Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Ver.1 General build thread

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flts
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Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Ver.1 General build thread

Post by flts » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:47 am

This is the general build thread for zthee's awesome Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Mini Meanie, ARP 2600 clone DIY project. Feel free to discuss anything related to building one. I'll occasionally try to gather any useful information & links to this first post. If you want me to add anything here, ping me.

Official sources of information: Useful threads at Muff's: Other useful references: What do I need to buy for building one?

This should be a close to complete list but may still be missing some bits and pieces. when in doubt, consult the BOM at http://thehumancomparator.net/TTSH/BOM.pdf or ask a question in the thread.
  • PCB + panel kit from zthee, available via official project site
  • Case: buy a steel case from zthee, build it yourself, or ask someone to build one. Several people here have expressed interest at building cases for others.
  • Mouser BOM: contains bulk of the components. There may be wait time on some of the components in case a lot of people are ordering at once and deplete Mouser stocks.
  • "Rare Parts": this includes a couple of transistors + transistor arrays, speaker amps, jacks and tempcos. You can source them yourself (eBay & specialist stores) or buy from Thonk: http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ttsh-rpk/ (jacks & tempcos individually: http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/pj301bm-3-5 ... ckets-x50/ + http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/tempco-resi ... 500ppm-x2/). You can also get the jacks from Erthenvar "locally" if you're in the US.
  • DC-DC converter and wall wart for power. +-15V, use your own linear power supply if you want. See BOM for rough power requirements and suggested parts.
  • Speakers: Peerless 3" full range 830986 - 1509
  • Reverb Tank: see BOM
  • Mounting Hardware and PCB connectors: see BOM
  • Power switch. It wasn't included in the original Mouser BOM at least. Possible options are Marquardt 1901, NKK CWT12AAS1 and others with the same mounting hole / footprint.
General build Q&A

How hard is it to build? "The TTSH is a [difficulty level] 7-8 because it's a big project. The circuitry ranges from dead easy (preamp) to fairly complex (oscillator boards), and everything in between. Component selection is also fairly straight forward, practically everything is standard stuff. It's the part where you'll have to get some parts yourself, and match a dozen transistors. And then there's the mechanical stuff, you'll have to attach the big board to a panel. It's not THAT difficult, but still it's a bit tricky. So I think it's like building a x0xb0x, but there's a few obstacles thrown into the course, plus the track is much longer." (zthee)

What tools do I need? "As with all projects you can manage with just the basics. But having an oscilloscope is always good help if something doesn't work." (zthee)

How long does it take to build? Your mileage may obviously vary but "(The beta builder Kroffe) estimates it to ~20h." (zthee)

How much will it cost me? It's a DIY project so exact estimate is impossible to make. It looks like the total cost of all parts (including PCB + panel, excluding case, tools and naturally your precious time) to build one might be somewhere around 1000 USD / 1000 EUR depending where you live.

Do I really need to match transistors? "Matching transistors isn't hard, so I'd recommend you to get down and dirty with it." "For the VCA I would recommend matching the transistors - Otherwise there will be a bit of a thump when the envelope hits it. In the first prototype I built I didn't match anything, and except for the thump in the VCA everything worked flawlessly. In the other prototypes I built I've matched them, and I can't tell the difference with the rest of the stuff but the thump is gone." (zthee) "you could probably even get away without matching, just by using transistors from the same batch. modern manufacturing tolerances are far tighter than back in the 70s..." (roglok)

How can I control it? Use the voltage, Luke! You can also employ a MIDI to CV converter to hook up a keyboard / other control source. Just bear in mind the ADSRs require +10V triggers, everything else is OK with 0-5V. Kenton Pro Solo II is confirmed to work fine by zthee. If you want to integrate a MIDI interface to your build, look into projects such as the Oakley MidiDAC, MidiImplant or HexInverter MIDI2CV.

The VCO subboards contain SMD caps, I'm scared! Here's a quick video guide on how to easily solder SMD capacitors with normal soldering iron and a pair of tweezers: http://www.cs80.com/crowbx/SMTSolder.mp4 ... Several people on this thread have succeeded with no problems with that method. Or use a dedicated SMD hot air soldering station if you have one, probably not worth buying just for six SMD caps.

I built VCO2/VCO3 and they don't work as VCO1 does! You will need to apply +15V to the equivalent place in VCO2 and VCO3 when testing them as well, otherwise you'll end up with a very low frequency waveform at outputs.

