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Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Ver.1 General build thread
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Author Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Ver.1 General build thread
flts
This is the general build thread for zthee's awesome Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Mini Meanie, ARP 2600 clone DIY project. Feel free to discuss anything related to building one. I'll occasionally try to gather any useful information & links to this first post. If you want me to add anything here, ping me.

Official sources of information:

Useful threads at Muff's:

Other useful references:


What do I need to buy for building one?

This should be a close to complete list but may still be missing some bits and pieces. when in doubt, consult the BOM at http://thehumancomparator.net/TTSH/BOM.pdf or ask a question in the thread.
  • PCB + panel kit from zthee, available via official project site
  • Case: buy a steel case from zthee, build it yourself, or ask someone to build one. Several people here have expressed interest at building cases for others.
  • Mouser BOM: contains bulk of the components. There may be wait time on some of the components in case a lot of people are ordering at once and deplete Mouser stocks.
  • "Rare Parts": this includes a couple of transistors + transistor arrays, speaker amps, jacks and tempcos. You can source them yourself (eBay & specialist stores) or buy from Thonk: http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ttsh-rpk/ (jacks & tempcos individually: http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/pj301bm-3-5mm-jack-sockets-x50/ + http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/tempco-resistor-krl-bantry-3500ppm-x2/). You can also get the jacks from Erthenvar "locally" if you're in the US.
  • DC-DC converter and wall wart for power. +-15V, use your own linear power supply if you want. See BOM for rough power requirements and suggested parts.
  • Speakers: Peerless 3" full range 830986 - 1509
  • Reverb Tank: see BOM
  • Mounting Hardware and PCB connectors: see BOM
  • Power switch. It wasn't included in the original Mouser BOM at least. Possible options are Marquardt 1901, NKK CWT12AAS1 and others with the same mounting hole / footprint.


General build Q&A

How hard is it to build? "The TTSH is a [difficulty level] 7-8 because it's a big project. The circuitry ranges from dead easy (preamp) to fairly complex (oscillator boards), and everything in between. Component selection is also fairly straight forward, practically everything is standard stuff. It's the part where you'll have to get some parts yourself, and match a dozen transistors. And then there's the mechanical stuff, you'll have to attach the big board to a panel. It's not THAT difficult, but still it's a bit tricky. So I think it's like building a x0xb0x, but there's a few obstacles thrown into the course, plus the track is much longer." (zthee)

What tools do I need? "As with all projects you can manage with just the basics. But having an oscilloscope is always good help if something doesn't work." (zthee)

How long does it take to build? Your mileage may obviously vary but "(The beta builder Kroffe) estimates it to ~20h." (zthee)

How much will it cost me? It's a DIY project so exact estimate is impossible to make. It looks like the total cost of all parts (including PCB + panel, excluding case, tools and naturally your precious time) to build one might be somewhere around 1000 USD / 1000 EUR depending where you live.

Do I really need to match transistors? "Matching transistors isn't hard, so I'd recommend you to get down and dirty with it." "For the VCA I would recommend matching the transistors - Otherwise there will be a bit of a thump when the envelope hits it. In the first prototype I built I didn't match anything, and except for the thump in the VCA everything worked flawlessly. In the other prototypes I built I've matched them, and I can't tell the difference with the rest of the stuff but the thump is gone." (zthee) "you could probably even get away without matching, just by using transistors from the same batch. modern manufacturing tolerances are far tighter than back in the 70s..." (roglok)

How can I control it? Use the voltage, Luke! You can also employ a MIDI to CV converter to hook up a keyboard / other control source. Just bear in mind the ADSRs require +10V triggers, everything else is OK with 0-5V. Kenton Pro Solo II is confirmed to work fine by zthee. If you want to integrate a MIDI interface to your build, look into projects such as the Oakley MidiDAC, MidiImplant or HexInverter MIDI2CV.

The VCO subboards contain SMD caps, I'm scared! Here's a quick video guide on how to easily solder SMD capacitors with normal soldering iron and a pair of tweezers: http://www.cs80.com/crowbx/SMTSolder.mp4 ... Several people on this thread have succeeded with no problems with that method. Or use a dedicated SMD hot air soldering station if you have one, probably not worth buying just for six SMD caps.

I built VCO2/VCO3 and they don't work as VCO1 does! You will need to apply +15V to the equivalent place in VCO2 and VCO3 when testing them as well, otherwise you'll end up with a very low frequency waveform at outputs.

Component discussion & known issues

Please also look at official build docs and DSL-man's list of known issues with fix suggestions: http://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+known+issues

There are news of new PCB revisions coming (as of July 2014) - just in case there are going to be new ones, these fixes apply directly the first revision black PCB.

POWER SUPPLY POLARITY IS REVERSED ON PCB, SEE OFFICIAL BUILD DOCS! What's + is - and - is +. Crossing the beads will fix this issue. Always consult the build docs, this is not a conclusive list of what must be changed.

Help! I completed the build and some of my slider LEDs are dim / off! due to the uneven length of the LED chains there is only one dimmer setting possible, where all are equally bright (Nordcore). The unlabeled trimmer hole for LED brightness is found in the far left side of the panel between envelope follower input jacks. Adjust the trimmer with a small screwdriver so that you get even brightness on all LEDs. Also make sure you've hooked up power to all the submodules (including speaker amplifiers) because otherwise some of the LEDs may simply not get power at all.

Clock / clock LED bleed most builders have issues to some degree with either the clock LED driver or the clock circuit itself causing audible modulation in VCO pitch due to non-constant current use. See DSL-man's wiki page above and check out the thread for suggestions.

Noise bleeding to one of the speakers several builders have had issues with the noise from the noise circuit bleeding to one of the speakers. This can be mitigated at least by using a shielded wire in the speaker amp <-> headphone wiring, and tying the shield braid to the headphone output jack's ground pin. Correct routing of the cable will minimize the noise amount as well - experiment with running the cable further from the noise gen.

Wrong capacitor polarity in RINGMOD section reverse C20 in RINGMOD section from what it is in the silkscreen (see DSL-man's page above). The silkscreen shows it wrong way around, the two electrolytics are supposed to form a bipolar cap type pair for the AC input of ring mod.

Prototype power requirement: "If the speakers are off and the LEDs are on, the draw is about V+ 300mA, V- 250mA. Once the speakers start pumping I'm expecting it to go up quite a bit. (...) If you're not using the LEDs or the speakers I guess the whole thing will run on much much less." (zthee)

2N3954/58 footprint on the PCB is TO-71 (zthee)

Sliders: "If you're using any other slider than the PTL it has to be dual. I've got an old ALPS slider (no LED) at home which fit nice, but it's dual. Don't have the parts number for it though!" (zthee)

Possible Slider replacement: Alpha RA4545F series. Center detent but that is apparently really easy to change. Mouser has B100K in stock in several colours. Mouser code 312-4545-R100K, Alpha code RA4545F-20A-15LC-B100k-C. (diablojoy)

The TDA2030 can be replaced with LM1875 (zthee)

There are 30pF and 50pF cap values marked on the PCB. Just use 33pF and 47pF for those.

Additional jacks: The Panel needs 5 additional jacks for multiples, they are not listed in BOM. (LED-man)

Speaker mounting Since the speaker cones protrude the speaker body, you'll need standoffs or some kind of mounting gaskets to mount the speakers some mm away from the panel. There are some options discussed in the thread.

Speaker amps The speaker amp power is tapped directly from the input voltage before the DC-DC converter. The TDA chips should (and is reported to) run fine on pretty much anything from 12 to 30+ V (see datasheet) in case you are using something else than a 12V DC wall wart to power the thing.

Connectors"There are no 3 pin female MTA connectors on the BOM [if you aren't using ready-made power distribution cables, you'll need them] and you will also need a couple RCA cables [for the spring reverb]." (tojpeters).

Cap types / substitutions"the 10nF in the 4027 submodule was a ceramic disc in the original. the only critical cap in the VCO is the 680p.

the four 10nF in the ladder filter should be quality caps, though. polypropylene, polystyrene or C0G/NP0... i think zthee listed C0G/NP0 for some values because they aren't that much more expensive and to keep the BOM simple..." (roglok)

(Sorry for any missing attributions, I suck)
satindas
Ok I'll go first meh

I noticed that aside from the obvious price difference, the PXD3024WD15 gives a max of 1A per rail whereas the AEE00CC18-L gives a max of just 0.5A. zthee, if you're checking this thread, what is the maximum current draw of the TTSH ?? i.e. do I need the 1A converter to power the intended, integral oakley midiDAC (+40mA and -30mA), ( and possibly a few other goodies razz )? Cheers!
plord
Some excerpts from the gigantor thread that may be useful. I TOTALLY NEGLECTED TO SAVE THE ATTRIBUTIONS FOR THESE ANSWERS BUT ALL CREDIT GOES TO OTHER WIGGLERS, AND I, SPECIFICALLY, SUCK.

Q: which footprint did you use for the 2N3954/58
A: Zthee says: TO-71


Possible Slider replacement:
there is a single Alpha 45mm LED slider that matches the footprint and pin
out of the bourns PTL, actually they look almost identical manufacture just
different colourI think it is Alpha RVA series from memory and i have only
ever managed to get them in center detent but that is really easy to
change
edit : ok its Alpha RA4545F series
mouser only stocks linear it seems, lots of B100K in red, green and amber in stock anyway:
mouser code 312-4545-R100K
alpha code RA4545F-20A-15LC-B100k-C


Comprehensive sourcing list, to build the TTSH you must have:
"Rare Parts" (Thonk or self-sourced)
Mouser BOM
Wall Wart
Speakers
Reverb Tank
DC-DC converter
Mounting Hardware
Monobass
Here are the TTSH parts I'm selling on Thonk that you can't get from Mouser

Jacks - http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/pj301bm-3-5mm-jack-sockets-x50/



1.87K Tempco - http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/tempco-resistor-krl-bantry-3500ppm-x2/



'Rare' parts kit - http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ttsh-rare-parts/

[url=http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ttsh-rare-parts/
][/url]

which contains everything marked 'eBay' on the BOM.

3x CA3046
3x 2N4125
6x 2N5459
1x 2N3954
2x 2N3958
1x 2N4870
2x TDA2030

I also sell 2 pin and 3 pin MTA assemblies, although they're not long enough to satisfy all of the required ones for the TTSH.

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/mta100-wire-assembly/

minisystem
Prices for the "ebay" parts seem to be all over the map. A search for 2N4870 turns up anywhere from about $5 a piece to $0.99 a piece. Littlediode has a 2N5459 listing for £3.59 a piece. Is it more sensible to wait for the thonk rare parts package?

I managed to find both 2N4870 and 2N5459 at a local surplus shop. Hopefully they're real!
nyd
MonoBass, you should start offering these kits now if you dont want to lose out, since so many already placed their mouser orders its a constant nag to know that theres stuff missing so at least I am looking around for options to get it all in the mail before christmas so I can sped the holidays thinking of soething more relaxing than sourcing obsolete parts hyper
Monobass
heheh
LED-man
Is the 2200uF electrolyt correct in the BOM ?

Have found them in BOM and in schematic for speaker amplifier TDA-C6
On zthees pictures i cant see this big cap ( 5cm high)
diablojoy
Quote:
Possible Slider replacement:
there is a single Alpha 45mm LED slider that matches the footprint and pin
out of the bourns PTL, actually they look almost identical manufacture just
different colourI think it is Alpha RVA series from memory and i have only
ever managed to get them in center detent but that is really easy to
change
edit : ok its Alpha RA4545F series
mouser only stocks linear it seems, lots of B100K in red, green and amber in stock anyway:
mouser code 312-4545-R100K
alpha code RA4545F-20A-15LC-B100k-C


I did a direct comparison having both Alpha and bourns versions on hand
to convert the alpha's if they are center detent to non center detent simply unbend the tabs and pop the back off drop out the tiny ball and associated spring from the side of the lever carefully reassemble and carefully rebend the tabs, takes about a minute , changing out the LED for another colour is even easier
they simply pull out with a pair of needle nose pliers. LED is a 3 x 2 x 4mm rectangular , you will have to trim the leads to length though, simply copy the length of the original and push that sucker in there make sure you get the orientation right , mine are now all pink lol

UTsource appear to have all the rare parts in stock at the moment
limpmeat
I just ordered all the rare parts from UTsource (excluding ca3046 and tda2030) The total was $34USD shipped to Aus.

Hopefully they are all the right package/case type. Has Zthee released this info> it's not on the BOM.
LED-man
limpmeat wrote:
I just ordered all the rare parts from UTsource (excluding ca3046 and tda2030) The total was $34USD shipped to Aus.

Hopefully they are all the right package/case type. Has Zthee released this info> it's not on the BOM.




Maybe you have 1-2working parts good luck.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/217552-utsource-fake.html
decaying.sine
diablojoy wrote:
mine are now all pink


You are now my hero!
raisinbag
decaying.sine wrote:
diablojoy wrote:
mine are now all pink


You are now my hero!


Brian, need I say more! fap fap fap...
decaying.sine
raisinbag wrote:
decaying.sine wrote:
diablojoy wrote:
mine are now all pink


You are now my hero!


Brian, need I say more! fap fap fap...


Yeah. I am on this. sduck had mentioned it wasn't too hard either. but, he's fuckin' sduck.
diablojoy
Quote:
raisinbag wrote:
decaying.sine wrote:
diablojoy wrote:
mine are now all pink


You are now my hero!


Brian, need I say more!


lol anyway i take it.
gddfp
Noticed a few oddities in the ADSR/AR schematic of the TTSH.

At the inverting input [2] of A1, the resistor going to GND [ADSR-R7] is 33k, whilst this is 10k in the original.
The same resistor for the AR section [R176] is correct: 10k.

Note that these two resistors have been added later as per the original Service Manual Corrections...


In the ADSR section, the resistor going to GND [ADSR-R19] at the Base of Q7, is 68k. In the original this is 180k.


--- Don't know if this is intentionally, or just a hiccup ?
gddfp
In the BOM, the SMD caps (6x) are listed as 100nF, but the Mouser # [77-VJ0805Y103JXXPBC] is for 10nF caps...

Is the value correct (100n), or the Mouser # ?
elmegil
I think the SMDs are bypass caps, in which case it shouldn't be terribly critical.
Altitude909
Seeing that all the tempcos are sold out at thonk and synthcube, I sent a RFQ to PRC in Florida (Precision Resistor Co, my go to place for these) so if anyone stateside needs some, drop me a line
synthcube
We're not sold out... Adjusting inventory levels in the store to reflect stock.
BTW, glad to see thonk selling the rare parts stuff. We offered early on to package up a full kit like we did for the Klee, but in this case, no luck!
limpmeat
LED-man wrote:
limpmeat wrote:
I just ordered all the rare parts from UTsource (excluding ca3046 and tda2030) The total was $34USD shipped to Aus.

Hopefully they are all the right package/case type. Has Zthee released this info> it's not on the BOM.



The little guys from asia..
Maybe you have 1-2workung parts good luck.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/217552-utsource-fake.html


Yes that scary place called "asia". Like anyone would buy electronics stuff from there... hmmm.....

We'll wait and see, I've had no problem with them in the past.
elmegil
That would have been one hella kit.
decaying.sine
The UTSource ICs are generally fine. I just treat every older IC or semi that I get as if it is a bad part until it proves to me otherwise by my own examination and research or poor performance.

Did anyone get a glimpse of the TDA2030 footprint on the PCB? I Thought I saw a pic with heat sinks, but now I can't find it.
gddfp
decaying.sine wrote:
Did anyone get a glimpse of the TDA2030 footprint on the PCB? I Thought I saw a pic with heat sinks, but now I can't find it.

The first pic had the 2030's and heat sinks mounted horizontally, with the sinks protruding from the edges of the board. Later pics (proto 2) showed them with a vertical footprint, where the back of the sink (probably) aligns with the PCB edge.

Just a regular 5-pin footprint (two rows of 3 pins and 2 pins offset).
decaying.sine
gddfp wrote:
decaying.sine wrote:
Did anyone get a glimpse of the TDA2030 footprint on the PCB? I Thought I saw a pic with heat sinks, but now I can't find it.

The first pic had the 2030's and heat sinks mounted horizontally, with the sinks protruding from the edges of the board. Later pics (proto 2) showed them with a vertical footprint, where the back of the sink (probably) aligns with the PCB edge.

Just a regular 5-pin footprint (two rows of 3 pins and 2 pins offset).


Thanks gddfp. That is just the type of description I wanted.
gddfp
decaying.sine wrote:
gddfp wrote:
decaying.sine wrote:
Did anyone get a glimpse of the TDA2030 footprint on the PCB? I Thought I saw a pic with heat sinks, but now I can't find it.

The first pic had the 2030's and heat sinks mounted horizontally, with the sinks protruding from the edges of the board. Later pics (proto 2) showed them with a vertical footprint, where the back of the sink (probably) aligns with the PCB edge.

Just a regular 5-pin footprint (two rows of 3 pins and 2 pins offset).


Thanks gddfp. That is just the type of description I wanted.

This, of course, is information I gathered from looking at the pics published so far... No real board in front of me [duh], so your- and my mileage may vary. eek!
decaying.sine
gddfp wrote:
decaying.sine wrote:
gddfp wrote:
decaying.sine wrote:
Did anyone get a glimpse of the TDA2030 footprint on the PCB? I Thought I saw a pic with heat sinks, but now I can't find it.

The first pic had the 2030's and heat sinks mounted horizontally, with the sinks protruding from the edges of the board. Later pics (proto 2) showed them with a vertical footprint, where the back of the sink (probably) aligns with the PCB edge.

Just a regular 5-pin footprint (two rows of 3 pins and 2 pins offset).


Thanks gddfp. That is just the type of description I wanted.

This, of course, is information I gathered from looking at the pics published so far... No real board in front of me [duh], so your- and my mileage may vary. eek!


As in all things internet. I take it as gospel hihi
flts
plord wrote:
Some excerpts from the gigantor thread that may be useful. I TOTALLY NEGLECTED TO SAVE THE ATTRIBUTIONS FOR THESE ANSWERS BUT ALL CREDIT GOES TO OTHER WIGGLERS, AND I, SPECIFICALLY, SUCK.


Thanks! I shortened and added the information to the first post, still haven't managed to go through all the old posts and gather info myself. I'll have to add a "I, SPECIFICALLY, SUCK" disclaimer to that one as well. lol
roglok
here's a hint for those (europeans?) having trouble sourcing the Peerless speakers (or not willing to shell out for a pair of speakers):

check out the 3.3" broadband range of german manufacturer Visaton

i just ordered a pair of magnetically shielded F8SC for ~€10 each. those are not high-end, but supposedly decent speakers. should be a bang for the buck type of deal. i've compared the hole arrangement - they should be drop-in replacements.
gddfp
roglok wrote:
here's a hint for those (europeans?) having trouble sourcing the Peerless speakers (or not willing to shell out for a pair of speakers):

check out the 3.3" broadband range of german manufacturer Visaton

i just ordered a pair of magnetically shielded F8SC for ~€10 each. those are not high-end, but supposedly decent speakers. should be a bang for the buck type of deal. i've compared the hole arrangement - they should be drop-in replacements.

Hey Roglok, thanks for the pointer !
On the Visaton site, the price for the F 8 SC 8ohm seems to be 13.34 € /p. Did you find them somewhere else cheaper ?

And also, where did you get the technical drawing for the TTSH, with mounting holes et all ?

cheers,
_g
roglok
gddfp wrote:

On the Visaton site, the price for the F 8 SC 8ohm seems to be 13.34 € /p. Did you find them somewhere else cheaper ?

yes, Reichelt.

Quote:

And also, where did you get the technical drawing for the TTSH, with mounting holes et all ?


http://www.tymphany.com/files/PLS-P830986%20Rev3_0.pdf
plus ye olde pythagoras hihi
flts
satindas wrote:
I noticed that aside from the obvious price difference, the PXD3024WD15 gives a max of 1A per rail whereas the AEE00CC18-L gives a max of just 0.5A. zthee, if you're checking this thread, what is the maximum current draw of the TTSH ?? i.e. do I need the 1A converter to power the intended, integral oakley midiDAC (+40mA and -30mA), ( and possibly a few other goodies razz )? Cheers!


Just updated the first post with some bits of extra info from the original thread... Looks like zthee's estimate / measurement with the final prototype was around 300mA per rail with the speakers (at a normal volume) and LED sliders installed - quite possibly more with the speakers at full blast.

Based on that, you might still be able to power a midiDAC from the 0.5 amp per rail supply but that might also be stretching it. Again, don't take this as a gospel, but it looks like there's not that much room for powering extras with the smaller DC-DC.
Monobass
Altitude909 wrote:
Seeing that all the tempcos are sold out at thonk and synthcube, I sent a RFQ to PRC in Florida (Precision Resistor Co, my go to place for these) so if anyone stateside needs some, drop me a line


whut?? they're very in stock, I have hundreds and have for months.

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/tempco-resistor-krl-bantry-3500ppm-x2/
Monobass
diablojoy wrote:
mine are now all pink lol


I was looking for some pink 3x2x4 recently... where did you get them?
flts
Monobass wrote:
Altitude909 wrote:
Seeing that all the tempcos are sold out at thonk and synthcube, I sent a RFQ to PRC in Florida (Precision Resistor Co, my go to place for these) so if anyone stateside needs some, drop me a line


whut?? they're very in stock, I have hundreds and have for months.

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/tempco-resistor-krl-bantry-3500ppm-x2/


FWIW, I just tried adding 4 of those to cart and it says "value must be less than or equal to 3 (qty)" which kind of hints there's either some kind of ordering restriction or the web store thinks there are only 3 pieces left in stock.
Monobass
oops, my bug, fixed thumbs up
reggiechacha
satindas wrote:
Ok I'll go first meh

I noticed that aside from the obvious price difference, the PXD3024WD15 gives a max of 1A per rail whereas the AEE00CC18-L gives a max of just 0.5A. zthee, if you're checking this thread, what is the maximum current draw of the TTSH ?? i.e. do I need the 1A converter to power the intended, integral oakley midiDAC (+40mA and -30mA), ( and possibly a few other goodies razz )? Cheers!


I was wondering about this also. I found this DC-DC converter which gives 1A and is cheaper than the one in the BOM.
http://uk.farnell.com/xp-power/jtl3024d15/converter-dc-dc-30w-15v/dp/1 738272
Looks to be like for like but not sure if the pin placement is standard.
satindas
reggiechacha wrote:
satindas wrote:
Ok I'll go first meh

I noticed that aside from the obvious price difference, the PXD3024WD15 gives a max of 1A per rail whereas the AEE00CC18-L gives a max of just 0.5A. zthee, if you're checking this thread, what is the maximum current draw of the TTSH ?? i.e. do I need the 1A converter to power the intended, integral oakley midiDAC (+40mA and -30mA), ( and possibly a few other goodies razz )? Cheers!


I was wondering about this also. I found this DC-DC converter which gives 1A and is cheaper than the one in the BOM.
http://uk.farnell.com/xp-power/jtl3024d15/converter-dc-dc-30w-15v/dp/1 738272
Looks to be like for like but not sure if the pin placement is standard.


Quick check of the datasheet and it looks like a drop in replacement nanners
Nice one reggiechacha thumbs up
Altitude909
flts wrote:
Monobass wrote:
Altitude909 wrote:
Seeing that all the tempcos are sold out at thonk and synthcube, I sent a RFQ to PRC in Florida (Precision Resistor Co, my go to place for these) so if anyone stateside needs some, drop me a line


whut?? they're very in stock, I have hundreds and have for months.

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/tempco-resistor-krl-bantry-3500ppm-x2/


FWIW, I just tried adding 4 of those to cart and it says "value must be less than or equal to 3 (qty)" which kind of hints there's either some kind of ordering restriction or the web store thinks there are only 3 pieces left in stock.


That changed today, yesterday when I tried to order 4, it said it had 3 in stock only..
satindas
roglok wrote:
here's a hint for those (europeans?) having trouble sourcing the Peerless speakers (or not willing to shell out for a pair of speakers):

check out the 3.3" broadband range of german manufacturer Visaton

i just ordered a pair of magnetically shielded F8SC for ~€10 each. those are not high-end, but supposedly decent speakers. should be a bang for the buck type of deal. i've compared the hole arrangement - they should be drop-in replacements.


Thanks for this! Although it's got me scratching my head now. It looks like there's some major differences in the performance of the two types and I'm wondering if I really want to compromise the sound by using these cheaper drivers. The Visatons only go down to 80 Hz whereas the Peerless' do 50 HZ. At the upper end the Visatons do 15kHz whereas the Peerless' do 20k... also the Visatons resonate at 103Hz ( not great if you're into tight bass) whereas the Peerless' resonate down at 83 Hz . If you're mainly gonna be running the TTSH through some decent monitors then the low spec of the Visatons might not be an issue. Nice potential saving though hmmm.....
flts
Altitude909 wrote:
That changed today, yesterday when I tried to order 4, it said it had 3 in stock only..


Yeah, like Monobass says a few posts up, he fixed the issue after I mentioned about it aloud Guinness ftw! Most probably ordering tempcos + jacks tomorrow the same time as I pay for the panel + PCB kit.
tojpeters
What is the consensus on the matched tranny pairs? I see the mouser list has around 25 each of 3904 and 3906, but don't most of those need to be matched pairs?
I'm bringing this up to point out that the numbers on the list are correct(?) but the number you need to buy to get your matched pairs will be higher. The price break is at 100 on those,only a couple more bucks will get you 4 times the amount of trans. If you are matching your own you will need the 100. 50 would probably do it but that costs more than 100.
StillNotWorking
gddfp wrote:
In the BOM, the SMD caps (6x) are listed as 100nF, but the Mouser # [77-VJ0805Y103JXXPBC] is for 10nF caps...

Is the value correct (100n), or the Mouser # ?


If my memory serves me right you want the 100nF.
77-VJ0805Y104JXXPBC
StillNotWorking
2N5459 seems to be rather rare and pricey these days. From the datasheet I found that the MMBF5457 in SOT-23 package are available at Mouser 512-MMBF5457.

But are these transistors important for the function of the VCO or can we use other FET's like MPF102 or J201?
gddfp
StillNotWorking wrote:
gddfp wrote:
In the BOM, the SMD caps (6x) are listed as 100nF, but the Mouser # [77-VJ0805Y103JXXPBC] is for 10nF caps...

Is the value correct (100n), or the Mouser # ?


If my memory serves me right you want the 100nF.
77-VJ0805Y104JXXPBC

Yea, that's what I reckoned...
Plenty of 100n's in my bin here, though only in 1206 package. 805 is just a wee bit too small to handle for my old & weary body.

"If my memory serves me right"... were you a beta builder ?
gddfp
StillNotWorking wrote:
2N5459 seems to be rather rare and pricey these days. From the datasheet I found that the MMBF5457 in SOT-23 package are available at Mouser 512-MMBF5457.

But are these transistors important for the function of the VCO or can we use other FET's like MPF102 or J201?

I've read -- if I recall well, somewhere in a synth repair related message -- that the BF245 is a good substitute. Has a reverse pinout though.
diablojoy
monobass wrote
Quote:
I was looking for some pink 3x2x4 recently... where did you get them?


http://www.ebay.com/usr/hklwh123

I got pink leds from this guy, but i think i cleaned him out.
the pink and purple are probably my all time favourite led colours bit more stand out then red and not eye strainingly annoying like blue leds,
I would certainly buy some more if i find any I am using lots of sliders at the present besides the TTSH

edit oh ok here you go another one..http://www.ebay.com/itm/100pcs-2x3x4mm-Pink-Water-Clear-LED-Lamp- With-12V-Free-Resistors-234P-td-/390631308376?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&ha sh=item5af370bc58&forcev4exp=true
flts
tojpeters wrote:
What is the consensus on the matched tranny pairs? I see the mouser list has around 25 each of 3904 and 3906, but don't most of those need to be matched pairs?


I just bought 100 of each just to be safe and probably have some in shelf already... They're going to be useful anyway and 100 of each costs pennies.
LED-man
Have tested 2n3958 from a german china part dealer..
Pinout is wrong have DSG , datasheet says SDG
Further testing needed.
Peake
From another thread:

ASSuming the oscillators are using the same parts as the original (apologies to zthee if I'm going off again without knowing):

CA3046 are $0.49 at Goldmine in the US.

PN5910 are $1.48 each in low quantities (35,000 in stock) at Wellgain.

2N4392 are at Mouser for $2.42 (zwei feir zwei) each. 3,251 in stock.
decaying.sine
diablojoy wrote:
monobass wrote
Quote:
I was looking for some pink 3x2x4 recently... where did you get them?


http://www.ebay.com/usr/hklwh123

I got pink leds from this guy, but i think i cleaned him out.
the pink and purple are probably my all time favourite led colours bit more stand out then red and not eye strainingly annoying like blue leds,
I would certainly buy some more if i find any I am using lots of sliders at the present besides the TTSH

edit oh ok here you go another one..http://www.ebay.com/itm/100pcs-2x3x4mm-Pink-Water-Clear-LED-Lamp- With-12V-Free-Resistors-234P-td-/390631308376?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&ha sh=item5af370bc58&forcev4exp=true


Do you have a link to the purple? I don't see them in his list.
delayed
Is there any reason not to power this with a MFOS type board? They put out 1A, +- voltage, and a wallwart can be used.
Altitude909
delayed wrote:
Is there any reason not to power this with a MFOS type board? They put out 1A, +- voltage, and a wallwart can be used.


That's my plan. I can get gold plated smoothing caps for half as much as that DC-DC converter costs. 8 parts costing maybe $4 would have worked just as well with an AC source as some $105 fancy DC thingamadodle
decaying.sine
You can stick a power-one/condor in there and it would do the trick. The BD* on the BOM give +/-5VDC.

Seems like there are lots of nice options with the setup.

1) power-one/condor HBB-15-1.5-A
2) DC-DC Bricks
3) MFOS or even J3RKS PSU board with a nice toroidal transformer.
diablojoy
decaying.sine wrote
Quote:
Do you have a link to the purple? I don't see them in his list.

alas sorry haven't found any purple in the correct rectangular size as yet.
(monobass was looking for pink) if i ever find some i will post a link.
flts
Peake wrote:
CA3046 are $0.49 at Goldmine in the US.


Since it looks Goldmine won't ship to Europe... I'm sure there are multiple sources inside EU but Musikding stocks them for 2.50eur a piece which I think is reasonable already: http://www.musikding.de/CA3046_1

I bought mine from a trusted eBay seller for about the same price (but that included shipping) but if you're ordering PCB headers, possibly the reverb tank etc. miscellaneous parts from Musikding, you might as well get the CA3046 from there, they're a nice company.

Quote:
PN5910 are $1.48 each in low quantities (35,000 in stock) at Wellgain.


I suppose these are substituted to something else in BOM... Not found there at least.

Quote:
2N4392 are at Mouser for $2.42 (zwei feir zwei) each. 3,251 in stock.


Yeah, included in the zthee's Mouser cart as well.
flts
decaying.sine wrote:
Seems like there are lots of nice options with the setup.

1) power-one/condor HBB-15-1.5-A
2) DC-DC Bricks
3) MFOS or even J3RKS PSU board with a nice toroidal transformer.


Yeah, I actually thought I might just get an used Power One and be done with it. I have one or two of the classic LM317/LM337 PSU boards around as well so just buying a good toroidal transformer to go with it would be a sensible option, I guess. I just like the idea of enclosed PSUs such as the Power One / Condor.

I would think the 0.8A per rail linear Power Ones (HAA15-0.8-A etc.) would work as well since the officially specced switching DC-DC is 0.5A per rail. Those are easy to found used as well.
satindas
Busy ordering stuff and mostly succeeding but having a problem understanding exactly what headers and housings are required. The BOM is very unclear and the Mouser/Musikding quantities dont seem to match up. seriously, i just don't get it
Anyone got any info please.
roglok
satindas wrote:
Busy ordering stuff and mostly succeeding but having a problem understanding exactly what headers and housings are required. The BOM is very unclear and the Mouser/Musikding quantities dont seem to match up. seriously, i just don't get it
Anyone got any info please.


all headers (except DC power inlet, which is 0.156") are 0.1" spacing. I think you can choose the brand/make of your liking.

crimping those connectors yourself rather than buying premade cables is the way to go. i bought a ton of the 0.1" headers from ebay seller grandsky a while ago (as spotted by a fellow wiggler)...

with the bigger MTA headers I made a mistake myself, ordering only the receptacles without housings nor pins. so if anyone has a couple of pins and a housing to spare.. we're not worthy
satindas
roglok wrote:

all headers (except DC power inlet, which is 0.156") are 0.1" spacing. I think you can choose the brand/make of your liking.

crimping those connectors yourself rather than buying premade cables is the way to go. i bought a ton of the 0.1" headers from ebay seller grandsky a while ago (as spotted by a fellow wiggler)...

with the bigger MTA headers I made a mistake myself, ordering only the receptacles without housings nor pins. so if anyone has a couple of pins and a housing to spare.. we're not worthy


Thanks roglok I have an MTA tool and yeah that's definitely the way to go but what I'm saying is that in the BOM (very first item for example) the quantity is stated as 9, but then says 7x musikding. Same thing for item 2. Also for items 4 and 5, what does (For 3 x 1x3 below as well) mean? not even the same no of pins! Probably just me but I think this all needs clarification.
roglok
satindas wrote:
roglok wrote:

all headers (except DC power inlet, which is 0.156") are 0.1" spacing. I think you can choose the brand/make of your liking.

crimping those connectors yourself rather than buying premade cables is the way to go. i bought a ton of the 0.1" headers from ebay seller grandsky a while ago (as spotted by a fellow wiggler)...

with the bigger MTA headers I made a mistake myself, ordering only the receptacles without housings nor pins. so if anyone has a couple of pins and a housing to spare.. we're not worthy


Thanks roglok I have an MTA tool and yeah that's definitely the way to go but what I'm saying is that in the BOM (very first item for example) the quantity is stated as 9, but then says 7x musikding. Same thing for item 2. Also for items 4 and 5, what does (For 3 x 1x3 below as well) mean? not even the same no of pins! Probably just me but I think this all needs clarification.


OK, i see. that's indeed confusing. i think only zthee can clarify...
satindas
Can anyone tell me if the MLCC caps can be replaced with Poly film. I've got loads of the correct values but not in MLCC. Also, the 20n and 22n caps in zthees BOM (with the same part number!) don't seem to be in the Mouser BOM.???
Cheers.
fracinfrucer
roglok wrote:
satindas wrote:
roglok wrote:

all headers (except DC power inlet, which is 0.156") are 0.1" spacing. I think you can choose the brand/make of your liking.

crimping those connectors yourself rather than buying premade cables is the way to go. i bought a ton of the 0.1" headers from ebay seller grandsky a while ago (as spotted by a fellow wiggler)...

with the bigger MTA headers I made a mistake myself, ordering only the receptacles without housings nor pins. so if anyone has a couple of pins and a housing to spare.. we're not worthy


Thanks roglok I have an MTA tool and yeah that's definitely the way to go but what I'm saying is that in the BOM (very first item for example) the quantity is stated as 9, but then says 7x musikding. Same thing for item 2. Also for items 4 and 5, what does (For 3 x 1x3 below as well) mean? not even the same no of pins! Probably just me but I think this all needs clarification.


OK, i see. that's indeed confusing. i think only zthee can clarify...


For the second line on the BOM where it calls for 24 and then lists 13 from musikding, I noticed that there are already 24 3-pin MTAs in the mouser project list, so if you used the mouser cart, you may want to make sure you didn't already order these too.
gddfp
satindas wrote:
Can anyone tell me if the MLCC caps can be replaced with Poly film. I've got loads of the correct values but not in MLCC. Also, the 20n and 22n caps in zthees BOM (with the same part number!) don't seem to be in the Mouser BOM.???
Cheers.

Film caps are mostly a step-up, so to speak, from ceramics, and these ceramics only serve decoupling or stabilising duties, so... yes. It's overkill, but it won't hurt.

20n caps are less common and harder to find, though they were used often in vintage designs. Use 22n caps where it says 20n. The same for 50p/n: use 47p/n instead.
elmegil
gddfp wrote:

20n caps are less common and harder to find, though they were used often in vintage designs. Use 22n caps where it says 20n. The same for 50p/n: use 47p/n instead.


I'm pretty sure that's what the Mouser BOM does.... Rounds a few of those in different directions.
Nordcore
Regarding the connectors (taken from the schematics - so *expect* some errors or faulty guesses):

there are 12 three pin power supply "outs" at the supply side and 11 sub-circuit power ins.
What is needed as "pluggable" is on your decision. (one side, both sides ... )
Both sides are on the large main board, they are just wires to help debugging and partial test.

One additional three pin connector is for the spring tank. The line back from the tank to recovery amp input *must* be shielded.

There are 11 two pin connectors:
CV, Gate, Trigger, together with #12 power-out these might go to the "keyboard" connector.
Left and right amp insert, I guess a jumper here will fit most needs.
Left and Right speaker output.
Amp Power supply in. Might be taken from different locations.
Two Power supply input distribution(? this might supply the power amp.
One power in. (Most probably this might be the .156 one... )

Additionally you need the board to board connectors for the VCO-modules. These are 6 two-pin and 3 three-pin connectors needed. See construction instruction. (Reichelt has some longer pin headers which would do the job nicely. https://secure.reichelt.de/Stiftleisten/STAPELLEISTE-20/3//index.html? ACTION=3&GROUPID=3220&ARTICLE=19453 you can break them easily to required pin count and you can move the plastic strips to fit the required height. )
flts
elmegil wrote:
gddfp wrote:

20n caps are less common and harder to find, though they were used often in vintage designs. Use 22n caps where it says 20n. The same for 50p/n: use 47p/n instead.


I'm pretty sure that's what the Mouser BOM does.... Rounds a few of those in different directions.


also - this may be obvious, but those caps most probably have +-5% or +-10% tolerance anyway, so a 22nF cap may as well measure close to 20nF.
filterstein
5 or 10% tolerance would be good for caps today.
Except for the polystyrene caps you can be sure they had at least 20% tolerance in the past.
roglok
filterstein wrote:
5 or 10% tolerance would be good for caps today.
Except for the polystyrene caps you can be sure they had at least 20% tolerance in the past.


all standard caps in the 2600 were 20% (unless otherwise noted)...
delayed
anyone buy any 2N3958 yet? if so where are you getting them from other than UTSource and eBay?
flts
delayed wrote:
anyone buy any 2N3958 yet? if so where are you getting them from other than UTSource and eBay?


I just decided to pony up and buy from a trusted seller for an inflated price. TBH I'm still a bit scared of UTSource. If anyone knows of a reliable source for those that isn't like $5-10 a piece, I'd gladly stock up a few more.
rekem1000
I've gone through quite a few 2n3958's repairing ARP s/h circuits over the years, the gold pin Vishay manufactured ones are the ones to get, silver pin NS/MOT manufactured ones have been no good for me.
satindas
2 builds worth of 2N3954's and 2N3958's ordered from littlediode on 04/12. Estimated delivery 05/12...... still not arrived ! You could say I'm slightly pissed! Never maintain cash savings again very frustrating
roglok
another thing i noticed -

the schematics in the original service manual show a 2N3954 in the sine waveshaper but the BOM lists a 2N3958. makes me think that there's a chance these could be used interchangeably...
StillNotWorking
roglok wrote:
another thing i noticed -

the schematics in the original service manual show a 2N3954 in the sine waveshaper but the BOM lists a 2N3958. makes me think that there's a chance these could be used interchangeably...


From Vishay 2N3958 datasheet
"The low cost 2N3958 JFET dual is designed for high-performance differential amplification for a wide range of precision test instrumentation applications"
http://www.vishay.com/docs/70256/70256.pdf

"For similar products see
2N5196/5197/5198/5199,
the low-noise U/SST401 series,
the high-gain 2N5911/5912,
and the low-leakage U421/423 data sheets."

For S/H I guess the low-leakage series might be of interest.
roglok
StillNotWorking wrote:
roglok wrote:
another thing i noticed -

the schematics in the original service manual show a 2N3954 in the sine waveshaper but the BOM lists a 2N3958. makes me think that there's a chance these could be used interchangeably...


From Vishay 2N3958 datasheet
"The low cost 2N3958 JFET dual is designed for high-performance differential amplification for a wide range of precision test instrumentation applications"
http://www.vishay.com/docs/70256/70256.pdf

"For similar products see
2N5196/5197/5198/5199,
the low-noise U/SST401 series,
the high-gain 2N5911/5912,
and the low-leakage U421/423 data sheets."

For S/H I guess the low-leakage series might be of interest.


unfortunately all of those are obsolete, too. sad banana
adhmzaiusz
Just out of curiosity, isn't the 2N3954 just a set of matched FETs in one package? Couldn't two separate FETs suffice?
M-Circus
Please correct me if I'm wrong here, I forgot to take proper notes when ordering. Was it the 2x TDA2030's (which I notice is in Thonk's rare parts kit) that was in the Mouser BOM, but unavailable due to being discontinued?

Just trying to figure out if I can now lean back and put my trust in Steve.
papaZooZoo
flts wrote:
If you want to integrate a MIDI interface to your build, look into projects such as the Oakley MidiDAC, MidiImplant or HexInverter MIDI2CV.


Me and my bear much thought about MIDI/CV.
MidiImplant and HexInverter MIDI2СV have 5v Gate.
I think we can try Doepfer Dark Link. Manufacturer reports that:

Important Note # 1: The gate output is not suitable for devices that require a gate voltage more than 5V ! But the Dark Link can be modified for 12V gate voltage. The modification should not be carried out by the customer because in this case the warranty is void (it is necessary to interrupt the 5V track and install a wire to 12V). We will publish soon details about the modification in case that customers want to carry out the modification despite the warranty loss.
flts
papaZooZoo wrote:
MidiImplant and HexInverter MIDI2TSV have 5v Gate.


MidiImplant: "Gate output with V-trigger type of gating signal. User selected on-state: power supply level or 0V", and it works with 15V PSU rail. I took that to mean that it would output 15V gates (or anything that's fed to it as supply voltage as long as it's 15V or under).

HexInverter: I found no clear information whether the gates are +5V, I guess you're right about this?

Quote:
I think we can try Doepfer Dark Link.


Yeah, that would work in case you modify it. If you use an external MIDI/CV, though, Kenton boxes are awesome in my experience.
StillNotWorking
adhmzaiusz wrote:
Just out of curiosity, isn't the 2N3954 just a set of matched FETs in one package? Couldn't two separate FETs suffice?


I plan to mount sockets for all parts on the rear list and start with standard components before ordering silly priced parts that in many cases are likely to be fake.
papaZooZoo
I'm sorry, my bear did not read carefully. It was not said about MIDIMPLANT and about MINICV: "• Gate output of V-trigger type. Gate ON user selectable 5V or 0V (reversed)"

About HexInverter these are only my conclusions after circuitry studying:
http://cv.hexinverter.net/?projects=midi2cv-v10
diablojoy
anyone know the panel thickness ?
havent seen it posted anywhere
started my case and i am thinking of slots to slide it into so i will need an exact thickness. cheers.
grizzle
Anyone know whats up with "737-LHA-03-TS"? Mouser says they aren't available and there is no replacement. I can't find it on the BOM either so I'm not sure how to account for, and replace it with something comparable.

Cheers,
Alex
elmegil
Those are 3 pin locking headers, they've been replaced by (I believe) a TE Connectivity part that is equivalent.
Kipling
I ordered a pair of Peerless 830986 speakers in the UK from Audio Components: http://www.audio-components.co.uk/store/productdetail.asp?ProductID=46 05. A bit pricey at £33 each but I didn't fancy ordering from the USA for half the price in case of import tax/duty problems.

Also I note that one of the Bourns trimmers should be 250R but in the BOM and Mouser cart only the 500R is available. Whilst it is used as a variable resistor and not a potential divider it will work as a 500R part but you'll only be able to use half of the track so not as fine adjustment as it could be. If you use them best to set it mid-position and calibrate from there as having it at more than 250R initially may give unpredictable effects. The correct 250R part is available from Farnell in the UK http://uk.farnell.com/bourns/3362p-1-251lf/trimmer-pot-250-ohm-10-1tur n-th/dp/2328601?Ntt=3362P-1-251LF They are currently out of stock as I just bought their entire stock (only 9 of them) to make up a minimum order value. The lead time is quoted at 65 days.

So if anyone wants the correct part I have 8 spare and can post worldwide for £1 each plus postage with payment by Paypal. :hihi:

Update 24/01/2014: All 8 now taken.

If anyone still wants one, Farnell are expecting them back in stock on 23rd Feb 2014. Click on link above. They have a £20 GBP minimum order value for credit card sales to non-trade buyers
Heavy Metal Kid
Kipling wrote:
So if anyone wants the correct part I have 8 spare and can post worldwide for £1 each plus postage with payment by Paypal. hihi


Sent you a PM. razz
Clemdu
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
Kipling wrote:
So if anyone wants the correct part I have 8 spare and can post worldwide for £1 each plus postage with payment by Paypal. hihi


Sent you a PM. razz


Same here thumbs up
sealion
sent a pm
spneca
Kipling wrote:

So if anyone wants the correct part I have 8 spare and can post worldwide for £1 each plus postage with payment by Paypal. hihi

Update 24/12/2013: 4 taken, 4 available.


PM sent.
Monobass
Mouser just updated the delivery date on my sliders from March to the end of Jan....
wutierson
Yes it's usual that Mouser puts longer delivery times than the real time you wait for it. It's due to save any problem that can occur during the delivery from the supplier and then can avoid any claim from the customer, it's better to make delivery sooner than too late, you will not claim a too soon delivery!
lol
I think that the delivery times is shorter when Mouser receive more purchases for the item, so the Mouser-supplier channel is more fluid (for example Bourns only supply to mouser no more than "x" thousand dollars or "x" hundreds of the item reference) for that it's more easy to speed up the delivery of slider whit 4000 units on hold than 100 units.
Since many time I purchased items (not rare parts, not rare manufacturers) with too long estimated time and usually the delivery time was under the 50% at the end. At least it's my experience with Mouser since lot of years.
ultravox
My sliders are still showing late March... hopefully that'll change.

Still waiting for my chance to order Thonk's rare parts. Oh, and still looking for a reverb tank.
Monobass
wutierson wrote:
Yes it's usual that Mouser puts longer delivery times than the real time you wait for it.


Never normally more than a few days I've found, pretty unusual for something to be shifted forward a couple of months. So I guess the TTSH demand is paying off thumbs up wouldn't be surprised if some of the other orders still earmarked for march come.forward.
mush
Still march, but I ordered the mouser bom a handful of days after the Minimeanie.
Luap
Monobass wrote:
Mouser just updated the delivery date on my sliders from March to the end of Jan....


The pessimist in me initially read that as "Jun" (June) hihi
January would be nice of course though! That said, i've not even ordered the main kit yet. Will have to wait for round 2 for that..

Got my rare bits, plus other parts I had ordered from Thonk though. So im well past the point of no return hyper
kons
I am doing a thinking in relation to TTSH powering... I am thinking a 'power one' linear supply ala the dotcom style http://www.synthesizers.com/q101.html#qps5 ... and then install a 6pin din female on the TTSH... and use the dotcom style DC interconnect cables...

What might be potential problems?
Jarno
I would stay away from DIN connectors, they are usually pretty flimsy and cheap. XLR has more sturdy contacts and better power rating. They can be had in 5 pin (used for dmx lighting control applications). I am assuming you build the powerone psu inside the ttsh case? Why not wire it up directly, maybe a connector on one end of the cable, soldered on the other?
flts
^- I'd use 4 or 5 pin (Neutrik) XLR & proper multicore DC power cable as well. That's what the GroupDIY 51x API "clone" racks use for example, feels much sturdier and more reliable than even the better DIN connectors I've tried.

And agreed, if you are planning to install the power supply to the same case, there's probably no need for fancy cabling and connectors. If you want to use an external linear PSU, that's another matter.
Kipling
I've opted for the 1A TDK Lambda DC/DC converter Mouser part # 967-PXD3024WD15 (back in stock now) and intend to use an external laptop power supply I have kicking around.

For power and other medium current connectors (e.g. speakers) I find the Neutrik connectors to be excellent.
LED-man
@zthee

Im the BOM is listed 6x 100N capaciator,
But the mouser number is for a 10N capaciator.
(The SNT 805)
roglok
those are for decoupling. not critical.
ualslosar
FYI - Got an update from Mouser. Slide pots which were due to be shipped Mar 31/2014, was updated to Jan 31/2014 - or - was it 2015? (just kidding)

- There may be hope of eventually building these things in the New Year.

Take care
Heavy Metal Kid
Yeah, I got the same update. Last parts of the Mouser order will be shipped in late January!
Kipling
Mine are still showing 27th March neutral . Hopefully that'll change to Jan.

All the switches are Pending with no confirmed availability date yet. Hopefully Jan sometime.
kons
flts wrote:
^- I'd use 4 or 5 pin (Neutrik) XLR & proper multicore DC power cable as well. That's what the GroupDIY 51x API "clone" racks use for example, feels much sturdier and more reliable than even the better DIN connectors I've tried.

And agreed, if you are planning to install the power supply to the same case, there's probably no need for fancy cabling and connectors. If you want to use an external linear PSU, that's another matter.



Well something like this would be ideal http://www.bugbrand.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_22& products_id=87 ... and I agree about the 6pindins being not optimal... but I will run my 5U-MU from the same power supply and dotcom uses 6pindin as standard...

So the idea is a super solid linear power supply that sits on the floor in the corner and can run dc +-15v and 5v to different systems...
magman
I have used similar connectors to those On the Bugbrand PSU for quite a few of my external PSU connections, like these:

Multi Pole (Metal) Connectors

I make up my own cables using 24/0.2 wire (which just fits through the cable clamp) then heat-shrink an outer sheath to keep things neat and add a layer of protection. for longer cables, I might be tempted to add a second heat-shrink layer, for added mechanical protection though.

You can see one of my setups in this old thread:

5U Case Design

On a side note, if you don't want to go down the Power One route, the Oakley PSU PCB along with the Yamaha transformer that I used in the case above is an alternate route to follow that also keeps mains outside of the case. You could mount the Oakley PSU in the standard TTSH metal case and use the case as a conveniently large heat-sink. This is the route I will probably go down myself, when I get round to ordering my own TTSH's.

