WMD MSCL stereo compressor

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DDJ
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Post by DDJ » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:42 pm

No.

I’ve thought about it a few times though.

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spilthyfred
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Post by spilthyfred » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:54 am

DDJ wrote:No.

I’ve thought about it a few times though.
I've yet to get one. But if it sounds as good as everyone says, seems like a no brainer to have a couple - maybe even a few 8-)

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Tumulishroomaroom
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Post by Tumulishroomaroom » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:55 am

Just have one sitting on the master permanently but it is indeed very good for that purpose.

goldi
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Post by goldi » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:40 pm

I can’t get the MSCL to pop (as in slam) like gods box lollipop. I love my lollipop but 2 of those instead of a diminutive mscl seems like a lot of real estate dedicated to compression :hmm:

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spilthyfred
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Post by spilthyfred » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:02 pm

goldi wrote:I can’t get the MSCL to pop (as in slam) like gods box lollipop. I love my lollipop but 2 of those instead of a diminutive mscl seems like a lot of real estate dedicated to compression :hmm:
Oh damn! I totally forgot about the Lollipop! I'd really like to try one of those out. Are there any huge differences between the two that really stand out to you?

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Post by goldi » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:01 am

spilthyfred wrote:
goldi wrote:I can’t get the MSCL to pop (as in slam) like gods box lollipop. I love my lollipop but 2 of those instead of a diminutive mscl seems like a lot of real estate dedicated to compression :hmm:
Oh damn! I totally forgot about the Lollipop! I'd really like to try one of those out. Are there any huge differences between the two that really stand out to you?
Lollipop feels like an 1176. It just pumps and breathes. I can’t get the MSCL to do that but it’s a great finishing comp, which is where I have it in my rig.

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PhineasFreak
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Post by PhineasFreak » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:20 pm

spilthyfred wrote:Anyone rocking more than one of these in their system?
i have 2 annd am planning another two - theyre absolutely ideal for techno drum channel compression abuse
https://thomaswulfe.bandcamp.com/
http://www.soundcloud.com/ylem-records/
http://www.soundcloud.com/best-of-ylem/
http://www.soundcloud.com/waxcide/
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Post by Tumulishroomaroom » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:44 pm

PhineasFreak wrote:
spilthyfred wrote:Anyone rocking more than one of these in their system?
i have 2 annd am planning another two - theyre absolutely ideal for techno drum channel compression abuse
Is it good on individual elements / subgroups ? I have mine on the master and really love it, but sometimes I wish I had another compressor earlier in the chain for some Percussive elements.

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Multi Grooves
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Post by Multi Grooves » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:28 pm

Surely outboard starts to make sense?
...but Cynthia, my Daddy never had a heath kit..

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dooj88
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Post by dooj88 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:26 pm

Tumulishroomaroom wrote:
PhineasFreak wrote:
spilthyfred wrote:Anyone rocking more than one of these in their system?
i have 2 annd am planning another two - theyre absolutely ideal for techno drum channel compression abuse
Is it good on individual elements / subgroups ? I have mine on the master and really love it, but sometimes I wish I had another compressor earlier in the chain for some Percussive elements.
hell yea it is. i have the spectrum and piston honda ducking against a kick on this. you can see the MSCL's led changing when it pumps on the very bottom right:

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spilthyfred
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Post by spilthyfred » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:45 pm

PhineasFreak wrote:
spilthyfred wrote:Anyone rocking more than one of these in their system?
i have 2 annd am planning another two - theyre absolutely ideal for techno drum channel compression abuse
I knew somebody would be doing this :hyper:

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PhineasFreak
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Post by PhineasFreak » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:30 am

i like the two i been using enough that since i need 5 compressors total, 4hp each, its very hard to choose between 3 more of these or a mix of these and autodynes...
https://thomaswulfe.bandcamp.com/
http://www.soundcloud.com/ylem-records/
http://www.soundcloud.com/best-of-ylem/
http://www.soundcloud.com/waxcide/
http://thomaswulfe.muffwiggler.com/
http://ljunggrenaudio.com/
http://waxcide.bandcamp.com/
Just remember what Phineas would say... "eurorack can get you through times of no money better than money can get you through times of no eurorack". - bkbirge/

uebl
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Post by uebl » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:40 pm

Is the side chain input on the MSCL AC coupled? Or, put differently, could I just send a trigger or gate to it and would it work as expected?

