Winter Modular Eloquencer Sequencer

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Torn n Frayed
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Post by Torn n Frayed » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:49 pm

Multi Grooves wrote:Sold out in black already?!

:hmm: :hmm:
They have them at PC.

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Post by cg_funk » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:18 pm

This one supposedly fixes a couple of the most annoying bugs. I think the module is almost out of the beta-testing stage...

But like I was saying, the module is still 'incomplete'. Features that are not even implemented take up prime space (What the heck does MOD do anyways ???)

I am considering selling mine at this stage, if anyone wants a black elo.

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Post by cg_funk » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:13 am

Has anyone else tried the new firmware/beta for the Eloquencer? I'm calling it a beta, cause it's obviously a beta after installing it and having tons of NEW bugs pop up.

I am having a new issue, I cannot change any CV values while the sequence is running. I have to stop the sequencer to change CV, or CV_probability. So this new update makes it impossible to change anything on the fly as far as I can tell. What kind of feature is this?? It sucks!!

Also. The new way that it syncs to the external clock totally sucks, it's way off beat. I have no clue what the heck the new Nudge feature is, but it doesn't seem to do anything good that I can tell.

I think I may have to revert back to the older firmware, since that at least seemed to work for me, at least if I wasn't clocking it externally. Honestly this is my worst experience with any eurorack module. Every time I try to use this module in a patch it doesn't work right and it's so damn complicated that I feel like I can't tell if it's operator error or just buggy, it's horrible to use a device this way. HOrrible.

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Post by fjoesz » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:16 am

when is the new batch EME comming?
Seems like there are some problems with OS and updating?
not sure if I'm going for it right away then

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peabreu
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Post by peabreu » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:50 am

I am still in the previous OS version and never had any sync problems on External sync....quite good with Live using one CV.OCD interface. Perfect in fact.

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Post by fjoesz » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:14 am

same her, clocking it with cv.ocd. no problem at all

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davidjames
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Post by davidjames » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:25 am

cg_funk wrote:Has anyone else tried the new firmware/beta for the Eloquencer? I'm calling it a beta, cause it's obviously a beta after installing it and having tons of NEW bugs pop up.
I haven’t updated yet but happy to report back here when I do. Have you posted this on the Winter forum on their site? Seems they are pretty responsive there.
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Post by cg_funk » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:10 pm

davidjames wrote:
cg_funk wrote:Has anyone else tried the new firmware/beta for the Eloquencer? I'm calling it a beta, cause it's obviously a beta after installing it and having tons of NEW bugs pop up.
I haven’t updated yet but happy to report back here when I do. Have you posted this on the Winter forum on their site? Seems they are pretty responsive there.
Ok. I just checked on the winter modular forum on their site.
"Yes we found it, it is already solved. We will release a new firmware revision next week." So there's another beta coming soon... I sure wish they would these it first before releasing.

The previous version of the firmware has a **lot of bugs - here's the patchlist for the latest revision

##V1.2 Firmware bugs patched:
- CV output voltage was changing before the gate raised. [sic. CV output now stable before gate raised]
- 'Quick pattern chain' mode: Short pressing inside the chain was breaking the chain in banks B, C and D.
- Incorrect LED behavior when changing bank while in pattern mode
- Duplicate pattern, copy/paste pattern and copy/paste track were not copying the division and repetition amount correctly.
- Encoder direction in track shift mode was incorrect.
- While in 'Step Mode > random' some of the gates were not correctly triggered.
- CV IN 1 and 2 couldn't be simultaneously assigned to CV add or CV Q
- CV IN 1 and 2 couldn't be simultaneously assigned to track shift
- In some cases the CV value was changed at the end of a tie.
- Ties were not being extended correctly in “song mode” or “quick pattern chain mode”
- CV variation probability wasn't working in 'Step mode > rep/x'
- Pattern chains weren’t starting at the first pattern when the ‘master track’ was set to anything different than 'int'
- Pressing stop outside the pattern mode while 'quick pattern chain' was active, caused the LED step buttons to show the pattern information.
- Ratcheting in the first step was getting stacked when the Eloquencer clock was set to external (Tempo:EXT) and the master clock was stopped