Regards

Magman
DubplateDerek
Kipling wrote:
Mine are still showing 27th March neutral . Hopefully that'll change to Jan.

All the switches are Pending with no confirmed availability date yet. Hopefully Jan sometime.


Me too - still seeing 27th March for the pots.

But doesn't pending mean that those items are ready to go? Almost everything on my order, backorders excepted, is listed as 'pending'
Kipling
DubplateDerek wrote:
Kipling wrote:
Mine are still showing 27th March neutral . Hopefully that'll change to Jan.

All the switches are Pending with no confirmed availability date yet. Hopefully Jan sometime.


Me too - still seeing 27th March for the pots.

But doesn't pending mean that those items are ready to go? Almost everything on my order, backorders excepted, is listed as 'pending'


Normally yes - everything else is shown as in stock awaiting release, but the Switchcraft items are shown as " This product is on order with our manufacturer. Based on information provided by the manufacturer, we expect to ship this product to you on the date specified. You will receive an e-mail notification as soon as we have an expected in stock date."

But on the product page if I click on View Delivery Dates it gives:

Mouser Product Availability

No Stock
150On Order
Estimated Dispatch Date

02/01/2014

104 30/01/2014
46: Request Delivery Quote

Factory Lead Time

8 Weeks

..which implies it could be tomorrow if it's showing UK date format (probably) or 1st Feb if it's showing US date format. Confusing???

Anyway I doubt I'll be needing them for a few weeks yet.
satindas
My Power-One HBB15-1.5 just turned up from Radwell and looks like a deal for $45US. However, I'm struggling to find detailed info on how to wire this thing properly. There's enough info on the case to sort the input jumpering but nowhere can I find info on the OVP add-on (which I fully intend to fit!) or how the +s and -s should be wired. help
roglok
satindas wrote:
My Power-One HBB15-1.5 just turned up from Radwell and looks like a deal for $45US. However, I'm struggling to find detailed info on how to wire this thing properly. There's enough info on the case to sort the input jumpering but nowhere can I find info on the OVP add-on (which I fully intend to fit!) or how the +s and -s should be wired. help


check this:

http://www.armspower.com/Products/Power-One/Compact%20Power%20Systems/ AC-DC%20and%20DC-DC%20Power%20Supplies/daten/tech/sense.pdf

also: there's a thread somewhere where daverj explains how the sense lines should be connected including a very nice diagram. can't find it right now - try the search...
wutierson
Hi guys,
Anyone have the reference, part number or the measures/details of the power on/off button? I don't find the part number in the BOM...

thanks in advance!
satindas
roglok wrote:
satindas wrote:
My Power-One HBB15-1.5 just turned up from Radwell and looks like a deal for $45US. However, I'm struggling to find detailed info on how to wire this thing properly. There's enough info on the case to sort the input jumpering but nowhere can I find info on the OVP add-on (which I fully intend to fit!) or how the +s and -s should be wired. help


check this:

http://www.armspower.com/Products/Power-One/Compact%20Power%20Systems/ AC-DC%20and%20DC-DC%20Power%20Supplies/daten/tech/sense.pdf

also: there's a thread somewhere where daverj explains how the sense lines should be connected including a very nice diagram. can't find it right now - try the search...


Thanks roglok, lots of info there. I'll check out daverj's post if I can find it again (pretty sure I've seen it before) .
thumbs up
sduck
I don't think using the sense lines for this application will make any difference. Wait, maybe you're building an external enclosure for it, and powering several things from there? Then by all means...
roglok
sduck wrote:
I don't think using the sense lines for this application will make any difference. Wait, maybe you're building an external enclosure for it, and powering several things from there? Then by all means...


true, but even when not using remote sensing, the sense lines must be connected to the power lines on the PSU PCB.
sduck
..
Cablebasher
Have any UK based fellows purchased their power supply elements yet?

If so where?

I have only ever dealt with eurorack powered DIY projects so this side of things (what i need to buy, how i install it, how i make sure it doesn't explode etc) is the bit I'm most worried about.

thanks as always.
satindas
Cablebasher wrote:
Have any UK based fellows purchased their power supply elements yet?

If so where?

I have only ever dealt with eurorack powered DIY projects so this side of things (what i need to buy, how i install it, how i make sure it doesn't explode etc) is the bit I'm most worried about.

thanks as always.


Unless you're planning to power additional modules its probably a good idea to order one of the specified DC-DC converters or this one from Farnell which is a fair bit less expensive. Any of those merely require the addition of a suitable wallwart. If on the other hand you intend to power additional modules you should look at either this from Oakley or one of the Power-One HBB15-1.5 supplies. Bear in mind though that using a Linear supply such as the Power One will mean bringing mains voltage inside the case of the TTSH and you better make sure you Earth it correctly or you might end up Dead Banana . You could of course mount the supply in an external housing but you still need the Earthing to be correctly wired.The Oakley PSU requires an external AC-DC transformer (Yamaha PA-20 or PA-30) available from Thomman. The Power-Ones can be had from mouser or maybe you can get lucky and find a good deal on ebay...Check the PLL Centre ebay shop.

If you're not confident with mains voltage you should stick to the solutions which use a wall wart or external step down PSU.
elmegil
Speaking of DC-DC converters, I'm not too keen to order from Newark/Farnell, because anything that ships from the UK gets a $20 markup. I'm looking for a 1A converter that can be subbed at a slightly cheaper price than the $104 that DigiKey wants for the one in the BOM....

I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts on this one?

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/RP30-2415DFW/945-1276-ND/2256 456

I'll be looking for data sheets to compare pinouts and such later, but I have to run right now, figured I'd toss it out there....
sduck
That one's a 6-DIP, the specified part is 5-DIP. Don't know what the difference is, or if there is one.

Digikey has the specified cheapo one - http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=-1094&y=-74&lang=en&site=us &KeyWords=AEE00CC18-L - it's only .5A, but zthee uses one in his build docs, so I'd imagine it'd work. Unless you're adding other stuff, of course.
elmegil
I was just looking at the expensive one's specs and I'd swear that family, at least, specified 6 pins. Yeah, DigiKey has the PXD3024WD15 listed as a 6-DIP as well.

The pin layout looks the same. The power spec looks the same. I'm leery of the .5A one due to the possibility of wanting to add MIDI onboard.

In other news, he says a 12VDC 1A transformer, but I don't see where he specifies center positive or center negative?

Trying to knock out a few more of the less obvious bits here....hoping for that reverb group buy :-)

Thanks!
elmegil
Bueller... ?
sduck
Look on the VCF build page - you can clearly see the holes provided on the pcb, and the traces. It looks like it'll work with both kinds of units, including that one you were asking about, so you're probably good. It's got holes for at least 2 kinds of units.

center positive or center negative? - I think this just depends on which one you have - just run the wires to the appropriate connectors internally.

Perhaps there'll be more clear answers to all this when the build doc gets finished.
elmegil
sduck wrote:
Look on the VCF build page - you can clearly see the holes provided on the pcb, and the traces. It looks like it'll work with both kinds of units, including that one you were asking about, so you're probably good. It's got holes for at least 2 kinds of units.


Yep, that looks good :-)

sduck wrote:

center positive or center negative? - I think this just depends on which one you have - just run the wires to the appropriate connectors internally.


Right. I was thinking of PCB mounted power jacks, but clearly that's not what's going on here :-)
Heavy Metal Kid
satindas wrote:
If you're not confident with mains voltage you should stick to the solutions which use a wall wart or external step down PSU.


The build materials list a "12-18V 1500mA DC adaptor". Will any adapter with those specs do? Typically a laptop adapter?
satindas
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
satindas wrote:
If you're not confident with mains voltage you should stick to the solutions which use a wall wart or external step down PSU.


The build materials list a "12-18V 1500mA DC adaptor". Will any adapter with those specs do? Typically a laptop adapter?


Yep, I'd advise using one of the double insulated types though as they have no Earth connection. I've come across tons of laptops which when powered from the ac adapter and connected to external audio gear, produce some horrible whining digital noise. Not sure if the problem is with the power adapters or with the laptops but the solution seems to be to use a double insulated adapter (or just run off the battery). Just check the mains cable socket on the adapter you intend to use. If it has just two pins it should be double insulated. To make sure, there should be a symbol on that case which looks like two concentric squares. If the mains cable socket has three pins It'll still work fine but you may get some noise when you hook it up to an audio interface or whatever.
effegee
Does anyone have any input regarding the ferrite beads? I want to order them, but I don't know the specs or package and the build manual isn't providing details. I've never worked with them before as none of my builds have called for ferrite beads.
roglok
effegee wrote:
Does anyone have any input regarding the ferrite beads? I want to order them, but I don't know the specs or package and the build manual isn't providing details. I've never worked with them before as none of my builds have called for ferrite beads.


https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49754
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1270320
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-21487.html

long story short: these don't do much. you can use plain wire jumpers or 10-22 ohm resistors instead. ymmv
sduck
I use mouser 623-2743002112LF - don't know the specs on the size for the TTSH yet, if you want to be sure get a pair of 623-2743001112LF also, they're a bit smaller. These are both cheap, get them rather than mess around with using other options. But Roglok is basically right: they don't do much.
satindas
...they don't do much.
_________________
What they do is this: They leak current in proportion to the frequency of the signal. The ramifications of this can only be truly appreciated when solving nodal current balances in the Laplace domain, unfortunately.

lol
sduck
Ha! Actually that quote is from Dr. Sketch-n-etch, and is concerning capacitors. I wonder if he could be scared up to produce a similar quote about what ferrite beads do?
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Ferrite beads really don't do much. I've never used 'em. I put 10uF electrolytics and 100nF multilayer ceramics on each rail on each module, and call it good. Occasionally I'll add extra 100nF bypass caps around a comparator or digital chip, or if the board is pretty large. If there's a 2164 on there (which there usually always is in my modules), then I'll put on a Schottky diode between -V and GND. This combination has always worked well for me. I've never seen the need for ferrite beads.
guillaume10
Hi,
Does anyone know where the ferrit beads are on the TTSH??
Thanks
Guillaume
satindas
guillaume10 wrote:
Hi,
Does anyone know where the ferrit beads are on the TTSH??
Thanks
Guillaume


Next to the weasel bangle. hihi

They're probably somewhere near to the DC-DC convertor or power input point.
guillaume10
I have supposed it goes ( like you are thinking) near the DC DC converter
But after looking at all the pictures, I have not seen this famous ferrit...
dingebre
effegee wrote:
Does anyone have any input regarding the ferrite beads? I want to order them, but I don't know the specs or package and the build manual isn't providing details. I've never worked with them before as none of my builds have called for ferrite beads.


I don't have a strong opinion either way, but here is a decent paper discussing decoupling from Analog Devices.

David
akrylik
Really? hmmm..... Why do they exist then?

Sure it has no affect on the audio but I thought judicious use of ferrite beads (especially around digital circuits) was necessary to reduce high frequency EMS leakage from your product so that can it pass local regulations on emissions? At least thats what I thought...
LED-man
you want build a TTSH and use them ?

is the answer YES , you have to buy me
sduck
Thanks for the part number!
M-Circus
LED-man wrote:
you want build a TTSH and use them ?

is the answer YES , you have to buy me


No on/off switch in the original bom from Zthee then I presume?

God, completely confused about what parts I have and what I miss at this point. Need to sit down and look through my orders one of these days.
LED-man
M-Circus wrote:
LED-man wrote:
you want build a TTSH and use them ?

is the answer YES , you have to buy me


No on/off switch in the original bom from Zthee then I presume?


Please look at the right of the frontpanel. .
Zthee has confirmed the missing part.
I have found the part in November on mouser "customers also buy part".. i have ordered in November the pots and switches for the ttsh, before the bom was released.
sduck
Also don't forget the various hardware bits that are at the very bottom of the BOM pdf. I'm going to put together an order at McMaster Carr for those tomorrow maybe, will share the part numbers if anyone wants them. I don't know if they're international or not; outside of the US getting the metric parts may be easier elsewhere. You probably don't need metric parts anyway - 4-40 parts are pretty close to M3 stuff. Although getting the spacing right between the pcb and panel - it might be best to stick with metric.
LED-man
my Faders are yet in stock (last date was 07.march)
M-Circus
@LED-man: Okay, thanks then! thumbs up

@sduck: Yeah, I know. I need to get around to ordering that stuff as well. That, plus the speakers.
diablojoy
just received a shipment notification from mouser w00t
thats the last of my needed parts now just gotta get the pcb and panel
cant be too far away either i would think.
M-Circus
Just noticed that Mouser seems to have cancelled my order for 25 "locking headers" with part number LHA-03-TS. I can't find them in the pdf bom, but they were definetly in the Mouser cart from Zthee.

Can anyone with greater knowledge than myself suggest a Mouser available replacement for these?
elmegil
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=22-23-2031virtualkey 53810000virtualkey538-22-23-2031

Despite the pictures, this is a three position header and I believe a good sub (it's what I ordered anyway).
M-Circus
Thanks a bunch! thumbs up
elmegil
sduck wrote:
Also don't forget the various hardware bits that are at the very bottom of the BOM pdf. I'm going to put together an order at McMaster Carr for those tomorrow maybe, will share the part numbers if anyone wants them. I don't know if they're international or not; outside of the US getting the metric parts may be easier elsewhere. You probably don't need metric parts anyway - 4-40 parts are pretty close to M3 stuff. Although getting the spacing right between the pcb and panel - it might be best to stick with metric.


I'm interested in those McMaster part numbers if you've got this by now :-)

Thanks!
sduck
Any day now... preferably one in which I have enough $ in my bank account to press the buy button... (don't worry, they ship fast, it'll get to you before you need them)
ultravox
I'm trying to dwindle down my shopping list to only needing Thonk's rare parts. For the nuts & bolts is it safe to assume the M3 screws are pan-heads (button heads)? Are the M3 standoffs female or male-female types?

Also the 2,9mm self threading screws, would those be 2.9mm pan-heads?

Cheers!
Kipling
ultravox wrote:
I'm trying to dwindle down my shopping list to only needing Thonk's rare parts. For the nuts & bolts is it safe to assume the M3 screws are pan-heads (button heads)? Are the M3 standoffs female or male-female types?

Also the 2,9mm self threading screws, would those be 2.9mm pan-heads?

Cheers!


The M3 screws can be pan-head or round head depending on your preference. I found it quite difficult to get black M3 screws in the various lengths so opted for a bag of 20mm screws that I will cut down to size.

I've assumed the stand-off are female, but there seems to be a discrepancy on the length required as I'm sure I've seen mention of 12mm and 11mm in length. Obviously if you end up with ones that are 1mm too long they can be filed to length, or too short stick a washer in.

The 2.9mm self threading I've taken to be No.4 self-tapping screws, again black in colour.

Hope this helps.
Kipling
Has anyone identified which heatsinks are required for the TDA 2030's yet?

May have to wait until the board arrives and measure the mounting holes to work out the correct one.

There are many that look like the outline on the PCB photo but of different sizes.
ultravox
Kipling wrote:
ultravox wrote:
I'm trying to dwindle down my shopping list to only needing Thonk's rare parts. For the nuts & bolts is it safe to assume the M3 screws are pan-heads (button heads)? Are the M3 standoffs female or male-female types?

Also the 2,9mm self threading screws, would those be 2.9mm pan-heads?

Cheers!


The M3 screws can be pan-head or round head depending on your preference. I found it quite difficult to get black M3 screws in the various lengths so opted for a bag of 20mm screws that I will cut down to size.

I've assumed the stand-off are female, but there seems to be a discrepancy on the length required as I'm sure I've seen mention of 12mm and 11mm in length. Obviously if you end up with ones that are 1mm too long they can be filed to length, or too short stick a washer in.

The 2.9mm self threading I've taken to be No.4 self-tapping screws, again black in colour.

Hope this helps.


Hi Kipling, this it a tremendous help! Thanks for quickly replying. By the end of today i should be down to Thonk's parts and building my own case.
sduck
Kipling wrote:
Has anyone identified which heatsinks are required for the TDA 2030's yet?


the one that's in the mouser BOM is part number 532-529801B25G

Kipling
sduck wrote:
Kipling wrote:
Has anyone identified which heatsinks are required for the TDA 2030's yet?


the one that's in the mouser BOM is part number 532-529801B25G



Silly me - didn't realise I'd already got them then - obviously haven't looked through the box thoroughly enough. Just didn't remember seeing them on the BOM. d'oh!
effegee
LED-man wrote:
you want build a TTSH and use them ?

is the answer YES , you have to buy me


Anyone know the difference between the NKK rocker switches CWT12AAS1 and CWT12AAS1/U? I can't figure out what the "U" stands for. Otherwise, they seem to be the same.
Kipling
effegee wrote:
LED-man wrote:
you want build a TTSH and use them ?

is the answer YES , you have to buy me


Anyone know the difference between the NKK rocker switches CWT12AAS1 and CWT12AAS1/U? I can't figure out what the "U" stands for. Otherwise, they seem to be the same.


I just bought the U version as the other was out of stock at Mouser and it looks no different at all. Could just be a different approval stamp perhaps.
Cablebasher
Is it possible for the original poster to update the first post as to what we need to buy to build the synth?

I'm referring specifically to be things on the bom that are not covered by the mouser bom, thonk, speakers, dc/dc power and reverb tank.

I believe it includes ferrite beads, on/off switch, MTAs, pin headers, tda2030 and nuts and bolts.

I have ordered the mouser bom, thonk, tank and power but a little confused as to what I am now missing.

Thanks and sorry if this has already been asked or actioned.
Monobass
Cablebasher look here - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=98954

it would be good to a link to the build thread in the first post.
zthee
Cablebasher wrote:
Is it possible for the original poster to update the first post as to what we need to buy to build the synth?

I'm referring specifically to be things on the bom that are not covered by the mouser bom, thonk, speakers, dc/dc power and reverb tank.

I believe it includes ferrite beads, on/off switch, MTAs, pin headers, tda2030 and nuts and bolts.

I have ordered the mouser bom, thonk, tank and power but a little confused as to what I am now missing.

Thanks and sorry if this has already been asked or actioned.


The on/off switch should be included in the Mouser order, though it is missing in the BOM (I'll try to update it).

The TDA2030 can be replaced with LM1875. Again I'll update the BOM.

The ferrite beads can be left out really. The pin headers should also be included in the Mouser order.
flts
Since the official BOM PDF includes the ferrite beads, TDA2030, MTAs, nuts and bolts et cetera, I haven't added them to the first post separately. There are multiple good sources where you can get them from depending on where you live, and some of those possible sources (such as Musikding for the ready-made MTA100 cable assemblies) are already listed on the BOM.

I'd rather let people look up things at the official BOM since zthee is updating that one, than keep a separate list here, if that makes any sense.

I CAN update the first post on request if someone, for example, has a lead to a superb source for some of these parts (aside what's already mentioned on the BOM PDF) Please PM me if you want me to do so, I may miss your post otherwise.
Monobass
Monobass wrote:
Cablebasher look here - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=98954

it would be good to a link to the build thread in the first post.


lol, I just realised what I did, horrible recursion loop wink
horstronic
Has anybody built this already? Can't wait to see more demos hyper
Cablebasher
Cheers for the info fellas,

I now know, i think, all the extra bits i need.

Just needed a bit of clarification.

not long now.
flts
horstronic wrote:
Has anybody built this already? Can't wait to see more demos hyper


I think none of the PCBs and front panels have shipped quite yet (apparently coming really soon now), so the only ones in existence so far are the proto ones zthee and the test builder(s) have built.
gddfp
Zthee, I'm wondering how the power supply is plugged into the unit ?
Is it with a barrel plug, and if so, which diameter (2.1mm?), and more importantly, how is the polarity configured ?

I've got a switched supply here, which is endlessly configurable: it can be set to produce anything in-between 12V and 24V, so which voltage would be best ? Slightly over 15V, I assume ? 16 or 17V perhaps ?

cheers !
_g
andrewF
FOR AUSSIES
Getting the Peerless speakers into Aus is quite expensive. These ones at Jaycar have similar specs and the holes look pretty close, if not they can be drilled out a bit.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AS3034
StillNotWorking
For speakers I'm gonna canibal some computer speakers laying around here. Will use a pice wood to make it fit the panel.
ultravox
I pieced together the following for anyone looking for US equivalents to the metric hardware. [Pan-head screws seem like the best option]

5 M3x6mm screw: Black color, (4-40) 1/8" x 1/4"
5 M3x12mm standoff: (4-40) 1/8" x 1/2" Female Threaded Hex
5 M3x6mm screw: (4-40) 1/8" x 1/4"
8 M3x15mm screw: Black color, (4-40) 1/8" x 9/16"
4 M3x20mm screw: Black color, (4-40) 1/8" x 13/16"
12 M3 nut: (4-40) 1/8" Hex
4 2,9mm Self threading screw: Black color, (4-40) 1/8"

I'll probably get a package of long 4-40 machine screws and cut them to size, then paint the black ones with enamel paint.
roglok
although there are some people here who fear that evil americans will buy the whole stock (sic!) i'd like to recommend the 3" line of full-range speakers from german manufacturer VISATON. affordable and great quality. i bought a pair of these for my TTSH...
qfactor
roglok wrote:
although there are some people here who fear that evil americans will buy the whole stock (sic!) i'd like to recommend the 3" line of full-range speakers from german manufacturer VISATON. affordable and great quality. i bought a pair of these for my TTSH...


Roglok,
Thanks for the heads up on this speaker.
I'm looking at this as a stand alone (not used with TTSH) so is there a recommended speaker enclosure that this may come with? thumbs up
roglok
qfactor wrote:
roglok wrote:
although there are some people here who fear that evil americans will buy the whole stock (sic!) i'd like to recommend the 3" line of full-range speakers from german manufacturer VISATON. affordable and great quality. i bought a pair of these for my TTSH...


Roglok,
Thanks for the heads up on this speaker.
I'm looking at this as a stand alone (not used with TTSH) so is there a recommended speaker enclosure that this may come with? thumbs up


i was thinking the same. a little DIY boombox for use with MP3 player/laptop etc... but i'm not sure if it's worth the effort building such a thing yourself... this topic probably deserves its own thread...
latigid on
Here is the BOM converted to excel just in case somebody else will modify the Mouser cart

Edit: to clarify I mean that I will order from the Mouser cart but add extra parts for other projects
fracinfrucer
Does anyone know of a US source for the cliff knob? I have been trying to track one down and no luck... seriously, i just don't get it
sduck
Does it have to be a cliff knob? It's just a standard pot, you could put anything on there. Your pot choice isn't going to convince anyone that it's a real 2600...

Look around Small Bears selection for a knock off. Or perhaps antique electrical supply.

Great avatar BTW!
fracinfrucer
sduck wrote:
Does it have to be a cliff knob? It's just a standard pot, you could put anything on there. Your pot choice isn't going to convince anyone that it's a real 2600...


I was trying to get something that looked kind of authentic, but a knockoff is fine. And I won't be too upset just finding something that looks good if I can't find one.

As for convincing people, my plan is to have them stand far away from it and when they say "it seems small," my response will be "that's because you're so far away from it, stupid!" lol
hv0190
Has anyone found an alternative for the
502-C56313L2X
DPTT PCB TINI SLIDE Switchcraft Slide Switch?
Obviously Mouser don't know when those will be back in stock :-(

Also: the on/off switch that didn't show up in the BOM - are there any alternatives to the one from Mouser?

Any help is much appreciated!
Kipling
Just looked on Mouser UK and the 502-C56313L2X switch is showing

Stock: 216 Can Dispatch Immediately

For the main on/off switch I bought a 633-CWT12AAS1/U (a UL marked version of the suggested one), but that's now gone out of stock too - delivery estimated 2nd May. Any SPST or SPDT rocker with the same panel cutout will do. Cutout dimensions are 19.2mm x 6.8mm or 0.756 x 0.268 inches.
hv0190
Kipling wrote:
Just looked on Mouser UK and the 502-C56313L2X switch is showing

Stock: 216 Can Dispatch Immediately

For the main on/off switch I bought a 633-CWT12AAS1/U (a UL marked version of the suggested one), but that's now gone out of stock too - delivery estimated 2nd May. Any SPST or SPDT rocker with the same panel cutout will do. Cutout dimensions are 19.2mm x 6.8mm or 0.756 x 0.268 inches.


Thx Kipling, much appreciated - but very strange, in yesterday's status update about my order Mouser's info on the estimated shipment date of the 502-C56313L2X switch says "will advise ...we'll contact you as soon as we obtain an estimated shipment date from the manufacturer" ... I guess it's best to ring them up directly tomorrow.
Kipling
I haven't had a status update but just checked the order status online and it states the 502-C56313L2X is in stock awaiting release. I also ordered a couple more for another project on a different order and they too are awaiting release. Could be Mouser just weren't sure exactly when it was due in stock.

So just the NKK rocker switch and sliders outstanding for most people then. I have the rocker but no sliders yet, and of course nothing to solder them into just yet....

Been looking at the rocker switch and it seems to have no peers at least not by NKK, given that it's very slim. There are others of the same length but none that slim.
heapish
Right,
I've ordered,
Mouser BOM
Rare Parts kit w/jack sockets

Am I right in saying I just need the Reveb tank (grounded one) and speakers? where is best to procure these in the UK/EU

Cheers
flts
Kipling wrote:
So just the NKK rocker switch and sliders outstanding for most people then. I have the rocker but no sliders yet, and of course nothing to solder them into just yet....

Been looking at the rocker switch and it seems to have no peers at least not by NKK, given that it's very slim. There are others of the same length but none that slim.


Yeah, I'm kind of interested in whether there's another option for this one. In case the specific part is pretty much out of stock everywhere (seems to be) and it wasn't in the original Mouser cart (at least couldn't see it there), there is going to be one single very specific part that will be missing from a complete build in my case. So it would be cool to hear if there are alternate parts or sources.

What's more, I've already done quite big orders to Mouser and Digikey lately, so ordering just one switch wouldn't be very cheap AND it seems they may only be available early May as before. Hmm...
Kipling
heapish wrote:
Right,
I've ordered,
Mouser BOM
Rare Parts kit w/jack sockets

Am I right in saying I just need the Reveb tank (grounded one) and speakers? where is best to procure these in the UK/EU

Cheers


There are various other parts you'll need from wherever you can source them (nuts/bolts/pre-wired MTA headers/knob etc.). Check the BOM for suggestions and details.

Don't forget the main on/off switch which was missing from the Mouser cart - 633-CWT12AAS1 or 633-CWT12AAS1/U but both are out of stock until early May. I have mine though nanners

The reverb tank can be ordered from Banzai at http://www.banzaimusic.com/Belton-RBL2AB3C1B.html

The speakers are quite pricey in the UK (£33 each) and can be found at http://www.audio-components.co.uk/store/productdetail.asp?ProductID=46 05
satindas
Kipling wrote:

The reverb tank can be ordered from Banzai at http://www.banzaimusic.com/Belton-RBL2AB3C1B.html


I ordered 2 of the 2AB reverb tanks from Banzai in December. Just today I called them for the third time and they're still not in stock. Very nice chap though - upgraded me to a 4AB for no extra charge (normal price is about 8 euro extra each) and I got shipping confirmation 30 mins later. The case is apparently about 15mm longer so should be fine.

You can look here for tanks in the uk.
flts
^- Weird. I did a big order to Banzai in January and they didn't have the 2AB tank in stock then so it was put on backorder. Something like two weeks later they shipped that as well and I now have it at home.

So either I have a tank with wrong specs OR they got only a few and decided to fulfill my later order before yours for some reason.
Heavy Metal Kid
Same here, I ordered the Belton RBL2AB3C1B reverb tank from Banzai on January 28th, and got it delivered only a few days later.
Monobass
There's nothing particularly special about this part that's listed in the TTSH Mouser BOM right?

http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EEU-HD1H100/?qs=sGAEpiMZZ MtZ1n0r9vR22QGha91sM8wWXhbpL6xpyQ8%3d

Just trying to work out why it's the most expensive comparable part in the Panasonic range. Anyone know what LS means?
gddfp
Monobass wrote:
There's nothing particularly special about this part that's listed in the TTSH Mouser BOM right?

http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EEU-HD1H100/?qs=sGAEpiMZZ MtZ1n0r9vR22QGha91sM8wWXhbpL6xpyQ8%3d

Just trying to work out why it's the most expensive comparable part in the Panasonic range. Anyone know what LS means?


Nothing special about it.
LS = Lead Spacing.
Monobass
guess it's just some function of it's value, rating and size that makes it more expensive, thanks.
AssistiveListening
For anybody interested:

I am most probably going to make a roadcase as close to the original as possible.

I actually found all parts needed and also very similar to the original.
Most links are for a german shop but I guess you can find all of these for your country too.

So is anybody else making a roadcase? I have't done any plans for cutting and glueing the wood or a pattern for the tolex. I'd really be interested if anybody has already done this.

Grip: http://www.caseman-berlin.de/Griffe/Koffergriffe/Attach-koffer-Griff-1 04.html
Corner (front): http://www.caseman-berlin.de/Ecken-und-L-Winkel/L-Winkel/Schliesswinke l-27x15-mit-Gleitkuppe.html
Corner (back): http://www.caseman-berlin.de/Ecken-und-L-Winkel/Flachecken/Flachecke-4 9mm.html
Latches: http://www.caseman-berlin.de/Verschluesse/Aufbauschloesser/Schnappschl oss-klein.html
Latches (alternative): http://www.ebay.de/itm/261256715874?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p 3984.m1423.l2648
Tolex: http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/de/shop_Bezugsstoffe_Bezugsstoffe_Tolex/B lack_Elephant_66

I bought the latches from ebay (see the lat pic in this post) since they are even closer to the original, without the third hole on the top part.

Grip:


Corners:


Latches:

gddfp
For those about ready to build, I've put together a handy pocket guide in interactive & searchable PDF format, so you don't have to refer to Zthee's website all the time...

All photos are reduced in size, but are clickable, which will take you to the original large-format photos. I've also enhanced and zoomed-in on a few details, where appropriate.

The pocket guide is finished up to and including the Electronic Switch (the rest will follow when Zthee put it online). It should be printable on both A4 & Letter sizes.

I've also included the Calibration & Alignment Procedures (reworked) from the original ARP 2600 manual. Not sure if it will apply to the TTSH, but it might come in handy.

Here you go:
http://www.guyd2.com/ttsh-buildpocket.pdf

_g
Monobass
brilliant, will try it out weds evening _g smile
sduck
gddfp wrote:
For those about ready to build, I've put together a handy pocket guide in interactive & searchable PDF format, so you don't have to refer to Zthee's website all the time...


I'd think you'd want to wait until it's done to push this out - we'd just need to replace it again when it's finished. Great idea though.
adnauseam
AssistiveListening said:
Quote:
So is anybody else making a roadcase?


I'll be making a roadcase in a similar fashion. Thanks for the links wink

I'm sure my newb-ness will delay the final product but I'll get there. First things first - gotta solder the beast.

Cheers
AssistiveListening
adnauseam wrote:
AssistiveListening said:
Quote:
So is anybody else making a roadcase?


I'll be making a roadcase in a similar fashion. Thanks for the links wink

I'm sure my newb-ness will delay the final product but I'll get there. First things first - gotta solder the beast.

Cheers


I already have all the measurements for the case ready. I will post them as soon as I'm sure they are perfect.

All in all it is very similar to this (which I found after I did the measurements for mine). It's nice to see that the main idea has been done before and make sense. Main difference is mainly, that for my version the inner case is also standing on it's bottom part http://www.flickr.com/photos/arp2600clone/9552091763/in/photostream/

This page also gives a good look of all sides of the case http://www.tonetweakers.com/used/arp2600.4.htm

BTW: I noticed that there are different kinds of latches and corners used. I am going for the ones that I linked in the other post, since they seem to look better to me and are also easier to get. I am actually not fully happy with the corners but I couldn't find better ones.
These have the perfect shape but the color is a no-go...
If anybody finds corners in that shape but in nickel please tell me where to get them. (8 of them are needed if you are doing the case with the cover)
Kopter
Measurements are highly appreciated as I'll hire a good friend of mine (who also happens to be a cabinetmaker's apprentice) to build me a case for it.
AssistiveListening
Kopter wrote:
Measurements are highly appreciated as I'll hire a good friend of mine (who also happens to be a cabinetmaker's apprentice) to build me a case for it.


kk. I'll post them as soon as I have it figured out. I need to make some changes since I wan't to make sure the height is perfect for a matching keyboard to fit in front of it. Right now it is raised about 5cm but I guess the keyboard will be like 10cm or so. ... So I actually have to do a case-design for the keyboard first.

Anyways I won't start building the case before the end of march.

I really hope someone does the electronics for the keyboard (as proposed in other threads) because I really want to make a close-to-original-design-mini-version.


Maybe I will make a second one and try to recreate the case of the blue-marvin/gray-meanie .. but that probably won't be until the 3rd batch or so..
But that's actually what I have been dreaming about since the first day I saw this project.. a mini-blue-marvin
AssistiveListening
Roadcase measurements for 10mm strong plywood

[1] front/back x 2
- 400.0mm x 640.0mm x 10.0mm
[2] top/bottom x 4
- 90.0mm x 640.0mm x 10.0mm
[3] left/right x 4
- 400.0mm x 80.0mm x 10.0mm
[4] bottom(inner) x 1
- 160.0mm x 620.0mm x 10.0mm
[5] front(inner) x 1
- 86.0mm x 600.0mm x 10.0mm
[6] top (inner) x 1
- 60.0mm x 600.0mm x 10.0mm
[7] left/right (inner) x 2
- 390.0mm x 80.0mm x 10.0mm
- 96.0mm x 160.0mm x ~304.7mm (74.78°)


I think this should be correct. I'm not 100% sure though. should definitely be double (or tripple) checked. I guess I need to make a 3d model of it to be 100% sure. I thought I could do without.. but I really don't want to make a mistake so I guess it's better to make a 3d model.
...

UPDATE 1
..found a mistake: [4] should be 20mm longer (620mm)
UPDATE 2
(measurements in this post and the pic are now corrected)

diablojoy
Quote:
If anybody finds corners in that shape but in nickel please tell me where to get them. (8 of them are needed if you are doing the case with the cover)



try googling PENN engineering- roadcase hardware is a big part of what they do.
AssistiveListening
diablojoy wrote:
try googling PENN engineering- roadcase hardware is a big part of what they do.


...thx for the tip.. but they don't have them either..

BTW if anybody want's to make a case with black corners and latches.. here are two links. both are perfect from the shape... but in black

corners
http://www.ebay.de/itm/8-Mini-3-Leg-Metal-Corners-Black-Case-Speaker-C abinet-Amp-/380390540978?pt=US_Rack_Cases_Hard_Cases_Bags&hash=item589 10b06b2

latches
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Surface-Mount-ATA-Case-Latch-Lock-Flight-Case-D J-Coffin-Guitar-Case-Black-/221229728376?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Parts_Accesso ries&hash=item338251c278



flts
for case stuff, check if my local neighbourhood store has anything you need:

http://www.uraltone.com/kaappi-ja-case-tarvikkeet.html?___store=englis h&___from_store=suomi

they're nice people and ship abroad as well. if you find something they refuse to ship but that isn't very big, if worst comes to worst i can go pick up some stuff and mail it forward.

for example, they seem to have quite a few different kinds of "three legged" cabinet corners in both black and clear / chrome.

(they have a pretty nice selection of other music related DIY stuff as well - vactrols, ICs, passive components, knobs, etc... just don't buy their 1900h clones because they're complete crap)
AssistiveListening
flts wrote:
for case stuff, check if my local neighbourhood store has anything you need:

http://www.uraltone.com/kaappi-ja-case-tarvikkeet.html?___store=englis h&___from_store=suomi

they're nice people and ship abroad as well. if you find something they refuse to ship but that isn't very big, if worst comes to worst i can go pick up some stuff and mail it forward.

for example, they seem to have quite a few different kinds of "three legged" cabinet corners in both black and clear / chrome.

(they have a pretty nice selection of other music related DIY stuff as well - vactrols, ICs, passive components, knobs, etc... just don't buy their 1900h clones because they're complete crap)




They have these: http://www.uraltone.com/kaappi-ja-case-tarvikkeet/kulmaraudat/cabinet- corner-4007-three-leg-circa-26x26.html which are a little better but also not perfect. I will look at some other stuff from them though.. Hehe.. realising I'm really picky with getting this thing to look as original as possible.

Has anybody thought about making some caps for the faders? I was actually thinking about printing some (3d-print). Also does anybody have experience with 3d-printing? I guess there are a few people that would like caps on their faders. Maybe we can make a collective order.

I guess you've all seen these. http://www.synthpatchers.com/product/arp-2600-slider-knob-kit-caps/ ...but they probably won't fit...
adnauseam
AssistiveListening wrote:

Has anybody thought about making some caps for the faders? I was actually thinking about printing some (3d-print). Also does anybody have experience with 3d-printing? I guess there are a few people that would like caps on their faders. Maybe we can make a collective order.


I've got access to a 3D printer at a local hacker club. The issue there is nobody is skilled at modelling. It would be a plus if the fader caps had a transparent window to see the LEDs. I'm actually looking forward to having something to reach for in the dark.

Thanks for sharing the plans for your case! This makes getting assistance from my roommate with the tools A LOT easier as now he doesn't have to coach me through the design process.
AssistiveListening
adnauseam wrote:
I've got access to a 3D printer at a local hacker club. The issue there is nobody is skilled at modelling. It would be a plus if the fader caps had a transparent window to see the LEDs. I'm actually looking forward to having something to reach for in the dark.

Thanks for sharing the plans for your case! This makes getting assistance from my roommate with the tools A LOT easier as now he doesn't have to coach me through the design process.


I also have access to a 3d printer.. but if a few people need this it will make sense to have a company do this. I think there are like 57 sliders/TTSH. This adds up fast. Modeling isn't too hard, just something anybody can learn in a few hours/days.

I was thinking about using translucent but dark material so they look dark in the daylight but glow a little when the led is on.
LED-man
Where are the first pictures and questions from users they hold the ttsh kits ?
elmegil
Sliders shipping today, kits imminent w00t!!
Kipling
elmegil wrote:
Sliders shipping today, kits imminent w00t!!


Mine too! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners nanners nanners nanners
grizzle
Is it ok to socket the 3046's on the oscillators? The only problem I could see would be clearance which looks ok to me, but I wanted to ask just to be sure. I hate de-soldering...
AssistiveListening
New thread for the roadcase (so I don't flood this thread)

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1480678
diablojoy
Quote:
Has anybody thought about making some caps for the faders?

I had some thought to it a while ago but was leaning toward making a silicone mould and using casting resin.
3D printing would be way better but not so diy
dubnspace
Anyone in the U.S. have recommendations for the Reverb Tank and Speakers?
Thanks.
sduck
I bought the peerless speakers recommended by zthee from amazon - cheap too!

Still waiting on the reverb tank group buy, but may have to take another methods if it doesn't pan out.
ultravox
dubnspace wrote:
Anyone in the U.S. have recommendations for the Reverb Tank and Speakers?
Thanks.


Same as sduck, got my peerless speakers and also MOD 9AB2A1B reverb tank thru amazon.
adnauseam
Re: Peerless Speakers

I see these on ebay.
Nothing similar on Amazon.ca or any other good sites I know. Seems like my best bet. Free shipping, too!

Just gotta find the Reverb Tank and DC supply. Seems like Monobass (Thonk) is close to have rare parts kits available.
adnauseam
adnauseam wrote:
Just gotta find the Reverb Tank and DC supply. Seems like Monobass (Thonk) is close to have rare parts kits available.


Scratch that.. My naivete has proven annoying once again.

There are many parts not on the Mouser BOM. Bunch on the top half of the first page. Looks like I better go through my ebay folder to see what I still need.

This is my first build EVER so I'm praying it goes well and I don't forget any items and find myself waiting 3-4 weeks d'oh!
LED-man
has someone tried to fit in the panel Visaton Speakers yet ?
Cablebasher
Monobass (or anyone UK based):

Do you mind me asking where you got your DC/DC power converter, reverb tank and speakers from?

And also your on/off switch and MTAS?

I believe with all of the above (and the thonk kit, zthee bits and mouser BOM) i have everything?

Can't wait.
Monobass
Woop, mine turned up. The PCB is not nearly as daunting in person. Lots of calm empty space on it smile

Cablebasher wrote:
Monobass (or anyone UK based):

Do you mind me asking where you got your DC/DC power converter, reverb tank and speakers from?


Hey Cablebasher, well i don't actually have them yet smile I"m going to use a bench supply while I build it as I'm weighing up maybe using a linear supply instead, I almost bought the DC-DC brick from Mouser that Zthee recommended but decided to wait a little longer - http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK-Lambda/PXD3024WD15/?qs=%2fha2py FaduhnBhz80z7ICsG0%2fQFmtX8HlrZtpzHqW0mV4HrHFspzcg%3d%3d

It's over £50 so you'll get free shipping, and remember you don't pay any customs or duty on Mouser stuff.

speakers and reverb I'll leave until the very end... I can see me not ending up putting the speakers in tbh... maybe I will.

Cablebasher wrote:
And also your on/off switch and MTAS?


I managed to get the power switch on the original BOM, are they not in stock at Mouser anymore?

MTAs, well I stock short cable assemblies but they'll only satisfy probably half of the power run. So I guess I'd probably go to Rapid if I wanted a UK supplier.
LED-man
Have ordered 2x VISATON F 8SC-8

tomorrow i´m able to give a statement for the frontpanel mounting of this speaker.
http://www.reichelt.de/VIS-F-8SC-8/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=446&ARTIC LE=27960&artnr=VIS+F+8SC-8&SEARCH=VIS+F+8SC-8

DC-DC from mouser is tomorrow available too at home.

if someone needs black screws for the frontpanel, feel free to ask me for sale.
have M3 x 15mm and M3 x6mm in black at home -
http://www.tme.eu/de/details/b3x14_bn19/schrauben/bossard/1020544/#
http://www.tme.eu/de/details/b3x6_bn19/schrauben/bossard/1020498/#
Altitude909
antique electronic supply has the tanks. If they dont have them at the website, try the ebay store (where I got mine)
dubnspace
Altitude909 wrote:
antique electronic supply has the tanks. If they dont have them at the website, try the ebay store (where I got mine)

which model exactly, i don't see the exact part number listed on the BOM, but several that are similar. thanks.
Altitude909
dubnspace wrote:
Altitude909 wrote:
antique electronic supply has the tanks. If they dont have them at the website, try the ebay store (where I got mine)

which model exactly, i don't see the exact part number listed on the BOM, but several that are similar. thanks.


http://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-RBL2AB3C1B is the one in the BOM
Monobass
so. um.

drifton593
LED-man wrote:
has someone tried to fit in the panel Visaton Speakers yet ?

I tested today and Visaton F8sc fit perfectly smile
Kipling
Cablebasher wrote:
Monobass (or anyone UK based):

Do you mind me asking where you got your DC/DC power converter, reverb tank and speakers from?

And also your on/off switch and MTAS?

I believe with all of the above (and the thonk kit, zthee bits and mouser BOM) i have everything?

Can't wait.


I got my Peerless speakers from Audio Components http://www.audio-components.co.uk/store/productdetail.asp?ProductID=46 05, the reverb tank from Banzai (Germany) http://www.banzaimusic.com/Belton-RBL2AB3C1B.html and the 1A TDK DC/DC converter from Mouser http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK-Lambda/PXD3024WD15/?qs=F9A14TEL RMsaUvI6qgtF3g%3D%3D (only 4 left in stock - no more until June so get in quick).

I also got a main on/off switch when they had some (the /U version 633-CWT12AAS1/U) as they had them in stock at the time (late Jan). Neither version is due in stock until early May.

Hope this helps
scribble744
I was able to source the Peerless speakers in Canada here:

https://www.solen.ca/pub/index.php?catalog=description&nocol&nodiapo&s 1=1&s2=&s3=&id=2094&page=2094&nobut=1
Monobass
I've soldered all the IC sockets on the main board and resistors on the three VCO cores.

Main insight is that the big board is ok to handle so far! It doesn't move smile whereas the VCO board are more like what most of us are used to, they move about when you're soldering!

Now I'm wondering about resistors on the big board though, zthee said to solder from the top which makes a lot of sense.. But I guess I'm going to need to find something to rest it on so the resistor legs can hang down below hmmm.....

Anyway I can't really proceed until my main mouser order arrives on Friday with all those funny resistor values.
woodster
I remember thinking the same, and discussing this with you.
Maybe you have to pre snip resistor wires, like Ray Wilson suggests in his Make Analog Synths book (so as not to apply undue stress to solder joints by snipping), either that, or just bend the legs so they are flat ?
Intrigued to see how you get on...
StillNotWorking
woodster wrote:
I remember thinking the same, and discussing this with you.
Maybe you have to pre snip resistor wires, like Ray Wilson suggests in his Make Analog Synths book (so as not to apply undue stress to solder joints by snipping), either that, or just bend the legs so they are flat ?
Intrigued to see how you get on...


Actually there is a reason not to snip the legs before soldering when it comes to components prone to heat. Like caps, diodes and transistors. The leg will take some of the heat from the fragile inside of the component. For very fragile parts one will find recommendation to clamp on a small crocodile clamp to the leg to help cooling. A very common fault beginners do when soldering kits are overheating capacitors.

Although we can safely say that any good resistors should not have a problem with this.

I guess we will work the PCB board in sections. I'm thinking a stack of books underneath the PCB will probably do the trick?
LED-man
Vco section:
online building doducmentation shows 1x 61k9
Pcb have 2x 61k9
(For each)
the BOM have 8x 61k9, but not sure where needs the other 61k9 resistors
@zthee please correct:
http://thehumancomparator.net/4027-2/
Altitude909
Monobass wrote:
I've soldered all the IC sockets on the main board and resistors on the three VCO cores.

Main insight is that the big board is ok to handle so far! It doesn't move smile whereas the VCO board are more like what most of us are used to, they move about when you're soldering!

Now I'm wondering about resistors on the big board though, zthee said to solder from the top which makes a lot of sense.. But I guess I'm going to need to find something to rest it on so the resistor legs can hang down below hmmm.....

Anyway I can't really proceed until my main mouser order arrives on Friday with all those funny resistor values.


What I did with my MB808 board (which was huge as well) was to make 2" legs (just cut some 1/4" acrylic rod I had in the shop to length and tapped one end) and placed them in all stand off holes so I could easily rest it on the table top and stuff components while having the PCB raised
xpander
Is there any advantage to using the 30W 1A TDK DC-DC convertor ($104) over the 15W .5A Artesyn one ($37 USD)?
Kipling
xpander wrote:
Is there any advantage to using the 30W 1A TDK DC-DC convertor ($104) over the 15W .5A Artesyn one ($37 USD)?


Not sure what the total current load of the TTSH is, but if you plan to use the power supply to power anything else, like a CV/Gate keyboard or midi > CV/Gate converter, or indeed plan to crank the speaker volume up to 11, then I'd go for the 1A version.
xpander
Kipling wrote:
xpander wrote:
Is there any advantage to using the 30W 1A TDK DC-DC convertor ($104) over the 15W .5A Artesyn one ($37 USD)?


Not sure what the total current load of the TTSH is, but if you plan to use the power supply to power anything else, like a CV/Gate keyboard or midi > CV/Gate converter, or indeed plan to crank the speaker volume up to 11, then I'd go for the 1A version.

1A it is!

for those interested: i worked with Jon in spec'ing out what should be the absolute ideal spring reverbs for the TTSH and have a bunch on order- i intend to keep them constantly available and available for cheap.
Clemdu
Quote:
for those interested: i worked with Jon in spec'ing out what should be the absolute ideal spring reverbs for the TTSH and have a bunch on order- i intend to keep them constantly available and available for cheap.


All I wanted to hear, great ! thumbs up
Cablebasher
So I got an email from Mouser saying that the following item:

511-TDA2030AV
TDA2030AV
Audio Amplifiers 18W Hi-Fi Amplifier
STMicroelectronics

is now obsolete and so has been removed from my order.

Does anyone know an alternative?

Has this happened to others on their mouser order?

Thanks. As always.
flts
TDA2030 is still available from plenty of retailers, both evilbay and electronics stores like Tayda or Musikding.

http://www.taydaelectronics.com/tda2030a-tda2030-18w-hi-fi-amplifier-3 5w-driver-ic.html
http://www.musikding.de/TDA2030A_1

You just can't get it from Mouser anymore. I have no idea if there are ~drop-in alternatives or not, someone wiser than me may want to chime in here.
latigid on
TDA2030 is part of the thonk rare parts kit I think.
Cablebasher
Your right!

It is part of the thonk kit.

Ignore me.
Cablebasher
Hey fellows,

Do you think these would do as the MTAs (the first 2 items on the TTSH BOM)

http://www.banzaimusic.com/PCB-Connector-25-3G.html

http://www.banzaimusic.com/PCB-Connector-25-2G.html

The link on the TTSH BOM to the musikding MTAs now says they are out of stock.

The problem with the banzai ones is it doesn't say how long they are. Are they possibly 25 cm?

Is that long enough? The links on the BOM are for 30cm.

Also, did we ever find out how many of each we need, the BOM has 2 different quantities for each MTA. Which is right?

Its so close now I can almost hear it!!!
StillNotWorking
Cablebasher wrote:

Its so close now I can almost hear it!!!


With my usual speed Korg will had they're release party long before I've boxed my TTSH.
Morbid
Question about these SMT caps.
BOM says 100nf but the Mouser part number is for 10nf.
I guess they are for decoupling?
So does it work anyway?
elmegil
Morbid wrote:
Question about these SMT caps.
BOM says 100nf but the Mouser part number is for 10nf.
I guess they are for decoupling?
So does it work anyway?


yah, this comes up periodically, and that's exactly it.
Morbid
elmegil wrote:
Morbid wrote:
Question about these SMT caps.
BOM says 100nf but the Mouser part number is for 10nf.
I guess they are for decoupling?
So does it work anyway?


yah, this comes up periodically, and that's exactly it.


