Mutable Instruments Vs Just Friends

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obeliskmusic
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Mutable Instruments Vs Just Friends

Post by obeliskmusic » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:13 am

I recently sold my other rack so I'm left with a more compact skiff I can take travelling. I feel like I've got my head around the MI stuff nicely, but who's using Just Friends with their MI modules?
I keep using it as a sound source, and struggling to get as much modulation control out of it currently.
My main modular uses are for ambient evolving drones, and more percussive tones and harmonies. Thanks!

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digable-me
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Post by digable-me » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:00 am

Need more attenuators.

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Post by mdoudoroff » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:17 am

Yeah, as digable-me said, you’re going to need attenuators. An inverter might be helpful too.

As for wringing modulation value out JF, start with Shape/Cycle mode, turn down Time (initially) and take a hard look at those six LFOs it’s producing. Change intone to affect their relationship to each other. That’s a big load of modulation to work with. But again… attenuators/attenuverters.

Switch to Transient mode and play around with triggering Just Friends using Ears and Peaks. Etc.

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Post by eBerkhout » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:37 am

I use my Just Friends almost exclusively as a mod source, and very rarely for audio. I tend to think of it as a bigger and slightly wilder version of Batumi with 6 related LFOs. Attenuated modulation of RAMP, CURVE and INTONE can create some really nice evolving waves, which I find are nice to open and close VCAs to fade different elements of a patch in and out.

The new firmware is coming soon so there may be a few new tricks in there that'll appeal to you to. It's been central to almost all of my patching since I got it back in May!

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Post by obeliskmusic » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:00 am

Thanks,

yeah I had Batumi and Maths before. wondering if selling Maths was a good idea! I'll have to see how I get on with the SMR. Can anyone recommend some low HP attenuators/verters?

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Post by obeliskmusic » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:05 am

mdoudoroff wrote:Yeah, as digable-me said, you’re going to need attenuators. An inverter might be helpful too.

As for wringing modulation value out JF, start with Shape/Cycle mode, turn down Time (initially) and take a hard look at those six LFOs it’s producing. Change intone to affect their relationship to each other. That’s a big load of modulation to work with. But again… attenuators/attenuverters.

Switch to Transient mode and play around with triggering Just Friends using Ears and Peaks. Etc.
:guinness:

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Post by eBerkhout » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:14 am

obeliskmusic wrote:Thanks,

yeah I had Batumi and Maths before. wondering if selling Maths was a good idea! I'll have to see how I get on with the SMR. Can anyone recommend some low HP attenuators/verters?
ALM O/A/x2 is 4hp for two channels of attenuation/offset. Can also be used as a mixer.

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Post by bobbcorr » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:54 am

obeliskmusic wrote:Thanks,

yeah I had Batumi and Maths before. wondering if selling Maths was a good idea! I'll have to see how I get on with the SMR. Can anyone recommend some low HP attenuators/verters?
The WMD/SSF S.P.O. and the ALM O/A/x2 come to mind, each at 4hp. Or, you could swap your Rosie out for a Cold Mac and get not just an attenuator/verter but some ADDITIONAL MADNESS.

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Post by obeliskmusic » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:54 am

eBerkhout wrote:
obeliskmusic wrote:Thanks,

yeah I had Batumi and Maths before. wondering if selling Maths was a good idea! I'll have to see how I get on with the SMR. Can anyone recommend some low HP attenuators/verters?
ALM O/A/x2 is 4hp for two channels of attenuation/offset. Can also be used as a mixer.
looks good, now I just have to deal with what to sacrifice from the rack! thanks. :)

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Post by eBerkhout » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:59 am

bobbcorr wrote:
obeliskmusic wrote:Thanks,

yeah I had Batumi and Maths before. wondering if selling Maths was a good idea! I'll have to see how I get on with the SMR. Can anyone recommend some low HP attenuators/verters?
The WMD/SSF S.P.O. and the ALM O/A/x2 come to mind, each at 4hp. Or, you could swap your Rosie out for a Cold Mac and get not just an attenuator/verter but some ADDITIONAL MADNESS.
Good lord, Cold Mac has been an absolute revelation for me in the past few months. So so so useful. Probably need those attenuators/verters/offsets as well, though.

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Post by obeliskmusic » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:02 am

bobbcorr wrote:
obeliskmusic wrote:Thanks,

yeah I had Batumi and Maths before. wondering if selling Maths was a good idea! I'll have to see how I get on with the SMR. Can anyone recommend some low HP attenuators/verters?
The WMD/SSF S.P.O. and the ALM O/A/x2 come to mind, each at 4hp. Or, you could swap your Rosie out for a Cold Mac and get not just an attenuator/verter but some ADDITIONAL MADNESS.
Cold Mac confuses the hell out of me! yikes! Yeah I don't really end up using Rosie for live patching now, but gets more use as 2 mono and one stereo 3 ch mixer and headphone output so I don't have to lug about a mixer. I don't have the luxury of having my gear set up in a permanent spot unfortunately, so unless there's a small 'box' or some kind that can be useful to take a direct out from the tangle to my headphones, I've got to hang on to it for now.

