Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

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teamhobson
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Post by teamhobson » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:42 am

Does anyone know when the PHIII will be available for purchase again in UK stores? All retailers seem to be out.

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Post by droningspaghettimonster » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:02 pm

Crimesofthecrown wrote:Really been able to pull some hyper aggressive stuff out of this beast. Possibly the most aggressive sounds I've ever touched on. You can hear a sample here: https://soundcloud.com/danversstatereco ... in-excerpt
Holy shit. Is this factory waves???

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Post by Crimesofthecrown » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:20 am

droningspaghettimonster wrote:
Crimesofthecrown wrote:Really been able to pull some hyper aggressive stuff out of this beast. Possibly the most aggressive sounds I've ever touched on. You can hear a sample here: https://soundcloud.com/danversstatereco ... in-excerpt
Holy shit. Is this factory waves???
Yes it is... :mrgreen:
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Post by droningspaghettimonster » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:55 pm

absolutely stunning. 8-)

i've always regretted letting my loquelic iteritas go and i was planing on getting the updated version sooner than later, but this demo could have made me think otherwise.... those timbres are amazing! do you have more demos that show the harsh / cold side of the module?

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Post by Crimesofthecrown » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:39 am

droningspaghettimonster wrote:absolutely stunning. 8-)

i've always regretted letting my loquelic iteritas go and i was planing on getting the updated version sooner than later, but this demo could have made me think otherwise.... those timbres are amazing! do you have more demos that show the harsh / cold side of the module?
Sadly I currently do not. Once I get settled eventually I want to start doing this however, I feel there could be more and better documentation of using eurorack in aggressive non conventional ways.
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Post by xthrasherx » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:02 am

droningspaghettimonster wrote:absolutely stunning. 8-)

i've always regretted letting my loquelic iteritas go and i was planing on getting the updated version sooner than later, but this demo could have made me think otherwise.... those timbres are amazing! do you have more demos that show the harsh / cold side of the module?
Is there something in particular you are wanting to hear? I sold my LI for the PHIII when it came out and have not had any regrets. the LI is a great oscillator and was my favorite for a long while... until I got the PHIII anyway.
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Post by droningspaghettimonster » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:24 am

hello!

well, the LI really shines in the cold / harsh department, but those timbres in Crimesofthecrowns demo are just exactly what I miss from my LI, but prepared in very beautiful way. I'm particularly interested in hearing how the CV inputs respond to audio rate modulation, both from synced and unsycned VCOs. Anything "harsh" really. :hihi:

edit:

I recall LI being very sensitive to modulation, and just a little could make the sound very "lively" in a unpleasant way, so the sweetspot was kind of all over the place, and some "inbetween" timbres could appear with just a single LFO without proper attenuation. Once the sweetspots were found the LI was absolutely stunning though. Does this ring any bells, and how do you think the PHIII behaves under heavy modulation? Since the wavetables can vary a bit, I guess the modulation might need to be attenuated rather precisely as well, right?

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Post by xthrasherx » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:58 am

droningspaghettimonster wrote:hello!

well, the LI really shines in the cold / harsh department, but those timbres in Crimesofthecrowns demo are just exactly what I miss from my LI, but prepared in very beautiful way. I'm particularly interested in hearing how the CV inputs respond to audio rate modulation, both from synced and unsycned VCOs. Anything "harsh" really. :hihi:

edit:

I recall LI being very sensitive to modulation, and just a little could make the sound very "lively" in a unpleasant way, so the sweetspot was kind of all over the place, and some "inbetween" timbres could appear with just a single LFO without proper attenuation. Once the sweetspots were found the LI was absolutely stunning though. Does this ring any bells, and how do you think the PHIII behaves under heavy modulation? Since the wavetables can vary a bit, I guess the modulation might need to be attenuated rather precisely as well, right?
One of the great design benefits of IME / Harvestman modules are the built in attenuverters on the various CV inputs. It really frees up your system quite a bit. At this point my main case is is predominately Harvestman modules as sound sources.

I'll try post something with the PHIII by itself doing some harshness (I tend to like doing that anyway). Personally I like using the PHIII for drones and using a modulation source like the NLC Triple Sloth to slowly morph the waveforms over time, but that's only one approach.
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Post by droningspaghettimonster » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:28 am

I'm very interested in a demo, I've watched your videos couple of times and they are a joy to view.

Do you got the Hertz Donut mkiii as well? Just wondering which one exels at "harsh" timbres. I've heard some spectacular demos of that VCO as well, and I really prefer the design to the digital complex VCO designs of the older models (nothing wrong with that of course, but my DPO has that covered).

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Post by xthrasherx » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:25 am

droningspaghettimonster wrote:I'm very interested in a demo, I've watched your videos couple of times and they are a joy to view.

