FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by modulator_esp » Sun May 10, 2020 2:17 pm

JES wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:54 pm
Page 4 of the v1.4 manual: http://45.56.118.96/VectorUserGuideV1.4.pdf

EDIT: ran it through its paces with two kick drum sounds so I could hear the onsets clearly. It is exactly as described and provides instant Reich. The crossfade ones are simply more dramatic. With some well-placed resets and modulation of rates, it should be amazing for phased melodies or grooves.

Now, I have to figure out how to set this up for polyrhythms.... If anyone's achieved that, please chime in!
I've not got mine to hand to have a go, but I'd try the '1/1 - 16/16 : Fractions of a beat' mode
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by chaosick » Sun May 10, 2020 5:04 pm

JES wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:54 pm
Page 4 of the v1.4 manual: http://45.56.118.96/VectorUserGuideV1.4.pdf

EDIT: ran it through its paces with two kick drum sounds so I could hear the onsets clearly. It is exactly as described and provides instant Reich. The crossfade ones are simply more dramatic. With some well-placed resets and modulation of rates, it should be amazing for phased melodies or grooves.

Now, I have to figure out how to set this up for polyrhythms.... If anyone's achieved that, please chime in!
Is this a similar or equivalent effect as modulating RATE or using one of the sub sequencers to turn on occasionally for the same parameter, or something else? Sort of related notes, getting fantastic results at external mod in with a random source at around 20% for either rate and/or direction, you can end up with very complex and/or glitchy patterns from a single sequence, very fast.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by JES » Mon May 11, 2020 2:26 pm

modulator_esp wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 2:17 pm
JES wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:54 pm
Page 4 of the v1.4 manual: http://45.56.118.96/VectorUserGuideV1.4.pdf

EDIT: ran it through its paces with two kick drum sounds so I could hear the onsets clearly. It is exactly as described and provides instant Reich. The crossfade ones are simply more dramatic. With some well-placed resets and modulation of rates, it should be amazing for phased melodies or grooves.

Now, I have to figure out how to set this up for polyrhythms.... If anyone's achieved that, please chime in!
I've not got mine to hand to have a go, but I'd try the '1/1 - 16/16 : Fractions of a beat' mode
That's it. It worked! I attach a small file for reference. It's not particularly musical, but what you'll hear is a groove in 5 (chord mode on Plaits) with straight pluks in 7 (Rings), and every 8th beat they sync up again. So it's totally workable to do proper polyrhythms. The number next to the divisor appears to be a multiplier, so if you want quarter notes at the bpm divided by 5, I THINK you need to divide by 5 and then set the rate to 5, though I don't know for sure. it's not well documented yet. I am going to experiment the shit out of this, though.

Way to go Jim!
5over7.mp3
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Wubz » Sun May 31, 2020 7:08 pm

Hi Vector owners. I have a weird issue where if I set either of the three midi CC values found on "SEQ CTL-MIDI" page to anything other than off, I get random gates missing from an arpeggio I am sequencing. This could well be user error. Maybe I'm missing a setting somewhere, or maybe it's a bug. Anyone else experienced this/know a fix?

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by stickman » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:07 pm

Wubz wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 7:08 pm
Hi Vector owners. I have a weird issue where if I set either of the three midi CC values found on "SEQ CTL-MIDI" page to anything other than off, I get random gates missing from an arpeggio I am sequencing. This could well be user error. Maybe I'm missing a setting somewhere, or maybe it's a bug. Anyone else experienced this/know a fix?
I use the CCS and defo haven't had that issue.

Does it replicate for a new project, just with the CCS and some gates sequenced?

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by boom blip » Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:41 pm

Anyone have a Vector and a Cirklon? How do they compare? I'm up soon on the Cirklon waitless but weighing the pro's and cons between the two.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by pre55ure » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:08 pm

boom blip wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:41 pm
Anyone have a Vector and a Cirklon? How do they compare? I'm up soon on the Cirklon waitless but weighing the pro's and cons between the two.
I have both. I will do my best to answer any specific questions you have. Though for full disclosure - I'm friends with Jim and helped out at the Vector booth at NAMM. As such I am most likely biased (towards the Vector). Though I truly do just love sequencers.

