this a pay when parts arrive,
or pre-order situation?

It's still a wait and see situation hihi
If you didn't yet, take a look at http://www.thehumancomparator.net/
There you find all information nicely together, and you can submit your email to be notified when the PCB is considered finished.
adnauseam
DrOctave wrote:
can this be made into banana jacks instead of mini or 3.5?


Could one just use these instead?
Stackables

I know then you'd have to buy a schwack of them to get going.. but it would have the same effect.

-adnauseam
Rex Coil 7
rico loverde wrote:
zthee wrote:
For me, what makes this project unique is the goal to reproduce the functions and look of the original unit. Changing any of the parameters to something else - I.e sliders to knobs, switching jacks to bananas, module selection and so on - kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing. It's the sum of all the parts that makes into a great synth.
please stick to this philosophy! what you have accomplished is amazing i just wish everyone would chill out on how they think it should be done.
+1. Hell, +2. Stick with your course and heading zthee. Word.

Thing is, (as has been said about a truckload of times already) ... if you want yours different, build yours different, it's a DIY project. So all of these opinions about how things ~should~ be done, can be done ... that is, once you get your own kit in front of you on your own workbench.

It's no different than buying a car model kit. Y'know one of those Revell or Monogram glue-it-together car models. If you want something different, then just do it! Don't rely on the manufacturer of the kit to do it for you. Take the reigns and Do It Yourself.

These comments about *I want different jacks -- *I don't like the size -- *I want a better/different EG setup -- *I want a different color ...... or *(insert remark about desired changes here) ... OK! thumbs up Great! thumbs up Do it up! thumbs up I can't wait to see your variation on this theme! thumbs up

I think that maybe some of those comments aren't actually, like, saying that zthee should make the TTSH that way but perhaps just remarks about how they would want to see their own completed TTSH made. Then again (upon some reflection) I guess there are others who think the kit isn't being designed "properly" (whatever that means) and that it "should" be made to the specs they've decided are "correct" (bring to mind a stearn teacher shaking a finger at you). I suppose opinions are a wonderul thing, and the freedom to express such things is an even more wonderful thing.

.... however ....

The end of the sentence is that, it is what it is, as it is, and that's what it is! If changes are desired, then changes may be made ....

.... to your own TTSH kit. thumbs up

But telling zthee that it "should" be made another way is totally pointless, because it isn't happening. He's been very very clear about that from the very beginning. Respect, yo!

I understand that pointing out certain aspects or asking zthee if he noticed a certain possible design problem while it is in this oh-so-critical prototyping stage is a somewhat necessary thing (it never hurts to have another set of eyes looking over something). But critical statements about how certain preferences "should" be implemented into the finished kit as a permanent change in the general design are simply imposing one's own preferences on zthee's philosophies.

Make those changes to your own TTSH, then show off your version to all of us when it's completed. Why would you want "everyones" to be like your own anyway? It wouldn't be unique anymore.

So let's see that totally one-off/custom/DIY chrome plated, laser etched control panel loaded with banana jacks and expanded to the original size with a spalted maple blue-stained cabinet that you made with the TTSH kit!

8_)
10011001
how is this EVER gonna live up to the hype hihi








hyper is it September yet?
bruce.cichowlas
I'm the new guy here. I think all this discussion of alternate jacks and configurations is great to read. If anyone has the right to argue about authenticity though, I suppose I should be arguing for the full size and an authentic case. But I'm not. It seems as if zthee has a coherent, thoughtful, feasible plan, so I think we should all be grateful for that. It sounds to me that it will work well and it's already proving itself in the field. Pretty grand, I think.

On a whole different topic, I did want to mention somewhere that I think that the picture of the two cats on the upper left is one of the best cat pics ever. I really like how they are looking at one another. One could write a lot of captions.
Rigo
bruce.cichowlas wrote:

On a whole different topic, I did want to mention somewhere that I think that the picture of the two cats on the upper left is one of the best cat pics ever. I really like how they are looking at one another. One could write a lot of captions.

"Stay away from my 2600, build your own one, you damn cat"
zthee
10011001 wrote:
how is this EVER gonna live up to the hype hihi


Everything goes as planned and the product is released in September. You buy one and through the next couple of weeks build it. As it stands finished on your desk, you think about life and the meaning of everything, looking at it you... -

- ...see this as the most perfect piece ever, it's everything the hype claims it to be. Go to page 135

- ...realize it's just a synthesizer. Your world shatters and you wonder if there's any meaning in this hell of gear lust. Go to page 87
roglok
zthee wrote:
10011001 wrote:
how is this EVER gonna live up to the hype hihi


Everything goes as planned and the product is released in September. You buy one and through the next couple of weeks build it. As it stands finished on your desk, you think about life and the meaning of everything, looking at it you... -

- ...see this as the most perfect piece ever, it's everything the hype claims it to be. Go to page 135

- ...realize it's just a synthesizer. Your world shatters and you wonder if there's any meaning in this hell of gear lust. Go to page 87


hihi
beyourdog
zthee wrote:
10011001 wrote:
how is this EVER gonna live up to the hype hihi


Everything goes as planned and the product is released in September. You buy one and through the next couple of weeks build it. As it stands finished on your desk, you think about life and the meaning of everything, looking at it you... -

- ...see this as the most perfect piece ever, it's everything the hype claims it to be. Go to page 135

- ...realize it's just a synthesizer. Your world shatters and you wonder if there's any meaning in this hell of gear lust. Go to page 87


If I do get as much trippy inspiration as my late 2600 from this clone, I think Sir, you will deserve a standing ovation...
beyourdog
zthee wrote:
10011001 wrote:
how is this EVER gonna live up to the hype hihi


Everything goes as planned and the product is released in September. You buy one and through the next couple of weeks build it. As it stands finished on your desk, you think about life and the meaning of everything, looking at it you... -

- ...see this as the most perfect piece ever, it's everything the hype claims it to be. Go to page 135

- ...realize it's just a synthesizer. Your world shatters and you wonder if there's any meaning in this hell of gear lust. Go to page 87


If I do get as much trippy inspiration as my late 2600 from this clone, I think Sir, you will deserve a standing ovation...
mrfang
bruce.cichowlas wrote:

On a whole different topic, I did want to mention somewhere that I think that the picture of the two cats on the upper left is one of the best cat pics ever. I really like how they are looking at one another.


I was sad when I realized the grey one's eyes were Photoshopped.

Teh forumcats
BKehew
dougt wrote:
Sounds cool but one of the things that makes the 2600 so much fun to use is the ergonomics. It would feel kinda cramped I think trying to use one that's MS20 sized...


I have to agree. It's not a BIG modular synth, at all. Easily moved... ah well, I guess you've decided. And the good thing is, it won't fool anyone into confusing it for the real deal...
bruce.cichowlas


I have one of these and was a friend of John Simonton's, the guy behind PAIA. ( http://createdigitalmusic.com/2005/11/paia-synth-kit-founder-john-simo nton-has-died/ )

This would have been considered a DIY version of an ARP synthesizer in the 70's.
Rod Serling Fan Club
zthee wrote:


Everything goes as planned and the product is released in September. You buy one and through the next couple of weeks build it. As it stands finished on your desk, you think about life and the meaning of everything, looking at it you... -

- ...see this as the most perfect piece ever, it's everything the hype claims it to be. Go to page 135

- ...realize it's just a synthesizer. Your world shatters and you wonder if there's any meaning in this hell of gear lust. Go to page 87


How did you know?
bruce.cichowlas
2600 for sale!

http://www.sintesvintage.com/auctions/1972-arp-2600-vintage-analog-syn thesizer-3604-p-synth-2600p-v2-0-vco-keyboard
x10civ
Definately put me down for 1 ! - TTSH that is !

Thanks for all your hard work Zthee
Jarno
Good condition, lot of money.
Superb pictures! Really dig the swirly PCB layouts. Also very good pictures to get inspiration for the enclosure.

Thanks!

bruce.cichowlas wrote:
2600 for sale!

http://www.sintesvintage.com/auctions/1972-arp-2600-vintage-analog-syn thesizer-3604-p-synth-2600p-v2-0-vco-keyboard
Shipatsea
I just read through this entire thread in one sitting. I'm in love.
zthee


Prototype panel is in!

Now just waiting for the PCB that will fit it (The old one won't..).
Low-Gain
FUCK YEAH! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t w00t Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw!

That's gunna be one hell of a large box when you ship my order! hihi hihi hihi lol lol
x10civ
I must say it's looking fantastic Zthee.

Do you think there will be another prototype board - or is this the last version ?
HueMonContact
we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy PRAISE (insert your lord of choosing) or (X) if you're not a believer!
zthee
x10civ wrote:
Do you think there will be another prototype board - or is this the last version ?


It depends on how well it all goes. If it works as it should, it's the last one. If it doesn't it's probably not.
xpando
hell yeah panel porn!
numan7
SlayerBadger! screaming goo yo w00t oh mamma, that panel looks so awesome!! we're not worthy:zthee:

cheers
bananeurysm
I love how all these pics seem to imply that your workbench is made out of solid marble.

baller.
mDang
Nice wink
tb303
Beautiful love
AnalogBastard
I check in on this thread every few days... Just to make sure I didn't dream it spinning we're not worthy love applause thumbs up
Rex Coil 7
bananeurysm wrote:
I love how all these pics seem to imply that your workbench is made out of solid marble.

baller.
Y'mean his floor?
moog55
looking great, zthee! SlayerBadger! screaming goo yo
gwaidan
Lovely!
Dego
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
bananeurysm wrote:
I love how all these pics seem to imply that your workbench is made out of solid marble.

baller.
Y'mean his floor?


Kitchen table?

