Verbos Harmonic Oscillator Buzzy Sines

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reodjectz
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Verbos Harmonic Oscillator Buzzy Sines

Post by reodjectz » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:24 pm

I just got the Verbos Harmonic Oscillator after being on the fence for some time because of the price, but really wanting the functionality. BUT I feel like my unit is defective. I want to hear what other owners have encountered. Here is a sample of me sweeping the center knob with width at 0 and tilt centered. All but the first harmonic have horrible buzzing and overtones on the "sine" wave.

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I sweep through a few different frequency fundamentals. Is this what others have encountered as well?

It really not what I expected - I have only heard good things about Verbos, but this is a little disappointing. (especially for the cost)

I can provide more samples if wanted.

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goiks
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Post by goiks » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:33 pm

based on the one i had, and talking with others, it appears that you are experiencing its actual character.
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taylor12k
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Post by taylor12k » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:43 pm

yes, the verbos sine is not as pure as something like a dixie or rubicon.... if you make sure your WIDTHS is at zero (CCW) that will be the cleanest... you may also get a bit cleaner going out individual outputs.

I wish it were a bit more pure, but it doesn't stop me from totally loving it...

you also try following it with a low pass filter to shave off some of those extra harmonics.

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taylor12k
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Post by taylor12k » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:45 pm

hmm listening back to your example that does sound slightly abnormally buzzy... I have a patch up I can't disturb now. but tomorrow I'll do the same width mine and record it and post and we can compare.

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reodjectz
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Post by reodjectz » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:21 pm

taylor12k wrote:yes, the verbos sine is not as pure as something like a dixie or rubicon.... if you make sure your WIDTHS is at zero (CCW) that will be the cleanest... you may also get a bit cleaner going out individual outputs.

I wish it were a bit more pure, but it doesn't stop me from totally loving it...

you also try following it with a low pass filter to shave off some of those extra harmonics.
I have patched each one through the individual outs and there is still a pronounced buzz. Example:

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This is me plugging to the individual outs in sequence.

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reodjectz
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Post by reodjectz » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:36 pm

BTW - I really love what I have made so far. I just expected pure sine waves from this. And (as Taylor suggests) running it through a low pass filter gets it close to what I was expecting.

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bsmith
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Post by bsmith » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:41 pm

Try eq'ing away 11k-ish with tight q.

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sprout23
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Post by sprout23 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:09 pm

Mine sounds the same, I sent mine in to Mark and he recalibrated it but didn't make a difference, I usually have to do some filtering to it, it's still a lot of fun to use though

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Post by Dstone » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:16 pm

Same here. I now always run it thru atleast an optomix if not my filterbank.

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reodjectz
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Post by reodjectz » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:23 pm

Thanks bsmith, sprout23, and Dstone. I really love what I can do with the HO already. And It is good to know that mine is not actually defective.

I think that the impurities actually may have a musical use... and hopefully I can filter them out when all I want are the pure overtones.

I would rather not send it to Mark, but I have asked him to listen to the samples I put on soudncloud.

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tintoyrobot
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Post by tintoyrobot » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:51 pm

I can confirm that this is how it is supposed to sound.

It would definitely say that the "impurity" of the partials is major contributor to why this module sounds so fucking good. A strict 8-partial additive synth would sound very clinical and boring, lacking a lot of the top end "excitement".

Anyway I love it :party:

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Hanz
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Post by Hanz » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:16 am

Same sound here. It was also not entirely what I expected, but hey...
I did note that on certain frequencies the buzziness appears more pronounced, almost like it's some internal interference.
Tweaking fine tune very slightly gives a bit cleaner tone, but if the sound has to fit in an arrangement that's not always an option though.
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Post by tiego » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:05 pm

I got surprised at the noise on the sine(s) , as you wouldnt usually Lopass sines. I also got surprised and put off for some time by the steep slope of Width , bringing in harmonics in a very brusque fashion... I also found I can hear it , even unplugged, in the "bus" on same system .Outs at rather high rate ,but in silent patches it can be annoying.... It has some level for sure (It could be a power related issue here I realise , tried in a small system or larger (18U) same . leaking in the OV?
Actually I spotted the same kind of thing with Maths in cycle mode and 4msPEG too
I really like this oscillator , but I do not always have spare VCF(s)
last night I used the noise on the sines more than masquing it with the super gravel QMMG in VCF mode and some Q , and happened to like it more in the process...There is also the Harmonic Osc's saw in a Moog VCF and delay involved so not an example of how it sounds "raw"
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Post by slirak » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:51 pm

I don't remember the details, but I've listened to a podcast where Mark Verbos talks about how the HO's harmonics are derived from the base frequency, and that the methods used (one for odd and one for even harmonics) mean the sines simply cannot be pure.

(As I understand it, though the harmonics aren't generated exactly like in the super-rare Buchla module that inspired it, they both share this trait.)

This is no issue whatsoever for me, and the sines of my HO actually look reasonably clean when I check it with my oscilloscope. But apparently, even though calibration might reduce the impurities, anyone looking for really clean sines must look elsewhere. To bad the Verbos site's description of his modules aren't a bit more - ehh - verbose... :deadbanana:


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Re: Verbos Harmonic Oscillator Buzzy Sines

Post by dumbeat » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:51 am

This is definitely a module that needed to have a built in low pass. Simple, just Freq parameter- no resonance or any fancy shit.
Just a way to have it usable without another module at this hp count and price point, as, the way it is, its unusable 99% of the times without a filter, unless you are doing industrial hardcore.

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Re: Verbos Harmonic Oscillator Buzzy Sines

Post by Black_Materia » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:56 pm

I love the noisy sines! Gives a filter something to shape and chew on, as opposed to a pure sine. Really disagree with the previous statement as well.

If you keep individual sliders low, the noise is less pronounced.
Also, sliders, tilt, span and width all work cumulative.
So if for example the sweep is all the way to the left, no leds will be lit, but the lowest band is allready being amplified. If you add too much slider or tilt, the combined internal level might get too much.
In this case turning the sweep all the way to the right would help with the lowest note 'clipping' or saturating internally.

If you want a clean harmonic osc, MI stages alternate modes are great!

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Re: Verbos Harmonic Oscillator Buzzy Sines

Post by dumbeat » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:38 am

Black_Materia wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:56 pm
I love the noisy sines! Gives a filter something to shape and chew on, as opposed to a pure sine. Really disagree with the previous statement as well.

If you keep individual sliders low, the noise is less pronounced.
Also, sliders, tilt, span and width all work cumulative.
So if for example the sweep is all the way to the left, no leds will be lit, but the lowest band is allready being amplified. If you add too much slider or tilt, the combined internal level might get too much.
In this case turning the sweep all the way to the right would help with the lowest note 'clipping' or saturating internally.

If you want a clean harmonic osc, MI stages alternate modes are great!

You may not hear it but the module produces a high freq buzz even when the Center is all the way to the left and only the fundamental is "active".
Its not what you want to hear when its not what you want to hear.
Its a weird module, interesting and special indeed, however it needs a filter most of the times. Disagreeing is part of what we do i guess.
As always, your milage may vary.

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Severed head
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Re: Verbos Harmonic Oscillator Buzzy Sines

Post by Severed head » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:08 am

Mine also bled into the buss
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