The modules that should exist (but don't)

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cg_funk
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Post by cg_funk » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:15 pm

Ok, so this module idea came to me in my sleep, and I had to wake up and take some notes down... it's a pretty strange module, but now I am in love with the idea of it.

The concept is like the love-child module of a Compare2 with a Clep Diaz. The module consists of two sections: a comparitor and a precision adder combined with a sample/hold.

Basically the idea is that the left side generates a random-ish variable for the right side. The right side uses this to decide to add or subtract the Sampled input from a stored voltage value. So, it's like a Clep Diaz, but it steps either up/down/or stays the same based on the comparitor state and step size.

The comparitor has to operate a little bit different from normal, since I need 3 possible states, so the way it works is: it outputs +5V if IN is above the window, -5V if IN is below the window, and 0V if the IN is within the window.

Each time a trigger is recieved, it checks the status of the comparitor stage and then either steps up or down. There's an attenuvertor on the input stage, normalled to a 5V, so you can set how big the steps are.

Depending on the signals inputs it might end up maxing out or bottoming out, so there's also a RESET input to reset the register back to 0V.

Ok, so after all that, I've drawn a little sketch of what the module would possibly look like, but I can't tell which parent module it would resemble more:

What do you all think? I am really into logic-based melodies.

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cackland
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Post by cackland » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:30 pm

Love the concept and the designs for both 'banana' companies.

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cg_funk
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Post by cg_funk » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:59 pm

Here's a little more detail in how I dreamt it would operate. I find graphs make this stuff easier to understand somehow, and I also enjoy making graphs.

So, with the step-size cv-able this could get really interesting, but I kept that constant for the graph.

Image

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Post by R.U.Nuts » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:56 am

cg_funk wrote:Here's a little more detail in how I dreamt it would operate. I find graphs make this stuff easier to understand somehow, and I also enjoy making graphs.

So, with the step-size cv-able this could get really interesting, but I kept that constant for the graph.

Image
That graph looks to me like a sine wave and another voltage slowly ramping up (triangle LFO maybe?) run through a mixer into a sample and hold. Step size could be adjusted with a bit crusher and an attenuator.

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cackland
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Post by cackland » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:00 am

I actually really like the concept. I don’t have either of the modules you reference your idea is based off so not sure if they are already able to achieve this. Assuming they can’t consideing your idea has formed.

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cg_funk
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Post by cg_funk » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:52 pm

R.U.Nuts wrote:
cg_funk wrote:Here's a little more detail in how I dreamt it would operate. I find graphs make this stuff easier to understand somehow, and I also enjoy making graphs.

So, with the step-size cv-able this could get really interesting, but I kept that constant for the graph.
That graph looks to me like a sine wave and another voltage slowly ramping up (triangle LFO maybe?) run through a mixer into a sample and hold. Step size could be adjusted with a bit crusher and an attenuator.
Yeah, that's actually fairly similar with regards to the types of outputs patterns you'd get, but the control scheme is not quite as nice that way. To get different patterns you'll have to mess around with your input waves or the mix in a non-intuitive way.

The way I have it drawn, we have basically only 3 knobs to turn: where the top one sets the step size, the middle one sets how much it's biased to ascend vs descend, and the bottom knob sets how much it stays put.. essentially. Then with CV inputs for all three, you can get lots of variety out of a few pretty simple inputs that do predictable things (but interact in more unpredictable ways).

Well.. it's just a weird idea... But I thought if I put it here it might inspire others to think about sequencing in new ways too.
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Post by pinhole_sunrise » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:01 pm

A 4hp Fixed Sine bank (not LFOs). 8 banks of sine waves set at different frequencies. Just a basic oscillator version of the Steady State Fate Quantum Rainbow no cv control. Maybe have jumpers on the backside for different sets of frequencies.
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stackable power cables?

Post by Foghorn » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:59 pm

OK, not exactly a module but

Why doesn't anyone make a "stackable power cable"

Ya know, stackable on the power header so that one header can have more than one power cable plugged into it.

OK, I have seen power cables that have more than one module plug on a longer than normal ribbon cable.

Wish I knew where I had seen it last, it's in that case.
No, maybe this one, or that one over there :hmm:
Frack :despair:

CRAP, I'm not taking all of these apart to look for it :confused:

Foghorn

someone please tell me they do exist and can be ordered from somewhere :help:

and stop hitting all those Emoticons :bang:
I'm not sure what's going on, but, well ah crap..what now?

