Today my small discovery was...

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tigersi
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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by tigersi » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:30 pm

ATW wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:34 pm
AbundantChoice wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:33 pm
tigersi wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:00 am
Are the NE patch ideas on here or elsewhere?
https://www.noiseengineering.us/blog/sample-and-hold
👆thx! just added the link to the post above, too. cheers.
Thank you thank you to you both there are some really good ideas and thought trains on that site too. :tu:
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pieter
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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by pieter » Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:14 pm

I ran the three outputs of Euclidean Circles into a mixer and fed the clock a square wave at audio rate from one of my oscillators. Changing the fills and lengths of the euclidean rhythms made some really cool and complex harmonics. 1 v/o into the oscillator lets you play the EC musically.

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by MvK » Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:24 pm

my small discovery today was probably nothing new for some. I was trying to make cymbals with basic analog modules and thought the ring modulation was a way to get some nice complex harmonic dependencies. Of course using two oscs ringmodulating each other is way too "simple" so the first thing I did was replace one osc with noise. That got me more into the cymbal territory but sounded crap. The low frequencies of the noise seemed to destroy the thing. And the lack of a 2nd "tone" was avoiding the generation of the complex (dis)harmonies. So I used a Hipass filter on the noise at around 6 kHz and that was much better. But only when I increased the resonance on the hi pass to nearly selfoscillation really convincing cymbals appeared. The results got even better when I used a VCA instead of a ringmodulator cutting the negative portions of the modulator. The result goes into a lowpass filter CVed by an AR envelope and slighly distorted.

now don't tell me that that is the established way to do it because I found it out all by myself and learned more than I would have by reading a book about it :-) :-)

Suggestions of refinement and other ways to do it would be greatly appreciated.

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Shadewe
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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by Shadewe » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:10 pm

My small discovery today is that the US mail system is A) very disorganized, and B) slow, probably due to Covid.

Not so much a discovery as a rant I guess :)
Practicing social distancing since 1984

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by Agawell » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:21 pm

MvK wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:24 pm
now don't tell me that that is the established way to do it because I found it out all by myself and learned more than I would have by reading a book about it :-) :-)
ok won't tell you
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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by starthief » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:38 pm

Shadewe wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:10 pm
My small discovery today is that the US mail system is A) very disorganized, and B) slow, probably due to Covid.
It's always been at least a little screwy, but they're super flaky right now.

Recently I shipped something from Missouri to Louisiana, and it went to New Hampshire first. And my spouse ordered something from California, it came to St. Louis, and then they sent it off to Ybor City, Florida for a couple of days before returning it to St. Louis. :doh:

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Shadewe
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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by Shadewe » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:56 pm

starthief wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:38 pm
Recently I shipped something from Missouri to Louisiana, and it went to New Hampshire first. And my spouse ordered something from California, it came to St. Louis, and then they sent it off to Ybor City, Florida for a couple of days before returning it to St. Louis. :doh:
For me; LA to Newark, stayed in Newark for 10 days, out to Seattle, then over to Detroit. That's not exact but very close, used big cities for reference.

Btw, I am getting my first module :sb:
Practicing social distancing since 1984

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MvK
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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by MvK » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:11 pm

Agawell wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:21 pm
MvK wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:24 pm
now don't tell me that that is the established way to do it because I found it out all by myself and learned more than I would have by reading a book about it :-) :-)
ok won't tell you
Thanks!

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by GregIcky » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:56 am

Today I learned that you can overdrive a Belgrad using it as a vco, resonance up all the way then turn the cutoff into deep bass territory. Plugged a wogglebug stepped into the 1v/oct with a slow clock into the tempo. Sounds like a bass player stoned out of his mind playing sludgy metal bass lines. Plug more modulation into the balance and he’ll play up the fret board into squealing feedback. It’s basic but it sounds cool AF :sb:

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by Dibek » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:38 am

GregIcky wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:56 am
Today I learned that you can overdrive a Belgrad using it as a vco, resonance up all the way then turn the cutoff into deep bass territory. Plugged a wogglebug stepped into the 1v/oct with a slow clock into the tempo. Sounds like a bass player stoned out of his mind playing sludgy metal bass lines. Plug more modulation into the balance and he’ll play up the fret board into squealing feedback. It’s basic but it sounds cool AF :sb:
The Belgrad Filter sounds really good as an Oscillator, nice tones.

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by GregIcky » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:38 pm

Dibek wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:38 am
The Belgrad Filter sounds really good as an Oscillator, nice tones.
Forgot to mention that the out on the Belgrad was going through an Ultrafold. Sounded kinda like running a bass guitar through a Boss distortion pedal. Sometimes it’s the little things that count.

