FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

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nrg242
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by nrg242 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:56 pm

evileye0702 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:48 pm
nrg242 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:22 pm
I started experimenting with a workaround for the ES-3/CV Tools issue that uses both Silent Way Sync and CV Clock out from ableton.
I'm about to start experimenting with this soon. If I find out a good solution, I'll be sure to share.
i wrote this whole essay about using SW Sync and CV Tools, then realized that using RC24 and trying to feed 24 PPQN into the vector was the futile (and actually not the way to go even by the manual).

just use CR1 or CR4 and use 1 or 4 ppqn out from cv tools. then you just have to figure out how to reset properly.

ADDENDUM: actually after beating my head against the wall all day with this due to an irrational preference for CV based clock, i just hooked up a midi cable, set it to J-MIDI and got on with my day with solid timing to ableton.

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vilovisp
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by vilovisp » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:43 am

i think is extremely bad to need to worry about these stuff when u spend 700 usd in a sequencer , that dont work with cv tools , one of the most used things worldwide for ableton users , is just like a bad joke.

Now even with silent way it randomly decide to stop , is a nightmare im one step to send it back , sorry for the salt i think is best sequencer there is , but all these problems make it unusable , i hope jim can fix these and make it a full instrument cause like these , is not complete and should be sayd that is not compatible with these to save money and time for people.

Also i think that releasing a eurorack module and not try it with ableton properly is a VERY bad idea , just so sad been fighting with these for 4 days , instead of making music.

I would advice to all people to ask for compatibility

if they used cv tools in the future so u dont suffer like me.

the other modes that are not ppqm24 , are not stable at all , u can see the bpm flickering brutally not just 0.5 of a bpm .

Actually they were very nice and responsive the five12 people , is sad to need to get these upset , i trust they can fix it and these was just a space out mistake of a new and amazing company.Il see if i can extend my return period ... :omg:

hugs

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mdoudoroff
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by mdoudoroff » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:52 am

To be fair, Vector predates Ableton’s cv tools by two years. I don’t use Ableton, but I use Bitwig, from whose CV features Ableton’ CV tools are to some extent inspired, and I’m finding they exhibit consistency problems that modular hardware doesn’t necessarily like. Lack of standards is a factor.

I’d certainly like to see improvements from both ends.

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vilovisp
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by vilovisp » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:57 am

mdoudoroff wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:52 am
To be fair, Vector predates Ableton’s cv tools by two years. I don’t use Ableton, but I use Bitwig, from whose CV features Ableton’ CV tools are to some extent inspired, and I’m finding they exhibit consistency problems that modular hardware doesn’t necessarily like. Lack of standards is a factor.

I’d certainly like to see improvements from both ends.
Yes not only vector fail there but also ableton i should say , i never had problems with other sequencer and cv tools but i heard some people that did

So im with you both companies should rise standarts a little more or at least try the products better.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by kesserich » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:27 am

vilovisp wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:43 am
i think is extremely bad to need to worry about these stuff when u spend 700 usd in a sequencer , that dont work with cv tools , one of the most used things worldwide for ableton users , is just like a bad joke.
Yeah, i totally disagree. Vector is a eurorack sequencer and seems to work just fine with most eurorack modules. Ableton is only *now* trying to get into the game of letting their DAW control eurorack synths. They can work out the bugs.

If it makes you feel any better, bitwig (which has had this functionality for much longer) has similar problems. I get around these issues by using the Expert Sleepers plugins which tend to be much more solid.

A lot of modular synth people don't even use DAW's or if they do, they use them only as tape machines.

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vilovisp
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by vilovisp » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:17 am

kesserich wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:27 am
vilovisp wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:43 am
i think is extremely bad to need to worry about these stuff when u spend 700 usd in a sequencer , that dont work with cv tools , one of the most used things worldwide for ableton users , is just like a bad joke.
Yeah, i totally disagree. Vector is a eurorack sequencer and seems to work just fine with most eurorack modules. Ableton is only *now* trying to get into the game of letting their DAW control eurorack synths. They can work out the bugs.

If it makes you feel any better, bitwig (which has had this functionality for much longer) has similar problems. I get around these issues by using the Expert Sleepers plugins which tend to be much more solid.

A lot of modular synth people don't even use DAW's or if they do, they use them only as tape machines.
fully with you even if it hard to accept , but you know many people also used daws , at least in my genera of music 95% people use daws , i hope in the future we can get better integration for all platforms , cause i think is an amazing sequencer , for now my fav , i guess ll just need to be patient , five12 really was very responsive and nice about the subject , defenetly i ll make a ticket to ableton explaining they should invest more in these !!

