Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

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mt3
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by mt3 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:28 pm



Here's Kermit mk 3 modulating Piston Honda mk 3. A good pairing.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by SavageMessiah » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:45 pm

otnemem wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:04 am
That was exactly it! Thanks for the tip and for saving my sanity :hail:
Ha, that was an off the cuff guess, glad I could help!

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by lordymosh » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:56 pm

mt3 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:28 pm


Here's Kermit mk 3 modulating Piston Honda mk 3. A good pairing.
Looks like I'm getting the new Kermit.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:17 am

i have 2 basic question regarding ph mk3 expandability.

is it possible to use more than 512 wavetables (8 wt-banks a 64 wavetables) on the ph mk3?
multiple micro-sd´s with different set of banks?
512 wt´s might be enough. but iam curious if there is a way…

same goes for the presets. the manual says that we can store 8 presets on the unit,
not on micro-sd´s… so currently there is no way to store more than 8 presets?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by brianobush » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:28 pm

Don't think that is possible. Code is written to handle a specific case, it likely won't change on a whim. That is the good thing about computers.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by mt3 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:46 pm

johannes wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:17 am
is it possible to use more than 512 wavetables (8 wt-banks a 64 wavetables) on the ph mk3?
multiple micro-sd´s with different set of banks?
512 wt´s might be enough. but iam curious if there is a way…
No. 512 is fine from my experience. I've enver felt like needing more.
johannes wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:17 am
same goes for the presets. the manual says that we can store 8 presets on the unit,
not on micro-sd´s… so currently there is no way to store more than 8 presets?
Presets in the IME sense are oriented for live/performance application, not as a way to recall one of the infinite permutations of its state.
It's a different paradigm from what you may be used to. Embrace the paradigm rather than coercing the module to align with your expectations. You will better understand the IME modules if you do.
Even though I would have liked to save presets + wavetable banks together as one, it's better if that type of functionality isn''t available.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:35 am

Thanks for your feedback.
Iam receiving my unit next week and have no ime experience so far. So yes, best is probably to jump right in and see how far i get with what the ph offers.
Iam curious How others use the presets.
to switch/step between presets, blending from one piece/ track / composition to the next? From kyma i like the idea to morph between multiple states/presets within a piece even at audiorate. If you make use a lot of it than it would be nice to have more than 8 presets .
Last edited by johannes on Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Nightly Closures » Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:34 am

I rarely morph through presets. Instead, I use them as different sounds/starting points for different “songs” live. When I do morph presets it’s for longer pieces. I find that there’s enough going on with the X,Y, Z and TZFM that I don’t need to morph presets. I’m really satisfied with this module.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:59 am

great, thanks for the insight.

btw. is it possible to morph between random generated presets without saving them?
when randomizing the current preset it instantly changes the sound, right.
i wonder if it is possible to drift/morph from one randomized preset to the next?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:40 pm

and maybe something more obvious:
how do i scan thru a whole wavetable-bank (64 wavetables) with the phmk3 – from the begining to the end in one go using the the cv ins?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Nightly Closures » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:05 pm

I’ve never set out to do so, but I would imagine you’d calculate your Y cv increment increase/decrease to coincide with a full cycle increase/decrease of your X Cv.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by messiah_ward » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:27 pm

2 ramp LFOs into X&Y, Y exactly half speed of X? Use the attenuverters so that bottom to top of ramp covers all 8 waveforms/banks and no more. Not tried it myself but a quick test with channel 2 of Maths showed me that with the attenuverter on full positive, 0-10V traverses all the way through all 8 waves/banks just over twice, so pretty much any envelope should have enough range to cover an axis once.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:25 am

Thanks for pointing out. So if i understand the xyz layout of the wavetables I will have to start ramping x from min to max with y set to min (0). This plays the the first 8 wts of the bank. When the ramp lfo for axis x wraps from 8 back to 0, y should increase from 0 to 1 (stepped of morphed). ramp again x from min to max than plays wts 9 to 16 and so on... does that make sense?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:43 am

