Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

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lazze
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by lazze » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:55 am

thanx !
sdcard was to big... i used a maller one and no everything worked fine.

Luap
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by Luap » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:58 am

rayultine wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:11 pm
lol poor Righty trying to hammer anything that looks like a nail
And clearly missed out on the joyful GUI that the MK3 Disting was blessed with then :hihi:

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deke
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by deke » Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:10 pm

Righty wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:50 pm
Yes, it can do everything, but can the guy hire someone who has skills in writing clearly and another person to check him on his internal consistency on how this thing functions? It is a usability nightmare. He simply has no skills in anything to do with a user interface or manual writing. Again, yes, yes it can do everything, but that does not mean it inherently has to be this bad. It violates myriad usability and human factors principles. it is clearly the product of someone who has zero competency in usability and human factors. It doesn't have to be a clusterf%&k to use. Steve Jobs would have a stroke if he used a Disting. If Steve Jobs was running this company he would blow out his vocal chords screaming about the disting's user interface.
May I attempt to add something informative here? I have an advanced degree in this field, so excuse any pedantry.

One way to think about user interfaces is by applying a simple economics perspective. Costs vs benefits. Costs can be ergonomic (clicks, menu diving…), but can also be thought of as cognitive in terms of memory and cognitive load. Really bad interfaces impose costs with few benefits. Think software from 1997. Disting has very high user costs, both cognitive and ergonomics, but this is offset by its benefits – it can function as 100 or whatever different modules AND in the space of 4hp AND at a cost of $169!

Another concept about user interfaces is a term known as affordance – the ability of some interface to communicate its function. Some complex modules, like Maths, have high initial costs for learning, but at the same time have some affordance allowing a user to experiment and discover some functionality. Disting has almost no affordance and is therefore almost impossible to experiment with - without using the manual. Again, this is a cost offset by a benefit.

There may some issues with Disting that could be improved with better design, consistency, and the manual, but it sill still impose high costs and offer little affordance. I think it helps to simply accept Disting’s cost vs benefit equation and resign yourself to using the manual and other cheat sheets to use it. If that is too much, then go ahead and buy about 100 well designed single purpose modules, then sell the ones you don't like or want. How much would that "cost"?

This is really off the wall, but have you ever played a tank video game where you can pick a tank – they always offer a trade off in selecting firepower, armor, speed, size, weight… If you increase one attribute, others are decreased. There is no tank that can give you everything. I think the same goes with any Eurorack module and especially a module like Disting. It is on the far end of the curve and is extreme in functionality.

FYI, in my opinion Jobs primary talent was in screaming at people to make something better without having a clue himself on how to achieve it. Sadly too many people think they can be geniuses in technology by being a jerk alone.

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acidbob
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by acidbob » Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:17 pm

There are cheat sheets available and I find them super useful. Disting is complicated to use because it can do so much.
That is also something to think about when people keep asking for more features constantly.

tdallas
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by tdallas » Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:41 pm

If one need a very good and informative sheet for this Disting the following one is the way to go:

-> All praise to bobborries!

You may still need the official manual for more details but to my knowledge this is the best summary out there!

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rayultine
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by rayultine » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:15 pm

I hope mods will come in and douse this convo with cold water (even though I was first to feed the troll). Complaints about UIs should stay in complaint threads. Module threads should stick to discussion about features and usage tips/requests.

If you leave the disting mk4 on a single algorithm and ignore additional parameters for its entire lifetime, you have a module with two knobs, three input jacks, and two output jacks. The function of those knobs and jacks can be easily memorized.

lyesmel
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by lyesmel » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:40 pm

Disking MK4 was one of my first modules, and I only got into this 4 months ago.
For a total newbie I cracked it in no time at all and it took very little effort to find the extra resources you may need online.

Modular is a small community and most of us show great apreciation to the people dedicated to deliverying amazing products.
The are not mass produced items with global teams involved -try to show a little more appreciation and not have such an entitled attitude.

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deke
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by deke » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:04 pm

rayultine wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:15 pm
I hope mods will come in and douse this convo with cold water (even though I was first to feed the troll). Complaints about UIs should stay in complaint threads. Module threads should stick to discussion about features and usage tips/requests.

If you leave the disting mk4 on a single algorithm and ignore additional parameters for its entire lifetime, you have a module with two knobs, three input jacks, and two output jacks. The function of those knobs and jacks can be easily memorized.
I thought I was adding something positive here. I am not criticizing anything and instead tried to counter the troll with an informed assessment. Still it is impressive how you now want to be mature and bring in the playground supervisors to help.

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rayultine
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by rayultine » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:28 pm

I'm more razzing Righty than dogging anyone who tried to add to the conversation.

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os
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by os » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:00 am

OK consider that conversation shut down. (@deke pretty sure @rayultine wasn't having a pop at you.)

I appreciate the support of those who posted to defend the disting.

FWIW the post above was nothing compared to the one the guy left on YouTube which began "I truly hate you" and went downhill from there.

Moving forward, you may be wondering about the lack of updates to the mk4 recently. You should see some new stuff soon!

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rayultine
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by rayultine » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:56 am

Thanks as always, os! I assume the development lifetime of the mk4 has to end one of these years, but if not early 2021, hooray!

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maudibe
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by maudibe » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:50 am

Grief - just caught up with this thread.

