Xaoc Belgrad

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Joe., lisa, luketeaford, Kent

Post Reply
guestt

Post by guestt » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:59 pm

Nope, for once I recorded plenty; personally I would, but it's not just mine to share so need to check in before doing that ;)

I am sure something will appear at some point!

uniquepersonno2
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:11 pm
Location: LA

Post by uniquepersonno2 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:07 pm

Question: has anyone else experience some slight slewing on the FM input of the filter? Running my Quadra to it (which has a very snappy envelope imo) I hear much more rise than I would expect, even with the envelope attack at zero. Running the same envelope to my Cinnamon gives a much more percussive and snappy cutoff.
Anyone having a similar experience? I love my belgrad but this does make it difficult to make the plucky lowpass sounds I love so much.

User avatar
starthief
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4171
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:39 am
Location: St Louis, MO
Contact:

Post by starthief » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:27 pm

Nope, the attack and decay are perfectly snappy for me.

User avatar
arthurdent
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 602
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: Ohio, along the North Coast

Post by arthurdent » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:37 pm

uniquepersonno2 wrote:Question: has anyone else experience some slight slewing on the FM input of the filter? Running my Quadra to it (which has a very snappy envelope imo) I hear much more rise than I would expect, even with the envelope attack at zero. Running the same envelope to my Cinnamon gives a much more percussive and snappy cutoff.
Anyone having a similar experience? I love my belgrad but this does make it difficult to make the plucky lowpass sounds I love so much.
I just did a quick check with my Quadra/Belgrad. It seems to be OK as long as I keep the slider for the FM no higher than around 6 - I get a nice clean "snap". If I go higher, up to 8-10, it seems to buzz like it's being driven too high. DUNNO, maybe you should send a note to XAOC.

uniquepersonno2
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:11 pm
Location: LA

Post by uniquepersonno2 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:38 pm

starthief wrote:Nope, the attack and decay are perfectly snappy for me.
Strange... I’ll have to do more testing. Hope it’s not an issue with my module.

uniquepersonno2
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:11 pm
Location: LA

Post by uniquepersonno2 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:40 pm

arthurdent wrote:
uniquepersonno2 wrote:Question: has anyone else experience some slight slewing on the FM input of the filter? Running my Quadra to it (which has a very snappy envelope imo) I hear much more rise than I would expect, even with the envelope attack at zero. Running the same envelope to my Cinnamon gives a much more percussive and snappy cutoff.
Anyone having a similar experience? I love my belgrad but this does make it difficult to make the plucky lowpass sounds I love so much.
I just did a quick check with my Quadra/Belgrad. It seems to be OK as long as I keep the slider for the FM no higher than around 6 - I get a nice clean "snap". If I go higher, up to 8-10, it seems to buzz like it's being driven too high. DUNNO, maybe you should send a note to XAOC.
Hmm, interesting. Maybe I will send them a message. Thanks for testing!

User avatar
xaoc_tech
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:29 am
Location: Poland
Contact:

Post by xaoc_tech » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:32 am

The reason for this behavior is much higher sensitivity of the FM input than other filters. Many VCFs have their CV inputs scaled so that they offer near or exactly 1V/oct when attenuator is fully open, while in Belgrad it is possible to have up to 2 octaves per 1V of modulation. The purpose of this is allowing for full range modulation even with a 5V envelope. Please take it into account while comparing the response to other filters and turn the attenuator down if you are using an 8V or 10V envelope or other modulating source.

FYI, the FM slider is highly bent in order to allow subtle modulations when it is set to small amounts. When set to about 8 you get it 50% open so that it will give the same modulation depth to the V/oct input.

uniquepersonno2
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:11 pm
Location: LA

Post by uniquepersonno2 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:51 am

xaoc_tech wrote:The reason for this behavior is much higher sensitivity of the FM input than other filters. Many VCFs have their CV inputs scaled so that they offer near or exactly 1V/oct when attenuator is fully open, while in Belgrad it is possible to have up to 2 octaves per 1V of modulation. The purpose of this is allowing for full range modulation even with a 5V envelope. Please take it into account while comparing the response to other filters and turn the attenuator down if you are using an 8V or 10V envelope or other modulating source.

FYI, the FM slider is highly bent in order to allow subtle modulations when it is set to small amounts. When set to about 8 you get it 50% open so that it will give the same modulation depth to the V/oct input.
Wow, very interesting and I appreciate the explanation. I did some testing earlier and got much better results with some tweaking and now that I have this to go off of I'm sure I can dial in exactly what I want. I appreciate the detailed responses to my query!

