What is a Wretch Machine worth these days?

tablebeast · Post by **tablebeast** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:22 am

I recently made a trade with a guy where he is sending me a very nice Wretch Machine for some of my custom tube amps. Anyway, I may consider selling it or trading for some other stuff, but the current market for it seems a bit confusing. The problem is that it seems like they go for way more money now that I remember the original price being. So my questions are: what was the most recent retail price of The Wretch Machine before they were discontinued and what does the going rate for them now seem to be? I saw $3300 for one! That can't be right, can it?

bendedavis · Post by **bendedavis** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:39 am

Please tell me the guy you traded with doesn't live in Alabama?

yeah, the latest price before they were discontinued was $3300

tablebeast · Post by **tablebeast** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:17 pm

No, this guy is in the UK. I traded a custom dual amp setup and one of my modded SK-1's for it. I just got it today and it looks to be in great shape. Just a tiny bit of rack rash.

decaying.sine · Post by **decaying.sine** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:20 pm

$2999 is a nice price. $3500 is expected. $4000 is high.
I don't make the rules, I just make stuff up.

tablebeast · Post by **tablebeast** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:25 pm

Nevermind.

MN3005 · Post by **MN3005** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:55 pm

tablebeast wrote:admin edit

Says the guy with a 28 post count, violating not one but TWO of muffs rules.

tablebeast · Post by **tablebeast** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:27 pm

Says the guy with a 28 post count, violating not one but TWO of muffs rules.

Forgive me, I didn't realise the 100 post rule for classifieds or mentions of stuff for sale is signatures, etc. I'm not a big forum poster, more of a lurker. I need to sell this to get a truck long before I can muster up another 70 or so genuine posts. So off to evilBay it goes. What was the other rule I broke?

equalpyramid · Post by **equalpyramid** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:07 pm

I think he was referring to posting items for sale in sections other than "for sale/for trade". If you plead insanity, maybe the council of elders won't execute you after all

. Best of luck with the sale.

tablebeast · Post by **tablebeast** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:32 pm

That makes sense. As for the posting rules on for sale items I just didn't know the rules, but I do now. Hopefully the fact that I have been making cool sound devices for over a decade will get me a little leniency since mine was a case of an experienced person just new to this site rather than some greenhorn without a clue.

Moreover, I was really just thinking out loud more than anything. I really don't want to sell it, but as valuable as it is I can't afford to keep it. I'm still hoping I get swept up in the autumn flood of orders that is a bit late in coming this year so that I can keep it around for a little while.

By the way, a friend of mine recorded this collection of noises on his first spin with the S-1000, using the built-in joystick of course. Enjoy.

http://soundcloud.com/xfmr/metasonix-s-1000-wretch

Post by **Kent** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:35 pm

It's all good. He just made a couple of simple mistakes and then rectified them.

equalpyramid · Post by **equalpyramid** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:59 pm

What Kent said. It's good to have you among us. Moreover, I think you would be a great addition to the DIY subforum. Check it out when you get a chance. It could use more tube discussion too!

Post by **Kent** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:14 pm

equalpyramid wrote:Check it out when you get a chance. It could use more tube discussion too!

WÃƒÂ¸rd.

metasonix · Post by **metasonix** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:48 pm

As I just explained to someone in email:

We're not planning to make "another S-1000", mainly because the
supply of 2D21 tubes is becoming shaky. We'll keep making R-55s
for at least another year. After that, I can't guarantee any VCO using
thyratrons would be economic, except as a very expensive "boutique"
device.

You can build your own S-1000-like system in a proper Euro cabinet
with adequate power supplies.
You need two R-55s, an R-53, and an R-52, plus a VCA and associated
envelopes and LFOs. It would be more flexible than an S-1000 too.

tablebeast · Post by **tablebeast** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:24 am

the
supply of 2D21 tubes is becoming shaky. We'll keep making R-55s
for at least another year. After that, I can't guarantee any VCO using
thyratrons would be economic, except as a very expensive "boutique"
device.