Thanks, already done.
I thought the SMT stuff would be the hardest part.
But it was quite easy
Soldering these headers in the right position sucks hard. Dead Banana
Kipling
Cablebasher wrote:
Hey fellows,

Do you think these would do as the MTAs (the first 2 items on the TTSH BOM)

http://www.banzaimusic.com/PCB-Connector-25-3G.html

http://www.banzaimusic.com/PCB-Connector-25-2G.html

The link on the TTSH BOM to the musikding MTAs now says they are out of stock.

The problem with the banzai ones is it doesn't say how long they are. Are they possibly 25 cm?

Is that long enough? The links on the BOM are for 30cm.

Also, did we ever find out how many of each we need, the BOM has 2 different quantities for each MTA. Which is right?

Its so close now I can almost hear it!!!


I think it would be reasonable to assume they are 3 and 2 gang 25cm respectively.

There are I believe 12 3-pin power headers on the board, located slightly off-centre so may be a little short at 25cm to reach all destinations. The audio output jack will need one too making 13 in total (hope I haven't missed any others). You can easily make your own from female housings (usually sold individually) and the crimped contacts (sold in strips of 100) which are available from many sources if a few of them turn out to be short.

The 2-pin ones are probably for the speakers and power input socket, main on/off switch, LED and anything else mounted on the case/front panel that doesn't immediately spring to mind, possibly the spring reverb tank too.

They're so cheap buy more than you think you'll need.
xpander
Cablebasher wrote:
So I got an email from Mouser saying that the following item:

511-TDA2030AV
TDA2030AV
Audio Amplifiers 18W Hi-Fi Amplifier
STMicroelectronics

is now obsolete and so has been removed from my order.

Does anyone know an alternative?

for those who didn't see, zthee wrote several pages back:

The TDA2030 can be replaced with LM1875.
Kipling
xpander wrote:
Cablebasher wrote:
So I got an email from Mouser saying that the following item:

511-TDA2030AV
TDA2030AV
Audio Amplifiers 18W Hi-Fi Amplifier
STMicroelectronics

is now obsolete and so has been removed from my order.

Does anyone know an alternative?

for those who didn't see, zthee wrote several pages back:

The TDA2030 can be replaced with LM1875.

Or you can still get the TDA2030 from several other sources if you want to stick to the original part.
LED-man
Visaton F8 SC works great behind the panel.
Drillholes match with panel.
Each 10€

grizzle
The BOM says 10 4k7, and should be 11.
grizzle
I noticed that for the 100n caps there are two entries in the BOM. First is for 26 and the second is for 4. The entry for 4 are for 5% caps, and the 26 is for 10%. I found 28 spots for 100n caps on the board, not for 30. Any ideas? I have a bunch of 5% 100n caps that I can use, but I'm not sure how to tell the difference. Any ideas?
Morbid
Did someone builds the PSU already?
The silkscreen ( after the DC-DC converter) for + and - is reversed.
Can somebody confirm that?
limpmeat
So the bom isn't correct? Damn I just ordered all the parts from 3 different sites, took me ages :(
D.Sabotage
scribble744 wrote:
I was able to source the Peerless speakers in Canada here:

https://www.solen.ca/pub/index.php?catalog=description&nocol&nodiapo&s 1=1&s2=&s3=&id=2094&page=2094&nobut=1


Cool, they're 20 mins away from where I live. Thanks
ultravox
Day 1 complete: All sockets installed on the big board and completed the 4027-1's. The SMD's looked like grains of sand in my big mitts but I got them installed using the hot air section of my iron. Also used the hot air for the CA3046's.

I had to get creative on installing the headers. I inserted the headers in the Osc boards and placed them upside down on the edges of two small pieces of 1/2" plywood. This made the headers float free and they were exactly level with the solder pads on the back of the Osc boards. They were machine perfect after soldering. thumbs up

Today I'll go for the PSU and VCO's. I don't have an O'scope yet but I'll try to find one today.

Cheers!



Morbid
hmmm.....
Morbid wrote:
Did someone build the PSU already?
The silkscreen ( after the DC-DC converter) for + and - is reversed.
Can somebody confirm that?


hmmm..... FUUUCCKKKK!!!
Heavy Metal Kid
What are people's opinions on installing the tempco, did ultravox do it in the optimal manner in the image above? I recently built the Thomas Henry 555VCO and there I put the tempco on top of the tranistors and added glue.

ultravox wrote:
LED-man
Morbid wrote:
Did someone builds the PSU already?
The silkscreen ( after the DC-DC converter) for + and - is reversed.
Can somebody confirm that?


Yes is wrong silkscreened..
But if you x -cross the ferrite beads you have the correct result on the output header.
roglok
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
What are people's opinions on installing the tempco, did ultravox do it in the optimal manner in the image above? I recently built the Thomas Henry 555VCO and there I put the tempco on top of the tranistors and added glue.



air is not a great thermal conductor. ideally the tempco and transistors would be coupled with thermal paste or epoxy... ymmv
Kipling
LED-man wrote:
Morbid wrote:
Did someone builds the PSU already?
The silkscreen ( after the DC-DC converter) for + and - is reversed.
Can somebody confirm that?


Yes is wrong silkscreened..
But if you x -cross the ferrite beads you have the correct result on the output header.


Which of the two DC/DC converters have you used? Does the error apply to both the recommended types as I think they have different pin layouts?
Heavy Metal Kid
roglok wrote:
air is not a great thermal conductor. ideally the tempco and transistors would be coupled with thermal paste or epoxy... ymmv


Thanks!
Morbid
@Kipling.
I use the cheap one from ASTEC.
It is recommended.
So since there is no note in the building guide i think thats just an error on the silkscreen.

@Led Man
Nice solution 8_) .
ultravox
roglok wrote:
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
What are people's opinions on installing the tempco, did ultravox do it in the optimal manner in the image above? I recently built the Thomas Henry 555VCO and there I put the tempco on top of the tranistors and added glue.



air is not a great thermal conductor. ideally the tempco and transistors would be coupled with thermal paste or epoxy... ymmv


I was actually thinking about coupling the transistors and tempco with a thermal compound when I put it together. It didn't look like Zthee used a paste and he wrote just to push everything together in the 4027 build document so I followed suite. If the consensus is to use a thermal paste then I'm onboard with that. Got any brand recommendations?
ultravox
Morbid wrote:
@Kipling.
I use the cheap one from ASTEC.
It is recommended.
So since there is no note in the building guide i think thats just an error on the silkscreen.

@Led Man
Nice solution 8_) .


I used the TDK Lambda and the power is reversed on that one too. I was thinking I screwed it up somehow but the power supply only has a couple of components and the DC/DC converter goes in only one way. 8_)

Is the silk screen on the power supply reversed or is the screening reversed on the whole board? seriously, i just don't get it
diablojoy
I no longer recommend using thermal grease most are electrically conductive and tend to creep over time which can cause major issues which are really hard to track down.
better to use a non conductive epoxy , bend some thin ally into shape to pyhsically hold them together or just use tape and bind them together.
of those i think bending some thin ally is probaby the best solution overall
elmegil
diablojoy wrote:
I no longer recommend using thermal grease most are electrically conductive and tend to creep over time which can cause major issues which are really hard to track down.
better to use a non conductive epoxy , bend some thin ally into shape to pyhsically hold them together or just use tape and bind them together.
of those i think bending some thin ally is probaby the best solution overall


Any special kind of epoxy? I've heard folks call out "thermal epoxy" but I have no idea what to look for.

I use Arctic Silver paste which is CPU paste, and claims to be non conductive. But it will eventually run out....
sduck
ultravox wrote:
roglok wrote:
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
What are people's opinions on installing the tempco, did ultravox do it in the optimal manner in the image above? I recently built the Thomas Henry 555VCO and there I put the tempco on top of the tranistors and added glue.



air is not a great thermal conductor. ideally the tempco and transistors would be coupled with thermal paste or epoxy... ymmv


I was actually thinking about coupling the transistors and tempco with a thermal compound when I put it together. It didn't look like Zthee used a paste and he wrote just to push everything together in the 4027 build document so I followed suite. If the consensus is to use a thermal paste then I'm onboard with that. Got any brand recommendations?


I've been using the cheapo stuff radio shack sells for ages - never seen the problems diablojoy reports, but I can imagine that happening. I use it sparingly, and carefully so it's a long way from any chance of contacting any electrical contacts.
decaying.sine
sduck wrote:
ultravox wrote:
roglok wrote:
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
What are people's opinions on installing the tempco, did ultravox do it in the optimal manner in the image above? I recently built the Thomas Henry 555VCO and there I put the tempco on top of the tranistors and added glue.



air is not a great thermal conductor. ideally the tempco and transistors would be coupled with thermal paste or epoxy... ymmv


I was actually thinking about coupling the transistors and tempco with a thermal compound when I put it together. It didn't look like Zthee used a paste and he wrote just to push everything together in the 4027 build document so I followed suite. If the consensus is to use a thermal paste then I'm onboard with that. Got any brand recommendations?


I've been using the cheapo stuff radio shack sells for ages - never seen the problems diablojoy reports, but I can imagine that happening. I use it sparingly, and carefully so it's a long way from any chance of contacting any electrical contacts.


Same here. Used it on 100s of modules. Really nice quality, as it turns out.

grizzle
Does anyone know whether or not this will work for power? I'm having trouble finding anything above 12v that is 1.5 amps.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Xicon/412-112153/?qs=KNqTOjfZsd9ns 5zhxEix%252bA%3d%3d
ultravox
decaying.sine wrote:
sduck wrote:
ultravox wrote:
roglok wrote:
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
What are people's opinions on installing the tempco, did ultravox do it in the optimal manner in the image above? I recently built the Thomas Henry 555VCO and there I put the tempco on top of the tranistors and added glue.



air is not a great thermal conductor. ideally the tempco and transistors would be coupled with thermal paste or epoxy... ymmv


I was actually thinking about coupling the transistors and tempco with a thermal compound when I put it together. It didn't look like Zthee used a paste and he wrote just to push everything together in the 4027 build document so I followed suite. If the consensus is to use a thermal paste then I'm onboard with that. Got any brand recommendations?


I've been using the cheapo stuff radio shack sells for ages - never seen the problems diablojoy reports, but I can imagine that happening. I use it sparingly, and carefully so it's a long way from any chance of contacting any electrical contacts.


Same here. Used it on 100s of modules. Really nice quality, as it turns out.



Thanks mate, I'll grab some in the morning!

Cheers!
Kipling
I have some self-adhesive copper tape (try DCC modelling suppliers) which I was thinking of cutting to the right width and winding a couple of layers around the back-to-back transistor pairs, but my only concern is if the adhesive dries out eventually it may drop onto the pins. I could put a tiny cable tie around them I suppose but not against a Tempco, unless I bound the three items together with a couple of them and a small blob of thermal compound between Tempco and copper.

Any thoughts?
latigid on
Silicone thermal paste should never become electrically conductive, arctic silver contains, well, silver and quite probably is conductive.

For the DC-DC converter I had a mind to go for a linear solution, but for that you would really be pushing 1.5A per rail (lots of LEDs...) i.e. a whole PSU2 au Doepfer. To run your own linear PSU inside the TTSH you'd need hefty heatsinks, I guess you could use the entire back panel for passive distribution but the heat has to go somewhere and could really upset the tuning.
elmegil
http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm

"Not Electrically Conductive:
Arctic Silver 5 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity.
(While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 5 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is very slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.)"
gslug
latigid on wrote:
For the DC-DC converter I had a mind to go for a linear solution, but for that you would really be pushing 1.5A per rail (lots of LEDs...) i.e. a whole PSU2 au Doepfer. To run your own linear PSU inside the TTSH you'd need hefty heatsinks, I guess you could use the entire back panel for passive distribution but the heat has to go somewhere and could really upset the tuning.


I was also thinking about an internal linear PSU, but as I have a spare +/-15 volt Meanwell switcher, I'll give that a try. I hate external bricks/wall warts.
tojpeters
Has anyone confirmed the polarity mistake on the PCB?
This is a big deal.
All mistakes need to be confirmed and added to the first post.
LED-man
To get a correct pinout like the silkscreen i have crossed the ferrite beads. . Works fine.

tojpeters
I checked the mechanical drawing of the dc-dc convertor and the silkscreen. The 12 headers for the output of the PSU are labeled backwards. The above solution of crossing the ferrite beads seems reasonable.
Altitude909
^

So is the silk screen just wrong or is the part wired backwards? If just silk screen is wrong, there should be no reason to switch the polarity of the input
flts
latigid on wrote:
For the DC-DC converter I had a mind to go for a linear solution, but for that you would really be pushing 1.5A per rail (lots of LEDs...) i.e. a whole PSU2 au Doepfer.


Are you sure about that? Zthee mentioned about the proto that "If the speakers are off and the LEDs are on, the draw is about V+ 300mA, V- 250mA." - add to that whatever power the speaker amps eat up which isn't going to be negligible but... The smaller of the recommended switching DC-DC converters is something like 0.5A per rail. A full linear PSU will most probably be less efficient so you'd probably need to have a bit more power to spare. Maybe not so much less efficient that you'd need a whole 1A more per rail though?

FWIW, I have a Power One +-15V @ 0.8A per rail (HAA15-0.8-A) that I thought would provide adequate amount of power for at least the TTSH and possibly a single channel MIDI/CV interface. I'm not using the metal case though, going to build my own roadcase / fit the panel to an existing one so shouldn't be a problem to fit into case. This would be a good time to tell me it probably won't be enough lol

tojpeters wrote:
Has anyone confirmed the polarity mistake on the PCB?
This is a big deal.
All mistakes need to be confirmed and added to the first post.


I will add this to the first post if someone can confirm it isn't a misunderstanding but an actual mistake... Based on LED-man's findings, it does look like that?
ultravox
LED-man wrote:
To get a correct pinout like the silkscreen i have crossed the ferrite beads. . Works fine.



Looks like Zthee's confirmed it on his website: "We must cross the streams."
Altitude909
..
flts
I've added a fair warning to the first post about the polarity issue. Always consult the build docs on the official site for any errors - I'm just trying to document commonly encountered issues in this thread (and if there any you think would be useful to add, please PM me or mention about it on this thread).
tojpeters
it is the headers that are mismarked
ddegraaf
Just unboxed my TTSH.... jumping in to say that I'm following the polarity error conversation closely and have been since first mention of it (because thats a great way to fry all those components you just stuffed!) , so thanks for all the conversation about it because that is in fact very important. Without metering I can blatantly see the trace from the dcdc converter + clearly goes directly right into the - headers. woah

That being said, this forum is going to be invaluable in working out the kinks that will inevitably present themselves. Thanks everyone for staying on top of it and sharing your findings.
xpander
from thehumancomparator.net:



regardless, the Ghostbusters warned against crossing streams.
Heavy Metal Kid
Weird that this error wasn't caught during the "beta" builds?
xpander
for those of us sourcing screws, i forgot this was a feature on those multi-cutters we all own:

(SKIP TO 0:46)

satindas
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
Weird that this error wasn't caught during the "beta" builds?
Could it be that the beta builds weren't using the same boards as we'll be receiving. How do you even get started with reversed +/-? Very weird indeed!
reggiechacha
Took me an hour of scratching my head hmmm..... to realise the +15v needed for testing osc 1 also applies when testing the Osc 2 signal.
elmegil
xpander wrote:
for those of us sourcing screws, i forgot this was a feature on those multi-cutters we all own:


Awesome!

Of course, mine are all english threads rather than metric, but it's likely going to be easier for me to source a metric one than a bunch of different length bolts.
sduck
Kipling wrote:
I have some self-adhesive copper tape (try DCC modelling suppliers) which I was thinking of cutting to the right width and winding a couple of layers around the back-to-back transistor pairs, but my only concern is if the adhesive dries out eventually it may drop onto the pins. I could put a tiny cable tie around them I suppose but not against a Tempco, unless I bound the three items together with a couple of them and a small blob of thermal compound between Tempco and copper.

Any thoughts?


I wouldn't use that copper stuff for this application. That's some cheapo glue on it - designed to be used by guitar builders and such for fast and secure adhesion, not necessarily cleanliness.

I've use shrink wrap tubing, cut into tiny little pieces, for this in the past.
elmegil
flts wrote:
Kipling wrote:
So just the NKK rocker switch and sliders outstanding for most people then. I have the rocker but no sliders yet, and of course nothing to solder them into just yet....

Been looking at the rocker switch and it seems to have no peers at least not by NKK, given that it's very slim. There are others of the same length but none that slim.


Yeah, I'm kind of interested in whether there's another option for this one. In case the specific part is pretty much out of stock everywhere (seems to be) and it wasn't in the original Mouser cart (at least couldn't see it there), there is going to be one single very specific part that will be missing from a complete build in my case. So it would be cool to hear if there are alternate parts or sources.


I just did another troll around the net, and no leads on an equivalent part. Anyone else?
Kipling
elmegil wrote:
flts wrote:
Kipling wrote:
So just the NKK rocker switch and sliders outstanding for most people then. I have the rocker but no sliders yet, and of course nothing to solder them into just yet....

Been looking at the rocker switch and it seems to have no peers at least not by NKK, given that it's very slim. There are others of the same length but none that slim.


Yeah, I'm kind of interested in whether there's another option for this one. In case the specific part is pretty much out of stock everywhere (seems to be) and it wasn't in the original Mouser cart (at least couldn't see it there), there is going to be one single very specific part that will be missing from a complete build in my case. So it would be cool to hear if there are alternate parts or sources.


I just did another troll around the net, and no leads on an equivalent part. Anyone else?


Quite a few people are going to have leads hanging out the front of the case to a temporary switch of some description by the sound of it, until they come back into stock in a couple of months.

Glad I was one of the lucky ones It's peanut butter jelly time! , but then I don't have my TTSH yet so can't use it... sad banana
xpander
Am i missing something? All of the sliders & switches are in stock at Mouser.
Kipling
xpander wrote:
Am i missing something? All of the sliders & switches are in stock at Mouser.


Spot on (except the main on/off switch which wasn't on the BOM) - my orders are now complete and in my grubby hands nanners
flts
xpander wrote:
Am i missing something? All of the sliders & switches are in stock at Mouser.


The front panel power switch was missing from the original Mouser cart. Part number CWT12AAS1, seems that Mouser estimates more to come on 1st of May and nobody's figured out an alternate source (Digikey has it in catalog but doesn't seem to actually stock them) so far it seems.

edit: Arrow seems to have them in stock, but they do not serve private persons, only companies.

edit 2:

There seem to be some other options for panel-mount snap-in switches with around the same mounting hole (19.2 mm x 6.8 mm) if you google for it, haven't found any definitive winner yet but it's not totally uncommon footprint. If worst comes to worst and you're impatient enough not to want to wait until Mouser restocks the NKK switch, it probably won't be a big issue to file the power switch hole a tiny bit to accommodate for a slightly larger switch either, since the switch assembly's edges will hide any imperfections.
Altitude909
Why is the power switch even an issue? There are like 10 different manufactures that make the same part, take your pick.

Arrow will sell to anyone, do it all the time. http://www.arrownac.com/
flts
Altitude909 wrote:
Why is the power switch even an issue? There are like 10 different manufactures that make the same part, take your pick.

Arrow will sell to anyone, do it all the time. http://www.arrownac.com/


Yeah, I suppose my google-fu failed me here, couldn't initially find anything with the same footprint (it's a quite small / slim one) but now I suddenly started finding more hits.

Also thanks, good to know about Arrow. It seems the shipping cost to Finland could be prohibitively expensive from them though so maybe I'll just check the alternatives.
xpmtl
28$ shipping for a 2.95$ switch smile thanks Arrow
flts
Marquardt 1901 might be a good drop-in. Same mounting hole, usable as a power switch. They have several different models, for example the plain one with code 1901.1103 (in stock at Mouser).
elmegil
Altitude909 wrote:
Why is the power switch even an issue? There are like 10 different manufactures that make the same part, take your pick.

Arrow will sell to anyone, do it all the time. http://www.arrownac.com/


The question is what fits 19.2 x 6.8 mm. I googled for that and only came up with NKK switches, and no one has that switch in stock that I could find.

Feel free to list the manufacturers and part numbers that make that same part :-D
Heavy Metal Kid
There is a discrepancy between the building document and the Mouser cart when it comes to the 3x2 SMD capacitors that go on the VCO sub boards!

- The build document says "100n x 2 (SMD)".

- The Mouser cart includes "Multilayer Ceramic Capacitors MLCC - SMD/SMT 0805 0.01uF 25volts ".

The problem is that 100nF is not the same as 0.01uF!

Which value is the correct one? I'm hoping for the 10nF/0.01uF that Mouser already delivered...

Edit: OK, found an answer from earlier in the thread.

elmegil wrote:
Morbid wrote:
Question about these SMT caps.
BOM says 100nf but the Mouser part number is for 10nf.
I guess they are for decoupling?
So does it work anyway?


yah, this comes up periodically, and that's exactly it.
flts
elmegil wrote:
The question is what fits 19.2 x 6.8 mm. I googled for that and only came up with NKK switches, and no one has that switch in stock that I could find.

Feel free to list the manufacturers and part numbers that make that same part :-D


http://fi.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Marquardt-Switches/19011103/?qs=4EO vy6wCNnumpe64P0pJgw==

The datasheet confirms that the mounting hole size is the same. 209 in stock and probably found at other retailers as well.
Heavy Metal Kid
LED-man wrote:
To get a correct pinout like the silkscreen i have crossed the ferrite beads. . Works fine.



Is it necessary to isolate the ferrites from each other since they are no crossed? I'm guessing no, since they'd still possibly be touching each other if they were parallel on the PCB as intended.
elmegil
flts wrote:
elmegil wrote:
The question is what fits 19.2 x 6.8 mm. I googled for that and only came up with NKK switches, and no one has that switch in stock that I could find.

Feel free to list the manufacturers and part numbers that make that same part :-D


http://fi.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Marquardt-Switches/19011103/?qs=4EO vy6wCNnumpe64P0pJgw==

The datasheet confirms that the mounting hole size is the same. 209 in stock and probably found at other retailers as well.


Thanks!!

I actually had gone searching and found the Marquardt 1901 after you mentioned it. It's cheaper at Jameco too....
flts
Np... I now found comparable models from Arcoelectric and Canal Electronic as well, making an order from TME (a big Polish retailer who happens to deliver to Finland quickly and cheaply) that stocks those so I added a few to cart.
latigid on
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
LED-man wrote:
To get a correct pinout like the silkscreen i have crossed the ferrite beads. . Works fine.



Is it necessary to isolate the ferrites from each other since they are no crossed? I'm guessing no, since they'd still possibly be touching each other if they were parallel on the PCB as intended.


Better: put one on the top layer and one on the bottom!! Guinness ftw! thumbs up
Altitude909
for people still looking for the switch:

http://components.arrow.com/part/detail/18692612S6538887N1182

uk

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/miscellaneous/2550081747/
Heavy Metal Kid
latigid on wrote:
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
Is it necessary to isolate the ferrites from each other since they are no crossed? I'm guessing no, since they'd still possibly be touching each other if they were parallel on the PCB as intended.


Better: put one on the top layer and one on the bottom!! Guinness ftw! thumbs up


Genius! Animal!
Widy75
hi
i finished the build ....4 day of work ( without case )
some pics can found here https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.738704959497422.1073741828.1 00000737739948&type=3

i got one problem:
silder leds are not all illuminated smile in detail ( VCA , Noise ) no leds illuminated ( the modules itself are working )

if i messure for e.g leds from other modules the voltage drop on a led is 1,8-1,9V .. on the not illuminated leds the volte drop is 1,6 ....

didnt messure the current so fare becuase i want break the circute

didn't figger out the problem right now ... i only tested module per module not connecte all togehter right now .. maybe this is the probelm

lg
widy
Monobass
yeah but you are the first confirmed TTSH build in the wild! applause
M-Circus
Nice pictures! Haven't had the energy to start thinking about building mine yet… hihi
flts
edit: nevermind, just noise. congrats!
Widy75
M-Circus wrote:
Nice pictures! Haven't had the energy to start thinking about building mine yet… hihi

thx i did 18000 pics in total during the build ... i will do a timelapse video if i had recorded some nice tunes smile.. video itself is finihed so far .. only waiting for some nice sounds smile if everyone has some nice sounds fom ttsh and would bring it into a time laps build video pls send it to me or give me a pm smile
lg widy
LED-man
delete- browsersession failure
LED-man
LED-man wrote:
Widy75 wrote:
hi
i finished the build ....4 day of work ( without case )
some pics can found here https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.738704959497422.1073741828.1 00000737739948&type=3



lg
widy


,


Hi Widy
gratulation to your Build.

have documented "few" Infos here:

http://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+Building+documentation
LED-man
double post
LED-man
--
LED-man
sorry, but something goes wrong here with my browsersession !
ultravox
Widy75 wrote:
hi
i finished the build ....4 day of work ( without case )
some pics can found here https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.738704959497422.1073741828.1 00000737739948&type=3

lg
widy


Excellent!! thumbs up

Cheers mate!
Heavy Metal Kid
Please make the pictures available to those of us who don't have Facebook accounts!
Widy75
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
Please make the pictures available to those of us who don't have Facebook accounts!

sry .. i set it to public. i didnt know that no fb user cant see it

however uploading here ends in resizing issues but for sure a time lapse video of the build will come on my yt channel widy75 ( as usual ) as soon i recorded some nice tunes with the ttsh

lg widy

ps:pls go to fb .. i will add u smile
ultravox
I'm thinking of sticking MIDImplant inside the TTSH. Anyone know if it will it give +10V ADSR triggers if I power it from the 15V DC-DC converter?

Cheers!
tojpeters
Congrats on finishing a unit. Any BOM errors you'd like to mention?
Widy75
tojpeters wrote:
Congrats on finishing a unit. Any BOM errors you'd like to mention?

dsl-man did the summary on the hp
http://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+Building+documentation

my build
1x BC558b S&H missing ( need 9 .. BOM say 8 .. in summary)
1x 150K S&H missing ( not in building doc but on pcb)
1x100p ( missing part for psu )

parts left after build:
------------------------
1x15K
1x47K
1x1M2
2x100N Keramik
1x3p3 Keramik
1x1M Slider

lg widy
flts
ultravox wrote:
I'm thinking of sticking MIDImplant inside the TTSH. Anyone know if it will it give +10V ADSR triggers if I power it from the 15V DC-DC converter?

Cheers!


Check out the MIDIimplant site:

"Gate output with V-trigger type of gating signal. User selected on-state: power supply level or 0V"

So if you power it from the +15V rail, you'll get around +15V gate. You can then attenuate it closer to +10V if that's too much.

Edit: ordered two for TTSH + one other project, so I suppose I'll find out soon enough...
roglok
flts wrote:
ultravox wrote:
I'm thinking of sticking MIDImplant inside the TTSH. Anyone know if it will it give +10V ADSR triggers if I power it from the 15V DC-DC converter?

Cheers!


Check out the MIDIimplant site:

"Gate output with V-trigger type of gating signal. User selected on-state: power supply level or 0V"

So if you power it from the +15V rail, you'll get around +15V gate. You can then attenuate it closer to +10V if that's too much.

Edit: ordered two for TTSH + one other project, so I suppose I'll find out soon enough...


if you are planning to control it via MIDI only, your solution makes sense. if you want to also use other gear and make it more compatible, I'd add a comparator for each gate/trigger input on the TTSH...
nickster
flts wrote:
ultravox wrote:
I'm thinking of sticking MIDImplant inside the TTSH. Anyone know if it will it give +10V ADSR triggers if I power it from the 15V DC-DC converter?

Cheers!


Check out the MIDIimplant site:

"Gate output with V-trigger type of gating signal. User selected on-state: power supply level or 0V"

So if you power it from the +15V rail, you'll get around +15V gate. You can then attenuate it closer to +10V if that's too much.

Edit: ordered two for TTSH + one other project, so I suppose I'll find out soon enough...


Out of interest which DC-DC converter do you plan on using with the MIDI Implant? The cheaper Mouser one or the more expensive one?
Widy75
ok my led problems are solved

1)my psu did not provide the right current
2)and there was a trimmer on the left led driver smile
3)and i solder the R for the noise and left amp led driver to an other ground ( there is an other hole beside the R on the left amp smile because the grounds are not all connected together

lg widy
ultravox
nickster wrote:
flts wrote:
ultravox wrote:
I'm thinking of sticking MIDImplant inside the TTSH. Anyone know if it will it give +10V ADSR triggers if I power it from the 15V DC-DC converter?

Cheers!


Check out the MIDIimplant site:

"Gate output with V-trigger type of gating signal. User selected on-state: power supply level or 0V"

So if you power it from the +15V rail, you'll get around +15V gate. You can then attenuate it closer to +10V if that's too much.

Edit: ordered two for TTSH + one other project, so I suppose I'll find out soon enough...


Out of interest which DC-DC converter do you plan on using with the MIDI Implant? The cheaper Mouser one or the more expensive one?


I have the expensive one: TDK-Lambda. Any thoughts?

Edit: I just ordered MIDImplant. My goal is for TTSH to have basic MIDI functionality built it.
flts
roglok wrote:
if you are planning to control it via MIDI only, your solution makes sense. if you want to also use other gear and make it more compatible, I'd add a comparator for each gate/trigger input on the TTSH...


True. I'll probably just leave the gate/trigger inputs unmodified since the only other pieces of interfaceable gear I have are Microbrute and a bunch of Wiard 300 which should all be able of to gate/trigger the TTSH I suppose.

I was planning to build the MIDIimplant connections (no internal normalization) and a power connector for the linear PSU to a separate strip of metal somewhere in my DIY case once I get everything else done, though. That would enable me to wire one or more Utility Comparators -tm- to the empty space in the strip in case in case I end up needing them later.
flts
ultravox wrote:
nickster wrote:
Out of interest which DC-DC converter do you plan on using with the MIDI Implant? The cheaper Mouser one or the more expensive one?


I have the expensive one: TDK-Lambda. Any thoughts?

Edit: I just ordered MIDImplant. My goal is for TTSH to have basic MIDI functionality built it.


I'll be using a Power One linear supply myself since I'm a bit wary of switch mode DC-DC converter specifications, and like having an internal power supply with no wall warts. I'm also going to build the TTSH to a plywood roadcase though, so there'll be some more room for the PSU than in TTSH's compact metal case.

However - if this was nickster's question - according to the manual available on the site, MIDIimplant would only require around 2mA of power which can be tapped directly from the +15V DC rail. It's designed to be sort of a mini retrofit to existing synths anyway - no extra leds to blink, LCD screens to drive et cetera. You configure it to your liking via MIDI SysEx and that's it.

So if the TTSH itself runs fine with either of the converters (which it should since they've been tested for the purpose), I believe 2mA extra is definitely not going to overload the PSU. So I'd suppose you would be fine with either of the recommended DC-DC converters in that sense, unless you want to build something else extra to the same unit.
nickster
Thanks flts, that was exactly my concern. It felt as though the cheaper DC-DC converter should be able to power the MIDIimplant without any problem. But this is early in the game for me and I wanted to be sure before ordering either of these items. Thanks again for the help we're not worthy
elmegil
roglok wrote:
if you are planning to control it via MIDI only, your solution makes sense. if you want to also use other gear and make it more compatible, I'd add a comparator for each gate/trigger input on the TTSH...


I'd swear this has been discussed before, but I just reviewed this whole thread and I'm not prepared to do all 300 pages of the other one...

What do the comparators give you?
flts
^- The envelope generators require at least +10V gate + trig to trigger them which is not unusually high but something that all devices don't provide.

So if you want to trigger the EGs with lower voltage gates/triggers from external sources, you can add a comparator with a suitably low treshold along the way to "convert" the voltage level to something that will trigger the EGs properly.

I don't see any downsides to doing this mod, of course it's a bit of extra work. As an alternative, you could just have one or more adjustable comparators on a separate panel and route any lower voltage gates through them.
elmegil
Gotcha! Thanks....
ultravox
I was also wondering about the comparators. Thanks for sharing! thumbs up
roglok
flts wrote:
^- The envelope generators require at least +10V gate + trig to trigger them which is not unusually high but something that all devices don't provide.

So if you want to trigger the EGs with lower voltage gates/triggers from external sources, you can add a comparator with a suitably low treshold along the way to "convert" the voltage level to something that will trigger the EGs properly.

I don't see any downsides to doing this mod, of course it's a bit of extra work. As an alternative, you could just have one or more adjustable comparators on a separate panel and route any lower voltage gates through them.


I respect zthee's decision of leaving the threshold at 10V (for reasons of authenticity, I presume) but since bumping lower trigger/gate levels up a notch will in no way interfere with the synth's functionality, I see no reason for not doing it. compared to the assembly of the TTSH adding a few comparators between the jacks and trigger inputs seems like a trivial task... it can be easily done on a small piece of strip-/perfboard...
sduck
Protip: when building the 4027 boards, solder the smt caps first, before anything else. Unless you're a smt ninja with specialized toolz and/or skillz. Heck, even then do them first.
bugfight
does this really call for a comparator? won't a mosfet do the job?
diablojoy
can anyone confirm both LED drivers BD236/ BD237 solder in writing up ?
indicators on mine are non existent so do not match any data sheet i can find
flts
roglok wrote:
I respect zthee's decision of leaving the threshold at 10V (for reasons of authenticity, I presume) but since bumping lower trigger/gate levels up a notch will in no way interfere with the synth's functionality, I see no reason for not doing it. compared to the assembly of the TTSH adding a few comparators between the jacks and trigger inputs seems like a trivial task... it can be easily done on a small piece of strip-/perfboard...


True that. It will most probably mean somehow cutting traces on the main PCB, though? All the 3,5mm jacks are board mounted and the whole thing is mounted on the jack / slider height (12mm?) from the front panel, so there's really no space to cram an alternate panel mounted jack and a piece of perfboard between the panel and the PCB. Or am I just looking at it the wrong way?
Heavy Metal Kid
There's room for a 6.8k resistor in the VCO-1 section of the PCB. This is not listed in the building manual. It still goes in, yeah?

Also, the 30pF capacitors in the BOM/manual are listed as 33pF in the Mouser cart. I suppose this difference is negligible in this context?
roglok
flts wrote:
roglok wrote:
I respect zthee's decision of leaving the threshold at 10V (for reasons of authenticity, I presume) but since bumping lower trigger/gate levels up a notch will in no way interfere with the synth's functionality, I see no reason for not doing it. compared to the assembly of the TTSH adding a few comparators between the jacks and trigger inputs seems like a trivial task... it can be easily done on a small piece of strip-/perfboard...


True that. It will most probably mean somehow cutting traces on the main PCB, though? All the 3,5mm jacks are board mounted and the whole thing is mounted on the jack / slider height (12mm?) from the front panel, so there's really no space to cram an alternate panel mounted jack and a piece of perfboard between the panel and the PCB. Or am I just looking at it the wrong way?


hmm. you may have a point there. especially with all the normalization going on. I haven't studied the schematics regarding this mod and I don't have my kit yet, but yeah, it would probably either mean cutting traces or moving some components (diodes/resistors) to the new board...
Monobass
I'm thinking drilling an alternate gate input into the panel, with comparator on that and then summed with the onboard one.
roglok
Monobass wrote:
I'm thinking drilling an alternate gate input into the panel, with comparator on that and then summed with the onboard one.


hmm not too fond of that idea. while there's some space below the envelope gate/trig inputs, s&h and electronic switch also need 10v triggers, don't they?
Monobass
In the panel or in the case, not sure yet smile
tojpeters
Is there a guide to trimming this anywhere?
reggiechacha
The output signal on the ring modulator on my build doesn't look right on my scope compared with the picture on the build doc. Does anyone know if the matched pairs need to be touching or coupled?

Edit:added thermal paste. Made no difference.
ultravox
reggiechacha wrote:
The output signal on the ring modulator on my build doesn't look right on my scope compared with the picture on the build doc. Does anyone know if the matched pairs need to be touching or coupled?


My ring mod doesn't look right either and my matched pairs are touching. Also my 4012 VCF doesn't seem to be working: no output and it's jumpered per the build docs for testing.

I'll post my o'scope pictures tonight for VCO 1, 2 & 3 and the Ring Mod.

The good thing is all three of my 4027 Osc boards test A-OK. For some reason the rise time on OSC 1's Sawtooth is not linear, but at least I know it's not the 4027 board that doing it.

Cheers!
sduck
Ok, a while back I promised I would post my McMaster-Carr part numbers for the hardware bits when/if I got around to it. I finally got around to it.

95836A205 - the M3 6mm black screws
95836A215 - the M3 16mm black screws - they don't have 15mm, hope these'll work
92000A128 - the M3 20mm screws - these don't come in black (rustoleum if it's important)
95947A121 - the M3 12mm standoffs
90591A121 - box o' M3 nuts

They don't have anything that's explicitly a 2.9mm self threading screw - any ideas?
ultravox
reggiechacha wrote:
The output signal on the ring modulator on my build doesn't look right on my scope compared with the picture on the build doc. Does anyone know if the matched pairs need to be touching or coupled?

Edit:added thermal paste. Made no difference.


I forgot to take a screen capture of my ring modulator but it looks a lot like your pictures. So either we're both right or we're both wrong. hihi

Heres what my oscillators are putting out, just fyi:

OSC 1:



OSC 2:





OSC 3:

elmegil
sduck wrote:
Ok, a while back I promised I would post my McMaster-Carr part numbers for the hardware bits when/if I got around to it. I finally got around to it.

95836A205 - the M3 6mm black screws
95836A215 - the M3 16mm black screws - they don't have 15mm, hope these'll work
92000A128 - the M3 20mm screws - these don't come in black (rustoleum if it's important)
95947A121 - the M3 12mm standoffs
90591A121 - box o' M3 nuts

They don't have anything that's explicitly a 2.9mm self threading screw - any ideas?


Many Thanks SDuck!
tojpeters
Are these scope shots after trimming?
The ring mod would need trimmed to work.
Heavy Metal Kid
tojpeters wrote:
Is there a guide to trimming this anywhere?


Someone here posted a PDF version of the build manual. At the end, the original 2600 manual was included. At least the section that regards trimming, if my memory serves me.
reggiechacha
tojpeters wrote:
Are these scope shots after trimming?
The ring mod would need trimmed to work.


I messed around with the trimmers. Apart from the signal gain, the variation was minimal and didn't come anywhere close to the pic in the build doc.

I had a look around on line at other ring mod output signals and came across this http://www.ecalpemos.nl/2011/02/05/cgs-wave-multipliers-module-complet ed/ which looks closer to mine.
I'm keen to see what other builders signals look like. I guess I'll press on with the rest of the build in the mean time.
Jarno
For anyone looking for more information on the two dual fets:
http://www.analog.com/library/analogdialogue/cd/vol4n2.pdf

Might be interesting, contains specs (also on U235), love the remark that these duals are cheaper than two singles in plastic packages, not anymore they aren't!
Now and Zen
Jarno wrote:
For anyone looking for more information on the two dual fets:
http://www.analog.com/library/analogdialogue/cd/vol4n2.pdf

Might be interesting, contains specs (also on U235), love the remark that these duals are cheaper than two singles in plastic packages, not anymore they aren't!


What a brilliant newsletter for all nostalgia freaks. I just had to read the rest of the document too, how about a single 12bit DAC for $250 in 1970, that's over $2,000 in today's money. Yikes! Dead Banana
jbdiver
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:

Also, the 30pF capacitors in the BOM/manual are listed as 33pF in the Mouser cart. I suppose this difference is negligible in this context?


I was stuffing the VCO-2 section tonight and have the same question. Should 33pF be used for the 30pF caps?
gddfp
jbdiver wrote:
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:

Also, the 30pF capacitors in the BOM/manual are listed as 33pF in the Mouser cart. I suppose this difference is negligible in this context?


I was stuffing the VCO-2 section tonight and have the same question. Should 33pF be used for the 30pF caps?

Yes, no problem. I reckon these are just stabilising caps, so their value isn't that critical.

_g
sduck
There's a post by zthee ...somewhere... about some of the values which don't really exist anymore, although he's still gone ahead and labeled them with the old values. I seem to recall that cap values were the big ones that are changed - you can't get 30pF caps easily anymore, but 33pF ones are readily available, and work just as well. There are some other ones like this on the board.
gddfp
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
tojpeters wrote:
Is there a guide to trimming this anywhere?


Someone here posted a PDF version of the build manual. At the end, the original 2600 manual was included. At least the section that regards trimming, if my memory serves me.

Yes, the original Service Manual's "Calibration & Alignment" section is included in my Pocket Guide, and it does indeed has a section on trimming the RingMod.

Here's the newest version (1.1) of the TTSH Building Pocket Guide:

http://www.guyd2.com/ttsh-buildpocket.pdf

It now includes the Polarisation Error Warning, the Finishing Up section, and the Wiring Diagram.

_g
flts
sduck wrote:
I seem to recall that cap values were the big ones that are changed - you can't get 30pF caps easily anymore, but 33pF ones are readily available, and work just as well. There are some other ones like this on the board.


I guess the gist of the matter is that the tolerances of those caps were much worse back then and still aren't very accurate so...

Let's say you now have a 33pF cap with +-10% tolerance so your cap could be anything from 30pF to 36pF in reality. Maybe the original 2600 used a similar part with +-20% tolerance (just a guess, might have been different). You're on the same ballpark of values in any case and the original builders didn't match them either, their part could have been anything between 24 and 36pF - so yours always falls in the same range anyway.
Heavy Metal Kid
gddfp wrote:
jbdiver wrote:
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:

Also, the 30pF capacitors in the BOM/manual are listed as 33pF in the Mouser cart. I suppose this difference is negligible in this context?


I was stuffing the VCO-2 section tonight and have the same question. Should 33pF be used for the 30pF caps?

Yes, no problem. I reckon these are just stabilising caps, so their value isn't that critical.


Same goes for the 50pF later on in the project, use the 47pF ones instead.
LED-man
finished mounting all parts yesterday,
have to solder the jacks today and start to make music.
i used the same partkit like widy.

checkout my documentation - building tips:
http://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+Building+documentation

xpander
LED-man wrote:
finished mounting all parts yesterday,
have to solder the jacks today and start to make music.
i used the same partkit like widy.

checkout my documentation - building tips:

what gauge wire did you end up using for the MTA connectors? i don't build those too often...
sduck
LED-man wrote:


checkout my documentation - building tips:
http://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+Building+documentation



Great page! Lots of useful tips and tricks. Thanks for making this!
flts
xpander wrote:
what gauge wire did you end up using for the MTA connectors? i don't build those too often...


I think MTA100 connectors are color coded for gauges they're meant for. White is for 24 AWG.

LED-man wrote:
finished mounting all parts yesterday,
have to solder the jacks today and start to make music.


Thanks for the nice documentation! Seeing the first ones being finished makes me really anxious to get building mine - it's great fun to spend a long weekend here at the countryside jamming, cooking and having a sauna with friends, but I'm really itching to get back to my electronics bench now...
LED-man
The Panel needs 5 addional jacks for multible, they are not listed in BOM.

The building guide from zthee shows a other pcb version.
I miss the wiring for both amps.
Kipling
LED-man wrote:
The Panel needs 5 addional jacks for multible, they are not listed in BOM.


Good job I bought 100 of them then as I needed a few for my keyboard project. thumbs up
sduck
Ahhh, aren't they cute?



In real life they're... tiny!

Sorry, couldn't resist taking a glamour shot of these.
dubnspace
Hoping for an update on the Thonk kit availability?
Anyone have alternate reliable sources for the rare parts?
LED-man
dubnspace wrote:
Hoping for an update on the Thonk kit availability?
Anyone have alternate reliable sources for the rare parts?


I have rare kits and survival kits too.. contact me for ordering

http://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+Rare+Partkit%2C+Survival+Kit
grizzle
I'm confused about the orientation of the power transistors (BD236 and BD237). Does the writing face up or down?
InfraXpert
I have build the three sub-boards for the VCOs plus the power supply and the rest of the components for the VCO-1. I have tested the sub-boards on the VCO-1 pins according to the build notes but none of the VCO sub-boards gives any sound on the output.

If anybody have a great idea on which component I should be focusing me error search for, I am all ears.

I am afraid I have got a bad batch of 3046 but I need to test it to be sure. Would somebody please supply me with some numbers from the pins of the 3046 on a working VCO, that would be a great help.

Thanks
LED-man
Short demo.. only test with speaker.
Not calibrated yet.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=flxEVBZtOyg



ultravox
Nice porn shot! applause

sduck wrote:
Ahhh, aren't they cute?



In real life they're... tiny!

Sorry, couldn't resist taking a glamour shot of these.
ultravox
LED-man wrote:
dubnspace wrote:
Hoping for an update on the Thonk kit availability?
Anyone have alternate reliable sources for the rare parts?


I have rare kits and survival kits too..

http://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+Rare+Partkit%2C+Survial+Kit


Just curious, can you test the 2N3958 with a DMM like a JFET?
netpusher
On the 2 SMD caps that are on each of the VCO sub boards, the inner pads are so close together that I am having trouble not having solder flow to the other pad. Any soldering suggestions from those who got those boards together successfully?
sduck
The 2 inner pads are connected anyway so it's not a problem. Don't worry about it. You just don't want the 2 outer pads connected by solder slop.
diablojoy
Quote:
I'm confused about the orientation of the power transistors (BD236 and BD237). Does the writing face up or down?

face up So you can see the writing when they are laying flat on the board had me going for a while too hmmm.....
For those using pink LED's multiply zthee's LED current limiting resistor
values by 10 or greater so instead of 470R sub minimum 4K7
possibly still a bit bright for some people.
meanwhile i have sound and reverb lol

still one more issue to solve internal clock is not working at all and i still have to calibrate .
grizzle
Thanks diablojoy! That's what I figured, but I'm so close I didn't want to screw anything up!!!

Sliders then I'm done! nanners
rockwoofstone
Anyone got any firm pointers for a UK wall-wart? I have a track record of buying ones with the wrong plug size!
reggiechacha
rockwoofstone wrote:
Anyone got any firm pointers for a UK wall-wart? I have a track record of buying ones with the wrong plug size!


I got one of these http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-20w-switched-mode-acdc-multi-voltage- power-supply-vn10l
rockwoofstone
reggiechacha wrote:
rockwoofstone wrote:
Anyone got any firm pointers for a UK wall-wart? I have a track record of buying ones with the wrong plug size!


I got one of these http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-20w-switched-mode-acdc-multi-voltage- power-supply-vn10l


Thanks - that's a good starter for 10. Does anyone have one which doesn't use switchable plugs? This one will be a good fallback, but I'd prefer one which is "right" out of the box to avoid unnecessary "bits" and failure points ;-)
tojpeters
BOM errors
The mouser order I received had 8 BC558, the build needs 9
There is one too many 47K and one too few 4K7.
So when you get to the amplifier section and need two 4K7 resistors (one for each amp) and you only have one 4K7 and one 47K don't panic and check all the previous sections looking for the place where you put the missing 4K7 in place of a 47K. Like I did.
LED-man
ultravox wrote:
LED-man wrote:
dubnspace wrote:
Hoping for an update on the Thonk kit availability?
Anyone have alternate reliable sources for the rare parts?


I have rare kits and survival kits too..

http://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+Rare+Partkit%2C+Survial+Kit


Just curious, can you test the 2N3958 with a DMM like a JFET?


I have a microcontroller based transistortester...
LED-man
Whats happen with this GND solderpoint ?
ultravox
LED-man wrote:
ultravox wrote:
LED-man wrote:
dubnspace wrote:
Hoping for an update on the Thonk kit availability?
Anyone have alternate reliable sources for the rare parts?


I have rare kits and survival kits too..

http://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+Rare+Partkit%2C+Survial+Kit


Just curious, can you test the 2N3958 with a DMM like a JFET?


I have a microcontroller based transistortester...


Ok. I figure I received two defective 2N3958's due to the VCF and Sample & Hold aren't working per Zthee's quick test. I also received the 2N3954 for VCO 2 from the same seller and that seems to work just fine. I was hoping to test the 2N3958 with the diode function on my Fluke but it's probably better just to buy some new ones.

Cheers
dubnspace
I'm going to order the jacks from Erthenvar. Are these the correct ones?
http://erthenvar.com/store/jack35mmv?filter_name=3.5mm%20nuts
Also, ill order the hex nuts for these, do these need washers too?

Anyone in U.S. have a recommendation for the wall wart, anyone find something on Amazon?
qp
dubnspace wrote:
I'm going to order the jacks from Erthenvar. Are these the correct ones?
http://erthenvar.com/store/jack35mmv?filter_name=3.5mm%20nuts
Also, ill order the hex nuts for these, do these need washers too?

Anyone in U.S. have a recommendation for the wall wart, anyone find something on Amazon?


Those look like the correct jacks to me.

I ordered this power supply from Digikey. Works good so far, but all I have done is the PSU.
ultravox
tojpeters wrote:
BOM errors
The mouser order I received had 8 BC558, the build needs 9
There is one too many 47K and one too few 4K7.
So when you get to the amplifier section and need two 4K7 resistors (one for each amp) and you only have one 4K7 and one 47K don't panic and check all the previous sections looking for the place where you put the missing 4K7 in place of a 47K. Like I did.


Same here, had to order (1) BC558, (1) 4k7 and (2) 100k resistors. Also needed (2) 100n non-polar caps for the amplifiers. These weren't in the Mouser cart but were on the BOM: 810-FK26C0G1H104J.

Somehow I ended up with an extra 1M audio pot. I didn't take a count before I started plugging them in so maybe Mouser shipped one too many?

Cheers
limpmeat
I ordered all my parts off the BOM not the Mouser Project. Fingers crossed it's all good.
sduck
InfraXpert wrote:
I have build the three sub-boards for the VCOs plus the power supply and the rest of the components for the VCO-1. I have tested the sub-boards on the VCO-1 pins according to the build notes but none of the VCO sub-boards gives any sound on the output.

If anybody have a great idea on which component I should be focusing me error search for, I am all ears.

I am afraid I have got a bad batch of 3046 but I need to test it to be sure. Would somebody please supply me with some numbers from the pins of the 3046 on a working VCO, that would be a great help.