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Post by tebs213 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:10 am

I use a MI Blinds next to my Just Friends and Batumi and it's incredibly useful for any CV work. I don't think I would ever sell any of those modules. Blinds is very easy to use, the very easy to read LED's help you keep track of what's going on when things get really crazy, and certainly with those two modules things can get crazy very quick. I must say though I'm finding it harder to keep Just Friends in envelope mode, it's becoming my favorite sound source.

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Post by damase » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:17 am

eBerkhout wrote:
bobbcorr wrote:
obeliskmusic wrote:Thanks,

yeah I had Batumi and Maths before. wondering if selling Maths was a good idea! I'll have to see how I get on with the SMR. Can anyone recommend some low HP attenuators/verters?
The WMD/SSF S.P.O. and the ALM O/A/x2 come to mind, each at 4hp. Or, you could swap your Rosie out for a Cold Mac and get not just an attenuator/verter but some ADDITIONAL MADNESS.
Good lord, Cold Mac has been an absolute revelation for me in the past few months. So so so useful. Probably need those attenuators/verters/offsets as well, though.
Cold mac is a bit confusing. Would you mind sketching out a quick example of how it would be helpful in this type of situation with limited attenuation. I dont need exact patch examples, but as pointed out Just Friends needs cv attenuation on the outputs as well as the inputs, would cold mac be able to cover all of that at once?

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Post by eBerkhout » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:26 am

damase wrote:
eBerkhout wrote:
bobbcorr wrote:
obeliskmusic wrote:Thanks,

yeah I had Batumi and Maths before. wondering if selling Maths was a good idea! I'll have to see how I get on with the SMR. Can anyone recommend some low HP attenuators/verters?
The WMD/SSF S.P.O. and the ALM O/A/x2 come to mind, each at 4hp. Or, you could swap your Rosie out for a Cold Mac and get not just an attenuator/verter but some ADDITIONAL MADNESS.
Good lord, Cold Mac has been an absolute revelation for me in the past few months. So so so useful. Probably need those attenuators/verters/offsets as well, though.
Cold mac is a bit confusing. Would you mind sketching out a quick example of how it would be helpful in this type of situation with limited attenuation. I dont need exact patch examples, but as pointed out Just Friends needs cv attenuation on the outputs as well as the inputs, would cold mac be able to cover all of that at once?
Nah, I would definitely go with attenuators/offsets AND Cold Mac. I'm using mine with a Mutable Blinds and the aforementioned ALM O/A/x2, but a lot of my modules also have built in attenuators. You can use Cold Mac to attenuate/invert/rectify/etc, but I find this more useful just generating offsets and using CM as some crazy meta-knob that can send contrasting but related CV all around my patch. Trent from Mannequins shows this off in this vid, but I'm on mobile so you'll have to fast forward and find the Cold Mac section... it's the last one before he moves onto the Monome modules. Hope this helps... took me a good six months to get my head around more of CM's functions - it's absolutely mindblowing.

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Post by damase » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:08 am

Thank you. Ive finally gotten a few mannequins things so i expect it to be genius like the rest of the line. Your description of it as the "master knob" for modulation makes it very enticing to me

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Post by chaosick » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:57 pm

eBerkhout wrote:I use my Just Friends almost exclusively as a mod source, and very rarely for audio. I tend to think of it as a bigger and slightly wilder version of Batumi with 6 related LFOs. Attenuated modulation of RAMP, CURVE and INTONE can create some really nice evolving waves, which I find are nice to open and close VCAs to fade different elements of a patch in and out.

The new firmware is coming soon so there may be a few new tricks in there that'll appeal to you to. It's been central to almost all of my patching since I got it back in May!
So if one was to have a couple complex ADSR+Batumi vs maybe one simple ADSR+Just Friends which would you recommend, in a 6U?

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Post by bemushroomed » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:08 pm

Someone on another forum (swedish) broke his Metropolis due to Just Friends sending -12 on the Run Input.. I would probably not buy it after reading about it..

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Post by chaosick » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:46 pm

bemushroomed wrote:Someone on another forum (swedish) broke his Metropolis due to Just Friends sending -12 on the Run Input.. I would probably not buy it after reading about it..
What the..didn't know that could happen.

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Post by bemushroomed » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:09 pm

chaosick wrote:
bemushroomed wrote:Someone on another forum (swedish) broke his Metropolis due to Just Friends sending -12 on the Run Input.. I would probably not buy it after reading about it..
What the..didn't know that could happen.
Mannequins blames Intellijel, says the module should be able to handle it.. The dude had to send in both case and metropolis for repeair (had to read the thread again to refresh my memory)..

Swedish/scandinavian people can read here:
http://www.99musik.se/showthread.php?33 ... ht=friends

I´m personally absolutely no expert in this area, just quoting what he says in the thread. The designer of TTSH (arp clone) + Janost (also Swedish synth designer) are also in this thread, they dont seem too impressed by the design choice by Mannequins.. But again, i am no expert.

