Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

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dBVelocity
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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by dBVelocity » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:26 am

OHEXOH wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:01 pm
So here's my super basic 101-style question, I have the Forge set up to receive a clock into it's Logic input.
When the Gate/reset is triggered the Forge IS instantly playing segment one. Ergo the clock will advance to segment 2 if segment one has reached the end , and is waiting to advance.

Using the preset sequencer is likely not the answer.. just a redundancy in reset behavior.

It seems you could adjust the duration of segment one to be longer but not over the intervals of the clock source?

If you still have an issue here then maybe try using a sequencer gate signal as the clock on the logic input.. e.g. a mult of the hi hat.

It may help to know the source modules here..
I currently have some presets running logic for clock with no issue. I use octocontroller for the CF gate and logic that is being slaved from another sequencer. Octocontroller just waits for the master to begin and I suspect the new Mob of Emus will be a similar affair that will pair nicely.

You could also go wild and ignore step one eliminating the time duration on it altogether to use it as an evaluation stage ( it's discussed on this thread around page 19 iirc) and have a 7 step sequence or tie it to another preset with more odd steps or build however many steps you like together. Remember stages can be skipped, linked, for conditions etc. Sure you should figure out how to get stage one in the game but you could also work past it.

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by OHEXOH » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:52 am

dBVelocity wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:26 am
If you still have an issue here then maybe try using a sequencer gate signal as the clock on the logic input.. e.g. a mult of the hi hat.

It may help to know the source modules here..
I currently have the clock going into the logic input, the clock is coming from a Pamela's New Workout.

:despair:
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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by hlmm » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:59 am

OHEXOH wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:12 am
Thanks, I’ll give that a try. What I’m also learning is the Forge when not stepped with a clock and is instead running at a given tempo, appears to be off with some of my other modules also set set the same tempo. For example, when I send a reset whilst in play, the reset will often happen just the Forge has moved to the next segment. Only slightly but there’s a blip from the next contour. I can fix that by slightly nudging the bpm down by 0.1. I’m not sure which module is the culprit though...
Yes, I think that is normal - I have two Forges and when I set them to same bpm they are off after a while (I would expect that to happen with any other module to a certain degree). I am not sure if calibration affects that, I suspect yes. You can make a 10 min step after which trigger is sent and measure with the stop-watch how precise it is.

To get back to your original problem - the best solution would be of course the get rid of it at the source = do not send clock advancing pulse when you are reseting, send one or another but not both at the same time. In any case reseting through preset sequencer works very well for me.

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by BrokenBo » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:20 am

i am finding that setting the CF to 120 and using the scale function in the option menu works better than setting precise bpm.

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Re:

Post by OHEXOH » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:39 pm

cheliosheart wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:50 am
Here’s how one might build a vibrato.

Segment 1: Time = 0 seconds, Level = 0v Relative, Shape = Linear, Condition = wait4gate then jump to Segment 2

This first segment simply waits for a gate signal before moving on to Segment 2. The shape here is actually inconsequential since time is set to zero and the voltage is set to zero volts relative to the last output voltage (meaning voltage level hasn’t changed). Whatever gate signal you are using to drive your pitch sequence I would mult out and patch into Satellite’s Gate input.
—-
Segment 2: Time = 0 seconds, Level = 0v Relative, Shape = CV1 passthrough

This second segment checks whatever voltage is present in CV1 input and passes it through instantaneously because Time is set to zero. Level might actually be inconsequential here because of our shape is set to CV passthrough, but this setting ensures there are no voltage deviations from last segment. At this point the output from the Satellite should mirror the pitch sequence because the gate signal is one and the same. Essentially it is like a sample and hold.

Here’s where it gets fun.
—-
Segment 3: Time = 0.05 seconds, Level = +0.03v Relative, Shape = Linear, Condition = on Gate Hi, jump to Segment 2

This segment is the entry point of our vibrato loop. In 0.05 seconds the voltage moves +0.03v Relative (linearly) from the previous segment (which was whatever signal was present at CV1 input.) So for example, if the voltage was +1.00 volt, it would move to +1.03 volts. There is an added condition to check if a gate signal is present before 0.05 seconds passes and if so, it jumps back to Segment 2 to again “sample” the input at the CV1 input. If not, it proceeds to the next segment.
—-
Segment 4: Time = 0.1 seconds, Level = -0.06v Relative, Shape = Linear, Condition = on Gate Hi, jump to Segment 2

This segment is the downward swing of the vibrato. In 0.1 seconds the voltage moves -0.06v Relative (linearly) from the previous segment. So sticking with our example, if the last output was at +1.03 volts, it would move to +0.97 volts. Again the same condition to check for a gate signal is applied to this segment.
—-
Segment 5: Time = 0.1 seconds, Level = +0.06v Relative, Shape = Linear, Condition = on Gate Hi, jump to Segment 2

This segment is the upward swing of the vibrato. Using our example, if the last voltage was +0.97 volts, it would move to +1.03 volts in 0.1 seconds. Same condition applies.
—-
Segment 6: Time = 0 seconds, Level = 0v Relative, Shape = Linear, Condition = Always Jump to Segment 4

This segment simply loops back to the downward swing of the vibrato. Time set to zero means this loop point is instantaneous and Level set to 0v Relative means the voltage doesn’t deviate from last Segment. So in our example the voltage remains +1.03v as it loops back to Segment 4.

