FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

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Dark Barn
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Dark Barn » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:08 pm

A few people have made the request to have the Vector UI follow the play head, and I don’t know if I’d like that, i worry it could cause trouble when editing to have the UI take you off the ‘page’ that you are currently editing. It doesn’t take much to quickly flip through pages as it currently stands.
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by mdoudoroff » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:04 pm

kesserich wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:45 am
vector is not really designed to be a standard X0X sequencer. … You *can* do this on the vector but it's pretty clearly trying to steer you down another path.
Ok, but how does this path (these techniques) pay off for percussion sequencing? I don’t have much to go by other than Loopop’s fleeting demo of the drum mode, and it looked rudimentary and limited. What did he fail to demonstrate?

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by yrn1 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:48 pm

robotfunk wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:18 am
I would say I have used my rack synths and my Blofeld more then ever before getting the Vector. Combining them with modular though :goo:
I have exactly the same! My old MIDI stuff is getting a whole new life. Proteus 2000 loves Vector :spin:

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by jmax313 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:18 pm

yrn1 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:48 pm

I have exactly the same! My old MIDI stuff is getting a whole new life. Proteus 2000 loves Vector :spin:
robotfunk wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:18 am
I've made tunes from the Vector without using any modular stuff, just external MIDI synths. I would say I have used my rack synths and my Blofeld more then ever before getting the Vector. Combining them with modular though :goo:
How come you are using them more? What were you using to control the synths prior to receiving the vector?

I use an octatrack now, and it's awesome for how quick it is plus it's pretty intuitive. Still, I find it's got a pretty standard set of feature compared to what I have seem with some of the technology that is out there in the realm of sequencing. It's not a bad thing, just kinda want to see what else there is that I could use for sequencing my hardware synths for different ideas/inspiration.

Because of the midi functionality, I'm kinda considering getting it just for sequencing outside eurorack since I don't own anymore euro :despair:

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by JES » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:23 pm

I have an OT. They are both great sequencers but pretty different. They both have probability, but are very different in how they implement it, no P locks on the Vector, no sub sequencers on the OT(you can sort of do it with LFOs I suppose), no varying step or sequence length in real time on the OT, no phase or polyrhythm option on the OT. OT is obviously also a sampler; Vector has CV outs.you can see 16 steps at a time on the OT; Vector screen is more readable.

This makes them sound more similar than they are. They feel totally different to me, despite both having step sequencing.
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by robotfunk » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:40 pm

jmax313 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:18 pm
How come you are using them more? What were you using to control the synths prior to receiving the vector?
I guess the process is more fun for me. Before I was either struggling to integrate a DAW with the modular and MIDI synths or using a hard disk/MIDI recorder instead of a DAW and struggling to get stuff into a DAW later. Before getting the Vector I got some CV/Trigger/Gate to MIDI modules to drive those with a modular sequencer and that was already a big improvement. The Vector is the nicest modular sequencer I've tried and it has superb MIDI integration so it just makes the workflow work for me.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by yrn1 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:49 pm

Definitely the fun aspect for me too. I’m fully dawless and got to the point that I wasn’t using anything but my eurorack anymore. Just because I really feel good that way. Now with the Vector, I get to use my MIDI gear with the same funfactor. But I guess this is all very personal...

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by jmax313 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:06 pm

JES wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:23 pm
I have an OT. They are both great sequencers but pretty different. They both have probability, but are very different in how they implement it, no P locks on the Vector, no sub sequencers on the OT(you can sort of do it with LFOs I suppose), no varying step or sequence length in real time on the OT, no phase or polyrhythm option on the OT. OT is obviously also a sampler; Vector has CV outs.you can see 16 steps at a time on the OT; Vector screen is more readable.

This makes them sound more similar than they are. They feel totally different to me, despite both having step sequencing.
Right. OT is such an insanely capable machine, I mean I love mine and it's my set-ups brain for sequencing and clocking. I have it setup for also playing back samples off my CF, but knowing it's limitations the Five12 is lookin pretty capable for filling that void.. I haven't done extensive research on the Five12 yet, guess I have some homework to do. Thanks for the comparison!
yrn1 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:49 pm
Definitely the fun aspect for me too. I’m fully dawless and got to the point that I wasn’t using anything but my eurorack anymore. Just because I really feel good that way. Now with the Vector, I get to use my MIDI gear with the same funfactor. But I guess this is all very personal...
robotfunk wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:40 pm
I guess the process is more fun for me. Before I was either struggling to integrate a DAW with the modular and MIDI synths or using a hard disk/MIDI recorder instead of a DAW and struggling to get stuff into a DAW later. Before getting the Vector I got some CV/Trigger/Gate to MIDI modules to drive those with a modular sequencer and that was already a big improvement. The Vector is the nicest modular sequencer I've tried and it has superb MIDI integration so it just makes the workflow work for me.
Thanks fellas, I appreciate both of your feedback! really interesting that you both have found new love for previously neglected synths hehe. The workflow during songwriting is key for me. My DAW is great for getting things arranged and automating parameters that the Octatrack is not very well suited for doing & I feel more efficient and better suited to make music this way. It is definitely personal and we all are going to have different approaches, so maybe I will ultimately purchase this sometime in the future, can't say I would have ever thought to purchase a modular sequencer strictly for hardware usage... :hihi:

