Erbe-verb: patches, tips, techniques and demos

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Kent, Joe., luketeaford, lisa

User avatar
wellurban
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1392
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:49 pm

Erbe-verb: patches, tips, techniques and demos

Post by wellurban » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:45 am

Hi all,

I was going to post this on the original Erbe-verb thread, but once a thread gets to 34 pages things can get a bit buried. Especially so when a topic started before a module was released, so you get all the speculation and anticipation posts (plenty of those were mine), and anyone looking for patching tips and the like might find that hard to navigate. So, I decided to try starting a new topic where people could share patches, tips and examples, rather than full tracks and module-love posts :tu:

Anyway, to start with, here are a few examples of different modulation techniques. In particular, I wanted to explore opportunities for patching the CV out into various inputs, other than the obvious use to rein in the decay.

http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/er ... tion-demos

From the Soundcloud description:

Patch 1: Erbe-Verb CV out to Depth in, used to send the modulation in and out of "shimmer". LFO to decay. Divisor of clock sets reverse on and off.

Patch 2: Clock division to Size CV in, creating drastic sudden changes to the size of the space, with a "whiplash" effect. LFO to decay. Another clock divisor sets reverse on and off.

Patch 3: Erbe-Verb CV out to Pre-delay in, creating some nasty but fascinating rhythmic glitches. LFO to decay, and perhaps another one to modulation speed. Divisor of clock sets reverse on and off.

Patch 4: based on one of the above, probably patch 1, but with a slower input sequence and the Optomix opened with a slow envelope rather than struck.

Hope this is of interest!

wbuttler
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 2:14 am

Post by wbuttler » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:50 am

Great idea for a thread. Mine is in the post so this will be useful when it arrives.

User avatar
wellurban
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1392
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:49 pm

Post by wellurban » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:54 am

Here's another one. I was getting some interesting glitchy and metallic percussion sounds when playing around, so I wondered whether I could use the EV to pretty much create percussion rather than just adding reverb to the sounds. I know that reverb is based on delays with feedback, and Karplus-Strong synthesis uses noise bursts into a delay with feedback, so I wondered whether I could coax metallic plucks and hits out of the EV. The answer (so far) is "kind of", but what became even more interesting was the rhythmic variations that came from modulating the pre-delay time.

http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/erbecussion

From the description:

White noise goes through a VCA, which is opened by a short Maths envelope, and feeds into the Erbe-Verb. Then there's a whole bunch of sequencers and trigger sequencers:

- One trigger sequencer hits the Maths envelope. I start this with just a single hit on each bar, beginning dry to show the source sound, then quickly move over to fully wet for the rest of the track. I then bring more hits in to vary the rhythm.

- One sequencer row sets the Fall time on Maths to get some variation in the input bursts.

- A 2nd trigger sequencer hits another Maths envelope, which then modulates the Pre-delay. As the Erbe-Verb is tempo-synced, this creates weird poly-rhythms and glitches.

- Three other sequencer rows modulate the Size, Decay and Absorb inputs.

Kentucky
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 8:14 pm
Location: Richmond

Post by Kentucky » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:04 am

Neat! I could use a little reverb.

User avatar
alamandra
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1177
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 1:19 pm
Location: Bag End, The Shire, Englandington.

Post by alamandra » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:24 am

Would I be right in thinking a spring reverb would create the sorta metallic pluckiness you mention? I haven't actually listened to what you made here yet by the way.

Though thinking about it with a spring reverb it's more about what you put into it, with the erbe it's got more potential to actually create sounds and self patch is this so?

Love the fourth patch slow envelopes on that optomix are brilliant aren't they though I liked them in the other patches too but it just stood out more in the fourth.
Shiney metal module shirt

User avatar
wellurban
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1392
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:49 pm

Post by wellurban » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:34 am

alamandra wrote:Would I be right in thinking a spring reverb would create the sorta metallic pluckiness you mention? I haven't actually listened to what you made here yet by the way.

Though thinking about it with a spring reverb it's more about what you put into it, with the erbe it's got more potential to actually create sounds and self patch is this so?
Definitely more scope for creating sounds than with a spring...though you can get some amazing sounds with feedback and a spring reverb. Plus, you can hit or pluck the strings physically!

And actually, you can make metallic percussion really easily with the EV: much more simply than the patch in that "Erbecussion" demo :doh: Just plug a trigger or short envelope into the EV input, turn pre-delay right down, and bingo: plucks, thumps and tympani. You can even tune it with the Size input, though I doubt you could get it to track 1v/o. I found it useful to mult the tuning input to the Decay input, with attenuversion the opposite way from the Size input. That way, the lower notes that come with larger room sizes are reined in by shorter decays.

EDIT: set it to fully wet unless you want the initial click to come through.

User avatar
alamandra
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1177
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 1:19 pm
Location: Bag End, The Shire, Englandington.

Post by alamandra » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:41 am

wellurban wrote:
alamandra wrote:Would I be right in thinking a spring reverb would create the sorta metallic pluckiness you mention? I haven't actually listened to what you made here yet by the way.