I just got my vco-1 working. All 3 sub-boards test out fine with scope and audio. Make sure you've got proper working power running to the VCO-1 section (and to the sub-boards), that the temporary jumper in the PSU section is there, that the jumper on the Keyboard cv header is on, and that 15v is being applied to the resistor in the picture.

The voltages I'm getting on the CA3046 are:
1 - 15
2 - 7
3 - 9.75
4 - 10.5
5 - 15
6 - -0.06
7 - -0.7
8 - 5.6
9 - -0.7
10 - 5.6
11 - 10.5
12 - -0.04
13 - -0.7
14 - 15

I hope I read these right and got them in the right order. Some of these are obviously AC voltages, but I read them all with my fluke in DC mode, so some might show up differently depending on your DMM.
sduck
So - a question. What's the deal with the 470r resistor on the back of VCO-2? It's not mentioned in the docs. There are a few others like this on the back.
diablojoy
Quote:
So - a question. What's the deal with the 470r resistor on the back of VCO-2? It's not mentioned in the docs. There are a few others like this on the back.

hmm you mean the front of the main board ?
if it's in between all the jacks and slider positions then it is for LED current limiting.
pick your preferred value in that case depending on the LED's you use
diablojoy
couple of pics




flts
^- Wow, it's a beaut!

Your image tags seem to be somehow messed up... Maybe try adding line breaks between them?
Kipling
ultravox wrote:


Ok. I figure I received two defective 2N3958's due to the VCF and Sample & Hold aren't working per Zthee's quick test. I also received the 2N3954 for VCO 2 from the same seller and that seems to work just fine. I was hoping to test the 2N3958 with the diode function on my Fluke but it's probably better just to buy some new ones.

Cheers


I use a Peak DCA75 semiconductor tester - highly recommended. I used it to match my 2N3904's & 6's.

I got my rare parts from Little Diode so trust they are all OK. I've yet to receive my TTSH so haven't used anything, so I'll test them all now you've mentioned it, especially as I bought a couple of ultra-rare (and ultra-expensive) IMF3958's for my 3620 keyboard project from them too.
diablojoy
Quote:
Your image tags seem to be somehow messed up... Maybe try adding line breaks between them?

yeah that looks better
thanks
ultravox
Kipling wrote:
ultravox wrote:


Ok. I figure I received two defective 2N3958's due to the VCF and Sample & Hold aren't working per Zthee's quick test. I also received the 2N3954 for VCO 2 from the same seller and that seems to work just fine. I was hoping to test the 2N3958 with the diode function on my Fluke but it's probably better just to buy some new ones.

Cheers


I use a Peak DCA75 semiconductor tester - highly recommended. I used it to match my 2N3904's & 6's.

I got my rare parts from Little Diode so trust they are all OK. I've yet to receive my TTSH so haven't used anything, so I'll test them all now you've mentioned it, especially as I bought a couple of ultra-rare (and ultra-expensive) IMF3958's for my 3620 keyboard project from them too.


Thanks mate. Before the build I was looking to get the DCA55 for matching but built Ian Fritz's circuit instead. The DCA75 is more capable and would have been a big help now. I have new 2N3958s on order so hopefully that'll take care of problem.
ultravox
Looks like Zthee made a change to the PSU build document. He's deleted the 10 ohm resistor and 100p cap and installed a jumper.
hv0190
ultravox wrote:
Looks like Zthee made a change to the PSU build document. He's deleted the 10 ohm resistor and 100p cap and installed a jumper.


Would be interesting to hear why he'd put them in in the first place and what made him take them out again ... but I guess a 10 ohm resistor and a 100pf cap don't do much anyway ... hmmm.....
I've completed the VCOs, the VCF and the PSU and everything is running as it's supposed to ... no probs with the PSU despite having soldered in the respective resistor and cap!
LED-man
ultravox wrote:
Looks like Zthee made a change to the PSU build document. He's deleted the 10 ohm resistor and 100p cap and installed a jumper.


because i have massiv hum in the speakers wink
sduck
diablojoy wrote:
Quote:
So - a question. What's the deal with the 470r resistor on the back of VCO-2? It's not mentioned in the docs. There are a few others like this on the back.

hmm you mean the front of the main board ?
if it's in between all the jacks and slider positions then it is for LED current limiting.
pick your preferred value in that case depending on the LED's you use


Actually, there are 2 resistors in that section on the back - or the front - whatever, the side that doesn't have all the other resistors. And in quite a few other places on the back/front. And now that I've followed the traces, I can see that they're all LED current limiting resistors, which is nice - you can have different colors for different sections and be able to balance them. Great!
tojpeters
I was also short two 100K resistors and one 100n cap.
Heavy Metal Kid
The four self threading screws, where do they go? Through the four holes in the back of the case, into a wooden plank that holds the reverb tank?
flts
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
The four self threading screws, where do they go? Through the four holes in the back of the case, into a wooden plank that holds the reverb tank?


I wonder if you simply use those to attach the panel to the official TTSH metal case? This is just a wild guess, but I see a hole in each corner of the panel. Because I didn't order the case myself, I have zero idea whether the case has some kind of threads / captive nuts for attaching the panel with normal machine screws or if you have to use self threading screws for that.
LED-man
by the way:

my powersupply shows a load of 0,7Ampere on 12Volt
(with working internal speakers)

a 1Ampere/12Volt psu can use from my PoV
craigwilliamsmusic
I'm waiting until some more bugs are ironed out and people post there tips for the build.
mandzaro
LED-man wrote:
by the way:

my powersupply shows a load of 0,7Ampere on 12Volt
(with working internal speakers)

a 1Ampere/12Volt psu can use from my PoV


0,7 Ampere on both + and – rails together ?
LED-man
mandzaro wrote:
LED-man wrote:
by the way:

my powersupply shows a load of 0,7Ampere on 12Volt
(with working internal speakers)

a 1Ampere/12Volt psu can use from my PoV


0,7 Ampere on both + and – rails together ?


measurement is from the external PSU 12Volt DC.
i use a internal DC-DC regulator, so yes its for both rails.
LED-man
diablojoy wrote:
couple of pics



Congratulation
very nice build.
do you have any information's about issues or building tips for us ?
works all as designed ?
flts
LED-man wrote:
mandzaro wrote:
LED-man wrote:
by the way:
my powersupply shows a load of 0,7Ampere on 12Volt
(with working internal speakers)
a 1Ampere/12Volt psu can use from my PoV

0,7 Ampere on both + and – rails together ?

measurement is from the external PSU 12Volt DC.
i use a internal DC-DC regulator, so yes its for both rails.


That's a relief, I was wondering if you meant 0.7A for only the internal positive rail. I suppose the 0.8A per rail +-15V linear supply I have reserved for the project is going to be enough then.

Matching the last few transistors today after work, I suppose it's time to get building after that unless I manage to catch the flu just in time.
ultravox
flts wrote:
Matching the last few transistors today after work...


I was on a matching frenzy when pairing up my 3904's and 3906's. I matched twice what was needed just in case I ran into problems. hihi

As far a build tips:

I set the temp of my soldering iron to 750°F (400°C) and used my smallest chisel tip (1.2mm). I set the hot air side of my station to 400°C. I used the .4 slot on my lead forming tool for sizing the resistors. The diode hole spacing on the big board is narrower than the resistor spacing so I improvised for them.

I didn't find anything in particular that was difficult during the build. It was mostly plug-and-play and repetition; i.e. solder, flip the board, cut the leads, solder, flip the board...

Here's some pics of my build (including my big toe). I'm waiting on new 2n3958's and 4.7k & 100k resistors to arrive before finishing up. I'm building my own box but I won't start that until April when I come back from my business trip.












LED-man
ultravox wrote:
flts wrote:
Matching the last few transistors today after work...


I was on a matching frenzy when pairing up my 3904's and 3906's. I matched twice what was needed just in case I ran into problems. hihi

As far a build tips:

I set the temp of my soldering iron to 750°F (400°C) and used my smallest chisel tip (1.2mm). I set the hot air side of my station to 400°C. I used the .4 slot on my lead forming tool for sizing the resistors. The diode hole spacing on the big board is narrower than the resistor spacing so I improvised for them.

I didn't find anything in particular that was difficult during the build. It was mostly plug-and-play and repetition; i.e. solder, flip the board, cut the leads, solder, flip the board...

Here's some pics of my build (including my big toe). I'm waiting on new 2n3958's and 4.7k & 100k resistors to arrive before finishing up. I'm building my own box but I won't start that until April when I come back from my business trip.



looks very good,
have you washed the PCB ?
fuzzbass
I have not seen my panel yet. But looking at my Peerless loudspeakers, its apparent that mounting them flush to the panel will press against and immobilize the surrounds. Is this dealt with in the panel design, or do I need to locate/fabricate some mounting rings? Thanks,
-Tony
ultravox
LED-man wrote:
have you washed the PCB ?


It needs it!! lol
sduck
fuzzbass wrote:
looking at my Peerless loudspeakers, its apparent that mounting them flush to the panel will press against and immobilize the surrounds. Is this dealt with in the panel design, or do I need to locate/fabricate some mounting rings?


No, this is a problem. I hadn't even looked at my speakers until now - and it's obvious that some kind of mounting rings will need to be fabricated. I wonder what those people who have finished their builds have done?
ultravox
I just took a look at my speakers and you guys are right, they'll need an adapter gasket to keep the cone's suspension foam away from the panel. Most gaskets I've seen are made out of thick paper, cork or felt.

Here's some from Amazon that might be good: http://www.amazon.com/Speaker-Gasketing-Tape-ft-Roll/dp/B0002ZPLPM
LED-man
sduck wrote:
fuzzbass wrote:
looking at my Peerless loudspeakers, its apparent that mounting them flush to the panel will press against and immobilize the surrounds. Is this dealt with in the panel design, or do I need to locate/fabricate some mounting rings?


No, this is a problem. I hadn't even looked at my speakers until now - and it's obvious that some kind of mounting rings will need to be fabricated. I wonder what those people who have finished their builds have done?


Visaton speakers works perfect, holes matched with panel.
tojpeters
I haven't built/test fitted this yet but a couple of these out of 3/8" plywood and a little black paint should do it.

Altitude909
Sounds like it's time to get some MDF laser cut at Ponoko. I'll get a bunch made if anyone is interested. They have a 1/4" thick material which should be fine which is $11 for a 31"x15" sheet so I could fit a ton of those on that. Then again, I dont see why you couldnt use a 1/4 standoff instead
limpmeat
Can I sub mono ceramic caps for the poly box type 680p caps in the VCOs?

The BOM didn't specify :(
fuzzbass
Altitude909 wrote:
Sounds like it's time to get some MDF laser cut at Ponoko. I'll get a bunch made if anyone is interested. They have a 1/4" thick material which should be fine which is $11 for a 31"x15" sheet so I could fit a ton of those on that. Then again, I dont see why you couldnt use a 1/4 standoff instead


I guess now that I stirred up this discussion, we should consider whether a gasket is better than standoffs. I have built some speakers before. The point of a gasket is to create isolation between the front and rear of the speaker cone, so that any interaction is controlled by enclosure design (i.e. sealed or ported - ports create a delay, which can create a bass resonance). In this case, even with a gasket, there are panel openings on both sides of the divide. Maybe a gasket won't perform any better than standoffs, if the difference in distance between the front and rear of the cone is about the same. In reality, a good speaker is a system where the driver and enclosure are well matched. The 2600/TTSH were never attempting to be that.
tojpeters
I was thinking adapter plate to cover the extra 'speaker grill' holes to keep dust out. I suppose with all the slots for the sliders that is rather pointless.
xpander
LED-man wrote:
Visaton speakers works perfect, holes matched with panel.

They match the Peerless, too- it's that the speakers need to be floated backward from the front panel to function properly.
sduck
LED-man wrote:
sduck wrote:
fuzzbass wrote:
looking at my Peerless loudspeakers, its apparent that mounting them flush to the panel will press against and immobilize the surrounds. Is this dealt with in the panel design, or do I need to locate/fabricate some mounting rings?


No, this is a problem. I hadn't even looked at my speakers until now - and it's obvious that some kind of mounting rings will need to be fabricated. I wonder what those people who have finished their builds have done?


Visaton speakers works perfect, holes matched with panel.


Quite a lot of us bought the peerless speakers as per zthees suggestion. Hence this discussion. The holes are fine with the peerless ones, they just don't have the needed clearance for the cones.

My idea for a mount/baffle would cover the extra holes around the edges of the speaker - my guess is that you'd get better sound that way. The Ponoko idea is cool, but all we really need is some 1/4" plywood or something like that, cut the right size, and 5 holes (one bigger one) in it. Some black paint so it doesn't look too goofy. Obviously this wouldn't be perfect, baffling-wise, but it'd probably be a lot better than leaving those extra holes uncovered. Although I'd take a bunch of the ponoko ones if that happens!

Tojpeters beat me to it, but I made a little visual aid for my ownself, just to make sure it'd work (and it does) - measurements aren't exact, and obviously my freehand circle drawing skills are for shit.

roglok
limpmeat wrote:
Can I sub mono ceramic caps for the poly box type 680p caps in the VCOs?

The BOM didn't specify :(


ceramic caps are not a good choice for VCOs unless they are C0G/NPO.
polystyrene or silver mica will work fine, too... the 680p are timing capacitors and should be temperature stable if you want your synth to stay in tune...
limpmeat
roglok wrote:
limpmeat wrote:
Can I sub mono ceramic caps for the poly box type 680p caps in the VCOs?

The BOM didn't specify :(


ceramic caps are not a good choice for VCOs unless they are C0G/NPO.
polystyrene or silver mica will work fine, too... the 680p are timing capacitors and should be temperature stable if you want your synth to stay in tune...


Excellent! I have some 680p polystyrene caps sitting around.
roglok
limpmeat wrote:
roglok wrote:
limpmeat wrote:
Can I sub mono ceramic caps for the poly box type 680p caps in the VCOs?

The BOM didn't specify :(


ceramic caps are not a good choice for VCOs unless they are C0G/NPO.
polystyrene or silver mica will work fine, too... the 680p are timing capacitors and should be temperature stable if you want your synth to stay in tune...


Excellent! I have some 680p polystyrene caps sitting around.

thumbs up
diablojoy
Quote:
No, this is a problem. I hadn't even looked at my speakers until now - and it's obvious that some kind of mounting rings will need to be fabricated. I wonder what those people who have finished their builds have done?


I just used some metal M3 x 10mm circuit board standoffs to mount the speakers temporarily , sure it's not the best but it will do until i can manufacture something better.
flts
diablojoy wrote:
Quote:
No, this is a problem. I hadn't even looked at my speakers until now - and it's obvious that some kind of mounting rings will need to be fabricated. I wonder what those people who have finished their builds have done?

I just used some metal M3 x 10mm circuit board standoffs to mount the speakers temporarily , sure it's not the best but it will do until i can manufacture something better.


That's what I intended to do as well - just use short standoffs.

The speakers aren't going to be in well designed enclosures in any case (unless one decides to make separate sealed boxes for them inside her custom case which MIGHT be workable...) so my guess is that their performance will be suboptimal / sound not very good - at least initially I don't feel like spending that much time nor energy for figuring out more clever mounting just to improve that a bit.

On the other hand, as a close relative of mine is a retired professional carpenter, I don't think it'd be a problem to get mounting rings cut to measure from something like plywood... I'd assume you'd hear at least some difference compared to metal standoffs, but this is completely based on a gut feeling. Maybe I'll just have to try it out once the build is done.
latigid on
Ponoko/Formulor also offer various wood and cardboard materials, could be an option.
Heavy Metal Kid
ultravox wrote:
I just took a look at my speakers and you guys are right, they'll need an adapter gasket to keep the cone's suspension foam away from the panel. Most gaskets I've seen are made out of thick paper, cork or felt.

Here's some from Amazon that might be good: http://www.amazon.com/Speaker-Gasketing-Tape-ft-Roll/dp/B0002ZPLPM


I'm a newb when it comes to installing speakers, but that one seems to be meant to seal the backside, though?

Monobass
flts wrote:
The speakers aren't going to be in well designed enclosures in any case (unless one decides to make separate sealed boxes for them inside her custom case which MIGHT be workable...) so my guess is that their performance will be suboptimal / sound not very good - at least initially I don't feel like spending that much time nor energy for figuring out more clever mounting just to improve that a bit.


I have wondered what the resonant frequency is of the metal case I bought from human comparator wink

I'm wondering if it's worth sticking a sheet of rubber to the back large internal face of the case or something, to both dampen the vibration in that large face, but maybe also dampen it acoustically inside a little bit too? maybe some diffusion inside the case might help too? can you tell I have absolutely no idea what happens inside loudspeaker cabinets thumbs up

I guess adding material volume, reducing air volume, reducing the thermal conductivity of the metal case etc will all make the thing run a lot hotter though.
nickster
I'm beginning to think that perhaps going with building a wooden case may have some benefit with regards the speakers. Coming from an equally non existent understanding of correct speaker cabinet design. Just a hunch.
Monobass
yeah I definitely went with the metal case for portability and size rather than acoustics. Having never owned an instrument with speakers in I'm kinda curious but not really sure if it's a good thing or not smile
latigid on
There's always these:

http://www.discretesynthesizers.com/arptronics/arp2600.htm



Quote:
24Db DUAL MODE FILTER - MODEL 2621- $1250.00 Installed



The one key element missing in a 2600 is a high-pass filter with resonance and associated coupling circuitry. The CMS 2620 is a dual mode, 24Db (Low-pass/High-pass), discrete, transistor ladder filter from the CMS 9000 series modules, Installed in the left speaker section. This original CMS design features an innovative circuit that extracts a high-pass response from a 24BD discrete ladder filter circuit producing a unique sound and beautiful resonance quite different from the existing low-pass filter in the 2600. In addition, the volume of the filter output does not drop off drastically as the resonance is increased as all other ladder filters do. This also makes the low-pass output quite useful as an alternative sounding 24db low-pass filter. Complete with anodized face plate, high quality controls, 1/8 inch Switchcraft normalized patching. Special link switch enables the coarse frequency control knob of the 2627 to control both filters for a truly remarkable sounding band-pass function (24Db x 24Db). The resonance on the high-pass function is also very unique and distinctive. Requires the power supply upgrade. Now comes with voltage controlled resonance.







VCO / 4 CHANNEL MIXER / INVERTER - MODEL 2627 - $1350.00 Installed



Installed in the right speaker section, this VCO utilizes the same exact circuitry used in the other VCO's in your 2600 to assure exact tracking and pitch stability characteristics. All four waveforms are available as well as pulse width modulation. Low frequency mode and normalized patching are also provided. The mixer section serves as a high quality audio mixer with the inputs either normalized to all 4 outs of VCO-4 or externally patched. The mixer can also be used as a voltage summer or inverter. This major upgrade uses high quality Switchcraft jacks, military spec potentiometers and ARP 2500 style knobs. Requires the CMS power supply upgrade.
ultravox
I think it's meant to be used on the mating surface; place on the rear-face for front-mounted speakers and vice versa? Otherwise it would be no use.

Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
ultravox wrote:
I just took a look at my speakers and you guys are right, they'll need an adapter gasket to keep the cone's suspension foam away from the panel. Most gaskets I've seen are made out of thick paper, cork or felt.

Here's some from Amazon that might be good: http://www.amazon.com/Speaker-Gasketing-Tape-ft-Roll/dp/B0002ZPLPM


I'm a newb when it comes to installing speakers, but that one seems to be meant to seal the backside, though?

Luap
ultravox wrote:
I think it's meant to be used on the mating surface; place on the rear-face for front-mounted speakers and vice versa? Otherwise it would be no use.



Indeed. And not thick enough either.

I'll be using slightly different peerless speakers, which have the rubber roll/suspension thing inverted. They will still require some spacing, but possibly less than the ones from the BOM would require.

ultravox
Luap wrote:
ultravox wrote:
I think it's meant to be used on the mating surface; place on the rear-face for front-mounted speakers and vice versa? Otherwise it would be no use.



Indeed. And not thick enough either.


You're right brother! I'll have to do more research.

Cheers!
elmegil
Luap wrote:
ultravox wrote:
I think it's meant to be used on the mating surface; place on the rear-face for front-mounted speakers and vice versa? Otherwise it would be no use.



Indeed. And not thick enough either.


Can you not layer it?
Luap
elmegil wrote:
Luap wrote:
ultravox wrote:
I think it's meant to be used on the mating surface; place on the rear-face for front-mounted speakers and vice versa? Otherwise it would be no use.



Indeed. And not thick enough either.


Can you not layer it?


You'd be better off with something hard like wood, instead of foam really.
Or just space it out with some nuts between the panel and speaker. Thats not ideal acoustically, but we're not building studio monitors here so I think that would be just fine.
fuzzbass
With any transducer, the frame should be mounted to something rigid, so that the voice coil motion is maximally transferred to the cone, and not the frame. I think the tape being discussed here is intended to damp leaks that occur between the baffle and gasket in some designs. This is a soft material used by car audio tweaks to shore up their low frequency drivers. Its not meant as a rigid mounting surface. Either a small baffle, or standoffs would be better in my opinion.
limpmeat
has anyone found the peerless speakers in Aus? or an equivalent?
flts
limpmeat wrote:
has anyone found the peerless speakers in Aus? or an equivalent?


I'm not from around there, but a quick google for peerless speakers australia produced this one:

http://www.wagneronline.com.au/ProductDetails.aspx?USERSEARCH=PEERLESS  /959674=PEERLESS_3%E2%80%9D_FULL_RANGE/27194=830986

Apparently that's the consumer store for the Peerless distributors in Australia (WES Components) listed on the Tymphany/Peerless site.
nyd
I asked Zthee to put a small stripboard patch-area on the board for mods like this but apparently that didn't come. Maybe rev2?

roglok wrote:
flts wrote:
^- The envelope generators require at least +10V gate + trig to trigger them which is not unusually high but something that all devices don't provide.

So if you want to trigger the EGs with lower voltage gates/triggers from external sources, you can add a comparator with a suitably low treshold along the way to "convert" the voltage level to something that will trigger the EGs properly.

I don't see any downsides to doing this mod, of course it's a bit of extra work. As an alternative, you could just have one or more adjustable comparators on a separate panel and route any lower voltage gates through them.


I respect zthee's decision of leaving the threshold at 10V (for reasons of authenticity, I presume) but since bumping lower trigger/gate levels up a notch will in no way interfere with the synth's functionality, I see no reason for not doing it. compared to the assembly of the TTSH adding a few comparators between the jacks and trigger inputs seems like a trivial task... it can be easily done on a small piece of strip-/perfboard...
mush
Well, you can always add a stripboard inside the case. The AUX-trig and gate inputs should work well for such a mod. I plan on doing it that way. Just need to finish up on the last parts and calibrate it first.
flts
^- Again, it's not a big job or an issue otherwise, I suppose you'll just have to somehow break the connection between the jack and the PCB and still fit the jack between the panel and the PCB. Unless you can break the traces on the PCB, keep the jack where it is and wire everything behind the PCB? Or are the gate + trig signals actually brought to jacks via flying wires?

... or am I still just thinking this in a too difficult way? I'm still pretty early in the build so I haven't test mounted the panel, I just kind of figured out from the pictures that since the jacks are attached to the PCB on one side and panel on the other, it's going to be pretty tight to wire anything between that.
sduck
Protip: when placing the sockets and headers for soldering, use masking tape or some other easily removable tape to hold them in place. This way you can place a whole lot of them at once, flip the board and not have to worry about them moving around. I wish I had taken a picture of the board when I was about ready to solder the vast bulk of them on - I have this lovely green Frog tape, which is great for this -

fuzzbass
sduck wrote:
Protip: when placing the sockets and headers for soldering, use masking tape or some other easily removable tape to hold them in place. This way you can place a whole lot of them at once, flip the board and not have to worry about them moving around. I wish I had taken a picture of the board when I was about ready to solder the vast bulk of them on - I have this lovely green Frog tape, which is great for this -



Amateurtip: just be careful to keep the sticky away from anything that is going to heat up. The adhesive will melt and run, contaminating conductors. This is particularly a bummer with sockets. It has happened here.
andybee
1. very very nice build! I LOVE IT!!!
2. I am nearly finished... hihi
3. can´t read all 46 pages here, anybody else still finished?

can´t wait to: Play Him Off, Keyboard Cat. try the beast out!!!

as far as I heard, most R2D2 sounds from star wars are made
with 2600 SlayerBadger!
flts
sduck wrote:
Protip: when placing the sockets and headers for soldering, use masking tape or some other easily removable tape to hold them in place. This way you can place a whole lot of them at once, flip the board and not have to worry about them moving around.


that's what i always do with ic sockets - use what we here call "painter's tape" (i guess it's masking tape in proper english) to tape them to place, solder one pin in both corners of all the sockets, remove the tape and then solder them completely.

i know people often recommend not doing it like that but i haven't had any melting tape / adhesive remnants so i continue doing so until something actually happens. i guess it helps that i never manage to heat the sockets super hot - just attach two pins and then take the tape off.
sduck
Yea, if you've got decent heat and good soldering technique it's not going to be a problem.
ultravox
I recognize that section of the board - Sample & Hold! hihi

sduck wrote:

Heavy Metal Kid
Just a heads up to those who ordered the Mouser list early on - the two 100uF electrolytic capacitors for the speaker amps might not be in there. I think they were added at some point later on, though.

I just found out, as I'm just about to finish the whole thing. cry
Kipling
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
Just a heads up to those who ordered the Mouser list early on - the two 100uF electrolytic capacitors for the speaker amps might not be in there. I think they were added at some point later on, though.

I just found out, as I'm just about to finish the whole thing. cry


Mine were not there - ordered on 4th December. Thanks for pointing that out. At least I've got some time to find some as mine hasn't shipped yet.
ultravox
Good news: my replacement 2N3958's arrived today. I installed them and now the VCF and Sample & Hold are working perfectly! thumbs up

Now I can final install the front panel since everything is verified working. I'm also waiting for MIDImplant to arrive so I can calibrate the TTSH and run it thru it's paces. After that I'll build the case.

I'm going to try an internal power supply so I ordered the TDK-Lambda HWS15-12/A. I chose it because its convection cooled, has a small footprint and should feed the DC/DC converter. Plus it looks like it's good for audio based on the 'Key Market Segments & Applications' on the data sheet. I was going to use an external power supply but since I'm building my own case I figured I may as well go the extra mile.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=HWS15-12/Avirtualkey 57750000virtualkey967-HWS1512/A

But all this will have to wait till I come back home in three weeks (business trip). d'oh!

Edit: corrected link.
sduck
Just finished the VCF section. It passes signal as per the test in the build docs, but I'm also getting a pretty bad hum when it's powered up from the test connection pad - is this normal for when the faders aren't connected yet? Or did I do something wrong?

Edit: I'm suspecting the 2N3958 after checking out a lot of stuff - it's the only suspect part.

further edit: problem found - just a grounding problem with the test connections. Note to self - testing these things at 1 AM requires retesting in the morning.
diablojoy
there are 4 off board jack positions in the panel for a multiple and one for kybrd CV .
if i need to i may just hijack those 4 for gate and trigger level converting points , if i dont i will probably make a buffered multi on a small board for the kybrd CV in jack instead
haven't quite fully decided yet.
flts
ultravox wrote:
Now I can final install the front panel since everything is verified working. I'm also waiting for MIDImplant to arrive so I can calibrate the TTSH and run it thru it's paces. After that I'll build the case.


Kind of same idea here - my MIDImplants should be arriving before I have the time to finish the actual build (any day now), so I can first build the TTSH to working state, then hook up the MIDImplant and start going through cal.
flts
diablojoy wrote:
there are 4 off board jack positions in the panel for a multiple and one for kybrd CV .
if i need to i may just hijack those 4 for gate and trigger level converting points , if i dont i will probably make a buffered multi on a small board for the kybrd CV in jack instead
haven't quite fully decided yet.


Ah yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I probably have to add an additional little panel to my case for MIDI I/O etc. so it might be a good place to add other utility things.
Cablebasher
Hello,

A quick question about the SMD components.

Are people buying special tools for this, like a hot air iron etc, or are people risking a normal iron, flux pen, tweezers method?

Never done SMD before.

Slightly scared.
sduck
I just used my regular soldering iron and a small screwdriver to hold the things in place. That's not what the cool kids do, but I'm not cool or a kid. Just put a dab of solder on the 2 middle pads (they're connected, don't worry about solder slop), solder the inside parts of each cap first, then do the ends. And my advice posted earlier is to do all this before you do anything else on these tiny boards - it's easier without extras stuff in the way.
flts
Cablebasher wrote:
Are people buying special tools for this, like a hot air iron etc, or are people risking a normal iron, flux pen, tweezers method?


I just use a normal fine-tipped iron, solder wire and fine tweezers, no hot air or flux pen.

And basically this technique Old Crow demonstrates: http://www.cs80.com/crowbx/SMTSolder.mp4 ... My former roommate demonstrated me the same technique years ago and told me it's surprisingly easy. After trying and using it every now and then I agree. If you can solder small through hole components to tight'ish spots, you can do that as well.

I suppose hot air SMD soldering would be an easier solution, but for such a small amount of SMD work I haven't bothered getting a tool for that so far.

sduck wrote:
And my advice posted earlier is to do all this before you do anything else on these tiny boards - it's easier without extras stuff in the way.


I agree here, if I started over now I'd solder the SMD caps to the VCO subboards first. Now I did the soldering in build doc order and while it was fine, I did wish the other stuff wouldn't have been in the way when soldering those tiny caps.
treseja
Have you all ordered the DC-DC converter module? I was thinking about using a simple +-15V linear PSU. I don't see any benefit using the module, or did I miss something?
Kipling
treseja wrote:
Have you all ordered the DC-DC converter module? I was thinking about using a simple +-15V linear PSU. I don't see any benefit using the module, or did I miss something?

Not got my TTSH yet, but what I can see from the build docs is that the amplifiers take their power (2-rail not 3 as in the rest of the circuit) before the DC-DC converter. Not sure if that will make any difference to anything though.
Jarno
treseja wrote:
Have you all ordered the DC-DC converter module? I was thinking about using a simple +-15V linear PSU. I don't see any benefit using the module, or did I miss something?


I received the PCB today, and am thinking of doing the same thing. I'll probably use an external AC supply, rectify it in the case, feed +12 to the amps and bipolar to the rest.
A mains supply in the box is also an option, case is probably big enough. And I already have a midi implant.
treseja
Ok, I see, one more supply for the amps. Thanks, I have to be more precise.
mush


My TTSH is just waiting for me to calibrate it. Otherwise she's done. Used the kit from Thonk - worked perfectly! Thanks Steven!
sduck
Wow! Looks fabulous!

I too missed the bit on the pcb about the speaker amps needing their own line pre-DC>DC converter. And the board says 12v. And here I am with a 15v AC>DC box. Does anyone know if there's any reason why the speaker amps won't work with 15V? The TDA2030 are rated for up to 36v, and are actually supposedly optimized for use at 14v, so I think it'll be fine, but wonder if zthee or anyone else ever mentioned anything about that. Heck, they might work better!
mush
I run my speakers on 24v. It works fine.
Jarno
mush wrote:


AWESOME! thumbs up
Monobass
mush wrote:
My TTSH is just waiting for me to calibrate it. Otherwise she's done. Used the kit from Thonk - worked perfectly! Thanks Steven!


woop applause It's peanut butter jelly time!

the anticipation of this project was good enough, now come the noises smile
diablojoy
Quote:
I too missed the bit on the pcb about the speaker amps needing their own line pre-DC>DC converter. And the board says 12v. And here I am with a 15v AC>DC box. Does anyone know if there's any reason why the speaker amps won't work with 15V? The TDA2030 are rated for up to 36v, and are actually supposedly optimized for use at 14v, so I think it'll be fine, but wonder if zthee or anyone else ever mentioned anything about that. Heck, they might work better!


I am also running mine from +24v, working fine
xpmtl
Confused here. Where does your +24V coming from?

24V AC power pack before the DC/DC converter?
diablojoy
I am running a DC 24v 5 amp switch mode supply into the board
the onboard dc-dc convertor sorts it to +/-15v but the supply to the amps is tapped off the incoming 24v before that happens.
xpmtl
Ah right. Thanks for clearing that up.
flts
When using +-15V linear supply, I suppose one would simply skip all the parts before and including the DC-DC converter, connect the supply lines directly to where the +/-/GND outputs of the converter would usually be, and then wire the speaker amps separately from one of the power rails (possibly one from the positive rail and one from negative one if you want to split the load). Right?

It appears that TDA2030 is indeed not very picky about its supply voltage, anything between 12-36V should be fine.

Just starting to build the power distribution today and realized that all the 3 pin MTA100 cable connectors I have are angled and thus won't fit when all modules are ready and connected very frustrating I wish there was a cheap and fast local'ish source for 3 pin vertical keyed MTA100 connectors, but I may just have to gather together enough stuff for a Mouser / Digikey order because of this...

Ps. Now that we have so many people who've completed the build, please share some noises of yours!
Kipling
flts wrote:
When using +-15V linear supply, I suppose one would simply skip all the parts before and including the DC-DC converter, connect the supply lines directly to where the +/-/GND outputs of the converter would usually be, and then wire the speaker amps separately from one of the power rails (possibly one from the positive rail and one from negative one if you want to split the load). Right?

It appears that TDA2030 is indeed not very picky about its supply voltage, anything between 12-36V should be fine.

Just starting to build the power distribution today and realized that all the 3 pin MTA100 cable connectors I have are angled and thus won't fit when all modules are ready and connected very frustrating I wish there was a cheap and fast local'ish source for 3 pin vertical keyed MTA100 connectors, but I may just have to gather together enough stuff for a Mouser / Digikey order because of this...

Ps. Now that we have so many people who've completed the build, please share some noises of yours!


You'll probably need to think about grounding issues if you fed the amp sections from the +15 and -15V rails, not to mention being towards the top end of the voltage range so the gain may need some form of compensation. I think the series resistor/capacitor that zthee has since deleted was to do with de-coupling the grounds from the pre and post-DC/DC converter ground rails (correct me if I'm mistaken).

I shall be using the TDK Lambda 1A DC/DC converter option and an external 19V laptop power supply.

For MTA connectors in your area try Elfa. They've shipped to me in the UK without problem. nanners
flts
Kipling wrote:
You'll probably need to think about grounding issues if you fed the amp sections from the +15 and -15V rails, not to mention being towards the top end of the voltage range so the gain may need some form of compensation. I think the series resistor/capacitor that zthee has since deleted was to do with de-coupling the grounds from the pre and post-DC/DC converter ground rails (correct me if I'm mistaken).


To clarify, I meant using the +15V and GND lines normally to feed the amps - in that way I suppose there wouldn't be issues with differing ground rails since both all the modules and the amps reference to the same GND coming from the linear PSU. I was wondering if you could actually split the load so one of the amps was using the +15V line and the other -15V but well...

Quote:
For MTA connectors in your area try Elfa. They've shipped to me in the UK without problem. nanners


Thanks! I'm not sure if I'm actually being stupid here and the connectors may actually fit just fine but we'll see. Elfa does (or at least used to) have a local store on the other side of the city and you could order stuff there if they didn't have it in stock... They're usually kind of expensive compared to alternatives but in this case it might not hurt too much.
Kipling
flts wrote:
I was wondering if you could actually split the load so one of the amps was using the +15V line and the other -15V but well...


Unfortunately not I'm afraid.
flts
Kipling wrote:
flts wrote:
I was wondering if you could actually split the load so one of the amps was using the +15V line and the other -15V but well...

Unfortunately not I'm afraid.


Yeah, that's what I supposed... I was trying to think whether there would be a clever trick to do that but I guess the real answer is "just use a power supply that's beefy enough" lol
treseja
Maybe it's better to use that DC-DC converter, if you are not sure about voltages and groundings. I hope my question did not made any harm already. It is better to spend some than fry it completely, because it can happen. oops
flts
treseja wrote:
Maybe it's better to use that DC-DC converter, if you not sure about voltages and groundings. I hope my question did not made any harm already. It is better to spend some than fry it completely, because it can happen. oops


Yeah, and you have to be careful with mains voltages as well, plus handle safety grounding properly. If you aren't confident with that side of things it's better to use an external supply in any case.

I may just be a bit anal about this but the recommended DC-DC converters seemed to have a ripple spec of something around 100-150mV whereas a decent linear PSUs (such as the PowerOne I have in store for this one) have a ripple of max a few mV under normal conditions it seems. I have no idea how that difference would affect the TTSH but I thought it'd be nice to be on the safe side - especially since my own wooden case will have ample room for a PSU.

Plus I don't really like wall warts lol
fuzzbass
Cablebasher wrote:
Hello,

A quick question about the SMD components.

Are people buying special tools for this, like a hot air iron etc, or are people risking a normal iron, flux pen, tweezers method?

Never done SMD before.

Slightly scared.


My hands are a bit too shaky to hold the SMDs in place, I use a pair of hemostats fitted with some of my son's orthodontic rubber bands. You can't use the hemostat stops because you will crush your SMD. I make tiny slices of solder and tack then to the ends of the SMD with a microscopic dab of paste flux. My wand is a Weller WESD51 with a fine point tip, set to 630f. This method works instantaneously, which is important with SMD caps. I'm sure there are easier and faster ways, but this works for me. Do the SMD caps before anything else, then you can test them on the board. This is probably the most likely component to be damaged by the heat of your tool so work fast if you use a wand.
reggiechacha
More or less finished my build. Just need an on/off switch and I got the wrong screws to mount the front panel to the case. The synth sounds awesome. Loving it.
Huge thank you to Zthee and also to Thonk.
hv0190
Another TTSH nearly finished ... possibly the first one in Bavaria Mr. Green
Just haven't installed the internal speakers.
Everything is working as expected: I love the Ringmod sound and the filter - the only strange thing is that the sliders in the VCA section are not lit, although the VCA works without any problems hmmm.....
grizzle
hv0190: Do you have power hooked up to the amps? If not, do that. Some of my sliders weren't lit until I wired everything up.
hv0190
Cheers, Grizzle - I'll try that tomorrow. You're right, I haven't hooked up the amps yet thumbs up
reggiechacha
I guess I should mark my 100th post with this:
sduck
Looks great! I'm still a week out of being finished with the first one.

hv0190 - also make sure you have all the little current limiting resistors in place - I keep finding ones I've missed. The VCA one is a 220R one, top right near the top slider.

I've been installing these current limiting resistors popped out a bit - not flush with the pcb - with the idea that if one wanted to modify the colors/type of leds used, you could clip off the old resistor and solder a new one onto the old leads. Save the bother of the whole desoldering thing.
hv0190
sduck wrote:

hv0190 - also make sure you have all the little current limiting resistors in place - I keep finding ones I've missed. The VCA one is a 220R one, top right near the top slider.

I've been installing these current limiting resistors popped out a bit - not flush with the pcb - with the idea that if one wanted to modify the colors/type of leds used, you could clip off the old resistor and solder a new one onto the old leads. Save the bother of the whole desoldering thing.

Thx, I'll take a look tomorrow, I had the funny feeling I'd forgotten one or two resistors anyway w00t
M-Circus
About to tell Mouser to cancel the on/off switch (which I've secured by other means) and ship the remainder of my order. Looking at the build pics, I suddenly realized I'll probably need a bit more wire than I currently stock. What gauge are you guys using here? Around 22-24?

(I seem to remember this having been discussed previously in this thread, but couldn't find it now.)

Edit: never mind. Went with AWG 24. Should probably be fine.
flts
M-Circus wrote:
Looking at the build pics, I suddenly realized I'll probably need a bit more wire than I currently stock. What gauge are you guys using here? Around 22-24?)


I use 24 AWG simply because that's what the white MTA100 connectors I use are specified for. As far as current distribution goes, you'd be fine with much thinner wire, and considering the PCB hole size (in case you want to just solder wires directly to the board), much thicker wire would still work as well. So there's quite a bit of leeway. Around 22-24 sounds very good to me.

Built VCO1 & VCO2 plus some other stuff today, realized that I'm awful at clipping pin headers so I'll need some more material for VCO3 because I managed to completely destroy a few pins. I wish I had ordered one or two more header rows for the auxiliary VCO board mounting.
M-Circus
flts wrote:

I use 24 AWG simply because that's what the white MTA100 connectors I use are specified for.


Checking up on this myself would obviously also be a solution...

Thanks! hihi
Monobass
reggiechacha wrote:
I guess I should mark my 100th post with this:


man, I need to find me 4 days out of thin air smile
Low-Gain
Wish my kits would arrive. waah waah
effegee
reggiechacha wrote:
I got the wrong screws to mount the front panel to the case.


What screws will work? I'm still trying to figure it out.
ultravox
flts wrote:
Built VCO1 & VCO2 plus some other stuff today, realized that I'm awful at clipping pin headers so I'll need some more material for VCO3 because I managed to completely destroy a few pins. I wish I had ordered one or two more header rows for the auxiliary VCO board mounting.


Don't feel bad, I ended up ordering 4 or 5 sticks of header rows because of the terrible job I was doing. It even got to the point where my wife offered to cut them and she knows nothing about electronics. But she did build up the MTA harnesses for me! hihi
flts
ultravox wrote:
Don't feel bad, I ended up ordering 4 or 5 sticks of header rows because of the terrible job I was doing. It even got to the point where my wife offered to cut them and she knows nothing about electronics. But she did build up the MTA harnesses for me! hihi


Hah, I feel your pain!

I'm fine with doing the MTA100 assemblies with the little hand tool I have. I just didn't realize there was so little of the female header row pins in the order because I always screw those up a bit and tend to order extras as well... For some reason I just couldn't find any extras lying around in my component boxes so maybe I'll just order a pack of 10 now lol
reggiechacha
effegee wrote:
reggiechacha wrote:
I got the wrong screws to mount the front panel to the case.


What screws will work? I'm still trying to figure it out.


I've just ordered some 3.5mm self tapping/threading screws. The 2.9mm on the BOM don't quite grip to the case.
guillaume10
hi everybody,
I am just wondering if all the wire in 24AWG (0,20mm2) is enough??
Cablebasher
Where are the UK based fellows getting their nuts, screws and connectors from?

DIY (non synth) was never my strong point.

Also, any photos around of the speakers and reverb tank mounted in the device?

Cheers.
tojpeters
There are no 3 pin female MTA connectors on the BOM and you will also need a couple RCA cables.
elmegil
tojpeters wrote:
There are no 3 pin female MTA connectors on the BOM and you will also need a couple RCA cables.


RCA cables for...?
hv0190
grizzle wrote:
hv0190: Do you have power hooked up to the amps? If not, do that. Some of my sliders weren't lit until I wired everything up.

Oh my ... all I had to do was play around with the LED trimpot and all the sliders were lit ... very frustrating
OK, now everything is working as it's supposed to, I only have a slight noise/hum in the left speaker ... seems to be a grounding issue ... hmmm.....
Altitude909
elmegil wrote:
tojpeters wrote:
There are no 3 pin female MTA connectors on the BOM and you will also need a couple RCA cables.


RCA cables for...?


reverb tank
mangros
On the ceramic caps - I didn't get any from the Mouser BOM because I had plenty spare. However I've only got C0G/NP0 for values under 1nF, anything larger is X7R (still multilayer ceramic).

I reckon I'll need to get some 10nF C0Gs for the oscillators and the filter, but what about everywhere else? It's not going to make much difference in the noise, or electronic switch is it? Or is it?
Heavy Metal Kid
hv0190 wrote:
I only have a slight noise/hum in the left speaker ... seems to be a grounding issue ...


Same here, but it seems to be the noise module leaking into it. It pretty much goes away when I tune the noise down or turn it down.
roglok
mangros wrote:
On the ceramic caps - I didn't get any from the Mouser BOM because I had plenty spare. However I've only got C0G/NP0 for values under 1nF, anything larger is X7R (still multilayer ceramic).

I reckon I'll need to get some 10nF C0Gs for the oscillators and the filter, but what about everywhere else? It's not going to make much difference in the noise, or electronic switch is it? Or is it?


the 10nF in the 4027 submodule was a ceramic disc in the original. the only critical cap in the VCO is the 680p.

the four 10nF in the ladder filter should be quality caps, though. polypropylene, polystyrene or C0G/NP0... i think zthee listed C0G/NP0 for some values because they aren't that much more expensive and to keep the BOM simple...
mangros
roglok wrote:
the four 10nF in the ladder filter should be quality caps, though. polypropylene, polystyrene or C0G/NP0... i think zthee listed C0G/NP0 for some values because they aren't that much more expensive and to keep the BOM simple...


Ah good, I'll try using X7Rs in the other places and see what happens...
treseja
I think, it's good that there are variations with the components. If everybody uses same parts from Mouser etc., all the meanies sound the same. At least I try to use the parts I have been collecting before and hope that I don't screw-up the whole thing.
flts
Updated the first post with some useful information gathered from the thread. If you spot any inaccuracies or missing vital information, please shout swear words at me.

I'm also documenting my own slow build progress with pictures: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ckr3kg84zo4mucn/APVYzUISy9 ... Not very quick at building stuff and haven't had a lot of time to dedicate daily, but already got the power distribution, VCOs, VCF and envelopes done and most of it tested working as well.

The TTSH is really stress free / relaxing to work on so far, since there is nothing very unordinary and the documentation is quite good and thorough. Thumbs up!
andybee
applause

very nice!
I don´t think, they all sound "the same" just because of the mouser
parts...

I just received some parts from a seller called "swle2000"
from ebay.
The parts look good, but you never know, if they are "repainted"
trash or not, but unter the magnifier, they look o.k. will see...
2N4870, 2N5459, 2N3958 and one 2N3954...

happy soldering!!! Dead Banana
ultravox
Looking good fits! thumbs up
flts
On one hand - I somehow suspect the given selection of specific submodules in TTSH (the 4012 filter, etc.) does kind of pin down the specific sound you're going to get. Right after that things like whether you match the transistors (VCA thump or lack of it), power supply stability, choice of reverb tank, the way you calibrate / trim your unit, etc. may have bigger difference in the sound than minor component substitutions.

On the other hand - one cool thing about DIY is that you have to / get to try out things like that yourself. If you take the approach of using whatever you have around and that is, for example, 5% carbon resistors everywhere, X7R ceramic caps everywhere you can get away with it, etc. then maybe your build will have a noticeably different character with all the little extra imperfections and differences here and there adding up.

I've just opted to do the basic build in a pretty close to connect-the-dots way except for the linear PSU, DIY wooden case and probably a MIDI interface. I just love the idea of finally being able to build and play a faithful clone of what has probably always been the #1 dream synth for me, so I only decided to change those default parameters that I really didn't like... power supply because I imagine that the more stable power provided by linears will make a difference in the sound, and the case because one of the things I love about DIY is being to able to make things that look like they were handmade by yourself. Even that means they usually won't look as "professional" as kit cases or 3rd party options.

Of course, obviously in the end the greatest and most obvious difference (given the hardwired selection of circuits implemented) will probably be who is using the synth. The 2600 is a complex enough monster that it seems to be pretty easy to create your "own voice" for (ab)using it. However, this is an obvious point and not really related to build discussion at all anymore.
fuzzbass
I am using Fairchild 2n3906s. The orientation marking on the main board VCO2 (next to the 2N5172) appears to me reversed. Can anyone here who has completed the build comment? Thanks,
sduck
Look up the specs for the part on the mouser BOM, and compare the pinout to the Fairchild ones you have. If they're the same, insert them as marked; if they're different, reverse them.
fuzzbass
sduck wrote:
Look up the specs for the part on the mouser BOM, and compare the pinout to the Fairchild ones you have. If they're the same, insert them as marked; if they're different, reverse them.


The transistors in the Mouser BOM are the same Fairchild units. Let me elaborate. Inspection of the traces on the board show that the left most pins on the 2N5172 and 2N3906 are common. The 2N5172 orientation marking on the board is correct for the units I obtained, and the base is on the left.

From the schematic, I can see the base of the 2N5172 is connected to the collector of the 2N3906. If the 2N3906 is inserted as shown on the board markings, the collector will be the right most pin (and wrong).

Since I am at least as fallable as anyone else, I'm trying to see if anyone can dislodge this argument. Has anyone got VCO2 tested and working with a fairchild 2N3906 inserted as shown on the board? Thanks.
roglok
sounds reasonable. 2N3906 emitter should go to 2N5172 base and the 2N3906 EBC pinout is standard. i'd love to check, but i don't have my PCB yet waah
Clemdu
Quote:
Updated the first post with some useful information gathered from the thread.


Sweet, this first post is really getting useful . Thanks for that ! thumbs up
fuzzbass
[quote="fuzzbass"]
sduck wrote:
From the schematic, I can see the base of the 2N5172 is connected to the collector of the 2N3906. If the 2N3906 is inserted as shown on the board markings, the collector will be the right most pin (and wrong).

Since I am at least as fallable as anyone else, I'm trying to see if anyone can dislodge this argument. Has anyone got VCO2 tested and working with a fairchild 2N3906 inserted as shown on the board? Thanks.


I found my error here, there is nothing wrong with the orientation diagram.
roglok
[quote="fuzzbass"]
fuzzbass wrote:
sduck wrote:
From the schematic, I can see the base of the 2N5172 is connected to the collector of the 2N3906. If the 2N3906 is inserted as shown on the board markings, the collector will be the right most pin (and wrong).

Since I am at least as fallable as anyone else, I'm trying to see if anyone can dislodge this argument. Has anyone got VCO2 tested and working with a fairchild 2N3906 inserted as shown on the board? Thanks.


I found my error here, there is nothing wrong with the orientation diagram.


i see. probably you misread the symbol? the arrow in the transistor symbol indicates hole flow. although for a PNP it points towards the base, the arrow pin is still the emitter...
sduck
[quote="fuzzbass"]
fuzzbass wrote:
sduck wrote:
From the schematic, I can see the base of the 2N5172 is connected to the collector of the 2N3906. If the 2N3906 is inserted as shown on the board markings, the collector will be the right most pin (and wrong).

Since I am at least as fallable as anyone else, I'm trying to see if anyone can dislodge this argument. Has anyone got VCO2 tested and working with a fairchild 2N3906 inserted as shown on the board? Thanks.


I found my error here, there is nothing wrong with the orientation diagram.


