External power for an RK4 in a 7U powered case?

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cthonist
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External power for an RK4 in a 7U powered case?

Post by cthonist » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:18 pm

I'm really interested in getting an RK4, but my MakeNoise 7U case (the new metal one) is full, and close to its +12v current limit already, so of course I will never try powering it from that PSU..
I've been reading the power info direct from Metasonix, but most of it seems to be about whole cases, or PSUs to avoid. I know the m15 is recommended, but I have a few questions about it below.

So what's the best way to power a single RK4 independently, inside my case? Ideally I'd like something taking up 4hp or less. Having the power to supply an additional RK module or 2 would be nice, but isn't required.

- If I use an external power module, does it *need* to have a powered busboard?

-If I get an external power module with a 16pin output, can I just plug it directly into the RK4 as its dedicated power source?

- What are the best (4hp or less) external power module options? The m15 seems great, but the powered busboard seems pretty big.

- What are dimensions (height, mostly) of the Trogotronic m15 busboard? how feasible is it to mount that inside the MN case in addition to the built in busboard?

- How much ventilation does a single RK4 need? Should I leave an empty HP on either side? Does the fact my case is metal mean it'll disperse heat from the RK4 better than wood/usual case materials?

- Do all the options for adding *one* RK module give enough power to supply more than just the one? Curious for future rack planning.


Thanks in advance for the help![/list]

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EPTC
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Post by EPTC » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:10 pm

Just bump your HP up to 8HP and get an RKP. http://www.metasonix.com/index.php/rkp-power-system

It's $300 but well worth it and you won't be wondering if your RK module is powered correctly.

No guarantee, but how much draw is on your MakeNoise stuff? Here it says total output is around an Amp on each rail.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... orack-case

With some creative cabling, an RKP might be able to power your entire Make Noise case and two or three Metasonix modules.
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turin horsey
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Post by turin horsey » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:39 pm

EPTC wrote:
With some creative cabling, an RKP might be able to power your entire Make Noise case and two or three Metasonix modules.
Explain?

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Chartreuse-J
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Re: External power for an RK4 in a 7U powered case?

Post by Chartreuse-J » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:45 pm

cthonist wrote:
- If I use an external power module, does it *need* to have a powered busboard?
RKP and some others you just plug into the back of the power module. Ribbons suck anyway, so use the connectors on the back.

Image

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ritchiedrums
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Post by ritchiedrums » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:30 am

Yes!
Trash your power supply & get the RKP or
a Trogotronic supply

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Post by snakejaw » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:37 am

Based on power specs, the uZeus with 3000ma μzeus boost universal adapter will power one, and only one, RK4.

RK4 - max draw (at cold start) +1,000 mA, -25 mA

uZeus 3000ma is +2,000 mA, -500 mA

It might not be Metasonix kosher, but I can't see a problem, beyond that.

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Post by EPTC » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:52 pm

turin horsey wrote:Explain?
Well, first I AM JUST SOME DUDE ON THE INTERNET (so don't trust me without doing the math and maybe contacting both Make Noise and Metasonix) but you could do conceivably the following pretty easily:

Using one half of an RKP for Metasonix modules, one half with Flying Bus Cables

1) RKP states it's a 5amp per +12,-12,5v
2) Buy an RKP and spring for the 5v adapter as well (Make Noise needs it, and you'll want it if you ever get an R55)
3) RKP is six power headers. Use 2-3 of these for Metasonix modules. (But only use two if using high power hungry modules like RK3, RK4 or R55)
4) Use the remaining three power headers for passive flying bus cables. (Be sure to use passive ones, just the long ribbon cable with extra headers)

Each bus cable should have around six module headers, so that's tons of available module headers, provided they're low power to not exceed 500 total on each ribbon. Distribute module load evenly, so each power cable has an even draw compared to the others (this might mean only having one power-hungry module on one ribbon, and six low-power modules on another)

Presto, you should be able to connect all your Make Noise devices on one half of the RKP and 2-3 Metasonix modules on the other half.

