Xaoc Belgrad

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digable-me
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Post by digable-me » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:10 pm

R.U.Nuts wrote:
Silentnotes wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:Belgrad will overdrive with the input level at max. Of course it also depends on how hot your input signal is. Furthermore the Tito switch set to the up position (self-mod) actually sounds more like heavy distortion than filter FM to my ears. I love that sound. It's never harsh. I don't like harsh distortion with lots of top end. I prefer wooly, fuzzy sounds.
I agree that the Tito switch sounds great. I prefer the down position but they are both warm and nicely distort the sound, especially when you find the position that maches the resonance of the sound source.
Yeah, up position is wooly, down position is bubbly. That's how I would describe it. :hihi:
Sounds good! I don't like harsh high frequency distortion either. Wooly sounds perfect.

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Post by bitbin » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:50 pm

Hi all, just received mine today and I have to say I am struggling to get this warm, distorted filtered sound that I am hearing come from you and the various youtube clips.

Im driving the input as much as possible and I am using a combination of waveforms from a single oscillator to get some richness but Im not getting anything near as cool as you lot.

I love this deep overdriven, breaking up sound in this track

https://soundcloud.com/asafoetida/altai

Any suggestions what I could try?

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Post by versipellis » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:55 am

What kinds of modulation sources are people using for their Belgrads' FM and Span? I've ended up with mostly hot garbage with different CV sources, heh, and I know I'm not modulating it right.

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Silentnotes
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Post by Silentnotes » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:18 am

bitbin wrote:Hi all, just received mine today and I have to say I am struggling to get this warm, distorted filtered sound that I am hearing come from you and the various youtube clips.

Im driving the input as much as possible and I am using a combination of waveforms from a single oscillator to get some richness but Im not getting anything near as cool as you lot.

I love this deep overdriven, breaking up sound in this track

https://soundcloud.com/asafoetida/altai

Any suggestions what I could try?
Have you engaged the Tito switch? Try playing with only one filter peak, Balance and Span fully CCW then add resonance about 12 and tweak the Frequency.

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Post by Silentnotes » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:19 am

Piano/Clouds/Belgrad

[video][/video]

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Post by xaoc_tech » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:46 am

Most common mistakes are to use extreme settings: opening Reso to the maximum, setting the Span to high value or operating the Balance far from center position. Also, modulating the cutoff with FM slider all the way up while the input signal is 10Vpp. Using these will very likely yield disappointment. The best way to learn Belgrad is to employ subtle settings and a little bit of modulation.

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Post by R.U.Nuts » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:59 pm

Silentnotes wrote:Piano/Clouds/Belgrad

[video][/video]
Sounds great! Even though I'm not a huge fan of huge reverb. Are you running the piano into Belgrad?

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Post by R.U.Nuts » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:21 pm

bitbin wrote:Hi all, just received mine today and I have to say I am struggling to get this warm, distorted filtered sound that I am hearing come from you and the various youtube clips.

Im driving the input as much as possible and I am using a combination of waveforms from a single oscillator to get some richness but Im not getting anything near as cool as you lot.

I love this deep overdriven, breaking up sound in this track

https://soundcloud.com/asafoetida/altai

Any suggestions what I could try?
Hey there. That's my track. So thanks!
The reason why you're struggling getting that sound probably is that it's actually a Mix of two VCOs feeding Belgrad (one saw and one square but any combination of waveforms with a lot of harmonics will do the trick). Both VCOs are fed with the same sequence but one gets a second faster sequence through a precision adder as well. Then Belgrad gets the same sequence mix into the 1V/oct input through an attenuator which is dialled back in order to make Belgrad track the VCO frequency just slightly. Filter setting is highpass/lowpass, Tito switch in up position, balance centered, span at 9 o' clock, resonance just below self oscillation, cutoff somewhere between 9 and 10 o'clock. Span is modulated by a triangle LFO just very subtle and an envelope with slow attack and release modulates the cutoff - also only very subtle. Additionally the rise and fall times of the envelope are modulated by a random voltage. The trigger for the envelope comes from a sequence not related to the CV sequences. Input gain of Belgrad is cranked. And there's a VCA between the VCO mixer and Belgrad which is also modulated by the cutoff envelope so basically input gain is also modulated via the VCA.
I think essentially that breakup sound comes from the different frequencies of the VCOs and Belgrad's cutoff beating against each other. So try experimenting with very subtle and/or slow cutoff sweeps while cranking the resonance fairly high and Tito switch in up position.

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Post by Silentnotes » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:43 pm

R.U.Nuts wrote:
Silentnotes wrote:Piano/Clouds/Belgrad

[video][/video]
Sounds great! Even though I'm not a huge fan of huge reverb. Are you running the piano into Belgrad?
Thank you! I am not either, you can hear it in my other stuff, but this texture sounded too big for any other size :)

If I remember correctly, I recorded 8 seconds of unknown piano concerto, that was playing on koma fieldkit fm radio, into clouds and then ran it through Belgrade and into Analog Keys for reverb and delay. I slowly modulated Position on Clouds and Frequency on Belgrade with the same random voltage from Marbles Y output.

