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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

V'Amp
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Flight of Harmony  
Author V'Amp
flight

Moving the discussion here. I'll give some details later - too damn busy!
wetterberg
I say hot DAMN!
DGTom
cchhhhiiiizzzzzz!!!

hyper
flight
Okiedokie, the carrot:

A morphing VCA. It morphs smoothly from AM>Ring Mod>Phase inversion.

The stick:
Voltage control only available for the AM. The morphing circuit is eluding all attempts at adding VC so far.

Mod1 controls the morphing - the balanced modulation.
Mod2 controls the VCA - the AM gain cell.

The jacks are wired as multiples, like on the Plague Bearer. The teeth show which ones are connected.

More details later, I gotta get back to work.
suboptimal
Flight, you're well on your way to having a complete synth on offer! Congrats on another awesome design.
parasitk
Very cool! thumbs up
DGTom
woah jawdrop Wow! we're not worthy
Synesthesia
already added in the rackplanner twisted
attacksustain
flight wrote:
A morphing VCA. It morphs smoothly from AM>Ring Mod>Phase inversion.


MY ASS IS BLEEDING WANT!
Junk Rhythm
I'm diggin it.
Waz
I'd make those POT arrows little tiny bats or crosses, but that's just me.

I like this design tho. You definitely have my favourite designs by far. Make noise comes in second, but far behind yours. applause
Exuviae
Nice. Feature-packed and compact.

'Bout 8hp like the PB?
flight
Thanks everyone!

@ Exuviae: Yup, 8hp. Nice n' skinny.
aetherpulse
you're making it very hard to stick with just Serge! Maybe a Serge/FoH system?

Too bad you've given up on Frac, I have an empty one just waiting for FoH diseased goodness...
flight
aetherpulse wrote:

...
Too bad you've given up on Frac, I have an empty one just waiting for FoH diseased goodness...


Okay, I need to make this clear though: I did not choose to give up on the frac format. I did not have a choice. They do not sell. Analogue Haven still has more than 25 of the 30 frac Choices from their first Choices stock purchase at the time the module was released, and the frac Plague Bearers have not fared much better. Because of this, AH can not afford to carry them, and I can not afford to produce them.

I understand your frustration, believe me. I was a minidisc *zealot* - Pro stereo rack unit, minidisc drive on my computer, two portables, and a freaking sweet head unit in my truck. But me and the 20 others who felt the same as I were not enough to support A) stores to stock the minidisc equipment and cassettes, or B) Sony to keep manufacturing them. Now they are a novelty at best.
johnnymad
flight wrote:
I understand your frustration, believe me. I was a minidisc *zealot* - Pro stereo rack unit, minidisc drive on my computer, two portables, and a freaking sweet head unit in my truck. But me and the 20 others who felt the same as I were not enough to support A) stores to stock the minidisc equipment and cassettes, or B) Sony to keep manufacturing them. Now they are a novelty at best.


i haven't given up on minidiscs, flight! i use them to record my practice sessions.
Soy Sos
I don't understand why Frac users don't just buy the barebones kits. I can respect when Flight says the financial issues make it too difficult to support the format. Just about anyone should be able to put these kits together. I know the panel art is very cool though.
aetherpulse
Soy Sos wrote:
I don't understand why Frac users don't just buy the barebones kits. I can respect when Flight says the financial issues make it too difficult to support the format. Just about anyone should be able to put these kits together. I know the panel art is very cool though.


This is exactly what I intend to do. The panel art is the only thing I will miss.
I completely understand why it has to be this way. Frac seems to be more of a DIY format anyway.
DGTom
barebones makes flight the Robin Hood of modular synthesis! wink applause
Kent
And here I thought I was a freak with my Frac-format Mini-Disc player!
flight
@ johnnymad: Oh, I still use them when I can, just not to the extent I did before. I lost the faceplate to the head unit in my truck, and they've all been discontinued. Minidiscs are harder (and more expensive) to come by as well these days. Also, the software for the minidisc bay on my 'puter is really out-of-date and buggy, and Sony-proprietary so I can't even erase and re-use any of the 400+ discs that I have.
angry
aetherpulse wrote:
...
This is exactly what I intend to do. The panel art is the only thing I will miss.
I completely understand why it has to be this way. Frac seems to be more of a DIY format anyway.


