Polyrhythm help

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skeller047
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Re: Polyrhythm help

Post by skeller047 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:39 pm

Auxiliaryoctopus wrote:My goal is to set up polyrhythmic sequences with two separate oscillators. I want these sequences to be melodic. I want to be able to choose the specific notes of each sequence. What would I need to be able to do this, (aside from the synth voices themselves)? Would just one Yarns be able to do this? Would I need two?
Not sure what you mean by "polyrhythmic". There are two basic approaches, and which you want will determine which modules you will need (besides the VCO / EG / VCA chain for each voice).

Approach 1 - different rhythms, same basic tempo. Pamela's Workout works fine for this, using the various programmable aspects of each clock, you can do swing rhythms, hi-hats vs. kicks, etc. etc. Random is possible using the "skip" feature, and the alternate Euclidean sequencer firmware can provide some very interesting beat configurations. But all variations are just divisions/multiplications of the same base tempo (Pam has tempos ranging from 25 to 300 BPM).

Approach 2 - different rhythms, different tempos. For this you need two clock sources, distinct from each other. In the simplest case, you could use two LFOs for this. But the rhythmic aspect is lacking, so you need some kind of rhythmic clock source for polyrhythms. Like 2 Pams :) Or you could use AND logic with a S&H module and an LFO to have only certain pulses transmit (this gives essentially random rhythms).

I second the recommendation of a Z8000 - it will work well in this application, regardless of approach. But you could also use two smaller (cheaper) sequencers if you want the melodies to be independent. I like the XAOC Tirana for this kind of application, as you can easily remove steps from the sequence for rhythmic variation.

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Post by pwranml » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:35 pm

I think delays can make great poly rhythms if you dial them up right. The E580 has been amazing for this since it has the two separate delay rates. Setting the tap output to 50% and then very slowly turning the delay time can bring about pseudo phasing and "locking".

This doesn't do it justice with the echophon being dialed up sloppily and it not having two separate delays anyway but you get the idea:

I know this isn't what you were asking for just thought I'd add.

extra testicle
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Post by extra testicle » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:12 pm

i use multiple a151 quad switches and doepfer a161 clock/trigger sequencer and 160 clock/trigger divider. it's pretty flexible.

sometimes it can be helpful to divide the clock before going into the a160 as well, which i use another switch to do.

eta: this is in addition to whatever you use to generate your notes. personally i like using one quantized line + sampling and modulating that for the second.

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rutabaga40
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Post by rutabaga40 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:11 pm

Either a Rene and Metropolis working together, or the CV A and B from a Monome White Whale. Or a Modcan Touch Sequencer. All could get you a couple independent melodies of your choosing. If it's true polyrhythmics your after, you can juxtapose different rhythms against each other with all of those, I believe. E.G. set one sequencer to 10 steps and the other to 8 or 7 or 6...etc.

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clusterchord
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Post by clusterchord » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:44 pm

polymeter - same default time unit (like 8th notes etc), but different meter divisions. for example one plays 6/8 and another line plays 7/8, but their tempo/pulse is the same - both play the same number of 8th notes in a minute. what gets out of sync is their downbeats. this can be done with any seq having two tracks and independent setting for pattern lenght, or 2 sequencers synced with clock.


polyrhythm - tempo (and often meter) btwn two sequences is different. either completely asynchronous, or set in a mathematical relationship, so that every once in a while you do get a synchronous beat. both approaches can have interesting results. the former can be done with two sequencers running independent, or a sequencer capable of tempo offsets per track (like the ER). latter with two sequencers and a clock divider/multiplier processing the clock data of the first for the second unit.


i think in all of these scenarios you could get away with ER-101. after that its just getting two "synth voices" in your euro.. oscillators, filters, vcas, envelopes etc.

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Post by wbuttler » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:50 pm

Polyrhythmic sequences is one of my favourite uses for the modular.

You need at least 2 sequencers, each with a separate clock and that can generate different length sequences.

The Hex-inverter Orbitals is a great solution for this. I currently use the Z8000, which has been mentioned earlier. Only weakness of the Z8000 is that you need extra switches if you want to chain some of the 4-step sequences into 8 or 12 steps. However, you can use the two 16-step sequences it generates, and it has separate clocks and resets so you can get different length and different tempo sequences going together. You could also use two Moskwas, but it would be more expensive than one Orbitals.

You also need something to clock each sequence with. I use the 4MS Quad Clock Divider, but there are plenty of other options.

Finally, you will need a pitch quantiser for each sequence, unless you want to fiddle around with precise manual CVs. I have two uscale IIs and a Quantimator. The quantimator is useful because it has a ASR mode that can generate two more melodies in canon with the first one.

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Post by extra testicle » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:35 am

clusterchord wrote:polymeter - same default time unit (like 8th notes etc), but different meter divisions. for example one plays 6/8 and another line plays 7/8, but their tempo/pulse is the same - both play the same number of 8th notes in a minute. what gets out of sync is their downbeats. this can be done with any seq having two tracks and independent setting for pattern lenght, or 2 sequencers synced with clock.


polyrhythm - tempo (and often meter) btwn two sequences is different. either completely asynchronous, or set in a mathematical relationship, so that every once in a while you do get a synchronous beat. both approaches can have interesting results. the former can be done with two sequencers running independent, or a sequencer capable of tempo offsets per track (like the ER). latter with two sequencers and a clock divider/multiplier processing the clock data of the first for the second unit.


i think in all of these scenarios you could get away with ER-101. after that its just getting two "synth voices" in your euro.. oscillators, filters, vcas, envelopes etc.
does the er101 work well for switching between the 2 you think? i find i usually want change between both and the reason i like using switches is it makes it easier for me to conceptualize/figure out what's going on.

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Post by Grrr » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:23 am

After reading the initial comment my first thought was the ER-101 too. It takes a little time to master, but you can nearly do anything on it... and it's 4 sequencers in one module... and it can store the sequences you make... and there's no need for an additional quantizer... and it looks so cool... and the list goes on...

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GoneCaving
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Post by GoneCaving » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:38 am

rutabaga40 wrote:.. or the CV A and B from a Monome White Whale...
Can you independently change the sequence length? ie one length for CV A & trigger 1 vs a different one for CV B and trigger 2? I didn't think that was possible.

Auxiliaryoctopus
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Post by Auxiliaryoctopus » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:07 pm

Thank you for the replies. I have a much better understanding of what I need now. Looks like the er 101 and a couple clock sources might do it.

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