Note that unless another gate signal is present, it will loop infinitely thus creating the vibrato effect. And because the gate signal is the same as the one driving the pitch sequence, each note will have the same vibrato effect.
I just want to say this blew my mind and really makes me think about how the CF can be approached in a new way (for me at least). :hail:
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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by OHEXOH » Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:32 pm

Struggling with the Forge today, I'm hoping one of your wigglers can help me. I have my Trigger 1 set to "End Any Segment" which says a gate or trigger is generated when any segment ends. However I don't get any triggers with this setting. I can get them with "Begin Any Segment" or "Any Jump" but those are not what I'm after. I need it at the end. Help!
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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by hlmm » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:29 pm

My guess is that you are advancing from segment to segment by external clock — for end triggers to be sent, segments need to complete their defined time.

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by dip_registered » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:57 am

Simple question, I’ve gone over the transition shapes part of the manual but can’t see that it’s an option to flip the shape so you get a fall rather than a rise. Can someone confirm it can? Or is there a process I’m missing? Thanks!
FS (US): ADDAC206 Switch, Rossum Satellite, Tokyo Tape Music Center 158 Rev 2 (Sine Sawtooth Generator)

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by dBVelocity » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:26 pm

The shape displayed is only representative of the voltage contour. If the next stage target level is lower than the prior, then the shape is automatically a fall.

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by dip_registered » Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:22 pm

dBVelocity wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:26 pm
The shape displayed is only representative of the voltage contour. If the next stage target level is lower than the prior, then the shape is automatically a fall.
That simple explanation connected so many dots for me. Thanks!
FS (US): ADDAC206 Switch, Rossum Satellite, Tokyo Tape Music Center 158 Rev 2 (Sine Sawtooth Generator)

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by OHEXOH » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:05 pm

I recently got a Satellite and couldn't help but notice the screen is not aligned flush to the panel. Instead it is tilted backwards with the top edge not flush at all and the bottom edge flush. I removed the module and the ribbon that is connected to the screen is pretty tight and (if anything) feels too short for the screen to sit flush and is pulling it back a little.

This normal? Feels slightly off for a Rossum product which are typically top notch and well designed.
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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by Ivo Ivanov » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:49 am

OHEXOH wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:05 pm
I recently got a Satellite and couldn't help but notice the screen is not aligned flush to the panel. Instead it is tilted backwards with the top edge not flush at all and the bottom edge flush. I removed the module and the ribbon that is connected to the screen is pretty tight and (if anything) feels too short for the screen to sit flush and is pulling it back a little.

This normal? Feels slightly off for a Rossum product which are typically top notch and well designed.
I got one like this too and after getting in touch with Rossum and Perfect Circuit, it was verified that this is a manufacturing defect and I was able to exchange it for another one. Interestingly, the second one doesn't have a tilted screen but it's also not flush with the panel; there is a gap in between the panel and the screen, which I find unusual because my Control Forge has a screen that is completely flush with the panel. I'd contact the retailer and/or Rossum to get it sorted. (hopefully you didn't get it from PC, which would imply that they re-sold my defective unit - either that or there are more than one units out there with this issue).

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by Ivo Ivanov » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:57 am

Found a couple of pics of the defective unit for reference
Attachments
IMG_0201.jpeg
IMG_0199.jpeg
IMG_0198.jpeg

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by OHEXOH » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:37 pm

Ivo Ivanov wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:49 am
I got one like this too and after getting in touch with Rossum and Perfect Circuit, it was verified that this is a manufacturing defect and I was able to exchange it for another one. Interestingly, the second one doesn't have a tilted screen but it's also not flush with the panel; there is a gap in between the panel and the screen, which I find unusual because my Control Forge has a screen that is completely flush with the panel. I'd contact the retailer and/or Rossum to get it sorted. (hopefully you didn't get it from PC, which would imply that they re-sold my defective unit - either that or there are more than one units out there with this issue).
Thanks for the reply. Mine looks identical to yours, and yes I bought it from Perfect Circuit back on Nov 16. Hmmmmmm.

Image
Image
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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by Ivo Ivanov » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:15 pm

OHEXOH wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:37 pm

Thanks for the reply. Mine looks identical to yours, and yes I bought it from Perfect Circuit back on Nov 16. Hmmmmmm.
Hmmmmmm indeed!

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by Sam Botstein » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:21 pm

We are aware of this issue and are working on a fix as efficiently as possible.

It isn’t the same unit. Perfect Circuit did get the unit that they had sold Ivo back to us.

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by Ivo Ivanov » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:06 pm

Sam Botstein wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:21 pm
We are aware of this issue and are working on a fix as efficiently as possible.