Hmm, this - combined with Soy Sos' comment - gives me a possible solution:
Thin metal adhesive Frac panel overlays.
I can get them done in Metalphoto, 0.003" thick, with an adhesive backing. They would be black background, but with natural aluminum graphics instead of white. These should be cheap enough to make viable, then all you would need is the Barebones Pack and a piece of aluminum for the base panel. The overlay would be pre-punched, and I would provide a 1:1 scale drill template for the panel.

Let me know how that sounds and I'll look into it. The last thing I want to do is get in the way of DIY!
aetherpulse
That sound's like a very good solution Flight.
Mood Organ
flight wrote:

Thin metal adhesive Frac panel overlays.
I can get them done in Metalphoto, 0.003" thick, with an adhesive backing. They would be black background, but with natural aluminum graphics instead of white. These should be cheap enough to make viable, then all you would need is the Barebones Pack and a piece of aluminum for the base panel. The overlay would be pre-punched, and I would provide a 1:1 scale drill template for the panel.


OK, I'll bite. I have close to zero DIY experience - I have breadboarded some dumb squarewave oscillators and I've done a little soldering. I actually failed at the Blacet DIY cable kit d'oh! Could I realistically put together a kit for, say, the SoS module?

The panel overlay is a winning idea. Getting a panel was one of the things I was unsure how to go about...

For the record, I have no illusions about the economic reality of doing this stuff for Frac. I emailed Shawn Cleary at AH to ask if he'd be interested in keeping a pre-order list for the SoS. If he's got 25 Choices modules sitting on a shelf, I'm guessing I won't hear back from him. sad banana

On the other hand, my bitterness over the whole Frac situation is likely to subside now that I FINALLY (as in this week) have tracked down most of the Wiard stuff which led me to choose the format to begin with. Drinking

I can't go Euro... or I'll never be able to afford to quit my job and actually use this stuff!
Soy Sos

Stickers, YES!!! I would proudly and with great joy put some lil FoH stickers with my 2 panel mounted PB's. Also the adhesive graphics sticker is a great idea for the DIY crew. I'm all about inexpensive solutions for this kind of thing.

@Mood Organ
The barebones are dead easy. If I can do it, I'm sure you can too. Aluminum is cheap and pretty easy to cut and drill. Plus it's a pretty good feeling that you at least part way made it yourself. Go for it.
thumbs up
Mood Organ
Mood Organ wrote:
I emailed Shawn Cleary at AH to ask if he'd be interested in keeping a pre-order list for the SoS. If he's got 25 Choices modules sitting on a shelf, I'm guessing I won't hear back from him. sad banana


I spoke too soon! Shawn will indeed keep a pre-order list. Email him if you want Frac Sound of Shadows. I'll post more about this soon.

Now, back to the V'Amp...
flight
Shawn is an incredibly great guy. He'll always talk to you if you have a proposal of some kind. He is quite a business man.

@ Mood Organ:
First, I just have to say that your hat is frikkin' awesome.
Barebones Packs (BP): They're almost completely assembled, all you need to do is knock some holes in a panel and connect the offboard components - pots, jacks, switches, etc. - which is why they are Barebones Packs, not kits. The BP come with enough panel components to have full functionality (no duplicates, like multiples, unless they are ordered extra), and the wire-to-PCB connectors for them - also the component-to-wire connectors if possible. The connectors are mostly IDT (Insulation Displacement Technology = no soldering), so you just need some wire & a smallish flat-blade screwdriver to push the wires in. The joystick connectors on the Choices require crimping because IDC are too fat to fit in that particular location on the PCB, and some components (like jacks) need the wires soldered on, but that's pretty much all aside from mounting everything to the panel.


Stickers: Hell yes, I'm gonna look into this when I have a chance. thumbs up
felix
flight wrote:
A morphing VCA. It morphs smoothly from AM>Ring Mod>Phase inversion.


