4ms & Matthias Puech — Tapographic Delay

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mqtthiqs
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Post by mqtthiqs » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:16 pm

wanne wrote::deadbanana:
for me the wet / dry is not working anymore after the update !?
i dont get a dry signal anymore !
wanne this sounds like 99.99% chance user error. Please report back when you figured it out (4ms just PMed you).

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4mspedals
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Post by 4mspedals » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:29 pm

@resynthesize:
In the video you posted, it looks like you're in Sync mode (the red Sync light appears to be on, though it's hard to make out). Changing tapographies while in Sync mode will of course make loud sounds in any firmware version because you're shrinking/stretching the entire set of taps to a fixed clock (each time you change presets). Turn Sync off before changing tapographies will make things much smoothe! Just make sure Morph is turned up a bit, your transitions will be much cleaner. Let us know if that works!
FrogStar wrote:For what it’s worth, I just spent over an hour with the new firmware and a variety of clean sine sound sources. I was very happy with the results. Any noise, pops or clicking I experienced was removed by reducing the level.
Thanks for the report! I'd like to echo this to anyone experiencing distortion in v1.1: The Level knob must be turned down in v1.1 vs where you had it in 1.0. The reason is that in v1.1 the Dry signal is now about as loud as the input signal (in v1.0 it was padded).

If anyone is still hearing distortion then please email us at 4ms right away. 4ms@4mscompany.com.
It's easier to diagnose issues over email. The vast majority of users have reported two thumbs up when upgrading to version 1.1, but if there's anything we can do to improve it we will do so!

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loorenz
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Post by loorenz » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:06 pm

Reinstall again the new firmware, now it works for me 8-)

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wanne
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Post by wanne » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:25 am

mqtthiqs wrote:
wanne wrote::deadbanana:
for me the wet / dry is not working anymore after the update !?
i dont get a dry signal anymore !
wanne this sounds like 99.99% chance user error. Please report back when you figured it out (4ms just PMed you).
it was the Pan-SUM/R that made me gaga :roll:
dry/wet is back :yay:

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SynthEnergy
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Post by SynthEnergy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:42 am

I will play around with this today and create a bunch of my own presets. Please note my earlier comment about deleting all the prior presets was mainly to give me a clean slate and "roll my own" as it were.

If I run into issues with what I'm doing I'll report back.

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SynthEnergy
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Post by SynthEnergy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:13 pm

wanne wrote:
mqtthiqs wrote:
wanne wrote::deadbanana:
for me the wet / dry is not working anymore after the update !?
i dont get a dry signal anymore !
wanne this sounds like 99.99% chance user error. Please report back when you figured it out (4ms just PMed you).
it was the Pan-SUM/R that made me gaga :roll:
dry/wet is back :yay:
I was having the same issue as you were. Will double check my settings.

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4mspedals
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Post by 4mspedals » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:18 pm

SynthEnergy wrote:
wanne wrote:
mqtthiqs wrote:
wanne wrote::deadbanana:
for me the wet / dry is not working anymore after the update !?
i dont get a dry signal anymore !
wanne this sounds like 99.99% chance user error. Please report back when you figured it out (4ms just PMed you).
it was the Pan-SUM/R that made me gaga :roll:
dry/wet is back :yay:
I was having the same issue as you were. Will double check my settings.
Cool, glad you have it working!

In general, if you're using a mono output, then use Audio Out 1. The reason is that if you have PAN mode set to SUM/R then the Audio Out 2 jack will be the "repeat" tap which is just the dry signal delayed by the time of the total tapography. Very useful if you want to use external effects to process the feedback loop but not so interesting if you just want regular Tapographic sounds!

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SynthEnergy
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Post by SynthEnergy » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:25 pm

Had a lot of fun last night sending a warbling marimba from Plonk into Tapographic Delay last night. Best thing I did was delete the factory Tapographies.

The new firmware has a "firm" :sb: from me.

