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Max/MSP externals for the ES-4, ES-5 & ESX-4CV
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Expert Sleepers  
Author Max/MSP externals for the ES-4, ES-5 & ESX-4CV
os
Update 2: added videos

------------------------

Update: ES-5 and ESX-4CV externals now available from the site.

Demo videos to follow.

------------------------

Before I make a big splash with this, I thought I'd post it here for some sanity checking by people who have been using Max longer than I have (i.e. more than 2 days).

I've also attached a little test patcher, which hooks up a basic MIDI/CV converter, and an LFO.

All feedback welcome!





AsceticUnderground
Thats great! works a treat for me. Does the mxo have something in it to limit the input max to 255, will it damage anything to exceed that?
os
Good news!

It's internally limited, but it wouldn't hurt anything even if it weren't.
AsceticUnderground
thats good to know grin

this is exactly the solution to what i was asking you about yesterday and that mxo is such a massive help to me, thank you very much
os
ES-5 and ESX-4CV now supported - see first post.
Leoespejo
YYYEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS

At last thank you OS you are the MAN.

nanners nanners nanners Dead Banana It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! MY ASS IS BLEEDING we're not worthy we're not worthy SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! Guinness ftw! It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo

Tomorrow i'll make an extensive test
os
Added videos to the original post.
roadstersuntan
This alone has persuaded me to get an ES-4, awesome.

Time to read the Max LFO tutorials on C74 again...
Dirty_Bill
Are there plans to add ES-3/6 support eventually as well? I finally ditechd my AC-coupled interface and took the ES-3/6 plunge, and the Max Externals are exciting...
sandyb
Dirty_Bill wrote:
Are there plans to add ES-3/6 support eventually as well? I finally ditechd my AC-coupled interface and took the ES-3/6 plunge, and the Max Externals are exciting...


i'm not sure why you would need max externals for the es3/es6. they can be accessed easily and directly through the dac and adc objects already.
os
Indeed, no externals required for ES-3, ES-6 or the ES-7.
Dirty_Bill
[quote="sandyb"]
Dirty_Bill wrote:

i'm not sure why you would need max externals for the es3/es6. they can be accessed easily and directly through the dac and adc objects already.


Just my lack of understanding of Max. Thanks for the clarification.
rydan
Even though I already have a SilentWay license, this is GREAT news!!!! =)
Guygz
Hi, we can output sound from max to modules with the ES-3. I've heard you can't do that with the ES-4 cause of the conversion Stereo/5canals, it would be annoying... but is it true ?
os
You can output audio via the ES-4 external, though it would of course be 8 bit audio.
subultresk
os wrote:
Update 2: added videos

------------------------

Before I make a big splash with this, I thought I'd post it here for some sanity checking by people who have been using Max longer than I have (i.e. more than 2 days).


Hey Os!
Hey, all you Maxist-Wigglers!

I'm a bit late, Os, but i want to to thank you for those object's. A w e s o m e !!!

I am very surprised that there are so few reactions/discussions about this objects.
It might be, because people don't get it to work completely (gates) and prefer the use of the vst~ solution instead.

So - here are my 2c for sanity:

while we can see in the videos, that the pitches (0-10V or ch1 and 2 of the ES-4) do like integers between 0 and 255 and the "LFO" (-5,3V to 5,3V or ESX-4CV) are looking for integers from -2048 to 2047, the binary gate-control (Gate-Expander) is quite a challenge for the most of us. The video-demonstration is very funny, but i've never used gates like that (i.e. the "8-Gates LFO" in the video). Well done Max-Os! ;-)

Since the conversion from binary to 8 physical gates needs some bit-shifting i thought i could post a solution to deal with that beautiful problem - for most of us, binaries could represent some kind of "unusual handling".
(Because it's easy to copy the programming from the picture it might be more communicatively to post it as a pic only...)
The buttons are representing the 8 gates and can be switched on and off individually without changing anything else.


what i also like:
the pitch (256) is divided "normally" by 4 (half-tones) which means that quarter-tones are easily found (*2) and there is still much more tuning possible with other- or even with variable factors! That is so cool!
Big Fun!



I hope i took a chance to do something useful - it would be a pleasure.

Os - you're my man!

MW is super-great!

w00t
os
Thanks for posting that!
subultresk
It feels so much better than using VST. Now we can start to program some nice Max/MSP-ES-patches like Quadrature-LFO or even some crazier stuff.

