SSF zero point oscilator

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SavageMessiah
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Post by SavageMessiah » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:38 pm

As for Generate 3, thru-zero modulation of basically everything in 12hp sounds awesome so I am for sure getting one.

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Post by BasariStudios » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:20 pm

O Yeah, its about to happen!


[video][/video]
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Re: ZPO vs RUBICON MK2?

Post by BasariStudios » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:21 pm

closedLoop wrote:I wonder if someone has an idea about the differences between the new SSF Zero Point Oscillator and the Intellijel Rubicon 2
Its about to happen.
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Post by BasariStudios » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:24 pm

SavageMessiah wrote:Squish is ultimately just a wavefolder.
I might be mistaken but i think Squish is just an Attenuator for Volume, i don't
think its a WaveFolder but now since i have the Rubicon 2 too i will check.
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Post by SavageMessiah » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:43 pm

Nope, it's a wavefolder, check the manual. The goal of the wavefolding is to attenuate the volume though, you're right about that. I think you can use the trimpot on the back to make it just an attenuator, but the default setting folds a bit.

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Re: ZPO vs RUBICON MK2?

Post by tebs213 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:10 pm

closedLoop wrote:I wonder if someone has an idea about the differences between the new SSF Zero Point Oscillator and the Intellijel Rubicon 2, and even any other thru-zero oscillators. I hadn't really ever looked hard at thru-zero oscillators until I saw a few amazing demo videos for the ZPO posted in this thread, and those made me very interested.

Both the Rubicon and ZPO seem to have a similar level of complexity, with some subtle differences I don't entirely understand. The ZPO is immediately more attractive because of it's size (16hp vs Rubicon's 20hp). The Rubicon's octave switching pot is a huge convenience, and what makes my SSF Spectrum so great to deal with.

Any thoughts about the differences?
I have a number of "vanilla" oscillators, and would like to add a more complex oscillator to my relatively small system.
I own a ZPO and used the Rubicon 2 a bunch at Chuck Levin's back when I was still on the east coast working with them on their modular setup.

First of all, I think analog thru-zero FM is wonderful. So many interesting and organic timbres are possible that feel and sound significantly different than the digital variant and standard FM. It's a range of potential colors and flavors that I think are really worth having in your system, and worth getting into eurorack for in general for anyone serious about sound design and using timbre as a focus in making music.

As far as these two particular variants of analog thru-zero implementation are concerned, the ZPO stands out as particularly unique for a few reasons setting aside the thru-zero. The waveshaping and morphing is very powerful and useful. Also, makes it very powerful as an LFO. The Sync stands out as a unique implementation sounding truly as it's own thing that's very musical. Sounds somewhere between hard and soft, definitely different. And maybe my favorite part of this oscillator is the PWM, it sounds absolutely amazing, and the three modes all sound different, varying greatly depending on waveform, waveshaping, and FM implementation. I find I usually have A set on Square for PWM, B shaping between the sawtooth and inverted sine, and then morphing between the two. I've mostly used it for lead sounds at this point, but it's potential for drones is nuts!

A big stand out to me about the ZPO related to the FM implementation that really sets it apart from any other analog oscillator I've used is how much FM you can throw at it without it turning into mush. You can certainly get insanely aggressive and wonderfully harsh sounds, but the ability to throw audio rate modulation into Linear and Exponential FM, and Zero-Point for AM, all simultaneously with different sound sources, and still be able to get sounds that even verge on pretty out of it, is pretty nuts! Obviously attenuation is key here, but really amazed at the stability of this oscillator. I've mostly used it on lock mode with an external sequencer as well to be more specific in this regard.

And that Zero-Point function is also an obvious difference. I love when designers make choices that make a module or synth really feel like an instrument, and this is one of those kind of choices. It's something that takes a little getting used to (for example, how it functions depending on if FM is being used or not), but I think it makes an awesome hands on way to quickly create sonic variation. It's quite the powerful control.

I could keep going but this is probably plenty to digest! If you can try out both it's worth it and you can't go wrong with either of these two oscillators, but yeah I think the ZPO has a few things that make it stand out from other oscillators I've used just in general. I'm personally going to buy another ZPO when I have the cash.