For me -
Cirklon Pros:

Useful as a midi router/interface
access to 16 steps without changing pages
instrument definitions can be very useful if you have devices that support them
All the flexibility of the Aux stuff.
Polyphonic midi is better (but still bad)

Vector Pros:

Much more immediate
sub sequences
external cv modulation
I prefer the song / scene setup up on the Vector
Generate and evolve of patterns (though I'm still bugging Jim to add features to this)

Overall -
Obviously they are both awesome sequencers designed by people who are at the top of the sequencing game.
I think that you could argue that the Cirklon is "deeper" because of all of the aux events and masking and grabbing from other tracks that you can do etc... But - I have found that (in my case at least) I really almost never use these options. I really like generating patterns that might be new and unique, but I'm not a big fan of stuff that is constantly changing, and I have found it hard to do that on the cirklon. It's great for creating stuff that is continuously evolving, but not as good for shorter, simpler things if that makes sense. Or maybe I just have never taken the time to properly learn to use it? IDK, the lack of documentation makes it a bit difficult.

Vector on the other hand, feels like it strikes the balance just right (to me). It kinda feels like it takes all the good aspects of the cirklon and just distills them down into an easier to use and more accesable ui. All of the cool stuff that I want to use the cirklon for, it seems like 95% of it is accessable on the vector in 1 button press. For example - if I want to transpose my sequence on the cirklon - I scroll to aux d, then click and scroll to the aux assign menu, then click and scroll to intertrack assign, then click and scroll to "xpose by track n". Click it. Then Shift/Gang to select all the steps and then scroll to whatever track has the sequence I want to transpose by. On the vector I just go into subsequence, select transpose, select the time division, and set the notes. It's less flexible, but 95% of the time it's what you want it to do. Thats just one example, but I feel like this is the sort of overall experience I have between the two. cirklon can almost always do just about anything, but the tradeoff is nothing is as immediate. Vector can do almost all of the things the cirklon can and usually in a much more straightforward way. So it feels like the tradeoff is a little bit of flexibility for a big increase in user experience. Imo.

Another thing (for me)
I have gotten a bit frustrated with the lack of updates to the cirklon. There are still OS updates coming out regularly, but between the lack of new machines coming out for a while, then the move to Berlin, and now the announcement of the V2, it feels like it has been a really really long time since some of the more basic user experience stuff has been addressed. There are lots of times I will wonder about something, go on the cirklon forum, find that someone else had a discussion with Colin about the same issue/thought and it was left with a "I'll take a look and see if I can put something in the next update" and then I notice the date is from 2014 or something. Thats not a knock on Colin or Sequentix, I get that they are a small company and it's his right to grow (or not grow) at his own pace.

In the meantime, Jim has pretty much completely created a new module and been updating the OS regularly over that timespan.

This has turned out much longer than I meant for it too.
I like both of them. I waited a loooong time to get a cirklon (as have most people). I think I was probably somewhat underwhelmed by it. Probably not it's fault (I think I heard too much about how it was the greatest sequencer ever) and sequencers are also always very personal, sometimes you click with them, sometimes you don't. I don't plan on selling it. I do like it and still enjoy exploring it, but I actually use my cirklon more as a midi router (of which it is excellent as) than as a sequencer and that always makes me feel a bit sad.

When I just want to actually get stuff done and write music, I prefer to use the Vector. I find it more immediate, more fun, and more musical, and it does *almost* all of the things that I want a sequencer to be able to do.

Hope thats helpful and not too biased.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by boom blip » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:51 pm

Wow thanks so much for the detailed post.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by MikeLeeBirds » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:01 pm

pre55ure wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:08 pm

I have both. I will do my best to answer any specific questions you have. Though for full disclosure - I'm friends with Jim and helped out at the Vector booth at NAMM. As such I am most likely biased (towards the Vector). Though I truly do just love sequencers.

[...]

When I just want to actually get stuff done and write music, I prefer to use the Vector. I find it more immediate, more fun, and more musical, and it does *almost* all of the things that I want a sequencer to be able to do.
Wow, that was really interesting to read!

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by pre55ure » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:16 pm

Glad it was helpful.

Ok one other thing I forgot to mention though.
The cirklon uses Cherry MX keys. Which really, you just can't get better than that. Nothing will ever quite match up tp the perfect clickity clackity button experience of punching in sequences on those. Somewhat impractical for eurorack format though.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Sinamsis » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:46 pm

I've commented a few times now on the Cirklon vs Vector, it seems to come up every few months. I second most of what pre55ure said, focusing mostly on the immediacy of the Vector. There is probably more flexibility in the Cirklon, but it does take a little more work. That said, I can cook through most of that and I feel like once you use it a bit the Cirklon is very fast.