Edited: To chill my pissy language down a bit and make the patchlist less ambiguous.
Last edited by cg_funk on Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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atrostor
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Post by atrostor » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:33 pm

It's pretty standard in software development to release a list of bugs that are fixed when an update is released. Most of the applications you use right now likely have some amount of bugs that is not explicitly disclosed to you until you receive a software update. It's a matter of whether those bugs affect the application's day-to-day operation enough that it's unusable to you. This was never the case for me with the Eloquencer but looking at your recent posts in this thread, you seem pretty heated about this so maybe you should just sell it and get it over with.

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Post by cg_funk » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:43 pm

atrostor wrote:It's pretty standard in software development to release a list of bugs that are fixed when an update is released. Most of the applications you use right now likely have some amount of bugs that is not explicitly disclosed to you until you receive a software update. It's a matter of whether those bugs affect the application's day-to-day operation enough that it's unusable to you. This was never the case for me with the Eloquencer but looking at your recent posts in this thread, you seem pretty heated about this so maybe you should just sell it and get it over with.
Yeah, but these bugs: CV output changing before the Gate. and CV cannot be changed while sequencer is running. Those are kinda serious problems... I'm not complaining about some minor little details here.

Also, having paid $600 for a module in it's 5th hardware revision, I expect most of the problems to be sorted out, and not to find totally new bugs appearing in each release.

I also expect the developers to test the release before they release it. It only took me 30 minutes with the latest firmware to run into the new problem with the CV outputs.

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Post by atrostor » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:55 pm

I totally hear you and if those bugs affected my use as much as it did yours, I would have gotten rid of the module by now. With one-person companies like the Eloquencer, it's easy for the developer to get blindsided and break something while fixing another. They probably could have done more extensive beta-testing but it seems like the anticipation towards the MIDI module forced them to rush the release of the corresponding firmware. Luckily, I hadn't been planning on getting the MIDI module and the previous firmware has been working well enough for me so I have the liberty to sit out the first release of the new firmware.

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Post by cg_funk » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:17 pm

atrostor wrote:I totally hear you and if those bugs affected my use as much as it did yours, I would have gotten rid of the module by now. With one-person companies like the Eloquencer, it's easy for the developer to get blindsided and break something while fixing another. They probably could have done more extensive beta-testing but it seems like the anticipation towards the MIDI module forced them to rush the release of the corresponding firmware. Luckily, I hadn't been planning on getting the MIDI module and the previous firmware has been working well enough for me so I have the liberty to sit out the first release of the new firmware.
Exactly! Good point. OK OK. Maybe I can cut him a break for that... But I'd personally rather have no update at all than a rushed mess. Please take the time to get it right. I would be totally happy if this sequencer would just do the basic stuff right.

Yeah this latest update just really pissed me off, mainly because it really got my hopes up and then disappointed. I'm just venting a bit.

I only need to hold out another week for the new patch that'll supposedly fix this. :cloud:

I also cannot bring myself to sell modules, no matter how much they frustrate me at the moment.. I dunno. Somehow I will have to adapt. Eloquencer we are here for the long run. It's gonna be a long love-hate journey for us. ha ha ha

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Post by Multi Grooves » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:12 pm

Has anyone tried v1.3.2?
...but Cynthia, my Daddy never had a heath kit..

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Post by Azarius » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:54 pm

I've installed v.1.3.2 today since I got in the EME. I haven't done a lot of testing, but so far it seems to be pretty good! Timing is tight when clocked externally from Pamela's New Workout. It looks like the CV output is changing in time with the gates (below is a pic where the top channel is a gate from an Eloquencer track and the channel below is the pitch changing).

