Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

Post Reply
OHEXOH
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:32 pm
Location: Portland
Contact:

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by OHEXOH » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:56 pm

hlmm wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:30 am
So something like that should work:
S1: Time = 9999s / Level = -5v / Shape = 30 DC Delay / Jump Mode = "when CV1>" / Jump Target = S2 / Conditional Value = 0
S2: Time = 9999s / Level = +5v / Shape = 30 DC Delay / Jump Mode = "when CV1<" / Jump Target = S1 / Conditional Value = 0
I tried this and it works (I turned the time down to something lower than max but larger than zero).

Nice. However, is there a reason that the other segments flicker in order when on Segment 2? Is this just a quirk of the Hardware? Segment 2 is fully lit, but I can see the other segments sequentially flicker at the rate of the time setting. It's weird as there should be no reason why they're doing this. :hmm:
Gear for sale (Reverb): https://bit.ly/2Sb90oc

stylesforfree
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 302
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:11 pm
Location: Merseyside

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by stylesforfree » Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:03 pm

OHEXOH wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:56 pm
hlmm wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:30 am
So something like that should work:
S1: Time = 9999s / Level = -5v / Shape = 30 DC Delay / Jump Mode = "when CV1>" / Jump Target = S2 / Conditional Value = 0
S2: Time = 9999s / Level = +5v / Shape = 30 DC Delay / Jump Mode = "when CV1<" / Jump Target = S1 / Conditional Value = 0
I tried this and it works (I turned the time down to something lower than max but larger than zero).

Nice. However, is there a reason that the other segments flicker in order when on Segment 2? Is this just a quirk of the Hardware? Segment 2 is fully lit, but I can see the other segments sequentially flicker at the rate of the time setting. It's weird as there should be no reason why they're doing this. :hmm:
I will give this a go and see what results I get too, I dont think the segments should flicker, I will report back though.

OHEXOH
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:32 pm
Location: Portland
Contact:

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by OHEXOH » Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:39 pm

[EDIT: re-written for clarity based on further experiments]

I'm having inconsistent issues when using the Control Forge as a clock driven sequencer with reset. For my example I will use Preset 453 which is set up to sequence via the Logic input and the condition "wait4LogicRise" and reset is sent to Gate/Trig input. This is how Marco from Rossum also suggested much earlier in this thread.

For convention I'll write Clock & Reset like this 1:1 / 3:1 / 4:1 etc.

Using a Mob of Emus
1:1 - reset is ignored (sequence just plays based on clock)
4:1 - reset happens but Forge loops segments 2 - 5 (not 1 - 4 as would be expected/desired)

Using a Pamela's New Workout
1:1 - reset is ignored (sequence just plays based on clock)
4:1 - reset is ignored (sequence just plays based on clock)

As a comparison I have the same set up plugged into a 2hp SEQ.

Using a Mob of Emus
1:1 - sequence stays on step 1 and doesn't advance (expected behavior)
4:1 - reset happens and SEQ loops steps 1 - 4 (expected behavior)

Using a Pamela's New Workout
1:1 - sequence stays on step 1 and doesn't advance (expected behavior)
4:1 - reset happens and SEQ loops steps 1 - 4 (expected behavior)

I've opened a support ticket with Rossum-Electro with a video demonstrating this. I'm hoping this can be looked into. I don't understand why the Control Forge can't handle a clock & reset when there are presets and documentation that encourage this methodology. I'll update this post with any feedback I get from that.

In the meantime, I hope this post provides useful information for anyone looking to use Control Forge in a clock / reset oriented way. Currently it does not perform that task and I would not recommend it.
Gear for sale (Reverb): https://bit.ly/2Sb90oc

User avatar
hlmm
Common Wiggler
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:16 am

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by hlmm » Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:25 pm

OHEXOH wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:56 pm
hlmm wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:30 am
So something like that should work:
S1: Time = 9999s / Level = -5v / Shape = 30 DC Delay / Jump Mode = "when CV1>" / Jump Target = S2 / Conditional Value = 0
S2: Time = 9999s / Level = +5v / Shape = 30 DC Delay / Jump Mode = "when CV1<" / Jump Target = S1 / Conditional Value = 0
I tried this and it works (I turned the time down to something lower than max but larger than zero).

Nice. However, is there a reason that the other segments flicker in order when on Segment 2? Is this just a quirk of the Hardware? Segment 2 is fully lit, but I can see the other segments sequentially flicker at the rate of the time setting. It's weird as there should be no reason why they're doing this. :hmm:
If you are in Play mode, only one single segment should be fully lit. If you are in programme mode, the "selected for programming" segment is fully lit and other one "currently active in sequence" segment is half bright. It sounds to me that you were in program mode and had some sequence going on.

