FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

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Daisuk
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Daisuk » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:53 am

joskery wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:47 am
Daisuk wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:06 pm
Got the Vector sequencer today, and I must say, holy crap, I'm blown away! Absolute beast! Spent a few hours making this with it tonight. :)

Great stuff! are the drums also sequenced by Vector? Are they modular or not? Do you have the expander? Just curious, sorry :D :cloud:
Thanks! Yes they are, and yes they are (Akemie's Taiko, ER-301, Plonk and Natural Gate & Braids), and no I don't have it yet, but I will buy it! I've been using it with the Shuttle Control (which I'm now selling to get the expander instead), which works fine, but the expander just seems more handy and easier/more flexible to setup in various ways. :)

Not sure why the embed on the last page didn't work. Maybe cus it's a mobile link? Hmm, let's try it again.


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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by spacenoodle » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:52 pm

Zymos wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:20 pm
spacenoodle wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:06 pm
Rolled back to a much older version and I see 3 CC lanes but MIDI is a buggy mess with notes stuck on.

Some of the interface I like better on this old version. Seems like maybe development on this thing just needs to slow down. I guess just use the latest version and avoid features that don't work? :despair:
I'm running the latest, 1.4.2, and see 3 pages for CC, not just 2.
Thanks for checking. I forgot to mention this happens after formatting a part for chords. I spoke with the developer and he said the third lane for chord parts is used to store the chord type. This will be mentioned in the manual soon.

And CC out for chord and drum parts is confirmed broken. A fix is in place for the next build.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Sinamsis » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:37 am

Daisuk wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:53 am
joskery wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:47 am
Daisuk wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:06 pm
Got the Vector sequencer today, and I must say, holy crap, I'm blown away! Absolute beast! Spent a few hours making this with it tonight. :)

Great stuff! are the drums also sequenced by Vector? Are they modular or not? Do you have the expander? Just curious, sorry :D :cloud:
Thanks! Yes they are, and yes they are (Akemie's Taiko, ER-301, Plonk and Natural Gate & Braids), and no I don't have it yet, but I will buy it! I've been using it with the Shuttle Control (which I'm now selling to get the expander instead), which works fine, but the expander just seems more handy and easier/more flexible to setup in various ways. :)

Not sure why the embed on the last page didn't work. Maybe cus it's a mobile link? Hmm, let's try it again.

The Shuttle Control will let you use the chord function though! Or give you access to two additional tracks from the Vector. It actually adds to the functionality further even though there is overlap in having the expander and a Shuttle Control.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Daisuk » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:50 am

Sinamsis wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:37 am
Daisuk wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:53 am
joskery wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:47 am
Daisuk wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:06 pm
Got the Vector sequencer today, and I must say, holy crap, I'm blown away! Absolute beast! Spent a few hours making this with it tonight. :)

Great stuff! are the drums also sequenced by Vector? Are they modular or not? Do you have the expander? Just curious, sorry :D :cloud:
Thanks! Yes they are, and yes they are (Akemie's Taiko, ER-301, Plonk and Natural Gate & Braids), and no I don't have it yet, but I will buy it! I've been using it with the Shuttle Control (which I'm now selling to get the expander instead), which works fine, but the expander just seems more handy and easier/more flexible to setup in various ways. :)

Not sure why the embed on the last page didn't work. Maybe cus it's a mobile link? Hmm, let's try it again.

The Shuttle Control will let you use the chord function though! Or give you access to two additional tracks from the Vector. It actually adds to the functionality further even though there is overlap in having the expander and a Shuttle Control.
Yeah, it could be useful for the chord function, I guess. Not sure I'm going to use that a whole lot, but should try it out tonight and see. :)

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Sinamsis » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:31 am

I think the chord function can be useful for several things other than simple chords. Combined with a switch you could make arpeggios, you could use it to control FM ratios, etc... basically, the combination makes me question the need for Argos Bleak in my case haha.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Zymos » Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:04 pm

My favorite use for chords so far is to plug each note into a channel of the SWN in LFO -> VCA mode, set to sequentially play each channel. = arpeggiator

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Daisuk » Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:15 pm

Is there a way to repurpose two of the pitch outputs on the expander as velocity outputs for triggers? I want to be able to have 4 "full" voices (gate, pitch, vel) for basic melodic synth voices - but also be able to use a drum part with every drum track having a velocity out. Can I then repurpose the pitch outputs from the expander channel 5 and 6 for this? Or are the tied to being pitch outputs somehow?