I need to spend a little more time with the Vector's bigger picture (I usually just build a single sequence and mess around with it rather than building a series of sequences with it). The Cirklon, however, IMO has a great song mode. It also has fills, which I don't think the Vector has. And one big plus for the Cirklon to me is the ability to very speficially punch in retrigs with increasing or decreasing velocity or note value, etc to create nice rolls. This is a critical feature for me, and I don't think you can do this with Vector. I feel like the probability features of the Cirklon are a little more fleshed out. Oh and the tracks on the Cirklon can be longer than on the Vector (I don't recall if the Cirklon has a limit, but I don't think I've ever hit it).

So yeah, the summary is Cirklon is ultimately more flexible but more tedious at times, while Vector is more limited in some ways (though still very flexible) and more immediate.

I like having both, and I wouldn't replace one vs the other. The Cirklon is connected to every MIDI device in my studio and I use it routinely. The Vector I very rarely use for MIDI. The Vector for me excels at melodic stuff. I like the Cirklon for drum sequences; I haven't used the drum mode in the Vector honestly. I have the Vector in my "performance system" though I don't perform. I have a Metron next to it. Having both together is an incredibly powerful combination and I like that dedicated combo for that specific system. The Metron is very playable in a different way than the Vector and the two work well together. But still, I like having the Cirklon.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Wubz » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:00 pm

stickman wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:07 pm
Wubz wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 7:08 pm
Hi Vector owners. I have a weird issue where if I set either of the three midi CC values found on "SEQ CTL-MIDI" page to anything other than off, I get random gates missing from an arpeggio I am sequencing. This could well be user error. Maybe I'm missing a setting somewhere, or maybe it's a bug. Anyone else experienced this/know a fix?
I use the CCS and defo haven't had that issue.

Does it replicate for a new project, just with the CCS and some gates sequenced?
I should have been more clear, it happens sending midi out from the HOST port of the vector to my shuttle control module. Doesn't happen when SC is connected to the Device USB port.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by pre55ure » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:16 am

Sinamsis wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:46 pm
The Cirklon, however, IMO has a great song mode. It also has fills, which I don't think the Vector has. And one big plus for the Cirklon to me is the ability to very speficially punch in retrigs with increasing or decreasing velocity or note value, etc to create nice rolls. This is a critical feature for me, and I don't think you can do this with Vector. I feel like the probability features of the Cirklon are a little more fleshed out. Oh and the tracks on the Cirklon can be longer than on the Vector (I don't recall if the Cirklon has a limit, but I don't think I've ever hit it).

The Vector for me excels at melodic stuff. I like the Cirklon for drum sequences; I haven't used the drum mode in the Vector honestly.
This is great info, and I'm happy someone else was able to give a "second opinion" on the differences between the two.
I think my "use case" is not entirely representative of most wigglers so it's good to get another perspective.

I tend to write more Verse / Chorus / Bridge type arrangements rather than traditional electronic music "build up, break down" type structures, so that might be part of the reason that I prefer the Vectors song/scene mode. It feels more ableton inspired, where the Cirklon feels much more like it's built around the idea of muting and unmuting mixer channels to bring stuff in and out. But I'm also not a Cirklon expert here.

Fills are a good point, Vector doesn't have a fill function.

I don't really use either the Vector or the Cirklon for drum sequencing at this point. I have an MPC Live that I use for drum stuff.

Do you end up using CK patterns for drum tracks or do you use the P3 patterns?

I really don't like the CK patterns (cirklons polyphonic/drum pattern type). They are one of the things that goes on my list of things that has been talked about being updated for years but still hasn't been. Of course you don't have to use the CK patterns for drums, It just starts to feel a little sloppy to me to have a bunch of tracks each dedicated to a single drum voice.

To be fair, at this point I don't think that the drum programming on the Vector is great either, but Jim was showing the launchpad functionality at NAMM this year, along with the ability to use different sets of probability features and euclidiean pattern generators with the drum tracks which seemed really cool. Im excited to see how this turns out over the next few months/year.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Sinamsis » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:49 am

pre55ure wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:16 am
Sinamsis wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:46 pm
The Cirklon, however, IMO has a great song mode. It also has fills, which I don't think the Vector has. And one big plus for the Cirklon to me is the ability to very speficially punch in retrigs with increasing or decreasing velocity or note value, etc to create nice rolls. This is a critical feature for me, and I don't think you can do this with Vector. I feel like the probability features of the Cirklon are a little more fleshed out. Oh and the tracks on the Cirklon can be longer than on the Vector (I don't recall if the Cirklon has a limit, but I don't think I've ever hit it).

