Adding warmth / saturation / crud

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Luke2020

Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by Luke2020 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:35 pm

used to like boss overdrive pedals for something like this

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thelowerrhythm
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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by thelowerrhythm » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:23 am

Gringo Starr wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:17 pm
thelowerrhythm wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:14 pm
I've been trying to get my computer out of the mix, so to speak, for a while... and I realized just recently that the only thing I really need it for is to add tube / tape saturation and cruddiness / warmth to my mixes. I can get part of the way using filters, but I'm hoping to save them for other tasks, and want to maybe find a solution that sits in between my modular and my Portastudio. I mostly make very still, wall-of-sound drones that go stereo near the end of the chain, and it seems like the Erica Fusion Mixer is a no brainer, and if it doesn't get quite dingy enough I can stick a QPAS after it. Any other suggestions?

As a side note, I'm really happy with the part of this that the Instant Lofi Junky addresses, but it's a bit too heavy handed to use all of the time.
Not sure if you've jumped on anything yet but a piece of gear I'm interested in and that I never see talked about is the Drawmer 1976. The demos I've heard sound very pleasing. It's worth a look.
I used to have a few of these when I worked as a studio engineer... totally killer piece of gear. It's unfortunately way too expensive to consider here, but a good suggestion nonetheless. I wound up buying a Tanh and that Erica fusion mixer the other night and got a chance to play with them today. Both definitely help me go in the direction I want, so that's cool.
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sempervirent
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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by sempervirent » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:27 pm

Sub $100 guitar pedals, junk mixers, and $20 tape recorders on eBay will work wonders.

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by Accelra » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:45 pm

Strymon DECO is good for adding warmth and saturation.

I run stuff through my pair of Roland RE-501 tape echoes and it sounds nice, even with no FX engaged.

Erica Synths do a bunch of modules with valves in. That'll help as well.

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by natureclubcassettes » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:19 pm

sempervirent wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:27 pm
Sub $100 guitar pedals, junk mixers, and $20 tape recorders on eBay will work wonders.
truth.

another trick, if you have a stereo mixer/panner like Azimuth II, is to send a mult of your main sound source to the CV input of the panner. I occasionally do this with one of the outs of my ResEQ.

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by snakejaw » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:11 am

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:33 am
stay in the computer?
http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/dyn ... gewarmer2/

or go all out
https://www.thermionicculture.com/index ... -02-detail

I think sometimes all you need is the right EQ and the right mix. adding saturation increases harmonics. filtering decreases harmonics. a tube module does both. it really depends what you are going for. that depends on what the problem is. I have been mixing for years. I have lots of tricks up my sleeve. I don't think the solution is inserting saturation on the master bus. the solution is subtle modulation on the volume, panning and the filter cutoff. you should definitely use the QPAS for stereo filtering but you need to get the two sides doing different things. you can also look at stereo width techniques. mid side techniques. if you had an allen and heath mix wizard 16 you can do a lot of EQ and panning right there. it also adds subtle warmth because it is a british console. the sends can be used to add reverb, chorus, phasers etc.. when I mixed live shows the production company had multiple rack units each was a multi FX unit. they were hooked into the mix wizard. this allowed us to make a good enough recreation of the reverbs etc... that we heard the band use on the studio album.
EATyourGUITAR, could you say a little more about "subtle modulation on the volume, panning and the filter cutoff" and how you use it and say a bit more about what effects you get? Are you speaking about general mixing techniques or is this a way to add warmth to a track without adding additional distortion? I often want to pile "more" processing to my tracks. But I notice that there's a whole area of subtle techniques using just the kind of simple elements you mention that is currently beyond my current knowledge and experience. (Of course, I could search around and Google the things you'd mentioned, but I'd really like to hear your thoughts and experiences. Thanks!)

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by Black_Materia » Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:59 pm

+1 for Tanh, love it. It can have a significant effect yet still be subtle and not totally change the input material.

Instruo's filters all have really nice input overdrive circuits. The traigh is a standard ladder filter, but it has three inputs with sliders that drive over 50 percent. love using that as a pre-fx mixer with saturation and tone control.

Verbos Amp&Tone is another beautiful warmer, as are pentode/valve vca's.

The Cosmotronic Cosmix has an interesting drive/maximiser circuit that really shines on drums.

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by BlinkyLights » Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:28 pm

Metasonix is where the cool crud comes from.

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by snakejaw » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:30 pm

Eric extrudes it from a hidden gland.

