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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

F'ing Frac
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Fractional Rack Modules  
Author F'ing Frac
haricots
You know Frac is dieing when an Oakley Ring Mod sells for $48 (retails for $170) on Ebay. very frustrating

Granted, it's not a super popular module but I was hoping to get at least $100. Somebody got a really great deal I guess.

Bah, I should have just hung on to it.
Dragonslair
I know what you mean, I tried selling a bunch of the Frac stuff I built, and the final bids didn't even cover the cost of the front panels (good thing I put a reserve on them) now they are just sitting on a shelf in the basement. Once I sell the house and get moved, I'll look at making some 5u panels for the circuits, I've pretty much given up on Frac.
jenamu6
Why?

It's all small jacks?

It works?

so use it. thumbs up
e-grad
Yes, it seems to be a huge draw towards Euro lately.

The bright prospects of Blacet and Wiard 1200 are gone. However, I'm still happy with my Blacet and DIY stuff. Tinfoil Hat
scozbor
instant 15v compatibility with 5u modules will ensure frac survives i think.

blacet aint dead! GO BLACET

and there is some real interesting stuff going on in DIY right now!
SynthBaron
haricots wrote:
Bah, I should have just hung on to it.


You really have to put things out using Fixed Price in this economy, at least for a few weeks. It took a couple times getting burned on selling shit wayyyy to cheap to realize that.
Adam-V
I must be Mr Contrary!

I've been putting together a euro system for a number years now and have just started down the Frac path. The way things are going I'll have filled 2 Blacet racks by Christmas. I think the offerings of both formats complement each other rather nicely.

Cheers,
Adam-V
Babaluma
frac is certainly NOT dead or dying here.

what do you mean by saying the bright prospects of blacet have gone? gone where? they were still in business the last time i looked.

frac rules for me, and i way prefer its general aesthetic to euro. i actually hate euro, there i said it!
panda30y
Babaluma wrote:

frac rules for me, and i way prefer its general aesthetic to euro. i actually hate euro, there i said it!
(hides)
don't anger the massive horde!
parasitk
Babaluma wrote:
i actually hate euro, there i said it!


I'm glad it's not just me! thumbs up

And although I sold a chunk of my Frac system, I love every module I kept. With bananas I love it even more. I don't think my setup has ever been this much fun!

I do worry about Blacet sometimes though. Every other manufacturer that has abandoned Frac has just refocused 100% Euro, but Blacet doesn't seem to have such plans.
flight
I guess I'll hop in here. Only three people signed up at AH for the Frac SoS wait list. I think the DIY leanings of Frac have made it a very difficult proposition for us small manufacturers.

Me? I actually think it is a pretty slick format; but anything that caters well to the homebrew crowd has historically gone out with a whimper (think Heathkit, Erector sets, etc.. Hell, I want some Lincoln Logs, those would make an AWESOME rack case!).

I want to help you guys out if I can, so I'm making another attempt: If I can get 30 prepaid orders, I will do a special run of the SoS in Frac - including banana jacks (with toggle switches for the switched jacks) if desired.
parasitk
That's awesome, but are there even 30 of us left? I have this feeling that so long as there are FoH barebones, there will be FoH Frac modules. Seems most people in the format are willing to do some DIY from time to time (and with the barebones packs, it's really minimal DIY!)
panda30y
Thanks for the support flight! I'd be down for a SOS in banana frac and would definitely prepay for one. I'm always willing to try to support small manufacturers, especially ones who build in frac.

But I think parasitk is right, I don't know if we still have 30 of us actively building frac still. And the barebones kits are so fantastic, that your modules will always be open to frac.

Although, with the recent sales of bugbrand modules, it seems that it sparked a bit of life back into the frac scene. We haven't had this many posts in the frac subforum over the past month since I was just browsing this forum over a year ago. So who knows, maybe the new guys will be gung ho and get some frac SOS's?
Babaluma
i'm in a weird position because i have finished my frac modular and am not currently looking for any other frac modules, but i would really hate to see the format die out. i've never been into d.i.y. either. dunno what i'm trying to say really? i guess i'd just be emotionally sad to see it go.

john blacet promised a new delay and a replacement for the quad mix/vca a long time ago, but there has been no news since. i hope they are doing ok. i have never had anything but the best service from john and blacet.
e-grad
Babaluma wrote:
what do you mean by saying the bright prospects of blacet have gone?