You made a good point about the reset behaviour, it looks like gate/reset input does not have priority over logic input or something like that. Would be nice to have that fixed. In a meanwhile what worked for me is reseting through preset sequencer inputs.

User avatar
BrokenBo
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:40 am
Location: Vienna

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by BrokenBo » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:08 pm

would it be possible to implement a changeable voltage range via firmware? for example 0-10V .

OHEXOH
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:32 pm
Location: Portland
Contact:

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by OHEXOH » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:13 pm

I'm following up on my post above.

Rossum said the Control Forge doesn’t respond to both rising edges of a reset and clock at the same time. They also said they have no plans to change the behaviour.

In other words if you send a clock and reset trigger at the same time the CF does not respond as you might expect (ie: reset back to step 1 and advance on the next clock pulse). Instead it resets to step 1 and immediately jumps to step 2 (ie: step 2 becomes the start of the sequence). On top of that if you send a clock and reset at the same time and the same rate, the CF ignores the reset entirely. In general and in my opinion, the CF does not handle clock and resets very well at all.

There is a manual solution however. You'll need a logic module that can do XOR as well as AND (a VCA will work for the AND logic).

Send the clock and reset signals into the logic module. Then send the XOR output to the Logic input of the CF (with the CF set to change Segment via the conditional jump 'wait4LogicRise') and send the AND output to the Gate input (to reset the CF). The XOR will 'hide' the trigger when clock and reset trigger together, the AND will 'fire' a trigger when when clock and reset trigger together. It's a workaround, requires another module, but this works and will reset the CF as you probably want when using it as a clock based sequencer (or any similar type of scenario).

If you don't have a logic module or have space for a logic module then you're shit outta luck unless you don't need to send resets to the CF (or are ok with a reset to Segment 2).
Last edited by OHEXOH on Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Gear for sale (Reverb): https://bit.ly/2Sb90oc

MDurden
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:48 am

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by MDurden » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:35 pm

BrokenBo wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:08 pm
would it be possible to implement a changeable voltage range via firmware? for example 0-10V .
Did you find out if this might be possible? I'd be interested in this as well

User avatar
BrokenBo
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:40 am
Location: Vienna

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by BrokenBo » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:25 am

MDurden wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:35 pm
BrokenBo wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:08 pm
would it be possible to implement a changeable voltage range via firmware? for example 0-10V .
Did you find out if this might be possible? I'd be interested in this as well
no unfortunately not.

Sam Botstein
Common Wiggler
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:34 pm
Location: Rossum Electro-Music
Contact:

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by Sam Botstein » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:32 am

BrokenBo wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:25 am
MDurden wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:35 pm
BrokenBo wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:08 pm
would it be possible to implement a changeable voltage range via firmware? for example 0-10V .
Did you find out if this might be possible? I'd be interested in this as well
no unfortunately not.
The -5 to 5 Volt voltage range is hardware and it can’t be changed with a firmware update.

MDurden
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:48 am

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by MDurden » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:29 pm

Sam Botstein wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:32 am

The -5 to 5 Volt voltage range is hardware and it can’t be changed with a firmware update.
Oh ok. The only solutions I've thought of is to use the Pico MScale or the Intellijel Quad VCA that can boost the signal.

LunaticSound
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:50 pm
Location: Hamburg

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by LunaticSound » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:37 pm

MDurden wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:29 pm
Sam Botstein wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:32 am

The -5 to 5 Volt voltage range is hardware and it can’t be changed with a firmware update.
Oh ok. The only solutions I've thought of is to use the Pico MScale or the Intellijel Quad VCA that can boost the signal.
Mult to two mixer (or precision adder) channels

User avatar
wanne
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:16 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by wanne » Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:56 pm

is there an option to use the control forge as a simple quantizer ?

Sam Botstein
Common Wiggler
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:34 pm
Location: Rossum Electro-Music
Contact:

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by Sam Botstein » Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:35 pm

wanne wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:56 pm
is there an option to use the control forge as a simple quantizer ?
Yes.

From page 42:
Quantize Button

Pressing this button while a contour is playing will quantize the contour output to the nearest 1/12th volt for as long as the button is pressed.

If, while pressing this button, you simultaneously press the encoder, the quantize function is locked on and will remain in effect when the button is released. The “Q” indicator in the display will remain lit to indicate this.

Click the Quantize button again to unlock it.

NOTE: If you switch to Program Mode while quantization is active, it remains active.