Tulip by Saarinen?
zthee
Dego wrote:
Tulip by Saarinen?




thumbs up
Vic
applause

Yeaaaa we're not worthy we're not worthy

I can't wait to start this one.
Shipatsea
As I understand you will not be providing the component kits right? If so or whoever does put these together I really really hope the resistors are labeled by value for color blind dudes like me hihi
Rigo
Shipatsea wrote:
As I understand you will not be providing the component kits right? If so or whoever does put these together I really really hope the resistors are labeled by value for color blind dudes like me hihi

The cost of a small DMM is nothing compared to the cost of the whole project. And given that even big companies manage to put the wrong resistors an extra check doesn't hurt. It also takes less time than trying to find and fix the problem afterwards hihi
Rex Coil 7
Rigo wrote:
Shipatsea wrote:
As I understand you will not be providing the component kits right? If so or whoever does put these together I really really hope the resistors are labeled by value for color blind dudes like me hihi

The cost of a small DMM is nothing compared to the cost of the whole project. And given that even big companies manage to put the wrong resistors an extra check doesn't hurt. It also takes less time than trying to find and fix the problem afterwards hihi
I've been building electronic crap for years. I've never once used the color codes, I always .. without fail ... always .. use a meter to double check the component values of every part I use. Caps, resistors, diodes, BJTs, FETS, whatever. Pretesting CAPS is an absolute must-do.

A DMM can cost as little as $10 bucks, and I've found a ~decent~ cap tester on eBay that sells for $16 shipped. I have three of those cap testers and have calibrated them against a Fluke and they're "close enough" to be called useable testers. So I test each resistor, and each cap (and I even record their observed values on a printed out parts list) on every gadget that I build. It adds very very little time to the overall construction time, and can be a priceless helper in certain situations.

I use a piece of foam that has had cells drawn on it (Sharpie) and each cell is numbered. I then pull the parts needed per the parts lists. I place the parts at one corner of each cell, which designates "unverified". After the entire list is pulled from inventory and stuck into their properly numbered cells on the foam board, I then sit down with a meter and confirm each part. The parts that have been measured and had their values recorded on the "working parts list" are then stuck in the opposite corner of their cells on the foam piece. That way if I don't finish verifying the parts on the foam board I know exactly where I left off because untested parts are in their "unconfirmed" corners of their respective numbered cells.

The numbers on the cells coincide with their placement on the PCB. Resistor "R1" goes into cell #1, R2 into cell #2 and so on. On large projects, caps get their own foam boards. But all of my foam boards are simply numbered with 1, 2 ,3, etc. There's no "R1, C1, ..." and so on. Just simple numbers-only works fine.

So once everything is pulled, verified, and recorded, I can sit down at the soldering bench with one foam board, and I know that cell #1 goes into position R1 on the PCB, and so on. It really makes for a nice method. And since everthing is numbered to coincide with a PCB, I can prevent mistakes. If I need to make sure I am putting the proper resistor in the proper place, I look down at the foam board and see that the last resistor I soldered in was (let's say) R24. There had better be 24 resistors on that PCB, and the next open position on the PCB had better be R25! It's a great way to prevent errors.

But back on the issue, I never use the color codes .. ever. It's too easy to verify it with a meter, then there is absolutely no question about it at all.

smile
zthee


All values are printed on board. So no need to keep cross-checking of R1 was 100k or 100r.
craigwilliamsmusic
I am frothing over this project hahahahaha
Rex Coil 7
zthee wrote:


All values are printed on board. So no need to keep cross-checking of R1 was 100k or 100r.
Everyone has their own ways of doing things I suppose. "Whatever works" .. right?

I mean, even PCB marking can be wrong .... I think I remember seeing something YOU even wrote about the parts list not matching the PCB markings on the original 2600 board (or something of that nature). I've used MANY boards that were incorrectly marked, or didn't reflect a change in the parts listing or an upgrade.

I've just learned to double check everything, it prevents some time consuming hassles down the line. I suppose it's "just me" but I prefer to crosscheck against the most current parts listing.
zthee
The good part about having reference designators is that you can change R1 after the boards are made. It's just that I find that sort of documentation slows down the building process quite a bit.

Parts list in the original is a mess. But I'm not aiming for keeping it that close to the original...

There will be some sort of reference map with the designators though - So you can see where R1 is. If you'd like to modify the circuit in some way.
Rex Coil 7
zthee wrote:
The good part about having reference designators is that you can change R1 after the boards are made. It's just that I find that sort of documentation slows down the building process quite a bit.

Parts list in the original is a mess. But I'm not aiming for keeping it that close to the original...

There will be some sort of reference map with the designators though - So you can see where R1 is. If you'd like to modify the circuit in some way.
Sounds great. I just learned to use that method years ago and it sortof stuck with me. So it's great to hear that the reference map will be offered! smile
bruce.cichowlas
I suspect most of you have seen the great info and pics here http://www.vintagesynth.com/arp/arp.php, but I didn't know the bit about R2-D2!
Luka
zthee wrote:
The good part about having reference designators is that you can change R1 after the boards are made. It's just that I find that sort of documentation slows down the building process quite a bit.

Parts list in the original is a mess. But I'm not aiming for keeping it that close to the original...

There will be some sort of reference map with the designators though - So you can see where R1 is. If you'd like to modify the circuit in some way.


I am all for refernece designators and not value these days especially for large projects. Trying to apply fixes to the living vocoder was a p.i.t.a. since you couldnt determine which 100k was meant to be 10k. So much easier if you have R1234 on the board.
mckenic
zthee - will you marry me?
gwaidan
Luka wrote:
zthee wrote:
The good part about having reference designators is that you can change R1 after the boards are made. It's just that I find that sort of documentation slows down the building process quite a bit.

Parts list in the original is a mess. But I'm not aiming for keeping it that close to the original...

There will be some sort of reference map with the designators though - So you can see where R1 is. If you'd like to modify the circuit in some way.


I am all for refernece designators and not value these days especially for large projects. Trying to apply fixes to the living vocoder was a p.i.t.a. since you couldnt determine which 100k was meant to be 10k. So much easier if you have R1234 on the board.


Problem is reference designators don't prevent errors at the BOM end, and second Zthee's point about them slowing down assembly. With the living vocoder you are talking about a project that was in limited beta, so would have had more parts corrections than the average build...
Rex Coil 7
Luka wrote:
zthee wrote:
The good part about having reference designators is that you can change R1 after the boards are made. It's just that I find that sort of documentation slows down the building process quite a bit.

Parts list in the original is a mess. But I'm not aiming for keeping it that close to the original...

There will be some sort of reference map with the designators though - So you can see where R1 is. If you'd like to modify the circuit in some way.


I am all for refernece designators and not value these days especially for large projects. Trying to apply fixes to the living vocoder was a p.i.t.a. since you couldnt determine which 100k was meant to be 10k. So much easier if you have R1234 on the board.
Major +1. I very much prefer designators over values combined with current and updated parts lists. Every circuit that I create on my own is done that way. That method is well suited for keeping track of variations on the circuits as well. Parts list 1 is for stock configuration, Parts list 2 is for the modded hantoon rantoon, Parts list 3 is for the Hantoon without the Rantoon, and so on.

The method also allows me to use the same foam boards for any project, as they are simply numbered with 1,2,3,4, and so on for each part's cell. R1 goes into cell 1, C1 goes into cell 21, and so forth. Or whatever works for whatever project.

But whatever zthee does on the TTSH is fine, I'll adapt.
Rod Serling Fan Club
I prefer values but will caveat that it is important with printed values that any misprint is clearly mentioned in the build docs.
Rex Coil 7
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
I suspect most of you have seen the great info and pics here http://www.vintagesynth.com/arp/arp.php, but I didn't know the bit about R2-D2!
Yup, that was a pretty famous use of the 2600. I think I first read of it in Contemporary Keyboard just prior to Star Wars' release in 1977. It was sortof distracting at times, as I tried to fall into the movie I kept thinking "that's a 2600!" when R2D2 would spew out a string of burbles and blips. I kept amazing at the emotive use of the sounds as well, how even though the sounds were just blips and bleeps the viewer knew exactly what the little droid was conveying.
Rex Coil 7
Rod Serling Fan Club wrote:
I prefer values but will caveat that it is important with printed values that any misprint is clearly mentioned in the build docs.
Potato, potahto. Whatever works, right?
zthee
Luka wrote:
I am all for refernece designators and not value these days especially for large projects. Trying to apply fixes to the living vocoder was a p.i.t.a. since you couldnt determine which 100k was meant to be 10k. So much easier if you have R1234 on the board.


But if he had done what he used to do - E.g. have one file like this (Which is what the board looked like), and then share a PDF like this. Everything would've been fine. Unfortunately he wouldn't give out the reference designators PDF on the vocoder, I can understand why - But it didn't help when assembling the damn thing.

As the example with the FS1a in the links above - For me it's the best of both worlds. You get the values on board for fast building. But you have access to a reference if something goes wrong or you'd like to change something.
Rex Coil 7
zthee wrote:
Luka wrote:
I am all for refernece designators and not value these days especially for large projects. Trying to apply fixes to the living vocoder was a p.i.t.a. since you couldnt determine which 100k was meant to be 10k. So much easier if you have R1234 on the board.


But if he had done what he used to do - E.g. have one file like this (Which is what the board looked like), and then share a PDF like this. Everything would've been fine. Unfortunately he wouldn't give out the reference designators PDF on the vocoder, I can understand why - But it didn't help when assembling the damn thing.

As the example with the FS1a in the links above - For me it's the best of both worlds. You get the values on board for fast building. But you have access to a reference if something goes wrong or you'd like to change something.
EXACTLY! I mean, having the values on the PCB is fine, but how do you tell someone to change "Q3" or communicate some idea or thought about "R45" when there is no reference in any documentation to the parts?

I agree that both types are useful, but if I had to only have ONE type it would definitely be the designators on the drawings, and a parts list (commonly called a "BOM") to go with it. Then upgrades or mods can be easily published, as well as troubleshooting or repairs can be more easily done. For instance....

(email to zthee) "Hi. My TTSH is (broken, not working right, won't properly track the keyboard ... what-EVER), any idea what to do?"

(zthee's answer if a designator system is used) "Check the polarity of diode D6, be sure it is installed properly, and check the voltage at IC3 on the power terminal, it should be x-mV".

No need to use a schematic for that conversation, good thing since a lot of potential customers may not know beans about reading a schematic. Mods created by other users can be easily communicated as well. ("Install a flying lead at the Q2 side of R5, and run that lead out to the new pot we're installing to provide control with this modification... ") .. or whatever.

I guess I am just so used to that world that anything else seems less-than. For over fifteen years I owned and operated a business where I did factory authorized warranty repairs for roughly 4 dozen manufacturers of industrial equipment such as Black and Decker, Milwaukee, Miller Electric Welding equipment, Onan generators, and so on. EVERY one of those companies use the designator method. So I got very used ot seeing it.