Awesome! I'm assuming this will be DC-coupled and allow for processing control voltages too?
Exuviae
felix wrote:
flight wrote:
A morphing VCA. It morphs smoothly from AM>Ring Mod>Phase inversion.


Awesome! I'm assuming this will be DC-coupled and allow for processing control voltages too?


Please say yes, Flight.
Cybananna
This sounds like another really cool module.
flight
felix wrote:
flight wrote:
A morphing VCA. It morphs smoothly from AM>Ring Mod>Phase inversion.


Awesome! I'm assuming this will be DC-coupled and allow for processing control voltages too?

Sorry, it had to be AC-coupled for the morphing feature to work right - trade-offs, ya know?
computer controlled
How did i miss this thread?? I really am looking fwd to this module! Longer than most =oD Any guestimate on when it's completion will be?


I just got a nice new job applause
flight
computer controlled - There you are! I was wondering when you would pipe up. wink
computer controlled
I have, apparently, been under a rock

hmmm.....
transferpoint
fucking dope!
shamann
Bump!

When are you expecting this one to ship?
computer controlled
Uh oh...


eek!
REwire
I foolishly sold my Oakley RM then my ModDeMod in anticipation of this. Dead Banana

Any updates?

D
flight
Ah shit.
Well, the V'Amp got sidelined during the Chaos of the SoS release. I'm freaking horrible at multitasking. I'll be back on this next week, but am not digging any more holes by announcing a release date.

@ REwire: That was foolish, but I started it so the blame's on me. May I send you a V'Amp prototype to play with in the interim?
stin-g
I'm hoping that REwire responded to you on that, because it's an incredibly rad thing to offer to do.

It's OK that you got busy with the SoS because it was totally worth it. It rules so superhard! I can feel my little earhairs dancing in anticipation of the V'amp (or is that quivering in fear?!?)!
thumbs up
computer controlled
I think about this little guy every day =o]
blungo2
i can't believe i ever assumed this would be a normal vca. d'oh!

looking forward to this one! all the foh stuff i have is completely amazing, but i need more...
flight
Thanks for the support everyone!
I'm trying like hell to get back on track. This move (and everything else that happened concurrently) has thrown me off much more than I had hoped, but I'm working on it.
Lama
Analoguehaven list the Vámp as "coming soon". Any news on a release date, or are they just overly optimistic?
computer controlled
hyper
flight
Lama wrote:
Analoguehaven list the Vámp as "coming soon". Any news on a release date, or are they just overly optimistic?

No date, but they're not being optimistic either. Just that every time I state a date, something happens to make me a liar. Let's just say it's close.
VanEck
Any updates on this guy?

I need some more VCA's, but am trying to hold out for this one maybe screaming goo yo
flight
In production right now.
megamouse
nanners
lombrose
hyper
computer controlled
And it's loverly!
HeWhoWantsJeans
I keep hearing about how 'I need a VCA', and I'm eager to try out a V'AMP for that duty. SlayerBadger!
numan7
HeWhoWantsJeans wrote:
I keep hearing about how 'I need a VCA', and I'm eager to try out a V'AMP for that duty. SlayerBadger!


keep in mind that this is a special vca that is for audio-only. you still may want some other vcas for cv (like the one on SoS, for instance) in your system...
nrdvrgr
Damn quiet about the V´amp here...?

I have been thinking about exchanging my Doepfer VCA for a V´amp.
How good is the V´amp as a "vanilla" VCA?
Exuviae
nrdvrgr wrote:
Damn quiet about the V´amp here...?

I have been thinking about exchanging my Doepfer VCA for a V´amp.
How good is the V´amp as a "vanilla" VCA?


YES!

Tell us, please.
nrdvrgr
Bumping again. Noone here who owns one???
computer controlled
The V'Amp works just fine as a normal VCA, because it IS a regular old VCA. It just has some neat tricks it can do. It only has 1 input though, so that might be a bit limiting to you.
nrdvrgr
Thanks!
Scottzilla
Here's a Matrixsynth video of Computer Controlled playing with one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLNAa63r07s
CreepTheProphet
I've enjoyed playing with the V'Amp in conjunction with a couple of Plague Bearers and the Hertz Donut. Unfortunately I'm a total noob so I can't really say "go buy this."