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Kingnimrod
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Post by Kingnimrod » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:10 pm

Never mind
Last edited by Kingnimrod on Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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SynthEnergy
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Post by SynthEnergy » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:20 pm

Kingnimrod wrote:hmm - just noticed something today, seems like a glitch.

When I sync to external clock and either turn the time knob or modulate time, I get a "popping" noise as it transitions between settings.

Going to reinstall firmware and see if it continues. Anyone else?
I'm not hearing that but will be observant in my Tapo musings over the next few days.

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Post by Kingnimrod » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:38 pm

Thanks
Last edited by Kingnimrod on Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mqtthiqs
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Post by mqtthiqs » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:04 am

Kingnimrod, this is expected behavior; let me explain. In Sync mode, the Time knob takes discrete values (time divisions/multiplications): the change from one value to the next is sudden and there is no value in between. So logically you will get a sudden change in the output, because the read head suddenly jumps to a new position, unrelated to the previous one.

Some delays, like the DLD, use rapid crossfading to reduce this effect: for a short amount of time, they keep two taps in the delay: the old location, fading out, and the new location, fading in. For this short amount of time there is therefore twice the amount of work to do; that's fine for the DLD, but the Tapo potentially has 32 taps to add up, which leaves no CPU cycles for doing double the work. During development I had the dilemma of either halving the available taps to 16 and to leave room for these transition crossfades, or keep the 32 taps, and have these "discontinuities" happening only in Sync mode (which are not exactly clicks btw, but have a certain character to them). I preferred the second option because to me, that's what makes the Tapo special, not the synced delay aspect. Does that make sense?

Now, for everyone: reinstalling the firmware a second time after a successful install will never have any effect (except a psychological one). If a firmware update went ok (no red lights until the end of the .wav file, module restarts after that) then you have the new firmware, period.

And finally: bug report is really best handled through email at 4ms@4mscompany.com. You will get faster response, and we'll be happier to avoid crowd effects ("I just updated and now my cat is eating all my patch cables -- Same thing here with my turtle! I hope they fix it soon"). For the moment there has been one actual bug reported, and fixed in v1.1 (loud swoosh when engaging Sync).

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Post by Kingnimrod » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:07 am

Thanks for that. Will know to avoid modulating time in sync mode, or at least quickly like that.

I’ve removed my posts/ will take down video to help avoid more problems. Don’t want to be throwing red herrings in the way of potential real bugs.

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SynthEnergy
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Post by SynthEnergy » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:59 am

I have to admit I was close to selling this thing because I just didn't get it. After version 1.1 and this awesome thread I've been finding this module unique in my rack. I have other delays, both in guitar pedal form and Magneto as well. None of them can do what this thing does.

A true sound designer module indeed.

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Post by Cortega » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:46 am

loorenz wrote:
Cortega wrote:all the preset sounds a bit different due to new Gainstaging i think, and sadly not in a good way, and morphing through the presets gets more clicks then before the update, thinking of downgrading
Same problem here… is there a way to download the 1.0 firmware wave file ?
I can't find it.
EDIT : SOLVED


I regret my fast posting, all you have to do is turn the Input Level down :doh:

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lisa
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Post by lisa » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:02 am

I'm aching for for one of these. With the latest update it seems to be more or less perfect and such fun. Hmhmm. :hmm:
909, manic trilling courtesy of Make Noise René and DPO, wavetable bass by Disting and some soft melodies by the Korg Minilogue. I mainly sat and watched it all unfold. :eek:


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Post by resynthesize » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:44 am

4mspedals wrote:@resynthesize:
In the video you posted, it looks like you're in Sync mode (the red Sync light appears to be on, though it's hard to make out). Changing tapographies while in Sync mode will of course make loud sounds in any firmware version because you're shrinking/stretching the entire set of taps to a fixed clock (each time you change presets). Turn Sync off before changing tapographies will make things much smoothe! Just make sure Morph is turned up a bit, your transitions will be much cleaner. Let us know if that works!
You are right! Haven't had any issues since I last posted. And with 1.1, I've found it is easier to leave external sync off and quantize taps while they're being recorded. This is such a fun module.