Did you solve the saw-problem (in the video)? It has a different output than the cycle...

There is is a nice M4L patch that is called "Simple LFO". It is using buffers and offers several waveforms - all from 0. to 1. - that can be scaled once to -2048 to 2047. Since it is linked to a transport-object it's nice do do rhythmically exact LFO modulations with several Simple LFO "modules" connected to the same transport-object...



The LFO patch used in LFO Tutorial 5 by Gregory Taylor is GREAT!
The LFO Tutorial
subultresk
... some more questions about the max-objects and the resolution (with ES-4 and expanders).

Since pitch is defined in 8bit (0-255) on the first two channels (0-10V) of es4encoder~ and the esx4cvencoder~ looks for -2048 - 2047 (12bit):
do i get 4x 0-10V in a higher (12bit) resolution if i connect the ESX-4CV expander on the first header and the jumper is set to 0-12V?

Or is it 8 bit anyway and the 12bit are scaled down to 8bit internally (because of the DAC)?

Does esx4cvencoder~ want 4x 0-255 if the jumper is set to 0-12V?
____________

... still speechless that i can't find any discussion about those objects! Are all ES-users already addicted to the vst-PlugIns?
I've just finished a little max-help-patch, but haven't tried it yet (i'll do it today)...

cheers
os
You get ±5.333V from the ESX-4CV. There are no jumpers that affect its operation.

The ESX-4CV is always 12 bit.
subultresk
os wrote:
You get ±5.333V from the ESX-4CV. There are no jumpers that affect its operation.

The ESX-4CV is always 12 bit.


Thanks Os - you are extremely fast! As always!

Ok - i mixed it up - sorry...

Again:

1.) ES-4 Channels 1-2: 0-5.3V (when trimmed for 1V/octave response) - controlled via es4encoder~ is an 8bit resolution (256 steps). - ?

2.) ESX-4CV on the first or second header controlled via esx4cvencoder~ into es4encoder~ gives 4x 0-5.3V in a 12bit resolution (4096 steps)?

If 2x yes - is there any disadvantage when an expander is added to the channel?
- because it seems to be just more channels and a better resolution! (and it's still a secret for me!?) - 4096 would be great for tunings!

hmmm.....

I use expanders on headers 3 to 5 now (2x CV, 1x GT).
There is already 20TE reserved space in my instrument for more ES-modules
- if 2xYes i'll immediately add another 8TE!

zombie

Also i will test it with my 4CV on ES-4 ch1 and add that to the maxhelp-patch (i'll send or post it after the test).

I really love your modules! They are helping me a lot! Thanks so much!
Os for Nobule-Price!
____________

Have you ever checked the BEAP-project by Stretta? It's brilliant! Very straight forward. A real brain-booster on this topic!
os
1) Yes.

2) Yes though you mean ±5.333V not 0-5.333V.

The downside is update rate. The ES-4's outputs update at the audio sample rate (e.g. 48kHz). The ESX-4CV's update at an eighth of that rate (e.g. 6kHz).
subultresk
os wrote:
1) Yes.

2) Yes though you mean ±5.333V not 0-5.333V.

The downside is update rate. The ES-4's outputs update at the audio sample rate (e.g. 48kHz). The ESX-4CV's update at an eighth of that rate (e.g. 6kHz).


ah - i remember! Ok - so my old evaluation was correct - excuse me please, i forgot that 6kHz-thing. Since i am working with 96kHz sample rate it will be fortunately still 12 kHz....

Ok -
ES-4 Output voltages
Channels 1-2: 0-5.3V (when trimmed for 1V/octave response) - ok - this might be the 5 octaves and 4 halftones range (=64 halftones)....
Does it mean i can't do that trimming with a ESX-4CV? (Jumper?) So i would have to cut the negative part and use 0-2047 to get 0-5,3V?
(it would be still 8 times more than 256 and - as i estimate - still faster than MIDI - even in 6kHz...)


Channels 3-5: 0-10V or ±5V (jumper selectable per channel)
Can i send 4x 0-10V on this channels (with jumper and ESX-4CV and 12bit/4096 resolution)? Or is ESX-4CV always 4x ±5.333V on any channel (and the jumper only works without ESX-4CV)?

