MakeNoise Mimeophon

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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hawkfuzz
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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by hawkfuzz » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm

Some of these people are cringe.

I hope this gets solved for everyone. I really think the physics of sound aren’t being given enough gravity in the situation.

Crossfading or lack thereof might be a bit of the issue. If you have a buffer recording sound and that buffer cuts off it won’t be a smooth sound. Take an audio wav in a DAW and just slice it randomly somewhere. Now paste it over and over. Chances are certain types of sonic content will have a pop/click at the stop or end point.

I do not design modules or write code so I don’t know what can/is being done. I don’t know what the priorities are with resources for my company being in limited supply while trying to keep everyone employed and mentally happy during one of the most difficult times in modern history. Should I focus on getting parts from where I can find them and maintain dealer supply, keep working on our new thing that’s part of an ecosystem we are trying to implement across the community? I don’t know. Focus on this older favored module being rereleased? Do all of them and have someone work on the firmware and not promise something I’m not sure can be fixed? Have I checked the message boards at all? Do I need to check the message boards when people have evolved so much online from a small, fun community to the same entitled, pitchfork wielding, misplaced anger having people that are found everywhere and make conversations as draining as possible?

However, I don’t think T is some big wig smoking a cigar on a stack of money selling snake oil. Vote with your dollar if it’s an issue and move on. If you can’t afford the module why are you getting it? If you can afford it and it doesn’t work I completely understand the issue with it not working.

This isn’t Verbos.

Years ago some of you would have complained the first Whammy pedal didn’t track properly or the Memory Man had too much noise at longer settings.

Get a different stereo, multi-zone color audio repeater if you don’t like this one.

Edit: I see MN answered while I was typing this
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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by 22tape » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:11 pm

hawkfuzz wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm
Some of these people are cringe.

I hope this gets solved for everyone.
:hmm:
hawkfuzz wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm
If you can’t afford the module why are you getting it?
I'm pretty sure that was directed at me. I can afford it as long as I sell a couple of modules to fund it, which I'm more than happy to do, but I just like to know what I'm getting into. MN's above post does give reassurance. If that statement wasn't meant for me, please disregard :mrgreen:

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by h1ghfiv3 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:07 pm

hawkfuzz wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm

Crossfading or lack thereof might be a bit of the issue. If you have a buffer recording sound and that buffer cuts off it won’t be a smooth sound. Take an audio wav in a DAW and just slice it randomly somewhere. Now paste it over and over. Chances are certain types of sonic content will have a pop/click at the stop or end point.
This is exactly what I thought. The clicking sounds very similar to the result of cutting and pasting different audio wav's together on my DAW without crossfading. Also, some pages ago, another user reported on trying different new mimeophones out of the box in his own case, always experiencing the same issues, then swapping the new ones for a possibly older model from the local vendor's display case, which apparently did not have any of the clicking issues. Does this point more towards a software or a hardware issue ?
I write this here in case the people from MN read this thread to look for possible solutions to this problem.
I want to stress again that the clicking appears even without any modulation, and at all the different (low/high) input gains I've tried so far.
I, for one, would be glad if this issue could be solved, as I feel that the module is completely unparalleled in its potential and love it for what it can do.

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by hawkfuzz » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:33 pm

22tape wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:11 pm
hawkfuzz wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm
Some of these people are cringe.

I hope this gets solved for everyone.
:hmm:
What's confusing?
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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by afaafa » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:39 pm

h1ghfiv3 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:07 pm
hawkfuzz wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm

Crossfading or lack thereof might be a bit of the issue. If you have a buffer recording sound and that buffer cuts off it won’t be a smooth sound. Take an audio wav in a DAW and just slice it randomly somewhere. Now paste it over and over. Chances are certain types of sonic content will have a pop/click at the stop or end point.
This is exactly what I thought. The clicking sounds very similar to the result of cutting and pasting different audio wav's together on my DAW without crossfading. Also, some pages ago, another user reported on trying different new mimeophones out of the box in his own case, always experiencing the same issues, then swapping the new ones for a possibly older model from the local vendor's display case, which apparently did not have any of the clicking issues. Does this point more towards a software or a hardware issue ?
I write this here in case the people from MN read this thread to look for possible solutions to this problem.
I want to stress again that the clicking appears even without any modulation, and at all the different (low/high) input gains I've tried so far.
I, for one, would be glad if this issue could be solved, as I feel that the module is completely unparalleled in its potential and love it for what it can do.
Yeah, when I tried a few that's what it sounded like to me. A big part of what makes Mimeophon special is all the rhythmic complexity you can get with independent zone and rate controls, while externally clocked. Clickless crossfading between rates is what makes that possible, as Make Noise describes it. The bug I was hearing sounded like that crossfading often failed to occur, resulting in two sounds: the kinds of clicks and pops you'd expect from chopping audio without proper fades, and chirps like you'd expect from a rapid delay-rate change. Those two sounds are natural for a clocked delay to make, but it sounds like Make Noise went though some effort to disguise them with crossfades, and the bit of code that accomplishes that may have a bug. They show up in the dry signal as well, which is unexpected but may be related to that bug. I wish Make Noise the best of luck in troubleshooting, and I think we owe them some understanding and patience.

