R55

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malnatim
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Post by malnatim » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:34 am

i agree too. messing around with cv and the trimmers would be a waste of time. using another oscillator to track r-55 is so easy. since just trying the square wave, (as per the manual), i've tried others. i like the way dif waveforms change the tone of the r-55. had some good results using the folded, final output of dpo.

thanks for the tip and great info QuantumMechanakillWave. very interesting. i'll try this out.

2nd r-55 ordered.

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metasonix
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Post by metasonix » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:48 pm

QuantumMechanakillWave wrote:This will work best if you do not have a filter or vca between the audiolation osc and tube osc. The response of these osc's are very state specific due to the nature of the tubes used. I think some of it has to do with the ionization time of the gases used in the particular Thyratron tube. Having the Thyratron constantly tracking a Frequency that is relatively close to the next frequency which it will be expected to follow will reduce the stabilization time for the new note.
That's a good guess. I suspect this is why so few commercial products were made that used thyratrons as relaxation oscillators, because they're so erratic. But then, that's what makes them interesting, too.

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Post by QuantumMechanakillWave » Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:08 pm

metasonix wrote:
QuantumMechanakillWave wrote:This will work best if you do not have a filter or vca between the audiolation osc and tube osc. The response of these osc's are very state specific due to the nature of the tubes used. I think some of it has to do with the ionization time of the gases used in the particular Thyratron tube. Having the Thyratron constantly tracking a Frequency that is relatively close to the next frequency which it will be expected to follow will reduce the stabilization time for the new note.
That's a good guess. I suspect this is why so few commercial products were made that used thyratrons as relaxation oscillators, because they're so erratic. But then, that's what makes them interesting, too.
Yes, extremely interesting! We are very glad that you made them!

I love modulating the pulsewidth of the audiolation osc. You introduce some amazing textures by bringing it to just to the edge of stability and beyond!
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metasonix
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Post by metasonix » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:47 pm

QuantumMechanakillWave wrote:Yes, extremely interesting! We are very glad that you made them!
And I'd love it if you could take on the many people who hate our thyratron VCOS because they're "not perfect" and "not clean" and "not always perfectly in tune and tracking".

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Post by Kent » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:59 am

There isn't a need to take anyone on, I think. You intentionally design products that are not for everyone. Why worry what everyone thinks? The 'right people' get it. Those who don't, well, they don't.

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QuantumMechanakillWave
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Post by QuantumMechanakillWave » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:28 am

The modules to me are art in and of themselves.

As artists, we have to define our expression within the confines of a set of boundary conditions for a given media. That is to say, when painting a 3 dimensional object onto a canvas to be represented in 2 dimensions, a series of decisions are made. These decisions are governed by several factors: one's ability, one's perceptions and the limitations of the media itself. These modules were created to fulfill a purpose for which the core materials were never intended. The modules do not function, nor respond in the same as other modules. This creates a new set of boundary conditions. To some, this may sound limiting. To me, this has the power to free people from doing what they have always done, and getting what they have always gotten. Furthermore, there are different paintbrushes for each purpose.

One's approach and perception of these modules creates a unique voice for each individual that harnesses them, as each person will have a different array of tools and ideas to approach the boundary conditions.

I think that it would be very interesting to see what happens when more people are able to look outside of the box to use these modules.
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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:20 am

QuantumMechanakillWave wrote:The modules to me are art in and of themselves.

As artists, we have to define our expression within the confines of a set of boundary conditions for a given media. That is to say, when painting a 3 dimensional object onto a canvas to be represented in 2 dimensions, a series of decisions are made. These decisions are governed by several factors: one's ability, one's perceptions and the limitations of the media itself. These modules were created to fulfill a purpose for which the core materials were never intended. The modules do not function, nor respond in the same as other modules. This creates a new set of boundary conditions. To some, this may sound limiting. To me, this has the power to free people from doing what they have always done, and getting what they have always gotten. Furthermore, there are different paintbrushes for each purpose.