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by kesserich » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:39 pm

vilovisp wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:17 am

fully with you even if it hard to accept , but you know many people also used daws , at least in my genera of music 95% people use daws , i hope in the future we can get better integration for all platforms , cause i think is an amazing sequencer , for now my fav , i guess ll just need to be patient , five12 really was very responsive and nice about the subject , defenetly i ll make a ticket to ableton explaining they should invest more in these !!
Totally. I use DAW's for arrangements and Max for control, so i agree with you 100%. I think both bitwig and ableton need to take this stuff a bit more seriously although i'm guessing that despite the hype the vast majority of their user base isn't very invested in euro.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by scragz » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:40 pm

My genre of music is D A W L E S S

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by Zymos » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:44 pm

Word!

And those posts are one reason I’m happy about that....


Though I hope people find solutions. I know lots of folks use Live and Vector without issues.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by Wubz » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:43 pm

I reluctantly bought an er-m multiclock. So glad i did. Everything in perfect sync. Hands on control to nudge the 3 sequemcers i have backwards and forwards. The swimg on it is REALLY nice too.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by djthopa » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:23 pm

Same here. Er-multiclock. Synced to silent way. Outputs analog clock to the vector, no issues at all

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by Sinamsis » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:36 pm

vilovisp wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:43 am
i think is extremely bad to need to worry about these stuff when u spend 700 usd in a sequencer , that dont work with cv tools , one of the most used things worldwide for ableton users , is just like a bad joke.

Now even with silent way it randomly decide to stop , is a nightmare im one step to send it back , sorry for the salt i think is best sequencer there is , but all these problems make it unusable , i hope jim can fix these and make it a full instrument cause like these , is not complete and should be sayd that is not compatible with these to save money and time for people.

Also i think that releasing a eurorack module and not try it with ableton properly is a VERY bad idea , just so sad been fighting with these for 4 days , instead of making music.

I would advice to all people to ask for compatibility

if they used cv tools in the future so u dont suffer like me.

the other modes that are not ppqm24 , are not stable at all , u can see the bpm flickering brutally not just 0.5 of a bpm .

Actually they were very nice and responsive the five12 people , is sad to need to get these upset , i trust they can fix it and these was just a space out mistake of a new and amazing company.Il see if i can extend my return period ... :omg:

hugs
Honestly I've been an Ableton user for years now and never once used CV tools, and really didn't even know about it til you mentioned it. I'm going to call bullshit on the most commonly used feature of Ableton. Otherwise, I have it synced to my Cirklon flawlessly. I've used MIDI and DIN Sync without problems. I'm not sure why you're trying to use a CV option to sync a sequencer that has MIDI, other than the fact that Ableton's MIDI clock is shit. So that being the case, one would think that you've either learned to live with it, or come to a reasonable solution like most of us have. A lot of folks use USAMO, others use solutions like the ERM Multiclock. I use the Multiclock and it's fantastic. So I'll be honest, I really don't think your criticism is valid and all this seems to be a bit unreasonable. If it doesn't work, I would recommend continue to work with Jim at Five12, because he's super responsive and a good dude... or move on. But I would encourage you to find some sort of solution to compensate for Ableton's shitty MIDI clock, especially if you use any other hardware.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by evileye0702 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:46 pm

CV Tools a relatively recent addition to Ableton Live so it's definitely not a highly used function.

But all the CV Tools are Max4Live devices and people have modified some of them (ie to work with ES-5) so I suspect it could be modified to meet the needs of the Vector.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by Sinamsis » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:16 pm

Jim emailed me back (on a holiday, in less than 24 hours of getting my message). You can calibrate the Vector to output 1.2 v/oct. I’m going to give it a shot tomorrow and I’ll let you guys know how it goes.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by mixxalot » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:34 pm

Is there a good way to record modular on an SD card of some type and then upload to Ableton and other DAW software packages like Logic in an easy way without dealing with software? I would be curious to know what modular pros like Alessandro Cortini does to record his modular stuff into Logic and so forth. I have mixed experiences getting MIDI to CV working with Ableton and other DAW software from modular.
My music:
https://soundcloud.com/modben

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https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1391380

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by psienide » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:59 pm

Is there a good way to record modular on an SD card of some type and then upload to Ableton and other DAW software packages like Logic in an easy way without dealing with software?

If i'm not recording directly to a DAW I will just use my tascam dr-40x. You can record 2 input channels + stereo microphone (maybe for patch notes as you're going about it) and then just transfer via the sdcard. There are other field recorders that do this as well. The dr40x is really useful because it can double as an audio interface when you need a portable one. Zoom makes comparable products. I'm sure there are more. But for me this is the most immediate method for clean recordings when I don't want to be fooling around with software at the same time.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by BlackDoors » Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:46 am

mixxalot wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:34 pm
Is there a good way to record modular on an SD card of some type and then upload to Ableton and other DAW software packages like Logic in an easy way without dealing with software? I would be curious to know what modular pros like Alessandro Cortini does to record his modular stuff into Logic and so forth. I have mixed experiences getting MIDI to CV working with Ableton and other DAW software from modular.
Zoom is a good call, there's also a few module that do this too (Er-301, Disting EX+ are examples I think?), and even some interfaces and mixers can record directly to a USB stick when the DAW is off. So there's a lot of options, even if some feel bit fiddly as a DAW at times.

