Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

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joranalogue
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Post by joranalogue » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:57 am

Another module overview video by the Synth DiY Guy, this time diving deep into Compare 2. Enjoy!

[video][/video]
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Post by mdoudoroff » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:06 pm

So, this is just an experiment, not a piece of music, but I thought it was whacky enough to amuse some of you.

The idea here was to take two basic (triangle) oscillators and slightly detune them to create beating, then mix a copy of that beating signal and run it through Compare 2 to derive a gate pattern, then use that gate pattern to produce notes.

https://soundcloud.com/mdoudoroff/experimental-beating

So, initially what you here is the dry, beating oscillators playing a random melody courtesy of Sapél. Then I fade in the BIA, which is banging out the gate pattern from the comparator. If you’re paying attention, you’ll note that the notes more or less fall on the beating peaks of the two oscillators, and the frequency of the beating is pitch-dependent, so you get more notes out of the BIA as the pitch of the sequence rises. (The BIA gets the same melody.) Then I switch on the effects and bring in a third part, none of which has anything to do with the experiment. Just fooling around.

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Post by joranalogue » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:55 am

mdoudoroff wrote:So, this is just an experiment, not a piece of music, but I thought it was whacky enough to amuse some of you.

The idea here was to take two basic (triangle) oscillators and slightly detune them to create beating, then mix a copy of that beating signal and run it through Compare 2 to derive a gate pattern, then use that gate pattern to produce notes.

https://soundcloud.com/mdoudoroff/experimental-beating

So, initially what you here is the dry, beating oscillators playing a random melody courtesy of Sapél. Then I fade in the BIA, which is banging out the gate pattern from the comparator. If you’re paying attention, you’ll note that the notes more or less fall on the beating peaks of the two oscillators, and the frequency of the beating is pitch-dependent, so you get more notes out of the BIA as the pitch of the sequence rises. (The BIA gets the same melody.) Then I switch on the effects and bring in a third part, none of which has anything to do with the experiment. Just fooling around.
Nice patch, thanks for sharing!
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Post by cptnal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:06 am

I like the idea of experimental beating. Just to see what it's like, you understand. :spank:

Cool idea though. The kind of thing that tickles me greatly. But tickling's another thing altogether.
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Post by BaloErets » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:31 am

mdoudoroff wrote:So, this is just an experiment, not a piece of music, but I thought it was whacky enough to amuse some of you.

The idea here was to take two basic (triangle) oscillators and slightly detune them to create beating, then mix a copy of that beating signal and run it through Compare 2 to derive a gate pattern, then use that gate pattern to produce notes.

http://soundcloud.com/mdoudoroff/experimental-beating

So, initially what you here is the dry, beating oscillators playing a random melody courtesy of Sapél. Then I fade in the BIA, which is banging out the gate pattern from the comparator. If you’re paying attention, you’ll note that the notes more or less fall on the beating peaks of the two oscillators, and the frequency of the beating is pitch-dependent, so you get more notes out of the BIA as the pitch of the sequence rises. (The BIA gets the same melody.) Then I switch on the effects and bring in a third part, none of which has anything to do with the experiment. Just fooling around.
Lovely track! has a bit of a Squarepusher vibe going which is always a good thing :tu:

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Post by Arneb » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:02 am

Does anyone have experience with this thing's precision, is it sufficient to deal with pitch CV at semitone resolution? I'm looking for a solution for a "if note X is played, trigger event Y" patch; the idea would be to set Shift to X (expressed in 1V/oct) and Size to something like 0.02V...

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Post by mdoudoroff » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:25 am

Arneb wrote:Does anyone have experience with this thing's precision, is it sufficient to deal with pitch CV at semitone resolution? I'm looking for a solution for a "if note X is played, trigger event Y" patch; the idea would be to set Shift to X (expressed in 1V/oct) and Size to something like 0.02V...
I just tested for you with a Keystep, and the answer is yes! It takes a moment to dial in the right shift and size, but it’s pretty easy with Joran’s nice tri-color LEDs. You get a nice 5v gate when you nail it. And you only need one half of the Compare 2 to do it—you can use the other half for something else. I don’t know if there’s any drift (instability over time), though.

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Post by Arneb » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:07 am

Great, thanks a lot mdoudoroff! Also, good catch about the LEDs - I had overlooked them and was just wondering how to go about tuning/monitoring, but those should indeed do the trick.