One's approach and perception of these modules creates a unique voice for each individual that harnesses them, as each person will have a different array of tools and ideas to approach the boundary conditions.

I think that it would be very interesting to see what happens when more people are able to look outside of the box to use these modules.
Well said.

There are so many ways to get amazing sounds out of these modules.

Today I'm running my upright bass through TS-21 with a TM-3 modulating the Beam CV and an envelope follower modulating the VCA. :love:
Thickest bass fuzz ever.
:agony:

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Post by QuantumMechanakillWave » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:32 am

Cat-A-Tonic wrote:
QuantumMechanakillWave wrote:The modules to me are art in and of themselves.

As artists, we have to define our expression within the confines of a set of boundary conditions for a given media. That is to say, when painting a 3 dimensional object onto a canvas to be represented in 2 dimensions, a series of decisions are made. These decisions are governed by several factors: one's ability, one's perceptions and the limitations of the media itself. These modules were created to fulfill a purpose for which the core materials were never intended. The modules do not function, nor respond in the same as other modules. This creates a new set of boundary conditions. To some, this may sound limiting. To me, this has the power to free people from doing what they have always done, and getting what they have always gotten. Furthermore, there are different paintbrushes for each purpose.

One's approach and perception of these modules creates a unique voice for each individual that harnesses them, as each person will have a different array of tools and ideas to approach the boundary conditions.

I think that it would be very interesting to see what happens when more people are able to look outside of the box to use these modules.
Well said.

There are so many ways to get amazing sounds out of these modules.

Today I'm running my upright bass through TS-21 with a TM-3 modulating the Beam CV and an envelope follower modulating the VCA. :love:
Thickest bass fuzz ever.
:agony:
HIT RECORD! I want to hear that combo! :bananaguitar:
"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things that escape those who dream only by night."

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Post by otolathe » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:23 pm

I got two of these suckers and they couldn't be more different. The one I call the "good" one behaves about as well as can be expected of these beasts. Classic oscillator. The one I call the "bad" one is much lower output but HOLY FUCK IS IT A WEIRDO.

Guess which one I like best?
:twisted:

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Post by metasonix » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:43 am

I've been told that Billy Corgan bought three R-55s. He also had to buy an RKP to run the damn things....

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otolathe
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Post by otolathe » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:00 pm

I had to buy a RKP. I have too many empty euroboxes to justify buying another one.

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Post by YellowBlood » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:26 am

I got a question about the R-55, sorry if it's been posted somewhere else. When a cable is plugged into the input will the oscillator stop running and only play when say you play a note from a keyboard? Or does it keep running regardless and will track along with the signal?
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Post by thermionicjunky » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:55 am

YellowBlood wrote:I got a question about the R-55, sorry if it's been posted somewhere else. When a cable is plugged into the input will the oscillator stop running and only play when say you play a note from a keyboard? Or does it keep running regardless and will track along with the signal?
One of the interesting features of thyratrons is that if there is a slight negative offset to the control voltage, the VCO will stop oscillating when that CV goes low. This is especially useful when using audio to sync. You can sweep through harmonics by mixing a DC offset with the audio, then shut it off by going below 0v. You can use it as a signal processor without having to gate the output.

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Post by YellowBlood » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:57 am

That sounds great, thanks so much for the help :tu:
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Post by rhp3000 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:09 pm

Hi to all.

About the tracking of the r-55 i read from the metasonix page and from the store: "CV response: Hz/v"

I know by reading this thread that tracking is "not perfect" and that a good option for tracking is to use another oscillator but, sorry for my newbieness, i was wondering if someone has used the analog 4 (it can send hz/v) to track the r-55 with acceptable results.

Saludos

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Post by QuantumMechanakillWave » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:37 pm

rhp3000 wrote:Hi to all.

