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[PROJECT] Music Thing Spring Reverb
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 44, 45, 46, 47, 48  Next [all]
Author [PROJECT] Music Thing Spring Reverb
synthetek
Waves wrote:

Just saw this, I figured that is why the trimpot didn't seem to work.
Also, it's the "medium" brick- 2.5 seconds
Works as it should now


What did you do to get the brick to work? mine works fine with the tank but the brick sounds more like a weird delay.
indigoid
Tombola wrote:
Dogue wrote:
Not sure if this has been answered in the 66 pages, but:

Can anyone suggest either a US source for the kit or a PCB manufacturer? Thonk is out of stock of the RCA jack front panel kit, and an admittedly quick check in Eagle using OSH Park's DRC turned up a bunch of errors.


Yes, you wouldn't be able to do it in OSH Park because he can't do plated slots - and all the jack sockets plated slots. Also, the Gerbers are a bit huge, because of the logos, that seems to choke their (very cool otherwise) online system.

You can order the whole set from Seeedstudio (where I get them, and I think where Thonk gets his done) - the last set of prototypes I ordered were 5 each of 2 x pcbs and 2 x types of panels = $130 inc shipping. Just remember to tell them NOT to put their serial number in the top silkscreen layer on the panels.


Thanks so much for this advice Tombola, was just checking before posting a new thread to ask about (almost) exactly this. After cross-checking the Eagle board file, Seeed's Eagle CAM file and Seeed's PCB specification, it looks like the jacks should indeed work, but I was hoping to find someone else confirming it. Seeed's my usual PCB source, so this is excellent.

I was contemplating editing the design to use Thonkiconns instead, but I have a big pile of the jacks you used sitting unused because I didn't want to waste lots of time and junk boards trying to get the Eagle part right. Also I am running out of Thonkiconns. You may have just saved me a whole bunch of hassle with my own projects.

Thanks again, and thanks for sharing your awesome designs. spinning
Bamboombaps
auerhahn wrote:
auerhahn wrote:

If I remove the jumper on the back and take the wet signal directly, its is perfectly clear. The beep on the output disappears too.
The crossfade mode works alle the time.


While trying to narrow the error down to a specific place in the schematics, it seems to me like both parts, the crossfader and the reverb unit, are working fine seperately and the "feedback-sound" only appears when they are connected. Maybe a ground problem? still can't figure this out...


FWIW i am having exactly the same issue it sounds like Dead Banana
indigoid
I did correct a few DRC issues when generating gerbers for this project recently. One of them was a trace running far too close to a pin on the NE5532. It may be that this resulted in this trace being connected to a pin that it should not have been?
williamcarthief
Welp. I completed the build. The LED was responding appropriately. I hooked up the tank and got some reverb on the signal. The cv appeared to work. The tilt appeared to work though it was very subtle. There was quite a bit of distortion on the wet signal, whether the tank was hooked up or not, and the trimmer didn't seem to make a difference no matter how much I turned it in either direction. I searched this thread and found a link to the doc which describes the build process, something I had not yet seen, and I noticed step 14 where it instructs to clip part off the jacks and did that. Then I reflowed all the joints.

Now I plug it all in and turn it on and the LED doesn't work. No reverb. Signal flows through and it is slightly distorted no matter where the knobs are, no difference between wet and dry settings. CV does nothing on the CV inputs. Not sure what I've done here. I don't think I lingered too long reflowing the vactrol joints but I wasn't paying particular attention, do those fry easily?

Any thoughts?
indigoid
You might have one of the resistors around one of the opamps — particularly on the back PCB — wrong. It's a PITA but I recommend very carefully checking everything on the back PCB, and maybe the front PCB too. One wrong resistor could dramatically change the gain on one of the opamp circuits...

If you can't find the schematic easily, install Eagle and load up the files provided on the Music Thing website

Sorry I can't be more helpful; I'm on a train right now

Where did your PCBs come from?
indigoid
Also make sure you used the correct resistor for your vactrol type. If it's not one of the two suggested vactrols (NSL32SR3 or VTsomething, per the build notes) you may need to experiment a bit
atari5200
I'm curious if the module I just built is working within spec or if I need to adjust something.

I get no reverb at all until my Wet/Dry control is at about 9:00, from then on it seems to work as expected but I have a vague memory of the last module I built having more of an effect earlier in the rotation. Is this normal? Is there anything i can do to increase the range? It's not a huge deal but it's a fairly large dead spot...

Also, and this may or may not be related, I get a fair amount of bleed on the "wet" end when I use the crossfader. I know this is to be expected to some degree but I'm wondering if I can mitigate this a bit.

I'm using a VTL5C3 vactrol and the 47K resistor specified in the build docs. I'm also using the superbright" LED specified in the docs as well.
indigoid
atari5200 wrote:
I'm also using the superbright" LED


is it red? (it probably should be)
rosch
I've had mine waiting to be tested for 2 years or so after building, with the long accutronics tank.