User avatar
arthurdent
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 602
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: Ohio, along the North Coast

Q

Post by arthurdent » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:35 am

xaoc_tech wrote:The reason for this behavior is much higher sensitivity of the FM input than other filters. Many VCFs have their CV inputs scaled so that they offer near or exactly 1V/oct when attenuator is fully open, while in Belgrad it is possible to have up to 2 octaves per 1V of modulation. The purpose of this is allowing for full range modulation even with a 5V envelope. Please take it into account while comparing the response to other filters and turn the attenuator down if you are using an 8V or 10V envelope or other modulating source.

FYI, the FM slider is highly bent in order to allow subtle modulations when it is set to small amounts. When set to about 8 you get it 50% open so that it will give the same modulation depth to the V/oct input.
This makes sense because, according to the manual, the Quadra is designed to output 0-8 volts.

bartdecrem
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:14 pm
Location: San Francisco, ca

just bought this

Post by bartdecrem » Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:52 pm

really looking fwd to playing w it!

bartdecrem
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:14 pm
Location: San Francisco, ca

n00b q: simplest way to send both ADSR and LFO to Belgrad

Post by bartdecrem » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:00 pm

Sorry to be such a n00b!

I just put up my first modular, and love BELGRAD.

Was wondering what's the simplest way (using another module or a Stackcable maybe?) to have both ADSR and LFO affect cutoff.

Much appreciate any advice!

User avatar
starthief
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4171
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:39 am
Location: St Louis, MO
Contact:

Post by starthief » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:15 pm

You don't want to combine multiple outputs into one input with a Stackable -- use them only to send one output to multiple outputs.

(The chances of damaging modules is pretty low, but the chances of getting the results you want is also pretty low except on modules designed specifically to allow that.)

Use a DC-coupled mixer -- something like Shades, Veils, Links, 321, 3x MIA, etc.


Alternately, you could patch the envelope into V/Oct on Belgrad and use the FM input for the LFO.

User avatar
BaloErets
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1061
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:00 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Contact:

Re: n00b q: simplest way to send both ADSR and LFO to Belgra

Post by BaloErets » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:22 pm

bartdecrem wrote:Sorry to be such a n00b!

I just put up my first modular, and love BELGRAD.

Was wondering what's the simplest way (using another module or a Stackcable maybe?) to have both ADSR and LFO affect cutoff.

Much appreciate any advice!
You have several options :tu:

Stack-cables would work, but bear in mind that you would be going full volume of both the ADSR and LFO with only the FM attenuator to control their volume (unless of course either the ADSR and/or LFO have their own)

If you have a mixer with attenuation per channel, you could send LFO to channel 1, ADSR to channel 2, and then use the mix out to the FM input. Then you would have volume control of both ADSR and LFO, plus a global attenuation of both with the FM attenuation slider on the Belgrad.

The 3rd option would be to send one of them the the FM input and the other to the V-Oct input as they both control the frequency. Just bear in mind that you would probably again want some form of attenuation for whatever you are sending to the V-Oct input, and that the response is going to be different because it's of course scaled as 1 volt per octave.

Hope that helps! :tu:

EDIT; Starthief beat me to it :hihi:

bartdecrem
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:14 pm
Location: San Francisco, ca

Post by bartdecrem » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:17 pm

thanks so much, @baloerets and @starthief :tu: :tu:

R.U.Nuts
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1816
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:43 pm

Post by R.U.Nuts » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:10 pm

So I found a new use for Belgrad: It can wail and howl pretty sweet. I didn't experiment a lot with the CV over resonance until recently and this is what came out (you can hear Belgrad right fromt the beginning:
https://soundcloud.com/asafoetida/tuva

The resonance is set to the edge of self oscillation. Belgrad in low-/highpass mode. Now I modulate the resonance with a unipolar triangle LFO. The same LFO also modulates span. As the voltage of the LFO rises self oscillation kicks in at different levels on the two filter poles making one of them sound delayed. The span modulation causes detuning between the two filters. The result is some nice animal-like howl. At about 0:50 I start sending a trigger signal into Belgrad's audio input resulting in the drum-like sound. The trigger sequence comes from the same LFO as above sent into a Doepfer A-156 quantizer with the trigger output of the quantizer sent into Belgrad's audio in. The exponential response of the quantizer causes the triggers to speed up as the voltage of the LFO rises and thus the drumming gets faster as the howl pitches up. Voi lá: Shaman-like ritual drums.
The rest is Wogglebug audio into Rings for the metallic percussion and drones and a heavily FMed DPO for the huge drum sound. Both sounds played live with a Keystep and a René.
Last edited by R.U.Nuts on Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Hovercraft
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1168
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:22 am
Location: DC

Post by Hovercraft » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:42 pm

R.U.Nuts wrote:So I found a new use for Belgrad: I can wail and howl pretty sweet. I didn't experiment a lot with the CV over resonance until recently and this is what came out (you can hear Belgrad right fromt the beginning:
https://soundcloud.com/asafoetida/tuva