About the tracking of the r-55 i read from the metasonix page and from the store: "CV response: Hz/v"

I know by reading this thread that tracking is "not perfect" and that a good option for tracking is to use another oscillator but, sorry for my newbieness, i was wondering if someone has used the analog 4 (it can send hz/v) to track the r-55 with acceptable results.

Saludos
Hi,

You CAN achieve acceptable results tracking a hertz/v control signal. It does require that you calibrate the tracking with the span and offset trimmers. You will want to focus on the specific pitch range for the piece of music on which you are working(example: C3-C4). You will most likely only achieve 1.5-2 octaves of semi-accurate tuning. I say semi-accurate because it's ability to accurately follow the tuning is state specific. This means that the note that you are playing may have an effect on the next note to be played. These non-linearities are exciting, and lend to a "living, breathing" feel.

The most accurate way to get a Thyratron vco to track is force-following a square or rectangle wave(depending on range). I like to use a software derived osc from an extra output of my computer interface.

The BEST way to use a Thyro in general is with a ribbon controller, arbitrary voltage source or joystick!(wretch). These methods allow for the oscillators to fully "breath". I wouldn't trade my wretch for anything!

Hope that helps!
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Post by rhp3000 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:02 pm

QuantumMechanakillWave thanks a lot for the advices.

Silly me, i just thought messing with the trimmers was for v/oct sources only. I am going to try the different approaches that you suggest (when the module cross the custom office : )

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Post by Smokey » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:17 pm

rhp3000 wrote: i was wondering if someone has used the analog 4 (it can send hz/v) to track the r-55 with acceptable results.

Saludos
Hey rhp3000!

I can confirm that the Analog 4 works with the Wretch which also has those Thyratron VCOs. I could get 1.5 octaves on a good day. I second all of QuantumMechanakillWave suggestions.

I actually sold the A4 to buy some expert sleepers hardware to work with my Metasonix gear. After the learning curve, I haven't been disappointed. For my Wretch, the Silent Way plugins seem to be the easiest way for the Thyratrons to sing with everything else.

It would much rather do a giant, resonant, metallic fart whine instead... and I usually let it because thats what it enjoys. :deadbanana:

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Post by QuantumMechanakillWave » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:36 pm

rhp3000 wrote:QuantumMechanakillWave thanks a lot for the advices.

Silly me, i just thought messing with the trimmers was for v/oct sources only. I am going to try the different approaches that you suggest (when the module cross the custom office : )
My pleasure! Good luck with your awesome purchase!

Hi Smokey,

I totally forgot to mention the use of silent way! I can also confirm that it works very well with my wretch. I do not use their hardware, but my audio interface is dc coupled, and it works wonderfully.

A lot of times I use a square wave that originates from an instantiation of the Thor synthesizer in Propellerheads' Reason. Also, there is an exploit with Thor that allows you to route control voltages out of Reason using Thor's mod bus. If you have dc coupled outputs on your audio interface, you can take advantage of this. Reason has a lot of cv sources, allowing a user to free up modular units for more critical function. I like this because I don't always have a spare modular osc from which to sync the wretch.
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Post by rhp3000 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:57 pm

I can confirm that the Analog 4 works with the Wretch which also has those Thyratron VCOs. I could get 1.5 octaves on a good day
Smokey thanks for the confirmation, i would try that when i have the r-55 installed.
I totally forgot to mention the use of silent way! I can also confirm that it works very well with my wretch. I do not use their hardware, but my audio interface is dc coupled, and it works wonderfully.

A lot of times I use a square wave that originates from an instantiation of the Thor synthesizer in Propellerheads' Reason. Also, there is an exploit with Thor that allows you to route control voltages out of Reason using Thor's mod bus. If you have dc coupled outputs on your audio interface, you can take advantage of this. Reason has a lot of cv sources, allowing a user to free up modular units for more critical function. I like this because I don't always have a spare modular osc from which to sync the wretch.
Niceee, another way to sort it out, unfortunately silent way is not an option for me (now), i do not have an audio interface suitable to work with it but now i have nice options to test (a dixie that can do the trick, planar or a ribbon controller to experiment and the A4).