Sorry for asking so much - i should have done that trials before screwing the modules into the system, but...

who has got that time when some long expected modules arrive....?

love

Ah - one more question:
yesterday i tried to use the es-max-objects on a 2009 MacBookPro, OsX10.68 (SL), Max 6.1.3 and it didn't worked because of a missing c++ library. Do those objects need OsX10.8 (ML)? On my fresh 2012 MacMini everything just worked fine...
os
Quote:
Does it mean i can't do that trimming with a ESX-4CV? (Jumper?) So i would have to cut the negative part and use 0-2047 to get 0-5,3V?

Why would you want to not use the negative voltages?

Quote:
Can i send 4x 0-10V on this channels (with jumper and ESX-4CV and 12bit/4096 resolution)? Or is ESX-4CV always 4x ±5.333V on any channel (and the jumper only works without ESX-4CV)?


As I mentioned:
os wrote:
You get ±5.333V from the ESX-4CV. There are no jumpers that affect its operation.


No idea what's going on with your missing library. What was the error exactly?
subultresk
os wrote:

Why would you want to not use the negative voltages?


I am thinking of 0-5.3 for pitches and higher resolution for special tunings. ;-)

os wrote:
You get ±5.333V from the ESX-4CV. There are no jumpers that affect its operation.


Ok - i understand!

os wrote:
No idea what's going on with your missing library. What was the error exactly?


... the screenshot...

os
Quote:
I am thinking of 0-5.3 for pitches and higher resolution for special tunings

But why not use the full -5.3V to +5.3V range?
subultresk
os wrote:
Quote:
I am thinking of 0-5.3 for pitches and higher resolution for special tunings

But why not use the full -5.3V to +5.3V range?


Aaaahhh! Your questions are always very smart!
I walked into the zero-trap-land between digital and analog! ;-)

A while ago i made some micro-tuning tables for pitch and pitch bend (14bit/LSB-MSB) - some tunings might be possible with pitch only if i have a 12bit resolution.

Thanks a lot! I got it. That's cool! A Base. Damn! ... full 12bit!
I've used the 4CVs mostly as LFO's and for FM (+/-).... and did far too much programming in the last time...

___________________


Since you are playing live a lot - and the live-setup is a true obsession of mine woah - i've just entered the post-Laptop-age!
It feels great: very quick, easy, small, compact, lightweight and no "open" cables or loud ventilation (my almost dead 17'Macbook).
Now a MacMini does the job quietly inside the case. "On the road" i use it with a USB-monitor only. The iPad, keyboard and 4 pedals are the computer-controllers (and a Leap-controller) - superb! A great setup - also with ES-modules (besides AES)!
On the SKB-rear is a Mamba-patchbay. Only the USB-monitor needs a (USB-) cable...
Since it's a typical ES-setup i post two pics here.... The hybrid-instruments deserve their own topic - soon!





... enough free space for a second ES-4-ensemble!
os
Very cool!
subultresk
Yeah - full range! Yesterday i've played the pitches with a ESX-4CV and it gives a much wider range than 256/4. Played the keyboard as fast as i can (@ 44.1) and it still felt better than pure MIDI. Funny, because it's a MIDI-Keyboard. It seems to be good to work with hot data (MSP/audio-rate) as soon as possible (after the keys) - but maybe it's just my impression... ;-)

_____________

The tuning isn't too perfect with ±5,3V (ESX-4CV): tuned from the middle key there is a light detuning in the upper and lower regions. Could this be because of the ±0,3V? Are those "extra" ±0,3V to overdrive some parameters for warmth/distortion? I've seen that quite often in Eurorack now... (?)

I still don't get that bipolar/unipolar (or ±5V/0-10V) thing... Since some CV-In want 0-10V - will i need a "Full Wave Rectifier" (like Pittsburgh CV-Bender or ADDAC208) to convert the voltage? eek!

Cheers
os
Quote:
tuned from the middle key there is a light detuning in the upper and lower regions

How confident are you that your oscillator tracks perfectly over the 10 octave range?
subultresk
os wrote:
Quote:
tuned from the middle key there is a light detuning in the upper and lower regions

How confident are you that your oscillator tracks perfectly over the 10 octave range?


Yes, of course - i don't know. I tried it with DixieII and Rubicon (they are my best tracking oscillators) and i compared it (ESX-4CV) to the ES-4 0-10V tuning. It's not really wild, but... I will measure the -5/+5V Values and try it "a bit" (...can't be too much steps of the 12bit if it should even work more precisely).