Component discussion & known issues

Please also look at official build docs and DSL-man's list of known issues with fix suggestions: http://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+known+issues

There are news of new PCB revisions coming (as of July 2014) - just in case there are going to be new ones, these fixes apply directly the first revision black PCB.

POWER SUPPLY POLARITY IS REVERSED ON PCB, SEE OFFICIAL BUILD DOCS! What's + is - and - is +. Crossing the beads will fix this issue. Always consult the build docs, this is not a conclusive list of what must be changed.

Help! I completed the build and some of my slider LEDs are dim / off! due to the uneven length of the LED chains there is only one dimmer setting possible, where all are equally bright (Nordcore). The unlabeled trimmer hole for LED brightness is found in the far left side of the panel between envelope follower input jacks. Adjust the trimmer with a small screwdriver so that you get even brightness on all LEDs. Also make sure you've hooked up power to all the submodules (including speaker amplifiers) because otherwise some of the LEDs may simply not get power at all.

Clock / clock LED bleed most builders have issues to some degree with either the clock LED driver or the clock circuit itself causing audible modulation in VCO pitch due to non-constant current use. See DSL-man's wiki page above and check out the thread for suggestions.

Noise bleeding to one of the speakers several builders have had issues with the noise from the noise circuit bleeding to one of the speakers. This can be mitigated at least by using a shielded wire in the speaker amp <-> headphone wiring, and tying the shield braid to the headphone output jack's ground pin. Correct routing of the cable will minimize the noise amount as well - experiment with running the cable further from the noise gen.

Wrong capacitor polarity in RINGMOD section reverse C20 in RINGMOD section from what it is in the silkscreen (see DSL-man's page above). The silkscreen shows it wrong way around, the two electrolytics are supposed to form a bipolar cap type pair for the AC input of ring mod.

Prototype power requirement: "If the speakers are off and the LEDs are on, the draw is about V+ 300mA, V- 250mA. Once the speakers start pumping I'm expecting it to go up quite a bit. (...) If you're not using the LEDs or the speakers I guess the whole thing will run on much much less." (zthee)

2N3954/58 footprint on the PCB is TO-71 (zthee)

Sliders: "If you're using any other slider than the PTL it has to be dual. I've got an old ALPS slider (no LED) at home which fit nice, but it's dual. Don't have the parts number for it though!" (zthee)

Possible Slider replacement: Alpha RA4545F series. Center detent but that is apparently really easy to change. Mouser has B100K in stock in several colours. Mouser code 312-4545-R100K, Alpha code RA4545F-20A-15LC-B100k-C. (diablojoy)

The TDA2030 can be replaced with LM1875 (zthee)

There are 30pF and 50pF cap values marked on the PCB. Just use 33pF and 47pF for those.

Additional jacks: The Panel needs 5 additional jacks for multiples, they are not listed in BOM. (LED-man)

Speaker mounting Since the speaker cones protrude the speaker body, you'll need standoffs or some kind of mounting gaskets to mount the speakers some mm away from the panel. There are some options discussed in the thread.

Speaker amps The speaker amp power is tapped directly from the input voltage before the DC-DC converter. The TDA chips should (and is reported to) run fine on pretty much anything from 12 to 30+ V (see datasheet) in case you are using something else than a 12V DC wall wart to power the thing.

Connectors"There are no 3 pin female MTA connectors on the BOM [if you aren't using ready-made power distribution cables, you'll need them] and you will also need a couple RCA cables [for the spring reverb]." (tojpeters).

Cap types / substitutions"the 10nF in the 4027 submodule was a ceramic disc in the original. the only critical cap in the VCO is the 680p.

the four 10nF in the ladder filter should be quality caps, though. polypropylene, polystyrene or C0G/NP0... i think zthee listed C0G/NP0 for some values because they aren't that much more expensive and to keep the BOM simple..." (roglok)

(Sorry for any missing attributions, I suck)
Last edited by flts on Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:59 am, edited 23 times in total.
Warm thank you to everyone for the past 10 years. I'm not active here anymore for personal reasons, so for those I've had the pleasure of dealing with please send an e-mail instead of PM if you wish to get in touch.

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satindas
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Post by satindas » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:50 am

Ok I'll go first :roll:

I noticed that aside from the obvious price difference, the PXD3024WD15 gives a max of 1A per rail whereas the AEE00CC18-L gives a max of just 0.5A. zthee, if you're checking this thread, what is the maximum current draw of the TTSH ?? i.e. do I need the 1A converter to power the intended, integral oakley midiDAC (+40mA and -30mA), ( and possibly a few other goodies :razz: )? Cheers!
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Post by plord » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:56 pm

Some excerpts from the gigantor thread that may be useful. I TOTALLY NEGLECTED TO SAVE THE ATTRIBUTIONS FOR THESE ANSWERS BUT ALL CREDIT GOES TO OTHER WIGGLERS, AND I, SPECIFICALLY, SUCK.