Man this is a fantastic reverb. First I thought it wasn't working but it was just a crap cinch cable that I had. I'm tempted to make another one with a different tank.

atari5200
indigoid wrote:
atari5200 wrote:
I'm also using the superbright" LED


is it red? (it probably should be)


Nope, it's this one as spec'd on the BOM
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/VAOL-3LWY4/?qs=io7aH2hdVh7EI6v wg%252bnTZg%3D%3D
jbid55
Can anyone help find suitable replacements for the obsolete parts in the BOM? I'm a bit stupid when it comes to circuit components and finding replacements.
indigoid
jbid55 wrote:
Can anyone help find suitable replacements for the obsolete parts in the BOM? I'm a bit stupid when it comes to circuit components and finding replacements.


which parts?

I built my Springs (two, thus far...) from stock I mostly already had lying around on the bench

All of the parts are jellybean things that shouldn't be obsolete anytime soon. If a manufacturer has ditched them, look at a different manufacturer. In fact, maybe stop looking at specific manufacturers entirely and just look at parts that match those key specs:

- basic component type (resistor, ceramic cap, film cap, etc)
- package type (eg. though-hole resistor with axial legs, capacitor with radial legs spaced 5mm apart, 3mm through-hole red LED, transistor in TO-92 package)
- for resistors: resistance
- for capacitors: capacitance + voltage rating
- for transistors: best to stick with what was specified (eg. 2n3904), as otherwise you can get trapped by non-matching pinouts

Also keep in mind that you don't need every part in the BOM. You only need the parts for the variant you want to build. Eg. if you want to use a real spring tank and don't intend to use the Accutronics reverb brick, you don't need the 78L05 regulator, or any other parts shown in that area on the back PCB.
Whelm
@jbid55

Do you mean the vactrol? You can find it at Small Bear, if so. I've just recently sourced all the parts. Got nearly all of it from Tayda with a few parts from Mouser and Small Bear.

EDIT: Oh, just looked at the BOM.

Yu can find those red-texted items very easily. 1N4001 is a common diode, here's a link to another one: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=y2kkmE52mdNtNRrsA1y lQg%3d%3d

You don't need to source the specific make and model in the BOM.

Mouser, while generally a huge PITA to navigate, is nice enough to also provide a link for alternatives next to each unavailable item in that BOM.
jbid55
indigoid wrote:
jbid55 wrote:
Can anyone help find suitable replacements for the obsolete parts in the BOM? I'm a bit stupid when it comes to circuit components and finding replacements.


which parts?

I built my Springs (two, thus far...) from stock I mostly already had lying around on the bench

All of the parts are jellybean things that shouldn't be obsolete anytime soon. If a manufacturer has ditched them, look at a different manufacturer. In fact, maybe stop looking at specific manufacturers entirely and just look at parts that match those key specs:

- basic component type (resistor, ceramic cap, film cap, etc)
- package type (eg. though-hole resistor with axial legs, capacitor with radial legs spaced 5mm apart, 3mm through-hole red LED, transistor in TO-92 package)
- for resistors: resistance
- for capacitors: capacitance + voltage rating
- for transistors: best to stick with what was specified (eg. 2n3904), as otherwise you can get trapped by non-matching pinouts

Also keep in mind that you don't need every part in the BOM. You only need the parts for the variant you want to build. Eg. if you want to use a real spring tank and don't intend to use the Accutronics reverb brick, you don't need the 78L05 regulator, or any other parts shown in that area on the back PCB.


Thanks thats super helpful! How important is tolerance? Because that's one thing I've been getting caught up on in terms of finding replacements for multiple builds.

For the Spring Reverb, this 22pF cap in particular had me stumped. I don't focus on brands at all, but when trying to find a similar specd part, I came up with nothing.

I found replacements for the following, but not 100% sure on those either:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=REA2R2M1JBK-0511Pvir tualkey21980000virtualkey140-REA2R2M1JBK0511P
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=DSF050J333virtualkey 59850000virtualkey598-DSF050J333
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=1N4001virtualkey5121 0000virtualkey512-1N4001

Whelm wrote:
@jbid55

Do you mean the vactrol? You can find it at Small Bear, if so. I've just recently sourced all the parts. Got nearly all of it from Tayda with a few parts from Mouser and Small Bear.

EDIT: Oh, just looked at the BOM.

Yu can find those red-texted items very easily. 1N4001 is a common diode, here's a link to another one: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=y2kkmE52mdNtNRrsA1y lQg%3d%3d

You don't need to source the specific make and model in the BOM.

Mouser, while generally a huge PITA to navigate, is nice enough to also provide a link for alternatives next to each unavailable item in that BOM.