I don't have the expander yet, so not been able to test it out. Been trying to, unsuccessfully, figure out how to route velocity for every track on a drum part to a MIDI device (Shuttle Control).

Edit - I have now successfully managed to route velocity for every drum track on a drum part through MIDI, so maybe I won't need that expander afterall. :hihi:

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Daisuk » Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:21 pm

Five12 Vector Sequencer - Shuttle Control integration preset file

So here's a preset file for the Shuttle Control module to integrate with the Vector sequencer. This will give you two additional voices (with pitch, gate and velocity) as well as a MIDI channel dedicated to a drum part, where each drum voice has its own velocity.

Instructions:
- Connect your Shuttle Control to your Mac or PC
- Open the Cargo3 Editor - https://endorphin.es/cargo3/
- Click "open file" and select the file provided in this post
- Click "write preset" and check on your module whichever preset is active (this is the one that will be written to)
- Disconnect from the PC
- Connect your Shuttle Control to your Vector from the Vector's "To Device" USB port into the Shuttle Control's "To device" USB port (yes, you read that correctly).
- You might want to reset your system at this point (might not be necessary)
- On your Vector - go to global and make part 5 (or whichever you want) a drum type part.
- Click global again, scroll with encoder 9 to "USB A - To Device" and set the following:

CH1 - Part 3
CH 2 - Part 4
CH 4 - Part 5
CH 3 - Part 6

- The two additional voices will be located on output 1-3 (voice 1) and 4-6 (voice 2) on the Shuttle Control. The drum voices will be located on outputs 9-16 (with every other output the velocity output for the trigger output before it).
- Part 6 (or channel 3 on the Shuttle) are assigned two separate v/oct outputs. I've not figured out how to make use of them yet, but I imagine you might be able to use them with a chord part somehow, for instance.
- That's it!

Download the preset here:
http://marsmelons.com/muffs/Five12-ShuttleControl.mid

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by spacenoodle » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:40 am

Thanks Daisuk, this looks excellent!

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by kesserich » Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:48 pm

Does anyone know if you can inform the vector what meter a track is in when using midi sync? I have a track in 3/4 and i'm trying to use playlists but when i say 'play preset 1 for 1 bar', it interrupts 1 bar as if its in 4/4 time. I'm pretty sure MIDI beat clock says nothing about time signature so i don't blame the vector for not being able to deduce it.

-Paul

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Sinamsis » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:25 pm

kesserich wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:48 pm
Does anyone know if you can inform the vector what meter a track is in when using midi sync? I have a track in 3/4 and i'm trying to use playlists but when i say 'play preset 1 for 1 bar', it interrupts 1 bar as if its in 4/4 time. I'm pretty sure MIDI beat clock says nothing about time signature so i don't blame the vector for not being able to deduce it.

-Paul
I think this is a moot point. Time signature is irrelevant to most sequencers. You have a run signal, or start and stop signal, or it runs with an incoming clock, and it may have a reset input. But otherwise any sequencer relies on an incoming clock signal. Of course MIDI can get much more complicated than that, particularly when transmitting information like position (this would require some form of song mode). Regardless, the time signature is established by the user in the sequencer itself by defining sequence length or triggering the sequence to reset in one way or another. Even that isn’t totally true as you could have a sequence resetting every 12 beats and it could be in 3/4, alternating 5/4 and 7/4 or a number of other possibilities.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by joskery » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:07 am

Getting closer to... Question: is there a way to mute sequences?

Any other things that seem to be missing still? Apparently fill patterns aren’t in the Vector, at least yet - any other things you might expect and have been a surprise?

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by OHEXOH » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:16 am

joskery wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:07 am
Getting closer to... Question: is there a way to mute sequences?

Any other things that seem to be missing still? Apparently fill patterns aren’t in the Vector, at least yet - any other things you might expect and have been a surprise?
I think the mod in options could be better. You can’t adjust octave/transposition via cv in currently. In general though, it’s an awesome sequencer.
Last edited by OHEXOH on Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gear for sale (Reverb): https://bit.ly/2Sb90oc

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Daisuk » Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:49 am

OHEXOH wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:16 am
joskery wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:07 am
Getting closer to... Question: is there a way to mute sequences?

