The modules that should exist (but don't)

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Graham Hinton
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Post by Graham Hinton » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:51 am

VM wrote: This might be too stupid or niche to work, and I might be sleep-deprived, but I *want* it to exist, which is the point of this thread
You've just try to re-invent PFL and made a poorer version.

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VM
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Post by VM » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:49 am

Graham Hinton wrote:
VM wrote: This might be too stupid or niche to work, and I might be sleep-deprived, but I *want* it to exist, which is the point of this thread
You've just try to re-invent PFL and made a poorer version.
Thanks for bringing this module+expander combo to my attention. Is my design "poorer" because of the amount of redundancy, or the build (im)practicalities, or some other reason?
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ericD13
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Post by ericD13 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:58 am

Graham Hinton wrote: You've just try to re-invent PFL and made a poorer version.
What is PFL ?
"Unfortunately it took me forty years to conclude that nothing is possible outside DoReMi."
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Post by cackland » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:02 am

ericD13 wrote:
Graham Hinton wrote: You've just try to re-invent PFL and made a poorer version.
What is PFL ?
Pre Fade Listen
Audition the channels signal prior to the fader

There is also AFL (After Fade Listen) - Opposite of PFL
Audition the channels signal from a point immediately after the fader, showing the level of the channel's contribution to the mix.

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Post by R.U.Nuts » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:12 am

BUT neither PFL or AFL will remove a signal from the main mix while you're monitoring it. You'd also need to mute it.

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Post by Graham Hinton » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:04 am

VM wrote:Is my design "poorer" because of the amount of redundancy, or the build (im)practicalities, or some other reason?
It is poorer because you can only use the monitor for that one purpose. On mixers that have PFL the monitored channel is switched to a PFL bus and the monitor is switched from Mix to the PFL us too, the rest of the time you can monitor the main output. If you want stereo PFL too that is going to take more poles than you get on a toggle switch, which is why most mixers use push switches with 4 or 6 poles.
R.U.Nuts wrote:BUT neither PFL or AFL will remove a signal from the main mix while you're monitoring it. You'd also need to mute it.
That is the job of the fader and why it is called PRE Fade Listen. In general it is undesirable to have monitoring change the main mix.

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Post by R.U.Nuts » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:43 pm

Graham Hinton wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:BUT neither PFL or AFL will remove a signal from the main mix while you're monitoring it. You'd also need to mute it.
That is the job of the fader and why it is called PRE Fade Listen. In general it is undesirable to have monitoring change the main mix.
Right but VM's idea was a mixer that automatically removes the signal from the main mix while you're monitoring it (if I understood it right). Some Mackie mixers use the mute button to also route the signal to a sub bus while it's muted. That's a pretty cool feature. I use this to route signals through a FX unit. I also abuse the PFL bus to route signals through a delay for dubby momentary delay FX.

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forrest
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Post by forrest » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:52 pm

nso_music wrote:an actually compact (6-8hp) random module with no nonsense, just 6+ outputs of smooth or stepped random CV, with a clock input to control rate. built-in little attenuverters on each output and you have my dream module.
Basically an NLC triple sloth.

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Post by Foghorn » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:59 am

EDIT:

DOH, posted in wrong thread. :hmm:

Meant to post in:
.......Modules that exist, but shouldn't

Foghorn :despair:

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Post by miles_macquarrie » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:31 pm

Most Wanted Non Existent Module:

A Complex CV recorder with Multiple Outputs, Lots of recall of stored cv, Editing Capabilities, A Screen, and the ability to record CV, Triggers, Gates,
and then output all of that quantized or unquantized. Instant buy
FS/FT: Turing Machine, 1010 Toolbox

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Post by Daisuk » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:49 pm

miles_macquarrie wrote:Most Wanted Non Existent Module:

A Complex CV recorder with Multiple Outputs, Lots of recall of stored cv, Editing Capabilities, A Screen, and the ability to record CV, Triggers, Gates,
and then output all of that quantized or unquantized. Instant buy
Sounds like Squarp's Hermod to me. :hihi:

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Post by Hirsbro » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:17 am

An euclidean trigger sequencer with knob and vc in per function (length, fill and rotate) Grids and 2hp Euclid are close functionally. Preferably with a screen for vusual feedback, like in squarp pyramid :love:

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cackland
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Post by cackland » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:48 am

Hirsbro wrote:An euclidean trigger sequencer with knob and vc in per function (length, fill and rotate) Grids and 2hp Euclid are close functionally. Preferably with a screen for vusual feedback, like in squarp pyramid :love:
Without any experience on the Pyramid, but can't this be done already?

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Daisuk
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Post by Daisuk » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:49 am

cackland wrote:
Hirsbro wrote:An euclidean trigger sequencer with knob and vc in per function (length, fill and rotate) Grids and 2hp Euclid are close functionally. Preferably with a screen for vusual feedback, like in squarp pyramid :love:
Without any experience on the Pyramid, but can't this be done already?
You can with squarp Hermod, but it only has four cv inputs. You can route those 4 cv inputs to anywhere and multiple times thanks to the modulation matrix though.

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gringostar
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Post by gringostar » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:05 am

I wonder how hard it would be to reprogram the A-160-2 so that the 2-128 divider can instead be the fibonacci sequence.

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Post by Mawkeyz » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:06 pm

2HP utility module with 1 input and 2-4 buffered outputs. One coarse knob, one fine knob for bi-directional voltage scaling. Scaling means it spreads the input voltage range out or narrows it - not just a voltage offset. Especially useful for pitch CV because 1V/octave isn't necessarily 1V/octave.

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Post by R.U.Nuts » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:07 am

A 4MS DLD MK II which breaks out the hidden functions of the DLD, adds voltage control for the scrub feature adds start/stop and reset transport controls and a switch that toggles between no repitch and repitch behaviour when changing delay times.

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Post by Aelitafrommars » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:48 am

Natural Gates, but with either button toggle switchable (or attenuvertable) "memory" built in, so you can more easily play it more like any typical instrument (ie quick drum rolls or rapid string plucks in succession typically lowers the force of the strike in favour of precision).

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Post by cackland » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:38 am

R.U.Nuts wrote:A 4MS DLD MK II which breaks out the hidden functions of the DLD, adds voltage control for the scrub feature adds start/stop and reset transport controls and a switch that toggles between no repitch and repitch behaviour when changing delay times.
This would be interesting to see.

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Post by Hirsbro » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:40 am

Daisuk wrote:
cackland wrote:
Hirsbro wrote:An euclidean trigger sequencer with knob and vc in per function (length, fill and rotate) Grids and 2hp Euclid are close functionally. Preferably with a screen for vusual feedback, like in squarp pyramid :love:
Without any experience on the Pyramid, but can't this be done already?
You can with squarp Hermod, but it only has four cv inputs. You can route those 4 cv inputs to anywhere and multiple times thanks to the modulation matrix though.
Yes you can and I have hermod but you don't have a knob per function wich was my point/wish otherwise there are plenty of options out there and combinations of various other modules that can get your there without visual feedback

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Post by MvK » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:27 am

a 4x4 stereo matrix mixer. Expandable into x and y direction.
a quad (or more) chromatic quantizer (without scales) in 4hp, only jacks.
a timestretching and slicing sampler from rossum
a delay and reverb module from Synth Tech.
a stereo tri-band compressor.
an octal sine-bank with individual outputs. You would have one fundamental (leftmost) and you could then save many presets containing the intervals of the remaining 7 sine oscs. Nice for audiorate modulation of everything.
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Post by Daisuk » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:13 am