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Post by autopoiesis » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:52 pm

uebl wrote:Is the side chain input on the MSCL AC coupled? Or, put differently, could I just send a trigger or gate to it and would it work as expected?
triggers and gates will make it duck the audio. I do this sometimes with my mine

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Post by uebl » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:05 am

autopoiesis wrote:
uebl wrote:Is the side chain input on the MSCL AC coupled? Or, put differently, could I just send a trigger or gate to it and would it work as expected?
triggers and gates will make it duck the audio. I do this sometimes with my mine
Thanks! :tu:

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spilthyfred
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Post by spilthyfred » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:46 am

PhineasFreak wrote:i like the two i been using enough that since i need 5 compressors total, 4hp each, its very hard to choose between 3 more of these or a mix of these and autodynes...
I haven't tried either yet, but judging by the examples I have seen, I think I like the sound of the MSCL more... 3 more :nana:

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soon_come
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Post by soon_come » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:54 pm

I had two up until recently, and just let one MSCL go used so I could try the Autodyne as well. They’re definitely a bit different (not just because one is stereo and the other is mono)!

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Post by uebl » Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:05 am

soon_come wrote:I had two up until recently, and just let one MSCL go used so I could try the Autodyne as well. They’re definitely a bit different (not just because one is stereo and the other is mono)!
Could you elaborate on their "timbral" differences a bit?

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ggillon
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Re: WMD MSCL stereo compressor

Post by ggillon » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:08 am

So I just got the MSCL and it's a really nice addition in a techno rig and adds a lot to the tracks.

But the lack of manual is a bit annoying to me (same for the Crater) because I need to get some understanding of how my modules work otherwise I get frustrated.

So have some questions that I can't really answer myself based on the module specs only. If anyone could help me with this it would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if these are dumb questions but I'm just starting to learn about compressors and I don't have a full mental image of what they do yet.

- Most explanations I read about compressors are saying that compressors are boosting the quiet parts and attenuating the loud parts of an audio signal. But when they get into the topic of the threshold, everything I read only say that the threshold is the minimum level the signal has to reach before being attenuated. But then, what about the "boosting the quiet parts" a compressor is supposed to do? Am I correct in assuming any part above the threshold is attenuated, and at the same time any part below the signal is boosted, according to the ratio? That it's not just about attenuation? Is the boosting happening every time no attenuation takes place? So compression is heavily depending on the input level, and if the input signal never reaches the threshold, it's not going to be super useful, just boosting the signal all the time?

- MSCL has a threshold switch with 3 ranges; -15dBu, -4dBu, +5dBu (from the site). Now the Comp knob is also affecting the threshold according to description, so how should I understand these 3 ranges? Are they the threshold value when Comp is at noon? Or when Comp is fully CW? Also are they arranged in this exact order? I get the strongest attenuation effect when switch is to the right, which I assume would happen if the Threshold is lowest, and not highest. So what am I missing here?

- Same with the limit switch. The site mentions this order for the values Limit Switch: None, 9dB, 3dB. Do they correspond from the left to right positions of the switch?

- To get an interesting pumping effect without using MSCL in sidechain mode, with just a kick and a bassline for example, what I should aim for is that my kick level is above the threshold (indicated by the red ligt), and this will mean that the compressor is boosting the bassline signal all the time excepted when it's busy attenuating the kick, correct? So if my kick isn't loud enough and doesn't trigger the attenuation, it wouldn't work.

- Finally, Comp knob is supposed to effect makeup gain and threshold (on top of ratio). Is it possible to know a bit more about how? Is turning it CW reducing the threshold and increasing the gain like I imagine it would?


Thanks in advance for sharing your compressor science!

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Re: WMD MSCL stereo compressor

Post by desolationjones » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:10 am

ggillon wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:08 am
Thanks in advance for sharing your compressor science!
It's a tricky compressor for learning the basics because it is a "single knob, soft knee" style compressor which hides many parameters behind a single control.