Do you got the Hertz Donut mkiii as well? Just wondering which one exels at "harsh" timbres. I've heard some spectacular demos of that VCO as well, and I really prefer the design to the digital complex VCO designs of the older models (nothing wrong with that of course, but my DPO has that covered).
Thanks! I do have the HDIII as well and it is typically on bass duties in my system. I feel like it is a little easier to dial in some harsher distortion with the HDIII without the aid of anything else based on the fundamental design of it, but they are different beasts with some marginal overlap. I'd have a hard time choosing just one, but the HDIII edges out the PHIII for me at this point but only by a narrow margin. Using the PHIII (or II for that matter) for processing external signals is also quite fun, giving you a pretty wide range of uses.

I'll fire up the "studio" when I get back home and come up with a quick demo. Been a while since I focused on just the PHIII, so it'll be fun.
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Post by xthrasherx » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:45 pm

Ok, it’s no Robotopsy tutorial or anything, but here’s a quick and dirty video demo trying to focus on some of the harsher sides of the PHIII.

Other modules used:
Double Andore mkI (as LFO and EG/VCA)
Piston Honda mkII (as LFO)
Hertz Donut mkI (as LFO)
Zorlon Cannon mkII (percussions in final jam)
Voltage Block (as XYZ wavetable Position cv in final jam)

I tried to keep ancillary modules to a minimum, so no filters, no extra distortion courtesy of some more character modules, and the only post processing was running a limiter over the master.

[video][/video]
Last edited by xthrasherx on Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Pighood » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:19 pm

DISGUSTITATING!!!! :love:
*phnert*

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Post by droningspaghettimonster » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:21 pm

Thank you for the demo, it really is lovely! Really goes into the NE territory it seems!

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Post by synonymist » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:52 pm

Sorry to interrupt the harshness. :sadbanana: This example is hard in the other direction.

It is a horn sound made with Piston Honda Mark III with custom waveforms. To me it sounds like a flugelhorn. I love it.

There is a little shaping of timbre by an A-120 filter; but the main character of the sound is from PHIII. Also, thanks to the Piqued app in Ornament and Crime for fantastic amplitude dynamics.

The sections of this piece are basically calm/crazy/calm, reflective of changes to MODE in Just Friends. Session notes are at the track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/after-dark-magus


P.S. - Since newly I am displeased with SoundCloud: until I find an alternative, my tracks there will be few and short-lived.

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Post by sharkminusbear » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:40 am

synonymist wrote:Sorry to interrupt the harshness. :sadbanana: This example is hard in the other direction.

It is a horn sound made with Piston Honda Mark III with custom waveforms. To me it sounds like a flugelhorn. I love it.

There is a little shaping of timbre by an A-120 filter; but the main character of the sound is from PHIII. Also, thanks to the Piqued app in Ornament and Crime for fantastic amplitude dynamics.

The sections of this piece are basically calm/crazy/calm, reflective of changes to MODE in Just Friends. Session notes are at the track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/after-dark-magus


P.S. - Since newly I am displeased with SoundCloud: until I find an alternative, my tracks there will be few and short-lived.
Those horn sounds are crazy! Did you basically use a filter with the waveform to get the right timbre or did you put an envelope on the wavetable cv?

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Post by Leverkusen » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:44 pm

sharkminusbear wrote:
synonymist wrote:Sorry to interrupt the harshness. :sadbanana: This example is hard in the other direction.

It is a horn sound made with Piston Honda Mark III with custom waveforms. To me it sounds like a flugelhorn. I love it.

There is a little shaping of timbre by an A-120 filter; but the main character of the sound is from PHIII. Also, thanks to the Piqued app in Ornament and Crime for fantastic amplitude dynamics.

The sections of this piece are basically calm/crazy/calm, reflective of changes to MODE in Just Friends. Session notes are at the track's webpage:

http://soundcloud.com/synonymist/after-dark-magus

P.S. - Since newly I am displeased with SoundCloud: until I find an alternative, my tracks there will be few and short-lived.
Those horn sounds are crazy! Did you basically use a filter with the waveform to get the right timbre or did you put an envelope on the wavetable cv?
Nice blowing sound - I like the Stetson vibe of this very much! Which is more of a sax though... :yay:

http://soundcloud.com/synonymist/after-dark-magus

http://soundcloud.com/colin-stetson/judges

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Post by synonymist » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:00 pm

sharkminusbear wrote:Those horn sounds are crazy! Did you basically use a filter with the waveform to get the right timbre or did you put an envelope on the wavetable cv?
Belatedly, hello and thanks. Long day still in progress. And then the sad news. :sad:

Onward we who carry the torch, though dark be the night... :|

Yes, it is quite a sound. I say that as a listener, not from immodesty as the maker. As I listened to the piece since posting it, I became more convinced of the importance of the envelope generator's control of the VCA in making the sound credibly brass horn-like.

The voice of a physical brass horn instrument tends to feature a strong correlation between timbre and amplitude. Generalizing, that would be soft and muted vs. loud and brassy.

My thinking is that by finessing the o_C Piqued EG, which allows quite a bit of dynamic control, the range of timbre I was mining, soft and muted breaking on the low edge of brassiness, was given a way to be easily perceived as being credible or natural-sounding. Like a horn player thinking and feeling, then reacting to the music in their playing.

"crazy" is the right descriptor, I agree. I wasn't even going for a horn sound, but went where it led, and so was pleasantly surprised.