Though thinking about it with a spring reverb it's more about what you put into it, with the erbe it's got more potential to actually create sounds and self patch is this so?
Definitely more scope for creating sounds than with a spring...though you can get some amazing sounds with feedback and a spring reverb. Plus, you can hit or pluck the strings physically!

And actually, you can make metallic percussion really easily with the EV: much more simply than the patch in that "Erbecussion" demo :doh: Just plug a trigger or short envelope into the EV input, turn pre-delay right down, and bingo: plucks, thumps and tympani. You can even tune it with the Size input, though I doubt you could get it to track 1v/o. I found it useful to mult the tuning input to the Decay input, with attenuversion the opposite way from the Size input. That way, the lower notes that come with larger room sizes are reined in by shorter decays.

EDIT: set it to fully wet unless you want the initial click to come through.
It's a fascinatingly good module the erbe, and so much you could do with it, If I didn't still need the utility stuff for my modular I'd get saving for one.
Shiney metal module shirt

User avatar
zengomi
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:55 am
Location: Eternity in a lifetime
Contact:

Post by zengomi » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:41 am

Great idea for a thread. Thanks so much for the example and patching ideas.

User avatar
VortexRanger
reticulating splines
Posts: 2454
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:13 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by VortexRanger » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:56 am

wellurban wrote:Here's another one. I was getting some interesting glitchy and metallic percussion sounds when playing around, so I wondered whether I could use the EV to pretty much create percussion rather than just adding reverb to the sounds.
I've been having fun setting it into self-oscillation (long decay time) with no input, and then using the Mix CV input like a VCA, hitting it with envelopes and whatever.
:hobbes:

gotascii
Common Wiggler
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:57 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by gotascii » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:17 am

I think you killed the pony. Well done! Great thread idea and great ideas so far, thanks :tu:

User avatar
roqeja
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:24 am
Location: NY/NJ/LA

Post by roqeja » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:48 pm

I'm attempting to work with the EV as both a typical reverb and for atypical sound generation. I've enjoyed sending a sharp envelope into the Size CV input for percussion.
FS: Harvestman Tyme Sefari and SOT Mk2, Synthrotek EKO
WTB: LZX VWG, A-198 Ribbon controller, Trigger Riot, Circadian Rhythm, d0, Storage Strip

User avatar
wellurban
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1392
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:49 pm

Post by wellurban » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:50 pm

Here are some quick demos of three percussion techniques with the EV:

http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/er ... techniques

1. VortexRanger's technique: No input; EV self-oscillating; percussive envelope in to Mix, thus using it as a VCA.

2. Sine wave input; envelope multed to to Size and Pre CV inputs. In this case the sine plays a sort of bassline, which the rapidly changing reverb size and pre-delay turns into clattery metallic percussion.

3. Short envelope trigger into the audio input; small spaces and Decay near self-osc make for metallic ringing tones.

With these various techniques, you can get everything from tympani and metallic bongoesque percussion to great wobbling sheets of steel and graunchy industrial riffs.

Maybe at some stage I'll actually use it as a reverb! :hihi:

lyfer
Common Wiggler
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:44 pm

Post by lyfer » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:58 pm

wellurban wrote:Here are some quick demos of three percussion techniques with the EV:

http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/er ... techniques

1. VortexRanger's technique: No input; EV self-oscillating; percussive envelope in to Mix, thus using it as a VCA.

2. Sine wave input; envelope multed to to Size and Pre CV inputs. In this case the sine plays a sort of bassline, which the rapidly changing reverb size and pre-delay turns into clattery metallic percussion.

3. Short envelope trigger into the audio input; small spaces and Decay near self-osc make for metallic ringing tones.

With these various techniques, you can get everything from tympani and metallic bongoesque percussion to great wobbling sheets of steel and graunchy industrial riffs.

Maybe at some stage I'll actually use it as a reverb! :hihi:
Woah.

User avatar
limpmeat
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1113
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:40 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by limpmeat » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:38 am

dang, I was choosing between an Erbe Verb and a Basimilus Iteritas and chose the latter cause I want some metallic percussion. Seems like I coulda had that and reverb with Erbe.

User avatar
wellurban
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1392
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:49 pm

Post by wellurban » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:15 pm

Well, you CAN make metallic percussion with the EV, but the BI will give you much more control and flexibility because that's what it's designed to do. The percussion one can get out of EV is stranger and more unpredictable than the BI, which may or may not be what you want.

Of course, the BI doesn't do reverb at all, whereas the EV excels that that! I've got some more demos coming up that illustrate more conventional reverb duties.

User avatar
wellurban
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1392
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:49 pm

Post by wellurban » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:26 pm

Okay, a couple of examples showing actual reverb!

First up, a slow chord through the EV set to a basic big ambient reverb, but with various settings tweaked one at a time. It's a bit boring to start with, but as I take the pony through a few more of its tricks it gets richer and more interesting...and then I go a bit mad at the end.

http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/er ... ith-chords

Full patch details are in the Soundcloud description and timed comments.