Aha! I was curious about this also, after responding earlier, but was busy building the preamp section. I didn't check the pinout or anything, but can verify that the VCO sections all work correctly with the BOM parts installed as per the silkscreened indications.
flts
sduck wrote:
Aha! I was curious about this also, after responding earlier, but was busy building the preamp section. I didn't check the pinout or anything, but can verify that the VCO sections all work correctly with the BOM parts installed as per the silkscreened indications.


Ditto. I'm building pretty much "paint by numbers" style with Mouser parts and trusting the silkscreened orientation indicators, everything I've built (VCOs, VCF, AR/ADSR, VCA) has seemed to work fine so far.
andybee
ohm, yes the mouser transistor is fine!
I noticed one issue:

On VCO 1 you have to support one resistor with +15V.
You also have to do this on VCO2 and VCO3, otherwise
the VCO is working, but VERY VERY slow.

There is also a jumper right near the power supplys
saying: "jumper while building"

maybe this the reason (mine is not jumpered), I also found
nothing written about that....

VCO 1-3 WORKING Chugging Beers
flts
andybee wrote:
On VCO 1 you have to support one resistor with +15V.
You also have to do this on VCO2 and VCO3, otherwise
the VCO is working, but VERY VERY slow.


Yeah, noticed this after checking out LED-man's wiki page in the first post (I think someone mentioned it during this thread), you have to "tune" the VCO2 & VCO3 up by applying +15V to get usable test output as well. I'll add this to the first post since more than one or two people seem to have been initially confused by this.
nickster
Anyone know a good place in Europe for Tolex? Preferably under €20.
flts
nickster wrote:
Anyone know a good place in Europe for Tolex? Preferably under €20.


These are the places I use:

https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/index.php/cat/c119_Tolex.html
http://www.uraltone.com/kaappi-ja-case-tarvikkeet/tolex-grill-cloth/to lex-verhoilukankaat.html

Both stock normal tolex at a bit over 20 euros per a meter (usually around 130-140cm wide) I think. Tube Town will probably be the cheaper one since Uraltone is my local store and Finnish postage costs are usually awful compared to German ones.

Any other tips in EU appreciated, those cover most my needs but alternatives wouldn't hurt. I don't really want to order something as big as that from the US if I can avoid it.
roglok
flts wrote:

Any other tips in EU appreciated, those cover most my needs but alternatives wouldn't hurt.


http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/de/shop_Bezugsstoffe_Bezugsstoffe_Tolex/
flts
^- Thanks!
Heavy Metal Kid
Finished mine yesterday, took me about 50 hours of slow work (including deliberate book keeping):

roglok
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
Finished mine yesterday, took me about 50 hours of slow work (including deliberate book keeping):



applause

GREAT video and superb soundtrack - congratulations!
flts
lovely!
ultravox
Love the documentary - Fantastic!! w00t
treseja
Great work,

I have still something to sort out. very frustrating

ejr27233
I hope this isnt a dumb question but do I need to use shielded cable for the reverb tank and if so how do you wire it up to a 3 pin plug to attach to the PCB?
jbdiver
Yikes! eek! Good luck with sorting through those resistors.
fuzzbass
ejr27233 wrote:
I hope this isnt a dumb question but do I need to use shielded cable for the reverb tank and if so how do you wire it up to a 3 pin plug to attach to the PCB?


Shielded cable is indicated for the reverb tank. The tank involves a pair of low impedance transducers. This is the part of the system most sensitive to bleed and crosstalk. I use RG174 coax. Most pans have RCA connectors, but you might not find any RCA receptacle assembly that will fit the main board. In the US, tubesandmore.com sells a shielded RCA cable assembly with 90 degree ends and red/white plugs. You could take one side apart and solder the wires to your TTSH main board, or install a 3 pin header at that location. Take special care to tie the ground shield to your main board in only one location, to avoid a ground loop. If you are installing a mains AC supply and linear PSU, put as much space as possible between the PSU and the reverb tank/associated wires. Look in the back of a Fender amp to get an idea. The reverb send/return is routed down the side of the cabinet opposite the AC transformer. The loudspeakers are also a potential source of both line noise and audio feedback.

Accutronics claims their tanks are manufactured specifically for open-down or open-up orientation. I think they sound pretty much the same upside down, sideways, on end or right side up. In either case, isolation from noise sources is a more pressing consideration than orientation.

Other noise sources to consider: any panel wires carrying gate or trigger signals. Any wire carrying a signal that is high P-P voltage and has steep ramps or transitions (pulse or saw) can cause clicks/pops to bleed into adjacent audio conductors (particularly line level conductors). Noise generator outputs. Consider running such signals in shielded cable as well. I am not far enough into the build to know if such situations arise with this project, but generally speaking both the sources and targets of crosstalk should be run shielded, unless, of course, you view those effects as desirable.
ejr27233
Thanks for that, very helpful
reggiechacha
reggiechacha wrote:
effegee wrote:
reggiechacha wrote:
I got the wrong screws to mount the front panel to the case.


What screws will work? I'm still trying to figure it out.


I've just ordered some 3.5mm self tapping/threading screws. The 2.9mm on the BOM don't quite grip to the case.


3.5mm Screws arrived today and they are a much better fit. Here's where I got mine:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370946152910
elmegil
Thanks for the reference Reggiechacha; one thing: how long do the screws need to be? I'd expect 1/4" to work? I'm not seeing this on the BOM....
Kipling
elmegil wrote:
Thanks for the reference Reggiechacha; one thing: how long do the screws need to be? I'd expect 1/4" to work? I'm not seeing this on the BOM....

Yes I'm sure ¼" should work but I've gone for 5/8ths so I can use the remaining 46 elsewhere.
reggiechacha
elmegil wrote:
Thanks for the reference Reggiechacha; one thing: how long do the screws need to be? I'd expect 1/4" to work? I'm not seeing this on the BOM....


Mine are 3/8" or 9mm in length. Reckon a 1/4 would be better.
sduck
Protip: the 100K and 180K resistor markings on the PCB look VERY similar, especially if you have older eyes like mine. In almost every section that has 180Ks, I've had to go back through my 100K resistors and find the one(s) that I put in the wrong holes. I made a high rez scan of the PCB - it's very handy for this purpose. I tend to stuff all the resistors in a section before soldering, so this hasn't been a big problem so far.
mangros
Damn it, just realised I ordered the wrong slide switches. very frustrating

The second column of the BOM says 46206LRX - this is the wrong part (massive switch with solder lugs). God knows why I used this rather than the Mouser number, 502-C56206L2X, which is for C56206L2X, the correct part.
ultravox
sduck wrote:
I made a high rez scan of the PCB - it's very handy for this purpose...


I've finished installing everything on the PCB but would be mighty grateful if you could share your high rez scan. we're not worthy

Cheers
sduck
I'll post it (them actually) sometime tomorrow. I tried joining them up in photoshop only to find how little I actually know about using photoshop.
guillaume10
Same problem as Sduck, I need to change my glasses,
I have make some mistake with the 100k and 180k....

also on the BOM a 4k7 is missing...there is 11 on the PCB and only 10 in the BOM.
Pfurmel
sduck wrote:
I'll post it (them actually) sometime tomorrow. I tried joining them up in photoshop only to find how little I actually know about using photoshop.


Its the thought that counts lol
flts
I still have a pretty good eyesight but what's saved me more than that is that I just tend to take one module (in build docs order), stuff all the resistors, solder them, stuff all the diodes, solder them, etc. so if I accidentally misread something I'll notice the error before the point where I'd have to desolder anything (hey, where's the spot for this one?)

The flipside of being kind of slow and meticulous with getting things right the first time is, of course, that all builds take quite a bit of time and you don't learn basic troubleshooting skills as fast lol
sduck
ultravox wrote:
sduck wrote:
I made a high rez scan of the PCB - it's very handy for this purpose...


I've finished installing everything on the PCB but would be mighty grateful if you could share your high rez scan.


Ok...

Damn, that's too big, I threw them into zips on dropbox -
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12150305/TTSHpcbBackscans.zip
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12150305/TTSHpcbCompscans.zip
roglok
sduck wrote:
ultravox wrote:
sduck wrote:
I made a high rez scan of the PCB - it's very handy for this purpose...


I've finished installing everything on the PCB but would be mighty grateful if you could share your high rez scan.


Ok...

Damn, that's too big, I threw them into zips on dropbox -
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12150305/TTSHpcbBackscans.zip
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12150305/TTSHpcbCompscans.zip


nice one! thanks for these! thumbs up
satindas
I have a little question regarding the use of a linear PSU...If using a linear psu, would you connect +/-15 at the regular psu input and jumper the DC-DC converter ins to the outs, with 0V connected to GND on the DC-DC.... OR just connect +/-15V and 0V straight to the DC-DC converter outs ? seriously, i just don't get it
fuzzbass
sduck wrote:
Ok...

Damn, that's too big, I threw them into zips on dropbox -
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12150305/TTSHpcbBackscans.zip
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12150305/TTSHpcbCompscans.zip


Thank you, these will be very useful for finding all my errors before soldering.
roglok
sduck wrote:
I tried joining them up in photoshop only to find how little I actually know about using photoshop.


there, i fixed it

http://hyperground.de/dropbox/TTSH_PCB.zip

sort of...
fuzzbass
satindas wrote:
I have a little question regarding the use of a linear PSU...If using a linear psu, would you connect +/-15 at the regular psu input and jumper the DC-DC converter ins to the outs, with 0V connected to GND on the DC-DC.... OR just connect +/-15V and 0V straight to the DC-DC converter outs ? seriously, i just don't get it


You have some choices. The speakers and associated circuitry are spec'ed at +12VDC and OV, while the rest of the synth requires a 15VDC bipolar supply. Some have commented here that the speaker amps will work at +15VDC but I have not tested that myself. Assuming they are correct, you could utilize a +/- 15VDC linear supply, bring that into the points where the outputs of the 12>15VDC converter go, and jumper the +15VDC and 0V over to the preceding section that feeds the speaker amps.

What I am doing is incorporating the 12>15VDC converter, but eliminating the wall wart. I obtained a Power One +12VDC linear supply for this. I have also worked out mouser parts compatible with that supply to support C13 interlock cable, fusing and voltage selector. The Power One supply is built for international use, so with proper entry and cabling, you can build the synth for travel around the world. I have this worked out and can share it with anyone who is interested. Power One supplies are cheap and plentiful on eBay, but I plan to replace the power transistor and caps on the unit I purchased. Total cost of this (PSU, entry module, fuse drawer, voltage selector, fuses and replacement parts) was ~$75US.

One thing to consider with Power One/Condor supplies is that for units over 1Amp, the power transistors are exposed with live DC voltage on them. Being the nut that I am, I have figured out how to insulate them, and I can share this with anyone who might be interested. Once insulated, you could then bring the back plate of the supply (which is the heat sink) to the outside of your case, which would put the heat sink on the outside. Just and idea...
elmegil
roglok wrote:
sduck wrote:
I tried joining them up in photoshop only to find how little I actually know about using photoshop.


there, i fixed it

http://hyperground.de/dropbox/TTSH_PCB.zip

sort of...


Beat me to the punch, I was about to post the same thing :-)

I think yours looks better than mine....
nickster
Thanks guys!
nickster
Are these the correct 3 pin female MTA headers that are missing from the BOM?

Mouser part number: 571-3-640440-3

http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/3-640440-3/?qs= sGAEpiMZZMs%252bGHln7q6pm48SVpWlpfsEvZFqTyDCp40%3d
tojpeters
Yes I believe so.
nickster
Cheers!
flts
fuzzbass wrote:
You have some choices. The speakers and associated circuitry are spec'ed at +12VDC and OV, while the rest of the synth requires a 15VDC bipolar supply. Some have commented here that the speaker amps will work at +15VDC but I have not tested that myself. Assuming they are correct, you could utilize a +/- 15VDC linear supply, bring that into the points where the outputs of the 12>15VDC converter go, and jumper the +15VDC and 0V over to the preceding section that feeds the speaker amps.


That is what I'm doing myself.

I haven't yet built - or powered - the speaker amps since I'm only somewhere around 2/3 in the PCB build so I can't confirm if this works yet, but I decided to take this route because I couldn't immediately see why it wouldn't work.
jbdiver
nickster wrote:
Are these the correct 3 pin female MTA headers that are missing from the BOM?

Mouser part number: 571-3-640440-3

http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/3-640440-3/?qs= sGAEpiMZZMs%252bGHln7q6pm48SVpWlpfsEvZFqTyDCp40%3d


You should check the color of those headers.

I ordered Mouser part#: 571-3-640441-3 -- these match the white male headers in the BOM. The key is to match the color with your wire gauge. I'm using 24AWG wire so the white headers are the appropriate choice.
flts
jbdiver wrote:
nickster wrote:
Are these the correct 3 pin female MTA headers that are missing from the BOM?

Mouser part number: 571-3-640440-3

http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/3-640440-3/?qs= sGAEpiMZZMs%252bGHln7q6pm48SVpWlpfsEvZFqTyDCp40%3d


You should check the color of those headers.

I ordered Mouser part#: 571-3-640441-3 -- these match the white male headers in the BOM. The key is to match the color with your wire gauge. I'm using 24AWG wire so the white headers are the appropriate choice.


My understanding is that you have different colored female MTA100 connectors because of how thick wire fits them, but the contact pins that mate to PCB are always the same pitch (.100") and width. So you always use those white male / PCB connectors no matter what kind of female cable connectors you use BUT you match the color of the female connector to the thickness of the wire you use.

Btw. Caveat emptor: the MTA100 connectors I bought need to have wires inserted to them from 90 degree angle which means they will NOT fit the power distribution connectors near the TTSH power supply since the PCB headers are so close to each other. The power distribution calls for connectors where the wire comes straight out from the top of the connector, I have no idea which MTA100 connectors are like that if any.

If anyone has an idea, I'd welcome any tips - as it stands, I'll probably just solder the wires directly on the power supply side and use MTA100 connectors I have on the module side where there's more clearance.
elmegil
For female headers I gave up on the press-fit ones a long time ago. Too many problems. I prefer to get the crimp and insert headers, and I solder them as extra insurance. That also means they're a little less tetchy about wire gauge--I generally use 22AWG for everything.
ultravox
sduck you're the cats meow! Many-Many Thanks!! thumbs up
Thanks also to roglok for stitching these together. applause

sduck wrote:
ultravox wrote:
sduck wrote:
I made a high rez scan of the PCB - it's very handy for this purpose...


I've finished installing everything on the PCB but would be mighty grateful if you could share your high rez scan.


Ok...

Damn, that's too big, I threw them into zips on dropbox -
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12150305/TTSHpcbBackscans.zip
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12150305/TTSHpcbCompscans.zip
tojpeters
I always solder the 'press fit' ones. No way I would trust press fit for power connections.
M-Circus
Just starting out with the assembly here. Did the IC sockets on the main board yesterday, and figured I'd do the oscillator boards tonight. At least if I can work up the courage to do the SMD parts...

Anyway, looking at the instructions, I notice Zthee haven't used any sockets for the CA3046s on the oscillator boards. Seems a bit odd to me, as he's using them for all other ICs. Is there any reason for this choice I'm unaware of, or is it just a personal preference on Zthee's side? .
roglok
M-Circus wrote:

Anyway, looking at the instructions, I notice Zthee haven't used any sockets for the CA3046s on the oscillator boards. Seems a bit odd to me, as he's using them for all other ICs. Is there any reason for this choice I'm unaware of, or is it just a personal preference on Zthee's side? .


personal preference on his side. i think initially he might have been concerned about board height / clearance issues...
M-Circus
Thanks. I suspected as much, but couldn't understand that the added height would be much trouble, as there are other components way taller.
sduck
I socketed mine, and it's still lower than the big blue cap.

Don't forget to do the smt caps first - you're welcome.
M-Circus
Yeah, thanks for that. Installing them first probably made it a lot easier. Think it went okay. Cocked up a little bit on the first one, resulting in it ending up being a bit askew (a little part of the capacitor is outside the metal plate on one end), but hopefully it won't be a problem. I guess I can always desolder it if I encounter any problems when I test it down the line.
elmegil
tojpeters wrote:
I always solder the 'press fit' ones. No way I would trust press fit for power connections.


I've never been able to figure out how I might do that without melting the header into slag. Got any tips? :-)
sduck
Pop the little contact things out. Stick them in one side of a helping hands jig, stick your stripped wire in the other "hand". Solder away. Reinsert into header. Lather, rinse, repeat.

After doing this several hundred times you come to your senses and order the 30$ hand tool and cram the wires in there with that. Never had a bad connection that way, although the solder method does help me sleep better.
elmegil
...never realized they popped out. I do have the hand tool for the smaller gauge wire/headers, just got sick and tired of having the header fall over and pinch my fingers with the force I was applying.... And I did have a few problems even with the tool--probably just don't quite grok the right way to apply it I'm thinking, but a similarly priced crimp tool and the right headers and I'm happy. :-)
Jonachi
Don't know if this has been posted before:

grizzle
My TTSH is finally done, and 95% calibrated. I have a question regarding the clock input. I'm using an analog four to control it at the moment, and for some reason I can't get the clock out of the A4 to control the clock input to the S&H. Would either of the trimmers on the S&H affect how it accepts an external clock? Does anyone know what the exact setting should be?

Cheers,
Alex
mush
afaik - external clock only goes to the electronic switch in an 2600 - my ttsh works the same as yours.
D.Sabotage
Has anyone used an MFOS power supply (or similar) to feed the TTSH instead of using THAT DC converter?
roglok
mush wrote:
afaik - external clock only goes to the electronic switch in an 2600 - my ttsh works the same as yours.


block diagram and schematics suggest this is not the case hmmm.....



mush
Sorry. I tried using a square wave from osc 1 as external clock now for the s&h and it works.
mangros
D.Sabotage wrote:
Has anyone used an MFOS power supply (or similar) to feed the TTSH instead of using THAT DC converter?


I'm using an Oakley Compact PSU with a 1A wall-wart in half-wave mode. It gives a safe 400mA on each line according to the docs. I'm wiring +15V/0/-15V to the pads where the DC converter outputs would be.

I'm only at the VCF in testing, but things are working so far.

The problem with this setup is trying to run two speakers from the +15V line - it'll probably overload that PSU. So I'm not bothering with speakers for now. If I want to use speakers in the future I could upgrade it to the bigger Oakley PSU with a Yamaha PA-20 supply, and it'll still be cheaper than the DC-DC converter!
Heavy Metal Kid
grizzle wrote:
I'm using an analog four to control it at the moment, and for some reason I can't get the clock out of the A4 to control the clock input to the S&H.


Have you set the A4 to send 10V triggers?
M-Circus
PSU section coming up next here. Looks like I'm missing the 2 pin .156″ connector mentioned in the build instructions. I presume this must be one used for connecting the PSU section to the power adapter (all the way to the top on the PCB)? Anyway, would be happy if someone could point me in the right direction for sourcing this, preferably somewhere in Europe.
sealion
screaming goo yo Almost here. Tomorrow...
sduck
M-Circus wrote:
PSU section coming up next here. Looks like I'm missing the 2 pin .156″ connector mentioned in the build instructions. I presume this must be one used for connecting the PSU section to the power adapter (all the way to the top on the PCB)? Anyway, would be happy if someone could point me in the right direction for sourcing this, preferably somewhere in Europe.


It's mouser part# 571-6404452 - it's in the BOM, should be in the mouser cart, it was in mine. BTW you presume correctly.
M-Circus
Aah, there it was. Too many plastic bags of parts around. Also found the rest of the power supply stuff in the same bag. Thanks for clearing that up.

Now I only need to locate a proper power supply.
StillNotWorking
Fiddling around with this Behringer EQ to see if can be a reused as sequencer or synth cab with sliders I noticed the knobs can be pulled. I haven't ordered the TTSH sliders yet so I don't know if they fit. If they do there will normally be 62 of them on these kind of devices. Just an idea to the pool.

mush
The footprint won't work with the TTSH. I'd love those slidercaps though.
sduck
M-Circus wrote:

Now I only need to locate a proper power supply.


Don't know if this will help, but I bought a (mouser part) 418-TRG45A15-02-V - it's a universal supply, outputs 15v DC, with the 2.5 plug included it works with the power jack in the TTSH BOM, all you need to do is get the appropriate IEC plug for your area (in the US a 173-63101-E will work). Don't know if that's available from euro mouser, but maybe it'll help you search. I like this kind, as it doesn't have a wallwart hogging 2 plugs.
flts
I'm being really thick here, but (how) are you supposed to mount the amplifier heatsinks securely to the PCB?

I see the TDA2030 itself can be screwed to the heatsink normally with a small screw & nut (would you use heat transfer compound between the TDA and the heatsink?), but the heatsinks themselves only have small "stubs" that go through the holes on the PCB - no threads on them so you can't use a nut to attach them to the PCB.

Should one melt a blob of solder to them to attach them or just leave them free in the holes like that? It seems the TDA2030's legs would take all the weight if the heatsink wasn't secured by other means, and I don't know if that's OK on the long run. Maybe I'm just worrying too much / being too anal, the TDA has five legs and you can solder them pretty sturdily in as well.

edit: The heatsink info page says "solderable pins" so I suppose it's kind of _meant_ to be soldered to place. The TTSH PCB doesn't have solder pads for the sink though, I wonder if just melting solder to the "legs" of the heatsink would make the solder blob enough around the hole so that it would keep the heatsink in place. Hm...
reggiechacha
flts wrote:
I'm being really thick here, but (how) are you supposed to mount the amplifier heatsinks securely to the PCB?

I see the TDA2030 itself can be screwed to the heatsink normally with a small screw & nut (would you use heat transfer compound between the TDA and the heatsink?), but the heatsinks themselves only have small "stubs" that go through the holes on the PCB - no threads on them so you can't use a nut to attach them to the PCB.

Should one melt a blob of solder to them to attach them or just leave them free in the holes like that? It seems the TDA2030's legs would take all the weight if the heatsink wasn't secured by other means, and I don't know if that's OK on the long run. Maybe I'm just worrying too much / being too anal, the TDA has five legs and you can solder them pretty sturdily in as well.

edit: The heatsink info page says "solderable pins" so I suppose it's kind of _meant_ to be soldered to place. The TTSH PCB doesn't have solder pads for the sink though, I wonder if just melting solder to the "legs" of the heatsink would make the solder blob enough around the hole so that it would keep the heatsink in place. Hm...



I used one of these kits to connect the 2030 to the heat sink

http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/155140/SCI-A18-9B-Mounting-Materia l-Kit-For-TO-220-Package-Compatible-with-TO-220-Material-Glimmer

The mistake I made was to solder the 2030 in place first and then realised it was too low and wouldn't line up with the heat sink. After some desoldering I connected the 2030 to the heat sink using the kit and then soldered it in place whilst still connected to the heat sink. Once done it's fairly sturdy.
M-Circus
sduck wrote:
M-Circus wrote:

Now I only need to locate a proper power supply.


Don't know if this will help, but I bought a (mouser part) 418-TRG45A15-02-V - it's a universal supply, outputs 15v DC, with the 2.5 plug included it works with the power jack in the TTSH BOM, all you need to do is get the appropriate IEC plug for your area (in the US a 173-63101-E will work). Don't know if that's available from euro mouser, but maybe it'll help you search. I like this kind, as it doesn't have a wallwart hogging 2 plugs.


Thanks! I actually found an unused one at work that fit the bill, so should be sorted. However, I only realized tonight that I would be needing 18 AWG hook-up wire for connecting to the power supply. Which I don't have. Kind of a bummer, as it halts progress until I receive it. Guess I'll have to place another Mouser order. I could obviously just solder on in the meantime, but wouldn't be able to measure much.

Btw, what's the opinion on how to insert wire into the MTA connector? Will a flat screwdriver do or is some sort of special crimping tool needed?
sealion
Digi-key had a couple of them in stock if you want the big ticket dc converter. Got one this morning.
diablojoy
Quote:
I'm being really thick here, but (how) are you supposed to mount the amplifier heatsinks securely to the PCB?

I flipped the heatsinks upside down so tabs up and then tapped the other end for M3 screws to securely attach the heatsinks to the board .
this also got the hole in the heatsink for the 2030 at a nicer height
the 2030's sit down on the board

also with all the 3.5mm ethenvar jacks i clipped off the metal tabs that they normally sit on, this got the board closer to the panel so the slide switch solder tabs are sitting far better in their holes for soldering.
flts
reggiechacha wrote:
The mistake I made was to solder the 2030 in place first and then realised it was too low and wouldn't line up with the heat sink. After some desoldering I connected the 2030 to the heat sink using the kit and then soldered it in place whilst still connected to the heat sink. Once done it's fairly sturdy.


Yeah, I "dry fit" the whole TDA + heatsink assembly to the board and noticed that you pretty much have to do it like that, first screw the heat sink to the chip and only then fit the legs to the PCB and solder. If you could just flip the heatsink vertically the hole would be on perfect height...

diablojoy wrote:
I flipped the heatsinks upside down so tabs up and then tapped the other end for M3 screws to securely attach the heatsinks to the board . this also got the hole in the heatsink for the 2030 at a nicer height
the 2030's sit down on the board


... which means this sounds like a REALLY good idea. Too bad I don't have a tap handy, probably just going for a "ghetto" solution and keeping the orientation as it is.

diablojoy wrote:
also with all the 3.5mm ethenvar jacks i clipped off the metal tabs that they normally sit on, this got the board closer to the panel so the slide switch solder tabs are sitting far better in their holes for soldering.


This sounds like a nifty trick as well. I already soldered some of the Erthenvar/Thonk jacks on the PCB for testing, so not going to use that idea either, but it _would_ have been nice to get the slide switches seated a bit better for peace of mind.

M-Circus wrote:
Btw, what's the opinion on how to insert wire into the MTA connector? Will a flat screwdriver do or is some sort of special crimping tool needed?


Based on my experience so far I'd either use the T-handle MTA hand tool (available on Mouser, Digikey, etc.) and push insulated wire in place with that, OR strip the wire and then somehow solder it to the connector - someone mentioned in another thread that the pins would pop out and you could then solder to them but I've never tried that out.

I wouldn't trust to get a good and sturdy connection using a screwdriver on one of those connectors. It's probably not impossible (as most things aren't), just a bit too tricky to get right for me.
Cablebasher
Reading this thread it seems like there is quite a lot of work and fiddling around involved that is not covered in the build docs.

I am talking about the power, heat sinks, mounting the speakers and the reverb unit and finishing up (putting it all together).

It would be good if this could all be added to the build docs for those of us who are slightly less experienced.
Luap
For those of you that have finished yours, how long did the build take you?

Secondly, I get the impression most folk are going for larger sized reverb tanks. I think i'd prefer to use a medium to small sized one. Would anyone happen to be able to recommend a good one to use?
A part number, if possible would be greatly appreciated spinning
D.Sabotage
sduck wrote:
M-Circus wrote:

Now I only need to locate a proper power supply.


Don't know if this will help, but I bought a (mouser part) 418-TRG45A15-02-V - it's a universal supply, outputs 15v DC, with the 2.5 plug included it works with the power jack in the TTSH BOM, all you need to do is get the appropriate IEC plug for your area (in the US a 173-63101-E will work). Don't know if that's available from euro mouser, but maybe it'll help you search. I like this kind, as it doesn't have a wallwart hogging 2 plugs.


Good call. Thanks.
mush
It took me 16 hours at the soldering station. I worked at max three hours at a time to make sure I didn't make any mistakes due to lost focus. Knowing myself I guess...
flts
It looks my build will clock at 40+ hours total even without the amazing amount of documentation others have done here (I've just snapped a few pictures with my mobile phone at the end of every evening). But I already know I'm slow at building, and decided to take it easy one module at a time, test, move to next one, have a break, etc.

And that's excluding the case which I should get round designing & making once the synth itself is ready.
M-Circus
flts wrote:

Based on my experience so far I'd either use the T-handle MTA hand tool (available on Mouser, Digikey, etc.) and push insulated wire in place with that, OR strip the wire and then somehow solder it to the connector - someone mentioned in another thread that the pins would pop out and you could then solder to them but I've never tried that out.

I wouldn't trust to get a good and sturdy connection using a screwdriver on one of those connectors. It's probably not impossible (as most things aren't), just a bit too tricky to get right for me.


Okay then. Will order one of those T-handle thingies.
sealion
For those ordering the BOM from Mouser late at night when their chat people are hard to get, be careful you do not double order. Their server seemed slow as I hunted to add a few other things I needed. After the first push to order, if nothing happens, do nothing. Wait. I hit refresh, saw no changes. Did I press twice?

Or was it the lag from deleting the older saved Dec BOM in the same session? Both the current and the older BOM had the same name. Did their server order both files? We don't know.

Mouser staff were great about fixing it the next day and now we are undoing the charges, a double order cancelled and a fresh order shipped.

Last thing, the new BOM seems to catch all the incorrect numbers of parts discussed in this thread. I am going to hand check it all against the BOM when it arrives. Digi-key has shipped the $ dc-dc unit so it is in stock there.
sealion
Peerless speaker gaskets for the space from the panel to the speaker.

If anyone is good at CAD layout, could someone design a sheet of cork gaskets with screw holes we could order from Ponoko? They could be stacked if they have thin sheets and should compress nicely. But, you need to have good measurements and know speaker throw clearances and have layout software skills. It would be useful to the project and I'd be happy to pay a designer royalty when I ordered.
Kipling
sealion wrote:
Peerless speaker gaskets for the space from the panel to the speaker.

If anyone is good at CAD layout, could someone design a sheet of cork gaskets with screw holes we could order from Ponoko? They could be stacked if they have thin sheets and should compress nicely. But, you need to have good measurements and know speaker throw clearances and have layout software skills. It would be useful to the project and I'd be happy to pay a designer royalty when I ordered.


I've created a suitable drawing in AutoCAD which I could send you. I'm going to cut mine in 6mm MDF but any semi-rigid material at least 6mm thick will suffice. AutoCAD files are not valid attachments on posts so I could attach it to a PM if it's allowed there.
elmegil
Kipling wrote:

I've created a suitable drawing in AutoCAD which I could send you. I'm going to cut mine in 6mm MDF but any semi-rigid material at least 6mm thick will suffice. AutoCAD files are not valid attachments on posts so I could attach it to a PM if it's allowed there.


Will putting it in a zip file work?

When you say "semi-rigid" is the "semi" part important? I'm considering getting the gaskets cut out of acrylic with a laser cutter I have access to.
Kipling
elmegil wrote:


Will putting it in a zip file work?

When you say "semi-rigid" is the "semi" part important? I'm considering getting the gaskets cut out of acrylic with a laser cutter I have access to.

Rigid or semi-rigid is what I meant to say so MDF, acrylic, cork etc. d'oh!

Needs to be 6mm or greater thicknes.

Here's a pdf version for now - just trying to retrieve the CAD file from my work system so will add that as a zip file shortly.

Edit: And a zipped CAD file.... thumbs up
lessavyfav
Top soldering... So ugly to me. Am I the only who thinks so?

I cut a foam core board to match the large pcb, I'm stuffing resistors with the pcb up on standoffs, put the foam core over the top, flip solder and repeat. Doing all the resistor/diodes first normal style. M'I being dumb?
roglok
u no mad bro. me no like top solder too!!!1
sduck
No, I'm soldering leads up for everything also. Generally I've been stuffing all the resistors and diodes for a section, then soldering it all, clip leads, then stuff everything else, solder and clip, test, repeat.
diablojoy
yeah i wasnt keen on the soldering components up , used long standoffs and my usual bluetac to hold in place, flip and solder each section.
made a couple of speaker shims this weekend out of 10mm clear acrylic
100 x 90mm - 72mm hole dead center then lined up mounting holes and drilled them, pretty quick and easy overall though drilling the large hole on the drill press took some consideration and a shop made jig to clamp it
securely.
haha briefly considered lighting em to match the sliders lol
pink glowy speaker grills ? well maybe it's an idea.
flts
sduck wrote:
No, I'm soldering leads up for everything also. Generally I've been stuffing all the resistors and diodes for a section, then soldering it all, clip leads, then stuff everything else, solder and clip, test, repeat.


Ditto. I tried top soldering for the resistors of couple of sections (never done that before) and it does feel kind of ugly plus at least for me not nearly as easy / fast as the "normal" way. So I reverted back to "stuff, flip, solder & clip" again in the end.
etaoin
I just finished my first one (another one to go). Everything seems to be working fine, but I'm seeing two issues that might be familiar to someone here:

First is noise bleeding into the left amp. This is high frequency noise so sounds like cross talk. It goes away if you turn down noise level or lower the noise 'pitch'. It goes *up* if you pull one of the LEDs from the sliders, which makes me think it's actually cross talk coming in through the sliders and the LED circuit (which is the only thing that is shared between noise and the left amp).
I have already fixed the 470R series resistor going to the wrong ground.

Second is that the clock LED bleeds into the VCO pitch (and maybe more, but pitch is the most obvious one). This goes away completely if you pull out the clock LED out, so the LED is definitely the cause. At first I thought the circuit might be underpowered (I'm using the 500mA DC-DC converter), but it's only using 250mA at most and it's still there if I use a 2 x 3A PowerOne supply.

Any thoughts?
Heavy Metal Kid
etaoin wrote:
First is noise bleeding into the left amp. This is high frequency noise so sounds like cross talk. It goes away if you turn down noise level or lower the noise 'pitch'. It goes *up* if you pull one of the LEDs from the sliders, which makes me think it's actually cross talk coming in through the sliders and the LED circuit (which is the only thing that is shared between noise and the left amp).


I have the same thing. Tried to hook the "free" ground hole (next to the slider) up to the ground on the noise colour slider, but that just bypasses the colour slider altogether.

etaoin wrote:
I have already fixed the 470R series resistor going to the wrong ground.


Could you please specify what this fix was, and what the problem was?

etaoin wrote:
Second is that the clock LED bleeds into the VCO pitch (and maybe more, but pitch is the most obvious one). This goes away completely if you pull out the clock LED out, so the LED is definitely the cause. At first I thought the circuit might be underpowered (I'm using the 500mA DC-DC converter), but it's only using 250mA at most and it's still there if I use a 2 x 3A PowerOne supply.


I'm experiencing this too. Have tried a ton of different things to sort it out. It sounds like the circuit is under powered, but my PSU is 19V 6.32A.

I think I tried removing the clock LED without success, but desoldering the transistor that is connected to that LED eliminated the problem at least.

If I remove the power from all modules except clock and VCO1, then all LEDs go dark, except the clock and the VCO which now blinks in synch with the clock LED.

Also, one VCO's pitch is affected when I adjust the sliders of the two others. This problem goes away when I insert a jack into the CV inputs on the oscillators. So there must be some kind of thing happening across the CV line.
etaoin
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:

Could you please specify what this fix was, and what the problem was?


The hole the pcb legend uses is the amp ground (pre DC-DC converter). The hole next to the slider is post DC-DC converter. As the LEDs are powered from the DC-DC converter, I think that ground is better. Although it didn't make any difference in mine. The grounds are connected anyway (as per changed build doc), but somehow it feels better if it's connected to the right one.

What I think is happening re the noise is that it bleeds from the noise volume pot into the LED circuit due to stray capacitance in the slider (the tracks next to each other) and then bleeds into the output signal through the left volume slider. I might be completely wrong, but that's the only path I can see. The circuits are otherwise completely separate, even power-wise.

Re your LEDs: if you unplug modules some of the LED circuits will float. I have already seen that gives weird effects as some parts will then get power through other parts of the circuit.


Quote:
Also, one VCO's pitch is affected when I adjust the sliders of the two others. This problem goes away when I insert a jack into the CV inputs on the oscillators. So there must be some kind of thing happening across the CV line.


Don't know what build stage you are in, but this might just be a floating input, i.e. the keyboard cv input not yet connected. Have you left the jumper on at VCO1?
flts
Mine is finally built (minus case, calibration and the final power supply) and works fine & sounds even better than I expected - it's pretty much a dream come true for me.



Some notes about power use:

Running from a bipolar bench power supply (so no DC-DC converter on the board here), the "baseline" power use with leds on & bright is something like 0.25A per rail. So far so good.

I'm now running the speaker amps directly from the +15V rail of the split supply. No problems whatsoever. With moderate volume (more than enough for solo tweaking for me), the amps chomp around 0.2A which makes around 0.45-0.5A total on the positive rail. However, when the speakers are really blasting (pretty much everything at full volume and overdriven), the pair of amps take up around 0.5A, thus I was able to get total current figures of around 0.7-0.75A on the positive rail maximum - the negative rail still being at around 0.25-0.3A.

So the 0.8A per rail Power One I've planned to install to the case might run the speakers at moderate volumes, but not necessarily at full power? I have no idea how conservatively the Power One PSUs are rated. Does anyone have an idea whether the HAA-15-0.8A will actually still give out specified voltages cleanly at (close to) 0.8A per rail current consumption or whether it'll start coughing well before that?

FWIW if you are using an on-board DC-DC converter and an external power supply like most are, you won't have to think very much about this, since the speaker amp power is tapped before the DC-DC so you don't have to add those figures to the DC-DC converter's maximum power. All you need is a wall wart (or line lump) that will output enough power, which is pretty trivial I suppose.

Now I just need to get into building the case, and make a decision about the final PSU.
guillaume10
Hi everybody,
It would be very kind if someone with a full assembled pcb could post a very hi resolution picture Withh all the component on pcb...
Many thanks
AK/DK
Yo! Just completed the PSU section and it seems I've fallen at the first hurdle - the DC-DC is outputting nothing. I'm using the TDK lambda and measure 12v on the v+ in, 0v on V- in, and 2.5v on the ctrl pin - does this sound right?

I'm using a 12v DC 2A power supply.

Maybe it's a dead DC-DC converter?

Is anyone able to test their voltages?
Cheers!
reggiechacha
After my initial success and having fun with my TTSH I powered up tonight and found VCO1 has decided not to pass through the filter unless patched. I've been looking at the board to try and follow the signal from the square wave and managed followed it to where it modulates VCO 2 but couldn't trace it from there. The original arp service manual doesn't appear to help. Any suggestions welcome.
satindas
Just reading this... "Each builder might want to experiment with the gain of the circuit to get it working to his/her preference.", and wondering, has anybody done this , and to what effect ?
sduck
AK/DK wrote:
Yo! Just completed the PSU section and it seems I've fallen at the first hurdle - the DC-DC is outputting nothing. I'm using the TDK lambda and measure 12v on the v+ in, 0v on V- in, and 2.5v on the ctrl pin - does this sound right?

I'm using a 12v DC 2A power supply.

Maybe it's a dead DC-DC converter?

Is anyone able to test their voltages?


I don't think it's possible to insert these things the wrong way, so my first guess would be yes, it might be a dead converter. Can you remove it and check it out off the board? It's odd that the ctrl pin is putting out something - is there any chance you've shorted something on the output side of the converter?
reggiechacha
reggiechacha wrote:
After my initial success and having fun with my TTSH I powered up tonight and found VCO1 has decided not to pass through the filter unless patched. I've been looking at the board to try and follow the signal from the square wave and managed followed it to where it modulates VCO 2 but couldn't trace it from there. The original arp service manual doesn't appear to help. Any suggestions welcome.


I was worried the problem was mechanical and it looks like I'm right. There's no continuity from the vco 1 input jack through to the vcf mixer. Must have damaged it with a cable. Looks like I have some de-soldering to do.
AK/DK
sduck wrote:

I don't think it's possible to insert these things the wrong way, so my first guess would be yes, it might be a dead converter. Can you remove it and check it out off the board? It's odd that the ctrl pin is putting out something - is there any chance you've shorted something on the output side of the converter?


Hey sduck - thanks for your reply. Yes the DC-DC only goes in one way, I've been looking for a short and am measuring 2.02k resistance between +V and -V which doesn't sound right...
sduck
So, what's the deal with the 2N5172 on the back of the electronic switch? It's not in the parts list in the build docs, and isn't populated in his pictures, but it looks like something that needs to be there. Have those of you who've finished this installed it? Has anyone skipped it? hmmm.....
jbdiver
I just installed the 2N5172 a short while ago. It was on the BOM, so I figured it must be used. I haven't tested that section of the synth yet.
mush
sduck wrote:
So, what's the deal with the 2N5172 on the back of the electronic switch? It's not in the parts list in the build docs, and isn't populated in his pictures, but it looks like something that needs to be there. Have those of you who've finished this installed it? Has anyone skipped it? hmmm.....


It is part of a later section, the LEDs...
flts
The top side 2N5172 is indeed mentioned in the LED driver ("finishing up") part of the build docs. As far as I can see from the schematics (it's listed as a separate circuit on the LED driver page), it's only responsible for switching the LED on/off for clock rate slider LED at the rate of the internal clock, and nothing else.

So if you don't like Das Blinkenlights or the on/off switching is causing noise in other parts of the circuit for some reason, I suppose you don't need to install it - I suppose in that case you can jumper the connection from positive voltage rail to the particular slider LED anode to get that slider light up at all. I installed the transistor and it works fine, the clock rate slider LED blinks in a nice way lol

Btw. On first real powerup, I also noticed that the VCA module LED base brightness was much lower than the other sections for some reason. Didn't remember to check / trace what kind of current limiting resistor was used there in comparison to other sections. Turning up the LED brightness trimmer a bit did the trick - now all the LEDs seem to be operating at visually around uniform brightness. I remember someone else might have mentioned the same thing before in the thread. So don't be alarmed if all slider LEDs don't light up on first "bootup", try adjusting the unlabeled LED brightness trimmer on the left side of the front panel first.
flts
etaoin wrote:
First is noise bleeding into the left amp. This is high frequency noise so sounds like cross talk. It goes away if you turn down noise level or lower the noise 'pitch'.


Not happening here, the noise level on both the speakers is equal (less with spring verb turned down, more with verb level all the way up) and not affected by any adjustments in the noise section. Feeding +-15V to board directly with a 3A per rail test power supply (pre & post DC-DC power parts just jumpered together), haven't tested with the intended internal PSU.

Quote:
Second is that the clock LED bleeds into the VCO pitch (and maybe more, but pitch is the most obvious one). This goes away completely if you pull out the clock LED out, so the LED is definitely the cause. At first I thought the circuit might be underpowered (I'm using the 500mA DC-DC converter), but it's only using 250mA at most and it's still there if I use a 2 x 3A PowerOne supply.


I'm getting a similar effect but here it sounds more like some kind of weird pulsewidth / shape modulation than changing pitch, so if it's pitch modulation it's a very minor one. I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing, probably?

I wonder if others than me, you and Heavy Metal Kid have the same issue. It's not super irritating / maddening but you can still hear it clearly.
flts
As requested before in the thread, some higher resolution pictures of a build:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2uw82k8igqzfzyo/YWHa9Y-aqs

Note that the power supply module will look completely different if you use the DC-DC converter as intended, and also that I suck so you shouldn't assume that if I did something certain way it would be the best or even the correct way to do it. This is more for shaming myself by showing my half-assed soldering work publicly lol



edit: Does anyone have an idea whether there is a more complete calibration doc available somewhere? The one in the pocket build book (copied from the original ARP 2600 owner's manual) is certainly quite comprehensive and covers the essential stuff, but there's some things it seems to be missing that are there on the TTSH - such as the VCO2 purity / dc offset / gain on the back panel, the internal clock initial rate (should this be some specific frequency with the slider all the way down, or just adjust to sensible range?) etc.
guillaume10
Many thanks for the pictures....
ultravox
Hey flts, here's the ARP 2600 service manual.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o6e2s8c9kd5chyj/Arp%202600%20Service%20Manua l.pdf

Cheers
flts
great, thanks!
fuzzbass
lessavyfav wrote:
Top soldering... So ugly to me. Am I the only who thinks so?

I cut a foam core board to match the large pcb, I'm stuffing resistors with the pcb up on standoffs, put the foam core over the top, flip solder and repeat. Doing all the resistor/diodes first normal style. M'I being dumb?


I bought $4.95 lead forming tool (little red plastic pyramid) from Jameco in US. Using the .4 slot to form the resistors, you get just enough friction on the leads. When you flip the PCB over, the resistors stay put. And, the leads are all pointing straight up, which makes viewing your work easier. Time of assembly and rework goes down, fit and finish goes up. Highly recommended.
fuzzbass
flts wrote:

So the 0.8A per rail Power One I've planned to install to the case might run the speakers at moderate volumes, but not necessarily at full power? I have no idea how conservatively the Power One PSUs are rated. Does anyone have an idea whether the HAA-15-0.8A will actually still give out specified voltages cleanly at (close to) 0.8A per rail current consumption or whether it'll start coughing well before that?


That is beautiful!

For PSU, I purchased a used Power-One HB12-1.7-A (12VDC 1.7A). This will operate in lieu of the wall wart. This one is about half the size of similarly rated bipolar supplies. Mine was $16.00US on ebay (the shipping was more than the part cost). These linear supplies you find on the used market have been parted out of various industrial and medical devices that have seen years or decades of continuous use. Its a good idea to replace the 2N3055 power transistors and the electrolytic capacitors before putting back into service (easy and cheap).

I have worked out wiring for Schurter parts to perform power entry, fusing and voltage selection to support worldwide operation using standard C13 interlock cables. This design works with all of the Power-One/Condor linear supplies. If anyone is interested in this, I'm happy to share it, just let me know.
roglok
fuzzbass wrote:

I have worked out wiring for Schurter parts to perform power entry, fusing and voltage selection to support worldwide operation using standard C13 interlock cables. This design works with all of the Power-One/Condor linear supplies. If anyone is interested in this, I'm happy to share it, just let me know.


yes, pls! thumbs up
flts
fuzzbass wrote:
These linear supplies you find on the used market have been parted out of various industrial and medical devices that have seen years or decades of continuous use. Its a good idea to replace the 2N3055 power transistors and the electrolytic capacitors before putting back into service (easy and cheap).


The 0.8A bipolar ones I bought were of similar cost (around $15 a piece, the shipping to EU wasn't cheap though), but the industrial surplus company selling them described them as "new, without factory packaging" and at least the visual condition matches that. This leads me to think that they might have been spares on some company's shelf and actually never plugged in to intended devices.

They are 10 years old though, I have no idea how the electrolytics like sitting unused on the shelf that long - need to test it before I install it to the TTSH.

Quote:
I have worked out wiring for Schurter parts to perform power entry, fusing and voltage selection to support worldwide operation using standard C13 interlock cables. This design works with all of the Power-One/Condor linear supplies. If anyone is interested in this, I'm happy to share it, just let me know.


That sounds good! I'm not planning to wire a voltage selector switch for mine, but I've drawn otherwise a similar setup for myself using an integrated IEC inlet + power switch + fuse setup.

Are you going to install a separate case mounted power switch for yours?

I had to ditch the front panel power switch, since the only ones I could find with that footprint are single pole, and safe mains switching in many EU countries (including Finland) really requires a dual pole switch since it's 50/50 chance which cable will be live and which neutral. I might just screw a little blank to hide the hole, or figure out a way to route space for something like a MIDI input instead of the front panel power switch...
Cablebasher
Hello all,

A quick question.

I've been looking at the various finished pcbs images and noticed that i may have gotten confused by the whole mta thing.

So here goes, the Original Bom had listed the following;

http://www.musikding.de/PCB-connector-2-pins

As these were sold out I purchased these:

http://www.banzaimusic.com/PCB-Connector-25-2G.html?mobile_mode=get_de tailed_images

Now I assumed that was the end of it, that was all I needed, but looking at the builds it seems that I need connectors (the white boxy things) at both ends not just one as I have.

Have I bought the wrong things or do I need to add the second side connector myself and that is how it is generally done?

If so, do I also need to buy separate connectors (i purchased the mouser Bom)?

If I do need to connect them myself, is that what this is for (whichever I see mentioned on this forum quite often).

http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-amp/59803-1/tool-t-handle-0-1/dp  /589494

Sorry for the silly question.
treseja
Is anybody using that original PS for ARP 2600. You can find it from that service manual. It uses the old 723 regulator and looks easy to build. Somebody say it's crappy, but I'm not so sure. Just for nostalgic reason, because I think I have one similar kind somewhere in my closet, that I made for my Axxe project 35 years ago. This one looks more powerfull.
flts
Cablebasher wrote:
Now I assumed that was the end of it, that was all I needed, but looking at the builds it seems that I need connectors (the white boxy things) at both ends not just one as I have.


Short answer: you only need connectors on one side. Just solder the cable ends on the other side directly to PCB, you'll be fine.

Long answer:

If you look at what zthee did in his build (see official build instructions), he just soldered one end of the cable to the PCB holes on the power distribution side, and then used a connector assembly on the other end. This way you can't remove the whole cable from the PCB (why you would really need to, I don't know) but you can still plug and unplug power from individual modules which is pretty essential for testing and troubleshooting.

Just check that the orientation of the cables & connectors is consistent so certain color is always certain power line, so you won't be able to accidentally plug reverse voltages anywhere.

If I'm right I used those Banzai cables myself (I had a bag lying around that looks very similar to what they sell, it's either from Musikding or Banzai) and added a MTA100 connector to the other end due to having already soldered PCB connectors on both ends before thinking about it. In any case, the length of the cables I have is enough to cover all the modules on the board EXCEPT for the one VCO that is farthest from the center. For that I needed to cut & make a longer cable myself.
fuzzbass
roglok wrote:
fuzzbass wrote:

I have worked out wiring for Schurter parts to perform power entry, fusing and voltage selection to support worldwide operation using standard C13 interlock cables. This design works with all of the Power-One/Condor linear supplies. If anyone is interested in this, I'm happy to share it, just let me know.


yes, pls! thumbs up




Notes:
! This is mains voltage. If you don't know how to avoid killing yourself, buy the wall wart power supply.

