Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

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dumbledog
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Post by dumbledog » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:52 pm

bemushroomed wrote:Why is the "ringmod" described as digital? Isn't this module analog?
I don't have one yet* but...

The module is analog, sure, but the pulse waves it outputs (and of course all square or pulse waves) can be thought of as 'digital' in the sense that they're either on or off. the 'ringmod' using the XOR is just an application of the module, which by some weird math trick is equivalent to ring mod for two pulse waves. If I'm not mistaken the Korg MS-20 has a 'digital' ring mod using something similar.

* Perfect Circuit has them for $20 off this weekend so I just got myself a little Christmas present..

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bemushroomed
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Post by bemushroomed » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:18 am

Ah, thanks for the explanation, i'm sure it's that then :)

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joranalogue
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Post by joranalogue » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:12 am

dumbledog wrote:
bemushroomed wrote:Why is the "ringmod" described as digital? Isn't this module analog?
I don't have one yet* but...

The module is analog, sure, but the pulse waves it outputs (and of course all square or pulse waves) can be thought of as 'digital' in the sense that they're either on or off. the 'ringmod' using the XOR is just an application of the module, which by some weird math trick is equivalent to ring mod for two pulse waves. If I'm not mistaken the Korg MS-20 has a 'digital' ring mod using something similar.
Exactly right!

Compare 2 can actually be considered as a kind of analogue-to-digital converter. It contains just analogue window comparators and CMOS digital logic, no microcontroller/software involved, so it's super-fast without any latency.

One unique feature is that while 'ring modding', you're still able to do PWM and octave shifting by modulating the window parameters. DivKid demonstrates this very nicely in his video:
dumbledog wrote:* Perfect Circuit has them for $20 off this weekend so I just got myself a little Christmas present...
Enjoy your C2! Feel free to report back with your first impressions. :mrgreen:
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peripatitis

Post by peripatitis » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:40 am

I am trying to understand this a bit more because i am a bit confused..
So with the shift knob you set the threshold and with the size you set the length/time of the window or is the size just the upper threshold?

In other words does the size parameter react in relation to the input signal or is it indifferent to that?


In any case i am getting the module but i am just wondering :)

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Post by joranalogue » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:10 am

peripatitis wrote:I am trying to understand this a bit more because i am a bit confused..
So with the shift knob you set the threshold and with the size you set the length/time of the window or is the size just the upper threshold?

In other words does the size parameter react in relation to the input signal or is it indifferent to that?


In any case i am getting the module but i am just wondering :)
Each of Compare 2's comparators is a window comparator, so there's two threshold values: a lower and an upper. These are both set using the shift and size parameters: shift determines the centre of the window, and size the distance between the thresholds. The comparator output activates whenever the input signal is inside the window, ie. between the thresholds.

An alternative way to control a window comparator would be to just have knobs to set the lower and higher thresholds directly. But then you could easily set the lower threshold above the upper and the comparator wouldn't work. Half of the knob settings would be useless. So the shift/size method is a lot more 'tweakable'.
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21st Century Analogue Synthesis—Made in Belgium

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peripatitis

Post by peripatitis » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:23 am

joranalogue wrote:
peripatitis wrote:I am trying to understand this a bit more because i am a bit confused..
So with the shift knob you set the threshold and with the size you set the length/time of the window or is the size just the upper threshold?

In other words does the size parameter react in relation to the input signal or is it indifferent to that?


In any case i am getting the module but i am just wondering :)
Each of Compare 2's comparators is a window comparator, so there's two threshold values: a lower and an upper. These are both set using the shift and size parameters: shift determines the centre of the window, and size the distance between the thresholds. The comparator output activates whenever the input signal is inside the window, ie. between the thresholds.

An alternative way to control a window comparator would be to just have knobs to set the lower and higher thresholds directly. But then you could easily set the lower threshold above the upper and the comparator wouldn't work. Half of the knob settings would be useless. So the shift/size method is a lot more 'tweakable'.
Ok cool i think i got it,
So the threshold values would be something like Shift - Size/2 and Shift + Size/2 depending right?

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Post by joranalogue » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:31 pm

peripatitis wrote:Ok cool i think i got it,
So the threshold values would be something like Shift - Size/2 and Shift + Size/2 depending right?
Yup, you've got it!
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Post by joranalogue » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:29 pm

Wow, both Compare 2 and Switch 4 are already out of stock at SchneidersLaden—in less than a week! They're also going fast at Perfect Circuit Audio. Thanks to everyone who got one of my modules!

I'll have more C2 units available by the end of the week. There's still a few at the Joranalogue webstore and Midi Amsterdam.
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Post by jsco » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:03 pm

just snapped one up at perfect circuit myself. this is a brilliant little module!

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dumbledog
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Post by dumbledog » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:07 pm

Mine arrives today! But under the tree it goes.

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joranalogue
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Post by joranalogue » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:01 pm

Still wrapping your head around Compare 2? Little Modular explains how it works, what differentiates it from your more typical comparator, and goes on to demonstrate some great patch ideas:

[video][/video]
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Post by maltemark » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:31 pm

Somehow I feel this with go well with something like the arc neuron or other primitive "weight simulators" pair with slews and/or nonlinear CV generator. ... Or? Thoughts?

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Post by joranalogue » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:55 am

maltemark wrote:Somehow I feel this with go well with something like the arc neuron or other primitive "weight simulators" pair with slews and/or nonlinear CV generator. ... Or? Thoughts?
Yes, C2 also goes great with slew limiters, chaos generators etc. for things like adjustable retriggering or pseudo-random generative control. I've tried to present a broad set of patch ideas in the manual and on YouTube, but there's so much more to be explored. So I'm always curious to see and hear how people use it!