Any other things that seem to be missing still? Apparently fill patterns aren’t in the Vector, at least yet - any other things you might expect and have been a surprise?
I think the mod in options could be better. You can adjust octave/transposition via cv in currently. In general though, it’s an awesome sequencer.
You can address a whole lot more on the cv ins, probability of chance operators, gate length, ratchets etc.

Honestly, what I'm missing is just small niggles. Stuff like choosing a template project that will autoload. In that vein.

I think this sequencer is absolutely brilliant. It's doing things I didn't knew I wanted a sequencer to do. I'm making far more interesting and varied sequences with this than I have made with any other sequencer, that's for sure. Last night I hooked it up to a deepmind 6 and sequenced that in chord mode, worked a charm. :)

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Daisuk » Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:51 am

joskery wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:07 am
Getting closer to... Question: is there a way to mute sequences?

Any other things that seem to be missing still? Apparently fill patterns aren’t in the Vector, at least yet - any other things you might expect and have been a surprise?
You can mute every part/track easily. Either from the part overview or in the scenes mode (where you sort of arrange your patterns).

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by joskery » Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:50 pm

Thanks, you guys are so helpful. Is it so that if a MIDI keyboard is connected, you can't forward notes played to, say, a MIDI output without first selecting a REC mode? How difficult is it? It seems like not being able to play a specific track easily would be very cumbersome.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Zymos » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:08 pm

Daisuk wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:49 am
OHEXOH wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:16 am
joskery wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:07 am
Getting closer to... Question: is there a way to mute sequences?

Any other things that seem to be missing still? Apparently fill patterns aren’t in the Vector, at least yet - any other things you might expect and have been a surprise?
I think the mod in options could be better. You can adjust octave/transposition via cv in currently. In general though, it’s an awesome sequencer.
You can address a whole lot more on the cv ins, probability of chance operators, gate length, ratchets etc.

Honestly, what I'm missing is just small niggles. Stuff like choosing a template project that will autoload. In that vein.

I think this sequencer is absolutely brilliant. It's doing things I didn't knew I wanted a sequencer to do. I'm making far more interesting and varied sequences with this than I have made with any other sequencer, that's for sure. Last night I hooked it up to a deepmind 6 and sequenced that in chord mode, worked a charm. :)
They meant "can't", not "can" transpose by CV. You can do it through MIDI, I'd hoped using CV would be added, but hasn't happened yet.

Can you explain what "fill patterns" are?

It's vastly capable as it is. There are lots of ideas I'd love to see implemented, but can't think of anything that I expected to find that wasn't there. Except CV for transpose.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by joskery » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:32 pm

Fill patterns á la elektron: You press a button, and additional trigs get activated. Elektron does it so that 'FILL' an attribute for separate trigs, Cirklon has separate fill patterns that you can switch to with a push of a button.

But actually I just realized that the MIDI through thing I outlined above is a potential dealbreaker for me, do you have an idea how it is right now? Sorry to pester you all...

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Daisuk » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:37 pm

Zymos wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:08 pm
Daisuk wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:49 am
OHEXOH wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:16 am
joskery wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:07 am
Getting closer to... Question: is there a way to mute sequences?

Any other things that seem to be missing still? Apparently fill patterns aren’t in the Vector, at least yet - any other things you might expect and have been a surprise?
I think the mod in options could be better. You can adjust octave/transposition via cv in currently. In general though, it’s an awesome sequencer.
You can address a whole lot more on the cv ins, probability of chance operators, gate length, ratchets etc.

Honestly, what I'm missing is just small niggles. Stuff like choosing a template project that will autoload. In that vein.

I think this sequencer is absolutely brilliant. It's doing things I didn't knew I wanted a sequencer to do. I'm making far more interesting and varied sequences with this than I have made with any other sequencer, that's for sure. Last night I hooked it up to a deepmind 6 and sequenced that in chord mode, worked a charm. :)
They meant "can't", not "can" transpose by CV. You can do it through MIDI, I'd hoped using CV would be added, but hasn't happened yet.

Can you explain what "fill patterns" are?