The resonance is set to the edge of self oscillation. Belgrad in low-/highpass mode. Now I modulate the resonance with a unipolar triangle LFO. The same LFO also modulates span. As the voltage of the LFO rises self oscillation kicks in at different levels on the two filter poles making one of them sound delayed. The span modulation causes detuning between the two filters. The result is some nice animal-like howl. At about 0:50 I start sending a trigger signal into Belgrad's audio input resulting in the drum-like sound. The trigger sequence comes from the same LFO as above sent into a Doepfer A-156 quantizer with the trigger output of the quantizer sent into Belgrad's audio in. The exponential response of the quantizer causes the triggers to speed up as the voltage of the LFO rises and thus the drumming gets faster as the howl pitches up. Voi lá: Shaman-like ritual drums.
The rest is Wogglebug audio into Rings for the metallic percussion and drones and a heavily FMed DPO for the huge drum sound. Both sounds played live with a Keystep and a René.
Nice work! Great sounds coming out of the Belgrad, and some interesting modulation techniques. I never get tired of experimenting with Belgrad--it's a chameleon-- capable of so many different sounds.

User avatar
bommelito
Common Wiggler
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:41 am
Location: Germany

Post by bommelito » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:01 pm

That's really great, really!

And gives me a lot of ideas.

R.U.Nuts
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1816
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:43 pm

Post by R.U.Nuts » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:59 am

Thanks a Lot!
Hovercraft: Yeah, especially the trigger trick with the quantizer is one of my favourites. Actually I abuse The A-156 as often as a burst generator as I use it as an actual quantizer.

User avatar
cptnal
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3739
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:48 am
Location: People's Republic of Scotland

Post by cptnal » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:17 am

I wish y'all would stop giving me ideas for modules that are off for repair :cry:

R.U.Nuts
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1816
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:43 pm

Post by R.U.Nuts » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:25 pm

New Belgrad heavy (yes: heavy) track. Belgrad in double lowpass mode Tito up self oscillating in the beginning -nice growls and wails. Somewhere around 3:30 you can hear how I switch to lowpass/bandpass at full volume :zombie: After that it's fed with a saw wave. Tito up. Close to self oscillation. Piped through DLD for frippertronics.

https://soundcloud.com/asafoetida/altai-2

User avatar
Dragonaut
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:00 pm
Location: Lake Placid, NY

Post by Dragonaut » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:55 am

Super nice.
https://soundcloud.com/acaciabridge (IDM, Ambient, Bass, Downtempo)
www.instagram.com/dr_science_phd (synths, hikes, and views.)

User avatar
digable-me
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:23 am
Location: London

Post by digable-me » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:47 am

I'm thinking about replacing my Korgasmatron II with Belgrad. I love the Korgasmatron, but I just feel like something new in my 6U. One thing that I think is special about the Korga is the drive on the inputs. It's basically the only means of distorting signals I have in my system, so I'm wary of losing it. How easy is it to get overdrive/distortion out of the Belgrad. How does it sound?

R.U.Nuts
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1816
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:43 pm

Post by R.U.Nuts » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:26 am

Belgrad will overdrive with the input level at max. Of course it also depends on how hot your input signal is. Furthermore the Tito switch set to the up position (self-mod) actually sounds more like heavy distortion than filter FM to my ears. I love that sound. It's never harsh. I don't like harsh distortion with lots of top end. I prefer wooly, fuzzy sounds.

User avatar
Silentnotes
Common Wiggler
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:07 pm

Post by Silentnotes » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:58 am

R.U.Nuts wrote:Belgrad will overdrive with the input level at max. Of course it also depends on how hot your input signal is. Furthermore the Tito switch set to the up position (self-mod) actually sounds more like heavy distortion than filter FM to my ears. I love that sound. It's never harsh. I don't like harsh distortion with lots of top end. I prefer wooly, fuzzy sounds.
I agree that the Tito switch sounds great. I prefer the down position but they are both warm and nicely distort the sound, especially when you find the position that maches the resonance of the sound source.

R.U.Nuts
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1816
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:43 pm

Post by R.U.Nuts » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:11 am

Silentnotes wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:Belgrad will overdrive with the input level at max. Of course it also depends on how hot your input signal is. Furthermore the Tito switch set to the up position (self-mod) actually sounds more like heavy distortion than filter FM to my ears. I love that sound. It's never harsh. I don't like harsh distortion with lots of top end. I prefer wooly, fuzzy sounds.
I agree that the Tito switch sounds great. I prefer the down position but they are both warm and nicely distort the sound, especially when you find the position that maches the resonance of the sound source.
Yeah, up position is wooly, down position is bubbly. That's how I would describe it. :hihi:

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”