And definitely make sure to check it out with the Stereo Dipole Filter, the two were clearly designed with each other in mind, and just work amazing together. For one practical example, it's great to have one side of the Dipole as your modulation oscillator if you need it, opening up other filters for other voices or uses. There's just so much flexibility and so many sonic possibilities with feedback between the two being particularly interesting and powerful.

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Re: ZPO vs RUBICON MK2?

Post by NoLegs » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:26 pm

tebs213 wrote:
closedLoop wrote:I wonder if someone has an idea about the differences between the new SSF Zero Point Oscillator and the Intellijel Rubicon 2, and even any other thru-zero oscillators. I hadn't really ever looked hard at thru-zero oscillators until I saw a few amazing demo videos for the ZPO posted in this thread, and those made me very interested.

Both the Rubicon and ZPO seem to have a similar level of complexity, with some subtle differences I don't entirely understand. The ZPO is immediately more attractive because of it's size (16hp vs Rubicon's 20hp). The Rubicon's octave switching pot is a huge convenience, and what makes my SSF Spectrum so great to deal with.

Any thoughts about the differences?
I have a number of "vanilla" oscillators, and would like to add a more complex oscillator to my relatively small system.
I own a ZPO and used the Rubicon 2 a bunch at Chuck Levin's back when I was still on the east coast working with them on their modular setup.

First of all, I think analog thru-zero FM is wonderful. So many interesting and organic timbres are possible that feel and sound significantly different than the digital variant and standard FM. It's a range of potential colors and flavors that I think are really worth having in your system, and worth getting into eurorack for in general for anyone serious about sound design and using timbre as a focus in making music.

As far as these two particular variants of analog thru-zero implementation are concerned, the ZPO stands out as particularly unique for a few reasons setting aside the thru-zero. The waveshaping and morphing is very powerful and useful. Also, makes it very powerful as an LFO. The Sync stands out as a unique implementation sounding truly as it's own thing that's very musical. Sounds somewhere between hard and soft, definitely different. And maybe my favorite part of this oscillator is the PWM, it sounds absolutely amazing, and the three modes all sound different, varying greatly depending on waveform, waveshaping, and FM implementation. I find I usually have A set on Square for PWM, B shaping between the sawtooth and inverted sine, and then morphing between the two. I've mostly used it for lead sounds at this point, but it's potential for drones is nuts!

A big stand out to me about the ZPO related to the FM implementation that really sets it apart from any other analog oscillator I've used is how much FM you can throw at it without it turning into mush. You can certainly get insanely aggressive and wonderfully harsh sounds, but the ability to throw audio rate modulation into Linear and Exponential FM, and Zero-Point for AM, all simultaneously with different sound sources, and still be able to get sounds that even verge on pretty out of it, is pretty nuts! Obviously attenuation is key here, but really amazed at the stability of this oscillator. I've mostly used it on lock mode with an external sequencer as well to be more specific in this regard.

And that Zero-Point function is also an obvious difference. I love when designers make choices that make a module or synth really feel like an instrument, and this is one of those kind of choices. It's something that takes a little getting used to (for example, how it functions depending on if FM is being used or not), but I think it makes an awesome hands on way to quickly create sonic variation. It's quite the powerful control.

I could keep going but this is probably plenty to digest! If you can try out both it's worth it and you can't go wrong with either of these two oscillators, but yeah I think the ZPO has a few things that make it stand out from other oscillators I've used just in general. I'm personally going to buy another ZPO when I have the cash.

And definitely make sure to check it out with the Stereo Dipole Filter, the two were clearly designed with each other in mind, and just work amazing together. For one practical example, it's great to have one side of the Dipole as your modulation oscillator if you need it, opening up other filters for other voices or uses. There's just so much flexibility and so many sonic possibilities with feedback between the two being particularly interesting and powerful.
I've been struggling to put all this into words, but this is exactly how I feel about the ZPO. I honestly feel it's a fantastic oscillator even BEFORE you factor in the thru zero stuff. Great write up.

