Yes - both are possible, and both positions could be either correct or wrong, depending on what definition of drone is being used (if any). And, as you point out, also due to the subjective nature of perception.Nelson Baboon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:43 pmIs it possible that person A listens to a piece and says that it's a drone, and person B listens to it and says, say, "well, i don't hear that as a drone".
Is one of them right and the other wrong?
Aren't most debates phenomenological, as opposed to concrete?
As above i.e both positions can/could be correct.Nelson Baboon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:43 pmLet's take another 2 people. To avoid confusion, let's assign them different letters. Let's say we have person X and person Y. Person X is into genres, and perceives drone as a genre, and person Y is not only ignorant of the 10 billion current genres, but doesn't give a shit about them. Person X waxes on about how a piece doesn't fit the genre for various technical reasons (maybe it uses a Behringer synth), but person Y says - "sure it's a drone. That's how I hear it".
Is one of them right and the other wrong?
Isn't it more a matter of degree, as opposed to exclusivity i.e I could look at a green wooden thing with leaves and call it 'tree', whereas a botanist could call it Fraxinus Excelsior; both are correct (one is simply more specific than the other).
To the botanist, 'Fraxinus Excelsior' may be more useful to/for their purposes, whereas to the layman, 'tree' is more than adequate.
Isn't that part of the fun?!
One could also come up with all sorts of examples of musical ideas, and refer to these as their 'output'...
Wasn't 'tree' also simply subjective experience until we, as a species, agreed upon defining characteristics/qualities/sub-categorisations etc?Nelson Baboon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:43 pmand i think that ultimately, unless one is totally out of the loop as far as the terms (my Aunt WWWWWWW for instance, doesn't listen to music at all, and thought that drone music connoted only the sounds of insects, and large ones at that), it's really just subjective experience, and comes down to a more advanced (to many, simplistic) conception of music.
We didn't need to expand our definition/define with greater accuracy - nor do we need to now.
But couldn't we say that for some, greater accuracy leads to greater understanding/clarity - and less potential for misunderstanding when communicating to others who also understand the terms/labels/semiotic associations?
Do you have data to affirm your assertion RE this not being the case?Nelson Baboon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:43 pmI think that the example was to have the same Beatles song play repeatedly, and that this would possibly be a drone after a bit. Of course it wouldn't. Unless the listener began hallucinating from the repetition of the song for days while sleep deprived, it would continue to sound like a Beatles song, which is very far from what the language would generally refer to as a drone.
I intentionally mentioned semantic satiation in the example as semantic satiation suggests the example may/could be perceived as drone (as with mantra etc) i.e semantic satiation acts as proof that a thing-in-itself (in this instance, a word - or rather, the aural realisation of a word) can/often does lose its intrinsic meaning upon constant repetition - with this suggesting the possibility that other aurally-repetitive events may produce the same result.
The question I was proposing was 'what is the durational/structural limit (if any) at which an aural event will, upon repetition, be perceived as a single auditory stream?'
And secondarily relating to the duration/ratio of these events.