MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Mtasonix R52 favourite patches?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Metasonix Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Mtasonix R52 favourite patches?
ex_dead_teenager
I've got one I don't use it as much as I think I should maybe I'm stupid or something but I'm having a hard time geting it to act like a "normal" filter the sound gets filteres no matter what the input level when I turn that down it's just like turning down the volume on something which is already effected it's not like any other filter I own. I want to like it but maybe I'm just not getting it in the right way anyone here want to contribute some favourite patches with this one to get my imagination going?

cheers.
thermionicjunky
Depends on what you mean. Do you mean that the amplitude won't reduce to silence? Why would the signal not be filtered with low input levels, aside from complete silence? Or do you mean that you hear it self-resonate with no input? This filter design becomes more resonant with low input, so the resonance pot must be turned down along with the input pot. This is my favorite use of this filter (TM-6 and S-1000, in my case). That's when it doesn't squawk, but just filters. I assume that this is the difficulty. This filter works best in a purely subtractive manner, rather than as an additive resonator. It's best at taking a complex or very thick signal and subtly sculpting through filter-type mixtures. If you have sidebands or wavefolding going on, it is great at highlighting different regions of the sound mass. Or you can drive it hard and increase the resonance.The input level and resonance should usually be adjusted together.
Mr White
Thyratron Genius explainded it clearly, as always!

I may add then that if you're searching for tipical filtering you can achieve even that as well.

this filter has so much metasonix style as other modules indeed, I dont know if you listened to this before: http://soundcloud.com/whitesushi/r-52-bassline just to understand if I'm referring correctly to what you're referring in your post, I dont want to pimp myself with this! oops
ex_dead_teenager
thanks guys,

I guess what I mean about "turning down the volume" in my first post is that on mine the input level doesn't seem to behave like a cutoff knob but more like a volume knob. when it's up all the way and I'm sending a signal through it it effects the sound and as I turn down the input knob the effect only lessens in volume not in character the way a regular filter would. Also I'm having a bit of trouble geting the Tuning offset knob to do anything useful. I like the filter's self oscillations and the thing it does to signals is nice it sort of warms them up and I've goten some interesting sounds from it but it doesn't seem to act like a regular filter. It's sort of a thing unto itself. BTW Mr. White that's a sick bassline
thermionicjunky
ex_dead_teenager wrote:
thanks guys,

I guess what I mean about "turning down the volume" in my first post is that on mine the input level doesn't seem to behave like a cutoff knob but more like a volume knob. when it's up all the way and I'm sending a signal through it it effects the sound and as I turn down the input knob the effect only lessens in volume not in character the way a regular filter would. Also I'm having a bit of trouble geting the Tuning offset knob to do anything useful. I like the filter's self oscillations and the thing it does to signals is nice it sort of warms them up and I've goten some interesting sounds from it but it doesn't seem to act like a regular filter. It's sort of a thing unto itself. BTW Mr. White that's a sick bassline


I guess the R-52 behaves a bit differently than its predecessors. The input level control of the TM-6 definitely changes the character. It affects the distortion level and the resonance. Either way, it's gong to feel different than most filters. It should be most similar to other twin-t bandpass filters (I think Paia had one) but with more features and other behaviors dependent on tube type and supply voltage, I guess. It's probably normal for the tuning knob to only have an obvious effect in a limited range of travel. The seemingly dead spots become important when the fixed voltage is summed with external CV. I suppose that someone with an R-52 will have to verify the input level issues. I'm quite surprised to hear that the character isn't changed drastically. Is there a recommended input amplitude in the manual? It's somewhat lower than typical modular levels for the TM series, so maybe the R series is designed to be less sensitive in order to handle unattenuated VCO outputs. If that's the case, maybe a bit of amplification could cause it too change character. Does it overdrive easily, or not at all?
ex_dead_teenager
I don't have answers to a lot of these questions I don't have a manual for it because I got it second hand. to hopefully be clearer, the character of the sound does change it's not the same as the dry signal but there doesn't seem to be a cuttoff response like on a normal filter, these are just my innitial observations I've only had it a little while and it's my first metasonix anything and my first tube driven anything as well. I'm in uncharted territory here.
attacksustain
Because I wanted to try out my new camera, I just recorded a couple of minutes messing around with a really simple r52 patch.

Two Plan B model 15's into the r52, into an r51 VCA.



The r52 is pretty versatile. Sometimes you hit those screamy resonant pitches, and you can 'play' the filter with the tuning knob. Not shown in this video, but LFO'ing the CV inputs at the same time can get some really wild results.

Sidenote: holy crap, youtube really smashes the high end with its compression. I can hear all these weird aliasing noises that aren't present in my local copy of the video. Nuts.
Suburban Bather
Cool screaming goo yo I can't wait to try these out. Any chance you could do video or audio demo of all three in action?
dkcg
ex_dead_teenager wrote:
I don't have answers to a lot of these questions I don't have a manual for it because I got it second hand. to hopefully be clearer, the character of the sound does change it's not the same as the dry signal but there doesn't seem to be a cuttoff response like on a normal filter, these are just my innitial observations I've only had it a little while and it's my first metasonix anything and my first tube driven anything as well. I'm in uncharted territory here.


