when i hit a note on my MIDI, there is a sync problem

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willbanks
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when i hit a note on my MIDI, there is a sync problem

Post by willbanks » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:14 pm

yeah, when I hit a note there is a very small, but noticable delay. is there anyway to fix this problem?

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Sandrine
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Post by Sandrine » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:17 pm

Depends what the note is driving? If it's midi on a notebook/generic card you have latency issues, if it's on midi hardware like a synth then likely the midi is getting bogged down by a very intense stream like a control change that is dirty.

-edit- if there's nothing else going on into hardware, the max delay time is about 1 ms (even though it probably takes the audio another mS to get to you ear from the speaker)

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willbanks
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Post by willbanks » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:23 pm

Sandrine wrote:Depends what the note is driving? If it's midi on a notebook/generic card you have latency issues, if it's on midi hardware like a synth then likely the midi is getting bogged down by a very intense stream like a control change that is dirty.

-edit- if there's nothing else going on into hardware, the max delay time is about 1 ms (even though it probably takes the audio another mS to get to you ear from the speaker)
probably latency. i usually use it to make melodies in my DAW, but that latenncy delay is killing me. do i just turn down the latency setting in my DAW?

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Post by Sandrine » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:45 pm

I you can, but usually it's not enough hence "cheap sound card"
There is a free program called ASIO4ALL that somehow converts a regular sound card into an asio-like sound board. Probably it bypasses DSP elements, not sure. But it works great!
http://www.asio4all.com/ Good luck!

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willbanks
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Post by willbanks » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:24 pm

Sandrine wrote:I you can, but usually it's not enough hence "cheap sound card"
There is a free program called ASIO4ALL that somehow converts a regular sound card into an asio-like sound board. Probably it bypasses DSP elements, not sure. But it works great!
http://www.asio4all.com/ Good luck!
that didn't work. is it related to my sound card? or do you think the delay because of my audio interface?

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Post by flo » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:30 pm

Hi. You need to precisely tell us what gear you are using and how it is connected (i.e., what you are trying to do exactly with which tools). Otherwise, we will not be able to give you meaningful advice.

Cheers :guinness:

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Post by facklr » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:50 pm

This is a widely discussed issue completely across the spectrum, and not at all exclusive to Eurorack. I would start with Google, and use the search on Muff's, and then when you get a general knowledge of what to troubleshoot and how, it will lead you to general answers to your specific problem.

There is not just one answer, as in "Do this and you'll be good" There are many, many, many factors to consider.

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Post by shreeswifty » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:41 pm

midi has latency. it's part of the beast when you are trying to control a Euro because the way the DAW handles midi. There are solutions.

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Sandrine
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Post by Sandrine » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:29 pm

Does anyone know if byte for byte USB MIDI is faster or is it just an RS232 interface running at MIDI baud? I avoid them as USB and my other 150 5-pin MIDI jacks don't mate lol

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Post by continuum » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:22 pm

USM MIDI is totally different from serial MIDI. Essentially, USB MIDI is an audio driver with a virtual MIDI port for In and Out. Creating devices that use serial MIDI is extremely easy compared dealing with the USB descriptors, enumeration, drivers/class compliance etc.
Tiptop Audio R&D
www.tiptopaudio.com/

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Scottzilla
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Post by Scottzilla » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:19 pm

USB MIDI isn't limited to the 31,250 bps serial speed of regular MIDI, so it's faster. Data-wise, it transmits the same bytes plus some extra stuff (not even counting all the enumeration and junk continuum was talking about). Of course, if it's a USB-MIDI adapter, at some point it becomes a regular old DIN MIDI connection and it's right back to being 31,250 bps.

(The lack of) MIDI speed itself probably isn't your problem, however, especially if you're only playing one note at a time and still hear it. Your DAW has deliberate latency so that it doesn't get ahead of what your hardware/driver combo can handle. You can adjust this setting so that the latency (and delay) are less, but at some point you may start getting errors and dropouts as your hardware can't keep up any more. Usually you can adjust it to this point and then back it off a bit and that's the minimum delay you can have.

Hardware makes a difference. As others have said, built-in sound hardware usually has pretty bad latency.

Drivers also make a difference. You may have some hardware that works terribly with the Windows drivers, but ASIO drivers work great. Try different driver types if you can.

That ASIO4ALL program willbanks linked to can often do magic; did you try lowering the latency setting in your DAW after installing that and switching to it?

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Post by Sandrine » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:03 pm

I had heard that the USB MIDI comes up as whatever, sometimes just USB AUDIO device. I was going to buy a brand new Roland until I saw it only had the USB. I asked the guy and he said it needed a driver, so it could proprietary and not even MIDI really. As long as DAW software thinks it is.
I was disappointed.
There's DJ stuff like that too that says MIDI, but ain't.

To the original poster of this thread, yes you must select ASIO4ALL in whatever software you're using, and sometimes you have to play with those little arrows (enabling/disabling etc)
Funny I've never owned anything that it didn't work on. Guess I'm lucky!

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Post by Zymos » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:57 am

Does any of this have to do with Eurorack?

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Graham Hinton
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Post by Graham Hinton » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:50 am

Scottzilla wrote:USB MIDI isn't limited to the 31,250 bps serial speed of regular MIDI, so it's faster. Data-wise, it transmits the same bytes plus some extra stuff (not even counting all the enumeration and junk continuum was talking about). Of course, if it's a USB-MIDI adapter, at some point it becomes a regular old DIN MIDI connection and it's right back to being 31,250 bps.
USB MIDI is limited to the USB polling rate which is often as low as 2ms and there is no guaranteed delivery time. The raw data rate is deceptive, the true Baud rate (i.e. how much data gets through in a certain time) is the important factor. MIDI has a start and stop bit per byte so the maximum baud rate is 80% of 31.25kBd and in some hardware this can be achieved. USB MIDI has a large packet size which is inefficient at transporting small messages. If a USB interface is converting traditional MIDI you get the worst of both worlds because one message does not start before the other ends so there are accumulative delays.

The real tragedy of USB MIDI to USB MIDI direct connections is that the opto-isolation of MIDI is lost and you are connecting a computer's noisy 0V in to an analogue audio system.


To the OP, when you hit a note on what you hear a delay on what?
You are not expecting to play MIDI live through a computer are you?

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Scottzilla
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Post by Scottzilla » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:45 pm

Graham Hinton wrote: You are not expecting to play MIDI live through a computer are you?

Windows 3.1 could do it! :youkids:

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