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Post by QuantumMechanakillWave » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:33 pm

rhp3000 wrote:
I can confirm that the Analog 4 works with the Wretch which also has those Thyratron VCOs. I could get 1.5 octaves on a good day
Smokey thanks for the confirmation, i would try that when i have the r-55 installed.
I totally forgot to mention the use of silent way! I can also confirm that it works very well with my wretch. I do not use their hardware, but my audio interface is dc coupled, and it works wonderfully.

A lot of times I use a square wave that originates from an instantiation of the Thor synthesizer in Propellerheads' Reason. Also, there is an exploit with Thor that allows you to route control voltages out of Reason using Thor's mod bus. If you have dc coupled outputs on your audio interface, you can take advantage of this. Reason has a lot of cv sources, allowing a user to free up modular units for more critical function. I like this because I don't always have a spare modular osc from which to sync the wretch.
Niceee, another way to sort it out, unfortunately silent way is not an option for me (now), i do not have an audio interface suitable to work with it but now i have nice options to test (a dixie that can do the trick, planar or a ribbon controller to experiment and the A4).
Sounds awesome! Have fun! :bananaguitar:

Also, one final note: I have noticed that thyratrons seem to track better in the higher freq range when fed a narrower pulse width wave. I like to Mult the pitch cv, send 1 to your osc that the wretch will follow, and the other to an attenuverter and then to the pulsewidth of the osc to be followed. Send enough of the cv signal to narrow the pulsewidth as you play higher on the keyboard. You can get a lot more range out of it this way. If you do not narrow the pulsewidth, you can get octaves that repeat in the higher range. Also play with the volume the osc to be followed.
"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things that escape those who dream only by night."

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Post by rhp3000 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:18 pm

Also, one final note: I have noticed that thyratrons seem to track better in the higher freq range when fed a narrower pulse width wave. I like to Mult the pitch cv, send 1 to your osc that the wretch will follow, and the other to an attenuverter and then to the pulsewidth of the osc to be followed. Send enough of the cv signal to narrow the pulsewidth as you play higher on the keyboard. You can get a lot more range out of it this way. If you do not narrow the pulsewidth, you can get octaves that repeat in the higher range. Also play with the volume the osc to be followed
Noted, for language reasons with this explanation now the one you post at the end of page 2 makes better sense to me :doh:

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QuantumMechanakillWave
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Post by QuantumMechanakillWave » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:17 pm

rhp3000 wrote:
Also, one final note: I have noticed that thyratrons seem to track better in the higher freq range when fed a narrower pulse width wave. I like to Mult the pitch cv, send 1 to your osc that the wretch will follow, and the other to an attenuverter and then to the pulsewidth of the osc to be followed. Send enough of the cv signal to narrow the pulsewidth as you play higher on the keyboard. You can get a lot more range out of it this way. If you do not narrow the pulsewidth, you can get octaves that repeat in the higher range. Also play with the volume the osc to be followed
Noted, for language reasons with this explanation now the one you post at the end of page 2 makes better sense to me :doh:
I know. I should really do a connection diagram. It is kinda confusing!
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Post by aux.tech » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:00 pm

M6live wrote:put this dual metasonix r-55 composition together yesterday:

[video][/video]
What were you using to sequence this? Were you sending trigger pulses or simply square waves being played fast? Basically, what did you use besides the 2 R-55s?

I love this song/demo, the R-55s just sound so good.

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Post by Yes Powder » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:15 pm

aux.tech wrote:What were you using to sequence this?
Patch is listed in the video description.
The two R-55 modules are hard-synced to a Cwejman D-LFO (square wave), and a Mutable Instruments Braids CSAW (being tracked by the Vermona qMI). The oscillators are run into a Cwejman DMF-2 for timbral dynamics with further modulation provided by an additional Cwejman D-LFO.

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