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by RhythmDroid » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:42 pm

I've used Analog Heat and OTO Boum and I prefer the Boum...in fact, I love the Boum
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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by funeralcake » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:42 pm

I've recently discovered that the Synthrotek Roboto is good for dirtying signals if you turn up the input level and turn the mix all the way down, or close to zero. It makes the brush kit from the General CV sound like old school Hip-Hop drum samples: Darker, more saturated, more compressed.
useless

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by snakejaw » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:23 pm

RhythmDroid wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:42 pm
I've used Analog Heat and OTO Boum and I prefer the Boum...in fact, I love the Boum
I have the AH Mk1. What do you especially like about the BOUM?

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by RhythmDroid » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:31 pm

snakejaw wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:23 pm
RhythmDroid wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:42 pm
I've used Analog Heat and OTO Boum and I prefer the Boum...in fact, I love the Boum
I have the AH Mk1. What do you especially like about the BOUM?
The Heat is still a great tool.. but I just enjoy the sound of the Boum's warmth more, it's less "broken up"--and the built-in compressor is more immediate than the Heat.
Technically the Heat allows you to "design" some very interesting effects, but I wanted to be able to dial in a compressed and thickened sound quickly.
IG: RhythmDroid

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snakejaw
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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by snakejaw » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:35 am

Thanks! The BOUM does seem impressive. In the BOUM it looks like the compressor is first in the signal chain. I think I'll try putting my FMR pbc-6a in front of my AH and see what I get.

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by Chopper » Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:18 am

Tape.

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by autopoiesis » Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:24 am

Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:17 pm
boss bx series
:tu:

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:22 pm

autopoiesis wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:24 am
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:17 pm
boss bx series
:tu:
:cookiemonster:
TOO FAR GONE

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by johny_gtr » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:51 pm

saturation - old US/Japan/Germany mixers from 70-80's era for pleasant saturation
old US/Japan 90's era mixers for techno/aggressive saturation (like BX mentioned above)
their line clones (they are good) from Feedback Modular (both Boss\Roland KM/BX series and Mackie). I have one (KM) - it's good.
Moog CP3 clones mixers (they are also good for saturation/drive)

Verbos ATC (ver1) can add some pleasant drive.

from modern boxes I vote for OTO Boum - good and easy compressor/exiter, LF/HF (quite good even in comparison with MU filters), drive section, blend wet/dry and noise gate as a bonus. Their Bam/Bim is also good in no primary function enabled (only 12 bit convertors and filters)
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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by Kattefjaes » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:03 pm

Polyterative wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:26 am
I went with a Lyra8fx (a bit metallic and "boxy" but still nice) and a Belgrad (filter with a tube simulation in the last 15 of the gain knob).
I love putting the two in series
I love the Lyra-8 fx, but oddly, really like it with really short delays on at least one side and very high feedback, so it does a sort of sustaining crunchy howl. it takes a bit of tweaking to get there often, but I really do enjoy it. It's not really boxy or metallic- more a mechanical drone. Works great on bass.

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:35 pm

snakejaw wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:11 am
EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:33 am
stay in the computer?
http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/dyn ... gewarmer2/

or go all out
https://www.thermionicculture.com/index ... -02-detail

I think sometimes all you need is the right EQ and the right mix. adding saturation increases harmonics. filtering decreases harmonics. a tube module does both. it really depends what you are going for. that depends on what the problem is. I have been mixing for years. I have lots of tricks up my sleeve. I don't think the solution is inserting saturation on the master bus. the solution is subtle modulation on the volume, panning and the filter cutoff. you should definitely use the QPAS for stereo filtering but you need to get the two sides doing different things. you can also look at stereo width techniques. mid side techniques. if you had an allen and heath mix wizard 16 you can do a lot of EQ and panning right there. it also adds subtle warmth because it is a british console. the sends can be used to add reverb, chorus, phasers etc.. when I mixed live shows the production company had multiple rack units each was a multi FX unit. they were hooked into the mix wizard. this allowed us to make a good enough recreation of the reverbs etc... that we heard the band use on the studio album.
EATyourGUITAR, could you say a little more about "subtle modulation on the volume, panning and the filter cutoff" and how you use it and say a bit more about what effects you get? Are you speaking about general mixing techniques or is this a way to add warmth to a track without adding additional distortion? I often want to pile "more" processing to my tracks. But I notice that there's a whole area of subtle techniques using just the kind of simple elements you mention that is currently beyond my current knowledge and experience. (Of course, I could search around and Google the things you'd mentioned, but I'd really like to hear your thoughts and experiences. Thanks!)
this is asking me to teach everything in a few sentences but I will give you the short version. in all those old recordings of things that were recorded with microphones or electric guitars etc.. the sources were dynamic. people were moving. none of those old mics were clean. they recorded to tape. wow and flutter is a real thing. the tape machine had a tube in it. people were moving away from the mic during the performance. the tape adds saturation. the consoles had cross talk that was sometimes out of phase in rare cases. so many things were less than perfect in any vintage recording. when you stay in the box or the modular you have been completely deprived of all these sources of variation that you would normally get for free on a zepplin ablum. one of the recordings that zepplin (maybe it was pink floyd?) did has a phone ringing in the background but they left it in the recording. I have even taken recordings of power supply hum to add to the mix for a more vintage feel. a perfect example would be the power supply hum from an arp 2600. you really really need that to convince someone on a subliminal level that what they are hearing is vintage.