And of course, you can expect some new companion modules for C2 soon... ;)
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Post by maltemark » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:26 am

I should take a gander at the manual then!
Seems like a hp-friendly module for an "modular neuron" sort of thing. Some of the already existing ones are lacking a bit in the CV control department.

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Post by orbita » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:20 am

Is this module like using an A119 envelope generator along with a logic module?

Do you think it would work well as trigger for percussion modules like basimilus iteritas?

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Post by orbita » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:35 am

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Post by joranalogue » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:15 am

orbita wrote:Is this module like using an A119 envelope generator along with a logic module?

Do you think it would work well as trigger for percussion modules like basimilus iteritas?

Not sure, could you give a patch example of what you mean?

C2 is excellent for driving percussion. Check out the YouTube playlist here:
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Buttons ARE toys
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Post by Buttons ARE toys » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:44 pm

Are there ways to patch signals to derive more logic types from the Out and Not jacks? I feel like there are more logic functions hiding in the module but I'm having trouble figuring out how to create them.

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Post by joranalogue » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:31 pm

Buttons ARE toys wrote:Are there ways to patch signals to derive more logic types from the Out and Not jacks? I feel like there are more logic functions hiding in the module but I'm having trouble figuring out how to create them.
Compare 2's logic section already has pretty much the full set of Boolean functions that are available with only two inputs (the inputs being the comparator outputs). The only functions that are 'missing' are the inverted variations on the AND, OR and XOR: NAND, NOR and XNOR. The flip-flop is not considered a Boolean logic function but a sequential one—it's essentially a 1-bit digital memory.

Keep in mind though that on each comparator, you can treat all inputs as gate inputs, turning it into a 3-input logic gate, configurable using the shift and size knobs. This way, the module can become a 6-input, 8-output logic array. See the 'patch ideas' in the user manual for more details.
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Post by Buttons ARE toys » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:20 am

Recorded a demo of using Compare 2 as a phase comparator in a phase locked loop. Very fun! The control oscillator is a filtered sawwave coming from a Digitakt here, and the audible oscillator is Xaoc Belgrad at max resonance. The last 3 quarters is a little techno jam where I get hands on with the different parts of the loop--added notes so you can tell what I'm doing throughout.

https://soundcloud.com/smbols/compare-2-pll-2/s-tRBnr

Basic Patch:

External Oscillator (Filtered Saw from Digitakt) > preamp > Compare 2 in 1

Comapare 2 AND out > SinPhi Miasma in 1 (slew generator)

SinPhi Miasma out 1 > Belgrad V/octave

Belgrad out > monitor
--------------> Compare 2 in 2
----------------------------------------------------

Compare 2 panel settings:
Ch1 Shift full CCW, size 3 o'clock

Ch2 Shift full CW, size full CW

Obviously the amplitude of your signals is super important and will change how you need to set the comparators to get them to produce a stable pitch on your oscillator.

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Post by joranalogue » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:54 am

Buttons ARE toys wrote:Recorded a demo of using Compare 2 as a phase comparator in a phase locked loop. Very fun! The control oscillator is a filtered sawwave coming from a Digitakt here, and the audible oscillator is Xaoc Belgrad at max resonance. The last 3 quarters is a little techno jam where I get hands on with the different parts of the loop--added notes so you can tell what I'm doing throughout.

https://soundcloud.com/smbols/compare-2-pll-2/s-tRBnr

Basic Patch:

External Oscillator (Filtered Saw from Digitakt) > preamp > Compare 2 in 1

Comapare 2 AND out > SinPhi Miasma in 1 (slew generator)

SinPhi Miasma out 1 > Belgrad V/octave

Belgrad out > monitor
--------------> Compare 2 in 2
----------------------------------------------------

Compare 2 panel settings:
Ch1 Shift full CCW, size 3 o'clock

Ch2 Shift full CW, size full CW

Obviously the amplitude of your signals is super important and will change how you need to set the comparators to get them to produce a stable pitch on your oscillator.
Cool stuff, thanks for sharing!
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Post by Triscus » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:25 am

I patched a trigger from an A 160-2 into the C2 but I don't get any outputs. The led changes from blue to red then to blue again, when the trigger fires.

Is there a minimum length for triggers to recognized by the C2?

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Post by joranalogue » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:36 am

Triscus wrote:I patched a trigger from an A 160-2 into the C2 but I don't get any outputs. The led changes from blue to red then to blue again, when the trigger fires.

Is there a minimum length for triggers to recognized by the C2?
The window is set somewhere between the trigger signal's minimum and maximum voltage levels. Increase the window size and/or shift it up.

I'm not sure why you'd want to process a trigger though, unless you're using C2 as a logic module?
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Post by Triscus » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:15 pm

joranalogue wrote:I'm not sure why you'd want to process a trigger though, unless you're using C2 as a logic module?
Thank you for the fast reply. Yes, I want to use the AND output with an LFO patched to the other channel. I found out that the voltage of the trigger is around 11 V, so the threshold could never be reached. I attenuated the trigger signal, now it works.

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Post by joranalogue » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:58 pm

Triscus wrote:
joranalogue wrote:I'm not sure why you'd want to process a trigger though, unless you're using C2 as a logic module?
Thank you for the fast reply. Yes, I want to use the AND output with an LFO patched to the other channel. I found out that the voltage of the trigger is around 11 V, so the threshold could never be reached. I attenuated the trigger signal, now it works.
That makes sense, glad you got it working!
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