It's vastly capable as it is. There are lots of ideas I'd love to see implemented, but can't think of anything that I expected to find that wasn't there. Except CV for transpose.
Ah, yeah, that makes more sense. :lol:

Fill patterns in the Eloquencer and the Tip Top gate sequencer are a way to perform with fills for say a drum sound, so you can set your drum fill to 16th notes, for instance, hold the fill button, and the sequencer will hit every 16th note on that particular channel for as long as you hold the fill button. Can be a pretty decent performance tool.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by kesserich » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:47 pm

Sinamsis wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:25 pm
I think this is a moot point. Time signature is irrelevant to most sequencers. You have a run signal, or start and stop signal, or it runs with an incoming clock, and it may have a reset input. But otherwise any sequencer relies on an incoming clock signal. Of course MIDI can get much more complicated than that, particularly when transmitting information like position (this would require some form of song mode). Regardless, the time signature is established by the user in the sequencer itself by defining sequence length or triggering the sequence to reset in one way or another. Even that isn’t totally true as you could have a sequence resetting every 12 beats and it could be in 3/4, alternating 5/4 and 7/4 or a number of other possibilities.
i think we are on the same page here but the vector does introduce the concept of a 'bar' in at least 2 places. Once for playlists where you say 'play this preset N bars'. The second time is for change operations where you can say 'this chance operation should only take effects every 2 or 3 bars'. In both of these cases, the vector needs to have a definition of what a bar is. It knows perfectly when a beat occurs but it seems to default counting 4 beats for its definition of a bar.

Here's a very concrete example:
I have a preset of 12 steps each of which is 1/16th note. This is 3/4 time. I now put my vector into playlist mode and tell it to play the preset for '1 bar' before moving on to another preset. The vector assumes 1 bar consists of 16 x 16th notes so it will play the preset 1.33 times before advancing.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Sinamsis » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:11 pm

kesserich wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:47 pm

i think we are on the same page here but the vector does introduce the concept of a 'bar' in at least 2 places. Once for playlists where you say 'play this preset N bars'. The second time is for change operations where you can say 'this chance operation should only take effects every 2 or 3 bars'. In both of these cases, the vector needs to have a definition of what a bar is. It knows perfectly when a beat occurs but it seems to default counting 4 beats for its definition of a bar.

Here's a very concrete example:
I have a preset of 12 steps each of which is 1/16th note. This is 3/4 time. I now put my vector into playlist mode and tell it to play the preset for '1 bar' before moving on to another preset. The vector assumes 1 bar consists of 16 x 16th notes so it will play the preset 1.33 times before advancing.
Now I understand what you're after. It's still not external thing, but rather should be an internal setting. I don't recall specifically where it is in the Vector, I'm guessing somewhere in the global settings. I believe I have used it before but I might be wrong. Most complex sequencers these days have this feature (I'm speaking from experience mainly with the Elektrons and Cirklon). It involves quite a bit of math when there are multiple different sequence lengths at play (if you want them to all reset at the same time). In the Cirklon this is referred to as the global bar, though you can also define how many of these bars are played before advancing to the next scene. Hope that helps.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by buyingitwontmakeucool » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:18 pm

I agree it could only be internal. I think you’d have to be able to first pick a track and then pick a number or steps on that track to be the reset since tracks can have different time scales per step. The five12 forum takes feature requests.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Zymos » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:53 am

It isn't aware of time signatures per se- you can't tell it to play a pattern (or set it globally) in 3/4 time. You can change clock divisions for a track though - would that help with it not knowing what you'd intended a bar to equal?

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by kesserich » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:37 pm

buyingitwontmakeucool wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:18 pm
I agree it could only be internal. I think you’d have to be able to first pick a track and then pick a number or steps on that track to be the reset since tracks can have different time scales per step. The five12 forum takes feature requests.
LOL So i just tried to register at the five12.net forum and failed the image captcha because it's not displaying any actual image. When i opened up the dev tools, i see "Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 404 (Not Found)"

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Sinamsis » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:51 pm

kesserich wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:37 pm
buyingitwontmakeucool wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:18 pm
I agree it could only be internal. I think you’d have to be able to first pick a track and then pick a number or steps on that track to be the reset since tracks can have different time scales per step. The five12 forum takes feature requests.
LOL So i just tried to register at the five12.net forum and failed the image captcha because it's not displaying any actual image. When i opened up the dev tools, i see "Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 404 (Not Found)"
Oh yeah, that's not new; email them directly and Jim will take care of it. I'll try to look at Vector tonight but not sure if I'll get to it.


FYI if you have expander you could do this (from manual):

External Resets & Triggers
The Reset jack and triggers T1 - T6 on the Jack Expander can be used to reset individual Parts. First, on the ROUTING page in GLOBALS, set the mode for the jack to be EXT. Then, on the Seq Ctl page for the Part, set RESET to EXT (for the Reset jack) or T1 - T6 for jacks on the Expander.

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