Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

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Nightly Closures
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Post by Nightly Closures » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:16 am

I often get all sorts of useful variations on the tone or character of the sounds by turning that small trim pot. It’s most notable with the first third of travel. After that, it’s just pretty blown out. Tiny increments can make a good bit of change. I find this tzfm really useful at adding variations to the sound and something to bring dynamics to a performance.

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Post by lordymosh » Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:03 pm

Nightly Closures wrote:I often get all sorts of useful variations on the tone or character of the sounds by turning that small trim pot. It’s most notable with the first third of travel. After that, it’s just pretty blown out. Tiny increments can make a good bit of change. I find this tzfm really useful at adding variations to the sound and something to bring dynamics to a performance.
Cool I'll give it a go. I guess I usually go full throttle with it.

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Post by autopoiesis » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:22 pm

besides exercising restraint with that little fm pot, less noisy results for fm can be found by sticking with harmonic intervals between the two oscillators (simplest place to start: link the second oscillator to the pitch of the first with the link button, fine tuning to the second so it's not out of tune with the first, but maybe beating a little, and set them 1 or 2 octaves apart up or down), avoiding the unison-type detune modes (but OCT+, OCT-, +5, and -4 can work well for either carrier or modulator), keeping one of the oscillators (most controllably, the modulator) as a simple sine wave, and sticking with sinusoidal waves for the FM carrier. you might want to load in a new wave bank or two (try the E350/352/370 bank A) because the stock waves don't have too much clean siney material, except for the "lucifer additive" bank (Z2 in the factory set) whose waves do work nicely as FM carriers.

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Post by mt3 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:22 pm

lordymosh wrote:Any tips for FM on the PH mk3? Usually when I turn the FM knob I can't get anything useful musically. I have tried changing the frequency of the modulator etc. Although this is not really a dedicated FM oscillator like the Hertz Donut mk3 is.
Quick Starting Point
1. Turn FM amount knob down to 0 for both Osc A & Osc B.
2. Press LINK.
3. Slowly turn Osc A FM knob up until you get a harmoniously pleasant tone.
4. Send various CV actions to X, Y, & Z axes.
Last edited by mt3 on Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by synonymist » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:34 am

This features a solid, vocal, somewhat cartoonish bass sound made with PH3. Session notes are at the track's webpage:

https://soundcloud.com/synonymist/la-pe ... olly-birds

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Post by mt3 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:05 pm

mt3 wrote:
lordymosh wrote:Any tips for FM on the PH mk3? Usually when I turn the FM knob I can't get anything useful musically. I have tried changing the frequency of the modulator etc. Although this is not really a dedicated FM oscillator like the Hertz Donut mk3 is.
Quick Starting Point
1. Turn FM amount knob down to 0 for both Osc A & Osc B.
2. Press LINK.
3. Slowly turn Osc A FM knob up until you get a harmoniously pleasant tone.
4. Send various CV actions to X, Y, & Z axes.
Extending this for Preset usage....

Quick Starting Point with Presets
1. Turn FM amount knob down to 0 for both Osc A & Osc B.
2. Press LINK.
3. Save this state as Preset 1
4. Slowly turn Osc A FM knob up until you get a harmoniously pleasant tone.
5. Save this state as Preset 2
6. Repeat step 4 for either Osc A or Osc B (or both).
7. Save this state as Preset 3
8. Repeat steps 6 & 7 until all 8 Preset slots are filled.
9. Send various CV actions to X, Y, & Z axes while sending CV to Preset Select

When saving presets, make sure you also set the CV attenuators for each axes as well since these get saved for the presets too.
Rule of thumb: the higher the FM depth, the more attenuated the CV sent to the b]X[/b], Y, & Z axes (if you want to remain somewhat harmonious).

Don't forget to Save All Presets before powering down as well!

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Post by mt3 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:07 pm

autopoiesis wrote:besides exercising restraint with that little fm pot, less noisy results for fm can be found by sticking with harmonic intervals between the two oscillators (simplest place to start: link the second oscillator to the pitch of the first with the link button, fine tuning to the second so it's not out of tune with the first, but maybe beating a little, and set them 1 or 2 octaves apart up or down), avoiding the unison-type detune modes (but OCT+, OCT-, +5, and -4 can work well for either carrier or modulator), keeping one of the oscillators (most controllably, the modulator) as a simple sine wave, and sticking with sinusoidal waves for the FM carrier. you might want to load in a new wave bank or two (try the E350/352/370 bank A) because the stock waves don't have too much clean siney material, except for the "lucifer additive" bank (Z2 in the factory set) whose waves do work nicely as FM carriers.
Everything here as well. I didn't see this post for some reason.

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Post by mt3 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:42 pm

autopoiesis wrote:...sticking with harmonic intervals between the two oscillators (simplest place to start: link the second oscillator to the pitch of the first with the link button,

fine tuning to the second so it's not out of tune with the first, but maybe beating a little,

and set them 1 or 2 octaves apart up or down),

avoiding the unison-type detune modes (but OCT+, OCT-, +5, and -4 can work well for either carrier or modulator)...
I just wanted to point out Argos Bleak is IDEAL for manipulating these parameters.
This is how I use Argos Bleak as a "musical" pseudo-"FM Aid".

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by lordymosh » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:36 am

I seem to be having problems with using cv to move between presets.