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by gummyboy » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:24 am

I only can outputs sync(midi clock) via midi.
In order to output sync via usb a, do I need to set up something else besides set "USB A" on under "Global" page.
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by aintnopicnic » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:47 am

Dark Barn wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:08 pm
A few people have made the request to have the Vector UI follow the play head, and I don’t know if I’d like that, i worry it could cause trouble when editing to have the UI take you off the ‘page’ that you are currently editing. It doesn’t take much to quickly flip through pages as it currently stands.
The feature request is to have an "auto follow page" as an OPTION and therefore not general behaviour.
When I have a sequence longer than 8 steps going, which is standard for me, I want to see
whats going on in the rest of my sequence.
I don't want to hit the prev/next buttons all the time.

In addition at the moment the behaviour is, if i stop a sequence outside the 8-bar range (first page)
I can't even "search" for the step I want to change, because the playhead simply dissapears.
This is just wrong.

The right implemantation of this feature would be as an OPTION, as I mentioned before .
And also the option to display and LOOP the page i want to work on.

At the moment it's just not right.
Most of the Vector users are happy with noodling around with a 8-step-sequence, I guess.
Unconscious they limit theirselves to this, because the currently functionality doesn't allow a
painless experience to manage 16-64 steps long sequences.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by modulator_esp » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:53 am

jmax313 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:30 am
Im just curious... does anyone here use this a lot for midi sequencing? I'm curious if this could be a brain of a setup outside of modular.
I'm using mine with an Ambika or a Nova desktop for a pretty minimal sequencing setup
I just like weird music and adventures in sound - gear for sale

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Zymos » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:07 am

I kind of missed the following behavior at first (I came from Audio Damage Sequencer 1, which had that option) but don’t even think about it anymore. Except when it comes up in discussion.
It would be good to have the option, but I don’t really think the omission is that much of a drawback, and I don’t think I would even use it that much. A way to quickly loop an 8 bar section would be great though.

I almost exclusively use 16 step sequences, sometimes 32. With the amount of editing I often do at the step level, an extra click or 2 of the prev/next buttons is insignificant.

The condescension towards the noodling unconsciously limiting users who are apparently too clueless to realize how much the NEED this feature isn’t all that helpful or accurate though....

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Dark Barn » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:06 am

I don’t find managing steps 9-64 painful as it currently stands, it’s one button press to move to the next or previous page, and like I said if I’m making edits to a step and the playhead auto advances me to the next page that would be maddening to me.

I don’t mind it as an option of course, but I would never use it for editing, but i would use it to survey a track once in a while.
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by aintnopicnic » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:33 am

Dark Barn wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:06 am
I don’t find managing steps 9-64 painful as it currently stands
If I have a 32-step sequence going and assume I'm on page 1 (steps 1-8)
the (invisible) playhead is on step 23 and I now stop the sequencer,
the last location of the playhead isn't lit.
I can push prev/next all day, won't find it that way.
The only way is to restart the sequencer, step through the pages and
wait till the playhead comes around.
That's painful and not very elegant to me.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Dark Barn » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:41 am

I make edits while the sequence is looping, so I don’t have this issue, if you turn off the auto reset function in the control menu (or set it to something besides ‘auto’) you’ll find the playhead will pause when the sequence stops also FYI.
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by mdoudoroff » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:49 am

Just for giggles, I did a fugly test mockup (that may disregard many realities):
wide-vector.jpg
Click through for a larger version.

If you extended the width to 84hp, you’d have space for the four MIDI DIN connectors. Or those could go in a passive breakout. 84hp is a wide module, but it is not the only 84hp module out there. 77hp is shorter than Neutron. If anything like this ever made business sense, I’d vote for making it a direct-patch tabletop box—might as well go 19" and make it rack mountable like the Cirklon.
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by aintnopicnic » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:24 am

Dark Barn wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:41 am
if you turn off the auto reset function in the control menu (or set it to something besides ‘auto’) you’ll find the playhead will pause when the sequence stops also FYI.
Nope, the reset function in global has nothing to do with displaying the position of the playhead or not.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Dark Barn » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 am

aintnopicnic wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:24 am
Dark Barn wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:41 am
if you turn off the auto reset function in the control menu (or set it to something besides ‘auto’) you’ll find the playhead will pause when the sequence stops also FYI.
Nope, the reset function in global has nothing to do with displaying the position of the playhead or not.
In the part control menu.
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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by aintnopicnic » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:16 pm

