The modules that should exist (but don't)

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Yaitw
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Post by Yaitw » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:42 am

I thought about it more and i guess what I actually need for polyrhythms is a module that calculates the following function:

[(60÷X)xY]÷Z=C

X=BPM
Y=Amount of Bars
Z=Amount of Beats
C=Seconds between each trigger

Lets say that I have 120 Bpm and I want 7 beats to play in 5 bars.
X is 120BPM, Y is 5 and Z is 7

[(60÷120)x5]÷7=0.357142857142857...‬ seconds

I wonder if Teletype can do such thing if you program it right?

But I also guess getting a steady pulse after each 0.3571428571428571‬ seconds requires a really fast clocking and might be unrealistic?
I don't know enough about programming, but I do know that Ableton device POLYRHYTHMUS and a VST called LondonClockT can do this.


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Post by VibratingMotorGate » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:09 pm

I would like to see a digital Strange Attractor with (1v/oct tracking) module that lets you choose between a multitude of chaotic function generators and with X, Y, Z, and maybe a programable 4th output. I liked the idea of ADDAC's Lissagous module, but I don't think it went into audio rates or 1v tracking.

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Post by spilthyfred » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:04 pm

More Hi-Hat modules with external in!

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Post by rustedimac » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:42 am

A module that records and uploads to social media/soundcloud services? It's almost 2020 damn it! :doh:
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Post by mrhooks » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:47 am

Yaitw wrote:[(60÷X)xY]÷Z=C

X=BPM
Y=Amount of Bars
Z=Amount of Beats
C=Seconds between each trigger
Assuming this is supposed to be a polyrhythm, I believe you need to multiply by the number of "normal" beats in a bar.

If the music is in 4/4:

[ (60 sec/min) / (120 beats/min) ] * (4 beats/measure) * (5 measures) / (7 polyrhythmic beats) = ~1.429 seconds / polyrhythmic beat

Now the units work out nicely.

EDIT: I may have misunderstood your intention. You said 7 beats across 5 measures. Did you mean 7 beats per measure, across 5 measures? If so, then you would not multiply by the number of measures, and the units for the 7 would be polyrhythmic beats/measure, and the actual solution would be ~.286 seconds/polyrhythmic beat.

Also, ~.357 (from your original calculation) is not that fast. That's 168 bpm. ~.286 is 210 bpm.
Last edited by mrhooks on Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by cackland » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:05 am

rustedimac wrote:A module that records and uploads to social media/soundcloud services? It's almost 2020 damn it! :doh:
Nice idea, although I don’t know how practical this would be.

One would need access to the web services api in order to implement a feature.

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Post by DCDanno » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:24 am

cackland wrote:
rustedimac wrote:A module that records and uploads to social media/soundcloud services? It's almost 2020 damn it! :doh:
Nice idea, although I don’t know how practical this would be.

One would need access to the web services api in order to implement a feature.
rustedimac, how are you recording your performances? It might be cool to go straight from your modular, but as cackland said, not sure it would be practical. I wonder what demand would be for something like that? Ableton and Garageband already have an upload to Soundcloud feature and it's pretty easy to use. I'm not familiar with other DAWs but I'm guessing likewise.

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Post by gringostar » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:17 pm

The lovechild of a Bin Seq and RCD that you can also set how many steps you want it to be. I'm imagining it would be 6hp to handle the rotation jack and step count control, but it would be a good mk2 of the Bin Seq.

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Post by Sandrine » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:45 pm

rustedimac wrote:A module that records and uploads to social media/soundcloud services? It's almost 2020 damn it! :doh:
That's a damn good idea! Collab remotely, hey who the hell adjusted that CV?? haha. 'tis thought provoking though isn't it? Like interfacing a chuckwagon with the space shuttle...sorta

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Post by bollyhood » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:08 pm

A "passive" analog complex oscillator interface, like a complex osc with no oscillators but a bunch of inputs. Features like maybe ring modulation, am modulation, maybe audio rate / regular crossfade between waveforms, wavefolding with audiorate options, pre and post mixer for different functions like fold/am/ringmod. Maybe index vca for routing back to some osc for FM.

