Erica Synths Black Wavetable VCO!!!

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matttech
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Post by matttech » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:00 am

Raven_Martin wrote:Recently picked up one of these bad boys and i'm mightily impressed indeed. Its less deep than most other wavetable offerings in Euro (having only 1 scan CV input and not being able to be FM'd etc). But the sound......jebus that more than makes up for it. Thing sounds so damn alive! Like some kind of beautiful illegitimate bastard offspring of the best things from E350 and Piston Honda (i.e. smooth as fuck but somehow with grit!).
Exactly what I thought

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suthnear
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Post by suthnear » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:29 am

Grimulkan wrote:
soundslikejoe wrote:
Raven_Martin wrote:However, I don't think it can do audio-rate FM (which is probably what you meant anyway?). Just wanted to be clear!
Why do you say it can't do audio rate FM? I seem to remember using it for that very thing...
One can clearly modulate it with a very very fast LFO. So whatever the CV sampling rate is, it definitely seems to at least dip into audio rate territory. However, it doesn't sound like what I'd expect for FM-like sounds, so maybe the maximum rate is still capped.

What would be really cool is linear FM or PM like the E350.
Yeah, it's a pity that this doesn't sound better. The microwave 2/xt had really good sounding FM so it can't be processing power. I think that Grimulkan is likely right about the CV sampling rate...

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Grimulkan
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Post by Grimulkan » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:54 pm

suthnear wrote:Yeah, it's a pity that this doesn't sound better. The microwave 2/xt had really good sounding FM so it can't be processing power. I think that Grimulkan is likely right about the CV sampling rate...
Not that there isn't plenty in the BWT package already! But good for someone to know if it is something they want.

You're right about it not being processing power I think. I just got the tiny Sinc Iter and it PMs beautifully (and it is generating waveforms, not reading off ROM).

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suthnear
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Post by suthnear » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:20 pm

Yeah, it sounds amazing

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turin horsey
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Post by turin horsey » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:59 pm

Good news!


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Grimulkan
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Post by Grimulkan » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:28 pm

Sweet! Finally.

Will it replace some of the existing wavetable banks, I wonder? How would we switch between the new banks and old ones?

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novim
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Post by novim » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:30 am

Great news!
Grimulkan wrote:Will it replace some of the existing wavetable banks, I wonder? How would we switch between the new banks and old ones?
With the extra slot, a new ROM shouldn't displace the old banks. In the video, it looks like the waves from the additional ROM are indicated by combinations of blinking and static lights in the 4-LED menu (whereas currently it's just static combinations of on/off).

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Nightly Closures
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Post by Nightly Closures » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:50 am

It seems to be the case. That would really be great. I wonder if there will be a mode where you can sweep all the banks or if they will stay divided. I'm excited about the new waves.

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novim
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Post by novim » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:45 am

It would be amazing if a firmware update could allow something akin to XY scanning by reassigning the sub switch/jack and CV in/jack. Of course I wouldn't know if that's even possible in its existing form.

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Grimulkan
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Post by Grimulkan » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:23 pm

novim wrote:With the extra slot, a new ROM shouldn't displace the old banks. In the video, it looks like the waves from the additional ROM are indicated by combinations of blinking and static lights in the 4-LED menu (whereas currently it's just static combinations of on/off).
Thanks for pointing it out. That makes sense.
Nightly Closures wrote:It seems to be the case. That would really be great. I wonder if there will be a mode where you can sweep all the banks or if they will stay divided. I'm excited about the new waves.
I hope we can sweep them all. I don't see why that couldn't be possible - the CV is software processed anyway.
Will this need a firmware update, or will the existing firmware automatically detect the additional ROM and adapt accordingly?
novim wrote:It would be amazing if a firmware update could allow something akin to XY scanning by reassigning the sub switch/jack and CV in/jack. Of course I wouldn't know if that's even possible in its existing form.
Don't we sorta have that already? Though it is interpolated in one direction and quantized in the other (bank). Maybe you meant smooth scanning in both directions?

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novim
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Post by novim » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:53 am

Grimulkan wrote: Don't we sorta have that already? Though it is interpolated in one direction and quantized in the other (bank). Maybe you meant smooth scanning in both directions?
I did, yeah. But that's a good point. I haven't tried subtle modulations of the within AND between banks at the same time. I imagine the "between" part would be a bit rough though.

I'd be curious if anyone has more thoughts on how the BWT and the e350 compare in terms of sound and functionality. There's a helpful post upthread about the pros/cons (mostly pros) of each, but any other input would be welcome. I'm tempted by the Morphing Terrarium because of that ability to scan a table in two dimensions. I've watched every YouTube video on each, but I'm still not sure how I'd describe the sound of one vs. the other. Both isn't really an option in my current rack.

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Grimulkan
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Post by Grimulkan » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:42 am

I made some playlists for myself a while back for a similar purpose, maybe they will help you:
https://soundcloud.com/grimulkan/sets/e ... etable-vco
https://soundcloud.com/grimulkan/sets/e350

I had both for a while and I initially didn't warm up to the BWT, but then I totally did and am currently selling the E350. I'd have both if I could, but space, etc.

