Intellijel 1U Info Thread

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Citizen Klaus
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Intellijel 1U Info Thread

Post by Citizen Klaus » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:26 am

Per mateo's recent suggestion, this thread is intended to compile information regarding Intellijel's 1U spec, so that we can have a place to refer people in response to future questions.

Here is Danjel's original post on the spec:
intellijel wrote:I knew there was a potential for some controversy with our choice of sizing for the 1U modules but we honestly had no ulterior motives behind this other than being the only practical way we could make them work with our design.

As far as following the lead of those who had come before us that is exactly what we did: we calculate sizes based on official 1U rack standards and Doepfer Eurorack measurements.

Given that 1U = 1.75" and a 1U tile panel is 1.7" that would only leave 0.025" for each rail lip (0.6mm!) and that is without accounting for size tolerances and extra spacing which is usually about +/-0.2mm

It was important for us that the 4U cases fit perfectly in a 4U rack space. This requirement drove all the other sizing.

We also looked at Doepfer 3U specs in terms of distance of panel holes relative to edge of 3U space, panel size vs. opening, rail thickness etc.

We also wanted to keep using the 5x2 pin headers for power so that the modules would be compatible with standard power supplies.

I actually think the idea on Tiles to use a mini header is very clever but it does not work for our modules since we have some that will be using the CV/gate bus and +5V rails.
Source


In response to a recent post by pulplogic regarding Pulp Logic/Erthenvar 1U tiles fitting in a 1U rack space, Danjel clarified:
intellijel wrote:But that is because the rails you are using in this do not have any lip at all so they are atypical to the most commonly used rails (e.g. doepfer, tiptop etc.)

As stated in the other thread I made my calculations on the panel size to be the same ratio as the panels used by doepfer in the 3U size.

This is the only way it would work with our extrusions that have lips.
Source

And in response to a question from DonaldCrunk about whether rails with lips are common enough to merit adopting a sizing different from that established by Pulp Logic/Erthenvar, James Husted of Synthwerks wrote:
ersatzplanet wrote:The Vector rails indeed do not have a lip, which is there purely for cosmetic reasons. The standard Doepfer panel size will work with vector rails with no lip, Schroff rails with lips, Z-Rails with lips etc., etc. because they are sized for the HOLE SPACING, NOT the overall 3U size. If the original iU tiles made for the hole spacing of vector rails and rails with lips, they would work for both.

It is unfortunate that the originators of the 1U tiles didn't think of the possibility of the rails with lips being used. This means that buyers will always have to ask because now even the hole spacing is different for both versions.

NOBODY makes 3U modules that ONLY work for lipless Vector rails and not in the ones that have them. They are at least universal.
Source

Long story short: Pulp Logic/Erthenvar 1U tiles use the full 1U of vertical space, but only work with Vector rails. Intellijel 1U modules use slightly less than 1U of vertical space, but work with all rails, including those with lips.

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If anyone wants to add anything, or knows of any other pertinent posts by Danjel or others, please feel free to add them below.

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solitud
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Post by solitud » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:15 am

Any suggestions how to name the new 1U formats to tell them apart?

Intellijel 1U and Pulp Logic 1U?
Lipless 1U and lipped 1U?

I understand the problem but this is a mess!
Users won't understand this and will be left disappointed. And I already regret that we tried to support 1U format on ModularGrid.

ModularGrid lets you drop all quirky mixed 1Us in a row and suggest that they all will fit.
But they won't. :waah:
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Post by Umcorps » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:44 am

solitud wrote:Any suggestions how to name the new 1U formats to tell them apart?
I'd suggest the Intellijel units are called 1U and the Pulp Logic ones are called Tiles.

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Post by solitud » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:48 am

Umcorps wrote: I'd suggest the Intellijel units are called 1U and the Pulp Logic ones are called Tiles.
Not sure if Mr Pulp Logic will agree to that?
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Post by phono1337 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:56 am

solitud wrote:
Umcorps wrote: I'd suggest the Intellijel units are called 1U and the Pulp Logic ones are called Tiles.
Not sure if Mr Pulp Logic will agree to that?
it sounds like the most logical though

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Post by Umcorps » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:07 am

I haven't been following the debate so I'm not up to speed with the feels side of things but, objectively, the Intelligel sizing is closer to being able to claim its generic in a physical sense of fitting all rails that are 1U apart - lipped or otherwise.

If you have to pay attention to the type of rail you are using to accommodate the PL style modules you need to know about that at the outset. Especially as it looks like cases with 1U sections are going to become more common.