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by starthief » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:38 am

This webpage about interface design as illustrated on Lego bricks.

It's not PUSH TURN MOVE but it does make some arguments that Eurorack panel designers should be aware of. And I never knew about the flaps/landing gear fiasco on the B-17 :hihi:

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by flies » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:01 am

Agawell wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:21 pm
MvK wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:24 pm
...make a cymbal using an oscillator RM'd with noise thru resonant hpf...
now don't tell me that that is the established way to do it because I found it out all by myself and learned more than I would have by reading a book about it :-) :-)
ok won't tell you
who/which machines do it that way? The method I'm most familiar with is using 3 detuned square oscillators, summed ring modded with another trio of square waves.
my rig https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/622777 (not shown: VCV rack, MOTO 828 mk2, outboard effects)

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by flies » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:17 am

Today I discovered a way to add a bit of grit to a clean bass drone using two lowpass filters in series, the first with VC-resonance. Put the cutoff of the first filter pretty high, and use an audio rate oscilator to modulate its resonance into self-oscillation. Now pass that output through a second lpf to remove the resonant peak.

You know how bass gets attenuated when the resonance goes up? You get that effect, but of course it's not a straight-up tremolo/AM, it's non-linear, has hysteresis, etc.. It adds sidebands and grit.

How it looks on my rack:
Image
my rig https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/622777 (not shown: VCV rack, MOTO 828 mk2, outboard effects)

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Hovmod
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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by Hovmod » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:54 am

I made two little discoveries today:
1. Neither the Doepfer A-110-2 VCO nor the Befaco Even VCO fits in my Moog 104hp Eurorack case, which fully depletes my stock of analog VCOs and forces me to either a) go shopping or b) to abandon my idea of a fully analog self sufficient synth in the Moog case. I'm going for b) for now, and installed the ALM MCO as the only dedicated oscillator.
2. Rearranging a Eurorack setup is a lot more work than I anticipated, and with a whole host of unexpected issues. I wish I hadn't started removing modules before the new plan was ready.

Both of these discoveries can be filed under "first world issues", but I have yelled swearwords at individual modules, floating rack nuts, hard-to-get-to headers, unfillable 1, 2, and 3 hp gaps, Modular Grid, Eurorack in general, my life choices, and my eye sight today. It will be ok, but I really want my hobby to revolve around making music-like noises more than about logistics.

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by Foghorn » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:48 am

Hovmod wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:54 am
I made two little discoveries today:
-SNIP-SNIP-
.
2. Rearranging a Eurorack setup is a lot more work than I anticipated, and with a whole host of unexpected issues. I wish I hadn't started removing modules before the new plan was ready.
Tell me about it.
I emptied 3 racks, sold a few modules, and tried to re-organize 3 racks that had a total of 104 modules and 904 hp of 3U in them.
Now I am unsure just WTF to do with any of these racks.
.
Oh, my small discovery was:
:doh: I think it doesn't really matter how badly modules are organized as long as you get used to how they are organized.(excluding minimizing patch cord length)
.
I guess now I just have to get used to them again.
.
Oh, and put time into them :lol:
I'm not sure what's going on, but, well ah crap..what now?
.......Not really a musician.......

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Hovmod
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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by Hovmod » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:56 am

Foghorn wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:48 am
.
I think it doesn't really matter how badly modules are distributed as long as you get used to them (excluding minimizing patch cord length)
I suppose not, but my bright idea was to try to make a self contained instrument in my 104hp case so I can just grab that if I should ever need to. This alone has turned out to be more difficult than anticipated, but I'll figure out something. Redistributing the rest is proving to be a major headache.

I mean, I'm not even trying really hard to make a logically or ergonomically perfect setup anymore, I just want to fill up the available space at this point. Gah.

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Agawell
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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by Agawell » Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:23 pm

flies wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:01 am
Agawell wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:21 pm
MvK wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:24 pm
...make a cymbal using an oscillator RM'd with noise thru resonant hpf...
now don't tell me that that is the established way to do it because I found it out all by myself and learned more than I would have by reading a book about it :-) :-)
ok won't tell you
who/which machines do it that way? The method I'm most familiar with is using 3 detuned square oscillators, summed ring modded with another trio of square waves.
I can't remember who/where/when I got it from and iirc it was even more basic - noise -> res hp -> vca
not a module - how to patch a really basic hi-hat from really basic modules
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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by ATW » Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:49 pm

starthief wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:38 am
This webpage about interface design as illustrated on Lego bricks.