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Post by NoLegs » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:30 pm

I uploaded this short clip a little while ago and meant to share it here. It's loaded with reverb, but it's just ZPO/Dipole and Cursus Iteritas Percido. The CIP is the lower bass voice, and the ZPO is using an LFO into the Zero Point for a tremolo-like effect.

[video][/video]

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Re: ZPO vs RUBICON MK2?

Post by closedLoop » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:15 pm

tebs213 wrote: And definitely make sure to check it out with the Stereo Dipole Filter, the two were clearly designed with each other in mind, and just work amazing together.
Great thoughts on the two, thanks.

I'm definitely looking at picking both up the ZPO and the Stereo Dipole.

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Post by djd_oz » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:48 am

Looking forward to this module! :guinness:

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Post by MvK » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:46 pm

this thing is awesome! The morphing alone even without modulation is awesome! makes me remember why I got into modular. I'm just at the beginning and had 2 sessions with it. A clean filter is highly recommended.
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Post by MvK » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:30 am

While 16hp might be much for an osc the zpo is still great for small/medium systems. I always use mixers behind multioutput oscs to be able to mix the waveforms for waveshaping. Here you have that inside the osc at your fingertips with morphing and that can be utilized much better than a mixer as a performance tool.

The ZPO replaced my doepfer sine tzvco and while it's unfair to compare them (The Doepfer is really great sounding and cheap) this is giving me so much more stability, detail and control.

I've been able to get a lot out of tz-fm without even exactly understanding the implementation. While I understand the TZ principle I'm not familiar with the new implementation on the ZPO. I'll try to get my head around it tonight. I've had the omega phi2 and the doepfer. The ZPO feels much more like an instrument than the other two. The schippmann did too much behind the panel for my taste, the doepfer was too limited and required too much fiddling in comparison.

Its a great time for analog oscillator junkies like me. ZPO, Generate3 and E300, I think I'll get them all.
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Post by peripatitis » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:55 am

MvK wrote:... The schippmann did too much behind the panel for my taste, ...:
That's interesting could you expand on that comment?

I've only had the omega and played with an early rubikon, which at the time was not much to compare really, but throughout all the demo's I've heard the omega sounds the cleanest, at a blind test thought I choose Cynthia's which probably to this day is the tz to beat (perhaps because of the morphing function as well)
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Post by MvK » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:34 am

peripatitis wrote:
MvK wrote:... The schippmann did too much behind the panel for my taste, ...:
That's interesting could you expand on that comment?
I can't really give you a reason. It's highly personal. I prefer modules that are simple. While of course the zpo can be seen as complex, it's also kind of streamlined partly because of the great UI. I like introducing complexity with the patch, not with single modules. For me its the more versatile approach. Other than that I really can't say more except that it's just a feeling. The sound of the omega was quite genius, as is the ZPOs. I would never say this one is better than the other one, only this one works better insinde my individual live set approach than the other one. I'm not willing to have a studio rack, only max 500hp for my liveset, so the omega had to go.

I was doing a little tzfm with the zpo in my last session and what really blows my mind is that no matter how much modulation you apply to the osc the subosc stays the same. I have no scope but after a bit of wiggling that's the impression. On the one hand this gives you great possibilities not only for mixing the sub with the other waveforms but to sync the modulating osc with the sub out without destroying the FM. Normally I would say that FM is modulating the oscs core from which the sub is generated. If the core is being modulated so must be the sub. maybe I'm missing something. I use linear input for tzfm and to me it sounds like tzfm. A manual explaining the ZPOs implementation would be great.
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Post by BasariStudios » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:40 am

MvK wrote: I use linear input for tzfm and to me it sounds like tzfm. A manual explaining the ZPOs implementation would be great.
Both, Linear and Exponential on the ZPO are Standard and TZ FM.
There is a switch. It is all explained in depth in my video, also it is
Explained in the not completely finished Manual.
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Post by MvK » Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:16 pm