so the problem is not really a lack of the perfect saturation plugin. it is probably more likely that the mix has no dynamics. the filters or EQ have no modulation. the modern equipment has switching power supplies and also a lower noise floor. that 60Hz or 50Hz hum should probably be in there very very low as one part of a healthy dose. tape hiss is also important like the power supply hum. but that is just added hiss. You can decide if you actually want your singer's voice to have tape saturation, wow and flutter, volume modulation etc.. The goal is not to make any one thing overtly modulated. the goal is to make the mix less like an in the box mix and more like a vintage mix. the goal is the perception of vintage by having characteristics that people naturally associate with vintage both consciously and subconsciously. The only thing you will find on the master bus is an SSL compressor or an 1176 if you go back a little more. most of the EQ is handled per channel but master EQ is actually handled by adjusting the volumes of each channel. if the singer and the guitars are all mids then pushing up or down would result in a master EQ of mids. Mastering engineers love to send your stuff back when the mix is bad. They will tell you the problem can't be fixed with mastering. They know that you should never ever ever (ever) try to fix a bad mix with a master EQ. Mastering EQ is for subtle changes where sending it back as fail would be a waste of time. A perfect mix can also happen so sometimes the mastering engineer will perform the crucial job of do nothing and send it back as mastering complete. This is not a scam. This is %100 appropriate in those rare cases where they find no mistakes with a finished mix.
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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by pekbro » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:45 pm

I bought one of these for that (dist, sat, crud etc), tho it's still pre-order.



https://www.modulargrid.net/e/animal-factory-amplification-orobas

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by studio460 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:05 pm

Here's what I've got:

• ART VLA PROII tube opto-compressor. I run all my analog synths though it (some digital ones, too!).
• Engl E530 guitar preamp. Just added it into the rack to experiment with my modular.
• Re-amping! Send your output to a tube guitar amp/head → real speaker cabinet → Shure SM57 or large-diaphragm condenser mic → tube-based mic-preamp (e.g., Behringer Ultragain Pro) → USB interface → DAW.

The ART''s tube-effect is pretty subtle, but darned useful as a compressor. Though, in my view, nothing compares to the sonic landscape you can get by re-amping. I've heard a lot about the Boum and Analog Heat. Possibly a tube-based guitar pedal may work. Old tube-amplification circuits should work, too. Many claim the Culture Vulture is a magic bullet, but way too expensive.

In modular, I have a Noise Engineering Viol Ruina and I'm not that impressed (interested in comparing it to the Terci Ruina, though). Or maybe it's just that the Schlappi 100 Grit just sounds so much better. Someone mentioned a Big Muff-type module in another thread from Frequency Central: Meth Amp, which sounds amazing.
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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by JuliusRe » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:34 am

+1 for the Feedback Modules Pre BX - lovely rough sound
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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by Morim » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:01 pm

+1 for Tanh, gives a warm and fuzzy feeling, in a nice way.
(Also good for giving Pico Drum some extra 'oumpf' in the mix)

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Re: Adding warmth / saturation / crud

Post by daphnid » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:38 am

I have a boss bx mixer I got for like $20, it's got some pretty gnarly sounding overdrive, I don't love it, but it can sound great on drums sometimes. I much prefer overdriving the pres on my Mackie CR1604 though.

Certain old dbx compressors, Roland spring reverbs, some bbd delays are great for warmth and saturation.

I've actually gotten great results with plugins. I like Satin, and use a lot of parallel processing with drum buss, pedal, amp, and saturator in Ableton. It's all about subtly mixing and layering them in effects racks. It took me a while to believe I could get quality saturation in the box, but there are a lot of good options actually.

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