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Post by Homepage Englisch » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:51 am

I would really like a Quad VCO with individual audio outputs per VCO, with 4 v/oct inputs and ONLY one set of frequency controls (tune, fine tune).

Nothing fancy. Don't care about FM inputs or Sync inputs...just 4 oscillators which are always perfectly in tune with each other. No stacked chords, no detuned saws...just something where you could always plug in 4 different v/oct inputs from a sequencer(s), with no need for individual oscillator tunings. One can easily send one osc output to VCF, another to VCA, to wavefolder, to delay...

Appologies if such a module exists, I'm not aware of it.

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Post by bedhed3000 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:51 pm

Homepage Englisch wrote:I would really like a Quad VCO with individual audio outputs per VCO, with 4 v/oct inputs and ONLY one set of frequency controls (tune, fine tune).

Nothing fancy. Don't care about FM inputs or Sync inputs...just 4 oscillators which are always perfectly in tune with each other. No stacked chords, no detuned saws...just something where you could always plug in 4 different v/oct inputs from a sequencer(s), with no need for individual oscillator tunings. One can easily send one osc output to VCF, another to VCA, to wavefolder, to delay...

Appologies if such a module exists, I'm not aware of it.
That's basically this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/studio-el ... cs-quadnic
I don't think you can forced each VCO's frequency to be in tune with each of the others, but it seems easy enough to tune them up once and leave them like that. It's digital, so there wouldn't be any drift.

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Post by Homepage Englisch » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:50 pm

bedhed3000 wrote:
Homepage Englisch wrote:I would really like a Quad VCO with individual audio outputs per VCO, with 4 v/oct inputs and ONLY one set of frequency controls (tune, fine tune).

Nothing fancy. Don't care about FM inputs or Sync inputs...just 4 oscillators which are always perfectly in tune with each other. No stacked chords, no detuned saws...just something where you could always plug in 4 different v/oct inputs from a sequencer(s), with no need for individual oscillator tunings. One can easily send one osc output to VCF, another to VCA, to wavefolder, to delay...

Appologies if such a module exists, I'm not aware of it.
That's basically this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/studio-el ... cs-quadnic
I don't think you can forced each VCO's frequency to be in tune with each of the others, but it seems easy enough to tune them up once and leave them like that. It's digital, so there wouldn't be any drift.
Thanks for that. I see that individual oscillators could still be fine-tuned but that's okay if you can quickly reset the module into the default state.

Gonna keep my eye on this one. I do love my oscillators but sometimes it's just tiresome to tune them to make harmonically related overlapping sequences.

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Post by Daisuk » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:31 pm

So, I was lying in bed the other day, half asleep, half thinking about how I'd like a sequencer to be. It has to have some sort of screen. The idea is to have all the note information for all channels (say 8) on the same screen at all times (or as much as possible, without it being too cluttered) - to get a better overview of what exactly is going on (I tend to get lost once I have a lot going on).

Also - let's say you input a note somewhere, and this is key - you can then assign this note to one or more outputs (for that specific step). For the sake of clarity, the screen could show say 8 lanes where you can input notes, so that say you put down a note at the beginning of a bar, assign it to output 1 (which is say a pair of cv1 and gate1), before that note is over, or right after it's over, you put in another note, and assign that to output 2. The different outputs could be color coded, for instance, and whatver note assigned to whatever output could be color coded to reflect this. This way you could use some oscillators for say chords at some points in the sequence, and as mono voices at other places in the sequence.

Also - inspired by Tete's Loopy mode - it would be cool to be able to mark say a portion of a sequence and be able to "extract" that as a clip (similar to Ableton Live) that you could loop and play back, or put into some sort of master timeline (or you know, access by CV somehow).