"Generic 1U" v "Vector 1U" is another option. Maybe that's less emotive? :despair: Dunno. However its done, there is a difference and it needs flagging in some way.

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Post by botou » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:31 am

...........
Last edited by botou on Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Joe. » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:51 am

Incoming: 3RU tiles.

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Post by Torn n Frayed » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:10 pm

7 new ones up on Modular Grid today...

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Post by Sargon » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:01 pm

A lot of people are claiming that this is "killing" the format. I don't agree with this, but it's certainly creating a pretty big rift.

Also, while we're on the subject, what's the difference between PulpLogic and Erthenvar? Who invented the format? Why are both of their webstores broken all the time?

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Post by justin3am » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:28 pm

Well, I can tell you that I was considering putting together a new rack based on Pulp Logic's Mainframe but once I heard about this potential compatibility issue, I chose to hold off.

I don't want to get into a format which may not be widely supported in the long run, so I'm going to wait until the dust clears on this subject. Until then, I won't be buying any 1u/Tile modules (from Intellijel or Pulp Logic). I imagine that there are others who feel the same.

Not casting any blame here, just voicing my concern.

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Post by JohnLRice » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:29 pm

OT but a similar story:

Wow, this is all surprising and interesting because something similar happened in the 5U world not long ago. In short, long ago Moog created CP panels that are 5.625" tall (as opposed to the 8.75" of the standard 5U modules) to go at the bottom of their cases, normally used for passive mults, attenuators and other shallow utility modules that would fit at the bottom of sloped cases and were often attached to a long piano hinge at the bottom of the case so the whole row could be flipped open.

Anyways, in modern times two different height CP panels (143mm and 147mm) and supporting cases found their way into the market and one is not easily compatible (or at all) with the other. :sadbanana:

See this thread for details:
viewtopic.php?t=120103

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Post by shred » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:12 pm

the PulpLogic / Erthenvar connection has been covered in other threads. Sorry, just don't want to turn this too far away from Intellijel 1U info. Also, their websites are not "broken" all the time, PulpLogic has an Etsy page which he updates frequently and Erthenvar is in the middle of updating their website currently. Not to mention these are probably VERY small ventures and are simply spending their time focused on other matters. Recently I contacted John at PulpLogic with a question and he responded almost immediately & shipping was lightning fast.

You can buy 1U + 3U rack cheeks from PulpLogic made for Vector rails. Synthrotek sells 1U rack ears for Vector rails too. I don't know of anyone making 1U rack ears for Z rails, though I'm sure it won't be hard to do.
All I know of is Intellijel's case offerings (short of just buying rails and measuring holes yourself) which is one of the reasons I went with Vector rails because I wanted to do a DIY case with rack mounted rails (as opposed to measuring and screwing the rails to the case or using end cheeks).

The dust won't clear. There are two different scenarios and it appears neither are compatible with the other. People will have to choose, that's just what it comes down to.
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Post by PolarIceCaves » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:55 pm

shred wrote:
The dust won't clear. There are two different scenarios and it appears neither are compatible with the other. People will have to choose, that's just what it comes down to.
All it will take is more manufacturers to release modules based on one size or the other and then we'll see what happens.

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Post by modernage » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:15 pm

it's all starting to feel a bit like Blu-ray vs. HD DVD. :popcorn:

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Post by TheSolenoids » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:41 pm

Since I am always reconfiguring, I am planning to stay "lipped". I want my rails (which are all currently lipped) to be able to move from one configure to another. Frankly that's why I currently have no tiles. I like earthenvar and love their Primitive ring mod, but wouldn't buy a tile unless it fit a lipped 1 u.

I feel so iconoclastic saying this, but hey, that's the way it is.
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Post by ablearcher » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:27 pm

I recently built a 7u case into a Halliburton suitcase with a bunch of pulp logic tiles in there. I think they are great.

I would vote for vector 1u as the name. Vector rails are the diy standard as far as I know, and are used in most of the cases being built by the smaller companies.

I wonder if the intelligence 1u modules will be as cheap as the tiles? They are like candy! They can really make a system feel like an instrument too.