Perhaps I am spoiled with a system that may be thought of by higher-skilled builders as sortof "beginner methods".

seriously, i just don't get it
zthee
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
EXACTLY! I mean, having the values on the PCB is fine, but how do you tell someone to change "Q3" or communicate some idea or thought about "R45" when there is no reference in any documentation to the parts?


What? Why would there be no reference in the documentation?

The build documentation will be complete and you'll get everything you need to do whatever you want with the board.

I can't see why you all are getting worked up on such a small detail. It stays as it is because that's the way I like it.
Luka
Fair point and you are right all the other Haible products did have the res. des. pdfs.

Luckily sound was nice enough to make diagrams of all the modifications for the vocoder
Rex Coil 7
zthee wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
EXACTLY! I mean, having the values on the PCB is fine, but how do you tell someone to change "Q3" or communicate some idea or thought about "R45" when there is no reference in any documentation to the parts?


What? Why would there be no reference in the documentation?

The build documentation will be complete and you'll get everything you need to do whatever you want with the board.

I can't see why you all are getting worked up on such a small detail. It stays as it is because that's the way I like it.
I'm not "getting worked up" ... it's just some conversation about something. I've never EVER suggested that you change anything at all. I've always said that you should continue doing things the way you wish. I also said very clearly that I'll easily adapt to whatever you decide to do. I've done nothing but support your decisions from the start (look at every posting I've ever written about your efforts).

It seems I'm getting on people's nerves. Sorry ... I'll stop. This was just some conversation about ~stuff~. I never once suggested that you change a thing.

I'll just wait for the kits to come out. Time to go back to lurking. Thanks .. smile
zthee
No worries. Sorry for being grumpy This is fun!
colossal
Wow this is pretty amazing but also pretty scary. I wonder how many times more complex & time consuming this is vs building the Mutable Instruments Anushri ? a lot but 10, 100. 1000, just dumb ass question ?

On the other hand has anyone said they plan to build and sell ?
NS4W
I THINK IT WILL BE 74 TIMES MOAR DIFIKULT MY ASS IS BLEEDING
raisinbag
I've never built MI module, but this looks like just a giant pcb to me. I think the only wiring it to power supply and speakers. I figure if you just take your time and solder cleanly, and follow the instructions which I'm sure will be amazing, it won't be too brutal.
mOBiTh
colossal wrote:
Wow this is pretty amazing but also pretty scary. I wonder how many times more complex & time consuming this is vs building the Mutable Instruments Anushri ? a lot but 10, 100. 1000, just dumb ass question ?

On the other hand has anyone said they plan to build and sell ?


I will be depending on availability, time, funding at the time etc 8_)
Rod Serling Fan Club
Eliminating the wiring will make it a much easier build. Zthee separated the sections so its more like your building a module at a time. Considering the size of the project I think the difficulty and risks are greatly reduced.
colossal
Cheers guys, really like the look of it. I will have to make a decision based on my time availability and the option of someone else doing the hard work.

mOBiTh I take it you will be advertising you availability here as we go.
wsy
my zero cents on Designator vs. Value:

Tradition has it that you put designators next to each circuit element. Not under, just
nearby.

Occasionally, adding the value as well (especially for parts that might need replacing
like fuses) can be helpful. Really helpful, actually. Right there on the silkscreen:
"250 volt 0.5 amp" is the best thing ever when you're trying to fix a DVM that some
intern blew up. Again, not under, just nearby (so you can read it with the part in place).

NASA spec is that you don't have to put values, but it's helpful - AND (more importantly)
each part must be placed so that it is possible to read the part identification label
after soldering, during inspection. If you can't read the label on the part, that's
an automatic fail; the part must be pulled and replaced. If design precludes proper
readable placement, the design fails; you must redesign the board. If other reasons
mandate that particular placment, you need the signature of the chief of NASA
to overrule that.

I'd *like* designators, I'd *like* values placed so you can read them after solderdown,
but guess what:

I DON'T GET A VOTE.

Zthee is the only one who has this kind of skin in the game, and what he says, goes.

- Bill
zthee
wsy wrote:
NASA spec is that you don't have to put values, but it's helpful - AND (more importantly)
each part must be placed so that it is possible to read the part identification label
after soldering, during inspection. If you can't read the label on the part, that's
an automatic fail; the part must be pulled and replaced. If design precludes proper
readable placement, the design fails; you must redesign the board. If other reasons
mandate that particular placment, you need the signature of the chief of NASA
to overrule that.


Let's hope none of these ends up in orbit then! hihi It's peanut butter jelly time!
bruce.cichowlas
I think that since the 2600 is so modular, debugging the PCB, if required, will be much easier than another project with a comparable number of parts. If it doesn't work, just start with a VCO. Does it oscillate? Can you control the frequency? Then go on from there.
10011001


behold the MiniMeanie
bruce.cichowlas
I was fortunate to have the opportunity to spend two hours this afternoon with Alan Pearlman and his wife, Buena.

Alan is still much as I remembered him from the several years in which we saw one another almost daily. When one talks with Alan, the conversation can take many turns and sometimes it is almost like several conversations at once. I'm a bit like that, too, so it was fun and we covered a lot of ground, a good part of it about music.

I told him a bit about this project and the DIY group here. He smiled a lot to hear that there was so much interest about the 2600. He reminded me that he won't endorse anything since it had proved to be just too complicated once before and neither of us really know where the actual rights to the 2600 reside now, if anywhere.

I told him about the 70% scale and mentioned that the people on this forum even knew what a "Blue Marvin" was. I wasn't at ARP then, but Alan related that though the Blue Marvin was good musically, he was personally concerned that it had just too many protruding parts and not really conducive to how musical instruments are used. Others seemed not so worried, so Alan went home and built something like the familiar case today with some wood and other parts from the hardware store to show his conception of how it would go together. I always find out something new when I talk to Alan.

I'm going to send him the link to the forum, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if he looks through the postings.
raisinbag
Wow, so cool that synth lovers old and new are all coming together so passionately. This thread is like a good drama, history lesson and documenary all rolled into one. SlayerBadger!
AnalogBastard
Nice rendering job 10011001 thumbs up
Low-Gain
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
I was fortunate to have the opportunity to spend two hours this afternoon with Alan Pearlman and his wife, Buena.

Alan is still much as I remembered him from the several years in which we saw one another almost daily. When one talks with Alan, the conversation can take many turns and sometimes it is almost like several conversations at once. I'm a bit like that, too, so it was fun and we covered a lot of ground, a good part of it about music.

I told him a bit about this project and the DIY group here. He smiled a lot to hear that there was so much interest about the 2600. He reminded me that he won't endorse anything since it had proved to be just too complicated once before and neither of us really know where the actual rights to the 2600 reside now, if anywhere.

I told him about the 70% scale and mentioned that the people on this forum even knew what a "Blue Marvin" was. I wasn't at ARP then, but Alan related that though the Blue Marvin was good musically, he was personally concerned that it had just too many protruding parts and not really conducive to how musical instruments are used. Others seemed not so worried, so Alan went home and built something like the familiar case today with some wood and other parts from the hardware store to show his conception of how it would go together. I always find out something new when I talk to Alan.

I'm going to send him the link to the forum, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if he looks through the postings.



SlayerBadger!
tojpeters
Perhaps Mr. Pearlman might like one for himself? I'd be glad to kick in a little extra to help fund it and/or do the build for him.
zthee
That idea was brought up a few hundred pages ago, and I think the consensus was that we should leave him alone...
Mongo1
Just my $.02

Bob Moog gets so much credit for synthesis, but as an Engineer, I admire Alan Pearlman so much more. It's clear he understood and CARED about the user when he created his instruments.

When I looked at Moog systems back in the day, I was impressed with all the knobs and such. They were big, black, and shiny.

When I looked at an ARP product, I was *excited*. The odyssey with it's multi-colored sliders, the 2600 with little schematic graphics, and slide pots everywhere. It looked like something out of a Star Trek episode. I just wanted to get my hands on one so badly. I could hear it calling to me. I never got that from a Moog. Nothing even close.

So Zthee - thanks for this huge effort. And Alan Pearlman - thanks for giving me a dream that's lasted 40 years. That's something most people can't do.


Gary
bruce.cichowlas
When I visited with Alan yesterday, I was pretty sure it was a 2600 case that I saw under his grand piano. We talked about everything from cosmology to classical music conducting sometimes several topics at once --- that's how he is, creative ideas in all of them. "I've wondered if one could..." I'm sorry that I hadn't kept up with him for so many years.

Later, I was remembering working with Mike Suchoff at ARP and wondering if he could be contacted. I didn't find a way, but did run across this interesting link on ARP patents in the process http://www.till.com/articles/arp/patents.html
mechacthulhu
I just want to say I love this project.

I am trying to get my skills up so I can build this when its ready.
Randy
Bruce, I just noticed you are in Framingham. I spent time there on business (TJX) and even managed to get a tour of Kurzweil R&D. You are lucky I didn't know about you, I would have been hounding you to let me buy you dinner just to hear your stories.

Randy
exwel
very nice!!!
thebot
bruce.cichowlas wrote:
I suspect most of you have seen the great info and pics here http://www.vintagesynth.com/arp/arp.php, but I didn't know the bit about R2-D2!


Also used (by the same sound artist, naturally) for the sounds of the ark of the covenant in Raiders of the Lost Ark, as I found out this week! This thread earned me cred points at home, my wife was watching the DVD extras for Raiders and stopped it and shouted me through - 'this guy did the sound effects, and he used the same synth as he used for R2D2' - oh, the ARP2600? - 'eh, yes? How do you know that?'. lol
Kopter
thebot wrote:
my wife was watching the DVD extras for Raiders


Yup, she sounds like a keeper! smile
zthee




2nd prototype boards are in. Feels great! Hope to be able to finish this as quick as possible.

Already spent 2h building the VCOs.

Rex Coil 7
applause
Thaknar
It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners
a100user
we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy
fonik
this is so exciting!
Low-Gain
are the vco/vcf modules header spacing .1" ?
Jarno
Looks great!
Lots of transistor matching!
What's that TO can in the middle vco?
cleaninglady
yesss !!!!! looking great ! hyper hyper hyper hyper
chinard
cant wait!!! love
roglok
the boards looks so damn classy on the white marble and cutting board backdrops

Champagne
gwaidan
Niiiice!
moog55
awesome progress, zthee! looking forward to hearing this prototype!
zthee
Low-Gain wrote:
are the vco/vcf modules header spacing .1" ?


