Xaoc Jena, Drezno, Lipsk: Leibniz Binary Subsystem update!

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xaoc_tech
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Post by xaoc_tech » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:10 pm

mgscheue wrote: Suppose you have the ribbon cables connected so that Drezno goes into Jena and then back into Drezno in a loopback With link active, that decouples the internal A/D -> D/A connection in Drezno, right?
Actually, there is no "internal" A/D->D/A connection in Drezno. The connection between these two halves is provided only by the ribbon cable. Drezno is shipped with the cable plugged both sides to it, however when you add more Leibniz modules you have to break this loop. The "link" button in Drezno uses the binary data arriving from the ribbon cable as the default inputs to the DAC, however each of the bits can still be replaced from the front panel. By unlinking you just remove the normalization, so that all unused DAC inputs are zero. This allows to use the DAC independently from what happens at the ADC and is further processed.
What happens, then, if you self-patch individual 8-bit outs to ins on the Drezno? Nothing, I imagine?
You just replace the default state of these inputs which results from the normalization. Hence, if "link" is activated you replace the data that arrives through the ribbon cable. In this way, you can bypass any combination of bits from the whole chain of Leibniz processing. For example, you may have bitf 0..5 processed by Jena, but bits 6 and 7 being the original data bits from A/C half of Drezno.
But then, again, with link active, you could take the bit outputs on the Jena and put them into the bit ins on the Drezno, correct? And that would override the ribbon connection for those particular bits? Or you could turn off link and patch the individual bits back into Drezno however you like?
All these combinations are possible.
And a Lipsk could be used to invert bits going into Jena, pre-transformation, or out of Jena, post-transformation, correct? Or both if two Lipsks were used?
Both. There is even a possibility to create digital feedback and build a complex finite state machine by taking bits from Jena outputs and plugging them back to Lipsk which is between Drezno and Jena*.

*note: plugging a bit into Lipsk yields an Exclusivve-OR operation with the corresponding bit arriving through the ribbon cable.

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mgscheue
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Post by mgscheue » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Excellent. That sounds really interesting. Thank you. It’s been quite a while since I had my Drezno out of the rack and I had forgotten the ribbon cable connects the two halves.

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Post by wetlands » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:49 pm

jbrandtp - yeah def checked your case. There’s a few things I like with drez now - Gate Delay is one. Distings wavetable is great too for adding another dimension of warp to an lfo, different from offset and gain.

I’ve struggled a bit to find a switched mult that I like. Maybe a dynamic destiny? The matrix option is a good idea. Though I’m leaning toward getting another drezno and lipsk.

Thanks for all the ideas :deadbanana:

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Post by wetlands » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:59 pm

The manual is very nice, cheers. Excited to extend my trigger vocabulary. From the manual... Sitting here thinking why I’d want a static bank of drum patterns? Then it dawned on me that it allows you to fallback to a known quantity, if things ever get wild during a performance.

Assuming since the banks are on the webs, then they’ll be expanded :mrgreen:

What’s the chance that Jena banks are user programmable?

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Post by Devilwidget » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:56 am

Literally counting the days for this one... Any news on release date?

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Post by wetlands » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:32 pm

So what happens if you put two Lipsks before and after Jena? Invert on way in and out of Jena?

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Post by Devilwidget » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:23 am

Any word on the release date of Jena? I think I read it was coming right after Odessa somewhere...

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Post by xaoc_tech » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:14 am

Devilwidget: Jena is shipping already.

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Post by xaoc_tech » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:27 am

wetlands wrote:So what happens if you put two Lipsks before and after Jena? Invert on way in and out of Jena?
Inverting the bits using Lipsk has different effect, depending on its location in the chain. If you invert the most significant (7) bit using Lipsk after Jena, you vertically exchange upper and lower halves of the waveform produced by Jena. When you flip bit 6 the first 1/4 of the amplitude range will be exchanged with second 1/4, and third 1/4 will be exchanged with fourth 1/4 (all vertically).