I am just checking my modules. It seems there are only one or two that ask for 0-10V (Quantizer and Random-Generator)...
subultresk
what do you think?

Such nice Max/MSP-objects deserve a help-patch! (even if i did it) help

If you put the es4encoder~.maxhelp into your msp-help folder, it will open automatically when the es4encoder~ object is alt-clicked.

Download es4encoder~.maxhelp



thumbs up

w00t
os
SlayerBadger!

So glad I have my users to do my job for me smile
subultresk
os wrote:
SlayerBadger!

So glad I have my users to do my job for me smile



At least a way to show my appreciation (besides buying your great modules)!

thumbs up

(can't believe that there are still only 2 downloads of the es4encoder~.mxo)

seriously, i just don't get it

_________________
CTRL
Hell yeah - this rules, good work!

zombie zombie zombie
mckenic
Thank you, thank you, thank you OS & Subultresk!!!
A Dingleberry Monstrosity
might be a dumb question, but will that work in windows? hyper
theres no link for a windows based max external on expert sleepers site, yet....
subultresk
A Dingleberry Monstrosity wrote:
might be a dumb question, but will that work in windows? hyper
theres no link for a windows based max external on expert sleepers site, yet....


I am afraid there is no windows based max external yet.
You will need those externals to run the help-patch.

(there are only dumb answers, no dumb questions...)

meh
subultresk
A Dingleberry Monstrosity wrote:
might be a dumb question, but will that work in windows? hyper
theres no link for a windows based max external on expert sleepers site, yet....


I am afraid there is no windows based max external yet.
You will need those externals to run the help-patch.

(there are only dumb answers, no dumb questions...)

meh
subultresk
Yeah mckenic and CTRL - let's thank OS for this beautiful tools! Wow, 3 people - that feels already crowded!

Since my maxhelp-patch ignores audio i made another example with both possibilities.
Maybe it is also a bit clearer.



1. Example

Audio rate is faster and might be the way to "beat" the 6-12kHz of the ES-4… Since Audio rate is updating all the time nothing needs to be triggered. Keep in mind that 255 is a very high value in the Audio-world. I don't wanna try what happens, if this value goes to a dac~.
AFAIK 1.0 is 0Vu in Audio and 5.0 should be 5V if used as CV (if the interface is able to produce that much). Since i've never tried that kind of stuff i can't say anything about that. The idea of working with hot data as CV is very interesting and pretty straight forward! Stretta made a beautiful collection called BEAP. Check that out! Inspiring, beautiful and most of it easy to understand!

Introduction: http://cycling74.com/wiki/index.php?title=BEAP_Analog_Model_Curriculum _Outline

Download: https://github.com/stretta/BEAP/wiki/BEAP-Modular---Overview-and-Insta ll


2. Example

In Numbers this is what ESX-8GT is asking for. I made this to show the similarity to the Audio-version. Since Numbers have to been triggered, the pak object sends a new list to zl.sum every time a toggle has been changed. zlsum sums the list values. Quite boring - almost Prussian - might also need more energy than necessary.


3. Example

Let's get philosophical, ecological and artistic. The programming of this example could be a little harder for our brains, but computational it might be the cheapest way (since accumulation and bit-shifting are cheaper than multiplication and summing). It's a little logic story which i can enjoy today like i enjoyed music-performances in recent times. There are quite a few little things happening - some lissajous - action - a little dance that results in the correct numbers. Fun! Do you recognize the beauty?

Max is great!

w00t
mckenic
we're not worthy

I moved set-ups and haven't got my Expert Sleepers modules up and running again yet... This thread has inspired me to get back on the horse this weekend!

thumbs up
subultresk
mckenic wrote:
we're not worthy

This thread has inspired me to get back on the horse this weekend!

thumbs up


What do you think about a new thread about a hybrid Max/MSP-ES-Modular?

There are so many common points - like
- what should or can be controlled (speed and resolution of the ES-hardware etc.)
- Trigger and Gates (i.e. how to produce 8V triggers/gate to trigger modules)
- Rectification (get only positive voltages)
- Interface (controllers, iPad, Touch-OSC, Lemur MIRA, pedals)
- Max/MSP tool-kit for ES-modules
- Max/MSP Seq, LFO, Random-Generators/Shift-Registers
- Max/MSP Granulator/Sampler/FFT/VST controlled via CV
- MIRA Multitouch - Buchla-esque iPad Controller
- software with audio-rates - like Stretta shows us with BEAP - any benefits with ES-modules?
- instrument design (creating "one" portable and "easy to use" instrument)
- much more

Champagne
sandyb
subultresk wrote:

What do you think about a new thread about a hybrid Max/MSP-ES-Modular?