Yes. The idea is to put headers there and then use a wire strap to fasten it to the board. But either the components need to have a lower profile, or the headers need to be tall for it to work.
numan7
zthee wrote:



oops mmm-mmm-mmmhhhh... those look so dense... and delicious (just like blue candy tarts)! Homer Simpson
seriously, i just don't get it i'm feeling a completely irrational desire to hold the three of them in my hands, Dinner at the Y them (after having thoroughly rinsed my mouth) and then juggle them... right this very moment (and i promise not to drop them)! Play Him Off, Keyboard Cat.

Lotsa Love

cheers
3vcos
I didn't realize it until I saw the last photo, you've included a switcher for power. I think that's an effecient way to make the correct rails. Neat.



zthee wrote:




2nd prototype boards are in. Feels great! Hope to be able to finish this as quick as possible.

Already spent 2h building the VCOs.

netpusher
Anxiously anticipating this, awesome progress!
EML
Hi,
I just joined in. What a fantastic project!
Sorry if this has been answered before, I tried to read through the messages but I din't find the answer.

I would like to use different colours for the leds on the sliders like some of the odyssey pictures on the net.
I went over to the Mouser website to see what is available, but then I noticed that Mouser only has linear 60mm Bourns PTL sliders hmmm..... In the PTL datasheet it says 60mm audio PTL sliders exist but Mouser does not have them on the website.

zthee, where did you find the 60mm audio sliders?
zthee
EML wrote:
I would like to use different colours for the leds on the sliders like some of the odyssey pictures on the net.


You can remove the LEDs from the sliders, they look like normal rectangular ones. So they should be easy to replace.
mOBiTh
zthee wrote:
EML wrote:
I would like to use different colours for the leds on the sliders like some of the odyssey pictures on the net.


You can remove the LEDs from the sliders, they look like normal rectangular ones. So they should be easy to replace.


Is there a metal slider equivalent, just out of interest?

The AMSynths 2600 filter uses lovely metal sliders - would prefer these over the plastic ones if it's possible.

I have these same (I assume they're the same) plastic ones on my EuroKlee and there's nothing wrong with them - the LEDs make good sense in this application too - but also there's not much wiggling going on in this application whereas with the Arp it'll get a lot more vigorous fader action from me hihi

Just a thought. If it's plastic only, I'm going to invest in a fair number of spares.
zthee
mOBiTh wrote:
Is there a metal slider equivalent, just out of interest?


The footprint matches both Alps and Bourns sliders. So changing to a metal slider should be no problem.

To repeat myself - The reason there is a LED slider is because it's the one that is easily available with the values needed.
EML
zthee wrote:
EML wrote:
I would like to use different colours for the leds on the sliders like some of the odyssey pictures on the net.


You can remove the LEDs from the sliders, they look like normal rectangular ones. So they should be easy to replace.


Thanks for the reply, but still, there don't seem to be any ptl60 audio sliders in any ledcolour on the mouser website.
As soon as I select 60mm + audio I get 'please modify your search so that it will return results'.

I can only select linear. if I choose 45 mm I can also select audio. Can you please give me the partnumber you used for the 100K Audio and 1M audio 60mm PTL60 sliders?
zthee
EML wrote:
Can you please give me the partnumber you used for the 100K Audio and 1M audio 60mm PTL60 sliders?


When the BOM is 100% complete I will post it on the website. Before that I prefer not to share any part numbers. The reason being everything might change and it would be bad if people bought stuff that they'd have no use for later.
mOBiTh
zthee wrote:
mOBiTh wrote:
Is there a metal slider equivalent, just out of interest?


The footprint matches both Alps and Bourns sliders. So changing to a metal slider should be no problem.

To repeat myself - The reason there is a LED slider is because it's the one that is easily available with the values needed.


Ah that's super news. Fingers crossed I can get all the values I need...

(missed your previous comment - sorry!)
EML
zthee wrote:
EML wrote:
Can you please give me the partnumber you used for the 100K Audio and 1M audio 60mm PTL60 sliders?


When the BOM is 100% complete I will post it on the website. Before that I prefer not to share any part numbers. The reason being everything might change and it would be bad if people bought stuff that they'd have no use for later.

Ok, no problem I understand.
But can you tell me if you are using 45 mm or 60mm sliders in the pictures?
amnesia
EML wrote:
zthee wrote:
EML wrote:
Can you please give me the partnumber you used for the 100K Audio and 1M audio 60mm PTL60 sliders?


When the BOM is 100% complete I will post it on the website. Before that I prefer not to share any part numbers. The reason being everything might change and it would be bad if people bought stuff that they'd have no use for later.

Ok, no problem I understand.
But can you tell me if you are using 45 mm or 60mm sliders in the pictures?


Just let him get on with it and be patient :-)
EML
amnesia wrote:
EML wrote:
zthee wrote:
EML wrote:
Can you please give me the partnumber you used for the 100K Audio and 1M audio 60mm PTL60 sliders?


When the BOM is 100% complete I will post it on the website. Before that I prefer not to share any part numbers. The reason being everything might change and it would be bad if people bought stuff that they'd have no use for later.

Ok, no problem I understand.
But can you tell me if you are using 45 mm or 60mm sliders in the pictures?


Just let him get on with it and be patient :-)

thumbs up Ok I will have some patience until he releases the BOM.
But at the moment it is a mysterie to me, compared to the VCO boards which are 45mm x45mm, the sliders seem larger so I would guess they are 60mm.
But I just contacted both Mouser and Bourns and Mouser doesn't have them and according to Bourns 60mm 100K and 1M sliders with audio taper were never built.

Mail from Bourns:
The reason you could not find these items via any distributor is that we never built these types yet.

PTL60 items have a min.order qty of 750 pcs.
So, I am sorry to say but I don't think we will be able to help here unless you need 750pcs.
Monobass
Well i'm pretty sure from the photos he is using types that *have* been built, I'm pretty sure it's not a render smile

Also as I stated above, as I'm very likely doing kits, I'll also very likely do a slider group buy.

I don't have the BOM either yet. Zthee hasn't given that out for the very good reasons he stated. It's all gonna be fine smile
sduck
Please wait. And there are other sources of parts. When the time comes, I'm sure there will be a working bom.
oozitron
The TTSH project is one of two that I am super excited about.

The other one is this:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=83363&postdays=0&pos torder=asc&start=0

If you want a kick-ass poly to go with your TTSH, check it out SlayerBadger!

Drew
ChrisWareham
Monobass wrote:
... as I stated above, as I'm very likely doing kits, I'll also very likely do a slider group buy.


If I'm not too late, please count me in for a group buy for kits. The ARP 2600 is the one synth I thought I'd never be able to own, despite lusting after one since I saw it in a retrospective review (Music Technology magazine back in the 1980's).
Monobass
The kits won't be a group buy, it'll be based on an automated pre-order system that I'm yet to determine. But the slider group buy will just be a regular open group buy on Muffs.

So please don't start PMing me or Emailing me, there is no waiting list yet and it will be based on a web based form rather than though contacting me direct.
Rigo
oozitron wrote:
The TTSH project is one of two that I am super excited about.

The other one is this:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=83363&postdays=0&pos torder=asc&start=0

If you want a kick-ass poly to go with your TTSH, check it out SlayerBadger!

Drew

Indeed, 2 projects worth following ... though I don't see myself building an OBx replica, seems much more complicated than the TTSH. Nice reading though thumbs up
Now, next week is July already It's peanut butter jelly time! Who said we are not patient enough ?
Thaknar
I hope my tax refund is on my bank account when this project is ready for ordering smile looks just so good!!
ninthlamp
Just my $.02 worth, zthee, on the TTSH power supplies:
In the past, when I've used 2 switcher power supplies in an audio design, I've 'locked' the 2 together so that they run at the same switching frequency.
The reason being that if they are allowed to free-run, intermodulation effects creep in to the audio path.

Often, switcher power supply ICs have the facility to allow them to be frequency locked to other ICs

This may or may not be an issue with the TTSH but I hope it helps.
acealive
Thaknar wrote:
I hope my tax refund is on my bank account when this project is ready for ordering smile looks just so good!!


you're late with your taxes .g.

I already spent my tax return :(
raisinbag
Only things that are certain in life are DIY and taxes.
Thaknar
acealive wrote:
Thaknar wrote:
I hope my tax refund is on my bank account when this project is ready for ordering smile looks just so good!!


you're late with your taxes .g.

I already spent my tax return :(


I know whistlin'
was and still am busy writing a bachelorthesis... no time for nothing :(
zthee


It's about 98% populated, missing the components associated with the LEDs and also a few trimmers. So it hasn't been tested. But it fits behind the panel, which is nice.
Isaiah
Rockin' Banana!
gwaidan
thumbs up
Jarno
applause
Waz
Any idea on how much this will cost? Will you offer a kit? I will have to sell some stuff in order to put money aside for this. The 2600 was the 1st synth I put my hands on. I need to build this.
Isaiah
Waz wrote:
Any idea on how much this will cost? Will you offer a kit? I will have to sell some stuff in order to put money aside for this. The 2600 was the 1st synth I put my hands on. I need to build this.



http://thehumancomparator.net/ thumbs up
stevieraysean
thats looking pretty awesome.
Paradigm X
zthee wrote:
is nice.


thumbs up [/img]
negativspace
Three-bacon salute:

It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo
Thaknar
oh the stuff I want to do with it hyper hyper hyper
Reese P. Dubin
I would love an unfinished panel like that one pictured.
paults
Bit of advice: Make the jack panel holes bigger than 'normal' to account for:

a) pcb warpage
b) DIYers not aligning the jacks perfectly vertical

On pcbs this long, it can be difficult to get the jacks in there once all done.
zthee
paults wrote:
Bit of advice: Make the jack panel holes bigger than 'normal' to account for:

a) pcb warpage
b) DIYers not aligning the jacks perfectly vertical

On pcbs this long, it can be difficult to get the jacks in there once all done.