There are printed (copier) manuals. Maybe you could get a pdf from Eric B.? If you have trouble getting them, PM me and I'll scan mine for you.
dkcg
Suburban Bather wrote:
Cool screaming goo yo I can't wait to try these out. Any chance you could do video or audio demo of all three in action?


The R-53 is definitely the nastiest sounding, the pulsar is quite nice.
I'll try to record something this weekend. I finally got the R-51 not long ago and my trio is complete. I'd make a video but I can't find the stupid cable for my camera (which is why I haven't uploaded any new videos in months). d'oh!

From what I can tell with my modules, the level inputs and outputs both effect the sound a lot. Little 1-5 degree turns can change the timbre in all the modules. But I don't have any Metasonix pedals so I can't compare them to the TM series. Maybe slightly tamer?
dougcl
dkcg wrote:

From what I can tell with my modules, the level inputs and outputs both effect the sound a lot. Little 1-5 degree turns can change the timbre in all the modules.


If you haven't already, get an VCA on the input signal and try modulating everything with the PH-4. smile
dkcg
Here's what I came up with. I had a much prettier patch left from when I was testing out the VCA after I bought it. But it didn't sound Metasonix. It was as I think Eric would call it, a whining little pussy turd of a patch. And not in a good way. cry

So, I added a Zorlon, a Malgorithm, and changed out an oscillator for another fairly new aquisition, a NoiseSwash. I guess getting pretty sounds doing mostly FM lately is making me long for some of the nasty. Like when a loud band you may like walks off stage and their instruments sit there feeding back for 10 minutes, doing their own dirty little compositions until they come back for the encore. sad banana

In short, I tried to make this the opposite end of the aesthetics spectrum from FM, damn I love tubes. Clip and overdrive this signal mutha fucka! Anyhow, the metasonix trio recording I patched up since my last post. I tried to get some variety. But I admit it's hard to tell since the signal going into the yellow modules is already so fucked up.

http://virb.com/ibdk/audio/448502
thermionicjunky
ex_dead_teenager wrote:
...there doesn't seem to be a cuttoff response like on a normal filter ...


This is the terminology that confuses me. Are we discussing the input amplitude or the filter cutoff? The filter will pass some dry signal to the output and it won't filter out all audible frequencies. The lowpass emulation is not like a 24db lowpass that goes into sub-audio territory. Anyway, it is an unusual filter that may or may not suit your needs. I find that unless the patch is about the strange things that can be done with the filter in extreme settings, it is best at focusing attention on some aspect of an additive patch in front of it. I get the feeling now that we're talking about the filter's range and the amount of attenuation outside of the pass-band. Perhaps?
ex_dead_teenager
Thyatron Genius I've completely exposed my ignorance I'm not certain I know the exact best way to reply to your post. Perhaps I'm confusing the two in my own head but as I understand it the filter cutoff is the point at which harmonics are filtered out and this cutoff changes as the knob is swept from CW to CCW or vice versa. The cutoff is dependent on the decibal curve of the filter, the steeper the curve the more quickly the harmonics are filtered (am I right?)

What I don't get about the r52 is that on my other filters there's a point where the only sound passing from input to output is the dry signal, it's when you adjust the knobs that the actual sound (the one present at the input) is effected by the filter. On my r52 it seems that the signal never has that dry sound it's effected as soon as it passes through the module no matter what the input level knob is set at, and changing the input level (while it does change the sound) doesn't act like a normal filter cutoff knob as I'm used to them and as I've tried to describe above.

I don't think mine is defective, after watching the video above that's roughly how it sounds though it's convinced me I need some serious one on one with the module alone in some basic patches to figure out it's quirks.

I think where the confusion between filter cutoff and input ampletude comes in is that I observed that since the signal never seems dry when it's sent through the r52 (no matter what the knobs are set at, and unlike the other filters I've got) the "input level" knob seems to act more like a volume knob than a straight filter cutoff.

I'm trying to be clear but I'm still relatively new both to this module and modulars (I've had a modular for only about a year and a half and this module for a couple of weeks).

Sorry for the lack of vocabulary skillz. I doubt it's busted or anything I think rather that I'm a bit behind on the learning curve.
Cat-A-Tonic
I've never encountered an input knob that acted like a Filter Cutoff.
I would expect the input knob to attenuate or overdrive the input signal.

Thinking about a bandpass filter the cutoff would control the peak.
on a notch filter the cutoff would control the lowest point of the trough.
on a lowpass or highpass filter the cutoff would control the edge of the slope at which frequencies start being removed from the signal.

The resonance controls how steep the filter's slope is.