However, if you install Lipsk before Jena in the Leibniz chain the effect will be flipping horizontal sections of the waveform. For example, the most significant bit affect the first vs second half of the cycle, while bit 6 flips the first and second quarter of the cycle, as well as third and fourth quarter.

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Post by wetlands » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:35 pm

Ordered Jena today! Nearly pulled the trigger on Lipsk, but reverted. :hihi: Thanks for the explanation, though it's strangely curious... I don't quite understand why the Lipsk inversion should have different effects depending on position. Will explore

Will there be a bank map for Jena, like for Zadar?

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Post by Devilwidget » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:07 pm

Christ, Jena is... weird. It is a fantastic wavefolder, and the sort of wave-mapping (I guess?) thing is great. I got it making some really quite weird, Morton Subotnik noises when I adjusted the Drezno sliders whilst playing a sequence.

Question - would there me a value in having a chain with multiple Jena's in? What would that achieve in terms of the leibniz system?

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Post by xaoc_tech » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:47 pm

Devilwidget wrote:Question - would there me a value in having a chain with multiple Jena's in? What would that achieve in terms of the leibniz system?
While it is technically possible to chain two Jenas, the results may be disappointing. This is similar to feeding the output of one wavefolder to another one. The signal will be folded more times which ultimately yields a very broadband or high frequency wave that is also more noisy because each fold introduces a more steepy dependence on the input value and it also amplifies noise.

If you want to experiment with harsh sounds, consider patching some feedback from the analog output of Drezno (with Jena chained in) to its own input.

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Post by kpreid » Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:53 pm

That reminds me of some questions I thought of:
  • Would it be possible to connect two Jenas in parallel (making two different outputs from a single input, e.g. phase shifted versions of the same wavetable), given a suitable cable?
  • Would a Lipsk with no Drezno on its input work as a purely-digital signal source for a Jena (since 0 XOR x = x), or would the floating inputs be a problem?
  • More generally, what's the pinout and electrical characteristics of the Drezno inter-module interface?

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Post by xaoc_tech » Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:26 pm

kpreid wrote:Would it be possible to connect two Jenas in parallel (making two different outputs from a single input, e.g. phase shifted versions of the same wavetable), given a suitable cable?
Yes
Would a Lipsk with no Drezno on its input work as a purely-digital signal source for a Jena (since 0 XOR x = x), or would the floating inputs be a problem?
Yes, and no problem with floating inputs, there are pull-down resistors installed on each input of Lipsk, so that it can be used are a static controller, eg. for Odessa.
More generally, what's the pinout and electrical characteristics of the Drezno inter-module interface?
The interface is extremely simple: parallel data plus clock, 5V cmos logic levels. The pinout is available upon request from our support. We encourage DIYers to build their own components of the system, it is fun!

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Patch examples

Post by ErnieBall » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:59 am

Just received Drezno and Jena (lipsk coming tomorrow)

Really looking for patch examples with cables in diagram. No idea what Im doing even after watching the videos and demos out there. Need a dummies guide to how to scan and hear the transforms/wavetables of Jena. All Im getting is 8bit toons. Fun to listen to but would be nice to see some patch examples in the manuals or on the forums. I get the theory of logic - just currently have a block on patching for some reason. Sure Im not the only one.

Thanks

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Post by Devilwidget » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:30 am

I found the Jena extremely sensitive to the positions of the Drezno sliders - particularly in waveshaper mode. Make sure you are in the internal oscillator mode (long hold on the main dial and select 'I'), and then feed the input of drezno a square wave from another vco. Play with the Drezno sliders and listen to the output of Drezno. You should get clean, hi-fi waveforms (bank 7 is particularly clean).