I don't know if it would work well at all, but for some reason, I imagine it could be fun to sequence this way, where you wouldn't have to skip between channels to input notes all the time, and it would be easier to have longer sequences and such without losing track of where in a sequence you are. Linking together longer sequences with the Eloquencer is a bit of a pain in the butt, for instance, and although Hermod is powerful in many respects, if a sequence gets long, it's very easy to get lost (same with the ER-101, in my opinion). It just becomes a hassle toggling between the various channels - having all in one place with selectable outputs - fuck yeah, wouldn't that be sweet? :lol:

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Post by Arneb » Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:15 pm

Daisuk wrote:Also - let's say you input a note somewhere, and this is key - you can then assign this note to one or more outputs (for that specific step). For the sake of clarity, the screen could show say 8 lanes where you can input notes, so that say you put down a note at the beginning of a bar, assign it to output 1 (which is say a pair of cv1 and gate1), before that note is over, or right after it's over, you put in another note, and assign that to output 2. The different outputs could be color coded, for instance, and whatver note assigned to whatever output could be color coded to reflect this. This way you could use some oscillators for say chords at some points in the sequence, and as mono voices at other places in the sequence.
IDK, I'm afraid that's not how most musicians work. We're used to think in melodies, so we normally do one channel at a time. Except when writing chords, that is, but even then people think in terms of major, minor... chords, which naturally leads to a workflow where you rout one single pitch channel, plus possibly one or two CV channels, into something like Harmonaig or Sinfonion.

As for copy&paste ideas, the issue is, modular sequencers have to be somewhat simple and stupid. Otherwise they start losing to a cheap laptop and a good MIDI interface module. I've never really understood where the advantages of, say, NerdSeq are supposed to be when compared to sequencing your rack from Renoise on an early '10s Thinkpad running Ubuntu Studio or something.

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Post by cackland » Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:45 pm

This is such a great thread. Some great ideas

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Post by R.U.Nuts » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:21 pm

Arneb wrote:
Daisuk wrote:Also - let's say you input a note somewhere, and this is key - you can then assign this note to one or more outputs (for that specific step). For the sake of clarity, the screen could show say 8 lanes where you can input notes, so that say you put down a note at the beginning of a bar, assign it to output 1 (which is say a pair of cv1 and gate1), before that note is over, or right after it's over, you put in another note, and assign that to output 2. The different outputs could be color coded, for instance, and whatver note assigned to whatever output could be color coded to reflect this. This way you could use some oscillators for say chords at some points in the sequence, and as mono voices at other places in the sequence.
IDK, I'm afraid that's not how most musicians work. We're used to think in melodies, so we normally do one channel at a time. Except when writing chords, that is, but even then people think in terms of major, minor... chords, which naturally leads to a workflow where you rout one single pitch channel, plus possibly one or two CV channels, into something like Harmonaig or Sinfonion.

As for copy&paste ideas, the issue is, modular sequencers have to be somewhat simple and stupid. Otherwise they start losing to a cheap laptop and a good MIDI interface module. I've never really understood where the advantages of, say, NerdSeq are supposed to be when compared to sequencing your rack from Renoise on an early '10s Thinkpad running Ubuntu Studio or something.
I think that would be an interesting sequencer if you could drag and drop single notes around the timeline and different channels and maybe some X (timeline) and Y (channels) CV Inputs that can automate the dragging and dropping.

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Re: The modules that should exist (but don't)

Post by Buttons ARE toys » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:38 pm

You know what could be really cool is a dual euclidean delay module. So you can send a different signal to each one and then set/modulate the overall number of taps, and each channel's tap count and rotation.
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Re: The modules that should exist (but don't)

Post by Arneb » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:55 pm

Not sure whether I understand you right... do you mean something like (dual) Delay -> VCA In, Burst gen -> Euclidean sequencer -> AHD EG -> VCA CV, but in one module?

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Re: The modules that should exist (but don't)

Post by megarat » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:36 pm

It doesn't get much simpler than this, so someone's probably created this already, and if that's the case, please let me know.