For the record, I think the manuals are very comprehensive accross the entire Disting family tree, and the videos are super easy to watch and absorb. I have mk2's and am awaiting EX's. :hail: I do tend to find my favourite modes and stick there, but it is great to know that extra functionality is there. OS, keep it up - brilliant products and superb quality. If you made Swiss Army Knives I know they would be gold plated.

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os
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by os » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:30 am

Thought this was worth sharing:


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JuliusRe
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by JuliusRe » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:14 am

os wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:30 am
Thought this was worth sharing:

Nice one - actually got some new ideas from it :party:
FS/FT (EU): Bastl Instruments Waver (220€) :guinness:

markincork
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by markincork » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:18 am

os wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:30 am
Thought this was worth sharing:

F6 is such a creative and inspiring mode. Spent about two hours last night generating really usable patterns. Thanks!

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bemushroomed
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by bemushroomed » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:21 pm

Righty wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:50 pm
It is a usability nightmare.
In comparison to which other similar digital modules? I bet you would not like Ornament and Crime either. But no it isn't. You just have to sit down with it more, once you have memorized how it works it's actually extremely easy, and most of all, extremely fast to work with.

Os is also constantly improving the user interface, this is not the latest Disting. Mk3 i did criticize, i wanted a simplistic screen, even if it could just show numbers it would be a big improvement i said, guess what, in the next version there was a screen and it was better than what i had suggested. Disting EX is further improved.

These are super tiny electronic devices, there's only so much you can do. Digital modules in Eurorack is definitely not for everyone but they do not really have a higher learning curve than e.g a complex VCO.

Also instead of saying something sucks, make suggestions of how it should be improved, this is not Apple or Roland, what you write here will be read by the person who makes the actual module, which is fantastic, he does listen to the users but your post is useless information for him.

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sir stony
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by sir stony » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:03 pm

I wonder: did the mk4 come with an SD card, and was that card preloaded with stuff like with the disting EX? If so, I must have killed that original content incidentally, at least I can't find any backup of it on my pc. But I can't really remember if there was a card included at all... :hmm: :help:

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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by markincork » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:16 pm

sir stony wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:03 pm
I wonder: did the mk4 come with an SD card, and was that card preloaded with stuff like with the disting EX? If so, I must have killed that original content incidentally, at least I can't find any backup of it on my pc. But I can't really remember if there was a card included at all... :hmm: :help:
I bought mine about two years back and as far as far as I can remember there was advice on the best card to use which involved buying it separately? I just checked the site and there are firmware downloads but no samples. I think the EX ones were unique to that module.

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os
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by os » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:26 pm

The mk4 does not (and has never) come with an SD card.

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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by jonnyjupiter » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:33 pm

sir stony wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:03 pm
I wonder: did the mk4 come with an SD card, and was that card preloaded with stuff like with the disting EX? If so, I must have killed that original content incidentally, at least I can't find any backup of it on my pc. But I can't really remember if there was a card included at all... :hmm: :help:
I didn't get any SD cards with my Disting Mk4s. You didn't kill anything.

As for the previous conversation about the GUI, manual etc.:
When I wanted to use SD cards I followed the advice in the manual, bought SD cards, formatted them, put stuff on them in the way the manual said and they worked. The bits I got wrong didn't work, so I looked at the manual again and realised I had been stupid.
When I got stuck I clicked on the YouTube video links and became unstuck.
When I got stupid again about other functions and couldn't figure out why, I asked for help and got help. It wasn't the manual or the module - it was me that got it wrong.
It's a complex module with mega-functionality and great support. What was the guy getting at? What does he want from life? If you get into modular you have to expect a bit of a learning curve.

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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by jonnyjupiter » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:33 pm

Oops. Posts crossed.

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sir stony
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by sir stony » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:42 pm

Thank you all! It felt bad to doubt both, the own way of working and the memory, too. :bang:

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LongLostDonut
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by LongLostDonut » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:07 pm

acidbob wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:17 pm
There are cheat sheets available and I find them super useful. Disting is complicated to use because it can do so much.
That is also something to think about when people keep asking for more features constantly.
Speaking of which, I made my own uber-simple cheat sheet as a Google Doc over the Xmas holidays - don't know if anyone else has done this yet... I found the biggest barrier to using the Disting more was not having a simple view of all input/outputs, so made something that can be printed on a double sided sheet of A4 to act as a quick reference.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

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funeralcake
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by funeralcake » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:36 pm

This reminds me that I need to make a sheet of my most-used parameters on the disting, because I do hate having to pull up PDF manuals.

I have hand-written parameter/function/preset/programming step lists for a few things (Alesis Akira, Ensoniq Mirage, several PSS-480 patches written into an Excel spreadsheet and on various bits of paper, FX chains/knob settings, etc.), and they're always either taped up somewhere or within arm's reach.

The idea that this is even foreign to some people makes me think they're just not very motivated to learn. No one is forcing anyone to use a Disting if they think it "goes against" something intrinsic to modular synthesis due to a misguided sense of anachronistic "purity" WRT to function and architecture. The modular method is merely a means to an end, not a lifestyle choice. I guarantee that, if they had the technology 50-60+ years ago, they would have used it to make complex digital/menu-driven modules!
useless

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os
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Re: Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4

Post by os » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:45 am

Just dropped firmware v4.18.

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