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Post by mskala » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:41 pm

Umcorps wrote:I'd suggest the Intellijel units are called 1U and the Pulp Logic ones are called Tiles.
1U means 1.75 inches. If there are two formats, exactly one of them is 1.75 inches, and we are giving them names specifically to be able to tell which one is which size, then it doesn't make sense to me for "1U" to be the name of the format whose important defining characteristic is that it is not 1.75 inches.
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Post by Citizen Klaus » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:32 pm

mskala wrote:
Umcorps wrote:I'd suggest the Intellijel units are called 1U and the Pulp Logic ones are called Tiles.
1U means 1.75 inches. If there are two formats, exactly one of them is 1.75 inches, and we are giving them names specifically to be able to tell which one is which size, then it doesn't make sense to me for "1U" to be the name of the format whose important defining characteristic is that it is not 1.75 inches.
They're both 1.75 inches. The difference is, one format includes rail lips in that 1.75 inches, and the other doesn't. (Alternatively, if you go by panel height instead of panel+rails+tolerance height, neither of them are 1.75 inches; the Pulp Logic/Erthenvar tiles are 1.70.)

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Post by handsomepanther » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:49 pm

I wonder What size format is the Make Noise Shared System following? It has that classy 1u row in the center that just makes so much sense.. Did they make sure it was compatible with synthrotek/erthenvar..?

After carefully reading and re-reading this thread I'm still not understanding wtf lips are, probably because I never built my own case, but I know this will confuse lots of people..

I just have to say how disappointing all of this is.. Because I really LOVE erthenvar/pulp logic, own a lunchbox and I'm a big fan of tiles!! But I'm also a major intellijel fanboy and drool at those new cases with with the tile rows..
But.. Then.. I can't put ANY tiles in it except intellijel... Ugh, and the explanation is cryptic at best, the cases they're selling are custom anyway, I Do understand the bit about power, but aren't there adapters for the tiles to work in normal power slots?

If someone ever has the chance to show the intellijel tiles and erthenvar/pulplogic/synthrotek tiles next to each other.. Please post some pictures to shed some light on this, I love intellijel but this tiles business doesn't make sense to me.. I mean.. Isn't this from pulp logic 4U?
http://pulplogic.com/product/mainframe-3u1u/

Would that just fit right in say.. One of these cases?
http://www.thenoizeworks.co.uk/cr204blk ... -480-p.asp

:despair:

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Post by Coetillion » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:55 pm

i have pulp logic and synthrotek tiles in my 7u mn shared system case

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Post by mskala » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:49 am

Citizen Klaus wrote:
mskala wrote:it doesn't make sense to me for "1U" to be the name of the format whose important defining characteristic is that it is not 1.75 inches.
They're both 1.75 inches.
Anybody who applies a ruler is going to disagree.

Yes, one can draw a diagram of how each format works and there will be a dimension somewhere on each diagram that is 1.75 inches. It's also true that each has a panel size that is not exactly 1.75 inches.

But remember why we're doing this at all. We're not just coming up with a good name for one format. We have two formats that are about the same size, but are not the same size and are not compatible, and we need to tell the difference between them. The one whose obvious, directly measurable, size is furthest from 1.75 inches, should not be assigned a name that literally means "1.75 inches."

If you think 0.05 inches matters, than don't call either of them 1U. (Although that same 0.05 inch clearance is standard on full-width 1U rack equipment, which has been called 1U for a long time.) I don't feel strongly about that. It'd also make sense to me to call them both 1U and qualify it in both cases, such as "lipped 1U" and "lipless 1U." But don't call just one of them just "1U," and have that be the one that most clearly is not.
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Post by shred » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:00 am

I hear what you're saying mskala, but I think the salient point is that regardless of which rail you use both fit into the 1U rack space. The rack rail standard is the same across the board so, IMO, if they both fit in a 1U rack space then they are "1U".

A distinction between the two should still absolutely be made, I think your suggestion of "lipped 1U" and "lipless 1U" is a good way to go.

The real meaty info will come when these Intellijel tiles/units/whathaveyou hit the streets and people can do some more detailed comparisons.

And for what it's worth I think the Intellijel designs look really awesome, especially the clock divider, that's a brilliant idea.
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Post by thx2112 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:18 am

Are just the outer diameters different, or are the hole placements different as well?

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Post by flo » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:43 am

mskala wrote:
Citizen Klaus wrote:
mskala wrote:it doesn't make sense to me for "1U" to be the name of the format whose important defining characteristic is that it is not 1.75 inches.
They're both 1.75 inches.
Anybody who applies a ruler is going to disagree.
Correct.
Ty wrote:I brought a blank erthenvar 1U tile to see the size difference with the new Intellijel 1U modules.

Image
Source: viewtopic.php?p=2120035#2120035

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