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Post by nios » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:14 pm

How about an Emulator II or III synth voice (factory banks and filter at least)? Anyone ask Rossum about it? I tried searching to no avail; it's the crunched, aliased filtered sound of it that I really really like and is to my ear also distinct from just bitcrushing something to try to get that effect.

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Post by mskala » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:41 am

pinhole_sunrise wrote:A 4hp Fixed Sine bank (not LFOs). 8 banks of sine waves set at different frequencies. Just a basic oscillator version of the Steady State Fate Quantum Rainbow no cv control. Maybe have jumpers on the backside for different sets of frequencies.
For what it's worth, my FSB design could easily be made to run at audio frequencies just by swapping in smaller capacitors. Suitable caps for this purpose would be cheaper and easier to source than the ones I'm using for LFO rates anyway.

Eight oscillators in 4HP would be a stretch while keeping it through-hole and "skiff-friendly," but someone who wanted to go deeper and use surface-mount would probably find it easy enough to draw a PCB for that. Jumper-selected frequencies wouldn't be trivial but would at least be possible. And if it's running at audio frequencies, the LEDs are probably not useful and could be omitted, saving some panel space.

The reasons I don't usually promote it for audio use are that A. I think the fixed-frequency aspect is likely to be more annoying to users with audio than in LFO duty, and B. I think people who did want a fixed-frequency audio sine oscillator would probably like it to be tuned precisely (for instance to musical notes) even if it's not front-panel adjustable, and the need for tuning two RC circuits per oscillator makes that non-trivial. EDIT: on further thought, I guess the smart way to do the tuning would be by hand-matching components for very close tolerance. A DIYer could do that easily enough, and I might be willing on a custom job for a suitable price, but it's not something that a commercial enterprise could reasonably do in ordinary production.

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Re: stackable power cables?

Post by EdJ » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:15 am

Foghorn wrote:OK, not exactly a module but

Why doesn't anyone make a "stackable power cable"

Ya know, stackable on the power header so that one header can have more than one power cable plugged into it.

OK, I have seen power cables that have more than one module plug on a longer than normal ribbon cable.

Wish I knew where I had seen it last, it's in that case.
No, maybe this one, or that one over there :hmm:
Frack :despair:

CRAP, I'm not taking all of these apart to look for it :confused:

Foghorn

someone please tell me they do exist and can be ordered from somewhere :help:

and stop hitting all those Emoticons :bang:
Do you mean one of these? :D https://modularaddict.com/eurorackpower-flyingbusboard

Disclaimer - no idea if you should use this cable as described, I've only really seen em with the tiptop uzeus.
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Post by Foghorn » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:41 pm

Sort of EdJ

I was thinking of a power cable whose plug (that plugs into the power buss) has a jack on top of it (don't know if anything like that could exist)
Kind of like a stackable patch cord.

I have a power cable in another case, with 6 Tiptop drum modules plugged into it.
It has one plug that fits a buss board and 6 plugs that fit 10 pin module power connectors.
In that situation it is only 78 mA. for all 6 modules.
I think that Tiptop used to sell them with the (BD808, SD808, MA808, CP808, CB808, RS808) set of drum voices.
This was of course quite a few years ago, and I had forgotten about the flying buss idea.

The flying bussboard from modular addict has a bunch of power jacks that power cables can plug into.
I'll have to order one of them from modular addict.


Thank you for the link

Foghorn

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flying bussboard at modular addict.
"This eurorack flying bus board cable supports up to 10 ribbon cables and a female 16 pin connector on the end for an 11th module or chaining bus boards (Keep your current draw in mind!)"

I have a ribbon cable with a bunch of 10 pin power connections that plug into modules, spaced about 100 mm apart, but it has no plug that fits into a power jack :hmm:
Not sure what that's about :confused:
I'm not sure what's going on, but, well ah crap..what now?

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Post by void23 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:35 pm

nios wrote:How about an Emulator II or III synth voice (factory banks and filter at least)? Anyone ask Rossum about it? I tried searching to no avail; it's the crunched, aliased filtered sound of it that I really really like and is to my ear also distinct from just bitcrushing something to try to get that effect.
That would be using EMXP to convert the banks to .WAV files and then an ER-301.

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Post by Arneb » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:22 pm

A hi-hat module.

One whose interface isn't ignorant of how hi-hats work, I mean. With continuous CV control over opening and stuff. Unfortunately the 808 has successfully gaslighted the entire electronic music scene into believing that "open" and "closed" was a strict dichotomy.

Maybe if someone tells WMD? Like, something digital based on the Crucible code?