There are so many common points - like
- what should or can be controlled (speed and resolution of the ES-hardware etc.)
- Trigger and Gates (i.e. how to produce 8V triggers/gate to trigger modules)
- Rectification (get only positive voltages)
- Interface (controllers, iPad, Touch-OSC, Lemur MIRA, pedals)
- Max/MSP tool-kit for ES-modules
- Max/MSP Seq, LFO, Random-Generators/Shift-Registers
- Max/MSP Granulator/Sampler/FFT/VST controlled via CV
- MIRA Multitouch - Buchla-esque iPad Controller
- software with audio-rates - like Stretta shows us with BEAP - any benefits with ES-modules?
- instrument design (creating "one" portable and "easy to use" instrument)
- much more

Champagne


i think that would be interesting. i haven't really posted in this thread because i use an es3/6/7 setup so don't need the externals.
mckenic
thumbs up

My knowledge levels wouldn't be up there enough for me to contribute but I would be a willing tester hihi
subultresk
sandyb wrote:
subultresk wrote:

What do you think about a new thread about a hybrid Max/MSP-ES-Modular?

Champagne


i think that would be interesting. i haven't really posted in this thread because i use an es3/6/7 setup so don't need the externals.


Great! Nice to meet you again (now with Adat interface grin )!

Since i use a MH-Labs LIO-8 as my "mainly line"-audio-interface, i have to work with AES-EBU. On the AES-Bus i need one stereo-ch-Send and two stereo-ch-Return for my Quantec room simulator - i don't want to miss the Quantec in my small setup. This means i've got 6ch Out and 4ch In for CV on the digital Bus.

I've already tried many ways to establish a smooth connection between cpu and modular and it was much more difficult than i had thought before. Especially since i am working with some so called "high-end" stuff makes it even more complicated - i.e. audio I/O (besides AES): how to get happy if you listen to a Doepfer-amp through high-end converters...

Then i used two interfaces (Mac aggregate device) with a Lightbridge ADAT interface and ES-3 (i hope you're still happy with it). The aggregate device produces too much latency and the whole system felt horrible - like just before the spinning beachball of death (mac) appears. I don't like that.

Because of the decision to use only one interface i tried a quite expensive solution with a RME AES-to-Adat Box. I had clock-problems that resulted in no operation/no sound. The first Input of the RME is waiting for something that didn't happen. It seemed to be a communication problem between the RMR Steadyclock and MH-clock (which is fantastic). I sent back the RME-box.

Since i can't effort another cpu/interface in acceptable quality and with Adat, i went to ES-4 and Thomas Funk's converter cables. This was the point things got better.

I'm not used to work with vst~ (and i try to avoid it). Normally i create my patches in Max. Unhappily the ES-4Max-externals didn't work on my SL-Macbook. 4 weeks ago i bought a Mac Mini and now it looks like i finally can start using the modules without fighting with the system.

Ok - let's start that thread. Where should i post it??
It's ES and non-ES, mostly Max (maybe), but not software....

Modular General Discussions?
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4

Or should we stay in the ES-lounge?
sandyb
the es3 is doing fine. i scared myself a bit soldering on the expander cable for the es6 but it's all working well. picked up a cheap mk1 motu traveler for the adat ports.

for me, using max/msp with my modular is very much linked into the ES hardware. i certainly couldn't be bothered making up special cables and only using certain dc coupled hardware.

so i think this subforum is a good place for such a thread.
subultresk
sandyb wrote:

for me, using max/msp with my modular is very much linked into the ES hardware. i certainly couldn't be bothered making up special cables and only using certain dc coupled hardware.

so i think this subforum is a good place for such a thread.


OK. I'll prepare something...
subultresk
Ok - the new thread is here:
Let's talk about a Max/MSP/ES/Modular-Hybrid
waah
hpsounds
subultresk wrote:
os wrote:
No idea what's going on with your missing library. What was the error exactly?


... the screenshot...