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Re: Patch examples

Post by D_Robot » Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:42 pm

ErnieBall wrote:Just received Drezno and Jena (lipsk coming tomorrow)

Really looking for patch examples with cables in diagram. No idea what Im doing even after watching the videos and demos out there. Need a dummies guide to how to scan and hear the transforms/wavetables of Jena. All Im getting is 8bit toons. Fun to listen to but would be nice to see some patch examples in the manuals or on the forums. I get the theory of logic - just currently have a block on patching for some reason. Sure Im not the only one.

Thanks
No patch diagram but...

The Jena manual mentions DX-style phase modulation (scroll about halfway down to escape the maths).

For simple phase modulation using Drezno and Jena, take a sine wave from a suitable osc and feed it into the ADC input. Take a second sine osc feed it through a vca modulated by an envelope and feed it into the phase in on Jena. Take the DAC output and feed it into a vca modulated by an envelope and pass it through some effects on it's way out. Also play around with different pitching for both osc. This gives you in series 2 OP PM synthesis using the Jena wavetables.

If you have suitable oscs with phase input jacks, such as Generate 3, then you can create as many operators as you have oscillators and patch them in series, parallel, feedback and or any other algorithm you want. In my case I use the Assimil8or so theoretically could have up to 9 OPs this way.

However, to simply hear what the Jena banks and wavetables are like patch a sine wave into the ADC input and listen to the DAC output while changing the wave tables in Jena. No more 8bit toons :tu:

Edit: I previously wrote some patch notes on phase modulation with Jena. However, I ballsed it up as I wrote it on my commute home and my old brain ain't what it used to be. Basically I forgot how I patched it up the night before, hope I've got it right this time...so here's take 2 :doh:

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Thanks for replies.

Post by ErnieBall » Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:32 pm

:yay:

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Post by maltemark » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:53 pm

Get tae fuck what I fancy a Jena
Feel free to use my old samplepacks: https://freesound.org/people/altemark/
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Re: Xaoc Jena, Drezno, Lipsk: Leibniz Binary Subsystem update!

Post by ErnieBall » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:42 pm

Been reading papers on Walsh Function synthesis. Would like to see the finer details (including shapes/patterns) of Jena not only D but all the banks. Anyone able to enlighten? TIA

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Re: Xaoc Jena, Drezno, Lipsk: Leibniz Binary Subsystem update!

Post by Devilwidget » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:45 pm

The (online) manual says that the online manual will show a more detailed list of Jena’s banks - am I missing something or does this not seem to exist?

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Re: Xaoc Jena, Drezno, Lipsk: Leibniz Binary Subsystem update!

Post by symplx » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:21 pm

The manual states 'external/internal clocking is selected using setup mode'. How do you get to setup mode? Is this really an option & are there other parameters in setup mode?

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Re: Xaoc Jena, Drezno, Lipsk: Leibniz Binary Subsystem update!

Post by Devilwidget » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:45 pm

I believe clocking is in the manual - a long press on the main encoder.

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Re: Xaoc Jena, Drezno, Lipsk: Leibniz Binary Subsystem update!

Post by TheColdGreySky » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:59 pm

symplx wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:21 pm
The manual states 'external/internal clocking is selected using setup mode'. How do you get to setup mode? Is this really an option & are there other parameters in setup mode?
As stated above and in the manual, long press the red encoder to access the clock settings. You can choose external or internal with either rising or falling edge or completely off. The manual states the application of the clocks in regards to input sources and desired outcomes. I own a full Leibniz system and am awaiting delivery of my second Jena to complete my second Leibniz system. I'm a huge advocate of these modules. Here's a long IGTV video of me scrolling through all of the banks and shapes and creating a slow, dark, ambient drone.

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Re: Xaoc Jena, Drezno, Lipsk: Leibniz Binary Subsystem update!

Post by Devilwidget » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:03 pm

I agree - my (quite small) system is 50% Xaoc... however, I would love to know the exact banks of Jena. I have been experimenting and found some very unexpected things (like using Jena as a sort of fucked up quantizer, and getting a sort of bonkers shepards tone effect). But knowing quite what I am fucking with would be grand.

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