Even if you have a relatively tame filter set to almost no resonance and with the cutoff set 'wide open' you should probably still be able to hear *some* mild coloration when compared to the bypassed version of the sound.
wetterberg
most waveshapers respond differently to different input levels, tho - I always use a vca before the a-137-1, for instance.
Mr White
this filter is quite esoteric, so it behaves often strangely. if you set resonance to zero on mine no sound passes at all!

so ex dead teenager try to spend more quality time you can with this baby and be careful with the input/resonance correlation. the tuning offset has also a very limited knob range in wich you will hear sweeps when driving the sweep CV in with an envelope or something but hold on on that! smile
unfortunately I sold mine so I cant compare directly what you are sayng or make any video but I know the module almost to say that's a matter of correlation...
thermionicjunky
ex_dead_teenager wrote:
Thyatron Genius I've completely exposed my ignorance I'm not certain I know the exact best way to reply to your post. Perhaps I'm confusing the two in my own head but as I understand it the filter cutoff is the point at which harmonics are filtered out and this cutoff changes as the knob is swept from CW to CCW or vice versa. The cutoff is dependent on the decibal curve of the filter, the steeper the curve the more quickly the harmonics are filtered (am I right?)

What I don't get about the r52 is that on my other filters there's a point where the only sound passing from input to output is the dry signal, it's when you adjust the knobs that the actual sound (the one present at the input) is effected by the filter. On my r52 it seems that the signal never has that dry sound it's effected as soon as it passes through the module no matter what the input level knob is set at, and changing the input level (while it does change the sound) doesn't act like a normal filter cutoff knob as I'm used to them and as I've tried to describe above.

I don't think mine is defective, after watching the video above that's roughly how it sounds though it's convinced me I need some serious one on one with the module alone in some basic patches to figure out it's quirks.

I think where the confusion between filter cutoff and input ampletude comes in is that I observed that since the signal never seems dry when it's sent through the r52 (no matter what the knobs are set at, and unlike the other filters I've got) the "input level" knob seems to act more like a volume knob than a straight filter cutoff.

I'm trying to be clear but I'm still relatively new both to this module and modulars (I've had a modular for only about a year and a half and this module for a couple of weeks).

Sorry for the lack of vocabulary skillz. I doubt it's busted or anything I think rather that I'm a bit behind on the learning curve.


Ah, I understand. You're thinking of a fully CW lowpass or fully CCW highpass that will mostly leave the signal untouched. The input level IS just a volume control. You won't be able to fully open the filter with the filter tune pot in lowpass mode because it will only operate between 300 Hz and 1900 Hz. In one of the bandpass modes, there would be no way to open it fully. The term cutoff doesn't really apply (it sort of does in the lowpass emulation mode). It's best to think about it in terms of center frequency. What you're doing with this filter is rolling off the frequencies around this center frequency. The lowpass mode is two bandpass filters with more resonance on the higher filter. You've heard some pretty good examples of its quirky character. You can also do some really subtle stuff with low resonance. Either way it's different. Remember that it will be most effective on signals with interesting things going on between 300 and 1900 Hz. It really needs to be used as a different kind of effect than most filters. It's rather effective processing one stem of some kind of parallel patch. Mult your signal to a few filters or other modifiers and pan them separately. Or run different waveshaper outputs into different filters. I use them alone most of the time, but I've been using them for a long time. I'm only now building some filters that are closer to normal.

Anyway, you might not need this type of filter, but you won't have trouble selling it if you don't.
Suburban Bather
dkcg wrote:


http://virb.com/ibdk/audio/448502


Thank you! Sounds like this trio is going to work out perfectly Metasonix!
ex_dead_teenager
as an update I've been spending a lot of time patching with this filter almost exclusively since I started this thread and I think I've fallen in love. Attack Sustain you're right about playing the resonance with the tuning offset! Thanks again for the video.

almost all my life is still in boxes right now so no audio or videwo from me sadly but rest assured that this thread has been very helpful to me in warming to the tubes! This is a great filter!
zerosum
Took me a while to realize this but I almost always have the resonance at least 75% cranked.(which makes it louder!)
I end up using the R52 more as a voice to drone over the voice its filtering,
then apply CV to the filter, so lots of oscillation applause
slow_riot
triple ultra holy fuck. just picked up r52.

not words to describe. what an incredible piece of machinary.
slow_riot
i love the r-52.

really interesting and chracterful filter. so many options.

Think the only caveat of usage, is not to use it as a replacement for filter in a classic subtractive patch. More of a tone modifyer than a functional filter thing.

Apart from that it's pretty hard not to find new ways for it to do super awsome stuff.
TrashWaveform
If you get a good drone or feedback loop going this thing really shines in expanding its possibilities using its knobs. Everything else I typically stick to the Polivoks. This is mainly due to control preference since the R-52 can scream just as loud. I just think its resolution is a bit low when feeding it CV signals. Especially when compared to my other filter CV ins. There are of course "work arounds".
slow_riot
i usually just stare at the tubes, accept that they don't like me, etc etc. and then anything enjoyable that comes after that is a bonus.

Recently I've been putting something quite simple into audio in. and then a weirder signal into sweep cv in. and voila, good stuff.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Metasonix Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Page 1 of 2
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group