I currently have the CV set as CV+Atten for the Preset manager.

I want to use a slow LFO to move between preset 1 and preset 2 and back again. I start with preset 1. When I set the attenuator knob for the cv, it does not move the presets sequentially. Meaning that the LFO causes Preset 1 to move to Preset 7. No matter how much I move the attenuator, I cannot get Preset 1 to move to Preset 2.

Is this a bug? Note I still have 1.1 firmware since I purchased the module in July 2018. Maybe I should update it.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:08 pm

There are known bugs in the preset system - at least in the HDIII.

Though I wonder if you tried to set it to preset 2 and then apply the LFO? If it alternates between 1 and 7 know it might work then for 2 and 1.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by lordymosh » Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:55 am

Leverkusen wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:08 pm
There are known bugs in the preset system - at least in the HDIII.

Though I wonder if you tried to set it to preset 2 and then apply the LFO? If it alternates between 1 and 7 know it might work then for 2 and 1.
Unfortunately it did not work. Which is a shame.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:33 am

I just tried this myself and can confirm that the attenuator adds a negative offset to the preset CV input and when set to a lower value a bipolar LFO becomes fully negative, wich is a bit odd. It then alters between presets 1 and 8. The effect gets less prominent of course with less attenuation but with internal attenuation fully open and external external control over the LFO amount I still have to add a positive offset to get a balanced cycling between presets.

On the other hand expecting a bipolar LFO to cycle between presets 1 and 2 might need to set the preset encoder between 1 and 2 wich is not possible

Though when I take that into account and start with preset 2 I can dial the attenuation so that the same LFO switches between preset 2 and preset 1.

I wonder how it skips preset 8 in your case - are you using a square wave LFO and still don't attenuate it enough?
Last edited by Leverkusen on Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by lordymosh » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:28 am

Leverkusen wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:33 am
I just tried this myself and can confirm that the attenuator adds a negative offset to the preset CV input and when set to a lower value a bipolar LFO becomes fully negative, wich is a bit odd. It then alters between presets 2 and 8. The effect gets less prominent of course with less attenuation but with internal attenuation fully open and external external control about the LFO amount I still have to add a positive offset to get a balanced cycling between presets.

On the other hand expecting a bipolar LFO to cycle between presets 1 and 2 might need to set the preset encoder between 1 and 2 wich is not possible

Though when I take that into account and start with preset 2 I can dial the attenuation so that the same LFO switches between preset 2 and preset 1.

I wonder how it skips preset 8 in your case - are you using a square wave LFO and still don't attenuate it enough?
Yes I'm using a square wave lfo from batumi. Perhaps I have the attenuator set too much. I'll try again. Do you have the preset CV input set as attenuate or offset from the settings menu?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Nightly Closures » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:16 pm

Wouldn’t it be awesome if there were quantizers built into the V/O jacks? They could be set via the menus and have several common scales and user defined scales. I wonder if this is a possible firmware update. It would really be great.

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Re:

Post by everforever » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:38 pm

SavageMessiah wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:58 pm
Has anybody had any pitch tracking issues with PH3? Mine always seems to be sharp at 0v. According to the internal tuner it seems to be pretty dead on for anything above 0v though. It's weird.
Same problem for me, i tried calibrating, but haven´t been able to get it to track below 1v. Its a bit frustrating as i would like to use it as bass voice.
I´m using the five12 sequencer and when i plug it in to the 1/v oct input it offsets a few octaves, i guess this means that its sending negative voltages to play the lower octaves, could this be the problem?

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Re: Re:

Post by p@@@nts » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:37 pm

everforever wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:38 pm
SavageMessiah wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:58 pm
Has anybody had any pitch tracking issues with PH3? Mine always seems to be sharp at 0v. According to the internal tuner it seems to be pretty dead on for anything above 0v though. It's weird.
Same problem for me, i tried calibrating, but haven´t been able to get it to track below 1v. Its a bit frustrating as i would like to use it as bass voice.
I´m using the five12 sequencer and when i plug it in to the 1/v oct input it offsets a few octaves, i guess this means that its sending negative voltages to play the lower octaves, could this be the problem?
Not sure if this is relevant, but my PH2 is off at 0 volts too. Maybe it’s a design limitation on both ph 2 and 3? Whatever the case, it’d be cool if there was a way to fix it— quite annoying...

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by hawkfuzz » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:43 pm

Do you tune after you've plugged in the sequencer? I thought the PH and HD are supposed to be the lowest possible if the pitch knob is all the way down.
THUMPR BC SC

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Sinamsis » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:03 pm

I don't think any IME modules respond to negative voltages at the pitch input. I've not noticed tuning irregularities but I'm not really a stickler. Regarding bass duties, I routinely use both my mk III and mk II for bass without issue. Dropping the module to C0 is pretty useless for audio for me, so even if you have to transpose up an octave for accurate tracking, it should be an issue. With Vector, it's very easy to transpose up and down octaves by holding shift and turning the main encoder IIRC. Take all this with a large grain of salt, because I could just be clueless to the issue. But to me it seems very manageable.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by everforever » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:23 pm

I have the tune knob in the lowest position.

Yes its very easy to transpose on Vector, but if i go down an octave (from the offset the sequencer gives) the tuning gets a bit off, and 2 octaves down its almost a semitone off. I can play the higher octaves just fine.

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