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Post by cloudleft » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:10 am

I like using the compare 2 in feedback patches. Two oscillators run into the two comparators, and the various logic outputs of Compare 2 are sent through a polarising 4x4 matrix mixer. From the mixer, things are then fed back into the EFM or sync inputs of the two oscillators, and also the window CVs on the compare 2. The mixer lets you set the level of feedback and you can invert the logical functions too. Replacing the mixer with VCAs gives you voltage control of the chaos. It's joyful.

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Post by cptnal » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:01 pm

cloudleft wrote:I like using the compare 2 in feedback patches. Two oscillators run into the two comparators, and the various logic outputs of Compare 2 are sent through a polarising 4x4 matrix mixer. From the mixer, things are then fed back into the EFM or sync inputs of the two oscillators, and also the window CVs on the compare 2. The mixer lets you set the level of feedback and you can invert the logical functions too. Replacing the mixer with VCAs gives you voltage control of the chaos. It's joyful.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing that. I'm going to give that a go... :hyper:
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Post by cloudleft » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:18 pm

cptnal wrote: Very interesting! Thanks for sharing that. I'm going to give that a go... :hyper:
Cool, have fun!! I tried to make it like a benjolin sort of. And if the oscillators are running as LFOs, you can make chaotic rhythms/CVs too :)

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Post by MindMachine » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:08 pm

cptnal wrote:
cloudleft wrote:I like using the compare 2 in feedback patches. Two oscillators run into the two comparators, and the various logic outputs of Compare 2 are sent through a polarising 4x4 matrix mixer. From the mixer, things are then fed back into the EFM or sync inputs of the two oscillators, and also the window CVs on the compare 2. The mixer lets you set the level of feedback and you can invert the logical functions too. Replacing the mixer with VCAs gives you voltage control of the chaos. It's joyful.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing that. I'm going to give that a go... :hyper:
Nice. I need to be more open minded like this with Matrix mixing. I have the Doepfer next to a Doepfer VC 4 ch mixer. Will bookmark this.
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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by electricanada » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:34 am

I want to convert a complex audio signal (vocals) into an audio square wave, with the square wave output at the same pitch as the input vocals. I can do that with this module, right? What knob settings do I use?
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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by joranalogue » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:35 am

electricanada wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:34 am
I want to convert a complex audio signal (vocals) into an audio square wave, with the square wave output at the same pitch as the input vocals. I can do that with this module, right? What knob settings do I use?
Yes, I'd use just one of the comparators and start off with both shift and size centred. Adjust to taste from there. Vocal signals tend to be very complex however, so I can't predict if your results will be very useful/meaningful. Some bandpass filtering before C2 might help to get a cleaner waveform.
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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by joranalogue » Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:03 am

In case you're wondering what Compare 2 is all about, check out this review published in the latest edition of Waveform Magazine. You can read it here: https://www.waveformmagazine.com/post/j ... -compare-2

:sb:
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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by esmooov » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:21 am

It turns out that Compare is a melodic contour monster machine. I had been thinking of how, generally, melodic lines move by step and only occasionally by leap and realized that if I get a slow, complex gate & hold pattern coming out of Compare (very easy to do) and then feed that into a slow slew limiter, I can create these really complex, conjunct melodic contours. Whenever the Compare is UP it slews toward the top of my scale and whenever it's down, it slews down. Compare can output such complex patterns that the contour might change direction several times before ever getting to a top or bottom. Mix that with some slow, smooth, attenuated noise to create occasional leaps and feed it all into a quantizer and, suddenly, I'm finding really musical melodies that I can abstractly control through the parameters of Compare. Beautiful stuff.

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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by johannes » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:41 am

would like to hear it.

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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by esmooov » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:45 am

“What about counterpoint,” you say? Just use one of the other Compare outputs, feed it into another slew limiter and you have a related contour. You can even use a max/min patch to get two-part voice leading.

Then as you modulate Compare, the melodies change in regular, related ways. This is exactly why I got into Eurorack.

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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by esmooov » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:45 am

johannes wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:41 am
would like to hear it.
Sure thing! I’ll post a clip after work today!