Aye! Thanks. I had actually taken that into account with this panel. But it needs a bit of fine tuning, as it's perhaps a bit too tight right now. Though it only takes me about a minute or so to squeeze the PCB into the panel, so it's not difficult. But as I said, it needs some minor adjustments.
Microscopial
Hey zthee did you get my pm buddy
Rex Coil 7
zthee wrote:


It's about 98% populated, missing the components associated with the LEDs and also a few trimmers. So it hasn't been tested. But it fits behind the panel, which is nice.
Just letting my imagination run a little (I'm not suggesting any changes or whatever .. I'm just thinking out loud here).

This image inspired the thought of an unpainted stainless steel panel that would have laser engraved graphics and control markings. Man that would look insanely cool! So the panel would pretty much look just like it does in this picture but with laser etched graphics. No polished finish, just that raw look about it, made in stainless steel. Holy CATS that would look killer.

I'm not suggesting that zthee change anything, I'm just talking here.
P. Grinder
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
zthee wrote:


It's about 98% populated, missing the components associated with the LEDs and also a few trimmers. So it hasn't been tested. But it fits behind the panel, which is nice.
Just letting my imagination run a little (I'm not suggesting any changes or whatever .. I'm just thinking out loud here).

This image inspired the thought of an unpainted stainless steel panel that would have laser engraved graphics and control markings. Man that would look insanely cool! So the panel would pretty much look just like it does in this picture but with laser etched graphics. No polished finish, just that raw look about it, made in stainless steel. Holy CATS that would look killer.

I'm not suggesting that zthee change anything, I'm just talking here.


Quote:
Hum, I'd like to see a TTSH panel with that greenish color used for those Bruel & Kjaer lab modules such as the Type 1027 Sine Random Generator. Perfect color for those orange led sliders.
Mongo1
I really just want to see one in my music room Mr. Green
Gary
diablojoy
hmm
Quote:
No polished finish, just that raw look about it, made in stainless steel

now that just made me think of maybe doing a highly polished chrome panel but then with either you would be pulling out a cleaning rag every five minutes to get rid of the finger marks. d'oh! would definitely be a look though.
Rex Coil 7
diablojoy wrote:
hmm
Quote:
No polished finish, just that raw look about it, made in stainless steel

now that just made me think of maybe doing a highly polished chrome panel but then with either you would be pulling out a cleaning rag every five minutes to get rid of the finger marks. d'oh! would definitely be a look though.
Which is exactly why I said "no polished finish".

8_)
diablojoy
Quote:
Which is exactly why I said "no polished finish".


yeah you will still get fingerprints showing though on stainless even with a brushed surface
however there is a nickel plate available which looks the same that doesn't apparently.
Rex Coil 7
diablojoy wrote:
Quote:
Which is exactly why I said "no polished finish".


yeah you will still get fingerprints showing though on stainless even with a brushed surface
however there is a nickel plate available which looks the same that doesn't apparently.
Not brushed stainless, not polished stainless ... raw mill-surfaced stainless. I use it all the time. Just as it is delivered straight from the steel mill. Matte nickel will print about the same as raw stainless, but I'd rather have raw stainless, it just has a certain look to it.
nathanxl
zthee wrote:

... nice.


OMFG eek!
appliancide
53. Sporadic Heavy Breathing
Randy
That is such a cool panel!
Luap
I don't much care how the panel looks, personally. Zthee's standard design looks fine to me. But if he happens to provide the panel files, then there is nothing stopping you guys having Front Panel Express or whomever making you any style panel you like.
bananeurysm
Luap wrote:
I don't much care how the panel looks, personally. Zthee's standard design looks fine to me. But if he happens to provide the panel files, then there is nothing stopping you guys having Front Panel Express or whomever making you any style panel you like.


True... Zthee are you planning on releasing your panel design? Or at least a template with the cuts?
demian
I don't think it is something you could ask, asking for sourcefiles.
Zthee is doing an awesome job and he will supply you with pcb's and a panel if you want and that is really great!

It wouldn't cross my mind to ask for source files while you know the person is going to sell a product based on those same source files.

If you really would like a panel in another style, buy the pcb's or a complete kit, measure everything and make your own panel, in this way you support Zthee more than asking for source files.
bananeurysm
Asking for source files should never be construed as unsupportive. It's always 100% up to the maker/seller/builder/creator to choose to release them or not - and I would never take issue or try to argue with anyone's decision to release, or not release them.

I support closed source commercial projects, and I support open source commercial projects.

That said.. I wasn't even asking for source files - just a drill template for diy panels. This is a diy forum... Again - I wouldn't have any problem with Zthee keeping the drill template closed as well - that's his perogative.

Nothing offensive about asking.
chaosium
And, really, if someone was going through the trouble to "steal" his redesign to compete, they'd be looking for more than just the front panel.
P. Grinder
Hi Zthee,

This panel looks REALLY great, but pretty tight in regards to the PCB size per what I can see (or assume). The original 2600 had more headroom at the edges with more holes to secure the panel to the enclosure's frame. Then again, this ain't the final revision per what I read in earlier posts and since this is a scaled down version of the original maybe 4 holes to secure the plate to an enclosure would suffice.

Regardless, if you have the opportunity to upload a pic of the back of the panel with the PCB attached it would be pretty interesting.

Thanks.
craigwilliamsmusic
nathanxl wrote:
zthee wrote:

... nice.


OMFG eek!


hahahahahah what he said Dead Banana
Jarno
P. Grinder wrote:
Hi Zthee,

This panel looks REALLY great, but pretty tight in regards to the PCB size per what I can see (or assume). The original 2600 had more headroom at the edges with more holes to secure the panel to the enclosure's frame. Then again, this ain't the final revision per what I read in earlier posts and since this is a scaled down version of the original maybe 4 holes to secure the plate to an enclosure would suffice.

Regardless, if you have the opportunity to upload a pic of the back of the panel with the PCB attached it would be pretty interesting.

Thanks.


There's the option of screwing the brackets to the panel before mounting it in the enclosure. Brackets would be between frontpanel and pcb.
mOBiTh
I'd rather have no mounting holes and have the whole panel 'slot-loading' into the case, if possible (sorry if already discussed).

Is the final panel gonna be steel or ally? (apolgies if im not paying attention here)
10011001
how about one with MakeNoise graphics? eek!
Captain Sternn
Just wanna say I think this project is really exciting. Considering the price and reliability problems of vintage gear (I've encountered at least) a diy alternative is perfect. Between this and the MS20 reissue maybe there is hope for a full on vintage revival *cough*Roland*cough*.

I really like the original grey and white panel design.
wsy
If I get a say (which I really don't) then I'd much prefer white-on-black or black-on-white.

Reason: I am old enough to remember the 2600 when it first came out! That comes with
the usual "old eyes" issues (presbyopia) and I find black/white or white/black MUCH easier
to read than lower-contrast color schemes.

- Bill
P. Grinder
Any color will do as long as I can get my hands on one of these kits. I sold mine 20 years ago and I've been nostalgic about it ever since... Even if I remember it's tendency to go out of tune in record time.
lessavyfav
Happy 50th page! My condolences to any readers just coming in now, you have your catching up work cut out for you. I wish there was a "previously on" montage for this thread!
synaptech
lessavyfav wrote:
Happy 50th page! My condolences to any readers just coming in now, you have your catching up work cut out for you. I wish there was a "previously on" montage for this thread!

lol

I always have the same thought when I discover an awesome project with a 50 page thread, time to clear out an afternoon to catch up. grin

(Of course I had to add my own waste post to the thread)
psychgrave
I'm surprised that no one's asked since the panel pic has been posted, but could we get an *approximate* measurement of its size? I know you said before that you don't want to post that in case it changes but I'm just interested in the sense that I'm going to have to make some space for it. I promise I'm not going to start building a case based on your answer! razz 73% of original means nothing to me as I am math-challenged...
roglok
Original dimensions:
32" × 18"

Scaled down (73%):
23.36" × 13.14"
or 59,33 cm × 33,38 cm
psychgrave
roglok wrote:
Original dimensions:
32" × 18"

Scaled down (73%):
23.36" × 13.14"
or 59,33 cm × 33,38 cm


Thanks a lot, that helps! Now I can dream with a little more accuracy...
meatbeatz
I'm thinking ABS flight case myself..

blingy
Just wanted to say thank you for doing this. I've been lurking and can't wait for the kits. Take your time, do it right. It's peanut butter jelly time!
10011001


hyper hyper hyper
filmersam
That looks real nice.
olga42
Cool render hyper
Before we leave ARP it also needs a Solina string chorus and the Quadra phaser. And a keyboard interface for the few who have old ARP keyboards Rockin' Banana!
meatbeatz
Goodness gracious! Man that looks awesome!

Is that folding? Can we have a look at the side view?
plord
Hmmmm. I have a set of Juergen's (R.I.P.) Solina Chorus boards. And his Schulte Phaser kit.

Hmmmm. Re-thinking case options now...
beyourdog
Class version with the Sequencer. looks like a Starwar death star board to blow away a planet lol
snoop
Is everything scaled down on this clone? How about the sub modules for the osc's? will it be possible to use the CMS sub modules for VCO's?
zthee
The TTSH is design to be used with the stuff it comes with, not with anything else.

But if you're creative you can probably make stuff fit.
snoop
Thanks, so the sub modules are scaled down like the rest of the design?
Morley
Any idea if this will happen? Have been AWOL lately!
zthee
It'll happen alright. Right now I'm on schedule, but there's still things I need to sort out. Mostly boring business stuff, and right now everyone is on vacation so I can't fix it until August... But once that's all settled it's a go.

Ooops, post #1000.
P. Grinder
Zthee,

Can I get an autographed picture of you with my order???? we're not worthy
craigwilliamsmusic
P. Grinder wrote:
Zthee,

Can I get an autographed picture of you with my order???? we're not worthy


hahahahahahaha signed head shots for all This is fun!
Paradigm X
craigwilliamsmusic wrote:
P. Grinder wrote:
Zthee,

Can I get an autographed picture of you with my order???? we're not worthy


hahahahahahaha signed head shots for all This is fun!


It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo

triple bacon appreciation.

In fact, front panel should comprise signed photoheads.
Morley
zthee wrote:
It'll happen alright. Right now I'm on schedule, but there's still things I need to sort out. Mostly boring business stuff, and right now everyone is on vacation so I can't fix it until August... But once that's all settled it's a go.