I like to do transpositions and key changes by adding voltages to a sequenced pitch voltage. Currently, I'm creating the transposition voltages with sequencers or other utilities, like my Mordax Data. What I want is a 2hp (or 4hp at most) utility that just has outputs for musically useful voltages. No inputs, no knobs or dials or sliders or displays, just outputs for, e.g.:

2nd (1/6v)
minor 3rd (1/4v)
major 3rd (1/3v)
fourth (5/12v)
fifth (7/12v)
minor 6th (2/3v)
major 6th (3/4v)
minor 7th (5/6)
major 7th (11/12v)
octave (1v) (this is less important, since this baked into my Doepfer A-185-2)

The exhaustive (and perhaps simpler) solution would be to have twelve outputs, each outputting 1/12v to 1v in increments of 1/12v, to account for all of the semitones on the chromatic scale. It's basically an SFF Quantum Rainbow 2, but for fixed interval voltages.

I would find this extremely useful. And it seems a low-enough bar that perhaps I should just get off my butt and make it myself.

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Re: The modules that should exist (but don't)

Post by Bitnik » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:59 pm

megarat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:36 pm
It doesn't get much simpler than this, so someone's probably created this already, and if that's the case, please let me know.

I like to do transpositions and key changes by adding voltages to a sequenced pitch voltage. Currently, I'm creating the transposition voltages with sequencers or other utilities, like my Mordax Data. What I want is a 2hp (or 4hp at most) utility that just has outputs for musically useful voltages. No inputs, no knobs or dials or sliders or displays, just outputs for, e.g.:

2nd (1/6v)
minor 3rd (1/4v)
major 3rd (1/3v)
fourth (5/12v)
fifth (7/12v)
minor 6th (2/3v)
major 6th (3/4v)
minor 7th (5/6)
major 7th (11/12v)
octave (1v) (this is less important, since this baked into my Doepfer A-185-2)

The exhaustive (and perhaps simpler) solution would be to have twelve outputs, each outputting 1/12v to 1v in increments of 1/12v, to account for all of the semitones on the chromatic scale. It's basically an SFF Quantum Rainbow 2, but for fixed interval voltages.

I would find this extremely useful. And it seems a low-enough bar that perhaps I should just get off my butt and make it myself.
Sounds great. I may be missing something, but what would a bare voltage relative to earth give you? You're listing musical intervals (fifth, major sixth, etc) but without further treatment the voltages representing those intervals won't do anything useful.

Speaking as a complete newbie to analogue modular. If there is a way I can create an interval on my stream just by injecting a bare voltage, without some explicit voltage summing intervening, please let me know If that's possible, Analogue will be much simpler than the electronics I learned as a child in the early seventies.

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Re: The modules that should exist (but don't)

Post by Arneb » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:52 pm

megarat wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:36 pm
It doesn't get much simpler than this, so someone's probably created this already, and if that's the case, please let me know.

I like to do transpositions and key changes by adding voltages to a sequenced pitch voltage. Currently, I'm creating the transposition voltages with sequencers or other utilities, like my Mordax Data. What I want is a 2hp (or 4hp at most) utility that just has outputs for musically useful voltages. No inputs, no knobs or dials or sliders or displays, just outputs for, e.g.:

2nd (1/6v)
minor 3rd (1/4v)
major 3rd (1/3v)
fourth (5/12v)
fifth (7/12v)
minor 6th (2/3v)
major 6th (3/4v)
minor 7th (5/6)
major 7th (11/12v)
octave (1v) (this is less important, since this baked into my Doepfer A-185-2)

The exhaustive (and perhaps simpler) solution would be to have twelve outputs, each outputting 1/12v to 1v in increments of 1/12v, to account for all of the semitones on the chromatic scale. It's basically an SFF Quantum Rainbow 2, but for fixed interval voltages.