I'm also on OS X 10.6.8 and having exactly the same problem in Max 6.1.3.

help help help

H.
subultresk
hpsounds wrote:
I'm also on OS X 10.6.8 and having exactly the same problem in Max 6.1.3.

help help help

H.


Not the best news to start the day, but i haven't found any way to run the externals under 10.6.8. - if you search Google you'll get many problem-stories… It doesn't seem to work with OsX 10.6.8 or below…

It's sad to see the new directions of Apple - the "think different" times are definitely over. OsX 10.8 is again a hard cut - a lot of software doesn't work anymore and the system feels more and more like Windows. So many little tricks you have to know… the whole App-store-thing isn't exactly my taste as well… (as the Demo-less iTunes software is).

I had to change since my Computer died and i am really happy that most things work again for me finally - but i had to leave behind Logic8 and Bias-Peak - now using Reaper and thinking about buying Logic X.

Max is running very smooth - i would say "better" - that's my main point, but many things in the workflow needed to be changed…

At least the best thing for me was to run the Expert Sleepers Max-objects!
hpsounds
subultresk wrote:
Not the best news to start the day, but i haven't found any way to run the externals under 10.6.8. - if you search Google you'll get many problem-stories… It doesn't seem to work with OsX 10.6.8 or below…


confused Damned ! very frustrating d'oh!
subultresk
Since this news should be in this place i'l re-post Os message here:

os wrote:
I've updated the ES-4, ES-5 and ESX-4CV externals for 10.6:

http://expert-sleepers.co.uk/downloads.html



we're not worthy
broon_777
Hi os

Wondered if it was possible to use the current MAX externals in Pure Data?

Or if not are there any plans to convert them?

Not that Silent Way isn't awesome in it's own right LOL - I just have a few Pd patches which would work beautifully with my new ESX-8CVs and the modular....

Cheers
os
I confess I don't know the first thing about Pd. I'll read up and see what can be done.
broon_777
Thanks os - I very much appreciate you having a look at this,

They are supposed to share a very similar underlying architecture having both been programmed by Miller Puckette. Not sure what differences exist between Pd and MAX 6 now but AFAIK there have been a good few externals ported across from previous versions of MAX...so fingers crossed on this!!!

Would be amazing to be able to use an ES-4 & expanders direct in Pd - esp. given the fact that Pd is open source (and free!) - might really open doors for the modular with presets paradigm I reckon...

Cheers
thermionicjunky
os wrote:
I confess I don't know the first thing about Pd. I'll read up and see what can be done.


Please do. Pd can run on a Raspberry Pi, which can be connected to a S/PDIF interface. That would be an amazing and very portable computer module.

I've been considering expanding my ES-3/ES-6 with the ES-40. This would clinch it.
os
Interesting. I'd have to open source the externals for that though, right? Not out of the question.
SamUK
+1 for open sourcing.

I've been thinking about expanding my ES-3, but I'd only want to do it if I could use the extra outputs outside of my DAW too. I had figured that it would be easy enough to reverse engineer if I had to, 8 bits per channel, some sort of shift register for the 4CV and 8CV, but it would be great if there was a reference implementation out in the open.
robotfunk
if you build your plugin around flext it should be easy peasy to make it work on both pd and max/msp

http://puredata.info/Members/thomas/flext
os
I read the pd docs earlier. Should be trivial to rebuild the Max externals for pd.
broon_777
Fantastic news!! - thanks os
sushiluv
hi,

my es40 and es 8cv should arrive next week, very looking forward to it.

are there any tutorials on how a max midisequencer could be used with the max externals? i´d like to modify a max midisequencer that much, that i can use it wth the es, particualry there are threet hings i want to use with the es8cv, velocity, pitch and aux ( a midi cc).

amy help apprechiated, thanks a lot.
os
I have pd externals ready to go. If anyone would like to help me test them please let me know.
loopt
os wrote:
I have pd externals ready to go. If anyone would like to help me test them please let me know.

Wow.
Would love to test this with my Raspberry Pi and a Wolfson audio card.

That has to wait, though. Module budget is zero for the foreseeable future.
mwn
Great news! I'll finally pick up an ES-5 now, I'll be happy to test it when it arrives.
mwn
Will there be PD externals for the ESX-8GT and ESX-8CV as well?
os
There is one for the 8CV. The 8GT doesn't have its own external - that's handled by the ES-4 or ES-5 external.
mwn
Perfect. I placed my order for an ES-5 & ESX-8CV so I can hopefully test out the externals with PD in a few days.
hamildad
Just to check, Are there any issues with max7 & the externals?

better to be sure before buying..