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Post by autopoiesis » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:40 pm

bemushroomed wrote:
chaosick wrote:
bemushroomed wrote:Someone on another forum (swedish) broke his Metropolis due to Just Friends sending -12 on the Run Input.. I would probably not buy it after reading about it..
What the..didn't know that could happen.
Mannequins blames Intellijel, says the module should be able to handle it.. The dude had to send in both case and metropolis for repeair (had to read the thread again to refresh my memory)..

Swedish/scandinavian people can read here:
http://www.99musik.se/showthread.php?33 ... ht=friends

I´m personally absolutely no expert in this area, just quoting what he says in the thread. The designer of TTSH (arp clone) + Janost (also Swedish synth designer) are also in this thread, they dont seem too impressed by the design choice by Mannequins.. But again, i am no expert.
Just 'friends' eh ?

Shame to hear about that. The 10V pulse sent out of Maths's and Function's "Signal Input" frustrates me as well, or at least the part of me that holds some concern about accidentally frying several hundred dollars.

I'm going to look into what modes produce these -12V surprises on the Run jack and I guess will just be careful to patch that jack in reverse with JF (not too bad since you're already primed to think that way with the right-to-left normalization of triggers). I still love mine.

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Post by Nofrenchtests » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:39 am

autopoiesis wrote:
bemushroomed wrote:
chaosick wrote:
bemushroomed wrote:Someone on another forum (swedish) broke his Metropolis due to Just Friends sending -12 on the Run Input.. I would probably not buy it after reading about it..
What the..didn't know that could happen.
Mannequins blames Intellijel, says the module should be able to handle it.. The dude had to send in both case and metropolis for repeair (had to read the thread again to refresh my memory)..

Swedish/scandinavian people can read here:
http://www.99musik.se/showthread.php?33 ... ht=friends

I´m personally absolutely no expert in this area, just quoting what he says in the thread. The designer of TTSH (arp clone) + Janost (also Swedish synth designer) are also in this thread, they dont seem too impressed by the design choice by Mannequins.. But again, i am no expert.
Just 'friends' eh ?

Shame to hear about that. The 10V pulse sent out of Maths's and Function's "Signal Input" frustrates me as well, or at least the part of me that holds some concern about accidentally frying several hundred dollars.

I'm going to look into what modes produce these -12V surprises on the Run jack and I guess will just be careful to patch that jack in reverse with JF (not too bad since you're already primed to think that way with the right-to-left normalization of triggers). I still love mine.
It isn't on any particular mode, it is when the patch cable is being inserted/halfway in. A bunch of us Aussie Wigglers are currently trying to get ahold of Gil to find out what the hell is going on. Mine just arrived yesterday, and I've tested it out for the -12v. Another user has fried his Metropolis.

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Post by funqpatrol » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:34 am

pOST count 1

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Post by funqpatrol » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:34 am

pOST count 2 - About to write a thread on that issue guys

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Post by pichenettes » Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:08 am

I think the designer(s) of the JF wanted to normalize the "Run" input to -12V so that it was set to a known, easily detectable voltage when nothing is patched in the jack (detecting unpatched jacks is tricky indeed).

The issue of doing it by connecting the "switch" of the jack straight to -12V is that there is a temporary short to -12V during the insertion of the jack, which can cause the module on the other end to send an excess of current, and exceed the current drive capability of an op-amp or GPIO. A more sensible choice would have been to insert a small resistor (2 or 3k is low enough) between the -12V rail and the "switch", so that, in the event of a short during insertion, only (12 - -12) / 2k = 10mA of current is at most sourced or sinked on either sides. In normal operation, this would cause only a small voltage drop (100/102 x -12 = -11.7V).

I made a similar mistake early in the genesis of Tides, though I found it before the module went in production.

Meanwhile, the problem can be avoided by first patching the jack on the JF side, and only then patching the other side.

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Post by metaBit » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:27 pm

pichenettes wrote:I think the designer(s) of the JF wanted to normalize the "Run" input to -12V so that it was set to a known, easily detectable voltage when nothing is patched in the jack (detecting unpatched jacks is tricky indeed).

The issue of doing it by connecting the "switch" of the jack straight to -12V is that there is a temporary short to -12V during the insertion of the jack, which can cause the module on the other end to send an excess of current, and exceed the current drive capability of an op-amp or GPIO. A more sensible choice would have been to insert a small resistor (2 or 3k is low enough) between the -12V rail and the "switch", so that, in the event of a short during insertion, only (12 - -12) / 2k = 10mA of current is at most sourced or sinked on either sides. In normal operation, this would cause only a small voltage drop (100/102 x -12 = -11.7V).

I made a similar mistake early in the genesis of Tides, though I found it before the module went in production.

Meanwhile, the problem can be avoided by first patching the jack on the JF side, and only then patching the other side.
Does this mean that the danger of Just Friends is only if you are plugging it in to your system while the power is on?

I'm interested in JF, but very NOT interested in risking any of my other modules.

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