Q: which footprint did you use for the 2N3954/58
A: Zthee says: TO-71


Possible Slider replacement:
there is a single Alpha 45mm LED slider that matches the footprint and pin
out of the bourns PTL, actually they look almost identical manufacture just
different colourI think it is Alpha RVA series from memory and i have only
ever managed to get them in center detent but that is really easy to
change
edit : ok its Alpha RA4545F series
mouser only stocks linear it seems, lots of B100K in red, green and amber in stock anyway:
mouser code 312-4545-R100K
alpha code RA4545F-20A-15LC-B100k-C


Comprehensive sourcing list, to build the TTSH you must have:
"Rare Parts" (Thonk or self-sourced)
Mouser BOM
Wall Wart
Speakers
Reverb Tank
DC-DC converter
Mounting Hardware

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Monobass
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Post by Monobass » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:43 pm

Here are the TTSH parts I'm selling on Thonk that you can't get from Mouser

Jacks - http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/pj301bm-3-5 ... ckets-x50/

Image

1.87K Tempco - http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/tempco-resi ... 500ppm-x2/

Image

'Rare' parts kit - http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ttsh-rare-parts/

Image

which contains everything marked 'eBay' on the BOM.

3x CA3046
3x 2N4125
6x 2N5459
1x 2N3954
2x 2N3958
1x 2N4870
2x TDA2030

I also sell 2 pin and 3 pin MTA assemblies, although they're not long enough to satisfy all of the required ones for the TTSH.

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/mta100-wire-assembly/

Image
Last edited by Monobass on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by minisystem » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:51 pm

Prices for the "ebay" parts seem to be all over the map. A search for 2N4870 turns up anywhere from about $5 a piece to $0.99 a piece. Littlediode has a 2N5459 listing for £3.59 a piece. Is it more sensible to wait for the thonk rare parts package?

I managed to find both 2N4870 and 2N5459 at a local surplus shop. Hopefully they're real!

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Post by nyd » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:46 pm

MonoBass, you should start offering these kits now if you dont want to lose out, since so many already placed their mouser orders its a constant nag to know that theres stuff missing so at least I am looking around for options to get it all in the mail before christmas so I can sped the holidays thinking of soething more relaxing than sourcing obsolete parts :hyper:

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Post by Monobass » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:52 pm

heheh
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Post by LED-man » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:54 pm

Is the 2200uF electrolyt correct in the BOM ?

Have found them in BOM and in schematic for speaker amplifier TDA-C6
On zthees pictures i cant see this big cap ( 5cm high)
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Post by diablojoy » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:02 pm

Possible Slider replacement:
there is a single Alpha 45mm LED slider that matches the footprint and pin
out of the bourns PTL, actually they look almost identical manufacture just
different colourI think it is Alpha RVA series from memory and i have only
ever managed to get them in center detent but that is really easy to
change
edit : ok its Alpha RA4545F series
mouser only stocks linear it seems, lots of B100K in red, green and amber in stock anyway:
mouser code 312-4545-R100K
alpha code RA4545F-20A-15LC-B100k-C
I did a direct comparison having both Alpha and bourns versions on hand
to convert the alpha's if they are center detent to non center detent simply unbend the tabs and pop the back off drop out the tiny ball and associated spring from the side of the lever carefully reassemble and carefully rebend the tabs, takes about a minute , changing out the LED for another colour is even easier
they simply pull out with a pair of needle nose pliers. LED is a 3 x 2 x 4mm rectangular , you will have to trim the leads to length though, simply copy the length of the original and push that sucker in there make sure you get the orientation right , mine are now all pink :lol:

UTsource appear to have all the rare parts in stock at the moment
It probably wont happen today but if it does it definitely wont go smoothly.

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Post by limpmeat » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:47 pm

I just ordered all the rare parts from UTsource (excluding ca3046 and tda2030) The total was $34USD shipped to Aus.

Hopefully they are all the right package/case type. Has Zthee released this info> it's not on the BOM.

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Post by LED-man » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 pm

limpmeat wrote:I just ordered all the rare parts from UTsource (excluding ca3046 and tda2030) The total was $34USD shipped to Aus.