Image

As far as adjusting CV while a sequence is running, it also seems good to me. I did a super quick video where I adjust the CV of a note and also add a tie to a gate while the sequence is running.

http://youtu.be/ZC3JDO5r9rk

Overall it feels like it's a pretty good update that seems to squash the previous bugs. YMMV but I'm very happy so far. Thanks Winter Modular! 8-)

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Post by cg_funk » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:34 pm

Azarius wrote:I've installed v.1.3.2 today since I got in the EME. I haven't done a lot of testing, but so far it seems to be pretty good! Timing is tight when clocked externally from Pamela's New Workout. It looks like the CV output is changing in time with the gates (below is a pic where the top channel is a gate from an Eloquencer track and the channel below is the pitch changing).

Image

As far as adjusting CV while a sequence is running, it also seems good to me. I did a super quick video where I adjust the CV of a note and also add a tie to a gate while the sequence is running.

http://youtu.be/ZC3JDO5r9rk

Overall it feels like it's a pretty good update that seems to squash the previous bugs. YMMV but I'm very happy so far. Thanks Winter Modular! 8-)
Cool! This is quite helpful. Thanks for posting this!!

Yeah- Apparently the problems arise specifically if you play at low BPM. According to the other forum, at 60bpm or slower. I happened to be using something like 61BPM when the wheel would freeze up.

The newest version indeed fixes the lag between CV and gate. First thing I checked :-)

Regarding clocking, I found there was a significant lag between the incoming clock pulse and when the Eloquencer outputs a gate. It would be even more helpful if you could also show the trace of Pam's Clock too.

I'm also clocking mine with Noise Engineering's Horus Solumn, which sends a square wave rather than trigger pulses. The Eloquencer seems to clock when the signal goes from high to low, rather than low to high.. and I'm not sure if this is normal or what.

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Post by jwise » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:50 pm

Where are you guys finding V1.3.2?

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Post by mopoco » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:14 am


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Post by fjoesz » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:13 pm

my EME is comming and I can't wait to use it. and to get some menu options to the surface. now the me is here I think there's to time to make the elo even better than it allready was. maybe someday we'll have glide. that would be bonkers
going to midi the hell out of it and record some melodies on my external keys
getting auto ties is big for me as well

:bananaguitar:

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Post by davidjames » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:55 pm

cg_funk wrote: Regarding clocking, I found there was a significant lag between the incoming clock pulse and when the Eloquencer outputs a gate. It would be even more helpful if you could also show the trace of Pam's Clock too.

I'm also clocking mine with Noise Engineering's Horus Solumn, which sends a square wave rather than trigger pulses. The Eloquencer seems to clock when the signal goes from high to low, rather than low to high.. and I'm not sure if this is normal or what.
If it is true that Elo clocks on the downslope, then sending a square wave will make everything out of time. You'll want as short a trigger as possible to minimize delay. I bet in the case of Pam's, the gate length is set very low (1% perhaps) which will probably do a good job of keeping Elo in time with other rhythmic elements in the patch. I'd also be concerned with how the Elo resets when using an external reset pulse, as things can go awry because of that as well.

Cooincidentally there is another recent thread on the TINRS Tuesday clocking which does advance on the downslope. This may be of some help.
viewtopic.php?p=3069939#3069939
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Post by c0rpse » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:20 am

Can anyone explain to me why the CV changing before the gates is a bug? How long before the gate are we talking?

It would seem ideal to me to send the CV and not send the gate until the CV has reached it's desired voltage. This type of operation is much better than MOST modern digital eurorack sequencers who send the gate a whole millisecond before the CV is done changing.
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Post by davidjames » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:02 pm

c0rpse wrote:Can anyone explain to me why the CV changing before the gates is a bug? How long before the gate are we talking?

It would seem ideal to me to send the CV and not send the gate until the CV has reached it's desired voltage. This type of operation is much better than MOST modern digital eurorack sequencers who send the gate a whole millisecond before the CV is done changing.
I think the reference to the bug was the other way around. In the older firmware, the gate fired before the CV was settled. That is fixed in the new version.
FS: Bargain Bin updated 8/4, Eloquencer+EME steal, more
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Post by cg_funk » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:09 pm

davidjames wrote:
cg_funk wrote: Regarding clocking, I found there was a significant lag between the incoming clock pulse and when the Eloquencer outputs a gate. It would be even more helpful if you could also show the trace of Pam's Clock too.