Hirsbro wrote:
Daisuk wrote:
cackland wrote:
Hirsbro wrote:An euclidean trigger sequencer with knob and vc in per function (length, fill and rotate) Grids and 2hp Euclid are close functionally. Preferably with a screen for vusual feedback, like in squarp pyramid :love:
Without any experience on the Pyramid, but can't this be done already?
You can with squarp Hermod, but it only has four cv inputs. You can route those 4 cv inputs to anywhere and multiple times thanks to the modulation matrix though.
Yes you can and I have hermod but you don't have a knob per function wich was my point/wish otherwise there are plenty of options out there and combinations of various other modules that can get your there without visual feedback
Yeah, agreed, that would be great! :)

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Post by steffie268 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:51 am

I'm still in the research phase prior to building my first rack - I'm not new to synthesis but modular does present some nice new challenges ;)
In any case, the first thing I'd think of trying to DIY would be a multiple with an attenuator on each output and a switch to off-set the voltage by +2,5 V.
Why? Let's say you want to send an LFO to multiple destinations...Some may accept -2,5 to +2,5 V while others might require 0-+5V... Also in some destinations the control pot for the input might act as an attenuator but it might also act as an off-set, in which case the signal might have to be attenuated prior to entering... If you could do that in a single module, wouldn't that be very conventient? Or have I missed the point?

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Post by MvK » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:04 am

steffie268 wrote:I'm still in the research phase prior to building my first rack - I'm not new to synthesis but modular does present some nice new challenges ;)
In any case, the first thing I'd think of trying to DIY would be a multiple with an attenuator on each output and a switch to off-set the voltage by +2,5 V.
Why? Let's say you want to send an LFO to multiple destinations...Some may accept -2,5 to +2,5 V while others might require 0-+5V... Also in some destinations the control pot for the input might act as an attenuator but it might also act as an off-set, in which case the signal might have to be attenuated prior to entering... If you could do that in a single module, wouldn't that be very conventient? Or have I missed the point?
no, you're not missing the point :-) these kinds of tools are actually very important parts of modular and they make your great big super high end modules work. Concerning your project I'd suggest attenuversion. That way you're not only able to decrease the modulation depth of an output, you can also invert the modulation. That can be very useful. Example: you modulate the filter frequency with the sum of an AD-envelope and a LFO. While the LFO output goes directly to the cutoff freq. The negative version of it can modulate something like the level (via VCA) or the decay time of the envelope at a certain "negative" depth. That way, every time the LFO goes up the impact of the envelope is reduced. Useful to keep your modulation "window" in check.

something like this comes to mind as an inspiration for your project:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/livestock ... nics-felix

The selection of the right tools depends highly on the modules you want to modulate. A 2-4hp Filter will likely have less attenuation on its CV inputs than a 10-20hp one.

Offset:
Also very dependent on your modulation destinations. Sometimes you just don't need it because many "parameters" have their own knob which is nothing but an offset (a fixed voltage that is added (mixed) to a signal) In the example above it is the cutoff knob of the filter. Its also ok the modulate the filter bipolar. In that case you set the zero point with the cutoff knob (offset) but for many things offset is very important like if you want to have a bipolar signal modulate a VCA. Without offset only the positive portion of the signal would modulate, which can be great but if you want the whole signal it has to be unipolar.

But I wouldn't use a switch with a fixed voltage, because there are so many more applications for offset where you need different voltages.
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Post by Eurtrude » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:08 am

steffie268 wrote:I'm still in the research phase prior to building my first rack - I'm not new to synthesis but modular does present some nice new challenges ;)
In any case, the first thing I'd think of trying to DIY would be a multiple with an attenuator on each output and a switch to off-set the voltage by +2,5 V.
Why? Let's say you want to send an LFO to multiple destinations...Some may accept -2,5 to +2,5 V while others might require 0-+5V... Also in some destinations the control pot for the input might act as an attenuator but it might also act as an off-set, in which case the signal might have to be attenuated prior to entering... If you could do that in a single module, wouldn't that be very conventient? Or have I missed the point?
While I agree a module like this would be super useful to save quite a lot of patch cables / modules, some will say "this is modular so just use a multiple + attenuaverter module" :)

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