I would find this extremely useful. And it seems a low-enough bar that perhaps I should just get off my butt and make it myself.
Two existing modules come to mind, however neither of them work by patching your transpose CV.

The first is VPME t43. That's the way to go if you want to set your transpose CV by hand. Requires you to do the arithmetic in your head though - transposition by a fifth is done by flipping the "1oct" switch right (add 1V) and the "4" and "1" switches left (subtract 4/12V=1/3V and 1/12V respectively).

The second is NE Vox Digitalis, if you want a more sequencer-like (or even sequential-switch-like) way of picking a transpose CV.

I don't think there are any real use cases for a "Pitch CV Rainbow" where neither of those two would work tbh.
Bitnik wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:59 pm
Sounds great. I may be missing something, but what would a bare voltage relative to earth give you? You're listing musical intervals (fifth, major sixth, etc) but without further treatment the voltages representing those intervals won't do anything useful.

Speaking as a complete newbie to analogue modular. If there is a way I can create an interval on my stream just by injecting a bare voltage, without some explicit voltage summing intervening, please let me know If that's possible, Analogue will be much simpler than the electronics I learned as a child in the early seventies.
They're implying that the bare voltage gets fed into a precision adder or sequencer transpose input.

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Re: The modules that should exist (but don't)

Post by Bitnik » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:14 am

Arneb wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:52 pm

They're implying that the bare voltage gets fed into a precision adder or sequencer transpose input.
That makes sense. In which case the notion is a good one (though it would be an odd way of doing the offset when all that's needed in terms of control surface is a rotary transposition knob marked off with the intervals).

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Re: The modules that should exist (but don't)

Post by Buttons ARE toys » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:49 am

Arneb wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:55 pm
Not sure whether I understand you right... do you mean something like (dual) Delay -> VCA In, Burst gen -> Euclidean sequencer -> AHD EG -> VCA CV, but in one module?
No I mean the actual delay taps would be laid out on a euclidean trigger scheme. Similar to pattern delays if you've ever used one. They'll give you like 16 delay taps across the whole delay buffer and you can turn those taps on or off, creating rhythms. So a euclidean delay module would do this but instead of selecting which individual taps you want on or off, you would just set it to, say, 7 active taps across 16 total and then choose whether the first tap occurs on the first beat, or second, fifth, etc.
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Re: The modules that should exist (but don't)

Post by megarat » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:56 am

Thanks for the responses, folks. Some responses of my own:
Arneb wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:52 pm
Two existing modules come to mind, however neither of them work by patching your transpose CV.

The first is VPME t43. That's the way to go if you want to set your transpose CV by hand. Requires you to do the arithmetic in your head though - transposition by a fifth is done by flipping the "1oct" switch right (add 1V) and the "4" and "1" switches left (subtract 4/12V=1/3V and 1/12V respectively).

The second is NE Vox Digitalis, if you want a more sequencer-like (or even sequential-switch-like) way of picking a transpose CV.
Thanks for pointing out the T43, that's not exactly what I had in mind, but it's pretty close. As I mentioned, I'm currently using a Doepfer A-185-2 (although sometimes I use unity mixers), so I was thinking about this solution in terms of that. In a way, the T43 would be a replacement for the A-185-2, with some of the basic features that I'm interested in, and 2hp thinner. I'll have to give this some thought.

Bitnik wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:14 am
That makes sense. In which case the notion is a good one (though it would be an odd way of doing the offset when all that's needed in terms of control surface is a rotary transposition knob marked off with the intervals).
That's an interesting idea, but that would only give you one voltage out. I think there's merit in having multiple outs, perhaps routed to different modules, or (e.g.) multiple inputs on a sequential switch. Also, I think the dial would be a less-precise performance instrument than a single physical switch (which is what I use with the adder), and switching between voltages with a dial might introduce noise from the other voltages that you're passing through.

Here's a video (not mine, but nicely illustrative) that might help explain how I use the adder:

Last edited by megarat on Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:01 am, edited 4 times in total.

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