(EDIT: for some reason it won't embed, so here's the link: http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/er ... ith-chords)
Last edited by wellurban on Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
wellurban
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1392
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:49 pm

Post by wellurban » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:30 pm

In this one, I run a bell sound through the EV, using a sequencer to vary the Decay and Absorb settings from note to note. The slow swells that occur on some bell hits aren't due to external modulation: it's just the EV's own response when the Decay allows feedback to slowly build up, though it's brought back down to earth with the next note as the sequencer brings down the Decay.

http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/se ... b-settings

User avatar
devslashnull
Common Wiggler
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:04 pm
Location: Australia

Post by devslashnull » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:34 pm

These demos are great wellurban, nice to see that the EV has a wide range of usable sounds.

Wasnt sure if I really wanted this module before but now I'm think I might just have to make some room.

User avatar
thelizard
in it for the money
Posts: 1400
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:27 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Post by thelizard » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:24 pm

Hahah I love all of the percussion sounds in here. I posted one the other day using an Erbe-Verb fed back into itself via an Optomix. It gets a really nice glass tone, and doesn't require any other generator.

Here it is:

https://soundcloud.com/the-february-tha ... percussion

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/158420388" params="color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false" width="100%" height="166" iframe="true" /]

Patch here: http://www.modulargrid.net/e/patches/view/7195

User avatar
daluxer
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:25 pm
Location: Berlin

Post by daluxer » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:24 am

If you ping the mix&tilt at high decay settings with no input - you can get a snare drum out of it. Tweaking size gives you more / less noise.
Also depth set to ~9:00 and speed to ~1:00.

User avatar
wellurban
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1392
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:49 pm

Post by wellurban » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:12 pm

thelizard Thanks for that: that's a great idea! I've tried feedback before (via filters, ring mods and delays), but the results are more dronelike or chaotic, and putting a strikeable LPG in there creates some nice percussion. I tried it with clock divider outputs instead of random gates, and put other divisions into Size, Tilt and Absorb, and got some lovely tribal-ish rhythms out of it.

daluxer That's another cool use. The right combinations of Size, modulation and Absorb give some more realistic "noise"-based snares, rather than the metallic ringing percussion that I've mostly got out of the EV. It can also give some nice flanged snare textures, and there's always a subtle evolution over time rather than repetitive hits. The reverb algorithm gives it a very "alive" quality.

User avatar
gliiitches
Common Wiggler
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:38 am
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Post by gliiitches » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:36 pm

Is it possible to get delay type effects out of the EV? Obviously it's a reverb, but some of these demos sound almost like short-delay effects.

User avatar
wellurban
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1392
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:49 pm

Post by wellurban » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:40 pm

I think so, with the right combination of pre-delay and short decay, to eliminate the reverb-y tail. I'll have a play.

User avatar
cannonball swandive
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 664
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:24 am

Post by cannonball swandive » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:12 pm

thelizard wrote:Hahah I love all of the percussion sounds in here. I posted one the other day using an Erbe-Verb fed back into itself via an Optomix. It gets a really nice glass tone, and doesn't require any other generator.

Here it is:

https://soundcloud.com/the-february-tha ... percussion

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/158420388" params="color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false" width="100%" height="166" iframe="true" /]

Patch here: http://www.modulargrid.net/e/patches/view/7195
Had to try it with 2 since I got my second today :deadbanana:

https://soundcloud.com/cannonball-swandive/erbal-pings

User avatar
wellurban
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1392
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:49 pm

Post by wellurban » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:32 pm

gliiitches wrote:Is it possible to get delay type effects out of the EV?
YES! :tu:

First, set up a feedback loop by patching the EV output(s) into a mixer, along with the source signal that you want to delay, then patch the mixer output into the EV in. Start with the mixer settings for the EV output(s) at 0, since feedback easily goes bonkers. Mult the EV output(s) into your monitors or whatever.

Then start with the following settings on the EV:

In: 3 o'clock
Size: 9 o'clock
Pre-delay: 12-3 o'clock
Absorb: fully CCW
Decay: fully CCW
Everything else: 12 o'clock

This should give you a nice single echo at about 50-200ms, depending upon delay time. Now slowly bring up the EV output(s) in the mixer until you start to get repeated echoes, but before the feedback goes mad: I found that about 60-75% of the original signal worked well for me. Bingo: a stereo delay, with little appreciable reverb!

Play around with Size and Absorb to get different colourations to the tone: I find the above settings to be the closest to neutral, but others are also pleasant, with lots of organic, dubby tones. Try the Tilt settings, but be careful, since the bass or treble boost can start off the feedback. Try opening up the Decay time to bring out the reverb sound as well: the best of both worlds :hihi:

Now that you've got yourself a nice delay sound, it's your cue to go nuts! Try the following:

- Patch CV out into Size, for weird rubbery and underwater delays
- Modulate Mix and Decay to bring the delay repeats and reverb sound in and out.
- Tempo sync the delay, then modulate the pre-delay time. It can range from funky rhythmic variations to mad glitches.
- Put a VCA in the feedback loop to automate the amount of feedback.
- Put something else in the feedback loop: filter, phaser, bitcrusher, whatever.

Now I just have to record some of these!

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”