It's not PUSH TURN MOVE but it does make some arguments that Eurorack panel designers should be aware of. And I never knew about the flaps/landing gear fiasco on the B-17 :hihi:
Good read, thanks for this. The B-17 story is wild, 400 crashes before a psychologist suggested the two identical levers next to each other should maybe be differentiated so pilots don’t accidentally pull the wrong one. :doh:

It’s clear that the small-HP-centric module design philosophy can lead to interfaces with an *operational* focus. I.E., all the same types of things like ins and outs are grouped in a uniform grid, knobs are identical in size and shape, and grouped, etc.

This is why a compact matrix mixer or mutable instruments clone may have a steeper learning curve. The interface may satisfy the constraints of a small size and high density, but it can impose the B-17 problem. Is this the CV input for input A or B? What knob, of these 6 identical knobs, attenuates the CV?

The Disting mk4 is an obvious example of operational design. A column of knobs and inputs, each of which change functions depending on which of a hundred modes is selected. This asks a lot of the user—it is nearly impossible to acclimate to the interface without either many hours of familiarizing oneself with just how I7 and A4 work, or having Modes app or the manual or cheat sheet open In a tab. Among my modules, it has some of the best payoff and flexibility in a small HP in exchange for the steepest learning curve. I am not sure I am ready for the EX though!

Dieter’s matrix mixer is a comparatively easy UI to follow, same with his ADSR, and LFO (does it get clearer than the A-145?).

The worst of both worlds would be a large, multi-function/mode, operational interface design. Too big, too complex. This factor is what personally steers me in some of my module choices, and esp sequencer choices. Modular sequencers in particular have to deal with balancing comfortably performance-oriented layouts with deep features. The Rene v1 ve. v2 threads on this forum highlight the challenges and design triumphs there. The Mimetic Digitalis
does a good job (for me) of presenting an interface organized by function—and a good balance of density and features.

Food for thought when thinking about where a modular system is headed. When does one rationalize extreme hp density, and when is a spade called a spade because the interface is too oblique?

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by FraMauro » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:14 pm

The Zlob MiniAtt is an insanely useful module for the money. Tiny footprint, cheap kit (easy build) and so, so useful

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:25 pm

Shadewe wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:10 pm
My small discovery today is that the US mail system is A) very disorganized, and B) slow, probably due to Covid.

Not so much a discovery as a rant I guess :)
The USPS is indeed messed up right now, but not really because of COVID. It's because of some policies implemented by the new Postmaster General to "increase efficiency." I could tell you a lot more about it, but I don't want to get banned again -- Google it.
this night wounds time,

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by flies » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:11 pm

FraMauro wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:14 pm
The Zlob MiniAtt is an insanely useful module for the money. Tiny footprint, cheap kit (easy build) and so, so useful
what do the switches do?
my rig https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/622777 (not shown: VCV rack, MOTO 828 mk2, outboard effects)

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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by circuitburst » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:44 pm

flies wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:11 pm
FraMauro wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:14 pm
The Zlob MiniAtt is an insanely useful module for the money. Tiny footprint, cheap kit (easy build) and so, so useful
what do the switches do?
Mutes, I'm guessing judging from the description here:
https://zlobmodular.com/product/mini-att/
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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by Phitar » Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:32 pm

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:25 pm
Shadewe wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:10 pm
My small discovery today is that the US mail system is A) very disorganized, and B) slow, probably due to Covid.

Not so much a discovery as a rant I guess :)
The USPS is indeed messed up right now, but not really because of COVID. It's because of some policies implemented by the new Postmaster General to "increase efficiency." I could tell you a lot more about it, but I don't want to get banned again -- Google it.
+1 on that! There is a boatload of political BS adding to the covid issues. But that is all I'll say about that cos I don't want either of us banned. As far as small discoveries..... Using Planar as an input to a NLC Let's Splosh or a Worng Vector Space is pretty niffty-keen. Sure I read that somewhere on Muffs first but just tried it this week and I Like It! (I repeat myself when under stress... I repeat)
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Re: Today my small discovery was...

Post by starthief » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:13 pm

So, the original 16n Faderbank had 16 analog CV outs, and sends i2c messages and MIDI CC as well. The Tesseract Sweet 16 also has 16 CV inputs, so you can convert those to MIDI or i2c as well. Handy.

What I just realized is, it also acts as 16 analog attenuators that work fine for audio as well as CV. That's a pretty nice bonus in functionality, and will help me tame too-hot signals going into the E520 it's sitting near, when I don't need all 16 channels for sequencing or something.

The sample rate for converting audio to MIDI CC messages is not really suitable for audio... it's maybe 160Hz or so? More than adequate for general CV purposes, but I'm definitely not going to be using it as a sound card :hihi:

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