As for the sync thing, big yes to silent way and multiclock! But even without more investment in software or hardware, I think having options (and working around any issues with particular combinations) is an essential skill for syncing any gear. I have plenty of pieces of kit where certain combinations don't sync/communicate quite how I would like and while it can be annoying, it is totally normal when interfacing kit to need to work around these.

Vector has a lot of ways to be sync'd so it's not a dealbreaker if you have one particular solution not working immediately. So don't panic over not being able to get CV Tools working - it is a relatively new addition to the program, and as others have said there are a lot of methods that people do have working.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by vilovisp » Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:00 am

Thx all for the good vibes and sorry for the initial rant , i guess we all eventually got frustrated with an equipment we love , as others said i will start saving for a multiclock to finish these problems !! Cant wait until i can afford it !

And be patient about the subject , now i want the expander help hahahah

Im kind of loving it !!

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by Sinamsis » Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:31 am

vilovisp wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:00 am
Thx all for the good vibes and sorry for the initial rant , i guess we all eventually got frustrated with an equipment we love , as others said i will start saving for a multiclock to finish these problems !! Cant wait until i can afford it !

And be patient about the subject , now i want the expander help hahahah

Im kind of loving it !!
Keep an eye out on the used market. I got mine for a significant discount second hand. Read up on it as well. Ricky Tines actually has an interesting video where he shows his workflow on it and I learned a few things from it. If you don’t need the bells and whistles the Expert Sleepers USAMO is another option.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by mixxalot » Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:39 pm

Nice, I just got a new Disting EX so will look into how to use the recording CV algorithm to sd card for uploading to DAW.
My music:
https://soundcloud.com/modben

My modular setup (always work in progress)
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1391380

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vilovisp
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by vilovisp » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Hi , after reading about the jitter in ableton clock i decide to clock vector directly in audio with Silent Way and also with pamela and im getting some horrible horrible clock irregularities. Almost to the point is not usable . im so frustrated with these device , is really bad with external sync at least with my setup , anybody experience these problems?


i try pamela . es-3 , usb , i try playing with clock amplitude , i try so many stuff , always out of sync .



Sadly i dont have more money to invest , i just want the sequencer to clock normally , like all other sequencers i had in the past. Same setup eloquencer work great , same setup rene works great , so is clearly the vector friquing out .

Im very depressed , to get the money for these sequencer is months of work in Argentina and i cant use it properly , im very close to give up send it back and take it as a loss , hopefully i can still return it.

but i really like it , so if anybody had these problems and fix it i would love some help

all the love

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by Sinamsis » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:26 pm

vilovisp wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:17 pm
Hi , after reading about the jitter in ableton clock i decide to clock vector directly in audio with Silent Way and also with pamela and im getting some horrible horrible clock irregularities. Almost to the point is not usable . im so frustrated with these device , is really bad with external sync at least with my setup , anybody experience these problems?


i try pamela . es-3 , usb , i try playing with clock amplitude , i try so many stuff , always out of sync .



Sadly i dont have more money to invest , i just want the sequencer to clock normally , like all other sequencers i had in the past. Same setup eloquencer work great , same setup rene works great , so is clearly the vector friquing out .

Im very depressed , to get the money for these sequencer is months of work in Argentina and i cant use it properly , im very close to give up send it back and take it as a loss , hopefully i can still return it.

but i really like it , so if anybody had these problems and fix it i would love some help

all the love
You're using a lot of subjective descriptors here. I think a video showing the issue would help. I'm also unclear if you've actually tried to just sync it with MIDI to your DAW. I mean, Ableton's clock is wonky but I wouldn't call it unusable. It would help to understand what you're trying to accomplish and to see and hear the actual issues you're having.

Also have you contacted Five12? I find it hard to believe that Jim has not helped you find a solution yet. I emailed him the night before Thanksgiving and he was responding Thanksgiving day, and even had a build of the firmware for my specific request to me by this AM. So I'm a little surprised that he wouldn't be able to help you.

EDIT: it looks like you have contacted Five12 reading back. I dunno dude, sounds like at least one or two folks are using it with Ableton, without something like a Multiclock to clean up the clock a bit, and they're not having issues. I know in a pinch i've synced it through USB without major issues.

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vilovisp
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by vilovisp » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:45 pm

i find from 2 to 5 ms irregularities , is not fine , ll wait for james answer but these is horror.

https://forum.five12.net/forum/eurorack ... -rc24-mode
other horror stories like mine.

im waiting for an answer still =) let see when he do answer.

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newrun
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by newrun » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:40 pm

Do you clock your Vector externally with PNW? Or use Vector's internal clock?

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

Post by invisiblewires » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:20 am

Hi newrun,
I posted the thread in the Five12 forum mentioned above. This issue only occurs if Vector is clocked externally. Internally clocked Vector is jitter-free.

Cheers
Thomas

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