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Post by Silentnotes » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:49 pm

R.U.Nuts wrote:
bitbin wrote:Hi all, just received mine today and I have to say I am struggling to get this warm, distorted filtered sound that I am hearing come from you and the various youtube clips.

Im driving the input as much as possible and I am using a combination of waveforms from a single oscillator to get some richness but Im not getting anything near as cool as you lot.

I love this deep overdriven, breaking up sound in this track

https://soundcloud.com/asafoetida/altai

Any suggestions what I could try?
Hey there. That's my track. So thanks!
The reason why you're struggling getting that sound probably is that it's actually a Mix of two VCOs feeding Belgrad (one saw and one square but any combination of waveforms with a lot of harmonics will do the trick). Both VCOs are fed with the same sequence but one gets a second faster sequence through a precision adder as well. Then Belgrad gets the same sequence mix into the 1V/oct input through an attenuator which is dialled back in order to make Belgrad track the VCO frequency just slightly. Filter setting is highpass/lowpass, Tito switch in up position, balance centered, span at 9 o' clock, resonance just below self oscillation, cutoff somewhere between 9 and 10 o'clock. Span is modulated by a triangle LFO just very subtle and an envelope with slow attack and release modulates the cutoff - also only very subtle. Additionally the rise and fall times of the envelope are modulated by a random voltage. The trigger for the envelope comes from a sequence not related to the CV sequences. Input gain of Belgrad is cranked. And there's a VCA between the VCO mixer and Belgrad which is also modulated by the cutoff envelope so basically input gain is also modulated via the VCA.
I think essentially that breakup sound comes from the different frequencies of the VCOs and Belgrad's cutoff beating against each other. So try experimenting with very subtle and/or slow cutoff sweeps while cranking the resonance fairly high and Tito switch in up position.
Very nice patch!

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Post by lordymosh » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:13 am

Is the v/oct jack used to modulate the cutoff frequency or is that the FM jack?

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Post by Foghorn » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:24 am

What exactly does the "Tito" switch do?
I can not seem to find any documentation online.

Foghorn

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Post by lisa » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:25 am

lordymosh wrote:Is the v/oct jack used to modulate the cutoff frequency or is that the FM jack?
Both.
Foghorn wrote:What exactly does the "Tito" switch do?
I can not seem to find any documentation online.
”Another unique feature that can produce unusual sonic effects is the internal cou- pling topology which applies double non- linear audio-rate modulation to the filter cores. It is controlled by the tito switch 15 and may be toggled from the neutral posi- tion either up for self-modulation or down for cross-modulation (fig. 3). The sm mode gives the resonance a radical and textured sound, while xm mode adds a warbly and chirpy character in different scenarios such as processing drums or bass.”

http://xaocdevices.com/manuals/xaoc_belgrad_manual.pdf
My first modular track where I used drum modules! There's also a ton of FM cross modulation from the Instruō Cš-L in there and the Metasonix R56 is a big part of the sound. :star:



We also just did a live performance. Just eurorack, a mixer and two nitwits. :hyper: http://tiny.cc/8ndspz

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Post by R.U.Nuts » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:29 am

lisa wrote:
lordymosh wrote:Is the v/oct jack used to modulate the cutoff frequency or is that the FM jack?
Both.
It's an input which modulates the cutoff of the filters and it's scaled in way that it tracks 1V/oct. In contrary to the FM input it has no attenuator for incoming CV in order to provides exact tracking.

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Post by lordymosh » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:58 am

R.U.Nuts wrote:
lisa wrote:
lordymosh wrote:Is the v/oct jack used to modulate the cutoff frequency or is that the FM jack?
Both.
It's an input which modulates the cutoff of the filters and it's scaled in way that it tracks 1V/oct. In contrary to the FM input it has no attenuator for incoming CV in order to provides exact tracking.
Thanks. So basically they both do the same thing but the Filter FM does not track 1V/oct?

So when using the 1V/oct input for filter cutoff you have filter keyboard tracking essentially?

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Post by racooniac » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:52 am

lordymosh wrote:So when using the 1V/oct input for filter cutoff you have filter keyboard tracking essentially?
Exactly

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Post by MossGarden » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:28 pm

After deliberating for months, I finally pulled the trigger on Belgrad.

I have fallen in love with it

[video][/video]

:hail:

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Re: Xaoc Belgrad

Post by Dibek » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:59 am

It´s a really nice filter but since a while i enjoy it as an oscillator even more. It´s great how the tito & fm switch changes the sound, using this together with span and some mopdulation you´re in complex oscillator land, awesome.

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Re:

Post by StrangeAttraction » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:41 pm

Hi,
I just got a Belgrad and I'm loving it.
Just trying to understand if the Balance knob behaviour is correct/as expected or is my module is faulty...
In the first video: I'll try different points at which the filter starts to self-oscillate.
Self-oscillation results for pretty much any of the first four or five modes:
Balance: CCW & Res: 10-11AM
Balance: Middle & Res: 1PM
Balance: CW & Res: 3PM
is this expected behaviour?