The Vector for me excels at melodic stuff. I like the Cirklon for drum sequences; I haven't used the drum mode in the Vector honestly.
This is great info, and I'm happy someone else was able to give a "second opinion" on the differences between the two.
I think my "use case" is not entirely representative of most wigglers so it's good to get another perspective.

I tend to write more Verse / Chorus / Bridge type arrangements rather than traditional electronic music "build up, break down" type structures, so that might be part of the reason that I prefer the Vectors song/scene mode. It feels more ableton inspired, where the Cirklon feels much more like it's built around the idea of muting and unmuting mixer channels to bring stuff in and out. But I'm also not a Cirklon expert here.

Fills are a good point, Vector doesn't have a fill function.

I don't really use either the Vector or the Cirklon for drum sequencing at this point. I have an MPC Live that I use for drum stuff.

Do you end up using CK patterns for drum tracks or do you use the P3 patterns?

I really don't like the CK patterns (cirklons polyphonic/drum pattern type). They are one of the things that goes on my list of things that has been talked about being updated for years but still hasn't been. Of course you don't have to use the CK patterns for drums, It just starts to feel a little sloppy to me to have a bunch of tracks each dedicated to a single drum voice.

To be fair, at this point I don't think that the drum programming on the Vector is great either, but Jim was showing the launchpad functionality at NAMM this year, along with the ability to use different sets of probability features and euclidiean pattern generators with the drum tracks which seemed really cool. Im excited to see how this turns out over the next few months/year.

Wow I need to learn how to use song mode on Vector then haha. But you can pretty easily build songs up on the Cirklon without just muting unmuting tracks (but I do that a ton as well and that’s why I use p3 patterns for everything but chords). I like that with the Cirklon you can take a pattern, change it slightly and then save it as a different pattern, and then save the whole thing as a different scene. It does allow for the traditional song structure, and to me it can take form very quickly.

For me, having a track per drum sound is ideal. You have to be organized and it helps to try to be consistent with where you place each instrument (I’m not great about that), but it allows you to quickly drop individual drum hits, mute/unmute, shift individual drum parts against the others, polymeters and rhythms. It’s just the XOX style which I’ve grown to love. I do miss using an MPC though and I’ve considered getting a pad controller to use with the Cirklon, or just getting an MPC.

The CK patterns take a bit to get used to but I feel like I’m reasonably efficient with those. I think given the UI it’s hard to do a lot more. MPC is a little easier and a DAW is king for that.

Here’s a clip we shot before the world ended. I had just been messing around with the Cirklon and had something half put together and Adam stopped by for another reason. We ended up shooting the jam. Adam failed to tell me the tag was sticking out on my t shirt haha. There may be a little Vector in here as well but I think it’s 100% Cirklon.


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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by MikeLeeBirds » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:37 am

I like to use the drum mode on Vector, limited as it may be right now.
You could choose to use four single parts to control individual drums and that will give you LOTS of flexibility.
Maybe the upcoming Launchpad integration will be a gamechanger for drums through Vector. I certainly hope so and it’s why I‘m hanging on to my Launchpad.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by BlackDoors » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:20 am

I’ve got both Cirklon and Vector, I’d echo many of the points. Discounting size and availability, they both get used by me regularly and I do love both, including together. Obviously there are hardware and port and routing differences, Cirklon has up to 64 tracks versus 8 for vector, but I’ll give a personal run down of the advantages and disadvantages in my use.

For me, Cirklon has the advantages of fills, and better drum handling. Largely because it has 16 steps in pattern edit view and 16 tracks of mutes are available at once while playing. Cirklon drum handling isn’t perfect - worth saying I prefer analog rhythm mk2 to both for drum sequencing. But they all do nice ratchets, and have all the control over velocity etc that I need.