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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by electricanada » Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:09 pm

esmooov wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:21 am
It turns out that Compare is a melodic contour monster machine. I had been thinking of how, generally, melodic lines move by step and only occasionally by leap and realized that if I get a slow, complex gate & hold pattern coming out of Compare (very easy to do) and then feed that into a slow slew limiter, I can create these really complex, conjunct melodic contours. Whenever the Compare is UP it slews toward the top of my scale and whenever it's down, it slews down. Compare can output such complex patterns that the contour might change direction several times before ever getting to a top or bottom. Mix that with some slow, smooth, attenuated noise to create occasional leaps and feed it all into a quantizer and, suddenly, I'm finding really musical melodies that I can abstractly control through the parameters of Compare. Beautiful stuff.
I’m captivated by your description, but at a loss as to how to implement it.
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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by esmooov » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:37 am

So here's a video that I quickly patched up to demonstrate. It's not the most beautiful melody in the world and I didn't spend too much time on the sound design but I wanted to demonstrate the nice conjunct motion with occasional leaps.



Basically this patch is: two LFO's from Just Friends mixed together in Planar with joystick animation. The resulting LFO is fed into Compare. A third Just Friends LFO is attenuated and then fed into the Compare shift input. This creates a nice, irregular, slow ON-OFF pattern.

This pattern is fed into Maths with rather slow ramp up and ramp down slew. The slew is slow enough that it only rarely reaches the end or beginning of the cycle when the Compare gate opens or closes. This allows the gate to drive the direction UP/DOWN rather than set the voltage HIGH/LOW.

Then, this is mixed in Maths with a rare gate from Pamelas (Euclidean mode, high skip %) that, when on, will cause a leap up. (I should add an inverse as well for a occasional leaps down).

Finally, the Maths output is fed into the Frame input of Frames to play the melody through whatever scale I tuned up. (You could/should do this with a quantizer but I like the wonky quality of hand-tuning the notes).

Finally, Frames' output is fed into the Pittsburgh v/oct with a little animation on its timbre. This is fed into 100 Grit to make it sound like hot garbage, like I enjoy.

The various knobs abstractly control the melody:
- A bigger scale in Compare increases the frequency of 1st / last notes (perhaps your root)
- Faster slew on Maths makes faster melodic lines. You can step animate this to control when runs occur.
- Changes to the LFOs themselves create entirely different melodic structures.

Hope this is at all interesting!

Best,
Erik

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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by mdoudoroff » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:55 am

Good patch idea. I have the necessary modules and will experiment!
esmooov wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:37 am
This is fed into 100 Grit to make it sound like hot garbage, like I enjoy.
Haha! I may need to get one of those.

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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by mdoudoroff » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:11 pm

esmooov, I’ve been playing around with your patch idea, and in some sense I can maybe simplify it, with respect to Compare 2, by using both channels:

If I patch two free running (sine or triangle) LFOs (bipolar) into Compare 2, and set shift and size for both channels to noon, the XOR logic output provides a pretty good gate pattern to run through a channel of MATHS (or the slew of your choice) for a “walking” bass melody.

Image

In the DATA photo, channels 1 and 2 are the LFOs, channel 4 is are the XOR gates from Compare 2, and channel 3 is the slewed version of those XOR gates after running them through Maths.

The closer in size the respective windows are to each other, the more the melody CV will trend toward zero (the two LFOs will tend to be in both or neither window, so fewer XOR gates); the more different in size the respective windows are to each other, the more the melody will trend up (one LFO will be in the window more and the other less, so more XOR gates). With both around noon, it seems the melody CV will stay mostly around the first octave, with sporadic excursion up into the second or third octave.

The rest of your observations still apply. Meanwhile, the AND, OR, and FF outputs on Compare 2 can be used for other purposes.

All that said, I’m finding it a little unintuitive to control expressively.

Here’s a sample:


The relevant part is the bass line melody. My quantizer (Sinfonion) is throwing off the chords for me. Toward the end, I tweak the Size parameters and it gets a little out of control (and goes too high to stay in tune with the sloppy way I set up this patch).
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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by esmooov » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:42 pm

mdoudoroff,

What an elegant design you’ve come up with! Very excited to experiment with this more.

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Re: Joranalogue COMPARE 2 - Dual Window Comparator

Post by johannes » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:47 pm

great stuff, guys! looking forward to try this on my own…

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