Obviously something totally different than you have seemingly understood. eek!

I APOLOGIZE FOR THIS! It was absolutely not my intention to claim that Blacet as a manufacturer is or will be dead any time. Honestly I'm a Blacet fan boy. I'm not a native speaker and every now and then a linguistic accident occurs. d'oh!

However I did not write about the "prospects of Blacet" but
e-grad wrote:
"of Blacet and Wiard
That "and" actually made my point since I was and still am very happy with my Blacet and (few) Wiards and have sold almost all my Euro stuff. w00t

Others seem to go the other way round. A few years ago you hardly come across 2nd hand Blacet stuff which is now quite common. Off course there are several reasons for this: economy, there are more Fracs around etc.

Wiard in Euro and stuff like the Math and QMMG make this format more interesting to people who I think would have drawn their attention to Frac a few years ago. As perceived by Flight who's hardly selling Frac. I hope his posting made more clear what I mean by "prospects". A word which possibly has a connotation I'm not aware of.

I have 8 racks of Frac (still growing) opposed to 2 rows of Euro (not growing) . I am stronlgy biased towards Blacet ever since I've bought my first module from him. love

I probably was not wearing my tin foil hat which usually prevents me from such misunderstandings. Tinfoil Hat
DGTom
I always assumed Blacet made most sales thru kits, new product development does seem to be an issue tho, but, as it stands Blacet is one of the few firms offering a complete, put a bow on it, synthesis system... Frac is far more DIY friendly tho, cheap / deep racks, fixed panel sizes, yaddayaddayadda.

Maybe the SoS pre-sale notice should be posted over @ e-m... lots more fraccers there than here (& all the frac users here are much more un-assuming / loud than our euro brethren)

One thing is for sure; its a bad time to be selling frac modules... but, a freakin great time to be buyin em!
BugBrand
DGTom wrote:
One thing is for sure; its a bad time to be selling frac modules...


I disagree..!
DGTom
I did actually mean on the 2nd hand market - as per the OPs experiance... but; you don't count Tom! You're selling BugBrand modules, not Frac razz
Babaluma
ok e-grad got it! no worries!

i'd still really like to see the replacement for the quad mix/vca.
11ish
I also love frac, but one aspect of euro-modules that attracts people is that a lot of the new stuff that's coming out is really flat, and therefore nice to build into flat cases etc. Frac modules (at least the Blacet ones) tend to be rather deep. And large. So, one somewhat complete Frac-system will always be a really voluminous affair.

I'm going rather minimal now (not the musical genre), as i have confined myself to using only one small case with 2 x 3u modules and the 2u Wiard 311 New Controller. One Row Frac, one row Euro. To me that's the most flexible route to take. But i still have another fracrack and psu and a few modules that i might use in a second case one day... if I had more space and money to build a huge modular wall, i would definitely buy much more frac-stuff.

But i agree, it's somehow sad to see that only Euro seems to be the big thing now and frac modules don't draw that much attention.
Cat-A-Tonic
I also hope to see some new developments from Blacet.
Who knows; maybe he'll surprise us with a new module in the new year.

BugBrand is developing a unique and complete system of its own at a very healthy pace.
His primary focus may be the banana system, but his 3.5mm jack modules interface perfectly with the rest of Frac.

I currently have 6 over-flowing racks of Frac, and have started adding Euro modules to compliment my core Frac system.

I think the Euro-only people are missing out if they don't consider adding some of the Frac exclusive modules to their systems.

There may not be new modules every month like there seem to have been with Euro lately, but people are still buying brand new, ready built Frac modules.
It doesn't seem at all 'dead' to me.

In response to the OP:
Give us a link to your ebay auctions in the Buy/Sell/Trade section and they are not as likely to end so low.
I didn't see this auction at all.
You'd be better off putting a reserve price on it too.

Heads up: there is a Blacet Filthy Filtre on ebay now.
e-grad
Cat-A-Tonic wrote:
Heads up: there is a Blacet Filthy Filtre on ebay now.


Amazingly he had to re-list it! No one bit at the first auction. It's the same module which is offered here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9659&highlight=blace t

Babaluma wrote:
i'd still really like to see the replacement for the quad mix/vca.