Both do great random. Vector has far better accessibility to its random functions and pattern modulation, as well as superb patten generation capabilities. Cirklon is maybe deeper but it's harder to set up and program random functions. On Vector, it’s easy to set up internal modulation from the sub-sequencers and to make sequences to respond to external modulation. One thing that surprised me about Cirklon is that it’s actually not all that handy at being modulated or controlled from outside. Cirklon is instead really cool and immensely powerful at letting tracks modulate and affect each other, but this takes time and knowledge to set up.

I think either are fine for songs as well as dance music and more abstract structures. Cirklon has very jammable fills and mutes but its scene view only switches complete scenes, whereas in Vector you can edit/change the playing scene by selecting and cue individual patterns on 8 different parts from the one page (so you can manually trigger a fill if you are quick). Vector’s scene view is therefore (for me) a little more performable than Cirklon’s. Roll on launchpad integration with the Vector which will hopefully expand the capabilities even further. Cirklon’s song mode can feel rather linear by comparison, to swap out one pattern for another you have to edit the relevant track within a scene - but you have 16 mutes and 16 scenes selectable at your fingertips as well as fills which allow you to do a lot.

Interestingly, I would reach for Cirklon for structured verse/chorus type stuff if honest, projects where I know what I want and I want it to play through in order very dependably. It is immensely fast to work and build scenes once you know the main features. Both have unique (but different) advantages for performing during playback. But I don’t think you can go wrong with either. Finally, it’s worth saying that since I got Vector, I sold my other eurorack sequencers. It does the job for me!

John
Last edited by BlackDoors on Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by mdoudoroff » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:34 am

I have neither sequencer (yet), but I love reading all this thoughtful perspective. I hope that Jim at Five12 is seeing all this one way or another. I note that the topic of fills keeps coming up, as does the sixteen steps vs eight steps. The former might be easily added with a software update, assuming there’s a reasonable place to add it to the UI—I would think it’s something you’d want fairly high up, not buried. The latter would require a significantly larger, more expensive model, but as the original Vector matures, introducing one might even start to make sense. (I’m interested.)

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Sinamsis » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:01 pm

mdoudoroff wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:34 am
I have neither sequencer (yet), but I love reading all this thoughtful perspective. I hope that Jim at Five12 is seeing all this one way or another. I note that the topic of fills keeps coming up, as does the sixteen steps vs eight steps. The former might be easily added with a software update, assuming there’s a reasonable place to add it to the UI—I would think it’s something you’d want fairly high up, not buried. The latter would require a significantly larger, more expensive model, but as the original Vector matures, introducing one might even start to make sense. (I’m interested.)
I meant to comment on this before, but forgot. One important thing to distinguish here is the concept of a step in the Vector vs the Cirklon are different (although perhaps this can be accomplished in the Cirklon on a deeper level, it never really occurred to me). A step on the Vector will have a defined length, but this length can vary between steps of a sequence. The Cirklon, at least at the most superficial level, defines step length at the sequence level, so you can have steps of different lengths. You can assign gate length, and it can overlap other steps, but you can’t quickly punch in a quarter note followed by two eights and then a whole note for instance. You can also modulate note length easily in the Vector IIRC. This gets me out of the usual grooves I come up with, and can quickly create “different” and some times surprising results. Add in modulation of the direction of the sequence, etc, you can do some really cool stuff.

Otherwise I don’t feel limited by seeing 8 steps at a time, maybe it’s me. It would be cool if you could somehow daisy chain two units so they function as one bigger unit with more tracks and more outputs. BTW when I first got this module I really thought about selling my Cirklon and buying another one or two Vectors. In the end I concluded that both had strengths and having to different approaches was better than one. I did get rid of other sequencers like the ER-101 and Stillson Hammer Mk II (both amazing in their own rights, but enough’s enough haha). Like I said before I do find the Metron adds a lot next to these two powerful sequencers (I was skeptical at first). Ha and I just got a Ryk-185 to build, but that was also from DIY excitement haha.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Zymos » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:12 pm

I’m OK with 8 at a time too. 16 would be great, but to keep the interface, this would be a wiiiide module. And I think one of Vector’s strengths is the way you can reach so many parameters in a fairly shallow way.
There will always be trade-offs between accessibility and functions, always compromises. For me, Vector hits the sweet spot- sometimes it takes a couple of extra clicks to get there, but it’s worth it.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by AbundantChoice » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:30 pm

mdoudoroff wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:34 am
I have neither sequencer (yet), but I love reading all this thoughtful perspective. I hope that Jim at Five12 is seeing all this one way or another. I note that the topic of fills keeps coming up, as does the sixteen steps vs eight steps. The former might be easily added with a software update, assuming there’s a reasonable place to add it to the UI—I would think it’s something you’d want fairly high up, not buried. The latter would require a significantly larger, more expensive model, but as the original Vector matures, introducing one might even start to make sense.
I think if you really need all 16 steps visible and are willing to get ~ 80% of the functionality of the Vector, the Frap USTA might be the way to go. I'd really, *really* miss Vector's sub-sequencers, though. I had no clue how useful they were going to be until I started using them, now I cannot imagine trying to sequence without them now.