Ooops, post #1000.


Sounds cool!
zthee
So for prototype #2 - I've tested Ringmodulator, VCO 1-3, VCF, ADSR, VCA, Noise, Voltage Processor, S&H, internal clock, mixer and reverb. And it works as it should. There has been very few problems so far, and the ones I've had I've been able to solve very quickly. Only thing after that is the amps for the speakers. Which I expect to work.

DC-DC converter is OK. It will require some further testing though, as it hasn't been the priority. It works as it should, is not burning up and I've yet to see it affecting anything in terms of audio modulation.

Only thing I have to sort out now is the LED driver, as it's not working as expected. I'll get new parts tomorrow and then it should be fine. I hope.

Have to say I think this new prototype responds much better than the old one. Probably due to changing the tempcos to their original values. It now behaves much as the 2600 I tested the old one against.

Hope to post pictures and maybe a video this weekend.
roman_f
zthee wrote:
So for prototype #2 - I've tested Ringmodulator, VCO 1-3, VCF, ADSR, VCA, Noise, Voltage Processor, S&H, internal clock, mixer and reverb. And it works as it should. There has been very few problems so far, and the ones I've had I've been able to solve very quickly. Only thing after that is the amps for the speakers. Which I expect to work.

DC-DC converter is OK. It will require some further testing though, as it hasn't been the priority. It works as it should, is not burning up and I've yet to see it affecting anything in terms of audio modulation.

Only thing I have to sort out now is the LED driver, as it's not working as expected. I'll get new parts tomorrow and then it should be fine. I hope.

Have to say I think this new prototype responds much better than the old one. Probably due to changing the tempcos to their original values. It now behaves much as the 2600 I tested the old one against.

Hope to post pictures and maybe a video this weekend.



w00t
mOBiTh
innit
demian
I wonder always one thing with prototypes..

Do you desolder the more expensive parts and re-use them with the next prototype or do you order all parts again ?
zthee
demian wrote:
Do you desolder the more expensive parts and re-use them with the next prototype or do you order all parts again ?


I order new parts all again. It's not worth the time to desolder stuff and mess around imho.
roman_f
demian wrote:
I wonder always one thing with prototypes..

Do you desolder the more expensive parts and re-use them with the next prototype or do you order all parts again ?


in my case - i always use new parts for prototypes, but i desolder expensive parts from the old protos (switches, vactrols, remove ic's from sockets) and keep all them in one box for future purposes.
negativspace
Same... I reuse or socket as much as I can. Most of my prototype failures are not catastrophic so the parts are fine.
Jason Rodriguez
Zthee: What will you end up doing with this or the first Prototype?
10011001
meatbeatz wrote:
Goodness gracious! Man that looks awesome!

Is that folding? Can we have a look at the side view?




not much to see on the side
zthee
Jason Rodriguez wrote:
Zthee: What will you end up doing with this or the first Prototype?


The second one will fit behind a panel, so that I can probably just assemble and use. The first one won't fit anything and it's kind of wonky (Some pots go backwards and so on), so it's kind of useless - If it wasn't I'd probably sell it. But now I can't.
Jason Rodriguez
I'd still buy it!
sduck
Auction it off to benefit muffwiggler and a fix for the forum speed slowdown problem! Although if I was you I'd keep it.
zthee
I'll keep it. No good selling stuff I'm not pleased with.



But this feels good! This is fun!
mOBiTh
zthee wrote:
I'll keep it. No good selling stuff I'm not pleased with.



But this feels good! This is fun!


my god that looks amazing!

MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING
jmcecil
All I can say is "My God, it's full of stars"
meatbeatz
10011001 wrote:
not much to see on the side


Nice. What do you plan making this out of?

zthee The panel looks amazing. It's been great to watch as this project takes shape.
oozitron
jmcecil wrote:
All I can say is "My God, it's full of stars"


Twentysix Thousand and One - An LED Odyssey"

Looks fantastic :-)

Drew
jmcecil
I need to know how many testicles it will cost so I can start harvesting early.
zthee
[s]http://soundcloud.com/info-1822/ttsh-prototype-2-current[/s]

Haven't trimmed it in. Just a first test when it's behind panel. Still pleased with it!
Rigo
w00t
wsy
Zthree:

No matter how you spin it, it looks great.

Let us know if there's anything you need. Just ask...

- Bill
Paradigm X
zthee wrote:
[s]http://soundcloud.com/info-1822/ttsh-prototype-2-current[/s]

Haven't trimmed it in. Just a first test when it's behind panel. Still pleased with it!


holy crap !

excuse my ignorance but is that all live in one take, or multitracked?
we're not worthy
zthee
Paradigm X wrote:
excuse my ignorance but is that all live in one take, or multitracked?


It's live in one take.
Paradigm X
wow

amazing.


This is fun!
P. Grinder
Zthee,

Maybe to early too ask but.... How many kits are you planning to make available in the first batch? I'm under the impression you'll be faced with high demand. hyper
Morley
zthee wrote:
[s]http://soundcloud.com/info-1822/ttsh-prototype-2-current[/s]

Haven't trimmed it in. Just a first test when it's behind panel. Still pleased with it!


Sounds like it should.
Sold!!
moog55
i think i just doubled my order. again...
guillaume10
Hi,
What kind of solder are you using for this project??
With silver or not???
Guillaume
monno
Damn! Been following this post since it started and my jaw is closer and closer to the ground. This is something i could see myself putting together during the dark and cold winter months for sure!

Something like this makes the boy inside of me scream "gimme,gimme,gimme,gimme" The adult in me is standing right next to screaming the exact same thing (an octave or so lower)

Thinking of projects like this makes my head a very strange place to inhabit (but in a good way)
zthee
Morley wrote:
Sounds like it should.


Could be one of the most important comments in this thread. Thank you sir!
snoop
Morley is sold because you included his favourite bass drum in the track hihi

...sounds damn good btw
dangorange
Yeah, this is really amazing, sounds fantastic!
zthee
snoop wrote:
Morley is sold because you included his favourite bass drum in the track hihi


I made a small modification though, since I wanted to use the filter - So it's the sine of VCO 2 going to the preamp instead.The electronic switch is used to flip between that sound and noise. And the output of the preamp goes through the envelope follower, into the lag (it does this prewired, so no patching is needed, very smooth!) and the lagged output is used to control the pitch of VCO 1 which ones the rest of the gang in the filter. Sprinkle some reverb over it and cook for about 1.43.

I made a little wooden box for it today. So now the only thing left is to use it for a couple of weeks and find out if it's working as it should or not.

Slabwax
we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy
synchromesh
Slabwax wrote:
we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy


something wonderful dizzy Drunken Homer Simpson Gudomlig!
brandon daniel
Fantastic work, sir. something wonderful
Autophase
ive got to stop torturing my self by reading this thread and checking the videos over and over again every couple of weeks, its not gonna make t available any sooner.
I really cant wait to get my hands on the kit.

I really hope the latest prototype is working as it should.

This is definately the most exciting DIY project I have ever encountered.
zthee
Autophase wrote:
I really hope the latest prototype is working as it should.


So far it is.

The 2 problems I have found so far is -
The LEDs dim unevenly on low settings and the current draw of the speaker amps is too much on high volumes, causing the DC-DC converter to cut off.

The first one I will probably solve by setting the lowest point for the LED higher than when it gets uneven.
The second one can probably be fixed with a large converter.
Autophase
zthee wrote:

So far it is.

the current draw of the speaker amps is too much on high volumes, causing the DC-DC converter to cut off.
.


doesnt bother me, ill be going straight in to a desk, no need for the speakers 8_)
but its a nice option.
Jarno
The question is whether you actually want to go that route, because it's likely that the converter will need to be a lot bigger. Maybe just use an amp fed from a unipolar supply? Yes, you'll need a cap, but if you fit a bigger converter, it'll spit out more HF junk you need to get rid of somehow, and soundquality from the speakers is perhaps not that critical.
zthee
Jarno wrote:
The question is whether you actually want to go that route, because it's likely that the converter will need to be a lot bigger. Maybe just use an amp fed from a unipolar supply? Yes, you'll need a cap, but if you fit a bigger converter, it'll spit out more HF junk you need to get rid of somehow, and soundquality from the speakers is perhaps not that critical.


Another option is also to cap the speakers, so it never goes above higher than it should. That's just 2 resistors. I'll try it tonight.
seanpark
So I've never built anything with PCB-mounted panel components...

What is the typical technique here?

My instinct is to minimize stress by gently assembling everything before soldering. Solder everything, then back off all the jack nuts a little and retighten in a few incremental sweeps across the panel... Probably not linear sweeps.
seanpark
So I've never built anything with PCB-mounted panel components...

What is the typical technique here?

My instinct is to minimize stress by gently assembling everything before soldering. Solder everything, then back off all the jack nuts a little and retighten in a few incremental sweeps across the panel... Probably not linear sweeps.
simfonik
I feel like I've added my name to the list at least a few times now... just to be safe, you know? help hihi
Monobass
seanpark wrote:
So I've never built anything with PCB-mounted panel components...

What is the typical technique here?

My instinct is to minimize stress by gently assembling everything before soldering. Solder everything, then back off all the jack nuts a little and retighten in a few incremental sweeps across the panel... Probably not linear sweeps.


Yeah assembling before soldering I think. It's certainly going to be an extreme example of that though smile

Maybe just soldering one leg on a few key pieces first?
roglok
Monobass wrote:
seanpark wrote:
So I've never built anything with PCB-mounted panel components...

What is the typical technique here?

My instinct is to minimize stress by gently assembling everything before soldering. Solder everything, then back off all the jack nuts a little and retighten in a few incremental sweeps across the panel... Probably not linear sweeps.


Yeah assembling before soldering I think. It's certainly going to be an extreme example of that though smile

Maybe just soldering one leg on a few key pieces first?


It depends on thickness and quality of the PCB too. I use stripboard quite often - when the solder cools down, it contracts. This may warp the PCB. For this reason I don't use Pertinax but phenolic stripboard. But even some phenolic warps quite a bit - depending on manufacturing quality, I suppose.

Of course stripboard eats more solder than a fabbed PCB, but I imagine at this size it might warp a little as well...
alexdsteak
Just throwing my 2 cents in the pot here..
I suppose the panel will have some "leeway" (2/3 tenth of a mm
should be enough) in the machined holes, so that some self-adjustment will
happen when it will be put over the PCB-mounted components...