ANOTHER NOTE: The quantize function
also affects any external CVs that are routed to the output via one of the CV Passthrough shapes.
Be sure to check out the new Mob of Emus! Mob of Emus features seven independent quantizers - one of each channel output, and one for the mix output.

User avatar
hlmm
Common Wiggler
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:16 am

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by hlmm » Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:13 am

wanne wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:56 pm
is there an option to use the control forge as a simple quantizer ?
It works well as a simple (or complex) 1-channel quantizer but you need to program your scales into it. The built-in quantizing feature only does chromatic scale (all 12 positions).

Del
Common Wiggler
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 10:14 pm

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by Del » Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:35 pm

I will read the manual at some point but could anyone tell me a few things about the extent of the randomization options here... 1) Can you set it to choose randomly between a certain set of shapes? Like, you choose 5 instead of it choosing among its huge range. 2) Similarly, can you have random slope times within a certain range? 3) Can end-of-step triggers be set to a probability?

Thanks.

User avatar
hlmm
Common Wiggler
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:16 am

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by hlmm » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:54 am

Del wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:35 pm
I will read the manual at some point but could anyone tell me a few things about the extent of the randomization options here...
The built-in randomisation only affects target level value. You can do all of the things you mentioned but not in a straightforward way, it will need some programming and maybe an external noise signal. Once you have the behaviour programmed you can save it and recall later at will.

User avatar
Bath House
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by Bath House » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:12 am

Hi, thread - I’m borrowing a Control Forge right now and trying my damnedest to get my head around it via the manual and experimenting. How do I sync the progression of the eight stages to an incoming gate signal “sequencer style?” It’s updated to the latest and I’ve turned on global tempo mode in the preset, but I’m trying to figure out how to simply set each stage to “quarter note” and have an incoming gate from another sequencer sync them up?
Catholic Roland Modular New Age Acid:
www.goodglassrecords.com

User avatar
Bath House
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by Bath House » Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:35 pm

Wow, I guess the fact that nobody can answer that confirms that this thing has so much “potential” but even the simplest functionality is lost in this user interface.
Catholic Roland Modular New Age Acid:
www.goodglassrecords.com

User avatar
dBVelocity
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: United States

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by dBVelocity » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:21 pm

Syncing had been discussed a lot recently if you read back a bit..frankly you are asking what has been asked in this thread so many times over.


The short is this: if you want an external clock to step the stages, you use the logic input and have the divisions you want drive the logic. Then you set each stage to wait for logic rise as the jump condition and the following stage as the jump destination.

CF wants to be it's own clock, if you set the global tempo, it should read note divisions as the duration times of stages then you simply program your steps and send a gate signal as a reset.

User avatar
bronzebygold
Common Wiggler
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:56 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by bronzebygold » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:52 pm

dBVelocity wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:21 pm
The short is this: if you want an external clock to step the stages, you use the logic input and have the divisions you want drive the logic.
You can also set the Jump Mode for each stage so it jumps to the next stage immediately on gate rise.

User avatar
dBVelocity
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: United States

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by dBVelocity » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:57 pm

bronzebygold wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:52 pm
dBVelocity wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:21 pm
The short is this: if you want an external clock to step the stages, you use the logic input and have the divisions you want drive the logic.
You can also set the Jump Mode for each stage so it jumps to the next stage immediately on gate rise.
Using the gate rise for this also means you need to turn it off from reset behavior and you essentially lose the reset ability.

User avatar
dBVelocity
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: United States

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by dBVelocity » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:14 pm

Of the many conditions for jump behavior, the "wait 4 logic rise" is useful because the stage will hold until it's driven forward and a dc delay shape sets the level that is held. Segment durations can be 0 for this but long durations will need to play out before the "wait".

Inversely, the "logic rise" condition will jump immediately but if a duration is shorter then it simply progresses to the next stage without the logic.

It's a matter of context ...but if you drive a pattern to the logic and then throw a change into the pattern, the "wait" is a sure way to stay in step.

User avatar
Bath House
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by Bath House » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:43 am

Thank you for the help!
Catholic Roland Modular New Age Acid:
www.goodglassrecords.com

dip_registered
Common Wiggler
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:18 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by dip_registered » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:34 am

With the CF, can you set up to Quantize incoming signal for 1.2v /octave?
FS (US): ADDAC206 Switch, Rossum Satellite, Tokyo Tape Music Center 158 Rev 2 (Sine Sawtooth Generator)

User avatar
hlmm
Common Wiggler
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:16 am

Re: Rossum Control Forge and Satellite

Post by hlmm » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:15 pm

dip_registered wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:34 am
With the CF, can you set up to Quantize incoming signal for 1.2v /octave?
You can program it to remap incoming voltage to something else, so technically yes.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”