I'm also clocking mine with Noise Engineering's Horus Solumn, which sends a square wave rather than trigger pulses. The Eloquencer seems to clock when the signal goes from high to low, rather than low to high.. and I'm not sure if this is normal or what.
If it is true that Elo clocks on the downslope, then sending a square wave will make everything out of time. You'll want as short a trigger as possible to minimize delay. I bet in the case of Pam's, the gate length is set very low (1% perhaps) which will probably do a good job of keeping Elo in time with other rhythmic elements in the patch. I'd also be concerned with how the Elo resets when using an external reset pulse, as things can go awry because of that as well.

Cooincidentally there is another recent thread on the TINRS Tuesday clocking which does advance on the downslope. This may be of some help.
viewtopic.php?p=3069939#3069939
Thanks! Yes, this is exactly what it does. It clocks on the downslope. I think it also then has a few ms lag between the downslope and the outputted trigger. Checked it out on the scope, and I think it explains 90% of my clocking issues.

So, the workaround so far is to clock the Eloquencer with my gate-style clock, and then use the trigger Clock-out from Elo to clock counters/dividers and other sequencers. Simply put, I just have to stick the Eloquencer at the top of the chain and clock everything relative to it. It's not perfect, but I'm making beats again.

Now that I read the thread you posted I'm thinking that another alternative might be to do a logical-inversion of my master clock, and use that to feed the Eloquencer.
davidjames wrote: I think the reference to the bug was the other way around. In the older firmware, the gate fired before the CV was settled. That is fixed in the new version.
Yes, that's also the case. I was having all sorts of trouble trying to put a quantizer after the Eloquencer. And when using a S+H and the gate it outputs, I'd always lock on to the wrong pitch... it was less than ideal. Thankfully the new firmware seems to have solved that.

I hope they really fix the <60BPM limitations soon... every version of the firmware seems to have some major issues with slow tempo, and I'm not sure why that's more difficult, or even makes any difference at all from a computer-based timing perspective.

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Post by enoughframes » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:27 pm

Hi Guys!
Many days since last time I visited the forum. We have been working hard with the EME. We have tried to focus our support efforts on our forum, email support and facebook. No time for more.

We have just released a new Eloquencer/ EME firmware revision (1.3.5)
It is the 3rd revision in a short period of time. Sometimes these things happen, you check everything 100 times, you send the beta to really competent betatesters, but sometimes nobody finds the bug.
This last version solves the things you recently have mentioned in the thread.
External clock unsynced with long pulses (responding to fall not to rise), no possibility to change the CV step value with tempos <60bpm

Additionally we have added a couple of things that some people suggest in the winter forum regarding the new version. Option to enable/disable the TIE record, show the current pattern while being in LIVE REC mode.

Let us know your suggestions, issues, whatever.... (better if you use the previously mentioned channels)

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Post by cg_funk » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:09 pm

enoughframes wrote: We have just released a new Eloquencer/ EME firmware revision (1.3.5)
It is the 3rd revision in a short period of time. Sometimes these things happen, you check everything 100 times, you send the beta to really competent betatesters, but sometimes nobody finds the bug.
This last version solves the things you recently have mentioned in the thread.
External clock unsynced with long pulses (responding to fall not to rise), no possibility to change the CV step value with tempos <60bpm

Additionally we have added a couple of things that some people suggest in the winter forum regarding the new version. Option to enable/disable the TIE record, show the current pattern while being in LIVE REC mode.
YES! Thank you! thank you thank you!

I just installed this. It works. My slow clocking is finally syncing to the rising signal! My CVs are coming out at the right timing! I can sequence pitches again on the fly. :-) Cheer. I think they finally got it right with v1.35.

:party: :bananaguitar:

Website for the update is located here BTW:
https://github.com/enoughframes/ELOQUENCER___UPDATER

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Post by fjoesz » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:40 am

I'm frikkin loving the EME and new firmware

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