It isn’t the same unit. Perfect Circuit did get the unit that they had sold Ivo back to us.
Thanks for the clarification Sam. Good to hear it's being addressed (because I plan to buy a second Satellite in the not too distant future). Cheers

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by OHEXOH » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:37 pm

@Sam - ok so it's normal? I ask as I sent a support request and haven't yet had a reply. When I try and do support via Muffs I'm told to use the Rossum website... when I use the Rossum website the response is here. :hmm: :oops:
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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by Sam Botstein » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:45 pm

OHEXOH wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:37 pm
@Sam - ok so it's normal? I ask as I sent a support request and haven't yet had a reply. When I try and do support via Muffs I'm told to use the Rossum website... when I use the Rossum website the response is here. :hmm: :oops:
We are aware of this issue and are working on a fix as efficiently as possible.

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by OHEXOH » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:59 pm

I have a weird situation which needs some expert Forgers to help me untangle. It's actually a relatively simple task & set up but for whatever reason, the Forge is not doing what I would expect to happen.

I'm essentially trying to make a comparator and the Forge is perfect for this. Here's my set up...

S1: Time = 0 / Level = -5v / Shape = 0 Linear / Jump Mode = "when CV1<" / Jump Target = S1 / Conditional Value = 0
S2: Time = 0 / Level - +5v / Shape = 0 Linear / Jump Mode = "when CV1>" / Jump Target = S2 / Conditional Value = 0

This translates to: stay on S1 until voltage into CV1 is greater than 0v and send -5v to the Output. Once voltage into CV1 is greater than 0v jump to S2 and send +5v to the Output. And vice versa.

The jumping between segments works based on the incoming CV, but when I'm on S1 the Output sends out +5v (not -5v) and when I'm on S2 the Output sends -5v (not +5v). I am monitoring the correct output (ie: not the reversed Output). And even weirder, the Transition Shape on S1 is not the Linear shape - instead it is the reverse of the Linear shape (slope going down).

What am I doing wrong? :hmm:
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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by dBVelocity » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:15 pm

Try using the DC delay shape.. the linear is likely saying.. "hey, travel to this level .. Oh wait, I need to jump to the start before I go anywhere"

With the DC delay you should get the steady voltage from the go.

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by OHEXOH » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:46 pm

OK - I figured it out - I needed to have the Jump Modes set to "if@end CV <>". I guess "when CV <>" is evaluated and actioned before the Segment plays, which in turn means the target value is only set afterwards, so even though the Forge was in Segment 1 it's value was still that of Segment 2 (and vice versa).

Anyway(!)... if anyone is interested in a comparator here's how it works:

S1: Time = 0 / Level = -5v / Shape = 0 Linear / Jump Mode = "if@end CV1<" / Jump Target = S1 / Conditional Value = 0
S2: Time = 0 / Level - +5v / Shape = 0 Linear / Jump Mode = "if@end CV1 >" / Jump Target = S2 / Conditional Value = 0

OK next question, could this be expanded to compare CV1 with CV2?...
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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by OHEXOH » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:54 pm

dBVelocity wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:15 pm
Try using the DC delay shape.. the linear is likely saying.. "hey, travel to this level .. Oh wait, I need to jump to the start before I go anywhere"

With the DC delay you should get the steady voltage from the go.
I tried your suggestion as according to the manual:

"DC Delay, the segment's CV jumps immediately to the Target Level and remains there for the entire length of the segment."

Except it doesn't work, even though the segment changes, the CV stays at the value of the previous segment's Target. It's also still flipping the Shape round - so even though DC Delay is visualized with a line at the top, on Segment 1 it displays the line at the bottom (ie: it's vertically flipped - wha?). Is this a bug - it doesn't feel like it's acting correctly.
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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by hlmm » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:30 am

OHEXOH wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:59 pm
...
S1: Time = 0 / Level = -5v / Shape = 0 Linear / Jump Mode = "when CV1<" / Jump Target = S1 / Conditional Value = 0
S2: Time = 0 / Level - +5v / Shape = 0 Linear / Jump Mode = "when CV1>" / Jump Target = S2 / Conditional Value = 0

This translates to: stay on S1 until voltage into CV1 is greater than 0v and send -5v to the Output. Once voltage into CV1 is greater than 0v jump to S2 and send +5v to the Output. And vice versa...
Time = 0 does not translate to "stay on S1 until..." but to "jump immediately to next step". Try to set the tíme to max value (9999s) and have the shape to DC Delay as suggested. Also the targets in your example are reversed (S1 is jumping to S1 and S2 to S2).

So something like that should work:
S1: Time = 9999s / Level = -5v / Shape = 30 DC Delay / Jump Mode = "when CV1>" / Jump Target = S2 / Conditional Value = 0
S2: Time = 9999s / Level = +5v / Shape = 30 DC Delay / Jump Mode = "when CV1<" / Jump Target = S1 / Conditional Value = 0

---
The graphic of shape parameter (line for DC Delay) is reflecting whether the output value is rising or falling (that is why it is flipped vertically sometimes).

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Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by OHEXOH » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:52 am

Thanks for that I’ll give that a try also. There’s many ways to solve this task, that’s what’s so powerful about the Forge. Love it!
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