A.
zthee
I haven't noticed any warp on the two I've built so far.. It's more that it bends under the weight of the jacks and sliders, so it goes a bit reversed U.

I mounted everything on board first and then just popped it together. If you solder just one leg of the jacks / sliders first (Though probably better to do 2 pads on the sliders, one at each end), then reheat the pad and push on the component down to make sure it's nice and flat against the board it should align properly.

The sliders are taller than the jacks, meaning they'll have to fit first, and they're bendy little buggers. But once all of them are through the panel it's a piece of cake to push the jacks in as well. The holes in the prototype panel are a bit too tight (I.e. jacks are 5.2mm wide, holes were 5.25mm wide), but I wouldn't say it was too difficult assembling it. Took me about 5-10 min of poking and squeezing and then it's done.

I'd say it's similar to assemble an x0xb0x, with aligning all the LEDs and push buttons. But slightly larger of course.
numan7
w00t ttsh prototype 2 is sounding so meaty, beaty, big and bouncy (in the latest audio sample on page 1, that is), like it just stepped right out of the early 1970s! SlayerBadger!

the excitement is continuing to build!

cheers
Paradigm X
just been given a small ish bonus at work, which should hopefully just cover this. perfect timing. hyper

Ive never really drooled over one but that last demo wsa immense, didnt realise you could make it 'polyphonic', ot whatever.

so ridiculously excited now!

thumbs up
Autophase
hey zthee, any chance you can time the release of the boards to the end of september to coincide with my birthday so i can easilly justify the purchase to the wife? lol

slgihtly serious question, is there a BOM, , it doesnt have to be final but I have loads of parts on my shelves so i would like to pick everything out so i know what i need to buy when i get the boards.
Hopefully doing that will kill some of the anticipation time for me.
seanpark
Autophase wrote:
hey zthee, any chance you can time the release of the boards to the end of september to coincide with my birthday so i can easilly justify the purchase to the wife? lol

slgihtly serious question, is there a BOM, , it doesnt have to be final but I have loads of parts on my shelves so i would like to pick everything out so i know what i need to buy when i get the boards.
Hopefully doing that will kill some of the anticipation time for me.


September is still the expected time.

zthee is not releasing a BOM until he knows 100% it's the final BOM for the boards we're getting.

I would read up on the ARP 2600 Owner's and Service Manuals which a former ARP engineer (!) linked to earlier in the thread if you're feeling as antsy as the rest of us Mr. Green Mr. Green

http://sonic.net/mjones/archive/docs/
synchromesh
seanpark wrote:
I would read up on the ARP 2600 Owner's and Service Manuals ...


From the second page of the Owner's Manual:

Quote:
[O]nly a careful study of the Instruction Manual will show you the infinite possibilities for sound production that are contained in the 2600.


Oooo... we're not worthy

Quote:
3. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, OPEN UP THE SYNTHESIZER OR IN ANY WAY MEDDLE WITH ITS INSIDES. This will immediately void your warranty.


Bwahahahaaa! screaming goo yo
synchromesh
dup drop
babysealclub
You might consider http://www.nice-racks.com/ for the boxes.

He does good work at very reasonable prices.
chaosium
synchromesh wrote:
Oooo... we're not worthy

Quote:
3. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, OPEN UP THE SYNTHESIZER OR IN ANY WAY MEDDLE WITH ITS INSIDES. This will immediately void your warranty.


Bwahahahaaa! screaming goo yo
MORTALS, DO NOT MEDDLE IN THE AFFAIRS OF WIZARDS Dead Banana
sascha.victoria
babysealclub wrote:
You might consider http://www.nice-racks.com/ for the boxes.

He does good work at very reasonable prices.


This is a great idea. I've ordered custom racks from him in the past and he's always a pleasure to deal with and fast to deliver.
Morley
I would ask Peter from mixingtable.com for a case
Friendly guy and nice looking stuff. They are in the Czech Republic.

http://www.mixingtable.com/?page_id=465


Jarno
That looks great!
phillybuster
that does look nice indeed, although I don't think I can resist building my own case for this project hyper

I'm really looking forward to seeing all the different homemade cases for this project. Maybe one should start looking for some camouflage-tolex just for the hell of it razz

I, like a lot of you, plan to build more than one of these, so there should be room to experiment with various case-designs.
kcr
I kind of want a tolex-covered flight case set up that looks like the original.
oozitron
I always liked the looks of Steve Roach's 2600:



Not sure if there's room in there for the reverb tho hmmm.....

Drew
raisinbag
that's a cool case. Just out of curiosity, are people more interested in portable cases with "lids" or are most looking for rack based "stay at home" cases. (you can always PM me with answers so you don't clog up this thread) just planning for the future and there seems to be a lot of case discussion, and I am working on some designs.
limpmeat
I'm thinking of doing a portable, tolex-ed monorocketish case for mine.
oozitron
How about a suitcase with hinges on one end. Open it up to reveal TWO of these sweethearts side by side This is fun! This is fun!

Drew
raisinbag
well i'm working on a few different designs, really just waiting for official measures, but playing in the mean time.

HAHA i was thinking about the two sided suitcase (solid walnut or maple kinda thing) but in the other half would be places for Euro or something rather shallow, so you could pack up some modules to go for the ride with your TTSH (Like Hex's Midi->CV, or jupiter storm or whatever your flavor of shallow module, etc.....). I was really just trying to get an idea what people might be after, but when the time comes and with zithees blessing, I will probably focus on custom requests. Just all the case chatter, got me curious, so I spoke up. But I really don't want to clog his insanely huge thread.
sascha.victoria
oozitron wrote:
How about a suitcase with hinges on one end. Open it up to reveal TWO of these sweethearts side by side This is fun! This is fun!

Drew


Or you could do it more like the original with the angle and have the brackets attach one upside down. That way when you take it apart you have 2 angled cabs. I would be into this. I hope that made sense.
raisinbag
That's basically what I'm thinking about. My issue that I'm trying to sort out is that the knobs will be in the way of each section, unless I recess both the thss and the euros in other half. Maybe thats no big deal? I'm gona make a prototype in the next few weeks.
oozitron
What is the dimensions of the reverb tank?

I like the idea of this being very shallow. Maybe the tank could be below the synth with a blind panel in front of it.

I like having about 4" at the bottom of my cabinets empty so a keyboard or drum machine can sit right in front of them and not block anything important.

(Like the original 2600 had!)

Drew
phillybuster
oozitron wrote:
What is the dimensions of the reverb tank?


I think thats for us to decided for ourselves. Zthee mentioned something about it being 16.75" long - maybe an Accutronics?!


cheers
zthee


Now the real function testing can begin.
Morley
Trampoline
zthee
I'll bring this to Norberg (http://www.norbergfestival.com/) end July. So drop by if you'd like to test it.
M-Circus
*faints with excitement*
Morley
zthee wrote:
I'll bring this to Norberg (http://www.norbergfestival.com/) end July. So drop by if you'd like to test it.



Damn, a good reason to replan a holiday!
Christopher Winkels
zthee wrote:


Now the real function testing can begin.


jpenca
hello, have a banana: It's peanut butter jelly time!
Paradigm X
woah

Bow to your new god, mortals

we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy

holy feck i want one so badly.

Rockin' Banana!
tIB
Love the ghetto astheatic.
m0rb1d
jpenca wrote:
hello, have a banana: It's peanut butter jelly time!

awesome first post!
this has been so exciting to watch this unfold. nanners
zthee
tIB wrote:
Love the ghetto astheatic.


Just following along the lines of traditions...
terrafractyl
wow Cool pics!!

and just adding to the 'Thanks for everything Zthee' brigade.

truly inspirational DIY
cleaninglady
I really appreciate the patience and thorough testing that has gone into this process zthee. Awesome job once again. SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
zthee
cyklopljud
Um, wow!!love
emdot_ambient
Oooooo yeah!
perplx
I'm in a happy place right now. Thanks, zthee!
moog55
is it september yet?
Thaknar
nanners nanners
as if we could wait until september wink I want it nooooww!!!
raisinbag
Nice! So is the reverb I'm hearing a tank in the case? Or after output. Sounds really slick!!!!!!!!!
cleaninglady
something wonderful
patchdub
zthee wrote:


amazing! sounds awesome! looks awesome!

i thought you were gonna break into floyd's obscured by clouds!
tIB
zthee wrote:
tIB wrote:
Love the ghetto astheatic.


Just following along the lines of traditions...


Yeah seen those; immediately thought how cool it would be to have a rat look synth.
filmersam
Holy guacamole
brandon daniel
zthee wrote:


YES.
beyourdog
zthee wrote:


Sounds like the real shit with a neater reverb, good Job Sir,

applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause applause
negativspace
Yeah, that sounds amazing. MY ASS IS BLEEDING

can'twaitcan'twaitcan'twaitcan'twaitcan'twaitcan'twaitcan'twait
Synthsense
Hi Zthee, your project looks really AWESOME, You are doing a brilliant job, thanks. I wanted to make You a couple of questions, please:

1- Are You using decals on the front panel art?
2- Have You any plans of making this project at some time in the near future er ....polyphonic? fap fap fap... zombie hihi

CHEERS!
zthee
The production run will be silkscreened. For the prototype it's just glued on paper.

No plans for making it polyphonic. But if you built more than 1 and somehow solved the voice handling it should be possible.
decaying.sine
It's nice to have a well rounded life and obviously that includes having hobbies. Projects like this send me far over the rainbow of happiness on the unicorn of anticipation. I look forward to building this, sharing build experiences with the community, and ultimately noodling for myself and with my girls. --so much so that I feel the urge to scream a loud scream of glee in my best girlish "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee."
Dego
True Brian, I should build one with my daughter as well. That makes three builds hihi
decaying.sine
Dego wrote:
True Brian, I should build one with my daughter as well. That makes three builds hihi


I got the idea from raisinbag! SlayerBadger!
dangorange
This is so full of win, sounds fantastic! It's motherfucking bacon yo
kbo
SlayerBadger! fat sound ! SlayerBadger!
Morley
Guinness ftw!
Morley
Guinness ftw! applause
mOBiTh
droooooooooooooooooooooooool
gobobog
nanners

Finally jumped on the waiting list for this... I can't wait!!!
diablojoy
wow 112 pages , 1112 replies in 86 days
should be some sort of record.
or i have too much time maybe
sept cant be soon enough anyway.
Luka
i think mike is playing with post per page settings to try fix forum speeds so that number will move around a bit
decaying.sine
gobobog wrote:
nanners

Finally jumped on the waiting list for this... I can't wait!!!