The complaints about background hiss are something else, and I agree that can be solved with gain staging. I also agree with Make Noise that a small amount of hiss and coloration gives it character, and it makes it possible to play in Karplus-Strong feedback mode with nothing connected to the input.

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by viroxx » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:55 pm

It's nice that Make Noise answered but their answer isn't clear. Are they working on a solution or do we all have to return it to the store?

"Fast modulation of the delay time on simple sounds like sine waves is near-guaranteed to cause some discontinuities that manifest as “clicks.”"
We're not talking about fast modulations, the clicks appear when I rotate the rate knob very slowly.
We're not talking about sine waves either, I tried several oscillators and clicks are always there.
And again, they appear when the mix is at zero!

"If you feel that the sonic behavior of your Mimeophon makes it unusable for your practice, we recommend returning it to the store you bought it from."
I don't live in USA or Europe, to get this module I had to order from the USA and wait almost two months for it. Returning it is a big hassle, I was hoping to send it back to Make Noise for some kind of repair, because it seems not all Mimeophons suffer from this issue.

" If you have a Eurorack delay module that you trust to undergo heavy modulation on sine-based material without causing any clicks, please let us know"
I wrote them about my Imitor Versio that never produces any clicks.

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by r05c03 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:04 pm

Boo.
Fucking.
Hoo.
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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by afaafa » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:55 pm

Clearly this module has inspired a lot of passion. That is because it is a GREAT module.

Some want to report problems they're having and some want to defend it, both are understandable. But let's not attack each other. And let's not fool ourselves into thinking this forum is the best place for customer service from Make Noise. It is a synth company's choice whether to participate here and this conversation is exhibit A of why many choose not to. If anything good comes of this discussion, it is to corroborate our experiences to hopefully help Make Noise troubleshoot what may be a bug affecting a subset of a module that many are using happily. Threatening to boycott them because they do not post here (even though they were responding to emails) is biting the hand that feeds you.

It is a stressful time to be alive right now. We need to remember we are all living through it together, and so are the good people at Make Noise. Let's take out our stress by making some weird sounds.

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by exper » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:00 pm

Well said, afaafa.
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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by hawkfuzz » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:43 pm

This is the point I keep making afaafa!!

TF kinda attitude some of you goofies have about how to fix a problem with a manufacturer really perplexes me. Telling your friends about your problems with your SO and then being mad your SO isn't fixing the issue as if you told them and not your friends is goofy.

Acting like any eurorack modular manufacturer with(the exception of the recent addition of Behringer) a product you don't gel with or isn't working as them being evil or taking advantage of people and their "hard earned cash"(what does that phrase means anymore) bugs me out so much.

This thread for some reason really fires me up and I don't know why and I wish it didn't.

We are all getting weird and it's weirding me out.
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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by 0netwo0netwo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:52 pm

hawkfuzz wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:43 pm

We are all getting weird and it's weirding me out.


im pretty sure ive always been weird, but i feel that

the world just isnt fun anymore

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by afaafa » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:56 am

Many things feel out of our control right now. I understand the urge to want to fix your gear, fix your creative process, win an argument online just to feel in control of something. Amid all the real hardship, the truth has been so twisted and trampled that our desire to be right, to set the record straight, is stronger than ever. If we could come together we would realize we share that, but instead we are apart so we have to voice that feeling online where it feels fleeting and disposable.

Be understanding with yourselves. We have survived pandemics. We have survived insurrections. The healing will be hard won but this too shall pass. I just want to come out on the other side kinder, weirder, and a little more musical.

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by viroxx » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:11 am

There is no need to take things personally here and no need to get in conflict with each other.
It's a pretty simple and non personal situation. A faulty module that produces unwanted loud clicks is being sold (not a module "I don't gel with", that's different.).
People have been contacting make noise through emails for a while and getting responses saying "it is what it is" or to return it to the store.
What we're left with is to voice our frustration here, and we should be able to do that without being criticized.

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by hawkfuzz » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:34 am

Your rhetoric is the frustrating part.