The Ring Mod ability though is fun to tweak with though but it can take a little work to get it right.
flight
Oh yes, I forgot to mention:
It is possible to voltage-control the morphing (Mod1) function - to some degree, at least. With an audio signal into the first Mod1 input jack, apply a DC bias to the second Mod1 jack. You don't get the full range of morphing, but enough to do some neat tricks like bring it into ring mod, through into inversion, then back out again.
DGTom
Would it be possible to have DC coupled I/O? or is that incompatible with the internal machinations of the V'Amp?

I'd love to be able to process CVs with this.
flight
DGTom wrote:
Would it be possible to have DC coupled I/O? or is that incompatible with the internal machinations of the V'Amp?

I'd love to be able to process CVs with this.

Sorry, no can do. seriously, i just don't get it
space6oy
does only the upper of the v'amp's audio in jacks work as an input for the VCA? seems like they both would, being a mult pair, but my lower in isn't letting anything through to the outs, just to the upper in. which does then send the signal to the outs if something's plugged into it as well...
space6oy
eh? seriously, i just don't get it
flight
space6oy wrote:
does only the upper of the v'amp's audio in jacks work as an input for the VCA? seems like they both would, being a mult pair, but my lower in isn't letting anything through to the outs, just to the upper in. which does then send the signal to the outs if something's plugged into it as well...

Gah, sorry. Really busy lately.
That's correct. They are mults, but have to be used in a specific order: The outside jacks first, inside second. Follow the direction of the "teeth" - wide end first, point second. (this should be in the manual, BTW)

The circuit didn't like having any of the inputs left floating, so it had to be done this way. seriously, i just don't get it
space6oy
ok cool, glad it's not something off about mine. thanks!
ben jah men
I'm getting extra noise out of this guy.. is that normal?

basically I'm retarded and just now started using it as a vca (or using it.).

and I noticed immediately that when ONLY the output of V'amp is plugged into my Malekko output its got a strong BUZZZZZZZZZZZZ, it continues when plugging stuff in to the input as well..

none of my other modules do hmmm.....
flight
ben jah men wrote:
...when ONLY the output of V'amp is plugged into my Malekko output...
Is this right? Connecting an output to another output doesn't usually give the best results anywhere.
ben jah men
sorry... thats the name of the module itself... its basically just a 1/8 to 1/4 with attenuation..

so yeah, v'amp "output" to>malekko outputs "input"
flight
Ah, gotcha. oops

I have never noticed this happening myself, nor has anyone else mentioned it to me yet. Does it do this when the output of the V'Amp is plugged into anything else, or just the Malekko Output?
joel1088
Just posted a video about how to get rid of bleed when using amplitude modulation on the V'Amp
HeWhoWantsJeans
joel1088 wrote:
Just posted a video about how to get rid of bleed when using amplitude modulation on the V'Amp

Great job, Operator. I really appreciated how heavy on information it was. No frills, no bullshit - just the straight Gospel. Heh.
computer controlled
Just use Mod 1, this is your mod source input for AM/RM. That's what its for. Mod 2 is basically just an attenuated EG input.
box of monsters
Hi, i'm thinking of picking up a FOH V'amp though i was wondering if anyone can tell me if the VCA side is of a logarithmic or linear response? (i'm assuming it's log).

Also, do one of the knobs work like the gain knob in Doepfer's A-130/A-131? As i often use it opened up for drones.

Thanks in advance.
computer controlled
To be honest, i'm not sure if its Lin or Expo. Let me find out.

And yes, you can open it up for drones.
box of monsters
Good to know that it can be opened up, thanks! grin
mmm
box of monsters wrote:
Hi, i'm thinking of picking up a FOH V'amp though i was wondering if anyone can tell me if the VCA side is of a logarithmic or linear response? (i'm assuming it's log).