Full disclosure: I will admit to being guarded about my sound design concepts and techniques. But here is my little gift to the community, in the spirit of goodwill and in appreciation of the knowledge that others share freely here; this in memory of Mike's legacy:

The architecture of this horn sound is, from the bottom up

⦁ Piston Honda Mark III (PHIII) with custom waveforms

⦁ PHIII osc A as carrier, 1V/Oct by René via O/A/x2 for scaling, with each of Y and Z axes modulated by a different LFO (of which at least one had randomness)

⦁ o_C Piqued EG 1 as ADR (I think), triggered by René Gate-Y, and with its attack modulated by an LFO plus Maths SUM out (which was complex)

⦁ PHIII osc B, fixed pitch, as modulator of PHIII osc A, via VCA 1 modulated by o_C Piqued out 1

⦁ PHIII osc A out into A-120 low pass VCF modulated by PHIII osc B via multed VCA 1 modulated by o_C Piqued out 1

⦁ A-120 low pass VCF via VCA 2 modulated by multed o_C Piqued out 1, out to the final audio mixer.

As I wrote that, it described to me a kind of "modulation layer cake", in which the PHIII osc B audio shaped by the EG/VCA drives PHIII osc A for the "low edge of brassiness" effect, and it drives the VCF for (and here is the key to answering your direct question... finally!) subtly shaping the timbre of PHIII osc A with exactly the same contours of its initial FM of PHIII osc A. Likewise, the EG/VCA shapes each stage of the patch, from the initial FM to the final audio out with exactly the same contours. I believe that those two together give the sound a credible similarity to a physical instrument being played by a human.

Whew!
Last edited by synonymist on Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by synonymist » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:06 pm

Leverkusen wrote:
Nice blowing sound - I like the Stetson vibe of this very much! Which is more of a sax though... :yay:

http://soundcloud.com/synonymist/after-dark-magus

http://soundcloud.com/colin-stetson/judges
Belatedly, thank you for your kind assessment and favorable comparison to Colin Stetson's vibe! My friend introduced me to Stetson's music about eight years ago, but I have scarcely familiarized myself with it since then. Still, I very much admire his work and technique. Guy is a steam train. :)

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Post by mt3 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:47 am

Crimesofthecrown wrote:
droningspaghettimonster wrote:
Crimesofthecrown wrote:Really been able to pull some hyper aggressive stuff out of this beast. Possibly the most aggressive sounds I've ever touched on. You can hear a sample here: https://soundcloud.com/danversstatereco ... in-excerpt
Holy shit. Is this factory waves???
Yes it is... :mrgreen:
Crimesofthecrown the rest of your tracks are also deadly.
:sb:

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Post by Voggg » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:01 pm

I'm a little annoyed at the prospect of having to buy a Pickit3 if I want to update. I bought a Pickit2 for the PH2 and could never get it to work. Ebay prices for 3 range from $10 to $80 and I have no way of knowing if I'm going to get a working unit this time.
Any advice for a reputable place to buy one of these?

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Post by Crimesofthecrown » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:13 pm

mt3 wrote:
Crimesofthecrown wrote:
droningspaghettimonster wrote:
Crimesofthecrown wrote:Really been able to pull some hyper aggressive stuff out of this beast. Possibly the most aggressive sounds I've ever touched on. You can hear a sample here: https://soundcloud.com/danversstatereco ... in-excerpt
Holy shit. Is this factory waves???
Yes it is... :mrgreen:
Crimesofthecrown the rest of your tracks are also deadly.
:sb:
Thank you habibi!!!!!! I'm excited as there's some releases already in the works...plus you should hear what I've been recording as of late...
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Post by xthrasherx » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:26 am

Voggg wrote:I'm a little annoyed at the prospect of having to buy a Pickit3 if I want to update. I bought a Pickit2 for the PH2 and could never get it to work. Ebay prices for 3 range from $10 to $80 and I have no way of knowing if I'm going to get a working unit this time.
Any advice for a reputable place to buy one of these?
This one worked well for me. I had my PHIII on the original firmware for a long time before updating to the current one and didn’t really notice any issues, but now that my system is pretty heavily harvestman based, it was worth grabbing.
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Post by mt3 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:27 pm

Voggg wrote:I'm a little annoyed at the prospect of having to buy a Pickit3 if I want to update. I bought a Pickit2 for the PH2 and could never get it to work. Ebay prices for 3 range from $10 to $80 and I have no way of knowing if I'm going to get a working unit this time.
Any advice for a reputable place to buy one of these?
FYI the PicKit Thread:
viewtopic.php?t=165472

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Post by Voggg » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:58 pm

Thanks for the info!

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Post by Chartreuse-J » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:51 pm

Voggg wrote:I'm a little annoyed at the prospect of having to buy a Pickit3 if I want to update. I bought a Pickit2 for the PH2 and could never get it to work. Ebay prices for 3 range from $10 to $80 and I have no way of knowing if I'm going to get a working unit this time.
Any advice for a reputable place to buy one of these?
The Mark 4 Pickit works fine, found mine on Digikey, Amazon also works. Price is in or around that range.

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