I've tried at length to replicate your issues and I've had no luck. If you go through the thread there's people experiencing certain issues that others are not. I think what you're experiencing isn't similar to the majority of users and I don't think what you're experiencing is what most the people with issues are experiencing. I wonder if it's power just because of the DRY still producing sounds...maybe cross talk...dunno

I do think this is for you and MN to figure out. Troubleshooting how modules interact might help. Different clocks might help. Read a few things about PNW not working properly with certain modules.

It seems like it's difficult for you to acquire modules and I'm sure that's annoying, but that's not MN's fault. If you have a faulty module you'll have to go through the steps like anyone else would.
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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by hawkfuzz » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:12 am

You don’t speak for me. This isn’t a committee meeting. Stop being a weirdo and email them and talk about it. This is just gross childishness.

The color audio repeater isn’t just marketing. It’s why it is different. Fuzz is distortion but not all distortion is fuzz. Overdrive is distortion but not all distortion is overdrive. Glitch delays aren’t bbd delays.



Post I was replying to a post that has been erased
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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by afaafa » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:20 pm

Hawkfuzz, belittling others doesn't help your case. I'm glad yours works, mine does too, but I had to go through a few to get it so I know this bug is real.

This conversation should be about problem solving, not about being right. We all want the same thing in the end, and we should work together professionally and empathetically to help Make Noise iron out any kinks, if we can be of any help.

viroxx and DaShmoop, Make Noise's response to return it if you are not happy is correct. If you are not immediately happy with a module, the best course of action is to return it and wait for them to publish a firmware update. You can always buy it again in the future. Returns are the best way to put pressure on them to troubleshoot, forum posts are not. The reason they are not giving you any guarantees is that debugging takes an unpredictable amount of time, especially for a small team.

Continuing to use a module that is an increasing source of frustration, to the point of anger at the company, is a bit silly. Just get rid of it. I know you want that Mimeophon magic now, but better to wait and have a synth that completely satisfies you than to cause yourself additional stress that will take you away from music making.

Edit: I don't want to accuse anyone of this, but if your goal in posting here is pressure the company into resolving this issue faster by threatening their public reputation, it won't work. Forum posts are not as influential as you think, and it reflects more poorly on you than it does the company.

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by hawkfuzz » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:49 pm

I don't think I belittle. Apologies if so.
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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by h1ghfiv3 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:54 pm

Just wanted to give a heads up and inform you that the good people at MN reacted very supportively to my clicking issue. In fact, they offered me to inspect it at their headquarters for further troubleshooting (full shipping cost included), which I am only not doing because I live in Germany, and shipping overseas takes ages these days. I am deciding to swap it out for another unit at thomann and test my luck.
However, I encourage anyone living in the US and experiencing similar issues as I to just write them. I can only stress the fact that they take it very seriously and do not brush it off as "it is what it is", as suggested earlier. It would probably help everybody if they were able to inspect as many faulty units as possible

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by hawkfuzz » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:00 pm

No surprises. Congrats.
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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by Xtheunknown » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:35 am

h1ghfiv3 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:54 pm
Just wanted to give a heads up and inform you that the good people at MN reacted very supportively to my clicking issue. In fact, they offered me to inspect it at their headquarters for further troubleshooting (full shipping cost included), which I am only not doing because I live in Germany, and shipping overseas takes ages these days. I am deciding to swap it out for another unit at thomann and test my luck.
However, I encourage anyone living in the US and experiencing similar issues as I to just write them. I can only stress the fact that they take it very seriously and do not brush it off as "it is what it is", as suggested earlier. It would probably help everybody if they were able to inspect as many faulty units as possible
Might you be able to update us on the outcome of this exercise with the Make Noise team? Like many others, I too have wanted a Mimeophon for a while, but I’m holding off until the glitches have been resolved. All of my Make Noise modules have performed flawlessly and I’m hoping that they can get things fixed. Thanks to everyone for surfacing the issues...

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by Jopy » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:09 pm

h1ghfiv3 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:54 pm
Just wanted to give a heads up and inform you that the good people at MN reacted very supportively to my clicking issue. In fact, they offered me to inspect it at their headquarters for further troubleshooting (full shipping cost included), which I am only not doing because I live in Germany, and shipping overseas takes ages these days. I am deciding to swap it out for another unit at thomann and test my luck.
However, I encourage anyone living in the US and experiencing similar issues as I to just write them. I can only stress the fact that they take it very seriously and do not brush it off as "it is what it is", as suggested earlier. It would probably help everybody if they were able to inspect as many faulty units as possible
Since I was having a similar issue with my recently purchased Mimeophon, I also sent details (video+audio) to MN today based on this encouragement. They already got back to me multiple times to ask follow up questions, and have asked me to send it in (shipping costs covered), all within 4 hours of when I first reached out. So, thanks for proposing this h1ghfiv3, my experience was basically identical to yours except I'm in the US so it's easier for me to do the mailing.