Also, do one of the knobs work like the gain knob in Doepfer's A-130/A-131? As i often use it opened up for drones.

Thanks in advance.


It's linear. The Mod 2 is expecting a logarithmic EG. That's also why it "bleeds" if you put an LFO into that input. You're opening and closing the VCA throughput at the LFO rate on the unbalanced modulator gain cell portion. Which is what it's suppose to do. 5V it's open, 0V it's off.
Putting a gate into the second jack essentially holds the VCA mod 1 input at 0V until the gate is active. At which point, it opens up the VCA and the secondary mod source sums/differences the gain cell.

The center "Offset" control is your 0-5V input to the unbalanced gain cell summation bus. Therefore, it can open up the VCA for drones. This voltage parallels the Mod 1 input to the summation bus.

Mod 1 is the balanced modulator. The inputs are switched to ground when nothing is in the jacks. It's easy to find the full ring mod position that way. With a signal going through the VCA, turn the Mod 1 control until the output goes to 0. The signal has been supressed and the RM (+/- 0Hz=0)
provides no sidebands. Plugging your modulation source into the mod 1 input jack will give you just the sum and difference frequencies without the original signal.

G
chvad
Just wanted to chime in with some V'Amp love... picked it up a few weeks ago... didn't need another VCA.. I had 8 already but I have to say this has been my "go to" ever since. Not sure if it's the sound or the layout or what but when im patching that's the first vca i head to! awesome stuff!
computer controlled
thumbs up
lilakmonoke
being a devoted f(h) fan im thinking about getting one. just because i would have all the f(h) modules then ... main question is: what does it sound like? can somebody compare it to something? i know vcas are difficult to describe but when i use them they alle have a distinct sound.
mmm
lilakmonoke wrote:
being a devoted f(h) fan im thinking about getting one. just because i would have all the f(h) modules then ... main question is: what does it sound like? can somebody compare it to something? i know vcas are difficult to describe but when i use them they alle have a distinct sound.


The VCA/Ring mod has been around for about 40-some years.
The lineage is:
EML-PMS-MMM-FoH
EML used essentially the same VCA circuit from their EML 101 when they designed the VCA for the Performance Music Systems Syntar in 1980. Mattson turned the Syntar VCA circuit into a module for the Mini Modular "Phoenix Series" VCA module, FoH licensed the VCA circuit for the V'Amp.

So, look for EML VCA reviews, Syntar VCA reviews, Mattson VCA reviews and you'll be fairly well informed on the VCA.
Bakeneko
I recently ordered a V'Amp, it landed this morning and I am very pleased with its functionality. My first piece of f(h) kit , it won't be my last. That is my evening sorted.

cheers
JakeGrover
I just want to say that I recently had to seek tech support from FoH and their customer service is excellent!

They repaired my V'Amp and shipped it back to me for free. Thanks so much! I Will definitely keep buying FoH modules!!!

Oh and the V'amp (as has been noted above) is awesome!
mmm
JakeGrover wrote:
I just want to say that I recently had to seek tech support from FoH and their customer service is excellent!

They repaired my V'Amp and shipped it back to me for free. Thanks so much! I Will definitely keep buying FoH modules!!!

Oh and the V'amp (as has been noted above) is awesome!


It's a cool little widget.
EarlJemmings
Hey, so I just got a V'amp, floor model from a store.
I seem to be getting just +/- 1v signal out of it when using Mod1? This is using both the two +/- 5v from Hertz Donut, or both the +/-10v from the dual borg.

Offset, input, output all full clockwise

I can get it up to almost 5v when using mod2 with a 10v source, but it seems to halve the voltage. Whereas using my mmvca as a ring mod it seems to have it equal with the original signal or doubled.

But yeah, 1v is just rediculously low, I can get a PB to stick beside it, but does this seem like proper behaviour? I do recall the IMP having a pretty low output as well.
HeWhoWantsJeans
EarlJemmings wrote:
Hey, so I just got a V'amp, floor model from a store.
I seem to be getting just +/- 1v signal out of it when using Mod1? This is using both the two +/- 5v from Hertz Donut, or both the +/-10v from the dual borg.