1. I use 16GA stranded cable, and crimp-on disconnects. I try to avoid soldering mains power connections whenever possible.
2. The fuse drawer accepts 20mm fuses. Select the appropriate rating based on your mains voltage, the PSU you have and your project. For the TTSH, my selected 12VDC unipolar supply, and US power, the correct fuse is 1A, and quantity of 2 are required.
3. Use heat shrink to insulate all exposed connectors.
4. Try to use different colors of mains cable, to avoid mixups. I have noted colors I have on hand in the drawing.
5. The top of the drawing is the primary taps on the transformer. The part below that is the rear view of the Schurter power entry module. To the right is the logic of the voltage selector that you insert into the fuse drawer.
6. I have a bunch of Power-One/Condor supplies and all of them have the same primary taps on the transformer and configuration table.
7. I listed two versions of the power entry module. KE10.6100.151 is appropriate for the TTSH because it does not have an integrated switch. Here we would bring pin 3 out to the mains switch on the panel, and return from there to pin 5 and tie from there to pin 4.
8. Every digit in the part numbers that looks like an "O" is a zero. I am not very consistent with my slashing.
9. For 2xxV mains, you have "line" and "line", not "line" and "neutral". With 2xxV mains, I don't think it matters which one you bring out to the switch. Europeans feel free to correct me if I'm wrong! With 1xxV mains, the hot "line" should always go to the interruptor/switch. The "drain" should never be obstructed.
10. Create a star ground inside your case, and create a strong mechanical connection (crips/bonding posts, not solder) from there to the aluminum plate/heat sink of the PSU.
11. Keep in mind that you have exposed DC voltage on the the cases of power transistors such as 2N3055. Keep these out of reach to other wires, or cover them.
12. Apologies for the sloppy drawing.
fuzzbass
Addendum:
a. To change mains voltage, pull out fuse drawer and rotate voltage selector module as appropriate. Fuse ratings will change as well, generally going from 200 to 100VAC, you double the fuse rating, and vice versa. Employ the correct IEC C13 interlock cable for your region.
b. The power entry modules shown are screw down types appropriate for cabinet construction. Schurter makes snap in units better suited for panel mounting. example: KE10.2100.105 (non-switched).
fuzzbass
flts wrote:

I had to ditch the front panel power switch, since the only ones I could find with that footprint are single pole, and safe mains switching in many EU countries (including Finland) really requires a dual pole switch since it's 50/50 chance which cable will be live and which neutral. I might just screw a little blank to hide the hole, or figure out a way to route space for something like a MIDI input instead of the front panel power switch...


See my other post. Schurter KG10.6101.151 incorporates a switch that interrupts both lines. Based on your observations, this might be good choice for you. Power-One and Schurter parts are made for worldwide use. You will probably find the Schurter parts more expensive than your supply, but worth it, IMO.
flts
fuzzbass wrote:
9. For 2xxV mains, you have "line" and "line", not "line" and "neutral". With 2xxV mains, I don't think it matters which one you bring out to the switch. Europeans feel free to correct me if I'm wrong! With 1xxV mains, the hot "line" should always go to the interruptor/switch. The "drain" should never be obstructed.


Yeah... So at least in Finland Europe (and I think in many other EU countries as well), when wiring a mains PSU you have to assume that either of the non-earth pins can be "live". Since you can plug normal mains connectors either way, you have no control over which power pin is going to be live. This also means that

1) you should ideally have both lines/pins behind a fuse because either one may need breaking
2) you should use a dual pole switch (that breaks contact on both non-earth pins when off) for electrical safety.

I feel ashamed to say I still don't know enough about local safety rules to say much more, but I suppose the immediate implication of just switching off one of the two lines (which has a 50/50 chance of being "live" or "neutral) would be that there's an actual chance of bad wiring sneakily resulting to live voltage on front panel / case of the device even when the power appears to be turned off. This would be a bad thing even with a proper EU power switch - naturally - but it's even more scary if you could get electrocuted (or at very least trigger the trip switch) by touching a device you think is off.

So I just play it safe and use a double pole power switch every time I work with mains voltages inside the device. Which kind of rules out easy front panel switch in this case, unless you find a double pole mains voltage rated switches as small as the hole in the panel, or unless you make the hole larger yourself.

As you said, this is quite different in USA and other countries where you can only plug in a device "one way". Of course, even then the wiring could be messed up and the leads accidentally reversed, but at least that's not the normal every day situation like here.
flts
fuzzbass wrote:
See my other post. Schurter KG10.6101.151 incorporates a switch that interrupts both lines. Based on your observations, this might be good choice for you. Power-One and Schurter parts are made for worldwide use. You will probably find the Schurter parts more expensive than your supply, but worth it, IMO.


True, I've used Schurter AC connectors before (still have one around somewhere) and they feel really well made, good to know they provide those integrated ones as well.

Right now I have one Bulgin and one QLT integrated AC connector + dual fuse + power switch thing that look similar to that model, was thinking of using either of those. They seem decent as well as quality goes.

My point was just that you can't fit either of them to the front panel, so I have to install the switch/inlet/fuse assembly to the case. The place where you're supposed to install the on/off switch on the TTSH front panel is not going to be used in my build... Just don't have a clear idea yet what to put there instead.
andybee
I installed TRACO TMP 300215C
110-240VAC 50 or 60 Hz, +-15V/1000mA
In germany (or europe) you can find it here:
http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/511982/
works good s far smile

99.9% is finished, just one or two capps missing,
and one 2N5470.....
nice project! tip for the next one?

Rockin' Banana!
fuzzbass
I did some more reading about residential mains voltage distribution around the world, and I found one flaw in my thinking, although it does not change anything in the solution I presented above.

In the US, standard appliance mains connections consist of a single phase 120VAC line and a neutral return line. There are also 240VAC appliance circuits provided for high power devices such as cooking, laundry and heating/AC systems. Here, those circuits are achieved by way of two phase connections + neutral. For some reason I was assuming that in Europe, all appliance circuits were like this. In fact, appliance circuits in Europe are single phase, with higher voltage on the line. So it IS significant which one is line as opposed to neutral. In theory you want the shutoff on the line voltage, and the path to remain connected to neutral so long as the device is plugged in. If appliance receptacles are not keyed to positively control which conductor presents line voltage to the device, the fusing and shutoff in the device need to be in place on both paths.

The Schurter parts I listed in my previous post support this. They have fuses on both paths, and where switches are employed, they switch both paths.
ultravox
fuzzbass wrote:

Notes:
! This is mains voltage. If you don't know how to avoid killing yourself, buy the wall wart power supply.


I love your disclaimer! thumbs up
You could also mention that you can burn your house down too. Dead Banana
flts
fuzzbass wrote:
In fact, appliance circuits in Europe are single phase, with higher voltage on the line. So it IS significant which one is line as opposed to neutral. In theory you want the shutoff on the line voltage, and the path to remain connected to neutral so long as the device is plugged in. If appliance receptacles are not keyed to positively control which conductor presents line voltage to the device, the fusing and shutoff in the device need to be in place on both paths.

The Schurter parts I listed in my previous post support this. They have fuses on both paths, and where switches are employed, they switch both paths.


Exactly, thanks for confirming my worries / safety precautions! Guinness ftw!
guillaume10
hello everybody,

2 questions :

there is two kind of 100 nano condensator, 26 of K104M15X7RF53H5 and 4 of FK26C0G1H107J and I would like to know where the 4 FK26C0G1H107J goes ?
(there no explanations on built informations)

and here is a "stupid" question :
how to know the good way to put the two transistor 512-BD2356STU and 512-BD237STU ? (on the one I have, it seems that there is nothing write to notice the E,B,C)

thanks for your help
Heavy Metal Kid
guillaume10 wrote:
hello everybody,

2 questions :

there is two kind of 100 nano condensator, 26 of K104M15X7RF53H5 and 4 of FK26C0G1H107J and I would like to know where the 4 FK26C0G1H107J goes ?
(there no explanations on built informations)

and here is a "stupid" question :
how to know the good way to put the two transistor 512-BD2356STU and 512-BD237STU ? (on the one I have, it seems that there is nothing write to notice the E,B,C)

thanks for your help


It's probably easier for people to answer if you use the actual names of the parts, rather than the Mouser numbers.

I'm guessing the transistors you mention are the LED driver transistors? When you lay them down on the PCB the printed text on them should match the silk screen print on the PCB (except the right one is rotated 180 degrees on the print). That's the orientation.
guillaume10
sorry, you are right, here is the informations regarding capacitors :

26 of K104M15X7RF53H5 is Multilayer Ceramic Capacitors MLCC - Leaded 0.1uF 50volts 20% X7R 5mm LS

4 of FK26C0G1H107J is Multilayer Ceramic Capacitors MLCC - Leaded 0.1uF 50volts C0G +/-5%

and thanks for the info regarding led drivers transistors.
Heavy Metal Kid
To specify - the text on the transistors go face up and the legs point towards the PCB holes.
LED-man
yesterday i tried the reverb with zthees preferred belton reverbtank.
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Belton-RBL2AB3C1B.html

but it sounds metallic - any other customer experience with this ?

background info:
the reverbtank is mounted in a big woodcase, internal speakers are disabled.
shielded cable is used.
sduck
Protip: Solder in your 220uF caps after soldering in your faders. Or attaching your heat sinks. Having both of these in place makes it nearly impossible to get to the fader solder points.

(getting my desoldering stuff heated up as I type this...)
flts
^- I had to remove the heat sinks for some later soldering. Lucky I decided to mount the sinks only by screwing tight to the TDA2030s in the end, no soldering.
LED-man
flts wrote:
^- I had to remove the heat sinks for some later soldering. Lucky I decided to mount the sinks only by screwing tight to the TDA2030s in the end, no soldering.


+1
sduck
flts wrote:
^- I had to remove the heat sinks for some later soldering. Lucky I decided to mount the sinks only by screwing tight to the TDA2030s.


My heat sinks are JB Welded in - so removing the big caps is a LOT easier!
Kipling
guillaume10 wrote:
hello everybody,

2 questions :

there is two kind of 100 nano condensator, 26 of K104M15X7RF53H5 and 4 of FK26C0G1H107J and I would like to know where the 4 FK26C0G1H107J goes ?
(there no explanations on built informations)

thanks for your help

I presume you mean the FK26C0G1H104J which are higher precision (5%) than the K104M15X7RF53H5 (20%) so obviously in a more critical location, perhaps for timing purposes. I've looked through the schematics and cannot see where any are marked as 5% tolerance so no idea I'm afraid. I'm just about to start building mine so would like to know too. hmmm.....
flts
I think there were just about enough 100nF X7R caps in the bag for bypass caps near the power connectors of the modules (1 for each rail so two per module, except only one per amp module). Might have had two left after I stuffed all those. After that I just used the C0G ones everywhere else.

However, I did order a bag of 100 of those blue 100n C0G ones instead of the specified amount because I wanted some to be left in store. So I have no idea how many of which I was _supposed_ to have and whether they would have been enough to stuff the board that way.

So sorry if this doesn't help much... I just started by soldering all the MTA power connectors, 10u reserve electrolytics and 100n cheapo bypass ceramic caps to modules on the board, and after that proceeded with what I had left after that.

LED-man wrote:
yesterday i tried the reverb with zthees preferred belton reverbtank.
but it sounds metallic - any other customer experience with this ?


I have the same one here, it sounds good to me and I like the long decay. Right now it sits on the table next to the TTSH panel (or on the chair next to it), but I intend to mount it on a wooden case once I get mine done.

I'll try to record some sound samples once I get the panel to a case and can move everything next to my recording setup. Maybe the reverb tank sounds the same and it's more a matter of taste.
Kipling
The only 100n cap in the build doc photos I can spot that looks different is in the Pre-Amp section next to the IC socket in photo http://www.thehumancomparator.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/DSC_0328. jpg

If there are three more, logic suggests they are for something that there's three of, such as the VCOs, but they show two 100n's each which are for the power supply rails and hence any old 100n will do.

If I spot the rest I'll update this reply.
fuzzbass
LED-man wrote:
yesterday i tried the reverb with zthees preferred belton reverbtank.
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Belton-RBL2AB3C1B.html but it sounds metallic - any other customer experience with this ?



This is an April Fools Joke, right? I mean, the spring IS metallic.
zeta
hi,
as i never ordered from mouser before and i still got a load to be send,
will this wire here http://it.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Wire/3051-RD005/?qs=%252bZ426 PJ3lGgtUqerbi14CQ==
suit my needs on the ttsh?
or is there another part# floating arround?
it's a jungle out there... help
sduck
That wire will work, but it's crazy expensive, like 3 times too much. I don't know about Italian sources, but here in the US I use http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-cable/stranded-hookup-wire-300v-ul-1007-1 569.html - the 24 awg stuff in the 100 ft spool is about 8$. Maybe someone can suggest a decent Italian/European source?
qp
sduck wrote:
That wire will work, but it's crazy expensive, like 3 times too much. I don't know about Italian sources, but here in the US I use http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-cable/stranded-hookup-wire-300v-ul-1007-1 569.html - the 24 awg stuff in the 100 ft spool is about 8$. Maybe someone can suggest a decent Italian/European source?


I just ordered a bunch of wire from all electronics. http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/825450/wire/cable/ stranded-hook-up-wire-100-roll/1.html Cheaper than anywhere else I've seen.

Maybe this for europe?: http://www.reichelt.com/Copper-Wire-insulated/2/index.html?&ACTION=2&L A=2&GROUP=D874&GROUPID=4487&START=0&OFFSET=16&SHOW=1

Oh, btw, I just put my order in at utsource and I think I recall you saying you got all the rare's there. How long was the ship time?
sduck
I seem to recall that the UTsource shipment took between a week and 2 weeks. Not too long, but not crazy fast like some stuff from Asia. And as far as I know everything works - except I ordered the wrong kind of CA3046, and I haven't tested the TDA2030 yet, although I'm not worried about those. I got the CA3046's I used from a guy on ebay from Pennsylvania who had NOS in original tubes, although I bet if you didn't mistakenly order smt versions of CA3046 the UTsource ones would be fine. Everything checked out during the in-build testing, so at least the stuff I got from them is fine.

That allectronics wire price is great! If only they had the wild color choices that bulkwire has...
jbdiver
The finishing up section of the build lists a 47µ (Electrolytic) capacitor. I can't seem to figure out where this component is supposed to go. I don't see a location for it on the topside.
sduck
It goes near the other led driver stuff, I forget which side, but it's on the side that the bulk of the components are on, not with the rest of the led driver parts.
etaoin
Kipling wrote:

I presume you mean the FK26C0G1H104J which are higher precision (5%) than the K104M15X7RF53H5 (20%) so obviously in a more critical location, perhaps for timing purposes. I've looked through the schematics and cannot see where any are marked as 5% tolerance so no idea I'm afraid. I'm just about to start building mine so would like to know too. hmmm.....


It's not the tolerance, it's the material. There are a couple of 100nF caps in the signal path. Don't use X7R there.
LED-man
etaoin wrote:
Kipling wrote:

I presume you mean the FK26C0G1H104J which are higher precision (5%) than the K104M15X7RF53H5 (20%) so obviously in a more critical location, perhaps for timing purposes. I've looked through the schematics and cannot see where any are marked as 5% tolerance so no idea I'm afraid. I'm just about to start building mine so would like to know too. hmmm.....


It's not the tolerance, it's the material. There are a couple of 100nF caps in the signal path. Don't use X7R there.


I use all the time x7r and have no issues..
Never have a microphony effect heared or measured.
etaoin
LED-man wrote:

Never have a microphony effect heared or measured.


I don't think I said anything about that.

It's just that if you did the Mouser order, and you have two types anyway, use the C0G ones in the signal path. Considering the numbers, that is probably what zhtee intended anyway.
flts
Yeah, the main issue with X7R is that due to the dielectric material used, they are noticeably more nonlinear (= distortion when on the audio path) than the more linear C0G/NP0 type ones. Aside the fact that X7R capacitors also have a worse temperature stability so you should prefer C0G where that is required.

None of these things will destroy the circuit you're building and it might not sound bad either if you accidentally use the X7Rs on the signal path - it's a synthesizer and not a hi-fi amplifier anyway and people have different tastes on how things should sound.

However, just keep in mind that what is intended here is to use the X7R caps as power supply bypass capacitors (= mainly the pairs next to the module power connectors in case of TTSH) - and the higher quality C0G ones on the signal path as etaoin said. Just looked at the official Mouser cart - there's enough of the X7R for the bypass caps and one or two left after that, whereas the amount of C0G ones is much smaller.
Kipling
etaoin wrote:
LED-man wrote:

Never have a microphony effect heared or measured.


I don't think I said anything about that.

It's just that if you did the Mouser order, and you have two types anyway, use the C0G ones in the signal path. Considering the numbers, that is probably what zhtee intended anyway.


Thanks for the tip - I'll look through the schematics and pick out the 100n that are in the signal path and use the C0G there.
flts
Kipling wrote:
Thanks for the tip - I'll look through the schematics and pick out the 100n that are in the signal path and use the C0G there.


If you ordered the Mouser BOM directly, it's probably even faster just to open up the bag of X7Rs and solder them to the PSU bypass spots first (they should be obvious to spot on the board, one per module), you'll be left with so little of them after that that you'll just have to use the C0Gs elsewhere lol
diablojoy
Quote:
Oh, btw, I just put my order in at utsource and I think I recall you saying you got all the rare's there. How long was the ship time?

ship time for me was also about 2 weeks
I got all the rare parts from them except the 3046's as i had a fairly good stockpile of them already, all the other rare parts were good including the 2030's
sealion
Nuts and Bolts question. Carr McMaster wont ship to Canada. When I am trying to source screws internationally I keep coming up with black nylon screws and standoffs. My question is this: Does it need to be brass/steel for grounding reasons or can I just use nylon screws and nylon standoffs?
Kipling
flts wrote:
Kipling wrote:
Thanks for the tip - I'll look through the schematics and pick out the 100n that are in the signal path and use the C0G there.


If you ordered the Mouser BOM directly, it's probably even faster just to open up the bag of X7Rs and solder them to the PSU bypass spots first (they should be obvious to spot on the board, one per module), you'll be left with so little of them after that that you'll just have to use the C0Gs elsewhere lol

Sounds like a plan, cheers Guinness ftw!
LED-man
I use mostly polyester in audiopath.
X7R for hf decouping in uncritical circuits.
guillaume10
ok thanks for all the informations regarding capacitors.

I will try the the X7R for power supply bypass and the C0G for signal path.

so wait and see... or wait and hear !!!!

thanks to all
flts
sealion wrote:
Nuts and Bolts question. Carr McMaster wont ship to Canada. When I am trying to source screws internationally I keep coming up with black nylon screws and standoffs. My question is this: Does it need to be brass/steel for grounding reasons or can I just use nylon screws and nylon standoffs?


edit: I was talking out of my ass, sorry - see Heavy Metal Kid's post below. There is a ground connection so you'd probably want to have conducting screws & standoffs.

FWIW I bought my standoffs from Banzai and black screws from TME (I suppose TME might have had the standoffs as well) and they're all metal ones, but if you're in Canada I think the shipping from those places would probably be prohibitively expensive since they're both in EU. Maybe you have some kind of local hardware / nuts & bolts chain that would provide?
Heavy Metal Kid
flts wrote:
The machine screws, nuts & standoffs do not seem to touch any grounding points on the PCB


The top middle standoff hole on the PCB is connected to ground and leads ground to the front panel.

The top right hole is very close to an LED power line. I mounted the standoffs on top of metal washers, and that one eventually tore through the insulation to the LED line, giving me a nasty short circuit. Be careful about that particular standoff mounting! A plastic washer might be a good idea there.
flts
^- Thanks for the correction, edited my post above.
zeta
qp wrote:
sduck wrote:
That wire will work, but it's crazy expensive, like 3 times too much. I don't know about Italian sources, but here in the US I use http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-cable/stranded-hookup-wire-300v-ul-1007-1 569.html - the 24 awg stuff in the 100 ft spool is about 8$. Maybe someone can suggest a decent Italian/European source?



Maybe this for europe?: http://www.reichelt.com/Copper-Wire-insulated/2/index.html?&ACTION=2&L A=2&GROUP=D874&GROUPID=4487&START=0&OFFSET=16&SHOW=1


hey, 1st off thanks for the help and sducks hint of overpriced wire.
about the link, qp posted, thanks as well!
but isn't the diameter less then a 22awg...should this work with the
headers?

ah..hmm now checking the BOM again and i see the musikding link on it.
sorry, but is it to be understood that 30cm wire is already incl. with the header ..seems so, anyway i asume it'll be to short.!?
and why is on the BOM writen 9x 2pins & then 7x the link to musikding
and 24x 3pins & then 13x the link to musikding?
Altitude909
zeta wrote:
qp wrote:
sduck wrote:
That wire will work, but it's crazy expensive, like 3 times too much. I don't know about Italian sources, but here in the US I use http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-cable/stranded-hookup-wire-300v-ul-1007-1 569.html - the 24 awg stuff in the 100 ft spool is about 8$. Maybe someone can suggest a decent Italian/European source?



Maybe this for europe?: http://www.reichelt.com/Copper-Wire-insulated/2/index.html?&ACTION=2&L A=2&GROUP=D874&GROUPID=4487&START=0&OFFSET=16&SHOW=1


hey, 1st off thanks for the help and sducks hint of overpriced wire.
about the link, qp posted, thanks as well!
but isn't the diameter less then a 22awg...should this work with the
headers?

ah..hmm now checking the BOM again and i see the musikding link on it.
sorry, but is it to be understood that 30cm wire is already incl. with the header ..seems so, anyway i asume it'll be to short.!?
and why is on the BOM writen 9x 2pins & then 7x the link to musikding
and 24x 3pins & then 13x the link to musikding?


Just get headers made for whatever gauge wire you are using. This isnt that complicated, the spacing is 0.100" for the header. It makes no difference what you use as long as it fits the footprint
Morbid
Finished up my TTSH today and got a strange problem.
If i power it up some led's show up some are not and some are very low.
But the faders all work.
The other strange thing is if i disconnect all moduls from the power unit my multimeter reads 15 volt on the positiv rail but after connecting all modules
(except the two amps) i just get 13 volt .
So with every module the voltage drop.
Also the Clock is heavy bleeding on all vco's and some other modules.
WTF is going on here?
It looks like a power problem.
But the DC adapter is strong enough it has 2,6A on 15 volt.
zeta
Altitude909 wrote:
Just get headers made for whatever gauge wire you are using. This isnt that complicated, the spacing is 0.100" for the header. It makes no difference what you use as long as it fits the footprint


ahh, dingdon'got it. the spacing, 0.100". sure. d'oh!
flts
Morbid wrote:
Finished up my TTSH today and got a strange problem.
If i power it up some led's show up some are not and some are very low.
But the faders all work.


I'd try adjusting the LED trimmer on the left of the panel / PCB (unlabeled on the panel but there's a hole for it) first to see whether you can get an even brightness going on. For me the VCA leds weren't lit at all until I adjusted the brightness, now everything looks like equally bright.

Quote:
The other strange thing is if i disconnect all moduls from the power unit my multimeter reads 15 volt on the positiv rail but after connecting all modules
(except the two amps) i just get 13 volt .
So with every module the voltage drop.
Also the Clock is heavy bleeding on all vco's and some other modules.
WTF is going on here?
It looks like a power problem.
But the DC adapter is strong enough it has 2,6A on 15 volt.


Which DC-DC converter and power adapter are you using?

I have the clock bleed as well, but it isn't super heavy, and it looks to actually be because of the transistor switching of the clock speed LED as described earlier in the thread.
Morbid
@flts

Thank you.
That solved the problem with the leds.
I totally missed that trimmer very frustrating .
One thing i noticed if i turn up the leds the VCOs drop in tune.
And the bleeding on the VCO's from the clock is heavy you can realy hear the modulation.

DC DC Converter is the recommended one from Artesyn.
The power adapter is this one.
Power
sduck
Sounds like you're loosing power somewhere - perhaps a solder bridge or a cold solder somewhere. I'd try powering up one module at a time, see if you can isolate where the problem is - you shouldn't get that voltage drop (I think, haven't quite gotten to testing mine fully built)
etaoin
No, it should be rock solid +/- 15V (my 0.5A DC-DC converter is 15.000V on my meter) with LEDs on max. My VCO's are also solid at any LED brightness.

I only have the clock LED bleed (which I will probably try and fix by powering that one LED from the DC input).
Morbid
@sduck
I have done this test .
But no matter what module i start with when i connect it i've got a voltage drop.
So i can't isolate the problem.
That's really frustrating. Dead Banana
fuzzbass
guillaume10 wrote:
ok thanks for all the informations regarding capacitors.

I will try the the X7R for power supply bypass and the C0G for signal path.

so wait and see... or wait and hear !!!!

thanks to all


I just used what I had on hand instead of considering temperature coefficient ratings for ceramic caps. Result: all of the 10, 20 (22 really), and 50 (47 really)pf signal caps in my build are X7R rated. I'm not finished, but all my unit testing so far is successful. I have decided to leave it as is for now. If I am displeased with how it sounds, or stability later on, I might go back in and change them. Its a lot of rework, not sure its worth it right now.
latigid on
I notice that the TDA amplifier is no longer included in the Mouser cart -- it was replaced with an LM1875T. Is somebody keeping track of the revisions?
Morbid
Morbid wrote:
@sduck
I have done this test .
But no matter what module i start with when i connect it i've got a voltage drop.
So i can't isolate the problem.
That's really frustrating. Dead Banana


Ok i'm getting closer.
Instead of ferrit beads i used 10 ohm resistors.
So before the resistores my multimeter reads straight + - 15v with all modules plugged in but after them it reads -13v and +12,55v.
What is going on here sad banana ?
roglok
Morbid wrote:
Morbid wrote:
@sduck
I have done this test .
But no matter what module i start with when i connect it i've got a voltage drop.
So i can't isolate the problem.
That's really frustrating. Dead Banana


Ok i'm getting closer.
Instead of ferrit beads i used 10 ohm resistors.
So before the resistores my multimeter reads straight + - 15v with all modules plugged in but after them it reads -13v and +12,55v.
What is going on here sad banana ?


are you sure that those resistors are OK and 10Ω? they should cause a tiny voltage drop, but not 2–2.5V...
latigid on
A pic could help?
Morbid
That comes first to my mind.
But i double checked them and they are right.
Can I just bridge them for a test?

@latigid on

A Pic of the resistors?
Kipling
Morbid wrote:
That comes first to my mind.
But i double checked them and they are right.
Can I just bridge them for a test?

@latigid on

A Pic of the resistors?


That will be your problem. A 10 ohm resistor will drop 2.5 volts for 250mA of load (V= I x R). Yes you may bridge both of them with wire. The ferrite beads are there only to reduce any high frequency noise from the power supply getting through to the audio sections.
roglok
Kipling wrote:
Morbid wrote:
That comes first to my mind.
But i double checked them and they are right.
Can I just bridge them for a test?

@latigid on

A Pic of the resistors?


That will be your problem. A 10 ohm resistor will drop 2.5 volts for 250mA of load (V= I x R). Yes you may bridge both of them with wire. The ferrite beads are there only to reduce any high frequency noise from the power supply getting through to the audio sections.


ahem. so much for "a tiny amount". i guess i should eventually come to grips with ohm's law hihi
latigid on
... loading the resistors at 0.625 W. Supposing that you used 1/4 W resistors, are they warm to the touch?
sduck
First power up tests this morning. Everything seems to be working pretty much. Not calibrated yet. Barely getting any sound from the speakers, but haven't wired up the headphone jack yet - will this make a difference? I'm guessing it will.

I'm getting that dip in pitch from the clock LED - what is/are the fix(es) for this?
mush
The headphones-jack is switching, so it will make a HUUUGE difference.

I haven't noticed any dip in pitch since I attached the CV-in jack by the multiple. I haven't played with it without any jack connected there since I installed it either...
flts
Kipling wrote:
Yes you may bridge both of them with wire. The ferrite beads are there only to reduce any high frequency noise from the power supply getting through to the audio sections.


As wise man once said, "they don't do much" hihi

sduck wrote:
Barely getting any sound from the speakers, but haven't wired up the headphone jack yet - will this make a difference? I'm guessing it will.


Exactly. The headphone jack also acts as a normally closed switch for the speakers, breaking the contact and muting the speakers when a plug is inserted. For testing you can of course jumper the headphone jack points on both speaker amps.

Quote:
I'm getting that dip in pitch from the clock LED - what is/are the fix(es) for this?


I guess you mean the square wave modulation of the VCO at the speed of the clock? Removing the clock LED driver (transistor) altogether and just wiring the power line directly to that LED seems to be one obvious / tested option, but then you lose the blink. I can't remember any other actual solutions posted yet. Maybe using some kind of separate power / ground line would fix the issue.
Heavy Metal Kid
I removed the clock LED transistor and bridged the two upper holes on it. That pretty much eliminated the clock synched pitch drop on the oscillators. There is still a little bit of leakage from the clock, but it is unnoticeable when I turn the clock all the way up. You might have to trim the clock speed so that the bleed just about goes away at the top slider position.

Another thing - I think the CV line for the oscillators is just floating the way it is specified in the "finishing up" PDF. I reconnected the "KBD CV OUTPUT" jack in the lower left corner so that it is normalled to ground when it is disconnected, and that removed another problem I had experienced - that the oscillators affected eachother's pitch. Ie. adjusting the pitch on VCO2 would drop or raise the pitch on VCO1, etc. The oscillators were also affected by the LED trimmer, if I remember correctly.

Edit: I see the PDF is updated with the KBD CV normalled to ground instruction now.

Also, I started a thread for posting TTSH sounds and videos. Uploaded a video just now.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=109216
sduck
Ok, good. Yes, jumpering those headphone connections gets the speakers working. Yay!

Still not sure about how to deal with the clock problem. Yes, cranking the speed up makes it go away. And perhaps just dialing the LEDs off when in a studio type situation is a possible solution - haven't tried that yet to see if it makes enough of a difference to bother with. I'm showing this one to Guidotoons (the guy who started this whole thing off - see first post in the huge thread), who would be using it in a studio situation - I'll see if he has a preference.
Widy75
Morbid wrote:
@flts

Thank you.
One thing i noticed if i turn up the leds the VCOs drop in tune.

could it be that u got a general volatage drop ?
flts
Widy75 wrote:
Morbid wrote:
@flts

Thank you.
One thing i noticed if i turn up the leds the VCOs drop in tune.

could it be that u got a general volatage drop ?


Yeah, I suppose that is exactly what is happening and it was diagnosed on this page or last page... Since the ferrite beads were replaced with resistors, he'll have the bigger voltage drop the more current the circuit draws. Hence when the LED brightness goes up, more current is drawn and the voltage goes down. Bridging the resistors should solve this issue.
diablojoy
hmm i also used 10 ohm resistors instead of ferrite beads -and have no issue. I also do not hear any clock bleed on my build
only thing different from standard build is i changed all the LED resistor values by a factor of 10 for the pink LED's i used which may explain the difference
Morbid
Kipling wrote:
Morbid wrote:
That comes first to my mind.
But i double checked them and they are right.
Can I just bridge them for a test?

@latigid on

A Pic of the resistors?


That will be your problem. A 10 ohm resistor will drop 2.5 volts for 250mA of load (V= I x R). Yes you may bridge both of them with wire. The ferrite beads are there only to reduce any high frequency noise from the power supply getting through to the audio sections.


And that was the problem.
With 2 jumpers soldered i get nice + - 15v.
Thank you guys for you help. nanners
Do you think it's really necessary to use ferrite beads?
What is the worst thing that could happened if i dont use them?
Except the high frequency noise which i dont notice at the moment.
roglok
Morbid wrote:

Do you think it's really necessary to use ferrite beads?
What is the worst thing that could happened if i dont use them?
Except the high frequency noise which i dont notice at the moment.


daverj dropping the knowledge:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=667988#667988
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=668562#668562
M-Circus
Bollocks... Managed to order the wrong type of wire for connecting to the power supply. Apparently 18 AWG doesn't really say much about the wire's outer dimensions. A bit quick with placing my previous order, so received something with an incredibly thick rubber housing. Hello from amateur night...

Anyway, before I place yet another order, could someone please glance at these items and check that I'm not making an error once more? The shipping charges are killing me...

These things should work with this, right?
fuzzbass
M-Circus wrote:
Bollocks... Managed to order the wrong type of wire for connecting to the power supply. Apparently 18 AWG doesn't really say much about the wire's outer dimensions. A bit quick with placing my previous order, so received something with an incredibly thick rubber housing. Hello from amateur night...

Anyway, before I place yet another order, could someone please glance at these items and check that I'm not making an error once more? The shipping charges are killing me...

These things should work with this, right?




I can tell you that the following MTA-156 (~4mm) parts work for the 12VDC entrance to the main board. You only need 1 header, one housing and two crimp on contacts (you might buy more if you are a crappy crimper like me). All the other headers and disconnects in the project are MTA100 type.

Mouser part numbers:
5716404452 header 2 pin w/lock
57106402502 housing 2 gang w/lock
571-3-770522-1 crimp contacts (suitable for 18awg stranded wire).

I am using 16AWG wire and the diameter with insulation is ~3mm. The strain reliefs on the crimp contacts above fit well around this insulation. If the wire you end up with is between 2-3mm diameter, you should be fine with these contacts.

Hope this helps.
fuzzbass
Not happy with fit of the power amp heat sinks to the TDA2030? Try these. They are identical, except the device mounting hole is about 3mm lower.

Mouser part 532-529802B25G
sduck
Can someone tell me if this is right or not - I hooked up my reverb tank tonight, it works fine, but only on the right channel. Through the speakers, or the mixer out. The far right slider pushes up the reverb level, but the one next to it only increases the dry volume - I don't know these things at all - is this right or wrong?
Heavy Metal Kid
diablojoy wrote:
hmm i also used 10 ohm resistors instead of ferrite beads -and have no issue. I also do not hear any clock bleed on my build
only thing different from standard build is i changed all the LED resistor values by a factor of 10 for the pink LED's i used which may explain the difference


It's interesting that you don't hear any clock bleed. Do you have a switching or a linear PSU?
Heavy Metal Kid
sduck wrote:
Can someone tell me if this is right or not - I hooked up my reverb tank tonight, it works fine, but only on the right channel. Through the speakers, or the mixer out. The far right slider pushes up the reverb level, but the one next to it only increases the dry volume - I don't know these things at all - is this right or wrong?


Left slider brings in the wet reverb in the left channel, right slider in the right channel. Sounds like something's wrong with yours, yeah.
diablojoy
Quote:
Can someone tell me if this is right or not - I hooked up my reverb tank tonight, it works fine, but only on the right channel. Through the speakers, or the mixer out. The far right slider pushes up the reverb level, but the one next to it only increases the dry volume - I don't know these things at all - is this right or wrong?

hey sduck hmm wrong it seems i get an increase of wet signal on both
sliders left slider affects wet level on left chanel , right slider affects wet level on right channel, guess you have some checking to do.

Quote:
It's interesting that you don't hear any clock bleed. Do you have a switching or a linear PSU?

switcher 24v / 5A DC feeding the 500mA DC/DC onboard converter.
but I'am deafer then most apparently i asked the wife and she can hear it , I had to stick my head right next to a speaker with it on flat out and no other sounds going, it was there alright, just old ears
So i guess i spoke a little too soon.
hmm i like the blinking light, will try some things out.
twang
Hi all, I'm new here.

I have been reading this thread for a while, finding answers to most of my questions concerning the build.

However, now I ran into an issue that I haven't found an answer to yet.

I finished stuffing the pcb's and everything appears to be in working order .... except for the speaker amps.

At max volume I can just about hear the audio.

Anybody else ran into this issue?
flts
twang wrote:
I finished stuffing the pcb's and everything appears to be in working order .... except for the speaker amps.
At max volume I can just about hear the audio.
Anybody else ran into this issue?


The obvious question: did you wire the headphone output jack or jumper the headphone output pin from both amps for testing? The signal goes from the speaker amp to normally closed switch in the output jack. If no cable is plugged in, the signal comes back again. If the output jack isn't wired correctly or jumpered / if a jack is plugged in, the signal will not go through to the speaker at all.

diablojoy wrote:
but I'am deafer then most apparently i asked the wife and she can hear it , I had to stick my head right next to a speaker with it on flat out and no other sounds going, it was there alright, just old ears
So i guess i spoke a little too soon.
hmm i like the blinking light, will try some things out.


For me, I haven't heard any (at least any noticeable) bleed with everything turned off, I just hear the clock frequency modulating the VCOs. Route one VCO to output unfiltered, turn everythinh else down, and see if you hear a slight pitch / waveshape modulation in the VCO that changes when you adjust the clock frequency. It's pretty obvious here, even without speakers crazy loud.
twang
flts wrote:
twang wrote:
I finished stuffing the pcb's and everything appears to be in working order .... except for the speaker amps.
At max volume I can just about hear the audio.
Anybody else ran into this issue?


The obvious question: did you wire the headphone output jack or jumper the headphone output pin from both amps for testing? The signal goes from the speaker amp to normally closed switch in the output jack. If no cable is plugged in, the signal comes back again. If the output jack isn't wired correctly or jumpered / if a jack is plugged in, the signal will not go through to the speaker at all.


Owwww, I overlooked that one!

Thanks, that fixed it!
M-Circus
fuzzbass wrote:

I can tell you that the following MTA-156 (~4mm) parts work for the 12VDC entrance to the main board. You only need 1 header, one housing and two crimp on contacts (you might buy more if you are a crappy crimper like me). All the other headers and disconnects in the project are MTA100 type.

Mouser part numbers:
5716404452 header 2 pin w/lock
57106402502 housing 2 gang w/lock
571-3-770522-1 crimp contacts (suitable for 18awg stranded wire).

I am using 16AWG wire and the diameter with insulation is ~3mm. The strain reliefs on the crimp contacts above fit well around this insulation. If the wire you end up with is between 2-3mm diameter, you should be fine with these contacts.

Hope this helps.


Thanks for your thoughts. That second part number appears to be wrong though. No hits on Mouser.

If I were to use crimps, I would need a crimp tool right? Can't I just squeeze the wire itself down in this with one of those MTA-156 T-shaped tools?
fuzzbass
M-Circus wrote:
fuzzbass wrote:

I can tell you that the following MTA-156 (~4mm) parts work for the 12VDC entrance to the main board. You only need 1 header, one housing and two crimp on contacts (you might buy more if you are a crappy crimper like me). All the other headers and disconnects in the project are MTA100 type.

Mouser part numbers:
5716404452 header 2 pin w/lock
57106402502 housing 2 gang w/lock
571-3-770522-1 crimp contacts (suitable for 18awg stranded wire).

I am using 16AWG wire and the diameter with insulation is ~3mm. The strain reliefs on the crimp contacts above fit well around this insulation. If the wire you end up with is between 2-3mm diameter, you should be fine with these contacts.

Hope this helps.


Thanks for your thoughts. That second part number appears to be wrong though. No hits on Mouser.

If I were to use crimps, I would need a crimp tool right? Can't I just squeeze the wire itself down in this with one of those MTA-156 T-shaped tools?


Apologies, here is the corrected part number 571-6402502.

There may be a crimp tool for these, but if you are only crimping a tiny number, its not worth it and you should get good results with narrow pointed pliers and a little finesse. Just a buy few extra contacts. When you crimp down onto the exposed wire, try to bring one side of the channel down first, and fold the other side of the channel over that. Then give it a good squeeze. I have Excelite NN54G pliers, which have a needle nose and blunted tip. A fine instrument, these; works well for all my crimping.
fuzzbass
Oh wait, to your second question...

These contacts have two crimps. Strip insulation to expose 4mm of bare wire. The first crimp is brought down onto the wire insulation, and provides strain relief. The second is brought down onto the exposed wire. Then, you simply push the contacts into the housing by hand. There are little barbs on the contacts that lock them into the housing once inserted.
satindas
Just got to testing VCO which seems to be doing as it should except the saw is curved . Is this due to the low frequency? ( I reckon approx 50Hz). I've tried all three sub modules and they're all exactly the same. Any suggestions?
fuzzbass
For those who have not been down this road before, when you buy parts to put disconnects onto headers (this goes for both MTA-156 and MTA-100) you have a choice with the housings. You may buy housings loaded with contacts, or unloaded housings, and purchase the contacts separately. With loaded housings, you are then expected to employ an expensive termination tool to insert wire. TE's MTA-156 tool at Mouser is something like $85US! This is the fasted method of hand assembly. However, if your production runs are small, you can get by without the insertion tool. Buy unloaded housings and crimp contacts. The contacts can be installed to the wire using common tools on hand (I use needle nose pliers). Then you insert the contacts into the housings by hand. This is how I built the TTSH power distribution. [img][/img]
fuzzbass
Are there current measurements or specs published for each module somewhere? Or, has anyone who is completed and satisfied with their build done this? Sure would be helpful.

I just for the first time powered up all of the modules except:
a. the audio power amps;
b. slider leds (most sliders not installed yet)

... and I measured somewhere north of 400ma. Seems kinda high to me. Oscillator 2 a bit of a hog, more than 100mA. The onrush is overwhelming my little bench supply, that tops out at 600mA. If I connect all the modules and throw the switch, the current limiting features in my bench supply kick in. If I add modules one at a time, I get them all running.

Anyway, is 400mA in the ballpark for just the synth circuits and not the amps or leds?

-Thanks,
flts
satindas wrote:
Just got to testing VCO which seems to be doing as it should except the saw is curved . Is this due to the low frequency? ( I reckon approx 50Hz). I've tried all three sub modules and they're all exactly the same. Any suggestions?


There are two things I can immediately think of, I'm not sure if either applies to you:

1) If you haven't jumpered the KBD CV and GND as in the official build instructions VCO1, the saw waves may/will look weird (in what way, I don't know, I inserted a jumper before testing).

2) If you happen to have your scope channel set to AC coupled mode, square and saw waves will look curved / "drooping" due to the DC blocking filter in path if the frequency of the wave is low enough. Switching the scope DC coupled mode removes this issue and this won't happen with higher frequency waves.

fuzzbass wrote:
Are there current measurements or specs published for each module somewhere? Or, has anyone who is completed and satisfied with their build done this? Sure would be helpful.
...
Anyway, is 400mA in the ballpark for just the synth circuits and not the amps or leds?


Didn't write down everything module by module but if that's both rails combined (ie. unipolar power supply before DC-DC converter) then that doesn't sound completely crazy to me at least.

As far as I can remember, all the individual modules (excluding all LEDs and the amplifier circuits obviously) were drawing average around 10-20mA _per rail_ using a bipolar test power supply. Some less (so little that the current draw was shown as 0.00A on both rails), some more.

I didn't write down measurements for any of the modules, only snapped pictures of testing most of them, so I don't have reliable notes / memory for this. I also don't seem to have a picture of VCO 2 testing, but the less complex VCO 1 and 3 both seem to use about 40-50mA (both rails combined).

On the other hand, I haven't tried running the complete board with LEDs and speakers off either, but with all LEDs on quite bright and speakers running at really moderate volume, I got around 750mA total current draw for both rails combined.
fuzzbass
satindas wrote:
Just got to testing VCO which seems to be doing as it should except the saw is curved . Is this due to the low frequency? ( I reckon approx 50Hz). I've tried all three sub modules and they're all exactly the same. Any suggestions?


I saw the same at first, and turned out to be the capacitance of my probes. If its more pronounced at lower frequencies, that could indicate a measurement problem. If you have switchable probes and your are running them at 1x mode, try switching to 10x mode and adjusting down your Volts/Div accordingly.
sduck
fuzzbass wrote:
TE's MTA-156 tool at Mouser is something like $85US! This is the fasted method of hand assembly.


Generally good advice, except about that price - the T handle tool from mouser is:

for .100 - 571-598031 - US$ 30.16
for .156 - 571-598041 - US$ 39.15

Good tools to have!
sduck
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
sduck wrote:
Can someone tell me if this is right or not - I hooked up my reverb tank tonight, it works fine, but only on the right channel. Through the speakers, or the mixer out. The far right slider pushes up the reverb level, but the one next to it only increases the dry volume - I don't know these things at all - is this right or wrong?


Left slider brings in the wet reverb in the left channel, right slider in the right channel. Sounds like something's wrong with yours, yeah.


It was a relatively easy fix - find the missing solders, and solder them. I had missed 2 solders - both in the mixer section (I caught one or two in the other sections before powering up). Protip: Don't miss any solder points! Damn, there's a lot of soldering to do, especially at the end - getting all those fader and jack solders takes forever.

I also disabled the clock LED - and it makes a big difference to the sound. really cleans things up. I'm still getting a small pitch shift, both from the clock (though not nearly as much as before), and from the VCO's affecting each other - if one is in LFO mode it'll slightly change the pitch of the other 2. Not a big problem. Does anyone know if something like this happens in the originals?
sduck
Calibration - an edited version of the calibration instructions for this unit would be a Good Thing©! Most of it works just fine as is, although the exponential gain setting in the VCA didn't work as described in the manual, and the RM gain setting couldn't be set for an octave, although I got mine to 2 octaves. I may have been doing something wrong - that has been known to occur during this build. Also, the 4 trimmers on the back of VCO 2 aren't covered in the service manual, although there's a brief mention of them in the service notes.

Anyway, this one I just finished is now fully functional and calibrated - yay!
sealion
Is this new 18 AWG alpha ecowire the way to go?
Mouser: 602-6715-100-01

Also what are people buying to get from the wall if they are using the pricier DC-Dc converter?
sduck
Way back on page 60 of this thread I posted the mouser numbers for the wall to jack power wart I bought - it outputs 15v DC and has more than enough juice for this thing.
sealion
thanks, the thread is getting huge alright. I'm building a TTSH extra order with the t-tools etc.

Solved my Carr McMaster issue by buying from China. The irony is Carr ships to Canada, but just to auto plants and aircraft builders. They don't think the customs paper work is worth the bother. China does free shipping and small batches (25s). I searched with a "-nylon" in my search to keep out the plastic parts.
qp
Not sure if this has been posted already, but I found a very in depth overview of every module.
http://www.cyborgstudio.com/synthmp3s/arp/2600/manual/arp2600fundament alsofmusictechnology.pdf
Heavy Metal Kid
qp wrote:
Not sure if this has been posted already, but I found a very in depth overview of every module.
http://www.cyborgstudio.com/synthmp3s/arp/2600/manual/arp2600fundament alsofmusictechnology.pdf


Excellent, will read tomorrow!
M-Circus
Every time I believe I have it all sorted, I discover another part I need... very frustrating

Realized last night that my power distribution cables only have connectors in one end. As I've already mounted and soldered the pin headers on the PSU, is there any disadvantage to simply solder the wires directly to the PCB on the various modules? Besides the clutter of not being able to remove them during assembly that is.

Presumably this will go for all other cables as well, as the 2 pin ones are of the same sort.
flts
M-Circus wrote:
Realized last night that my power distribution cables only have connectors in one end. As I've already mounted and soldered the pin headers on the PSU, is there any disadvantage to simply solder the wires directly to the PCB on the various modules? Besides the clutter of not being able to remove them during assembly that is.


No, there's no problem in that, just do it. Just remember to check that the cable is long enough to reach the power distribution point before you solder it, some of the premade cables I had around weren't so I had to build my own.

If you think about it in another way, that method probably actually adds to the reliability of the build a tiny bit, since you have sturdy directly soldered connections on one end, not a connector that may come loose for various reasons. And you still keep the main benefit in actually using connectors at all - the ability to power up and test one or two modules at a time.
M-Circus
Cool! I'll just do it that way then. And yeah: I'll make sure to check the length. hihi Had already thought about that one. ;-) Since the power distribution is dead center on the board, all the power cables appear to be long enough. I'm less certain about the cables with the 2-pin connectors, as I haven't really looked into where those are going yet. I suspect there might be an issue with.

I'll be back for cable building advice if (most likely "when") there's a problem there.
M-Circus
Next up: figuring out how this bloody oscilloscope works. Bought before xmas, unpacked today. hihi
effegee
Edit
latigid on
Would anybody be able to quickly measure the number of required cable lengths (2 or 3 wire)? I'd like to avoid waste if possible with 20/30/50 cm lengths. Thanks!
StillNotWorking
If I remember correctly there where some issue tuning in the amp sections. In that regard I'm wondering how well they respond to different voltage supply?
In the build document it seems we have a very broad range to choose from 12-24V 1500mA. As far as I can see the amp modules are feed direly from this power source.
StillNotWorking
I don't seem to find reference to this jumper at the power distribution section.
Anyone know when to use it?
Heavy Metal Kid
I think it connects two different ground planes, that later will be connected via jack normalling.
sduck
I removed it after soldering the faders, before the first fully assembled power up. I never actually checked what it does, but it'd just be a matter of poking around with a DMM for a bit to find out.

Ok, two hard questions. Or maybe not so hard. Guido wants another CV in jack. As the keyboard in jack is normalled to ground, it's not as simple as just adding another jack - or is there an easy way to do this that I'm not thinking of? I'd like it so that you could use either one, with nothing plugged into the other one.

Also, are Phil Cirrocos mods detailed anywhere? Adding sync and longer envelopes has been suggested as something that would be Very Nice to Have.
ultravox
sduck wrote:

Guido wants another CV in jack. As the keyboard in jack is normalled to ground, it's not as simple as just adding another jack - or is there an easy way to do this that I'm not thinking of? I'd like it so that you could use either one, with nothing plugged into the other one.


Can you use two non-normalled jacks for CV? Then install a switch to ground out for normalled operation?
roglok
ultravox wrote:
sduck wrote:

Guido wants another CV in jack. As the keyboard in jack is normalled to ground, it's not as simple as just adding another jack - or is there an easy way to do this that I'm not thinking of? I'd like it so that you could use either one, with nothing plugged into the other one.


Can you use two non-normalled jacks for CV? Then install a switch to ground out for normalled operation?


i don't quite see the problem. if you are using only one CV input, use the stock, normalled one, which will break the normalling. if you need a second CV input, just use the other, new input. the only problem i can imagine is when trying to use the new input without anything plugged into the stock one. you could also use a dummy plug in that case. or am i completely missing the point?
Heavy Metal Kid
What about the three KBD CV inputs on the VCOs, one for each? Still not enough?
latigid on
Use the multiple? seriously, i just don't get it

Or does he need everything pitch-accurate?
sduck
The idea is an outboard (side of case) type of input area, along with the already provided for outboard gate and trigger inputs. I'd prefer this additional cv input to not be dependent on the panel one - that one could either of them, or both, without having rules about which gets used first or whatever - does this make sense? There's probably an easy way to do this, maybe buffering with an opamp or something.
ultravox
I'm doing a design similar to the Moog Little Phatty's side panel, but instead of CV/Gate inputs it'll be outputs from MIDImplant. So my panel will have a power in receptacle, MIDI in, CV1/Gate1 out, CV2/Gate2 out.