I originally thought the 8-steps-visible-at-a-time thing was going to be pretty limiting, but i've found in general with the variable step lengths most of my sequences (other than the main melody) generally aren't more than 8 steps long anyway once you factor in rests, half-notes, whole notes etc etc etc. Especially with using transposition on one of the subsequencers, or some well placed chance ops, 8 steps can be a ton. The melody line is generally longer, sure, but I can handle "flipping to the back 8" on one or two tracks out of 8. I also found myself needing all 16 steps less when I got more comfortable with scenes and sequencing between systems of them.

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windchill
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by windchill » Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:54 am

I chose the Vector instead of the USTA for various reasons, though it was a close call.
I also don't find the fact that only 8 steps are visible an issue at all.
What is an issue, and given the pace of updates probably a temporary one, is that there is no follow option. When steps 9-16 are playing the display still shows steps 1-8. You have to manually switch.

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mdoudoroff
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by mdoudoroff » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:21 am

I very much respect the work that went into USTA, but it’s probably not a sequencer for me (like windchill, for various reasons). (I do like my Frap Tools Sapél, just fine.)

Vector is the only fancy (Eurorack module) sequencer I would consider for myself at this time. I currently use a Koma Komplex, which is itself inspired by Numerology, although realized in a very different fashion.

I would think most of the demand for a 16 step Vector (perhaps a direct-patch tabletop device rather than a module) would come not from melodic sequencing side, but from drum sequencing side, if that aspect of Vector was to mature and grow popular. The difference between 8 and 16 for drum pattern programming is pretty huge. However, I haven’t yet seen how the Vector/Numerology architecture really pays off for percussion sequencing, anyway. Is there anything Vector can do with percussion sequencing that would excite a Metron owner like me?

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by jmax313 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:30 am

Im just curious... does anyone here use this a lot for midi sequencing? I'm curious if this could be a brain of a setup outside of modular.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by kesserich » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:45 am

mdoudoroff wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:21 am
I very much respect the work that went into USTA, but it’s probably not a sequencer for me (like windchill, for various reasons). (I do like my Frap Tools Sapél, just fine.)

Vector is the only fancy (Eurorack module) sequencer I would consider for myself at this time. I currently use a Koma Komplex, which is itself inspired by Numerology, although realized in a very different fashion.

I would think most of the demand for a 16 step Vector (perhaps a direct-patch tabletop device rather than a module) would come not from melodic sequencing side, but from drum sequencing side, if that aspect of Vector was to mature and grow popular. The difference between 8 and 16 for drum pattern programming is pretty huge. However, I haven’t yet seen how the Vector/Numerology architecture really pays off for percussion sequencing, anyway. Is there anything Vector can do with percussion sequencing that would excite a Metron owner like me?
I program a lot of drums in vector and it works quite well. Like many people here, the 8 step visibility proved to be much less of issue than I thought it would be and I think this is because:

vector is not really designed to be a standard X0X sequencer. In traditional X0X, you don't have chance-ops, you don't have sub-sequencers, hell you don't even have have variable step lengths. What you get is just a giant grid and you write drums by turning on and off different points in the grid. You *can* do this on the vector but it's pretty clearly trying to steer you down another path.

It's clearly an attempt to evolve how we sequence things more than just another attempt at perfecting the familia X0X interface. I also do a lot of generative algo stuff in Max and to me the Vector kinda sits inbetween that and traditional sequencing.

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robotfunk
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by robotfunk » Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:18 am

jmax313 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:30 am
Im just curious... does anyone here use this a lot for midi sequencing? I'm curious if this could be a brain of a setup outside of modular.
I've made tunes from the Vector without using any modular stuff, just external MIDI synths. I would say I have used my rack synths and my Blofeld more then ever before getting the Vector. Combining them with modular though :goo:

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