Really nice, that you wanna help me out on this.
But the problem with Vector is, the last step is only displayed LED-wise,
if that page is selected when the sequenced is stopped.
If it happens "in the dark" and you have to do prev/next, it will not be visible.
Has nothing to do with the Reset option in Global/Control/Parts.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by Zymos » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:40 pm

I understand what you are saying, but I think most people don’t work that way (not that you shouldn’t be able to, but it just isn’t an issue for everyone else).
It makes more sense to me to want to hear your edits and be able to tweak them as the sequencer is running. I just can’t imagine stopping the sequencer because I want to edit the step it’s on at that moment, going to that step, editing, restarting the transport, etc. I’m going to work on 8 steps at a time, move the next 8, and so on, and if I refine from there then I already have to prev/next to go to a certain step to edit it further.

Having the display follow the sequence is brings up some complicated interface issues with regard to editing. If you hear a note on one step that seems to not fit your melody, by the time you push the pitch button and reach for an encoder to adjust the pitch, the display may have already moved to the next 8 steps, then you still need to wait for it to repeat back to the 8 step group that has the one you want to fix. If you’re editing step 2 with knob 2, and the sequencer is still running, when does it stop showing step 2’s parameters and go back to displaying whichever step of the sequence it’s actually on?

Options are always good, but there’s a lot more to this than just a switch to turn follow on and off. I do think it would be super handy for working with longer patterns to have a button combo that quickly jumps to a given 8 bar section and loops it- like keep pressing Shift+Next or Shift+Prev to select the section. If Next would wrap around to the first (already a feature request) than that’s a maximum of 3 clicks to get to any group of 8.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by AbundantChoice » Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:12 pm

So I've been mostly sequencing drums using a combo of Ableton & Euclidean Circles, and just using the Drum Part thing in Vector for basic rhythms when messing around (saving most of Vector for more melodic and VCO control). So, dumb Q: is there a way to ratchet just -one- of the four drum "lanes" on a Drum Part? Currently i've been kludging it by having, say, the kick, snare, and clap on the Drum Part, and then using another Part entirely for the hats that need to ratchet, but jumping back and forth is a bit of hassle. My guess is "no", but I maybe I missed something and you all know something I don't.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by mvdirty » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:47 am

mdoudoroff wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:49 am
If anything like this ever made business sense, I’d vote for making it a direct-patch tabletop box—might as well go 19" and make it rack mountable like the Cirklon.
My vote would be for 84 HP with an optional (hopefully both inexpensive and shallow) skiff not unlike the current Vector is getting. (Though, to be completely honest, the Vector skiff pricing mentioned earlier this year is honestly anything but inexpensive and didn’t really seem all that shallow.)
Last edited by mvdirty on Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by mvdirty » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:53 am

As for the topic of screen following play head, I’m not a Vector user at this time but from other experiences I’m in alignment with the majority of folks here. That said, perhaps there’s a good (and likely relatively easy) feature request lurking in all of this, one that everyone might appreciate. Maybe aintnopicnic can help clarify:

Is it perhaps the case that the current step is not well-enough indicated, as a more general issue? As in, is the UI not doing enough to tell you in which direction to switch pages to get to it? Is the UI not doing enough to tell you which step is the current one once you’re viewing its page? (To be clear, UI in this sense could be either screen and/or LEDs.)

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by chaosick » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:06 pm

aintnopicnic wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:47 am
Dark Barn wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:08 pm
A few people have made the request to have the Vector UI follow the play head, and I don’t know if I’d like that, i worry it could cause trouble when editing to have the UI take you off the ‘page’ that you are currently editing. It doesn’t take much to quickly flip through pages as it currently stands.
The feature request is to have an "auto follow page" as an OPTION and therefore not general behaviour.
When I have a sequence longer than 8 steps going, which is standard for me, I want to see
whats going on in the rest of my sequence.
I don't want to hit the prev/next buttons all the time.

In addition at the moment the behaviour is, if i stop a sequence outside the 8-bar range (first page)
I can't even "search" for the step I want to change, because the playhead simply dissapears.
This is just wrong.

The right implemantation of this feature would be as an OPTION, as I mentioned before .
And also the option to display and LOOP the page i want to work on.

At the moment it's just not right.
Most of the Vector users are happy with noodling around with a 8-step-sequence, I guess.
Unconscious they limit theirselves to this, because the currently functionality doesn't allow a
painless experience to manage 16-64 steps long sequences.
I would also like this feature!

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Re: FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer Teaser

Post by buyingitwontmakeucool » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:29 pm

I think it would be cool to be able to toggle Chase by hitting prev and next buttons together. But if I had to go into a menu to change to Chase mode I (personally) would never use it bc editing would be a nightmare

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