MOOG LITTLE PHATTY


I plan to have CV1/Gate1 of MIDImplant normalled inside the TTSH so it won't need patch cords when connected to a MIDI keyboard. CV1/Gate1 on the side panel will just be repeaters. I still have to sketch it out but I hope to have it done along with my case by the end of next week.

How I want my case to look (pic found on internet):
jbdiver
My cherry wood case will look just like that. I just visited the woodworking shop this morning to do a fitting of the front panel before the wood was glued and finished. The trickiest part will be mounting the panel to the wood case with screws. The panel wasn't designed with a wood case in mind. We will probably end up gluing 3mm standoffs in the corners using a homemade epoxy/wood dust paste. The metal standoffs will provide something for the panel screws to grip.
fuzzbass
TTSH #10157 woke up today.
tojpeters
My audio amp legs barely reached the board when bolted to the heat sinks. I used a small file and slotted the hole downwards a little bit. I also used epoxy on the solder posts of the heat sinks since there are no solder pads to secure them to.
flts


My case is pretty much finished, just need to find an ideal spot for the linear PSU in the back panel (might take some trying to minimize hum), test that the whole thing still works and add a faux leather handle to make it easier to carry around. Need to post better pictures after everything is up and running.

We found just about enough 50+ year old somewhat flamed / wriggly birch from my father's workshop's storage and used that for the front, side, top and bottom panels. The back panel is Finnish cherry and looks quite cool as well. I applied a layer of antique wax & polished some time after taking that picture and the figures look a lot more "alive" / 3d after that. I was originally going to either take some darker exotic wood or use some light wood such as birch and stain it, but the flame pattern was just too cool to skip (OR to stain).

The model of the case is pretty close to that previous picture as well, but I decided it'd be nice to get the panel to a depth where none of the panel components would be stressed/broken if the whole case was tilted towards the floor (due to accident or for repair). Kind of like how the original 2600 case seems to be designed. It's still comfortable to use, I think the panel is mounted something like 1,5-2cm deep. There's a bit over 20cm of usable space in the bottom and a bit over 10 cm in top I think.

jbdiver wrote:
I just visited the woodworking shop this morning to do a fitting of the front panel before the wood was glued and finished. The trickiest part will be mounting the panel to the wood case with screws. The panel wasn't designed with a wood case in mind. We will probably end up gluing 3mm standoffs in the corners using a homemade epoxy/wood dust paste. The metal standoffs will provide something for the panel screws to grip.


Yeah, we encountered the same problem - since the PCB and panel are really close to each other in size and the screws are on so tight slots in the corners, you can't easily just make a nice little wooden bar frame to mount the whole thing to.

I suppose one good way of doing it would be to screw L-shaped aluminium / sheet metal rails to the sides, drill mounting holes to correct spots, and mount the panel with bolts & nuts to the rail. Sort of like rack rails but a bit smaller. OR you could just mount small L-brackets on each corner of the mounting space and attach the panel to those with bolts. That's what we originally planned to do.

What we ended up doing for now was to just glue & screw two thin wooden mounting bars to the top and bottom of the panel space (to make it easy to align the panel first), mount the bottom of the panel directly to the bottom bar with shorter wood screws, then glue & screw heftier pieces of wood behind the top mounting bar so the panel can be securely attached to that with long wood screws. It works and the panel stays where it is sturdily enough, but if I ever want to do gigging with the unit I'll probably just add the L-brackets afterwards for peace of mind.
ultravox
That's a thing of beauty! I also like the idea of the recessed panel. I bought a new dovetail jig to try adding some artistry to the case but what you have is spot on. I'm sure the wax and polish added some extra appeal. hihi

You guys have given me some good ideas on how to mount the front panel. I was thinking metal angles or a wooden mounting rail. Either way I'll try to make it durable so it'll last for ages. thumbs up
flts
ultravox wrote:
That's a thing of beauty! I also like the idea of the recessed panel. I bought a new dovetail jig to try adding some artistry to the case but what you have is spot on. I'm sure the wax and polish added some extra appeal. hihi


Yeah, dovetail joints would be a really nice idea both for structural and aesthetic reasons. I think I'll have to buy a jig eventually and go have some practise at my parents' house's workshop. Mine has dowel reinforcements in the joints though, which should make it sturdy enough as well, and I think the end result still looks cool.

TBH I'm not an expert in woodworking in general (and I don't have the space / facilities for it at home), so I let my father put together the frames based on my drawings whenever possible - I just build the electronics, drill & mount things to the case, and do the finishing myself.

Quote:
You guys have given me some good ideas on how to mount the front panel. I was thinking metal angles or a wooden mounting rail. Either way I'll try to make it durable so it'll last for ages. thumbs up


If you can find / cut / bend metal angles that fit to the corners, I think that's what I would go for now given the trouble we had in properly aligning all the wooden mounting stuff (and the end result still isn't too pretty even though it works). Possibly having a bit shorter top and bottom wooden alignment rails to put the panel in place first, and then securing it sturdily with L-brackets in each corner - one wing of the bracket screwed to the side panel and the panel attached to the other wing with maybe some kind of caged / welded nut or just normal nut & bolt.
rockwoofstone
SOLVED - Trigger is for ADSR only.

I've hit an odd issue with mine, relating to the trigger input to the AR.

If have an external 10V pulse going into the gate input, everything works as expected.

However, if I feed the same signal into the trigger input, I get nothing. A variety of 10V trigger sources have the same effect for me, and increasing the voltage level of the input has no effect either (just in case ~10V wan't quite enough).

Examining the signal at the junction between CR22 and CR23 (from page 6 of the schematics) shows that I'm getting basically the same signal going into the AR as I do if I switch to the internal trigger; it's just that the internally sourced trigger works, but the external one doesn't.

Anyone else seen this, or have any suggestions?
fuzzbass
tojpeters wrote:
My audio amp legs barely reached the board when bolted to the heat sinks. I used a small file and slotted the hole downwards a little bit. I also used epoxy on the solder posts of the heat sinks since there are no solder pads to secure them to.


Jon took my suggestion for a change in the TTSH BOM:

With the recommended part (Avid Thermalloy #529801B02500G), the device mounting hole is positioned too high for the TDA2030. There is a similar part better suited to the Pentawatt package design (Avid Thermalloy 529802B02500G). This part has the same footprint, but the device mounting hole is 3.3mm lower to accommodate the TDA2030. The thermal resistance rating of this heat sink is lower (better) than the original part. Be aware that the dimensions Mouser lists for the part are incorrect: the height of this part is not 38.1mm, it is 52mm (which explains why the thermal resistance is better). These will stand ~5mm taller than the nearby 2200uF caps and thus will be the tallest components on the board. This should be fine in the factory case, but if you are dealing with tight tolerances in your custom case, keep it in mind.
fuzzbass
Anyone else here notice that the wiring diagram in the "Finishing up" section has left and right reversed on the headphone jack? I only found this after I had wired up. I might go back and fix it....
fuzzbass
fuzzbass wrote:
Anyone else here notice that the wiring diagram in the "Finishing up" section has left and right reversed on the headphone jack? I only found this after I had wired up. I might go back and fix it....


Actually, the issue lies with the legends on the PCB. Tip is left and Ring is right. However "T/TN" connections are on the right power amp section.
fuzzbass
sduck wrote:
The idea is an outboard (side of case) type of input area, along with the already provided for outboard gate and trigger inputs. I'd prefer this additional cv input to not be dependent on the panel one - that one could either of them, or both, without having rules about which gets used first or whatever - does this make sense? There's probably an easy way to do this, maybe buffering with an opamp or something.


I was thinking about this too, as a way to normal in the output of an Oakley MidiDAC.

You might be overthinking this. Since the normalled connection to the panel CV input is ground, you could just extend this to another jack that whose normalled is ground. There would be a hierarchy with the panel input taking precedence. If you want to have an arrangement where both could be used, you will probably have a tradeoff with tracking precision.
flts
fuzzbass wrote:
Anyone else here notice that the wiring diagram in the "Finishing up" section has left and right reversed on the headphone jack? I only found this after I had wired up. I might go back and fix it....


Yes! Had to fix that afterwards, noticed it before casing.

rockwoofstone wrote:
I've hit an odd issue with mine, relating to the trigger input to the AR.

If have an external 10V pulse going into the gate input, everything works as expected.

However, if I feed the same signal into the trigger input, I get nothing. A variety of 10V trigger sources have the same effect for me, and increasing the voltage level of the input has no effect either (just in case ~10V wan't quite enough).

Examining the signal at the junction between CR22 and CR23 (from page 6 of the schematics) shows that I'm getting basically the same signal going into the AR as I do if I switch to the internal trigger; it's just that the internally sourced trigger works, but the external one doesn't.

Anyone else seen this, or have any suggestions?


Looking at the schematics it seems that the trigger is not connected to AR at all. So it's working as intended and I think this is how the original 2600 worked as well - gate works for both AR and ADSR, but the separate trigger input is only used for retriggering the ADSR while having the "note held" otherwise.
rockwoofstone
flts wrote:

rockwoofstone wrote:
I've hit an odd issue with mine, relating to the trigger input to the AR.

If have an external 10V pulse going into the gate input, everything works as expected.

However, if I feed the same signal into the trigger input, I get nothing. A variety of 10V trigger sources have the same effect for me, and increasing the voltage level of the input has no effect either (just in case ~10V wan't quite enough).

Examining the signal at the junction between CR22 and CR23 (from page 6 of the schematics) shows that I'm getting basically the same signal going into the AR as I do if I switch to the internal trigger; it's just that the internally sourced trigger works, but the external one doesn't.

Anyone else seen this, or have any suggestions?


Looking at the schematics it seems that the trigger is not connected to AR at all. So it's working as intended and I think this is how the original 2600 worked as well - gate works for both AR and ADSR, but the separate trigger input is only used for retriggering the ADSR while having the "note held" otherwise.


That would make sense, but isn't E47 on the schematic the trigger jack? That one is connected to the AR, and when I feed my trigger into that jack, it does get into the AR (tested at the point I mentioned above), but just fails to trigger the AR envelope.
jbdiver
I completed my build a couple days ago, but I'm struggling with two issues. I've spent the last two nights trying to solve these issues with no luck.

1) My ADSR doesn't seem to work properly. I didn't notice this at first because the ADSR is providing a transient signal -- just not the correct signal. It looks like the attack slider has no impact on the signal shape. The decay slider is basically acting like the attack slider, increasing the initial slope of the generated signal. The sustain and release sliders appear to be working normally. The components in this section look correct. I checked for proper component alignment. I checked for cold solder joints and hit all of the solder joints again. I replaced the attack slider. I'm not sure how to troubleshoot next. The AR is working fine.

2) When the initial gain slider (vca) is positioned all the way left (min) and vcf level into vca is raised, the synth is silent. I can trigger an envelope and hear the sound. As I slide the initial gain slider to the right I start to hear increasingly louder sound coming directly from the vcf. I can confirm this by manipulating the filter. I'm not sure if this behavior is expected or not. It seems strange. Again, I've checked all components and joints in the vca section.

Any troubleshooting advice is appreciated. I looked at the schematics, but I'm having a hard time translating the schematics to the board. The schematics identify the components (i.e., R123) but only the component values are labeled on the board.
rockwoofstone
rockwoofstone wrote:
flts wrote:

rockwoofstone wrote:
I've hit an odd issue with mine, relating to the trigger input to the AR.

If have an external 10V pulse going into the gate input, everything works as expected.

However, if I feed the same signal into the trigger input, I get nothing. A variety of 10V trigger sources have the same effect for me, and increasing the voltage level of the input has no effect either (just in case ~10V wan't quite enough).

Examining the signal at the junction between CR22 and CR23 (from page 6 of the schematics) shows that I'm getting basically the same signal going into the AR as I do if I switch to the internal trigger; it's just that the internally sourced trigger works, but the external one doesn't.

Anyone else seen this, or have any suggestions?


Looking at the schematics it seems that the trigger is not connected to AR at all. So it's working as intended and I think this is how the original 2600 worked as well - gate works for both AR and ADSR, but the separate trigger input is only used for retriggering the ADSR while having the "note held" otherwise.


That would make sense, but isn't E47 on the schematic the trigger jack? That one is connected to the AR, and when I feed my trigger into that jack, it does get into the AR (tested at the point I mentioned above), but just fails to trigger the AR envelope.


Actually, I looked again, and you're absolutely right! My eyes must have glazed over... Doh! d'oh!
flts
jbdiver wrote:
2) When the initial gain slider (vca) is positioned all the way left (min) and vcf level into vca is raised, the synth is silent. I can trigger an envelope and hear the sound. As I slide the initial gain slider to the right I start to hear increasingly louder sound coming directly from the vcf. I can confirm this by manipulating the filter. I'm not sure if this behavior is expected or not. It seems strange. Again, I've checked all components and joints in the vca section.


As far as I understand your explanation, this is exactly as intended and not strange at all.

- When the initial gain of VCA is at minimum and no modulation is applied to the mod inputs, there is no sound passed through the VCA. It doesn't matter what's coming to inputs of the VCA, it doesn't pass signal since its gain is zero.

- Initial gain sets, as it says, the gain of the VCA with no modulation applied to inputs. You could think of it as the static "volume" slider of the VCA. Thus as you increase the initial gain, you will start to hear more and more of whatever comes in to the VCA. As you've increased VCF->VCA level, it will be whatever comes out of the filter as you say.

- When you apply the envelope to the VCA mod input, it modules the gain of the VCA, that is, acts as an volume envelope. So when you trigger the AR/ADSR and have the mod level to VCA up, you get the VCF signal thru VCA so that the VCA gain is modulated by the envelope.

This is pretty much as in any other subtractive synth, I think? Unless I understood your explanation wrong and there's something odd going on.
rockwoofstone
jbdiver wrote:
I completed my build a couple days ago, but I'm struggling with two issues. I've spent the last two nights trying to solve these issues with no luck.

1) My ADSR doesn't seem to work properly. I didn't notice this at first because the ADSR is providing a transient signal -- just not the correct signal. It looks like the attack slider has no impact on the signal shape. The decay slider is basically acting like the attack slider, increasing the initial slope of the generated signal. The sustain and release sliders appear to be working normally. The components in this section look correct. I checked for proper component alignment. I checked for cold solder joints and hit all of the solder joints again. I replaced the attack slider. I'm not sure how to troubleshoot next. The AR is working fine.


This sounds like a variation on what I was looking at.

If you feed your gate into the GATE jack, it gates, but doesn't trigger the ADSR, so you get the behaviour you're seeing. If you multi your gate into BOTH the GATE and TRIGGER jack, then the full envelope is generated.

Alternatively, feed your gate in via the S/H GATE jack, and that sends your gate to both GATE and TRIGGER.

I think that's it!
jbdiver
rockwoofstone wrote:
jbdiver wrote:

1) My ADSR doesn't seem to work properly. I didn't notice this at first because the ADSR is providing a transient signal -- just not the correct signal. It looks like the attack slider has no impact on the signal shape. The decay slider is basically acting like the attack slider, increasing the initial slope of the generated signal.


This sounds like a variation on what I was looking at.

If you feed your gate into the GATE jack, it gates, but doesn't trigger the ADSR, so you get the behaviour you're seeing. If you multi your gate into BOTH the GATE and TRIGGER jack, then the full envelope is generated.

Alternatively, feed your gate in via the S/H GATE jack, and that sends your gate to both GATE and TRIGGER.

I think that's it!


Interesting. I haven't hooked up a keyboard to the synth yet. I've just been using the manual pushbutton on the front panel to trigger the envelopes during testing. Does the pushbutton only send a gate signal?
jbdiver
flts wrote:
jbdiver wrote:
2) When the initial gain slider (vca) is positioned all the way left (min) and vcf level into vca is raised, the synth is silent. I can trigger an envelope and hear the sound. As I slide the initial gain slider to the right I start to hear increasingly louder sound coming directly from the vcf.


As far as I understand your explanation, this is exactly as intended and not strange at all.

- When the initial gain of VCA is at minimum and no modulation is applied to the mod inputs, there is no sound passed through the VCA. It doesn't matter what's coming to inputs of the VCA, it doesn't pass signal since its gain is zero.



Ah, I understand now. I didn't understand the purpose of this particular control. Makes perfect sense to me now. When I first turned on the synth it was making sounds (a good thing), but I couldn't figure out why because the synth wasn't receiving a gate signal. I have much to learn about this synth. Thanks!
rockwoofstone
jbdiver wrote:
Interesting. I haven't hooked up a keyboard to the synth yet. I've just been using the manual pushbutton on the front panel to trigger the envelopes during testing. Does the pushbutton only send a gate signal?


The manual button is internally mult'ed to both the gate and trigger in the ADSR, hence it works as you were expecting. thumbs up

EDIT - Ah - I just read your response again, and it looks as if you're saying you get the unexpected behaviour when using the manual button, in which case I'm not sure what the problem is. Sorry!
fuzzbass
rockwoofstone wrote:
jbdiver wrote:
I completed my build a couple days ago, but I'm struggling with two issues. I've spent the last two nights trying to solve these issues with no luck.

1) My ADSR doesn't seem to work properly. I didn't notice this at first because the ADSR is providing a transient signal -- just not the correct signal. It looks like the attack slider has no impact on the signal shape. The decay slider is basically acting like the attack slider, increasing the initial slope of the generated signal. The sustain and release sliders appear to be working normally. The components in this section look correct. I checked for proper component alignment. I checked for cold solder joints and hit all of the solder joints again. I replaced the attack slider. I'm not sure how to troubleshoot next. The AR is working fine.


This sounds like a variation on what I was looking at.

If you feed your gate into the GATE jack, it gates, but doesn't trigger the ADSR, so you get the behaviour you're seeing. If you multi your gate into BOTH the GATE and TRIGGER jack, then the full envelope is generated.

Alternatively, feed your gate in via the S/H GATE jack, and that sends your gate to both GATE and TRIGGER.

I think that's it!


Makes perfect sense if you recall that a typical 2600 would be connected to an ARP keyboard that generates both a gate and a trigger.

Although I am not rich or lucky enough to own an actual ARP 2600, my point of reference is the Arturia 2600 vst. If you look at sequencer patches on there, you will see the sequencer gate output patched to the S/H gate input, and not the gate or trigger individual inputs.

Besides not being rich, a am also not an electrical engineer, so I doubt I am up to analyzing the ADSR. But I would guess, based on observation, that the assertion of gate is used by Sustain, its deassertion is used by Release, while Attack and Decay occur serially, in response to Trigger. Just a guess...
fuzzbass
jbdiver wrote:
flts wrote:
jbdiver wrote:
2) When the initial gain slider (vca) is positioned all the way left (min) and vcf level into vca is raised, the synth is silent. I can trigger an envelope and hear the sound. As I slide the initial gain slider to the right I start to hear increasingly louder sound coming directly from the vcf.


As far as I understand your explanation, this is exactly as intended and not strange at all.

- When the initial gain of VCA is at minimum and no modulation is applied to the mod inputs, there is no sound passed through the VCA. It doesn't matter what's coming to inputs of the VCA, it doesn't pass signal since its gain is zero.



Ah, I understand now. I didn't understand the purpose of this particular control. Makes perfect sense to me now. When I first turned on the synth it was making sounds (a good thing), but I couldn't figure out why because the synth wasn't receiving a gate signal. I have much to learn about this synth. Thanks!


In 1982 I took a college course [yes I am that old] in music synthesis. It was taught using an ARP 2600. You picked the perfect teaching synth to learn with.
Vcs3
Is there a test patch? Something you can set up just to compare the results of a newly born TTSH with one that has been properly set up?
elmegil
rockwoofstone wrote:
jbdiver wrote:
Interesting. I haven't hooked up a keyboard to the synth yet. I've just been using the manual pushbutton on the front panel to trigger the envelopes during testing. Does the pushbutton only send a gate signal?


The manual button is internally mult'ed to both the gate and trigger in the ADSR, hence it works as you were expecting. thumbs up

EDIT - Ah - I just read your response again, and it looks as if you're saying you get the unexpected behaviour when using the manual button, in which case I'm not sure what the problem is. Sorry!


I think your analysis is correct though. I've seen this behavior in other ADSRs (MOTM-800, Thomas Henry) and it's always been a case of the trigger not showing up correctly.

I just looked at the schematics briefly and the switch is hooked to both trigger and gate lines, so I would look for something that is causing your trigger line to be grounded, or isolated from the circuit. The 100K ADSR-R21, or an open cap at ADSR-C4 (a 10n) would look like the most likely possible causes, also check the diode CR24, if it's backwards or shorted or something.
ualslosar
Arturia makes software of the Arp 2600. The software comes with many patches. TTSH could be compared to the Arturia software, if a comparison is needed.
rockwoofstone
Regarding the gate/trigger discussions, I can see something which may have been contributing to the confusion (and also explains why some patches I've examined seemed to make little sense)....

On the original 2600, the KBD CV, GATE and TRIG jacks are all outputs. All three of these signals are fed into the main unit from the keyboard via the 6 pin connector, so don't require a jack connection. However, that obviously doesn't exist for the TTSH, so I assume Zhee decided to repurpose these jacks as inputs instead.

Makes sense, and regarding the GATE/TRIG discussion, explains why there are two separate jacks: in the original, both gate and trigger get fed to the AR/ADSR in the same way as the manual button press does (that also providing both gate and trigger). These two jacks would separate out these signals in case you wanted to use them for something else. Thus, outputs!
fuzzbass
rockwoofstone wrote:
Regarding the gate/trigger discussions, I can see something which may have been contributing to the confusion (and also explains why some patches I've examined seemed to make little sense)....

On the original 2600, the KBD CV, GATE and TRIG jacks are all outputs. All three of these signals are fed into the main unit from the keyboard via the 6 pin connector, so don't require a jack connection. However, that obviously doesn't exist for the TTSH, so I assume Zhee decided to repurpose these jacks as inputs instead.

Makes sense, and regarding the GATE/TRIG discussion, explains why there are two separate jacks: in the original, both gate and trigger get fed to the AR/ADSR in the same way as the manual button press does (that also providing both gate and trigger). These two jacks would separate out these signals in case you wanted to use them for something else. Thus, outputs!


Could be...

However, might instead be that the old panel is labelled on the assumption that an ARP keyboard is always part of the system. I was scratching my head as to why these points on the panel are labelled like outputs, when they are clearly inputs. They were normalled to pins on the keyboard cinch connector, which accepted the keyboard outputs, never anything else!

Looking at the schematic, it's plain that the AR is strictly trigger driven. Triggers flip on Q5, allowing C69 to charge at the rate limited by the setting of the attack control. As C69 charges, the AR begins its rise (attack) cycle. When C69 is fully charged, Q5 flips off, and C69 begins to discharge via the decay control. If an new trigger arrives while q5 is on, it changes nothing. If a new trigger arrives during the fall cycle, it will flip on Q5, and C69 will begin charging again, from whatever point it was at in the discharge cycle. If the cycle is not completed, new triggers do not restart them, but will reverse them if falling. New triggers cannot make C69 charge up or discharge any faster than the settings of R174 and R175 allow. The AR is oblivious to the state of the gate signal.

I'll leave it so someone smarter than me to describe how the ADSR works, but note, that the trigger signal goes in at the front of the circuit. The gate signal is controlling things further in (like maybe the duration of the sustain phase, and the beginning of the release phase?)
satindas
After matching the trannys I noticed just how sensitive these things are to temperature and now I'm wondering... Should they be in thermal contact? ie. should I use compound? I've not seen any mention of this but it seems to make sense.
fuzzbass
fuzzbass wrote:
Looking at the schematic, it's plain that the AR is strictly trigger driven. Triggers flip on Q5, allowing C69 to charge at the rate limited by the setting of the attack control. As C69 charges, the AR begins its rise (attack) cycle. When C69 is fully charged, Q5 flips off, and C69 begins to discharge via the decay control. If an new trigger arrives while q5 is on, it changes nothing. If a new trigger arrives during the fall cycle, it will flip on Q5, and C69 will begin charging again, from whatever point it was at in the discharge cycle. If the cycle is not completed, new triggers do not restart them, but will reverse them if falling. New triggers cannot make C69 charge up or discharge any faster than the settings of R174 and R175 allow. The AR is oblivious to the state of the gate signal.



AR generators are especially useful for percussive type sounds, but the 2600 and TTSH have a rather sluggish AR generator. If you would like to change the range of the AR, the value of C69 is the place to do it.
fuzzbass
satindas wrote:
After matching the trannys I noticed just how sensitive these things are to temperature and now I'm wondering... Should they be in thermal contact? ie. should I use compound? I've not seen any mention of this but it seems to make sense.


I did. [/img]
fuzzbass
tojpeters wrote:
What is the consensus on the matched tranny pairs? I see the mouser list has around 25 each of 3904 and 3906, but don't most of those need to be matched pairs?
I'm bringing this up to point out that the numbers on the list are correct(?) but the number you need to buy to get your matched pairs will be higher. The price break is at 100 on those,only a couple more bucks will get you 4 times the amount of trans. If you are matching your own you will need the 100. 50 would probably do it but that costs more than 100.


Neat trick: if you order these on cut tape, you will be nearly assured of units from same batch. You will get a whole lot of matched pairs out of these. I found when matching that when the batch number matched, most of the transistors were well within Dr. Bob's definition of matched.
qp
fuzzbass wrote:

Neat trick: if you order these on cut tape, you will be nearly assured of units from same batch. You will get a whole lot of matched pairs out of these. I found when matching that when the batch number matched, most of the transistors were well within Dr. Bob's definition of matched.


I haven't put this to test yet, but this is what did. I made sure to order them from cut tape instead bulk. All of the date codes match, so all should be pretty well matched. I will find out in a couple days if the VCA is thump-less.
sduck
satindas wrote:
After matching the trannys I noticed just how sensitive these things are to temperature and now I'm wondering... Should they be in thermal contact? ie. should I use compound? I've not seen any mention of this but it seems to make sense.


I used heat sink compound from radio shack and small pieces of heat shrink on the matched pairs in the VCF and the VCA. I also did this with the not-so-matched set next to the tempco in the VCOs. Although fuzzbass's ones in the S&H look great, I didn't bother with those - I don't think it'll make a real difference there. I could be wrong.
ultravox
Here's some further reading on controlling the 2600/TTSH via MIDI Keyboard:

http://discretesynthesizers.com/arptronics/midicv.htm

Also at the bottom of Kenton's page has more details:

http://www.kentonuk.com/info/howtoconnect.shtml#k

Cheers
satindas
fuzzbass wrote:

I did. [/img]


Tidy ! Is that regular heat shrink you used on them?
etaoin
I always understood that if you heat up transistors considerably their specs might change, so it was advised not to heat up matched pairs too much. Not sure if putting a heat gun on them would count as "too much" though.
roglok
etaoin wrote:
I always understood that if you heat up transistors considerably their specs might change, so it was advised not to heat up matched pairs too much. Not sure if putting a heat gun on them would count as "too much" though.


there's also the zip-tie route...

M-Circus
When checking the waveforms on the VCOs, how did you all go by applying the +15V to the resistor pictured in the building guide? I've attempted just touching a wire to the resistor in question, but that just gives me a stuttering waveform. I'm assuming I'm not able to make a sturdy enough connection this way? Any pointers from those more experienced welcomed.
latigid on
Can you use a croc/alligator clip? If you are holding the wire your body's capacitance may have an influence. Maybe a temporary solder joint?
M-Circus
Yeah, a clip would be nice but don't have one at hand. Temporary soldering it is probably the way to go for now. Thanks!
Monobass
If anyone is after the 1.87k tempcos I just update the site with a large restock.

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/tempco-resistor-krl-bantry-3500ppm-x2/

I also have everything in stock for a run of rare parts kits finally! The wishlist is pretty big but I think some people may drop out as it took longer than expected so do join up if you are interested. 6 confirmed TTSH builds with these kits now smile

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ttsh-rpk/
Heavy Metal Kid
Monobass wrote:
6 confirmed TTSH builds with these kits now smile


You can add my build to those, if you haven't already!
Monobass
seven applause
M-Circus
7 confirmed builds
1 confirmed ready to throw his out the window

hihi
Monobass
stay strong! I haven't had time to get past the VCO boards and IC sockets d'oh!
M-Circus
Hehe! Yeah, I'll hang in there. Main problem is the same as your: lack of time. Would be nice making some music again too, but this is currently taking up all time usually spent on that. It better come out good in the end...

On a different note: I simply cannot seem to find any 30p capacitors (needed for VCO2) amongst my parts. Looking through the Mouser cart from Jon (the one which is on the site now), there doesn't appear to be any. Which makes me believe I'm missing something here. Could anyone tell me what part I'm supposed to use here?

(For the record: I don't have any 0.03nF or 0.00003uF capacitors either, so it doesn't appear to simply be a labeling misunderstanding)

Edit: I'll be ready with this image for when the reply comes in...

LED-man
M-Circus wrote:
Hehe! Yeah, I'll hang in there. Main problem is the same as your: lack of time. Would be nice making some music again too, but this is currently taking up all time usually spent on that. It better come out good in the end...

On a different note: I simply cannot seem to find any 30p capacitors (needed for VCO2) amongst my parts. Looking through the Mouser cart from Jon (the one which is on the site now), there doesn't appear to be any. Which makes me believe I'm missing something here. Could anyone tell me what part I'm supposed to use here?

(For the record: I don't have any 0.03nF or 0.00003uF capacitors either, so it doesn't appear to simply be a labeling misunderstanding)

Edit: I'll be ready with this image for when the reply comes in...



take the 33p c0g caps..
LED-man
M-Circus
Thanks. I suspected that would be the reply I'd receive.
fuzzbass
rockwoofstone wrote:


On the original 2600, the KBD CV, GATE and TRIG jacks are all outputs. All three of these signals are fed into the main unit from the keyboard via the 6 pin connector, so don't require a jack connection. However, that obviously doesn't exist for the TTSH, so I assume Zhee decided to repurpose these jacks as inputs instead.



Forgive me I know I have blathered on about this. Last night, after playing the 2600 for a bit, a light bulb appeared in the air, over my head.

The KBD CV OUTPUT was an output. On the original 2600, it had to be so, otherwise there would be no way to get the keyboard CV into the LAG Processor, which would be the first patch any keyboard player would want. So this jack was normalled to the CV bus, and routed to the keyboard CV signal coming from the cinch connector. This arrangement would be very simple to replicate on the TTSH because it does not involve the PCB.

Also, the long treatise I put in here yesterday about the inner workings of the AD.... wrong, sorry.
flts
Monobass wrote:
I also have everything in stock for a run of rare parts kits finally! The wishlist is pretty big but I think some people may drop out as it took longer than expected so do join up if you are interested. 6 confirmed TTSH builds with these kits now smile


If you haven't counted mine, you can add me to list. hihi

I originally ordered all the rare parts from eBay separately, but finally decided I want to keep a "survival kit" for whoever owns the synth in 10 or 25 years (whether that's me or someone else). So I ordered a Thonk Rare Parts Kit and used those parts in the build itself. Works a treat.
sduck
M-Circus wrote:
When checking the waveforms on the VCOs, how did you all go by applying the +15V to the resistor pictured in the building guide? I've attempted just touching a wire to the resistor in question, but that just gives me a stuttering waveform. I'm assuming I'm not able to make a sturdy enough connection this way? Any pointers from those more experienced welcomed.


Pomono test clips - come in a variety of kinds -

These things are indispensible for building electronic stuff once you get past the newbie stage - I have a pile of these, actually all of the 5523 kind, and they were all used at various times during the TTSH build. For instance, during the build it/test it phase, I had 2 of them going between the power supply and the wall wart outlet - and used them with the scope, etc...

ultravox
Great idea, I just ordered a Thonk post apocalypse survival kit too! thumbs up

flts wrote:
Monobass wrote:
I also have everything in stock for a run of rare parts kits finally! The wishlist is pretty big but I think some people may drop out as it took longer than expected so do join up if you are interested. 6 confirmed TTSH builds with these kits now smile


If you haven't counted mine, you can add me to list. hihi

I originally ordered all the rare parts from eBay separately, but finally decided I want to keep a "survival kit" for whoever owns the synth in 10 or 25 years (whether that's me or someone else). So I ordered a Thonk Rare Parts Kit and used those parts in the build itself. Works a treat.
flts
sduck wrote:
Pomono test clips - come in a variety of kinds -

These things are indispensible for building electronic stuff once you get past the newbie stage - I have a pile of these, actually all of the 5523 kind, and they were all used at various times during the TTSH build. For instance, during the build it/test it phase, I had 2 of them going between the power supply and the wall wart outlet - and used them with the scope, etc...


I've just used small alligator test clip leads but they're getting really clumsy for something like TTSH (which isn't nowhere near the smallest or most dense layout out there). I also have a couple of banana to minigrabber leads I used for powering the unit up from test PSU during build etc... So, thank you a lot for pointing those Pomona 5523s exist. I think I'm going to order a pack of them soon, haven't been able to find any minigrabber-minigrabber leads in local shops. They'd have saved a lot of headache.
spneca
So, I did the mod to stop the clock from flashing the LED, but I am still hearing the clock bleed into the VCO pitch. Anybody have any idea how to stop it?
Heavy Metal Kid
spneca wrote:
So, I did the mod to stop the clock from flashing the LED, but I am still hearing the clock bleed into the VCO pitch. Anybody have any idea how to stop it?


You removed the transistor and jumped the top two holes in the transistor socket? I still hear the clock bleed after this mod, but I trimmed the clock rate so that when the clock slider is at full speed, the bleed is no longer noticeable.
spneca
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
spneca wrote:
So, I did the mod to stop the clock from flashing the LED, but I am still hearing the clock bleed into the VCO pitch. Anybody have any idea how to stop it?


You removed the transistor and jumped the top two holes in the transistor socket? I still hear the clock bleed after this mod, but I trimmed the clock rate so that when the clock slider is at full speed, the bleed is no longer noticeable.


Yes. That's the mod I was referring to.

Thanks for the tip. That will be fine in many situations, but it stinks if I want to use the clock for something.
M-Circus
sduck wrote:

Pomono test clips - come in a variety of kinds -

These things are indispensible for building electronic stuff once you get past the newbie stage - I have a pile of these, actually all of the 5523 kind, and they were all used at various times during the TTSH build. For instance, during the build it/test it phase, I had 2 of them going between the power supply and the wall wart outlet - and used them with the scope, etc...



Cool! I'll order a few. How many am I likely to need here simultaneously? 2 or 3?
Heavy Metal Kid
spneca wrote:
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
spneca wrote:
So, I did the mod to stop the clock from flashing the LED, but I am still hearing the clock bleed into the VCO pitch. Anybody have any idea how to stop it?


You removed the transistor and jumped the top two holes in the transistor socket? I still hear the clock bleed after this mod, but I trimmed the clock rate so that when the clock slider is at full speed, the bleed is no longer noticeable.


Yes. That's the mod I was referring to.

Thanks for the tip. That will be fine in many situations, but it stinks if I want to use the clock for something.


How much pitch bending are you hearing? In my case it's so little that it gets covered up by a filter modulation or most other things I can imagine using the clock for.
spneca
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
spneca wrote:
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
spneca wrote:
So, I did the mod to stop the clock from flashing the LED, but I am still hearing the clock bleed into the VCO pitch. Anybody have any idea how to stop it?


You removed the transistor and jumped the top two holes in the transistor socket? I still hear the clock bleed after this mod, but I trimmed the clock rate so that when the clock slider is at full speed, the bleed is no longer noticeable.


Yes. That's the mod I was referring to.

Thanks for the tip. That will be fine in many situations, but it stinks if I want to use the clock for something.


How much pitch bending are you hearing? In my case it's so little that it gets covered up by a filter modulation or most other things I can imagine using the clock for.


I'm not next to it to double check, but I think it was changing somewhere between a semitone and a wholetone, which renders the clock unusable.
Heavy Metal Kid
That sounds like what I had before I removed the clock LED. Also - have you normalled the "KBD CV OUT" jack to ground? I had problems with the pitch CV floating before I did that.
spneca
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
That sounds like what I had before I removed the clock LED. Also - have you normalled the "KBD CV OUT" jack to ground? I had problems with the pitch CV floating before I did that.


Hmm. I did normal it to ground. At least I think I did. I'll double check when I get home.

Do I need to remove the LED from the slider itself? All I did was remove the transistor that controlled the blinking.
flts
I got really minimal clock bleed with the test power supply I was using, and with the PowerOne PSU I just installed there's next to no bleed to VCOs. Or maybe I was just more deaf than usual yesterday. It's never definitely been anywhere near semitone, as I said it sounded more like a slight waveshape modulation here and yesterday I couldn't hear it at all..

Instead, I did start noticing the bleed of the noise to one of the speakers that I thought wasn't happening before. I'm not sure it's something I need to fix since it doesn't bleed to the outputs otherwise, but it's kind of funny. When I turn the left speaker up to around 3/4 the noise is loudest (with no other signal playing) and when I turn the speaker volume / gain up from there it starts getting more quiet again until at full amplification it's not very irritating / noticeable anymore.
sduck
M-Circus wrote:
sduck wrote:

Pomono test clips - come in a variety of kinds -

These things are indispensible for building electronic stuff once you get past the newbie stage - I have a pile of these, actually all of the 5523 kind, and they were all used at various times during the TTSH build. For instance, during the build it/test it phase, I had 2 of them going between the power supply and the wall wart outlet - and used them with the scope, etc...



Cool! I'll order a few. How many am I likely to need here simultaneously? 2 or 3?


My advice on this - buy a dozen. Or as many as you can afford. I think I have 6, and there's one of the tests that needed one more than I had.
M-Circus
You're aware they're €30 a piece, right? ;-)
Kipling
I've been away a few days and just catching up on the thread about CV/Gate/Trigger in etc.

I will be using an external CV/Gate/Trigger keyboard (my 3620 clone) so will need the three signal inputs and power on a 6-pin Cinch connector I'll fit to the left of the case where it was on the original 2600. The power rails are easy of course (+15V to pin 4, 0V to pin 1, -15V to pin 3) but I need a little advice on where to connect the three signal inputs.

I can see there are 2-pin headers on the main PCB for Gate and Trigger, and there is another 2-pin header labelled to Keybd CV to all osc.

If I connect the Gate and Trigger headers to pins 5 and 6 respectively on the Cinch connector, would I be right in assuming that the keyboard CV (pin 2 of the Cinch connector) goes to the tip contact on the front panel-mounted Kbd CV OUT socket, and then from the switched side of the socket to the Keybd CV input on the main PCB? If I'm right then inserting a patch lead in the Kbd CV OUT socket will allow the keyboard's CV output to be disconnected from the Keybd CV header and patched to wherever you want. The input would of course float if no keyboard was connected which by the sound of it is not ideal, but since mine will always have a keyboard connected (when I get around to building it) it won't matter to me.

If not any suggestions?
Heavy Metal Kid
spneca wrote:
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
That sounds like what I had before I removed the clock LED. Also - have you normalled the "KBD CV OUT" jack to ground? I had problems with the pitch CV floating before I did that.


Hmm. I did normal it to ground. At least I think I did. I'll double check when I get home.

Do I need to remove the LED from the slider itself? All I did was remove the transistor that controlled the blinking.


Yeah, I meant the transistor. Removing the actual LED had no effect on my synth at least.
Kipling
M-Circus wrote:
You're aware they're €30 a piece, right? ;-)


The 5523 kit is ten 24" leads of various colours as far as I can make out.
M-Circus
I was looking at these --> http://no.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Pomona-Electronics/5523/?qs=sGAEpiM ZZMs4AFwHyzhTm8ttjSfe845BMn8j3oAaAOA%3d
M-Circus
Okay, sorry for pestering you all tonight with my silly questions. It should be pretty apparent by now that I was never an electronics major...

Thing is, I'm not really seeing any of the desired waveforms when testing VCO1 and VCO2. This worries me a bit, but as I've taken this extremely slow and I'm confident my soldering is okay, I'd be surprised if I'd managed to make an error on both VCOs. This leads me to believe I'm doing something wrong when measuring.

I've tested the scope on my modular, so I know that one works. I'm however completely new to it, so a little uncertain if I'm doing it all right. What I'm guessing it that I'm not getting the grounding right. I've attempted to ground it to one of the other "0" points on the PSU distribution, but it suddenly hit me these might be part of a completely different circuit, not currently connected to the one I'm testing. Is my reasoning on this correct? If so: where on earth should I connect the ground when doing these tests?
rockwoofstone
Monobass wrote:
6 confirmed TTSH builds with these kits now smile



Make that 7 thumbs up
rockwoofstone
rockwoofstone wrote:
Monobass wrote:
6 confirmed TTSH builds with these kits now smile



Make that 7 thumbs up


Gah! Read the following message, 8 would be more like it hihi
rockwoofstone
fuzzbass wrote:
rockwoofstone wrote:


On the original 2600, the KBD CV, GATE and TRIG jacks are all outputs. All three of these signals are fed into the main unit from the keyboard via the 6 pin connector, so don't require a jack connection. However, that obviously doesn't exist for the TTSH, so I assume Zhee decided to repurpose these jacks as inputs instead.



Forgive me I know I have blathered on about this. Last night, after playing the 2600 for a bit, a light bulb appeared in the air, over my head.

The KBD CV OUTPUT was an output. On the original 2600, it had to be so, otherwise there would be no way to get the keyboard CV into the LAG Processor, which would be the first patch any keyboard player would want. So this jack was normalled to the CV bus, and routed to the keyboard CV signal coming from the cinch connector. This arrangement would be very simple to replicate on the TTSH because it does not involve the PCB.

Also, the long treatise I put in here yesterday about the inner workings of the AD.... wrong, sorry.


No problem!

I've been thinking about a way of making these (GATE & TRIG) multi-purpose today (input or output, depending on your needs), plus allow 5V triggers to be used if required. The debate was all very useful to get the workings of this straight in my head. Got some breadboarding to do this evening to see if it will work.
Kipling
M-Circus wrote:
I was looking at these --> http://no.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Pomona-Electronics/5523/?qs=sGAEpiM ZZMs4AFwHyzhTm8ttjSfe845BMn8j3oAaAOA%3d

They're the ones - 10 leads of 24" (600mm) length in assorted colours
jbdiver
flts wrote:

Instead, I did start noticing the bleed of the noise to one of the speakers that I thought wasn't happening before. I'm not sure it's something I need to fix since it doesn't bleed to the outputs otherwise, but it's kind of funny. When I turn the left speaker up to around 3/4 the noise is loudest (with no other signal playing) and when I turn the speaker volume / gain up from there it starts getting more quiet again until at full amplification it's not very irritating / noticeable anymore.


I notice something similar with the left speaker. In my case, the level of noise in the left speaker is also related to the pink-white noise slider. The level of noise is nearly silent when the slider is all the way down (pink), but then steadily increases as the slider is moved up. It's not a significant amount of noise -- like a soft hiss when you really increase the volume of a speaker. Again, it just impacts the left speaker.
jbdiver
M-Circus wrote:
I've attempted to ground it to one of the other "0" points on the PSU distribution, but it suddenly hit me these might be part of a completely different circuit, not currently connected to the one I'm testing. Is my reasoning on this correct?


This is correct. You can use any of those ground points. I also mounted a standoff in the top mounting hole on the board and used that for grounding because it was easy to access and I wouldn't accidentally touch a power rail.

You should be able to see the waveforms pretty clearly. Start with VCO1 first and don't move on until that's working. You can test all the 4027 boards in that circuit one at a time. If none of them work then you either have a problem with the vco1 build or an incorrect/faulty component in all of the small boards.
Heavy Metal Kid
jbdiver wrote:
flts wrote:

Instead, I did start noticing the bleed of the noise to one of the speakers that I thought wasn't happening before. I'm not sure it's something I need to fix since it doesn't bleed to the outputs otherwise, but it's kind of funny. When I turn the left speaker up to around 3/4 the noise is loudest (with no other signal playing) and when I turn the speaker volume / gain up from there it starts getting more quiet again until at full amplification it's not very irritating / noticeable anymore.


I notice something similar with the left speaker. In my case, the level of noise in the left speaker is also related to the pink-white noise slider. The level of noise is nearly silent when the slider is all the way down (pink), but then steadily increases as the slider is moved up. It's not a significant amount of noise -- like a soft hiss when you really increase the volume of a speaker. Again, it just impacts the left speaker.


Same here.
rockwoofstone
jbdiver wrote:
flts wrote:

Instead, I did start noticing the bleed of the noise to one of the speakers that I thought wasn't happening before. I'm not sure it's something I need to fix since it doesn't bleed to the outputs otherwise, but it's kind of funny. When I turn the left speaker up to around 3/4 the noise is loudest (with no other signal playing) and when I turn the speaker volume / gain up from there it starts getting more quiet again until at full amplification it's not very irritating / noticeable anymore.


I notice something similar with the left speaker. In my case, the level of noise in the left speaker is also related to the pink-white noise slider. The level of noise is nearly silent when the slider is all the way down (pink), but then steadily increases as the slider is moved up. It's not a significant amount of noise -- like a soft hiss when you really increase the volume of a speaker. Again, it just impacts the left speaker.


I get the same thing, left speaker only, but it's so quiet, it's almost imperceptible, and given it's not on the outputs, I'm not losing any sleep over it.
M-Circus
Kipling wrote:

They're the ones - 10 leads of 24" (600mm) length in assorted colours


My bad. That's obviously the price for 10. Couldn't believe these things were that expensive. hihi

jbdiver wrote:

This is correct. You can use any of those ground points. I also mounted a standoff in the top mounting hole on the board and used that for grounding because it was easy to access and I wouldn't accidentally touch a power rail.

You should be able to see the waveforms pretty clearly. Start with VCO1 first and don't move on until that's working. You can test all the 4027 boards in that circuit one at a time. If none of them work then you either have a problem with the vco1 build or an incorrect/faulty component in all of the small boards.


Hmmm... Troubleshooting is in order then.
fuzzbass
Monobass wrote:
If anyone is after the 1.87k tempcos I just update the site with a large restock.

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/tempco-resistor-krl-bantry-3500ppm-x2/

I also have everything in stock for a run of rare parts kits finally! The wishlist is pretty big but I think some people may drop out as it took longer than expected so do join up if you are interested. 6 confirmed TTSH builds with these kits now smile

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ttsh-rpk/


Done.
fuzzbass
VCO Calibration...

The procedure in the original service manual is not really very effective, and I think there are improvements that have rolled up into the TTSH design that make the original calibration procedure obsolete. Here is what I did, and it worked pretty well. For this I used my bk precision 5491b frequency counter function, in hZ mode, a Kenton Pro Solo, and a 61 note midi keyboard.

1. Turn on the synth and let it warm up for 20-30 minutes.
2. Test your CV source, playing an A2 (15 half steps below middle C). If you have a 61 note keyboard you will probably have to transpose down one octave to get this note. Adjust the resulting CV if necessary to get into the range .002 - .998v, the closer to zero the better. Concert pitch for 0V should be 110hZ. We will tune it to 100hZ, which should not make much difference with 1v/oct tracking and will be easier to read on the frequency counter.
3. Connect this to the CV "output" input. Start with VCO1. Connect the square wave output to your frequency counter. Set the Initial Oscillator Frequency control to 100hz, and put the Fine Tune control to center. Adjust the Freq Cal trimmer to get as close to 100hZ as possible. Do not change this trimmer for the remainder of the procedure. You can home in on 100hZ from here with the Fine Tune control. The press A6 and adjust the 1V OCT trimmer to get as close to 1600hZ as possible.
Press A2 again, and adjust the Fine Tune control to get 100hZ. Press A6 and adjust the 1V OCT trimmer to get 1600hZ. By the third or fourth time through, you should be returning pretty close to 100hZ when you go back down to A2.
4. Lather, rinse repeat with VCO 2 and 3. Then tune them all together and play them across the keyboard. They should stay fairly close across five octaves at least.

May not be good enough for Donald Fagan, but good enough for me.
fuzzbass
M-Circus wrote:
I was looking at these --> http://no.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Pomona-Electronics/5523/?qs=sGAEpiM ZZMs4AFwHyzhTm8ttjSfe845BMn8j3oAaAOA%3d


Mouser is not a great source for Pamona test accessories. Check around the web to see if there is a seller near you who specializes. I get my test leads and banana patch cables from testpath.com in the US. You might find a seller closer to your location. Testpath does not keep a deep inventory, but they are very prompt and attentive with backordered items. They always send me an email afterward asking if I received everything. How many web merchants do that?
M-Circus
I've already ordered one of those kits.

Mouser's damn quick though. I usually have their stuff on my door just a couple of days after ordering. Not bad for a US-->Norway delivery.
elmegil
sduck wrote:
My advice on this - buy a dozen. Or as many as you can afford. I think I have 6, and there's one of the tests that needed one more than I had.


And don't cheap out like I did and buy some no name brand probes (from Fry's in my case). I have had to rebuild at least three of them, and I have two more that separated sitting next to me in a pile of "I'll get to that".
sduck
M-Circus wrote:
Okay, sorry for pestering you all tonight with my silly questions. It should be pretty apparent by now that I was never an electronics major...

Thing is, I'm not really seeing any of the desired waveforms when testing VCO1 and VCO2. This worries me a bit, but as I've taken this extremely slow and I'm confident my soldering is okay, I'd be surprised if I'd managed to make an error on both VCOs. This leads me to believe I'm doing something wrong when measuring.

I've tested the scope on my modular, so I know that one works. I'm however completely new to it, so a little uncertain if I'm doing it all right. What I'm guessing it that I'm not getting the grounding right. I've attempted to ground it to one of the other "0" points on the PSU distribution, but it suddenly hit me these might be part of a completely different circuit, not currently connected to the one I'm testing. Is my reasoning on this correct? If so: where on earth should I connect the ground when doing these tests?


I used the little wire I used for a temporary jumper near the power supply outputs for the scope ground for all my testing. And make sure you're supplying the 15v supply to the indicated resistor leads for testing. This is one of those connections that the pomona leads is great for.
M-Circus
Yeah, going over LED-man's photos last night, I realized that you need to apply those +15V when testing the other VCOs too, not just when testing VCO1. Highly logical I guess. Anyway, that explains why I got nothing when testing VCO2 yesterday.