5) Calculate math on all mA load before any of this and plan a lower load than required. RKP is rated 5 amps, so aim at around 4.5 amps for everything. (maybe be even more conservative at 4amps) - Again, I'm just making a guess here, others should feel welcome to correct me.

Here's how you do the math:

Go to Metasonix site and under support find the manual for each module you want to include. The power requirements are usually in near the end or included (with some verbal decoration) in the paragraphs. Remember startup on each module is double is needed operating load.

Be generous and add an additional 100mA to each module's maximum load. So if the manual suggests it needs 200mA to operate, and 400mA on start, safely guess that to be 500mA. (note: Be sure to check each Metasonix module carefully, as others have stated correctly here - The RK4 needs around 1-1.5 amps to run and heat up correctly)

Then go to Make Noise and do the same thing, adding up each module's pull. But if they're saying their case is just 1.5mA tops, I can't expect their modules to be too power hungry.

Going back to the RKP:
By this math, you'll probably want to carve out a combined 2.5 amps for your three metasonix power heads, and 500 mA each for the three power headers you've reserved for Make Noise (or a combined 1.5 amps for Make Noise)

Short version of this: Use three of the RKP's power headers for Metasonix and three of the RKP headers for passive flying bus cables for the Make Noise.
SPOKEN WORD WITH ELECTRONICS, New Releases on EPTC, Spring/Summer 2020:
"This is the TRUTH!": https://eptc.bandcamp.com/album/this-is-the-truth
"A Portable Paul Krassner": https://eptc.bandcamp.com/album/paul-krassner

This week's show is a tribute to David Wojnarowicz:


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turin horsey
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Post by turin horsey » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:38 am

EPTC wrote:
turin horsey wrote:Explain?
Well, first I AM JUST SOME DUDE ON THE INTERNET (so don't trust me without doing the math and maybe contacting both Make Noise and Metasonix) but you could do conceivably the following pretty easily:

Using one half of an RKP for Metasonix modules, one half with Flying Bus Cables

1) RKP states it's a 5amp per +12,-12,5v
2) Buy an RKP and spring for the 5v adapter as well (Make Noise needs it, and you'll want it if you ever get an R55)
3) RKP is six power headers. Use 2-3 of these for Metasonix modules. (But only use two if using high power hungry modules like RK3, RK4 or R55)
4) Use the remaining three power headers for passive flying bus cables. (Be sure to use passive ones, just the long ribbon cable with extra headers)

Each bus cable should have around six module headers, so that's tons of available module headers, provided they're low power to not exceed 500 total on each ribbon. Distribute module load evenly, so each power cable has an even draw compared to the others (this might mean only having one power-hungry module on one ribbon, and six low-power modules on another)

Presto, you should be able to connect all your Make Noise devices on one half of the RKP and 2-3 Metasonix modules on the other half.

5) Calculate math on all mA load before any of this and plan a lower load than required. RKP is rated 5 amps, so aim at around 4.5 amps for everything. (maybe be even more conservative at 4amps) - Again, I'm just making a guess here, others should feel welcome to correct me.

Here's how you do the math:

Go to Metasonix site and under support find the manual for each module you want to include. The power requirements are usually in near the end or included (with some verbal decoration) in the paragraphs. Remember startup on each module is double is needed operating load.

Be generous and add an additional 100mA to each module's maximum load. So if the manual suggests it needs 200mA to operate, and 400mA on start, safely guess that to be 500mA. (note: Be sure to check each Metasonix module carefully, as others have stated correctly here - The RK4 needs around 1-1.5 amps to run and heat up correctly)

Then go to Make Noise and do the same thing, adding up each module's pull. But if they're saying their case is just 1.5mA tops, I can't expect their modules to be too power hungry.

Going back to the RKP:
By this math, you'll probably want to carve out a combined 2.5 amps for your three metasonix power heads, and 500 mA each for the three power headers you've reserved for Make Noise (or a combined 1.5 amps for Make Noise)

Short version of this: Use three of the RKP's power headers for Metasonix and three of the RKP headers for passive flying bus cables for the Make Noise.
Excellence!! Will do a reconfig in December and report back :nana:

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