If the old QuadVCA will do the job here is one FS:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9741&highlight=blace t
rezzn8r
Frac is Dead!, Long Live Frac! MY ASS IS BLEEDING
I recently joined the frac club, and think it's a fantastic format.
I really hope it doesn't wither in the shadow of Euro.
Going to email Shawn right now to get on the SoS list, even if it never reaches 30.
Babaluma
i have the old quad mix vca already. it's a great mixer, but it is stuck in exponential mode, has a useless 75/100dB switch, and can't be used as four independent vcas. i'd like to see all that changed on the new version (as long as it remains 2 units wide!)
DGTom
That 75/100db switch is pretty wierd huh? I wish I had the schem. so I could see what it was doing.

I like the expo. response, the bias knob & the really stupid hard distortion it does. To me its more like a Voltage Controlled Mixer than a VCA & I almost always run ABC out into D in to create a 3 -> 1 mixer. The crazy thing about it is how differant it sounds with differant envelope generators. My Metalbox Dual ADs get so much louder than the EG1s, great for drum patches, the lack of seperate outs for each VCA has never been a problem for me.

Would totally like to see it updated tho.
goiks
11ish wrote:
Frac modules (at least the Blacet ones) tend to be rather deep. And large.


While deep and large can be desirable attributes in other contexts, they certainly hamper portability in this one, and are the main reason I chose to go Euro at a certain point. Still can't get rid of the Miniwave though. And even my 15v DIY has euro size faceplates now.
panda30y
goiks wrote:
11ish wrote:
Frac modules (at least the Blacet ones) tend to be rather deep. And large.


While deep and large can be desirable attributes in other contexts, they certainly hamper portability in this one, and are the main reason I chose to go Euro at a certain point. Still can't get rid of the Miniwave though. And even my 15v DIY has euro size faceplates now.


I certainly don't think the size is that big of an issue in terms of portability. It is certainly not approaching anywhere close to what a challenge a 5U system would present, and even though it is about 7 inches deep, when it is racked in a case it isn't that much deeper. More along the lines of gigging w/ a very light 2x12 combo amp. You might not be able to fit as many modules into a single row as euro, but I do feel overall the modules tend to have more depth and the ones that don't are just 1 FU wide.

I think the things hurting Frac is that euro is so similar to it in terms of build, 3U and utilizing 3.5mm jacks and cords. And the obvious number of manufacturers supporting euro make frac seem stagnant. If blacet were to start introducing newer modules (and hopefully a banana jack option meh ) and when Bugbrand begins manufacturing his modules in greater quantity, I think you'll find it surprising how many more people will begin to start building their own frac systems or expanding their systems. Not to mention there is also this other amazing company named metalbox making fantastic modules as well. If the three of them start releasing and/or make exciting new revisions, we would get a big spark in interest. Look at how much activity has happened here because of bugbrand's recent sale.
DGTom
panda30y wrote:
(and hopefully a banana jack option meh )


I would love for someone to email & suggest this to J. Blacet... please report back with the reply hihi
panda30y
DGTom wrote:
panda30y wrote:
(and hopefully a banana jack option meh )


I would love for someone to email & suggest this to J. Blacet... please report back with the reply hihi


I'm scared to do so based on what you were alluding to in a previous twitter post.
dude
one time i asked him about 1/4" jacks. i think his reply was one word: no. he has been a man of few words in the email exchanges i've had. metalbox is where it's at! and he even does 1/4" for weirdos like me.
DGTom
yeah, the impression I get is Mr. Blacet uses minijacks because he thinks they are best & he doesn't apprciate us kids questioning his design choices.

In one way I respect that... in another way...
Babaluma
John Blacet has never been anything except courteous, prompt, kind and generous in all my dealings with him. best customer service i have received in all the dealings i have had in synthdom!

wade goeke from chandler also offers service as good as this.
dude
Babaluma wrote:
John Blacet has never been anything except courteous, prompt, kind and generous in all my dealings with him. best customer service i have received in all the dealings i have had in synthdom!

wade goeke from chandler also offers service as good as this.


i have never dropped money with blacet though so i imagine paying customer versus some random person making design requests is a big difference. i don't mean to say that he is an asshole or has bad customer service, just that i have dealt with other designers/manufacturers and some are nice/open/flexible/accomodating regardless of cash and some i think need to be warmed up. i suppose there isn't anything wrong with that but it has led me to other places. and i am frankly pleased with my results. as i said before i like metalbox because of the flexibility/custom options and communication.
oozitron
Considering the amount of re-designing it would take to produce the Blacet line in 1/4" or banana, I think John would would need a huge amount of sales to just break even. Lots of the jacks are PCB mounted, and neither a 1/4" nor a banana would work there.