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Post by Gringo Starr » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:29 pm

A module that can take in a single note, harmonize the note and sound into a chord of your choice, and send all the individual notes of the chord to their own output. Does that exist?
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Post by dubonaire » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:03 am

Gringo Starr wrote:A module that can take in a single note, harmonize the note and sound into a chord of your choice, and send all the individual notes of the chord to their own output. Does that exist?

I think both Instruo Harmoniag and ACL Sinfonion do this don't they?

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Post by Arneb » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:25 am

Gringo Starr wrote:A module that can take in a single note, harmonize the note and sound into a chord of your choice, and send all the individual notes of the chord to their own output. Does that exist?
A chord quantizer? Yeah, there's been quite a few of those coming out recently; see mdouduroff's quantizer comparison table. Between Harmonàig's immediateness and O&C's configurability, which one is best for you really depends on your playing style.

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Post by Yaitw » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:19 am

A sequencer that does polyrhythms.
(Not polymeters being sold as polyrhythms)
You choose the length and step count and it does the maths.

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Post by Arneb » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:40 am

Yaitw wrote:A sequencer that does polyrhythms.
(Not polymeters being sold as polyrhythms)
What's the difference, from a sequencer's PoV? I mean, the way I understand polyrhythms they're the same trigger sequence, the difference is in intonation and stuff, which is mostly outside the sequencer's purview?

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Post by Yaitw » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:00 am

They are not the same trigger sequence.
Polyrhythm is in the timing.


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Post by deftinwulf » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:42 am

Arneb wrote:A hi-hat module.

One whose interface isn't ignorant of how hi-hats work, I mean. With continuous CV control over opening and stuff. Unfortunately the 808 has successfully gaslighted the entire electronic music scene into believing that "open" and "closed" was a strict dichotomy.

Maybe if someone tells WMD? Like, something digital based on the Crucible code?
Amen! 100% agreed - I'd love to see that module.

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Post by brandonlogic » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:44 pm

Arneb wrote:
Yaitw wrote:A sequencer that does polyrhythms.
(Not polymeters being sold as polyrhythms)
What's the difference, from a sequencer's PoV? I mean, the way I understand polyrhythms they're the same trigger sequence, the difference is in intonation and stuff, which is mostly outside the sequencer's purview?
From what i have read, the er101 can apparently do proper polyrhythms.

Five12 - Vector is advertised to do this, but can anyone confirm if can do true polyrhythms?

explains the difference.
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Post by cptnal » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:58 am

When it comes to rhythm you can always trust a man in a beanie hat. :party:

If the effect is the same over different timescales can't you just increase the clock speed to get from polymeter to polyrhythm territory? He did just that in one part of the video.

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Post by Yaitw » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:58 am

Thank you guys, good stuff here!.
I got closer than ever.

I don't think this works for all polyrhythms tho.
I just tried it and I could get 4 Kicks per 5 snares using the polymeter technique.

S X X X S X X X S X X X S X X X S X X X SNARE
B X X X X B X X X X B X X X X B X X X X BASS DRUM

But that means that each bar of music is now 5 steps long so I had to push my project tempo up to 153 BPM to get it to sound in the House and Techno range.
Also all the rest of the Polyrhythm steps have to be divisible from 20 steps now.
Which does not leave much room for else.

Also everything elses (Melody and such) relation to Kick drum will be 5 pulses per each kick, which is not desirable at all times.

Like how to implement a classic HiHat ratio that is offset from kick with the upper method.

B X X X B X X X B X X X B X X X BASS DRUM
X X H X X X H X X X H X X X H X HIHAT

I guess by doubling the steps and tempo so that kick would now occur every ten pulses.

And if I want a melody line that is four pulses for every kick then I now have to quadruple the tempo and steps :doh:

I guess I want a smaller digital module that takes incoming clock pulse and then I set how many pulses I want between four bars (16 pulses) and it does the math for me and spits out the trigs.
I guess I want a polyrhythmic clock divider not a sequencer after all :hmm:

It was fun to figure this stuff out tho :yay:
I thought I got this polyrhythm shit, but it took some effort.

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Post by Arneb » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:22 am

Ah, I think I get it now... so, your actual problem is that electronic music sequencing doesn't really support tuplets - it's all the same old 4ppqn.

For your use case I'd probably try to get a 48ppqn clock from somewhere, run it at 153bpm, and sequence the snare through a /12 clock divider and the kick and hats through a /15 one. I'm kinda hard-pressed to find that 48ppqn clock in something that's not complete overkill though.

Edit: Or play a normal 120bpm 4/4 sequence with eighth note triggers for the snares and run those snare triggers through a CV-able trigger delay with a clocked sawtooth LFO on CV In. That's probably too inflexible for live jamming though.

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