I do have to say that I was reluctant to send it in just because I don't use tempo sync very often, and that's the only condition under which I had any glitches. Otherwise it's a very groovy little music-making-computer-unit type thing.

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by NoLegs » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:13 pm

Xtheunknown wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:35 am
h1ghfiv3 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:54 pm
Just wanted to give a heads up and inform you that the good people at MN reacted very supportively to my clicking issue. In fact, they offered me to inspect it at their headquarters for further troubleshooting (full shipping cost included), which I am only not doing because I live in Germany, and shipping overseas takes ages these days. I am deciding to swap it out for another unit at thomann and test my luck.
However, I encourage anyone living in the US and experiencing similar issues as I to just write them. I can only stress the fact that they take it very seriously and do not brush it off as "it is what it is", as suggested earlier. It would probably help everybody if they were able to inspect as many faulty units as possible
Might you be able to update us on the outcome of this exercise with the Make Noise team? Like many others, I too have wanted a Mimeophon for a while, but I’m holding off until the glitches have been resolved. All of my Make Noise modules have performed flawlessly and I’m hoping that they can get things fixed. Thanks to everyone for surfacing the issues...
I’m so glad I didn’t wait until the glitches were resolved. I’ve had the module for almost 2 years and it was easily my favorite module of 2019, and has been an unending source of inspiration.

For the record I’ve had no noise floor issues, and no glitching/clicking issues, but if I did I would’ve just returned it and gotten a refund.
Last edited by NoLegs on Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by starthief » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:26 pm

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for Doepfer to respond to a question I emailed 17 days ago about a problem with one of their modules... :deadbanana:

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by h1ghfiv3 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:33 pm

NoLegs wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:13 pm
Xtheunknown wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:35 am
h1ghfiv3 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:54 pm
Just wanted to give a heads up and inform you that the good people at MN reacted very supportively to my clicking issue. In fact, they offered me to inspect it at their headquarters for further troubleshooting (full shipping cost included), which I am only not doing because I live in Germany, and shipping overseas takes ages these days. I am deciding to swap it out for another unit at thomann and test my luck.
However, I encourage anyone living in the US and experiencing similar issues as I to just write them. I can only stress the fact that they take it very seriously and do not brush it off as "it is what it is", as suggested earlier. It would probably help everybody if they were able to inspect as many faulty units as possible
Might you be able to update us on the outcome of this exercise with the Make Noise team? Like many others, I too have wanted a Mimeophon for a while, but I’m holding off until the glitches have been resolved. All of my Make Noise modules have performed flawlessly and I’m hoping that they can get things fixed. Thanks to everyone for surfacing the issues...
I’m so glad I didn’t wait until the glitches were resolved. I’ve had the module for almost 2 years and it was easily my favorite module of 2019, and has been an unending source of inspiration.

For the record I’ve had no noise floor issues, and no glitching/clicking issues, but if I did I would’ve just returned it and gotten a refund.
Probably would’ve immediately swapped it out without writing them had I not seen this thread before and people reporting similar issues. In case an actual wide-spread bug gets spotted and fixed this way, everybody wins in the end.

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Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by axm311 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:46 pm

Jopy wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:09 pm
h1ghfiv3 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:54 pm
Just wanted to give a heads up and inform you that the good people at MN reacted very supportively to my clicking issue. In fact, they offered me to inspect it at their headquarters for further troubleshooting (full shipping cost included), which I am only not doing because I live in Germany, and shipping overseas takes ages these days. I am deciding to swap it out for another unit at thomann and test my luck.
However, I encourage anyone living in the US and experiencing similar issues as I to just write them. I can only stress the fact that they take it very seriously and do not brush it off as "it is what it is", as suggested earlier. It would probably help everybody if they were able to inspect as many faulty units as possible
Since I was having a similar issue with my recently purchased Mimeophon, I also sent details (video+audio) to MN today based on this encouragement. They already got back to me multiple times to ask follow up questions, and have asked me to send it in (shipping costs covered), all within 4 hours of when I first reached out. So, thanks for proposing this h1ghfiv3, my experience was basically identical to yours except I'm in the US so it's easier for me to do the mailing.

I do have to say that I was reluctant to send it in just because I don't use tempo sync very often, and that's the only condition under which I had any glitches. Otherwise it's a very groovy little music-making-computer-unit type thing.
Keep us posted on what they find, I just got mine but am also reluctant to send it in unless it’s actually something fixable since I also don’t foresee modulating rate often clocked. Plus I find it very dependent on the source material, in a busy patch everything just gels together. I have been using it 100% wet on its own channel to work around the digital straw sucking sound in the dry signal

I will say although I am a “click / dry noise floor” truther this is an incredibly inspiring module. Made a great recording last night but need to host it somewhere to share

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