Hopefully they are all the right package/case type. Has Zthee released this info> it's not on the BOM.


Maybe you have 1-2working parts good luck.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-st ... -fake.html
Last edited by LED-man on Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by decaying.sine » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:21 pm

diablojoy wrote:mine are now all pink
You are now my hero!
Brian
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Post by raisinbag » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:30 pm

decaying.sine wrote:
diablojoy wrote:mine are now all pink
You are now my hero!
Brian, need I say more! :fap:

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decaying.sine
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Post by decaying.sine » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:33 pm

raisinbag wrote:
decaying.sine wrote:
diablojoy wrote:mine are now all pink
You are now my hero!
Brian, need I say more! :fap:
Yeah. I am on this. sduck had mentioned it wasn't too hard either. but, he's fuckin' sduck.
Brian
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Post by diablojoy » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:00 pm

raisinbag wrote:
decaying.sine wrote:
diablojoy wrote:
mine are now all pink


You are now my hero!


Brian, need I say more!
:lol: anyway i take it.
It probably wont happen today but if it does it definitely wont go smoothly.

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ADSR errors ?

Post by gddfp » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:09 pm

Noticed a few oddities in the ADSR/AR schematic of the TTSH.

At the inverting input [2] of A1, the resistor going to GND [ADSR-R7] is 33k, whilst this is 10k in the original.
The same resistor for the AR section [R176] is correct: 10k.

Note that these two resistors have been added later as per the original Service Manual Corrections...


In the ADSR section, the resistor going to GND [ADSR-R19] at the Base of Q7, is 68k. In the original this is 180k.


--- Don't know if this is intentionally, or just a hiccup ?

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SMD Caps in BOM

Post by gddfp » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:14 pm

In the BOM, the SMD caps (6x) are listed as 100nF, but the Mouser # [77-VJ0805Y103JXXPBC] is for 10nF caps...

Is the value correct (100n), or the Mouser # ?

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Post by elmegil » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:44 pm

I think the SMDs are bypass caps, in which case it shouldn't be terribly critical.

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Post by Altitude909 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:24 pm

Seeing that all the tempcos are sold out at thonk and synthcube, I sent a RFQ to PRC in Florida (Precision Resistor Co, my go to place for these) so if anyone stateside needs some, drop me a line

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Post by synthcube » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:49 pm

We're not sold out... Adjusting inventory levels in the store to reflect stock.
BTW, glad to see thonk selling the rare parts stuff. We offered early on to package up a full kit like we did for the Klee, but in this case, no luck!

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Post by limpmeat » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:51 pm

LED-man wrote:
limpmeat wrote:I just ordered all the rare parts from UTsource (excluding ca3046 and tda2030) The total was $34USD shipped to Aus.

Hopefully they are all the right package/case type. Has Zthee released this info> it's not on the BOM.

The little guys from asia..
Maybe you have 1-2workung parts good luck.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-st ... -fake.html
Yes that scary place called "asia". Like anyone would buy electronics stuff from there... :hmm:

We'll wait and see, I've had no problem with them in the past.

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Post by elmegil » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:16 am

That would have been one hella kit.

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Post by decaying.sine » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:24 am

The UTSource ICs are generally fine. I just treat every older IC or semi that I get as if it is a bad part until it proves to me otherwise by my own examination and research or poor performance.

Did anyone get a glimpse of the TDA2030 footprint on the PCB? I Thought I saw a pic with heat sinks, but now I can't find it.
Brian
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Post by gddfp » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:39 am

decaying.sine wrote:Did anyone get a glimpse of the TDA2030 footprint on the PCB? I Thought I saw a pic with heat sinks, but now I can't find it.
The first pic had the 2030's and heat sinks mounted horizontally, with the sinks protruding from the edges of the board. Later pics (proto 2) showed them with a vertical footprint, where the back of the sink (probably) aligns with the PCB edge.

Just a regular 5-pin footprint (two rows of 3 pins and 2 pins offset).

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Post by decaying.sine » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:47 am

gddfp wrote:
decaying.sine wrote:Did anyone get a glimpse of the TDA2030 footprint on the PCB? I Thought I saw a pic with heat sinks, but now I can't find it.
The first pic had the 2030's and heat sinks mounted horizontally, with the sinks protruding from the edges of the board. Later pics (proto 2) showed them with a vertical footprint, where the back of the sink (probably) aligns with the PCB edge.

Just a regular 5-pin footprint (two rows of 3 pins and 2 pins offset).
Thanks gddfp. That is just the type of description I wanted.
Brian
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