Thanks! Yeah, those red texted posts are whats giving me trouble. I actually have the vactrol already which I bought ahead of time in a bulk shipment.
jbid55
So would these replacements work?

22pF Cap
Replacing this with any of these

2.2uF Cap
Replacing this with this


.033uF Cap
Replacing this with this
Whelm
jbid55 wrote:
So would these replacements work?

22pF Cap
Replacing this with any of these

2.2uF Cap
Replacing this with this


.033uF Cap
Replacing this with this


Yep. 50v is, I believe, the standard for ceramic disk capacitors, so you just need to make sure you're matching the value. This page is useful for that purpose: http://aisynthesis.com/capacitor-conversion/

For resistors, 1/4 watt metal film resistors with 1% tolerance are what you generally want, although I think some BOMs call for 1/8th watt (I'm not really sure if it would make much a difference though).
indigoid
For resistors I'd actually check the dimensions in the datasheet. Some 1/4 watt resistors are in surprisingly large packages. And even some of the 1/6 watt resistors I have here were a bit tight in spots on the Spring PCBs, though they did fit.

You can pretty much always get by with the wrong dimensions, but too much of that and things can look pretty ugly

Also recommend substantial care in installing the electrolytic caps on both PCBs — remember that the PCBs need to mate together and so you don't want them sticking up too far. I made this mistake on my first Spring build and had to fix it (heated the pads, pulled them up a bit, then laid them down flat against the PCB)
jbid55
Thanks again guys. Super helpful. Just ordered all the parts and I'm excited to start a new project.
atari5200
Just bumping this to see if anyone can confirm my module is functioning within spec- seems a little off to me but I'm not sure what to do about it.... However since it's using a vactrol I know some variation is expected so if this tracks with other user's experience I guess I'm good to go.

hmmm.....

Basically I get no reverb blend until 9:00. It works as expected after that point but that seems like an awfully large dead spot. Adjusting the trimmer doesn't really help with the blending as it starts distorting on the "wet" end before it makes any difference to the point where the reverb starts to blend in.
Whelm
atari5200 wrote:
Just bumping this to see if anyone can confirm my module is functioning within spec


I can't answer your question right now, but I hope to build my Reverb over the next few days, so I can report back if no one else chimes in by then (assuming I don't screw it up).
jbid55
jbid55 wrote:
So would these replacements work?


2.2uF Cap
Replacing this with this


bsmith wrote:
There's a 2.2uF electrolytic in the music thing bom - is this just a booboo? Not seeing where it would be used or any mention of it in any build documentation....


So apparently I didn't even need the 2.2uF cap? Can anyone else confirm? Went back and forth between the Mouser BOM, the BOM found in the document bundles, the schematics, and the Thonk build guide, and I can't find the discrepancy.

Other than that and overlooking it doesn't use the thonkiconn jacks I have on hand ( d'oh! ), the build went smoothly.
Whelm
Does anyone know where to source RCA jacks for this?

I thought I had ordered an alternative to the ones in the BOM, which are only available in groups of 500 (and like 3 months delivery time), but they're totally wrong. I can't find a suitable replacement on Mouser, Tayda, DigiKey, or Small Bear.

>.<
indigoid
Whelm wrote:
Does anyone know where to source RCA jacks for this?

I thought I had ordered an alternative to the ones in the BOM, which are only available in groups of 500 (and like 3 months delivery time), but they're totally wrong. I can't find a suitable replacement on Mouser, Tayda, DigiKey, or Small Bear.

>.<


panel or PCB mount?

I bought my panel-mount jacks locally

https://www.jaycar.com.au/red-gold-plated-rca-chassis-socket/p/PS0259

but I'm sure you can find these on aliexpress or ebay
Whelm
indigoid wrote:
Whelm wrote:
Does anyone know where to source RCA jacks for this?

I thought I had ordered an alternative to the ones in the BOM, which are only available in groups of 500 (and like 3 months delivery time), but they're totally wrong. I can't find a suitable replacement on Mouser, Tayda, DigiKey, or Small Bear.

>.<


panel or PCB mount?

I bought my panel-mount jacks locally

https://www.jaycar.com.au/red-gold-plated-rca-chassis-socket/p/PS0259

but I'm sure you can find these on aliexpress or ebay


I'm looking for PCB mount. The panel mounts are for mounting to the...panel... right? (I was told there's no such thing as stupid questions).


Aaaanyways, I think I found them. Mouser actually does stock them, but only the black ones. It's only the colored ones mentioned specifically in the BOM that are tricky.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kobiconn/16PJ092-E/?qs=%2fha2pyFad ujUtBDlBOtPtIIEfUSPXRZbnkr7uCuDOZg%3d

I'm not sure why I wasn't able to find these earlier. Stumbled across the link to that page on the data sheet for the unstocked red version. I think it might be because I had the filter set to 'straight' instead of '-'.

I just made a Mouser order, too. Dead Banana
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