There is a list?

*edit. Oh, the list sign up on zthee's page. I signed up for that before. w00t
andrewF
Luka wrote:
i think mike is playing with post per page settings to try fix forum speeds so that number will move around a bit

yep it was about 65 pages this morning
i thought there must have been a massive donnybrook
diablojoy
ha didnt pick the jump, though i thought the pages seemed shorter
today. some other changes too maybe ? the topic reply notification email link took me straight to the login page, Its never done that before.
thenormanconquest
i'd straight up punch a donkey in the *#@ to get one of these.
ispot
It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! applause love
Paradigm X
some impressive first posts in this thread !
hihi
xonetacular
so in. love that there is no panel wiring. Dead Banana
roglok
diablojoy wrote:
ha didnt pick the jump, though i thought the pages seemed shorter
today. some other changes too maybe ? the topic reply notification email link took me straight to the login page, Its never done that before.


yeah, same here. weird...
Monobass
roglok wrote:
diablojoy wrote:
ha didnt pick the jump, though i thought the pages seemed shorter
today. some other changes too maybe ? the topic reply notification email link took me straight to the login page, Its never done that before.


yeah, same here. weird...


muffs wrote

Quote:
I'm working on a bunch of config stuff today to see if I can make things smoother.... please expect service quality to fluctuate for the next couple of hours as I try some different things out

sorry for the hassle and thanks for hanging in there everybody



Quote:
Yes I set the default page length to 10 posts instead of 20. less load on the server, and the threads now appear twice as long!
[
eef
Awesome! But I'd really rather have a 2500. Those Matrix switches were the best.

Where is that darn "hiding under the desk" emoticon when I need it?
sduck
thenormanconquest wrote:
i'd straight up punch a donkey in the *#@ to get one of these.


It'd be a lot easier to save your money and wait a month or 2. Donkeys everywhere will thank you.
seepaxton
this is a thing of pure beauty. is there anybody building cases?
(such a silly question)
rasseru
sounds great... one of my dream out of reach synths has now become something I can own (and build)


so much win in this thread


was there ever any estimates of final costs for panel, pcb & parts? (been busy and off the net a bit)
roglok
Quote:
was there ever any estimates of final costs for panel, pcb & parts? (been busy and off the net a bit)


all info here:
http://thehumancomparator.net/
rasseru
yes gotcha - i seemed to remember under $1000 without the case.




f**k the case It's motherfucking bacon yo
Rex Coil 7
rasseru wrote:
yes gotcha - i seemed to remember under $1000 without the case.




f**k the case It's motherfucking bacon yo
As do I. Something like $300+ for the PCB components (the "parts kit" from Mouser) and then whatever the $$$ is for the boards.

I seem to remember a figure of ~roughly~ $1,500 depending on how crazy one goes with the cab. I will most likely look into having it built into a flight-case type cab with a lid. I've also been kicking around the idea of using an external PSU.
alexdsteak
It happened to me to discuss this with some "unsuspectable" friends of mine
(meaning that they are into music but not passionate about analogue synths),
looks like everyone I spoke with (around 4/5 people, to give a number) seems
to be excited in owning a piece of history 76% the scale of the original smile

Do you think it could be worthwhile to spread the news around about this
magnificent piece of DIY? I guess it could drive down sensibly the pcb and
panel production costs... or not?

A.
Monobass
alexdsteak wrote:
It happened to me to discuss this with some "unsuspectable" friends of mine
(meaning that they are into music but not passionate about analogue synths),
looks like everyone I spoke with (around 4/5 people, to give a number) seems
to be excited in owning a piece of history 76% the scale of the original smile

Do you think it could be worthwhile to spread the news around about this?


I think what you already did is all that needs to be done by the sound of it.
xpando
at almost 85,000 views already i think word is spreading nicely
alexdsteak
Was just asking, you never know smile
I might fill in around 10/15x PCB+panel if the things keep on going like this..

A.

PS: I would have then to build half of the number above razz
P. Grinder
I must say, this is the most exciting project I've witnessed in a long time, the interest is high and the development, from the start, has been epic to say the least. Hope Zthee will be able to manage the demand. thumbs up

Already all set to place an order, just waiting for a green light to press that ''buy it now'' button. I've been holding back on some other gear to secure the funds for at least two kits.

Many thanks Zthee, this is pretty amazing.
zthee
P. Grinder wrote:
Hope Zthee will be able to manage the demand. thumbs up


The only thing I'm doing between now and September is trying to find and setup logistic solutions. It's boring as curse words, and I'd rather spend my time in Eagle doing new schematics. But I guess it's good to learn new stuff, plus, when I get it to work - It'll be hell of a lot easier for everyone.
alexdsteak
zthee wrote:

The only thing I'm doing between now and September is trying to find and setup logistic solutions. It's boring as curse words, and I'd rather spend my time in Eagle doing new schematics. But I guess it's good to learn new stuff, plus, when I get it to work - It'll be hell of a lot easier for everyone.


Learning new thing is always good, even if at the end it is not something
extremely interesting - but at least it gives you insight on how the world
spins smile

A.

PS: if I can be of any help with logistics (not that I know anything about it,
but still), just shout smile
Christopher Winkels
Two and a half days without an update to this thread? My TTSH info addiction is in dire need of a fix.
radar24
wow this project is so fantastic!
can't wait to see the final product!
beyourdog
radar24 wrote:
wow this project is so fantastic!
can't wait to see the final product!


applause

I think this statement fills already 27 pages of this thread hihi hihi

No offence, oly teasing Guinness ftw!
accountboy
Can't wait to see the Swedish builders list!

help
terjewinther
I think I have read all pages on this forum, as well as all info on thehumancomparator. I do understand which version of the 2600 the clone is in general, but as several web sites tells, the 2600 had several sub-versions and upgrades, and there are modern upgrades like the audio path upgrades etc.
I understand that TTSH will be a modern, updated version, but to what extent is the original errors un-done in this version?
CV_Wonder
This thing would be glorious flat packed with a keyboard in suitcase form like the Moog Sonic 6!

Does anyone have an idea about an easy keyboard solution/kit?

Beginning briefcase search.


xoxo
-E
snoop
CV_Wonder wrote:
This thing would be glorious flat packed with a keyboard in suitcase form like the Moog Sonic 6!

Does anyone have an idea about an easy keyboard solution/kit?

Beginning briefcase search.


xoxo
-E


Very interested in this myself!
heapish
This has come on loads since I last looked! Gunna have to have one!
beyourdog
terjewinther wrote:
I think I have read all pages on this forum, as well as all info on thehumancomparator. I do understand which version of the 2600 the clone is in general, but as several web sites tells, the 2600 had several sub-versions and upgrades, and there are modern upgrades like the audio path upgrades etc.
I understand that TTSH will be a modern, updated version, but to what extent is the original errors un-done in this version?


The audio path upgrades consist into replacing the Opamps on the different sections of the synth. I would presume zthee is using modern easy to source parts and that his clone will just use modern opamps, which seems quite obvious when you listen to the demos, it sounds quite clear and sharp, especially the reverb which seems less muddy than the original (maybe i’m imagining things too, I sometimes hear voices as well...). So no need for the path audio upgrade i imagine with this clone...I did read as well that the first versions had audio quality opamps (didn’t Alan Pearlman designed Opamps?) but where prone to failure. Then they replaced the opamps on the following versions with less audio quality but more reliable components.

The ARP2600 is a semi modular, therefore, looking at the back of the synth, the VCO, filter, VCA, noise, S/H (maybe other functions) are external square PCB or epoxy boxes.
So different versions, but mainly due to the Opamps and to the submodules which differs, especially for the VCO and Filter modules.
For exemple, I think the first versions of the VCO were the 4011, then the 4017, 4027, 4027-1. For the filter, there was the 4012 and 4072. The difference between them, I have no clue, soundwise, I do not know.

I think this version contains the 4027-1 VCO and 4012 VCF which is for the filter the early and grey face version, stable, working well, sound great, I imagine as well that the opamp would be more modern than on the originals so the signal path would be neater and no update would be required.
That is my understanding, I’m probably not right on many things...

Therefore, we have a great Community of DIYer....
I hope some people will come round with eventual design or solutions to make the Filters interchangeable and eventually propose sub modules for the clone, like for instance being able to switch from an ARP submodule to a Moog submodule or an Oberheim submodule filter. A bit like what Stuido electronics is doing with his SE1X and other synths...
That is 1 thing that could have been great with the ARP synths due to their modular nature is to have be able to have different filters / interchangeable filters. I do not say that it should be done by zhtee, all respect to the man to be able to provide us this great clone in this exact state, that is perfect. I just say that I hope people would come with the idea of proposing submodules for the clone. Would be great to switch from a filter character to another like switching to a VCS3 kind of filter, but keeping the 2600 wonderful ergonomy...(although the 2600 filter is already a great trippy machine by itself...)
beyourdog
snoop wrote:
CV_Wonder wrote:
This thing would be glorious flat packed with a keyboard in suitcase form like the Moog Sonic 6!

Does anyone have an idea about an easy keyboard solution/kit?

Beginning briefcase search.


xoxo
-E


Very interested in this myself!


Doesn't Doepfer proposes a Keytar keyboard and a midi / cv interface?
P. Grinder
I'm looking into reverb tanks that would be suitable for the TTSH. Came across this one and I'm wondering if it would be compliant with its driver. Would this be a good option?

http://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/P-RK-9AB3C1B


Thank you for your input. I just didn't find any topics going in depth on this one and some suggestions would be welcomed.
zthee
beyourdog wrote:
I would presume zthee is using modern easy to source parts and that his clone will just use modern opamps, which seems quite obvious when you listen to the demos..


I'm actually using the LM301 which is the OP used in the original. Difference in sound could be because I'm using better spec:ed caps + resistors. Or 40 years of wear and tear. Hard to tell.
lobobelga
LM301 should do the work fine !