The large number of module manufacturers has definitely watered down the market. I would guess that demand has gone up somewhat, but supply has grown exponentially!

Personally, over the last 2-3 years I've been slowly selling off modules and replacing them with DIY. I am sticking with FRAC format and 1/8" connections because for me they are the perfect balance of cost and functionality. Bananas are cool, but normalled connections are even cooler smile

Drew
dude
in a beautiful place out in the country has some of the worlds best vocoder by the way.
A Dingleberry Monstrosity
DUDE I JUST SCORED AN OAKLEY RING MOD FOR $48 ON EBAY!!!!!

fucking winnnnn!!!!
scozbor
except frac is SHIT and DEAD!
more like a lose for you lol
DGTom
Yeah, I've seen nothing but praise for the service from Blacet, which is one of the reasons I was so amazed at the response I got for an after sales service request. It was nothing major, but, I've no reason to make it up either seriously, i just don't get it

oozitron wrote:
Lots of the jacks are PCB mounted, and neither a 1/4" nor a banana would work there.


I've banana'd a Micro LFO... its doable, I'm sure the Window Comparator & Dual Linear VCA will present some unique challanges, but, nothing impossible. The most it would take for Blacet is a minor revision of some of the newer boards to include mounting holes so 'stooge bracket' type add ons could be used & price increase to cover extra wiring / switches etc.

Nothing huge.

oozitron wrote:
Bananas are cool, but normalled connections are even cooler


As a user of both... I disagree... this is totally subjective tho & I imagine normals in a DIY setting is a differant kettle of fish all together, when you are the person maing the choices about work-flow & behind the scense functionality. Each to their own of course & as always... YMMV
11ish
panda30y wrote:
goiks wrote:
11ish wrote:
Frac modules (at least the Blacet ones) tend to be rather deep. And large.


While deep and large can be desirable attributes in other contexts, they certainly hamper portability in this one, and are the main reason I chose to go Euro at a certain point. Still can't get rid of the Miniwave though. And even my 15v DIY has euro size faceplates now.


I certainly don't think the size is that big of an issue in terms of portability. It is certainly not approaching anywhere close to what a challenge a 5U system would present,


That's certainly right, and, to qualify my own statement from earlier, a lot of frac modules are packed with functionality. To recreate the functions of some of the blacet modules, adequate euro modules would take up more space horizontically.
DGTom
The Blacet PCBs may be big... but damn it makes it easier to cut the odd trace & add an extra resistor in here & there SlayerBadger!

Mr. Blacet may not like us altering his modules but he sure does make it nice & easy Mr. Green razz
e-grad
DGTom wrote:
Mr. Blacet may not like us altering his modules but he sure does make it nice & easy Mr. Green razz


I used to think that he's happy if his kits help to develop skills in electronics and to make use of it!
krelnarb
And another plus with Frac is you'll never have that little gap at the end of your rack when it doesn't add up to 84 HP.
emergencyofstate
I've got frac and euro hanging out together. everything is AOK.

i don't get the hating euro thing? really? hate?

it's a modular synth format.
wetterberg
BugBrand wrote:
DGTom wrote:
One thing is for sure; its a bad time to be selling frac modules...


I disagree..!
Do you have any for sale right now? razz
D/A A/D
As long as I get to fill my sole frac rack I will be happy. I got into frac for the MW, I like the idea of a all digital fraction rig.
Tubeampguy
[quote="Babaluma"]John Blacet has never been anything except courteous, prompt, kind and generous in all my dealings with him. best customer service i have received in all the dealings i have had in synthdom!

I completely agree! nanners Blacet It's peanut butter jelly time!
simfonik
[quote="Tubeampguy"]
Babaluma wrote:
John Blacet has never been anything except courteous, prompt, kind and generous in all my dealings with him. best customer service i have received in all the dealings i have had in synthdom!

I completely agree! nanners Blacet It's peanut butter jelly time!


8 years later hihi
ritchiedrums
It is foolish for Frac manufacturers to Not offer Bananas sad banana
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