BasariStudios wrote:
MvK wrote: I use linear input for tzfm and to me it sounds like tzfm. A manual explaining the ZPOs implementation would be great.
Both, Linear and Exponential on the ZPO are Standard and TZ FM.
There is a switch. It is all explained in depth in my video, also it is
Explained in the not completely finished Manual.
thanks, of course I've seen the switch and used it. Your post didn't answer the question about the subosc and why it isn't changing while the core is modulated. I think its a great feature but I'd like to understand it better.
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Post by BasariStudios » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:07 pm

The Sub is not affected by FM or Zero Point Control.
Maybe Andrew can explain better...i think it was by choice.
Usually Subs are not really Modulated or on most not at all.
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Post by peripatitis » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:33 am

MvK wrote:
peripatitis wrote:
MvK wrote:... The schippmann did too much behind the panel for my taste, ...:
That's interesting could you expand on that comment?
I can't really give you a reason. It's highly personal. I prefer modules that are simple. While of course the zpo can be seen as complex, it's also kind of streamlined partly because of the great UI. I like introducing complexity with the patch, not with single modules. For me its the more versatile approach. Other than that I really can't say more except that it's just a feeling. The sound of the omega was quite genius, as is the ZPOs. I would never say this one is better than the other one, only this one works better insinde my individual live set approach than the other one. I'm not willing to have a studio rack, only max 500hp for my liveset, so the omega had to go.

I was doing a little tzfm with the zpo in my last session and what really blows my mind is that no matter how much modulation you apply to the osc the subosc stays the same. I have no scope but after a bit of wiggling that's the impression. On the one hand this gives you great possibilities not only for mixing the sub with the other waveforms but to sync the modulating osc with the sub out without destroying the FM. Normally I would say that FM is modulating the oscs core from which the sub is generated. If the core is being modulated so must be the sub. maybe I'm missing something. I use linear input for tzfm and to me it sounds like tzfm. A manual explaining the ZPOs implementation would be great.
Ok I got it, thanks :)

The sub of the omega changes with mod I don't know if that is the normal with those oscillators or not (I don't remember what the rubicon does). But I found it always a nice touch to add along the sin before a filter. I guess both ways have their merits.

Also in the omega you can use the zero cross out for syncing to other oscillators, instead of the sub..
Last edited by peripatitis on Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by analogPedagog » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:01 am

The Sub is not affected by the TZ mode switch. Only standard FM applies to Sub in all cases. This was a design choice to keep it from getting too crazy and to be more musical when mixing the sub osc with the main waveforms.

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Post by MvK » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:00 am

analogPedagog wrote:The Sub is not affected by the TZ mode switch. Only standard FM applies to Sub in all cases. This was a design choice to keep it from getting too crazy and to be more musical when mixing the sub osc with the main waveforms.
thanks a lot for explaining. I didn't know that it was possible to leave the sub unaffected by tzfm, my understanding of how the sub is normally generated might be wrong. Its a great design choice! I use the sub as a sync source for the tzfm-modulator to great effect.
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Post by analogPedagog » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:54 pm

MvK wrote:
analogPedagog wrote:The Sub is not affected by the TZ mode switch. Only standard FM applies to Sub in all cases. This was a design choice to keep it from getting too crazy and to be more musical when mixing the sub osc with the main waveforms.
thanks a lot for explaining. I didn't know that it was possible to leave the sub unaffected by tzfm, my understanding of how the sub is normally generated might be wrong. Its a great design choice! I use the sub as a sync source for the tzfm-modulator to great effect.
Yes, very much all part of the design philosophy of the ZPO where parts of the circuitry are decoupled from the FM all in order to make it more stable, playable and musical.

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Post by joey » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:12 pm

[video][/video]

first sounds with the ZPO!

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Post by djd_oz » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:41 pm

WHOA!!! I just received mine, love how flexible and versatile this oscillator is!

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Post by LunaticSound » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:33 am

I am fucking speechless.

I have just had my first 45 minutes with this baby and I am overwhelmed.

@analogPedagog You did such an amazing job here man. If I ever get the chance, I will kiss your feet, if you like it or not.

Ab so lute ly freaking beautiful. I will make sure to buy at least the Stereo Dipole asap.

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Post by BasariStudios » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:16 am

LunaticSound wrote: I will make sure to buy at least the Stereo Dipole asap.
You don't know what you are in for. Lol
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