Also anyone think of a Expert sleepers BEAP module?

I know you can use externals in BEAp and vice versa, but as BEAP is specifically designed to use 1v/Oct. Then a beap module should make sending out to a modular via a ES module a transparent process.
os
I've not tried Max 7. If there are any issues, I'm sure they'll be easily fixed.
subultresk
hamildad wrote:
Just to check, Are there any issues with max7 & the externals?


No problems. But there are problems with MIRA and Max7 (MIRA shows floating numbers boxes as integer number boxes). Also M4L is still Max6 - therefore Ableton Live is still Max6.

hamildad wrote:

Also anyone think of a Expert sleepers BEAP module?

I know you can use externals in BEAp and vice versa, but as BEAP is specifically designed to use 1v/Oct. Then a beap module should make sending out to a modular via a ES module a transparent process.


Beap is 0 to 5V. Just do a workaround.

hmmm.....

Hi OS - i hope you are well! Great new modules - i am waiting for two Disting modules!

w00t
subultresk
I can't post everything together for some reason?! (Sorry, you have been blocked)???

Beap is 0 to 5V. Just do a workaround. Most of my things are 0 to 1 (works best with all those different resolutions). Scale it to 0 2047 (0 to 5V) or -2048 2047 (-5V to 5V) - if i remember correctly it was 5,33V.
cheapmachines
I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head around using the ES-4/8GT expander combo to send MIDI info.

Can someone do a very simple patch showing how to send MIDI note on/off info from the 8GT to an external synth?

Thanks for any help.
subultresk
cheapmachines wrote:

Can someone do a very simple patch showing how to send MIDI note on/off info from the 8GT to an external synth?

Thanks for any help.


You will find it if you go back one page. It's in the help-file (p esx-8gt).

... or here:
Download es4encoder~.maxhelp

The clue for using the gates individually is bit-shifting.


w00t
cheapmachines
subultresk wrote:
The clue for using the gates individually is bit-shifting.


Yeah, it's this I'm struggling with (although I'm sure it's obvious from the help file...)

What I'm trying to do is to send a specific note on/off signal from a Max patch. So, for example, if I want to use socket 8 on the 8GT as MIDI output, that would be 128... But how do I combine the note on/off info AND have it specify 128 so the 8GT understands where I'm sending it?
subultresk
cheapmachines wrote:
subultresk wrote:
The clue for using the gates individually is bit-shifting.


Yeah, it's this I'm struggling with (although I'm sure it's obvious from the help file...)

What I'm trying to do is to send a specific note on/off signal from a Max patch. So, for example, if I want to use socket 8 on the 8GT as MIDI output, that would be 128... But how do I combine the note on/off info AND have it specify 128 so the 8GT understands where I'm sending it?


on the previous page (2) you will find everything - the ES-expander likes to receive a number between 0 and 255 (8bit). Every count is for a combination of all 8 gates. Therefore you have to do the bit-shifting.

This are 3 ways to do it easily (see picture).


A very nice object is the "bitlist" by jasch - it works in both directions.
http://www.jasch.ch/dl/default.htm

eek!
cheapmachines
Thanks for all this but I'm still clearly missing something in the basic operation of the ES4 for MIDI.

I was hoping to use the DJ-1000 MIDI/3.5mm Jack out of one of the 8GT sockets to trigger an external synth via its MIDI in.

http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/accessories.html

So am I right therefore in assuming that if I send a note value in Max and scale it to 128 so it reaches socket 8 on the 8GT that I'll be in business?

I get the principle of bit shifting but how does the DJ-1000 "see" values that are across more than one output (beyond 128 in value)?
subultresk
i don't know those adaptors.
jwyn101
subultresk wrote:
what do you think?

Such nice Max/MSP-objects deserve a help-patch! (even if i did it) help

If you put the es4encoder~.maxhelp into your msp-help folder, it will open automatically when the es4encoder~ object is alt-clicked.

Download es4encoder~.maxhelp



thumbs up

w00t



This is a great help patch!

Can I just confirm some details that I'm struggling to check?