Is there a specific model of 2D21 that you use exclusively? Do they not test well or have a high rejection rate for synth use? Just looking at ebay and there are piles of these tubes available cheap. If I dug online I bet I could find dealers with bulk packaging stock. It seems like if you sold units in the hundreds instead of hundreds of thousands, you'd be OK making stuff with them for a long time. What factors would make it expensive? I understand demand in audio tubes have succumbed to the supply and demand curve with some prices getting insane, but what demand is there out in the world for 2D21 outside of your gear? Do the HAM guys use it for something? Sorry to question your statement, it just left me scratching me head. The tube in the Wretch that seems tough to find any consistent supply of is the 6AL7 eye tube. The ones I have seen have not aged very well.

In any case, I kind of like the idea of building something out of hard to find tubes. There are a lot of hard to find models that also have extremely low to non-existent demand, so it would be fun to buy up a bunch of say 6EM7s and build a specific run of gear with them. toss in a few extras so the user doesn't have to hunt them down in a few years and just enjoy that rare air.

It could use more tube discussion too!

Well, I like the vibe on this board. I'm still not exactly sure what a Muff Wiggler is, but I like it none the less. I have many tube synth type projects to share. My amps that I build in the Akai Roberts tube monoblock format are already modular amps and I can stack three of the modules per case, so I will have some unique suitcase sized all tube setups that I will share with you guys as I build each module. One thing I am working on just today is research on a way to do a pitch to CV circuit with all tubes. Looking at solid state circuits make it seem very possible, but it will take some serious experimentation to get ti to work the way want I'm sure. Anyway, that is the kind of stuff I'll drop on the DIY section once I have some prototypes to share.

metasonix · Post by **metasonix** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:01 am

tablebeast wrote:Is there a specific model of 2D21 that you use exclusively? Do they not test well or have a high rejection rate for synth use? Just looking at ebay and there are piles of these tubes available cheap. If I dug online I bet I could find dealers with bulk packaging stock.

Please, don't. You're not helping me. eBay is NOT, I repeat NOT, the most reliable place to buy NOS tubes. I've had far more luck with the Rogalskis and Antique Electronic Supply, believe it or not.

I will NOT make more Wretches. Okay? It's done. It's not just a 2D21 supply issue. They are also used in 1960s jukeboxes to control relays, so there IS a demand for them. When insane hoarders start grabbing up all the stock of a tube that established dealers have, you know there's something else going on. That's already happened to the 6AL7, and it's starting to happen to 2D21s.

tablebeast · Post by **tablebeast** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:24 am

Please, don't. You're not helping me.

I think I may have struck a nerve. I wasn't trying to be a good little elf and help Santa deliver toys, I was just legitimately curious about this oddball tube's availability. JUKEBOXES! I knew there was a logical answer.

When insane hoarders start grabbing up all the stock of a tube that established dealers have, you know there's something else going on.

Interesting. I imagine in time this will happen to nearly ALL tubes. I think I read a few years ago someone tried to sell you a whole tractor trailer full of 6AK5 or something and you turned them down. I bet if there were no buyers even at rock bottom prices that this load ended up buried in landfill instead of stored above ground waiting for demand. So, in effect some of these weirdo valves that have low demand may disappear in big chunks and then all of a sudden flip from common to "where did they all fucking go!?!"

tablebeast · Post by **tablebeast** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:50 am

Eric, while we are talking about hard to find weirdo tubes that for use in interesting synth modules, I wanted to ask you what you thought about this Z803U: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_z803u.html

metasonix · Post by **metasonix** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:06 pm

tablebeast wrote:Eric, while we are talking about hard to find weirdo tubes that for use in interesting synth modules, I wanted to ask you what you thought about this Z803U: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_z803u.html

Cold cathode tubes really suck. There is not much you can do with them. Don't even think about a "VCO".

Stick around, you might see something soon. It just won't come from Metasonix.

tiny333 · Post by **tiny333** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:17 pm

Picture file

tiny333 · Post by **tiny333** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:21 pm

The amp in question ...

MUFF WIGGLER

MUFF WIGGLER

What is a Wretch Machine worth these days?

What is a Wretch Machine worth these days?