In the second video, I'm processing a simple synth line.
P.S. After I posted I realised I had the pitch seq going into V/Oct as well. However, without it the behaviour is pretty much the same, just more pronounced, you can still hear Belgrad self-oscillate at around 3pm.
cheers

xaoc_tech wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:46 am
Most common mistakes are to use extreme settings: opening Reso to the maximum, setting the Span to high value or operating the Balance far from center position.
Last edited by StrangeAttraction on Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Xaoc Belgrad

Post by Dragonaut » Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:50 am

The balance knob will increase resonance at either end of the spectrum so it will go into self oscillation without further turning of the resonance knob. Without watching your videos I’d say your unit works as expected.

Edit: without checking my own Belgrad those knob positions you mention might seem a little off. Maybe worth contacting XAOC. They are very responsive.
https://soundcloud.com/acaciabridge (IDM, Ambient, Bass, Downtempo)
www.instagram.com/dr_science_phd (synths, hikes, and views.)

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Re: Re:

Post by cptnal » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:57 am

StrangeAttraction wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:41 pm
Hi,
I just got a Belgrad and I'm loving it.
Just trying to understand if the Balance knob behaviour is correct/as expected or is my module is faulty...
In the first video: I'll try different points at which the filter starts to self-oscillate.
Self-oscillation results for pretty much any of the first four or five modes:
Balance: CCW & Res: 10-11AM
Balance: Middle & Res: 1PM
Balance: CW & Res: 3PM
is this expected behaviour?


In the second video, I'm processing a simple synth line.
P.S. After I posted I realised I had the pitch seq going into V/Oct as well. However, without it the behaviour is pretty much the same, just more pronounced, you can still hear Belgrad self-oscillate at around 3pm.
cheers

xaoc_tech wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:46 am
Most common mistakes are to use extreme settings: opening Reso to the maximum, setting the Span to high value or operating the Balance far from center position.
Yours does seem to start oscillating too soon (or sooner than mine) when balance is turned up. Around 20 seconds when you have it at midpoint and everything else turned down it's around 11 o'clock. Mine starts at around 3 o'clock at those settings. One of our Belgrads is not behaving normally.

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Re: Xaoc Belgrad

Post by Kroggel » Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:51 pm

Can someone say something on the build quality of the Belgrad potis? I bought an xaoc Zadar the other day. Overall Quality is nice but the Knobs are wobbly and the two push buttons seem to float inside the chassis. A little bit disapointed on that, giving the Pricetag. Would be fine fot me if those little Potis on the Belgrad are not 100% but both of the Big Ones should be absolutely rock solid. Are they?

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Re: Xaoc Belgrad

Post by arthurdent » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:52 pm

Kroggel wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:51 pm
Can someone say something on the build quality of the Belgrad potis? I bought an xaoc Zadar the other day. Overall Quality is nice but the Knobs are wobbly and the two push buttons seem to float inside the chassis. A little bit disapointed on that, giving the Pricetag. Would be fine fot me if those little Potis on the Belgrad are not 100% but both of the Big Ones should be absolutely rock solid. Are they?
I assume you mean the "pots - i.e., the potentiometers. I have the Belgrad, the Samara, and the Praga and the pots on all of them are rock solid. There is a selector switch on the Belgrad for the different filter modes, it has a little bit of wobble to it but it has never been a problem; as I recall it's been discussed earlier in this thread and the XAOC tech said it was the best one they could find to do the job.

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Re: Xaoc Belgrad

Post by Kroggel » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:16 am

Yeah the pots. Sorry it was late ;-) in german we say potis. Good to hear, but also a little bit sad that one of the big knob seems to wooble even if its just a bit. Those tiny modules are so expansive. They should be rock solid. A good pot or button is only a few cent. Have a make noise math, and both cycle knobs are not good either. Totally wobbly and you need to push them on a certain point.

But nevertheless the Belgrad seems great, i´ll take one :yay:

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Re: Xaoc Belgrad

Post by arthurdent » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:50 am

Kroggel wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:16 am
Yeah the pots. Sorry it was late ;-) in german we say potis. Good to hear, but also a little bit sad that one of the big knob seems to wooble even if its just a bit. Those tiny modules are so expansive. They should be rock solid. A good pot or button is only a few cent. Have a make noise math, and both cycle knobs are not good either. Totally wobbly and you need to push them on a certain point.

But nevertheless the Belgrad seems great, i´ll take one :yay:
For what it's worth here's the quote from XAOC about the rotary switch (from post #89 on Page 4 of this thread):

"Well, we had a seriuosly hard time finding a rotary switch that has as much as 10 positions, is readily available in decent quantities, has the right body height and finally - that doesn't cost bonkers. I agree the feeling is not the greatest but these switches are very reliable parts made in Germany (and you can find them in some other euro modules from Eurpe as well)."

But they did come from Germany so that should make you a little bit happy.

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