Are all the ouputs of the ES-4 8bit?
and are the input values to the es4 encoder max external in the 0 to 255 range. The help patch suggests that the input ranges of the of connections 3-5 are 12 bit -2048 to 2047

Thanks
subultresk
Thanks for the accolade, jwyn101! I have to admit that i don't remember exactly the tech specs of the ES-4 module - you might still find them on the expert sleepers website.

I've always used ES-4 out 1+2 (8bit) for 2x 8 gates (since they want 8bit = 256 on/off variations for 8 gates). If you are using a keyboard it would be enough too.
Output 3-5 are 12bit (-2048 to 2047), also with cv-expansion.

For the gates (expansion) there is also a nice object in this collection:
http://www.jasch.ch/dl/
Look for "bitlist". It's bi-directional and recognizes decimal or binary input. Very nice.

Yes - the Input is 12bit as well: -2048 to 2047. The es-objects like data or audio values (e.g. with sig~).

If you are still generally thinking about how to use the modules and Max together i strongly recommend a closer look to the BEAP project. You'll find many "modules" that you'll like to work with. You can easily modify the patches. Or export patches as .amxd and use them in Ableton Live.

The I/O values need to be changed or scaled from -5./5. to -2048/2047 or 0/2047 since BEAP is a virtual -5/5V thing. (Don't send such high values to any other d/a) zombie



Download here:
https://github.com/stretta/BEAP/
OneLoneKnight
Hi,

I am new here and before I can post a new topic I have to quote 2 times... Perhaps someone can help me here.

I have added days ago the ES-3, ...5, ...6, ...7 modules to my Modular Synth and all works perfect. Btw I run the modules with my RME FF400 interface.

Now my question, can someone help me for calculating Decibel to Volt in MaxMSP. Or is it such simple and the ES-5 send max. 10V on an an maximum levelmeter~/gain~ object value 127 or 158(clipped) and only sending the half levelmeter~/gain~ value 63 or 79 is than 5V.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers
Simon
OneLoneKnight
OneLoneKnight wrote:
... my question, can someone help me for calculating Decibel to Volt


I think here I find the answers... http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm

Cheers
Simon
rotexo
HI all,
Sorry if I'm trying to revive a dead thread. I got a used es-4 and tried to build the es4encoder predate external found here (https://github.com/expertsleepersltd/externals/tree/master/pd/es4enco der%7E) for macOS using the instructions found here (https://puredata.info/docs/developer/PdExternalsInXcode). The build seemed to go fine, and I put the es4encoder.pd_darwin file in all of the folders for externals. I also tried adding startup flags to direct puredata to load the external, but I'm having no luck using it. Has anyone else used this external successfully?
drmarble
subultresk wrote:

Such nice Max/MSP-objects deserve a help-patch! (even if i did it) help

If you put the es4encoder~.maxhelp into your msp-help folder, it will open automatically when the es4encoder~ object is alt-clicked.

Download es4encoder~.maxhelp


This server has unfortunately disappeared... does anyone have a copy of the help patch that they could share here on the forum?

Also, I'm wondering how these Max objects work with a Disting module in ES-1 emulation mode, since that's the only Expert Sleepers hardware I have. Does it work the same, or is it not compatible?
os
These externals are nothing to do with the ES-1 or the ES-1 mode on the disting.
drmarble
os wrote:
These externals are nothing to do with the ES-1 or the ES-1 mode on the disting.


Ok, thanks for clarifying. I thought that they might produce the same AC-encoded signals that the hardware could then decode back to CVs.

Then, is there a way for Max to communicate with the Disting in ES-1 mode?

This article suggests there is, but does not explain how...
https://cycling74.com/articles/hardware-review-the-expert-sleeper-dist ing-updated

“as you watch and listen, assume that Max could be your software substitute”
os
You basically need to AM modulate a high frequency carrier with the CV you want to output.
drmarble
os wrote:
You basically need to AM modulate a high frequency carrier with the CV you want to output.


I guessed that was the general idea, but I was wondering if there were technical details available anywhere. There is obviously a translation that needs to happen between “CV level” (or, since it’s in the computer at that point, a floating point value) and modulator frequency, as well as some specific carrier frequencies that the ES-1 expects.

I am a longtime Max user and I would be happy to assemble a Max patch to share with everyone that performs this translation.

If it’s proprietary information that you don’t want to share, I understand. I’m just wondering if I missed the technical specs on it somehow, because I can’t find them anywhere online.
os
There's no particular frequency required, and there's trim adjustment on the disting for the DC offset.
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