The basic function of a compressor is to reduce dynamic range by attenuating signals above a threshold. In a classic knob-per-function compressor you would see a controls for "threshold" and "ratio". Below the threshold, no effect. Above the threshold, there is attenuation proportional to the ratio setting. If this ratio is constant about the threshold, it is a "hard knee" compressor. Then there is a setting called "makeup gain" which is just gain applied to the output to make up for the loss of total signal level. THIS is where the "quiet signals get boosted".

The attack and decay settings just apply a slew to the gain control (not makeup gain) so you can preserve loud transients, etc.

A soft knee compressor does not sharply apply the attenuation right at the threshold. Instead it gradually attenuates more as the threshold is approached.

A single knob compressor adjusts both threshold and ratio with a single knob.

I am not certain how this all graphs out for the MSCL's selector switches. I admit to being just as confused as you about the particulars, except to say that the results tend to speak for themselves. Maybe a WMD employee can chime in, or maybe the info is in this thread?

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ggillon
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Re: WMD MSCL stereo compressor

Post by ggillon » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:18 am

desolationjones wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:10 am
ggillon wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:08 am
Thanks in advance for sharing your compressor science!
Then there is a setting called "makeup gain" which is just gain applied to the output to make up for the loss of total signal level. THIS is where the "quiet signals get boosted".
Thank you for the reply!

What you posted is what I read elsewhere regarding compressors, but in the instance of the MSCL, I can see the light being green even when no attenuation (light turning red) takes place and seemingly regardless of the makeup gain, this is why I assumed there was more happening under the hood. Though I'm not 100% sure and I'll have to check tonight if it's really the case or if it's just the light being green by default all the time if no attenuation takes place.

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Re: WMD MSCL stereo compressor

Post by desolationjones » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:26 am

ggillon wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:18 am
desolationjones wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:10 am
ggillon wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:08 am
Thanks in advance for sharing your compressor science!
Then there is a setting called "makeup gain" which is just gain applied to the output to make up for the loss of total signal level. THIS is where the "quiet signals get boosted".
Thank you for the reply!

What you posted is what I read elsewhere regarding compressors, but in the instance of the MSCL, I can see the light being green even when no attenuation (light turning red) takes place and seemingly regardless of the makeup gain, this is why I assumed there was more happening under the hood. Though I'm not 100% sure and I'll have to check tonight if it's really the case or if it's just the light being green by default all the time if no attenuation takes place.
Oh yeah, I forgot that the single knob ALSO automatically controls makeup gain so you don't have to adjust makeup gain manually when the ratio changes.

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ggillon
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Re: WMD MSCL stereo compressor

Post by ggillon » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:40 am

rereading the site I see I missed this: "Threshold switch lets you compress modular level signals as well as lower level sources."
together with this "Threshold Switch: Changes the threshold range Three ranges: -15dBu, -4dBu, +5dBu"

and this



leads me to believe that I'm indeed supposed to leave it to the left or center, and that the values on the site are reversed and it's really +5dBu, -4dBu, -15dBu which explains why I was so confused.

It's starting to make more sense now. I also see I was clearly sending a signal that was way too low into it initially because no attenuation would take place unless switching to the right.

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ggillon
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Re: WMD MSCL stereo compressor

Post by ggillon » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:11 am

OK now after re-checking the video I can clearly see the green light is not always on when there is no attenuation, and regardless of the make up gain, and that with a lower threshold it's less active, so I really think there's more happening here than just attenuation and make up gain. It really looks like there's also some boosting taking place based on the threshold level.

- Below threshold --> Gain added based on difference VS threshold, ratio and limited by limit switch value (no limit, +9dB, +3dB)
- Above threshold --> "classic" compressor behavior, reducing the level based on difference VS threshold and ratio

all the above slewed by the attack and decay knobs



So limit switch to the right would be closer to classic compressor, while to the left there is some dynamic input gain too.


More something like this with everything left of threshold being also limited by the limit switch value
Image

while "standard" compressor is more like this
Image

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Re: WMD MSCL stereo compressor

Post by Funky40 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:03 pm

i have also a hard time to find the ideal switch settings with my MSCL.
.....so is there something reverse on their lettering or not ?


i don´t know, the MSCL feels very tame so far for me.
but then: see my phrase 1........so, i have no clue, hanging in the air a bit. ( i´m not new to compressors )


what switch settings do you guys use ?
lets say as in the video above: VCO in, kick goes into sidechain
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