Pomona clips apparently arriving Monday, so I'll test again then. Until then, I'm gonna keep building.
rockwoofstone
Summary of modification:

Enables use of 5V gates as an input from an external source to a dedicated jack below the current KBD CV input, these now fully opening the AR/ADSR envelopes.
Full "strength" gates and triggers from this input made available at the gate and trigger jacks for use as you see fit.



So, here's the modification I implemented yesterday evening relating to gates and triggers.

The bottom jack in the mult is repurposed as the Keyboard Gate/Trigger input. It takes 5V (or more) triggers, and boosts them up to the level required to fully open the AR/ADSR in the same way a 10V gate/trigger would do. This jack is norm'd to ground (in the same way the KBD CV input is). It will work with lower level triggers too, but you'll not open the AR/ADSR fully (similar to if you feed lower level gates and triggers into the S/H Gate jack).

Additionally, the gate being input goes through a gate to trigger converter resulting in a 10V trigger derived from the incoming signal.

The 10V gate, and 10V trigger are connected to the gate and trigger headers on the PCB in the ADSR section.

Finally, the norm'd and regular input on the Gate and Trigger jacks on the PCB are shorted. This results in the ability to feed your 5V gate into the repurposed jack, and the resultant gate and trigger are output from these two jacks, exactly as per the original 2600.

So, in use, you can feed 10V gates directly into the S/H Gate jack (or just use the internal clock by not connecting anything), move the switch down, and the TTSH will operate as before. However, if you move the switch up, the 10V gate will be used from the repurposed jack. If you leave the switch down, but feed in a gate to the repurposed jack, then using the 10V gate or trigger available at the gate and trigger jacks, you can take, for example, the trigger, and feed that into the S/H Gate jack. Seems to work really well, and is a lot more intuitive than my description does credit!

Also, you can still feed separate gate and trigger signals into the gate and trigger jacks, and move the switch up, and the TTSH will operate as before.

Thus, depending on what your doing, the gate and trigger jack will either take an input, or provide a 10V output derived from the repurposed jack.

Plus, the arrow markings on the panel for the gate and trigger jacks now reflect the actual functionality!

The circuit to do this is fairly simple, and is essentially as follows:

Input into a non-inverting op-amp which doubles the voltage level of the input, then feed it through a diode to strip out the negative portion, feeding the gate output of the circuit.
Same gate goes into Ken Stones CGS Gate to Trigger Converter circuit, the output of which is your trigger.

I won't reproduce the circuit here, as it's mostly Ken's (with the extra op-amp and gate output stuck on the front), so just refer to his site for the details. I expoxy'd some standoffs on the interior base of the case, and just mounted the PCB there. All pretty straightforward, and works really well.
fuzzbass
rockwoofstone wrote:
Summary of modification:

Enables use of 5V gates as an input from an external source to a dedicated jack below the current KBD CV input, these now fully opening the AR/ADSR envelopes.
Full "strength" gates and triggers from this input made available at the gate and trigger jacks for use as you see fit....


Brilliant!
elmegil
That is very cool. I expect I'll be able to follow your description better when my parts finally show up, but if not I may pester you to clarify some stuff I'm not sure I get in how things are connected....
rockwoofstone
elmegil wrote:
That is very cool. I expect I'll be able to follow your description better when my parts finally show up, but if not I may pester you to clarify some stuff I'm not sure I get in how things are connected....


No problem - just give me a shout with any questions.
jbdiver
I'm still struggling to identify the problem with the AD portion of my ADSR. RECAP: The sustain and release seem to work find. The attack slider has no effect on the signal. The decay slider seems to control the attack. I traced most of the ADSR circuit and recorded the voltages on most of the transistors while the system was powered, but no gate/trigger signal was present. Could some kind wiggler with a working ADSR check these voltage readings? I'm at a loss as to where to start troubleshooting.

rockwoofstone
jbdiver wrote:
I'm still struggling to identify the problem with the AD portion of my ADSR. RECAP: The sustain and release seem to work find. The attack slider has no effect on the signal. The decay slider seems to control the attack. I traced most of the ADSR circuit and recorded the voltages on most of the transistors while the system was powered, but no gate/trigger signal was present. Could some kind wiggler with a working ADSR check these voltage readings? I'm at a loss as to where to start troubleshooting.



Given your previous description, I'd check first of all that you've got 0V at the point the signal goes into ADSR-Q1, and at ADSR-R21 (check the schematics for the details on these), and when you feed a pulse in (i.e. press the button), you get ~10V at both these points.

From there, follow the schematic, and step from component to component looking for the point at which the signal ceases to appear in any meaningful way. Given it's the trigger line which sounds like it's the problem, I suspect you'll find the problem somewhere onwards from ADSR-Q1, but worth checking both routes anyway just to be sure.
Monobass
rockwoofstone wrote:
Summary of modification:

Enables use of 5V gates as an input from an external source to a dedicated jack below the current KBD CV input, these now fully opening the AR/ADSR envelopes.
Full "strength" gates and triggers from this input made available at the gate and trigger jacks for use as you see fit.


applause
tojpeters
Can you post a PDF of the graphics/text for the 5V gate input,or let me know what font you used? Thanks.
fuzzbass
I was trying to play the synth from the keyboard, while gating it from the S/H. The CV bus went into low frequency oscillation, "motorboating". After a bit of head scratching, I found: my Kenton Pro Solo outputs only connect internally to ground via the Gate output. When I cabled that out and only touched the sleeve to any exposed ground point on the TTSH, the cv bus snapped to attention. I guess Kenton did this to avoid ground loops.
fuzzbass
My panel arrived with little bumps in the middle of all the slider channels. This is probably an inevitable consequence of the machining process. After I put everything together, I found these work just like detents in the sliders, and I don't want to deal with this forever. I am going to take the panel off ONE more time, and file these out.
sduck
Let us know how that goes. That was one of the big complaints Guido had, and he wants me to find a fix. I'm afraid filing it isn't going to look great - maybe there's some other option.

Ok, this is totally overkill, but I had speaker baffles made by Front Panel Express. 4mm thick, and they didn't really cost that much. And they look a ton better than anything else I would have probably come up with...

flts
fuzzbass wrote:
My panel arrived with little bumps in the middle of all the slider channels. This is probably an inevitable consequence of the machining process. After I put everything together, I found these work just like detents in the sliders, and I don't want to deal with this forever. I am going to take the panel off ONE more time, and file these out.


I have this issue as well - as the alignment of sliders is not 100% perfect (they tend to be just a fraction of millimeter too left in the holes), there are little bumps in travel of quite a few of the sliders. Not all of them but enough of them that it isn't just one or two outliers.

It kind of feels like some of it may be even due to the powder coating / painting process... I think you might be able to get rid of these with no major cosmetic damage with careful filing, using a really thin file - or perhaps by just using the sliders for a while so the bumps wear off. Unless it's really the steel material that's in the way. In any case, it's not bad enough for me to bother fixing for now.

I calibrated the stuff that requires reaching to the inner trimmers (VCO2 triangle/sine stuff and internal clock calibration) and closed the case for now for today. Unless there are any major issues, I'll just calibrate the remaining things (tracking, etc.) tomorrow and then move the case to my music desk and start making a lot of noise.
Heavy Metal Kid
fuzzbass wrote:
My panel arrived with little bumps in the middle of all the slider channels. This is probably an inevitable consequence of the machining process. After I put everything together, I found these work just like detents in the sliders, and I don't want to deal with this forever. I am going to take the panel off ONE more time, and file these out.


I have a couple of those too. Will probably file them down, sometime.
rockwoofstone
tojpeters wrote:
Can you post a PDF of the graphics/text for the 5V gate input,or let me know what font you used? Thanks.


Alas, it's nothing more complicated than a Brother labelling machine! Does the job though hihi

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brother-PT1000-P-Touch-Labelling-System/dp/B00 030J17K
rockwoofstone
sduck wrote:
Let us know how that goes. That was one of the big complaints Guido had, and he wants me to find a fix. I'm afraid filing it isn't going to look great - maybe there's some other option.


I've been contemplating filing as well. Looking at it though, the bumps are most prominent on the internal edge, so careful filing may be OK and not visible. One of my sliders slots was damaged on the back side, and tidying that up doesn't dhow on the front, so it may be OK. I'll see if it gets on my nerves too much, and give it a go if it does...
ultravox
sduck wrote:

Ok, this is totally overkill, but I had speaker baffles made by Front Panel Express. 4mm thick, and they didn't really cost that much. And they look a ton better than anything else I would have probably come up with...



Hey that's nice! Wish I'd done that.
Cablebasher
Hey ultravox,

How much were those speaker covers at FPE?

Also. Would you be prepared to shares the Fpe file?

I would definitely get these for mine. Nice and easy.

Everything I think I have everything for this build something else pops up.
fuzzbass
flts wrote:
It kind of feels like some of it may be even due to the powder coating / painting process... I think you might be able to get rid of these with no major cosmetic damage with careful filing, using a really thin file - or perhaps by just using the sliders for a while so the bumps wear off. Unless it's really the steel material that's in the way. In any case, it's not bad enough for me to bother fixing for now.


Previously, I had to file all of the slide switch openings just to make them fit and operate.

From the look of it I estimate this an artifact of the machining process. If you cut a channel with two strokes, each starting at the opposite end and meeting in the middle, it would result in this. As the cutting bit moves in a particular direction, it will be pulled slightly into the work on one side. The effect will be greater with steel than aluminum, because its harder and therefore grabs the bit more. When shaping wood with a router, you always have to compensate for this same effect.

The channels don't need to be dead flat, they just need to have the sharp little bump removed from some of them so the slider does not hang up on it. When I file these, I will work from the rear of the panel, to reduce the possibility of a slip and scratch incident. I don't see much point in trying to touch up the resulting exposed metal because friction with the sliders will probably remove the touch up soon. Because this is steel, it won't be all that visible.
Altitude909
sduck wrote:
Let us know how that goes. That was one of the big complaints Guido had, and he wants me to find a fix. I'm afraid filing it isn't going to look great - maybe there's some other option.

Ok, this is totally overkill, but I had speaker baffles made by Front Panel Express. 4mm thick, and they didn't really cost that much. And they look a ton better than anything else I would have probably come up with...



You should have laser cut those out of MDF, would have cost $10
ultravox
Hey Cablebasher, this is sduck's design. Hopefully he's feeling charitable and will share. hihi

Cablebasher wrote:
Hey ultravox,

How much were those speaker covers at FPE?

Also. Would you be prepared to shares the Fpe file?

I would definitely get these for mine. Nice and easy.

Everything I think I have everything for this build something else pops up.
fuzzbass
sduck wrote:
Ok, this is totally overkill, but I had speaker baffles made by Front Panel Express. 4mm thick, and they didn't really cost that much. And they look a ton better than anything else I would have probably come up with...


Those look spiffy! Here's to sduck making the insides look a good as the outside. I made baffles using quarter inch craft plywood from the hobby store and finished them in flat black spray enamel. I have the luxury of some woodworking equipment here, so I was able to make three inch round cutouts - a somewhat tricky cut.
Altitude909
If anyone is interested, here is the Ponoko file for the speaker housings, 2 sets (4 pcs) are $15 out of the 1/4" MDF

http://misw.us/SpeakSpacer.eps
scribble744
Altitude909 wrote:
If anyone is interested, here is the Ponoko file for the speaker housings, 2 sets (4 pcs) are $15 out of the 1/4" MDF

http://misw.us/SpeakSpacer.eps


That's great thanks! Is this through Front Panel Express?

Oh never mind...I found Ponoko...that's great thanks!!!
Altitude909
scribble744 wrote:
Altitude909 wrote:
If anyone is interested, here is the Ponoko file for the speaker housings, 2 sets (4 pcs) are $15 out of the 1/4" MDF

http://misw.us/SpeakSpacer.eps


That's great thanks! Is this through Front Panel Express?

Oh never mind...I found Ponoko...that's great thanks!!!


Ponoko (US/World)/Outfab(US)/Formular (.de)
flts
Has any of you yet compared what kind of difference the baffles make in practise in this case? Might cut some myself eventually if they're night vs day difference in how the speakers sound compared to mounting with standoffs (where the end result is perfectly OK but easier to get nasty resonances with enough volume)

Another question: has anyone successfully trimmed the exponential gain in VCA section with the instructions in the manual? At best I get complete cancellation at around 5/6 of the exp control gain by using the ADSR with sustain level at max... I can only get the cancellation point lower from there. With the exponential control fader at maximum there is no change no matter how I adjust the trimmer. Linear gain is OK. I'm wondering if something is wrong in my build, or if the cal instructions just don't work 1:1 and the actual exp control input has more gain in TTSH for some reason.

FWIW, I decided to repurpose the multiples in the panel as outputs for MIDImplant MIDI/CV interface I installed (two pairs of CV/gate outputs). Just because they were conveniently there and life's too short not to use Stackcables. The MIDImplant seems to be a really good solution for midifying the TTSH so far.
rockwoofstone
flts wrote:
Another question: has anyone successfully trimmed the exponential gain in VCA section with the instructions in the manual? At best I get complete cancellation at around 5/6 of the exp control gain by using the ADSR with sustain level at max... I can only get the cancellation point lower from there. With the exponential control fader at maximum there is no change no matter how I adjust the trimmer. Linear gain is OK. I'm wondering if something is wrong in my build, or if the cal instructions just don't work 1:1 and the actual exp control input has more gain in TTSH for some reason.


This was bugging me, and in the end, I managed to get cancellation at the top of the slider range by replacing the 220K resistor next to the trimmer with a much smaller one. It was a case of trial and error, but in the end, I think around 2K got me what I wanted. YMMV!
flts
rockwoofstone wrote:
This was bugging me, and in the end, I managed to get cancellation at the top of the slider range by replacing the 220K resistor next to the trimmer with a much smaller one. It was a case of trial and error, but in the end, I think around 2K got me what I wanted. YMMV!


Thanks for confirming I'm not just going crazy! Might have to experiment with changing / paralleling that resistor if I start losing my sleep over this. I don't think it's a big issue for me though as I suppose that just means that the maximum gain for exp modulation will be a bit too much / more than intended. Of course it also means you have to be more careful with pushing up the exp mod, since it's easy to overdrive something that way now.

I wonder if it's as intended or if there's a misprint in the schematics / PCB / whatever? Didn't have patience to trace/compare the TTSH schematics to the original ones in this case...
sduck
Yea, that exponential calibration had me a bit worried, but it seemed to work fine even though I couldn't adjust it according to the manual.

Those speaker baffles were something like 25$ each - didn't know about the ponoko route before, just did what I'm set up already to do. I almost went the plywood route, but my tools don't really afford precise circles of this size. I'll definitely try the ponoko method next - I need more of these anyway. Do they do them in black? edit - just looked at that file - I would change that so they're a little wider - I'd want to cover all the unused holes, otherwise they're just spacers. 2 instead of 4 is still cheaper than the FPE version!

Here's the fpd file in case anyone's interested.
mangros
I set about all the slider slots with a nail file from the rear side of the panel.

It was good enough - the protrusions seem to be mostly paint and I didn't really expose much metal. All sliders run smoothly now.
Monobass
Thonk Rare Parts Kit back in stock

http://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ttsh-rare-parts-kit-round-2/

lintfresh
Monobass wrote:
Thonk Rare Parts Kit back in stock



Ordered the shit out of that kit, Steve. Thanks for doing all the hard work to make it available again! thumbs up
Monobass
you're welcome!... it was a real battle this time... but I won Jedi
Vcs3
I could use some "total beginner" help to test the VCOs.
VCO1 tested ok but I don't know the steps for testing VCO2 and VCO3.

1) Where do I apply +15V for VCO2 and 3?
2) Do I need to power VCO1 when testing for example VCO2?
3) What is the expected signal I should see on my oscilloscope for VCO2 and 3?

Thanks! help
sduck
1) apply the +15v to the same end of the similarly placed 220K resistor in both VCO2 and VCO3

2) No. You just need to power the one you're testing. Although it won't hurt to power the other ones also.

3) Similar signals for the saw outs, the pulse outs will have really short peaks instead of evenly spaced ones like the square out of VCO1, the sine and triangle outs of VCO2 will look like... well, sines and triangles, sort of - the sines are really just rounded out triangles, so don't worry if it's not perfect at this point, there are still some trimmers to calibrate to get things perfect (or as close to perfect as you're going to get).
ultravox
Hey sduck thanks for the offer. I ended up going with Altitude909's version from Ponoko and ordered them out of cork. The cork was 3mm thick and since the design was for 4 baffles I'll double them up to get the needed clearance. I used speaker grill cloth to cover the holes on the front panel so none of it will be seen.

sduck wrote:

Those speaker baffles were something like 25$ each - didn't know about the ponoko route before, just did what I'm set up already to do. I almost went the plywood route, but my tools don't really afford precise circles of this size. I'll definitely try the ponoko method next - I need more of these anyway. Do they do them in black? edit - just looked at that file - I would change that so they're a little wider - I'd want to cover all the unused holes, otherwise they're just spacers. 2 instead of 4 is still cheaper than the FPE version!

Here's the fpd file in case anyone's interested.
elmegil
I just ordered from ponoko out of 6.4mm MDF. To get 3 pairs I had to get 4 pair, if someone is interested in my extra pair, send PM and I'll ship it to you for 1/4 of my cost + a little bit of shipping.

Many thanks Altitude909!

Edit: the extra pair are now on hold, thanks!
Vcs3
sduck wrote:
1) apply the +15v to the same end of the similarly placed 220K resistor in both VCO2 and VCO3

2) No. You just need to power the one you're testing. Although it won't hurt to power the other ones also.

3) Similar signals for the saw outs, the pulse outs will have really short peaks instead of evenly spaced ones like the square out of VCO1, the sine and triangle outs of VCO2 will look like... well, sines and triangles, sort of - the sines are really just rounded out triangles, so don't worry if it's not perfect at this point, there are still some trimmers to calibrate to get things perfect (or as close to perfect as you're going to get).


Brilliant! Thanks for clarifying!
satindas
I've been playing around with the Ken Stone Gate to Trigger circuit as I plan to use it in the way suggested by rockwolfstone (nice mod thumbs up) and I have found that the diode in the Ken Stone circuit removes the negative pulse at the end of the gate. Now I'm wondering if this pulse might also be used as a trigger (like the "Neg Out" on the Oakley VRG). My plan was to invert the pulses and apply them to a duplicate of the comparator section to derive the neg trigger. I've tried tapping from the nodes before and after the 47k to feed the new section but it just messes up the pos trigger. Can anyone help to get this right as I think it would be a handy feature for the cost of another LM358, a couple of resistors and a jack. Here's some pics to clarify:



and here with the diode (D2) removed you can see the neg pulse at the end of the gate.



I've got a layout done for the basic mod but it would be nice to include this too if anyone can help turn that negative pulse into a positive trigger.
fuzzbass
The slot filing went well, the detents are gone. I ran a sharpie through the slots, and the exposed metal is not conspicuous.

Yesterday was spent in the workshop finishing up my enclosure, results below. The 1U empty slot will eventually be populated with an aux panel supporting some complementary stuff: Oakley MidiDAC, CGS Gate>Trigger, Gate conditioner, MFOS LFO, mults, jack converters.

Minor drama yesterday; one of the slider LEDs went missing. There was a good bit of searching until I found it. If anyone is making a survival kit, I recommend adding some of these. They pop out very easily!

Time to sit back, crank it up and piss off the neighbors.

[img][/img]
flts
I'm calling mine finished now, calibrated yesterday and spent a few hours playing around with it with a friend. There are still minor weird things such as the noise to the left speaker issue and too high VCA exp mod gain, but nothing so serious that I'd really want to open the case and start going through it.



Added some more pics of the finished synth in case in the end of my project gallery: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2uw82k8igqzfzyo/YWHa9Y-aqs
ultravox
Hi, could you use a bridge rectifier in place of D2? What software is that?

satindas wrote:
I've been playing around with the Ken Stone Gate to Trigger circuit as I plan to use it in the way suggested by rockwolfstone (nice mod thumbs up) and I have found that the diode in the Ken Stone circuit removes the negative pulse at the end of the gate. Now I'm wondering if this pulse might also be used as a trigger (like the "Neg Out" on the Oakley VRG). My plan was to invert the pulses and apply them to a duplicate of the comparator section to derive the neg trigger. I've tried tapping from the nodes before and after the 47k to feed the new section but it just messes up the pos trigger. Can anyone help to get this right as I think it would be a handy feature for the cost of another LM358, a couple of resistors and a jack. Here's some pics to clarify:



and here with the diode (D2) removed you can see the neg pulse at the end of the gate.



I've got a layout done for the basic mod but it would be nice to include this too if anyone can help turn that negative pulse into a positive trigger.
ultravox
Both of your builds look fantastic! You guys have given us something to aspire to! applause

Cheers!
kroffe
Did this little mod to my TTSH in order to being able to externally clock the electronic switch that orginally is pre-wired to internal clock:
desoldered the junction between R375 (10k) and R376 (22k) and connected them to point 18 on the normalised jack for clock in. In this way I'm able to externally clock the electronic switch at the same time as I'm externally trigging the S/H.
Highly recommended! thumbs up
elmegil
satindas wrote:

I've got a layout done for the basic mod but it would be nice to include this too if anyone can help turn that negative pulse into a positive trigger.


The "brute force" way I would try is to take that point to an inverting buffer (to turn it into a positive pulse) and run that to another comparator.
satindas
ultravox wrote:
Hi, could you use a bridge rectifier in place of D2? What software is that?


Hi ultravox, I think a bridge rectifier would make both pulses positive but then how would you then separate them for start and end...? The software is Circuit Wizard. thumbs up

elmegil wrote:
The "brute force" way I would try is to take that point to an inverting buffer (to turn it into a positive pulse) and run that to another comparator.


Hi elmegil, this is essentially what I did using another LM358 but it destroyed the original start trigger pulse. I need to play around a bit more .
satindas
Sorted!




10V gate plus start and end triggers. I'm not gonna use the multiple jacks for this but rather build it into another panel to sit alongside the Oakley MidiDAC.

I've never done this before but if there is interest I'd be happy to do a run of boards. I normally etch my own with good results but it would be nice to have this done professionally.

I'll post the layout when its done for feedback.
sealion
A trigger converter board would be useful to anyone trying to match older high V gate gear generally and might even suit a midi to cv standalone box.
elmegil
That's excellent smile

Can anyone who has theirs already comment on whether there's room next to the mult to add a second column of 4 jacks that could be used for this? Yes, I know, drilling on the panel and all that, but I want to think about alternatives that integrate the gates without sacrificing the mult...
flts
elmegil wrote:
Can anyone who has theirs already comment on whether there's room next to the mult to add a second column of 4 jacks that could be used for this? Yes, I know, drilling on the panel and all that, but I want to think about alternatives that integrate the gates without sacrificing the mult...


Yes, you could fit another row of 4 (or even more) jacks next to the multiples / kbd cv jack, you'd just have to drill on top of the "multiples" legend. There's ample space between the multiple row and speaker body / mounting spot in any case. Other options I can see in case you're hesitant in doing that:

- Drill & install a row of jacks next to the stereo phones output and power switch, sort of as a shifted mirror image of the multiples. There's space there as well.
- Drill some jack holes or a little recessed connector panel to whatever case you're using
- If you're doing a custom case, add something like 1U high utility strip above or below the TTSH panel
- Buy some Stackcables for patching like I did so you don't really need mults anymore hihi
elmegil
If I'm going to drill the panel, perhaps the mirror image thing is a good idea.

I have stackable bananas, but no stackable patch cords. smile
nickster
Having finished my case now I started out on the pcbs. Taking the heads up here I started with the smd caps first on the osc boards. Well having not done smd parts before I managed to mess up a bit and have one of these on the iron too long. I'm guessing I've fried one of these but have not tested this yet. My question is are these caps likely to fry if held on the iron too long? I'm hoping no but preparing for yes. But I thought I'd better ask before I go ahead and order more of this tiny tots.
ultravox
Has anyone else found their noise generator to be...rather noisy? Mine sounds raspy and distorted, kind of overdriven. The BOM installs a 2N5172 in the noise generator but it looks like Zthee has revised his website with this statement:

"2N5172 x 1 Should be selected for maximum noise. But I’ve found some 2N5179 to be too noisy! Which will cause clipping and distortion. Any other transistor will probably do, I’ve tried BC547 and it worked actually better… (Beware the pinout though, the 2N5179 is BCE and not CBE/EBC as most other transistors)."

What are you guys using in your noise generators? Also the 2n5179 has a 4th lead for the case which isn't mentioned in the build. Typo?
sduck
This confuses me. What is this 2N5179 that is suddenly being presented to us? It's not in the BOM. I used a 2N5172 like a good boy and it works fine. Unless that is what is causing the (very minor) noise bleed into the left speaker amp?

BTW, pin 4 of the 2N5179 is just a connection to the metal case, wouldn't be used in this application.

Now I want to get some of these and try them out. But they cost like 10 times as much as the 2N5172...

Edit: I contacted zthee about this, it's a typo. He uses the 2N5179s in the TKB, and got them confused I guess.
ultravox
Thanks for contacting zthee on this. Here's another question about the noise generator. The TTSH and original 2600 schematics differ in how the 2N5172 is connected. The ground is connected to the base on the TTSH but the 2600 schematic shows the ground on the collector. I'm wondering if the leads should be swapped? Any thoughts?

TTSH Noise Generator


Arp 2600 Noise Generator
flts
elmegil wrote:
If I'm going to drill the panel, perhaps the mirror image thing is a good idea.

I have stackable bananas, but no stackable patch cords. smile


To clarify, what I mean is these: http://www.tiptopaudio.com/stack.php ... 3,5mm stackable cables. I had a few of them around from the remnants of my old Eurorack system and realized that's a good excuse to repurpose the multiples on the TTSH instead of having to drill new holes lol
Heavy Metal Kid
ultravox wrote:
Here's another question about the noise generator. The TTSH and original 2600 schematics differ in how the 2N5172 is connected. The ground is connected to the base on the TTSH but the 2600 schematic shows the ground on the collector. I'm wondering if the leads should be swapped? Any thoughts?


Interesting! Would like to hear more. I have the leak into the left speaker problem, maybe this can fix it? Won't have time to test until after easter, though.
nickster
So I'm going to replace the SMD caps. Quick question, will 50volt 100nf also work or must the cap be 25V 100nf? Trying to avoid a Mouser order for 6 SMD caps. (the postage will cripple it.)
latigid on
25 V is the minimum (higher is okay). Make sure that the package will fit on the pads!

I suggest a healthy amount of flux or a (cheap) SMT rework station for all surface mount, especially caps as they are the ones likely to fracture with heat stress.
nickster
Thanks for that! I'll be replacing the SMD Caps with this then

https://www.elfa.se/elfa3~se_en/elfa/init.do?item=65-767-06&toc=18803

I'll order a whole bunch now just in case. At least now I have a working method for mounting these having learnt the hard way. sad banana
fuzzbass
flts wrote:
I'm calling mine finished now, calibrated yesterday and spent a few hours playing around with it with a friend. There are still minor weird things such as the noise to the left speaker issue and too high VCA exp mod gain, but nothing so serious that I'd really want to open the case and start going through it.



Added some more pics of the finished synth in case in the end of my project gallery: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2uw82k8igqzfzyo/YWHa9Y-aqs


Very beautiful. Is that birch?
fuzzbass
ultravox wrote:
Thanks for contacting zthee on this. Here's another question about the noise generator. The TTSH and original 2600 schematics differ in how the 2N5172 is connected. The ground is connected to the base on the TTSH but the 2600 schematic shows the ground on the collector. I'm wondering if the leads should be swapped? Any thoughts?

TTSH Noise Generator


Arp 2600 Noise Generator


The TTSH version is the conventional way to get randomness from an NPN (with the collector dangling). I was trying to find information about selecting transistors for noise, and I came across a lot of discussion about how to get the most randomness possible (making an easily reproducible random noise/number source - if that makes any sense). This seems to be of great interest to people who while away the hours thinking about prime numbers.

Exactly what, then, is getting amplified? Does the collector lead become an antenna, picking up cosmic background radiation? Only reason I ask is that on my synth, the noise generator definitely sounds like echos of the Big Bang.
elmegil
ultravox wrote:
Thanks for contacting zthee on this. Here's another question about the noise generator. The TTSH and original 2600 schematics differ in how the 2N5172 is connected. The ground is connected to the base on the TTSH but the 2600 schematic shows the ground on the collector. I'm wondering if the leads should be swapped? Any thoughts?

TTSH Noise Generator


Arp 2600 Noise Generator


I'm willing to bet that is a mistake on the original schematic. Open collector is the normal noise generation case.
ultravox
I went ahead and ordered 5 more 2N5172's to try in the noise generator. I also ordered the BC547 to boot...just in case. I figured while zthee was troubleshooting the noise generator he must have also verified his schematic was correct.

Indeed - open collector seems to be the common choice for noise generation. (You learn something new every day) oops

So yours sounds like the Big Bang? Mine sounds like tasmanian devils fighting over lunch! lol
Sorcerer
Hi everyone !

Here are some pics of my TTSH (that can be added to the "built with thonk rare parts" list)

No speakers and no reverb at this time.


Luap
^ Wow thats way cool Sorcerer!! I plan to do something very similar. IE have a row of Eurorack along the bottom. Although my current plan is for them to stick out flat, rather than upright. We'll see though.
Anyway, love the build! Congrats 8_)
flts
Sorcerer, that's an awesome idea as well, congrats!

fuzzbass wrote:
Very beautiful. Is that birch?


Thanks! Yes, it's birch... My father made most of the casework - planing, sawing doweling, gluing etc., I just did the antique wax finish, drilling & fitting etc. myself. He found just enough 50+ year old flamey birch material from his workshop storage that we were able to use it for everything but the back panel, which is Finnish cherry.
nickster
Replaced the burnt out caps now thanks to the guys at ELFA even picked up the knob, standoffs etc and was offered a cup of coffee! Made me feel glad that I had fUcked up the SMD stuff! Rockin' Banana!
Love the builds by the way guys, the Finnish Birch has my vote for cases as I'm a sucker for natural wood. thumbs up thumbs up But these are all looking great so everyones a winner I guess.
rockwoofstone
Just realised I hadn't posted a photo of mine. Nothing interesting on the case front, but all working nevertheless...

ultravox
rockwoofstone wrote:
Just realised I hadn't posted a photo of mine. Nothing interesting on the case front, but all working nevertheless...


You got her patched up nicely and she's looking good! thumbs up
jbdiver
After a week of trying to troubleshoot the ADSR section, I finally got it sorted out. A 47pf cap was soldered in the 10nf location. d'oh! This mistake was not easy to find. Now I just need to connect the spring reverb and do final testing and calibration of the unit. The case was completed yesterday.
effegee
etaoin wrote:

First is noise bleeding into the left amp. This is high frequency noise so sounds like cross talk. It goes away if you turn down noise level or lower the noise 'pitch'.


I came up with a fix to reduce the amount of noise heard through the left speaker.

First I connected the 470r resistor near the amp/noise section to the unlabeled solder hole:


Then I shielded the electrolytic cap at the bottom of the left amp section. I did this by wrapping some desoldering braid around a similar-sized cap and soldered it in a few spots to make a tube, which I then covered with some shrink tubing. I soldered a wire to the bottom end of the tube:



I slipped the tube over the cap and soldered the wire to the free ground hole, making sure to not contact the shield to the cap's leads:



It significantly reduced the noise, though it didn't completely eliminate it.

Now if someone can tell me how to eliminate the oscillator bleed through that can be heard through the speakers, especially when the OSC's are cranked up to higher frequencies confused
nickster
Nice fix D! It's peanut butter jelly time!
satindas
effegee wrote:

I came up with a fix to reduce the amount of noise heard through the left speaker.


Well done effegee thumbs up Could you explain a little about how you arrived at this solution. If there are going to be any modifications to a second run of boards this might point the way to a design fix...zthee!
latigid on
With all of these confuddlements I'm going to skip the speakers and mount any mods to the grills instead. Too much hassle with noise, TDA amps, standoffs etc. and I can't see myself using them anyway.

But, it's certainly good to work on fixes if you have the components already!

As a suggestion, could those with a beefy power supply try to apply power to the amp sections directly (DC-DC or home made)? Maybe there's a ground loop or offset somewhere that arises from tapping the power before the converter?
guillaume10
hi,

also finish mine last evening,
I will try to calibrate it today.

just a small problem to fix :
the left volume slider work for the right speaker
and the right volume slider work for the left speaker... lol

I have used also the thonk rare parts.
M-Circus
I've been struggling for over a week with none of the oscillators outputting the waveforms they were supposed to. Bashing my head, troubleshooting all possible solutions. Checked every single resistor's color code this morning. Couldn't find anything wrong.

Turned out, my oscilloscope's channel settings was wrong. Good god... d'oh!

Anyway, for the most part outputting what it's supposed to now. The square wave of oscillator one looks a bit pulse wavy to me, but I guess that might be another tweak (either on the oscilloscope or the oscillator). Also having trouble getting a sine out from the leg of one of the capacitors on oscillator 2, but these are all minor troubles now.

Yay! lol
effegee
M-Circus wrote:
The square wave of oscillator one looks a bit pulse wavy to me


Try turning the trimmer labeled "Symmetry" on the front of the PCB. This adjusts the pulse width.
jbdiver
I noticed that the noise in the left speaker gets significantly worse when I plug in headphones. Anyone else seeing this? I wonder if the proposed noise fix addresses this.
effegee
satindas wrote:


Well done effegee thumbs up Could you explain a little about how you arrived at this solution?


I noticed that if I placed my finger between that electrolytic cap and the pads of the noise section sliders that the amount of noise heard through the speakers increased. So I figured if I shielded the cap, the noise bleed would decrease.


Quote:
With all of these confuddlements I'm going to skip the speakers and mount any mods to the grills instead. Too much hassle with noise, TDA amps, standoffs etc. and I can't see myself using them anyway.


Honestly, it's not that big of a deal. The noise issues aren't that bad. We are just spoiled by the clean digital signals we've grown accustomed to. I came up with the noise bleed fix before I even calibrated and played the TTSH (frankly, because I have perfectionist tendencies and see a "problem" as more of a challenge to find a solution). The little amount of noise heard in the silence of a (bedroom) studio is completely drowned out by the TTSH's hot audio signal coming through the speakers when it's played. The speakers really add to the spirit of the 2600, so don't let a little noise turn you off.
effegee
jbdiver wrote:
I noticed that the noise in the left speaker gets significantly worse when I plug in headphones. Anyone else seeing this? I wonder if the proposed noise fix addresses this.


To reduce this noise, use two-conductor shielded cable from the headphone jack to the amp sections and solder the shield wire (foil) to the ground of the jack.
flts
I didn't do anything special to speaker noise thing because, to be honest, it isn't very bad and I'm not a perfectionist - I like to build things up to the point when they are solid, functional and fun and forgive any quirks with designs unless they're like "huge amount of transformer hum on the line output" type dealbreakers.

When the headphones are plugged in (and speakers disengaged) the left speaker noise is quite loud though, so I might just replace the cable with a shielded one there at some point. No hurry though, since it doesn't affect normal use either.

I do wholeheartedly recommend installing the speakers & speaker amps as well, they make a brilliant instrument even more fun. You'll pretty much always want to use the actual line outputs for recording (at least I do), but when patching / fooling around it's super fun to have the speakers.

Quote:
As a suggestion, could those with a beefy power supply try to apply power to the amp sections directly (DC-DC or home made)? Maybe there's a ground loop or offset somewhere that arises from tapping the power before the converter?


I'm doing it pretty much like that, not using a separate wall wart & DC-DC but powering everything with a single bipolar linear PSU. I distribute everything (including speaker amp power) via the main PCB though, but everything is certainly referenced to same ground and the +- lines are the same.
effegee
flts wrote:
When the headphones are plugged in (and speakers disengaged) the left speaker noise is quite loud though, so I might just replace the cable with a shielded one there at some point.


I highly recommend it. It made a big difference for me.
satindas
effegee wrote:

To reduce this noise, use two-conductor shielded cable from the headphone jack to the amp sections and solder the shield wire (foil) to the ground of the jack.

+1 thumbs up
satindas
woops ! double post... that'll be the Blandford Flyer meh
M-Circus
effegee wrote:
M-Circus wrote:
The square wave of oscillator one looks a bit pulse wavy to me


Try turning the trimmer labeled "Symmetry" on the front of the PCB. This adjusts the pulse width.


Thanks. Will do with time.
satindas
I'm going to be powering from a 1.5A Power one and I've been thinking about how to sort out the power switching.

Mains inlet is gonna be via a switched and fused C14 IEC but then.... how do you implement the front panel switch? Both + and - 15v lines need switching. So.. I'm thinking about using a DPDT DC relay such as this http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/non-latching-relays/4927218/

Can anyone advise about this... I've never used relays in a synth but it seems like it might be a good solution for those who are using linear supplys and would like to maintain the function of the front panel switch.

Cheers!
latigid on
Double pole switch between +/-15V output and the PCB?
satindas
latigid on wrote:
Double pole switch between +/-15V output and the PCB?


That's obviously the simplest and most straightforward solution but I've given up trying to find a double pole switch which will fit the existing front panel cut-out. A relay is the only way I can think of how to switch two lines with a single pole switch and for an extra few quid it's no big deal.
rekem1000
satindas wrote:
latigid on wrote:
Double pole switch between +/-15V output and the PCB?


That's obviously the simplest and most straightforward solution but I've given up trying to find a double pole switch which will fit the existing front panel cut-out. A relay is the only way I can think of how to switch two lines with a single pole switch and for an extra few quid it's no big deal.


No you want the switch between the mains power and the power supply, otherwise your power supply will always be on when plugged in.
gslug
satindas wrote:
latigid on wrote:
Double pole switch between +/-15V output and the PCB?


That's obviously the simplest and most straightforward solution but I've given up trying to find a double pole switch which will fit the existing front panel cut-out. A relay is the only way I can think of how to switch two lines with a single pole switch and for an extra few quid it's no big deal.


When I ordered my parts from Mouser, the switch specified in the BOM was backorderd. I got one of these instead: http://uk.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=DM62J12S205Qvirtualke y61170000virtualkey611-DM62J12S205Q. DPST and rated for 5A at 250V. I think it will fit the front panel, but I can't check as I'm still waiting for that....
roglok
gslug wrote:
satindas wrote:
latigid on wrote:
Double pole switch between +/-15V output and the PCB?


That's obviously the simplest and most straightforward solution but I've given up trying to find a double pole switch which will fit the existing front panel cut-out. A relay is the only way I can think of how to switch two lines with a single pole switch and for an extra few quid it's no big deal.


When I ordered my parts from Mouser, the switch specified in the BOM was backorderd. I got one of these instead: http://uk.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=DM62J12S205Qvirtualke y61170000virtualkey611-DM62J12S205Q. DPST and rated for 5A at 250V. I think it will fit the front panel, but I can't check as I'm still waiting for that....


it won't fit. the panel cutout for the C&K is 12.9mm wide (vs. 6.8mm for the NKK). of course you can use a file to accomodate for a wider switch...
gslug
roglok wrote:
gslug wrote:
satindas wrote:
latigid on wrote:
Double pole switch between +/-15V output and the PCB?


That's obviously the simplest and most straightforward solution but I've given up trying to find a double pole switch which will fit the existing front panel cut-out. A relay is the only way I can think of how to switch two lines with a single pole switch and for an extra few quid it's no big deal.


When I ordered my parts from Mouser, the switch specified in the BOM was backorderd. I got one of these instead: http://uk.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=DM62J12S205Qvirtualke y61170000virtualkey611-DM62J12S205Q. DPST and rated for 5A at 250V. I think it will fit the front panel, but I can't check as I'm still waiting for that....


it won't fit. the panel cutout for the C&K is 12.9mm wide (vs. 6.8mm for the NKK). of course you can use a file to accomodate for a wider switch...


Oh well! Looks like I'll be busy with the file. I was sure I looked at the dimensions on the respective datasheets, but obviously not! Dead Banana
adhmzaiusz
Hi, I have probably an end of the day baked question but... this is the last thing I need to do to before I power up and test my TTSH.

Looking at the wiring diagram, there is the "Auxiliary" gate and trig jacks shown in the wiring marked "not on box". Maybe I'm blind but I don't see any aux jacks labeled on the panel, are these optional or something?? Where do I connect the solder points to from the PCB? Any help would be great!
ultravox
adhmzaiusz wrote:
Looking at the wiring diagram, there is the "Auxiliary" gate and trig jacks shown in the wiring marked "not on box". Maybe I'm blind but I don't see any aux jacks labeled on the panel, are these optional or something?? Where do I connect the solder points to from the PCB? Any help would be great!


These are optional jacks so no worries. I'm using them to interface with MIDImplant for an internal MIDI solution.

I'm presuming the jacks are in reference to the Arp 2600's keyboard interface but I'm not 100% sure on this.

Cheers
satindas
rekem1000 wrote:

No you want the switch between the mains power and the power supply, otherwise your power supply will always be on when plugged in.


That's why I'll be installing one of these at the inlet.

gslug wrote:
. I think it will fit the front panel, but I can't check as I'm still waiting for that....

You're gonna have to cut or file out the front panel to get that one to fit gslug.
flts
I know this doesn't help much but I simply left the front panel power switch uninstalled because I didn't feel like drilling/filing the mounting hole any bigger. I mounted a power inlet with a proper mains switch to the back panel: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2uw82k8igqzfzyo/YWHa9Y-aqs#lh:null-IMG_0978 .JPG

As a good thing, I now also have some additional blank space in the front panel if I want to do any mods. As a bad thing, it doesn't look quite as finished and factory-made but that doesn't really bother me.

Otherwise I think enlarging the front panel hole (there should be enough space behind the panel for even quite a big mains switch!) would probably be the easiest way to go.

You could of course also use a relay, I'm just wondering where one would get the DC voltage required for switching from, since the function of that relay would be to block / allow the flow of mains power to the PSU which is the first point where you would get DC voltage out of in the system. I have no idea if there are any other complications / caveats.

edit: Oh, I might have just misunderstood you - do you mean you would have one switch for switching the mains power on / off from the PSU and another to switch the power from PSU to the synth on / off? In that case I suppose a DC relay would work, I just don't know if a two switch system would prove to be useful or not.
satindas
flts wrote:

Otherwise I think enlarging the front panel hole (there should be enough space behind the panel for even quite a big mains switch!) would probably be the easiest way to go.

After lots of searching (in vain) for a non-PCB mount relay with the correct coil voltage I think that this is the only option if you want to retain use of the front panel switch. Dremel time!
flts wrote:

edit: Oh, I might have just misunderstood you - do you mean you would have one switch for switching the mains power on / off from the PSU and another to switch the power from PSU to the synth on / off? In that case I suppose a DC relay would work, I just don't know if a two switch system would prove to be useful or not.

thumbs up That was exactly my intention. I admit that the usefulness of two switches might be questionable but I'd rather have a functioning switch than a dead one. So.... I'm thinking now about using the front panel switch to feed the amps.

BTW, Just this morning I finished up the main build (minus case) and I have to say, this thing freakin' rocks !!! I remember the first time I saw a real 2600 in the London Synthesizer Center ( in Manchester ! ) back in 1979. This is a dream come true. Thanks Zthee we're not worthy
flts
satindas wrote:
That was exactly my intention. I admit that the usefulness of two switches might be questionable but I'd rather have a functioning switch than a dead one. So.... I'm thinking now about using the front panel switch to feed the amps.


I was thinking of either installing an extra jack with a blanking plate there if I ever need more connectivity, or installing a switch and using it to switch some optional feature (osc sync?) on / off. Don't know yet, I've just left the switch out so far and blanked the on/off labels with pieces of black tape. Might be possible to enlarge the hole tidily with a nibbling tool or a Dremel as well.

Quote:
BTW, Just this morning I finished up the main build (minus case) and I have to say, this thing freakin' rocks !!! I remember the first time I saw a real 2600 in the London Synthesizer Center ( in Manchester ! ) back in 1979. This is a dream come true. Thanks Zthee we're not worthy


Yeah, I've all but forgotten to gush about this online but this IS pretty much the dream analog synth for me. I'm quite a bit younger than that (wasn't even born in 1979) but the sound, the features, the interface etc. are best ever -tm-.

I owned and loved Odyssey II for years and even before that thought that if I ever get rich the one synth I'll buy is a 2600. I was super excited when I realized I can actually afford one in form of a DIY clone, and whereas I was a bit scared it wouldn't live up to expectations while I was building, the end result proved me wrong. Thanks a lot Zthee and everyone who's helped with the build!
nick_s666
Hi All,
Am gathering parts for the Big Build. Can anyone point me at a suitable reverb tank, and power supply for the TTSH , please? (I'm in the UK)
Cheers
Nick
M-Circus
For the reverb, have a look here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=104192&start=0&postd ays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=ttsh+reverb
nick_s666
Cheers!
jbdiver
I finished up the calibration of my box today. Using a digital storage oscilloscope really made the process much easier. When I was following the calibration process for the ring modulator, I noticed that the POS NULL and NEG NULL pots didn't have any impact on the signal. Did anyone else notice this?
sduck
They made a difference with my first build calibration - it was quite easy to set them actually. Double check the connections and settings - you might have missed something?
satindas
jbdiver wrote:
When I was following the calibration process for the ring modulator, I noticed that the POS NULL and NEG NULL pots didn't have any impact on the signal. Did anyone else notice this?

Me too! I've not look at it with the scope yet but I hear no change at all when adjusting either of the trims. I checked with the scope during the build and its performing as expected, and it sounds great, so I'm not too worried.
flts
FWIW there was a noticeable audible change for me with adjusting the pos and neg null trimmers according to the cal instructions. The ring mod sounded great even before calibrated though, but all the trimmers did make a difference.
jbdiver
satindas wrote:

Me too! I've not look at it with the scope yet but I hear no change at all when adjusting either of the trims. I checked with the scope during the build and its performing as expected, and it sounds great, so I'm not too worried.


Yeah, it's working in the sense that it creates clangy metallic tones like I would expect. I can make the output on a scope look like a traditional ring mod signal by adjusting the sliders, but most of the time the signal doesn't look like a ring mod. I may have to compare it to other modular ring mods I own. The fact that the pos/neg trimmers have no impact on the signal in the scope has me wondering if it is truly working properly.
jbdiver
I rewired my headphone jack based on the error note in the build notes (switch tip and ring). However, now the speakers are backwards, the left slider controls the right speaker and vice versa. So in the original wiring instructions the headphone output is backwards, but in the updated instructions the speakers are backwards. seriously, i just don't get it What am I doing wrong?

BTW, I'm pretty convinced my ring mod is working properly. The neg/pos trim make slight changes to the signal in my scope. I can't really hear these changes though during calibration. The ring mod sounds good though. Also, I replaced my headphone wires with shielded cable grounded to the jack. Huge difference in noise reduction.
Nordcore
jbdiver wrote:
Also, I replaced my headphone wires with shielded cable grounded to the jack. Huge difference in noise reduction.


The noise generator is *not* a reverse biased transistors emitter-base diode with an amplifier, although the circuit looks similar at a first glance.

It's more a noise driven comparator: above 35Hz (4,7MOhm/10nF) the feedback path goes down, so the LM301 runs open loop. So it's just a bias regulation *below* audio.
The output of the transistor is similar to a Z-Diode (don't ask if Z or Zehner effect ... I always mix them up) with pretty low differential resistance, magnitudes below the 4,7MOhm.

I suspect some HF noise to be transmitted from this construction - and that might stray anywhere in the system.
So the cause of the headphone cable, picking up noise, might be the strong HF noise transmitter next to it.
satindas
jbdiver wrote:
I rewired my headphone jack based on the error note in the build notes (switch tip and ring). However, now the speakers are backwards, the left slider controls the right speaker and vice versa. So in the original wiring instructions the headphone output is backwards, but in the updated instructions the speakers are backwards. seriously, i just don't get it What am I doing wrong?


I've not got round to wiring up the headphone jack yet so I've got mini jumpers across the 2 pin headers which feed it. Look closely at the headphone jack socket and you can see how the tip and ring parts are normalled so that with no jack inserted the sigal returns to its respective 2 pin header . The tip of the jack should be Left and the ring is Right. To correct the error in the build notes you need to swap the tip with the ring AND the tip shunt with the ring shunt. ( I'm guessing you've only swapped the tip and ring) It should look like this :

fuzzbass
satindas wrote:
jbdiver wrote:
I rewired my headphone jack based on the error note in the build notes (switch tip and ring). However, now the speakers are backwards, the left slider controls the right speaker and vice versa. So in the original wiring instructions the headphone output is backwards, but in the updated instructions the speakers are backwards. seriously, i just don't get it What am I doing wrong?


I've not got round to wiring up the headphone jack yet so I've got mini jumpers across the 2 pin headers which feed it. Look closely at the headphone jack socket and you can see how the tip and ring parts are normalled so that with no jack inserted the sigal returns to its respective 2 pin header . The tip of the jack should be Left and the ring is Right. To correct the error in the build notes you need to swap the tip with the ring AND the tip shunt with the ring shunt. ( I'm guessing you've only swapped the tip and ring) It should look like this :



I can attest, I was at least one of those who brought this to Jon's attention. T/TN and R/RN pairs need to be reversed on the jack. Once this is done, it works as expected.

Also, this wired connection is a nice little antenna for picking up noise. You can see on the schematic that the power stage for the speakers follows the headphone output (j20/21). Stray signalling in these wires gets boosted by the TDA2030 and sent to the speakers. If this is your problem, you might see it not improve when you plug your headphones in because the TN and RN wires are still feeding the TDA2030. You can reduce but not eliminate the effect by tightly twisting the wires to the headphone jack. This can phase cancel some of the noise. If you run a ground wire in the bundle, that will soak up some more of the unwanted signal. You could also use coaxial cable (ex: RG-174), which would pick up less noise, but may degrade headphone performance, if you have some older cans (600-800ohm). The combination of low impedance headphones and higher capacitance coax cable leads to very perceptible low frequency suckiness. Most headphones these days are made with higher impedance for compatibility with modern music gadgets like iPhones, so