Yes, you need one step in Y after each ramp in X. Ramps on both inputs would shift the Y axes while going through X. It might work though with Y morph disabled, depends on the ramp's amplitude and threshold of Y change a bit.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by mt3 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:54 pm

johannes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:40 pm
and maybe something more obvious:
how do i scan thru a whole wavetable-bank (64 wavetables) with the phmk3 – from the begining to the end in one go using the the cv ins?
Using the Stillson Hammer mk II:
  • set ch I to be an 8 step sequence
  • on CV Out of ch I dial in each step (1-8) to correspond to the X axis step on PHmkIII
  • copy ch I and paste to ch II and ch III of the Stillson Hammer mk II
  • set ch II to /2 and ch III to /4 of the Stillson Hammer mk II
  • connect ch II of the Stillson Hammer mk II to PHmkIII Y axis and ch III of the Stillson Hammer mk II to PHmkIII Z axis

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:57 am

Thanks, but i have no sh mk2. I wish there were a simpler way to dial/scan through a wavetablebank than using 2 lfos or multiple channels of a sequencer. However, this is part of the ph design so will deal with it and see where i get with it.

btw. can someone please comment this:
johannes wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:59 am
is it possible to morph between random generated presets without saving them?
when randomizing the current preset it instantly changes the sound, right.
i wonder if it is possible to drift/morph from one randomized preset to the next?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by klick » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:07 pm

johannes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:40 pm
and maybe something more obvious:
how do i scan thru a whole wavetable-bank (64 wavetables) with the phmk3 – from the begining to the end in one go using the the cv ins?
from the website, I'd tell that the easiest way, is not to deal with several synchronized voltages, but the use the preset manager morph mode :
MORPH MODE

When Morph mode is active, the managed controls are put under full control of the preset. The CV inputs will still respond to external voltages. Select a “base” preset by turning the rotary encoder: its button and menu settings will become the basic setting for the morph. The Morph CV input (and the attenuator/offset knob) will then morph ALL of the managed knob/slider controls from one preset to the next, operating over the entire active memory. For example, while using a Piston Honda Mark III, imagine the three waveform morphing axes setting a point within a “cube” of waveforms. By enabling the morphing presets, you are traveling in a straight line between each of these points, navigating a 3-dimensional timbral pathway using a single control voltage. This is something that would take several channels of programmed control voltages (and much more time) to repeatably recreate without the preset manger.
looks quite neat, receiving mine monday, but really a good thing :sb: :)

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by mt3 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:12 pm

johannes wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:57 am
Thanks, but i have no sh mk2. I wish there were a simpler way to dial/scan through a wavetablebank than using 2 lfos or multiple channels of a sequencer. However, this is part of the ph design so will deal with it and see where i get with it.

btw. can someone please comment this:
johannes wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:59 am
is it possible to morph between random generated presets without saving them?
when randomizing the current preset it instantly changes the sound, right.
i wonder if it is possible to drift/morph from one randomized preset to the next?
Yes to all.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:18 pm

nice!

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:48 am

klick wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:07 pm
johannes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:40 pm
and maybe something more obvious:
how do i scan thru a whole wavetable-bank (64 wavetables) with the phmk3 – from the begining to the end in one go using the the cv ins?
from the website, I'd tell that the easiest way, is not to deal with several synchronized voltages, but the use the preset manager morph mode :
MORPH MODE

When Morph mode is active, the managed controls are put under full control of the preset. The CV inputs will still respond to external voltages. Select a “base” preset by turning the rotary encoder: its button and menu settings will become the basic setting for the morph. The Morph CV input (and the attenuator/offset knob) will then morph ALL of the managed knob/slider controls from one preset to the next, operating over the entire active memory. For example, while using a Piston Honda Mark III, imagine the three waveform morphing axes setting a point within a “cube” of waveforms. By enabling the morphing presets, you are traveling in a straight line between each of these points, navigating a 3-dimensional timbral pathway using a single control voltage. This is something that would take several channels of programmed control voltages (and much more time) to repeatably recreate without the preset manger.
looks quite neat, receiving mine monday, but really a good thing :sb: :)
I am afraid this won't work. Morphing through presets changes all values at once - corresponding to moving all faders at once. Scanning through a whole wavetable can only be done by scanning through the 8 slots of X, then increasing Y by one discrete step and again scanning through all slots of x...
When you slowly morph through Y while scanning through X you would get a different effect. The whole wave file of 64 waveforms is arranged in a two dimensional matrix by truncating it in 8 pieces and stacking them above each other, like a page filled with words. When you read through that page to get the whole story in its original order you have to go through each line and after each line go one discrete step down and start again. Preset morphing can not do that.