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lisa
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Post by lisa » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:54 am

Has anyone used this for something other than ambient? I’d love to hear it! :hyper:

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Post by Superaction80 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:29 pm

lisa wrote:Has anyone used this for something other than ambient? I’d love to hear it! :hyper:
Really considering a Tapo purchase later in the year. I do some stuff that's basically techno and I'm interested in how easy it is to set up a stupid-basic dotted eighth note delay, or something like it. Which I guess falls under the heading of "something other than ambient." So I would also like to hear folks' experiences outside that genre.

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Post by lisa » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:14 pm

I guess delays are for ambient only. :hmm:

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Post by FrogStar » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:45 am

While it’s much easier to get “in time” taps with then firmware, I don’t know how I’d enter a dotted eighth. Generally I do non-ambient delays with a divided clock into the clock input. This will quantize my taps to the clock division. It’s pretty good for less spacey music. But I don’t know how to divide a clock down to the dotted eighth.

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mqtthiqs
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Post by mqtthiqs » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:46 am

FrogStar wrote:But I don’t know how to divide a clock down to the dotted eighth.
My music theory is a bit rusty, but to get dotted clocks in general you have to multiply your main clock by 3 and divide the resulting clock by either 4 or 8 (the converse works too)
lisa wrote:I guess delays are for ambient only. :hmm:
Naah... Ok I had a go at your challenge :party:
This is my late night attempt at a mille plateaux-style rhythmic track (not my usual style, you can probably tell). The dry sound is heard at the beginning; then I enter a quantized tapography and play with Feedback and envelope decays. Tapo is fed through the Aux bus of a mixer (off camera).

[video][/video]

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Post by lisa » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:38 am

mqtthiqs Nice! I also found another one of your clips that I liked. :tu:
909, manic trilling courtesy of Make Noise René and DPO, wavetable bass by Disting and some soft melodies by the Korg Minilogue. I mainly sat and watched it all unfold. :eek:


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Post by Superaction80 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:52 pm

mqtthiqs wrote:
FrogStar wrote:But I don’t know how to divide a clock down to the dotted eighth.
My music theory is a bit rusty, but to get dotted clocks in general you have to multiply your main clock by 3 and divide the resulting clock by either 4 or 8 (the converse works too)
Generally if your sequencer is outputting one pulse per step on the clock out, you’d just divide by three, providing your drums have a general backbeat feel with kick on—at least—steps 1 and 9 and snare on steps 5 and 13 of a 16 step pattern following the same clock.

A different way of looking at this particular division is groups of three sixteenth notes. Or groupings of three/quarters of a quarter note (which sounds goofy, as 16ths are one quarter of a quarter note, which is one quarter of a whole note which therefore equals 16 16th notes) It flips nicely into syncopation right away. Groups/divisions of 5 and 7 are fun for this too, obv.

If you’re trying to arrive at it from quarter notes (each one of the four kick drums in a “four on the floor” kick drum pattern) would be to multiply by four then divide by three.

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Post by Superaction80 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:12 pm

mqtthiqs wrote:
lisa wrote:I guess delays are for ambient only. :hmm:
Naah... Ok I had a go at your challenge :party:
This is my late night attempt at a mille plateaux-style rhythmic track (not my usual style, you can probably tell). The dry sound is heard at the beginning; then I enter a quantized tapography and play with Feedback and envelope decays. Tapo is fed through the Aux bus of a mixer (off camera).

[video][/video]
Nice clip! And I can see how it’s really easy to set up fun and complex patterns. I guess my question is better phrased thusly: how easy is it to set up a less fun and more simple tap that just repeats every three clocks? Aside from just buying a DLD and a low pass filter and a comb filter and another vca? :)

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