For LFO, smooth scanning & phase modulation the E350 is better, but the BWT is more versatile and I just used it a lot more as a result. With the E350 I mainly used the "vocal" B bank and occasionally the LFO bank "C" bank for harsh sounds, but BWT gives my FM, 303 acid, pure formants and a whole bunch of other things in a pinch.
Also, E350 gives the choice of 2 different waves at the same frequency, but I preferred the BWT choice of same wave at 2 different octaves.

E352 looks like a different beast, may try that some time for cloud mode.

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novim
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Post by novim » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:32 pm

Interesting! I had been assuming (maybe influenced a bit by its reputation) that the E350 was simply the more versatile of the two. I guess it depends partly how you define "versatile" but you make good points about choice of waves (ROMs will bolster that too) and the sub out.

I think the BWT has an immediate WOW factor. The demo really sold me. Then that wore off a little and my eyes/ears started wandering. But just lately, since Pamela's New Workout arrived, I've been experimenting with much more subtle modulations and treating the sub out with envelopes and timings that are very different from the main out. I've actually been surprised at just how much life and activity that could draw out of the BWT, making it sound like multiple different sound sources.

So... I think I've answered my own question, but a bit of confirmation helps. Thanks.

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Grimulkan
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Post by Grimulkan » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:50 pm

novim wrote:Interesting! I had been assuming (maybe influenced a bit by its reputation) that the E350 was simply the more versatile of the two. I guess it depends partly how you define "versatile" but you make good points about choice of waves (ROMs will bolster that too) and the sub out.
Yeah, I should have put a big IMO on that. I have other modules for PM and Expert Sleepers stuff for fancy LFOs.

Sounds like you already have your answer, but in case it matters to someone else, I should add: E350 needs attenuators on the CV inputs, probably with another module. The BWT, like many Erica Synths, is sadly very lacking in CV but has attenuation.

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Post by Rafi » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:35 am

Eureka!! :party:


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Post by Ypsi Kid » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:28 am

They are up for sale on Erica Synths site now for 25 Euros. I just snagged one.

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Tonefloat01
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Post by Tonefloat01 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:17 pm

While I'm very excited to hear that they finally released a new wavetable ROM, I'm a little disappointed that the new ones aren't very aggressive sounding like I was expecting them to be. Maybe they will continue to release alternative ROM's in the future because it is truly a great sounding module.

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soundslikejoe
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Post by soundslikejoe » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:29 am

Tonefloat01 wrote:While I'm very excited to hear that they finally released a new wavetable ROM, I'm a little disappointed that the new ones aren't very aggressive sounding like I was expecting them to be. Maybe they will continue to release alternative ROM's in the future because it is truly a great sounding module.
Can't disagree with this... The "organ" waves were my least favorite in the original release. Was a bit meh to see more organ in the expansion rom... but I still bought one!
:mrgreen:

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DanJGW
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Post by DanJGW » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:36 am

soundslikejoe wrote:
Tonefloat01 wrote:While I'm very excited to hear that they finally released a new wavetable ROM, I'm a little disappointed that the new ones aren't very aggressive sounding like I was expecting them to be. Maybe they will continue to release alternative ROM's in the future because it is truly a great sounding module.
Can't disagree with this... The "organ" waves were my least favorite in the original release. Was a bit meh to see more organ in the expansion rom... but I still bought one!
:mrgreen:
Amen, not liking the organ in this context but yeah, I'll probably buy the new ROM anyway.

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soundslikejoe
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Post by soundslikejoe » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:09 am

When I bought the new ROM, I kept telling myself "maybe you just haven't figured out how to use these organ sounds. Surely there is a context where they are awesome...... I hope."


Anyone have any patch tips or uses for the original organ waves? I just can't imagine myself plugging up a keyboard and playing "Alleluia" or other church classics. :hihi:

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Grimulkan
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Post by Grimulkan » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:47 am

Haha, yeah +1 on not knowing what to do with organ but still buying one :hihi:

I guess if you really want organ, you'd go for something with polyphony, but if you instead want something organ-y to mess with in Euro, the BWT is there. Just not sure what the latter would be like yet.

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Post by Grimulkan » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:10 pm

To be fair, there's interesting stuff in the ROM besides the organ tables. Stabbed Sine sounds interesting to me. There are some harsher sounding choices too.

With wavetable demos in general (including this one), I think there is a lot of focus on sweeping the table (and maybe changing the pitch) to showcase various timbral changes. That's not the whole picture of course. I mean, I can see doing that for a drone or SFX. If there was polyphony and/or some reverb/delay, maybe an evolving pad.

But I discovered many uses for the old BWT waveforms only after I started using it like a regular subtractive synth oscillator, i.e., with a volume or filter envelope, but the wavetable sweep modulated to introduce accent or variation. Or piping the waveform through another module to bring out some interesting harmonics that you don't usually find in analog oscillators.

So even if the demo doesn't click, who knows...

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Nightly Closures
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Post by Nightly Closures » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:07 pm

When I begin with an organ sound with this module, I rarely end up with something organ sounding.

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Nightly Closures
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Post by Nightly Closures » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:08 pm

And yeah, I was also hoping for more initially interesting waves. I will also be getting this.

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Post by wellurban » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:31 pm

Nightly Closures wrote:When I begin with an organ sound with this module, I rarely end up with something organ sounding.
Yes: organ wavetables can be a great starting point for basslines, especially when layered or filtered. They're also fairly pure, so roughing them up with some overdrive or distortion can work wonders.

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