Maybe the confusion originates from a difference in design compared to the Morphing Terrarium, where X and Y have the same function as in the Piston Honda but Z can be used to just move through the whole file in its original order. This is not possible on the PH where the 8 banks are arranged in three dimensional cube with Z as the third dimension. It is a different concept. Of course it would be attractive to be able to morph through 64 consecutive waveforms but it is like a totally different mode compared to a multidimensional arrangement of waves. Both are not really compatible and the maths needed to rearrange the single wave forms has to be done externally by the CV programming.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by klick » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:05 am

am afraid this won't work. Morphing through presets changes all values at once - corresponding to moving all faders at once. Scanning through a whole wavetable can only be done by scanning through the 8 slots of X, then increasing Y by one discrete step and again scanning through all slots of x...
damn, indeed, fully missed this.

But, as being a developper myself, I still believe this would be incredibly easy to add, let's try to contact EIM, they may be open to the idea ;)

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:05 am

mt3 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:12 pm
johannes wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:59 am
is it possible to morph between random generated presets without saving them?
when randomizing the current preset it instantly changes the sound, right.
i wonder if it is possible to drift/morph from one randomized preset to the next?

Yes to all.
No, this is not possible. You can only morph through presets that have been saved before. Ramdomizing all parameters can be done manually from the preset menu but will not automatically be saved to a preset or in preset mode with preset input set to trigger random, which would not automatically be saved to a preset either. Also when you use the preset input for triggering random parameter changes you can not use it at the same time to morph through presets.

The desired effect can be partly reached by either saving 8 manually randomized presets and morphing between them or of course by sending random voltages to the three wave form selection inputs. Though you would lose morphing through different/random cross mod, pitch and attenuator settings then. The most randomly morphing sounds can be reached by using both methods, morphing through 8 randomized presets while still sending random CV to the wave selection inputs.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Funky40 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:01 am

interesting points here !
i have a E370 but am still lusting for a PH3.

to have three faders/axis to move thru the wavetables would be a win for me,
giving much more access for "sweetspoting" around "in subtleties", but using three CVs.

But if i had to have just one VCO and i had to choose, would i run for the 64 waves on one axis, plus PM or the distortion on top of that ( E352)
i no longer use the X/Y mode on my E370, funnily.
For sale / reduced prices ( swiss (we are NON-EU)/ in case it makes sense_ EU/WW)(CHF +- = $):
lowered prices: Dotcom Q960: 650.- / Q119: 420 / ( i also have one or much likely two 19" Frames)
ATV A-Frame incl. Accu and Bag: 830.-, like new, quasi unused.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:27 am

Funky40 wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:01 am
interesting points here !
But if i had to have just one VCO and i had to choose, would i run for the 64 waves on one axis, plus PM or the distortion on top of that ( E352)
i no longer use the X/Y mode on my E370, funnily.
Don't forget when comparing the PH and the E352 that if you had to have just one VCO the Piston Honda would not fit your needs because it is two VCO's. The E370 of course is four VCO's then but also in comparison a huge module at a higher price point.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Funky40 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:46 am

i meant one module ;)
E370 is huge, yes !


so far i was under the opinion, that if i had to buy one WT VCO module, or had to vote for one over the other,
would i have voted for the PH3.
....now, this three axis WT thing vs. the option to have all 64 waves on one CV had me thinking.
Respectivly that i no longer use the XY mode. While in fact both would be super useful: 3 axis AND all waves on 1 CV.
probably its the 2 axis mode that is the obsolete one then ;)

But what makes me mainly lust for a PH3 is that the E370 wasn´t giving me the feel of hard switching waves as i knew it from the PH2 whenever i tryed that "interpolation mode off" setting.
Not shure why and if the PH3 would feel different, lets say with the same WT set ?
For sale / reduced prices ( swiss (we are NON-EU)/ in case it makes sense_ EU/WW)(CHF +- = $):
lowered prices: Dotcom Q960: 650.- / Q119: 420 / ( i also have one or much likely two 19" Frames)
ATV A-Frame incl. Accu and Bag: 830.-, like new, quasi unused.

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