Offset, input, output all full clockwise

I can get it up to almost 5v when using mod2 with a 10v source, but it seems to halve the voltage. Whereas using my mmvca as a ring mod it seems to have it equal with the original signal or doubled.

But yeah, 1v is just rediculously low, I can get a PB to stick beside it, but does this seem like proper behaviour? I do recall the IMP having a pretty low output as well.

Earl,

I don't have any answer for you on that one, so I sent Flight a message. I'll do what I can to try and get an answer your way.

Thanks,
Erik
flight
EarlJemmings wrote:
Hey, so I just got a V'amp, floor model from a store.
I seem to be getting just +/- 1v signal out of it when using Mod1? This is using both the two +/- 5v from Hertz Donut, or both the +/-10v from the dual borg.

Offset, input, output all full clockwise

I can get it up to almost 5v when using mod2 with a 10v source, but it seems to halve the voltage. Whereas using my mmvca as a ring mod it seems to have it equal with the original signal or doubled.

But yeah, 1v is just rediculously low, I can get a PB to stick beside it, but does this seem like proper behaviour? I do recall the IMP having a pretty low output as well.

Hmm, how exactly do you have it set up? What is on the Input channel?

And yeah, IMP and V'Amp can have low outputs. It's a tradeoff that comes with those designs, because the outputs vary significantly with the settings. I had the choice of leaving them as-is or including an AGC, which affects the sound a lot. I agree, however, 1V is ridiculously low. Let's see what we can figure out here.
EarlJemmings
flight wrote:
Hmm, how exactly do you have it set up? What is on the Input channel?

And yeah, IMP and V'Amp can have low outputs. It's a tradeoff that comes with those designs, because the outputs vary significantly with the settings. I had the choice of leaving them as-is or including an AGC, which affects the sound a lot. I agree, however, 1V is ridiculously low. Let's see what we can figure out here.


Thanks Flight, on the input I've got a sine from Hertz Donut, a +/-5V signal. Its mod oscillator, same thing being sent to Mod 1.
I've found from the thread in the Euro forum that sending a +7V offset to Env or mod in will bring the output up to about +/-4V, same with sending it an envelope or additional modulator.
However, just using Env in as the modulator input only brings it up to about 3V.

So it's workable, and does sound great, does it seem like proper working order to you?
flight
EarlJemmings wrote:
*snip*

Thanks Flight, on the input I've got a sine from Hertz Donut, a +/-5V signal. Its mod oscillator, same thing being sent to Mod 1.
I've found from the thread in the Euro forum that sending a +7V offset to Env or mod in will bring the output up to about +/-4V, same with sending it an envelope or additional modulator.
However, just using Env in as the modulator input only brings it up to about 3V.

So it's workable, and does sound great, does it seem like proper working order to you?
Yeah, that does sound about right. It's a funky module with some very odd behavior, which is kind of a theme for me. hihi The main concept with it is that it can go from amplitude modulation to ring modulation - and all points between - with the turn of a knob, so the standard features suffered a bit. I covered that a bit in the manual. All that said, I don't recall it being particularly quiet, but it's been a while. If I still have one, I'll dig it out and dink around with it to see what comes out.
EarlJemmings
flight wrote:
Yeah, that does sound about right. It's a funky module with some very odd behavior, which is kind of a theme for me. hihi The main concept with it is that it can go from amplitude modulation to ring modulation - and all points between - with the turn of a knob, so the standard features suffered a bit. I covered that a bit in the manual. All that said, I don't recall it being particularly quiet, but it's been a while. If I still have one, I'll dig it out and dink around with it to see what comes out.


hihi I certainly don't mind quirks, and it's not a deal breaker for me or anything. I couldn't find any mention of a low output, so I was just worried my floor model wasn't up to par. But now its documented if anyone is wondering the same, and I will continue to enjoy this module!

I really enjoy our designs, hope to see more from you, whenever you're back at it Guinness ftw!
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